I've seen this in a few places... yield signs at normal intersections where stop signs should go.
Here's an example. Normal small 4-way intersection, 2 approaches have yield signs, the other 2 have no signs.
Is this allowed?
STREET VIEW LINK (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.857276,-76.426401,3a,64.6y,149.61h,80.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slIujiOJ77By-vOajkmoa4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I've seen that in many places. It is allowed where stop signs are not needed. Though placing it on all 4 approaches is not allowed (except at roundabouts).
Kentucky converted a stop sign at an intersection in Nicholas County to a yield sign about nine years ago.
https://goo.gl/maps/IO7m2
Traffic on KY 3314 previously had to stop before entering KY 1244, now there is a yield sign. No Street View in the area to show the signage.
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.66306,-122.305704,3a,75y,92.01h,79.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soEfxvOFrHtvr9xVeg1CXFQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
I drive through this every day, and I end up stopping all the time, since I've seen idiots blow the yield sign at 30 MPH.
It's the default four-way intersection treatment in most of Europe. The only surprising thing is that somehow it slipped past all the layers of risk-averse engineers who want to erect a stop sign every time traffic intersects at 90-degree angles.
It's the standard approach here in Europe where major roads have yellow diamond signs (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Sweden_road_sign_B4.svg/200px-Sweden_road_sign_B4.svg.png) indicating the road has priority. For smaller road which usually don't have priority by such signs, drivers are informed with a warning sign
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Sweden_road_sign_A29-1.svg/100px-Sweden_road_sign_A29-1.svg.png)
that they can safely pass and entering/crossing traffic has to yield.
In my opinion it makes traffic flow a lot better and also preserves respect for the stop sign since it used only when there is a clear need for it, and not at every intersection in suburbia. While I saw a lot of these in the US, my medium-sized city had no four-way stop until two years ago when one was installed at a problematic minor intersection.
Yield signs on intersection approaches aren't especially common in NY, particularly if visibility is limited, but there's one here: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.76831,-73.779937,3a,75y,219.28h,80.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sw9VssNL3hT8HTDvdil_SXg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
TxDOT does this in some more rural districts.
Rare in NJ for this type of intersection - primarily just where it's a merge type angle into the main road (and of course at on-ramps and circles/roundabouts). And it should stay that way because yield signs here are regularly ignored.
I immediately thought of this neighborhood in West Lafayette, IN (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.443364,-86.923099,3a,66.8y,75.56h,80.67t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sGssmirRv8EXQm7GeshAfYQ!2e0) which is pretty unique in the area for having yield signs at intersections. The neighborhood on the other side of Northwestern Ave (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.44449,-86.918617,3a,66.8y,-5.95h,83.25t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXKOm3zJiEc8wcARdUa9aDQ!2e0) also has a nonzero number of yield signs, above the average for sure.
Quote from: riiga on July 07, 2015, 07:53:39 PM
While I saw a lot of these in the US, my medium-sized city had no four-way stop until two years ago when one was installed at a problematic minor intersection.
There's a four-way stop outside of North America? Do tell more!
Quote from: jakeroot on July 07, 2015, 10:22:07 PM
There's a four-way stop outside of North America? Do tell more!
Yup, there are a few around but the only one I've seen IRL is the one they built here recently. I have pictures of it on my desktop computer but I won't be able to access that until the weekend. In the meanwhile I found this local street view (http://www.hitta.se/kartan!~58.40613,15.65384,16z/tr!i=fB0yd3PZ/streetview!po=58.40613400:15.65384400!a=5.40128!pi=0.14835). The four-way stop wasn't installed from the start either, there were yield signs put up at first, but I guess in this case the stop is indeed a better solution.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 07, 2015, 09:01:33 PM
Rare in NJ for this type of intersection - primarily just where it's a merge type angle into the main road (and of course at on-ramps and circles/roundabouts). And it should stay that way because yield signs here are regularly ignored.
Once I suggested that there should be a hybrid sign, essentially like a stop sign at which it wasn't compulsory to come to a complete stop. Of course, I was cursed and reviled for proposing such a thing. :rolleyes:
Quote from: jakeroot on July 07, 2015, 10:22:07 PM
There's a four-way stop outside of North America? Do tell more!
To continue on my previous reply: I searched through the national database of regulations and found a total of 90 multi-way (3-way or more) stops and 20 multi-way yields. Sweden isn't as large as the US though, only about the size of California.
Quote from: vdeane on July 07, 2015, 08:35:20 PM
Yield signs on intersection approaches aren't especially common in NY, particularly if visibility is limited, but there's one here: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.76831,-73.779937,3a,75y,219.28h,80.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sw9VssNL3hT8HTDvdil_SXg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 07, 2015, 09:01:33 PM
Rare in NJ for this type of intersection - primarily just where it's a merge type angle into the main road (and of course at on-ramps and circles/roundabouts). And it should stay that way because yield signs here are regularly ignored.
You know where NJ does have a fair amount of yields in what is otherwise a normal T-intersection: At the end of forward jughandles (the ones that you exit the road prior to the traffic light). Examples include https://goo.gl/maps/2u3S4 & https://goo.gl/maps/OlYph
Quote from: riiga on July 08, 2015, 06:33:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 07, 2015, 10:22:07 PM
There's a four-way stop outside of North America? Do tell more!
To continue on my previous reply: I searched through the national database of regulations and found a total of 90 multi-way (3-way or more) stops and 20 multi-way yields. Sweden isn't as large as the US though, only about the size of California.
Very, very interesting. Speaking of California, do the Swedes mainly do California stops (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IWiKYSCiJE)? Or do they take the stop signs seriously?
Quote from: jakeroot on July 08, 2015, 02:25:03 PM
Very, very interesting. Speaking of California, do the Swedes mainly do California stops (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IWiKYSCiJE)? Or do they take the stop signs seriously?
The majority of drivers come to a complete stop, myself included. The remainder slowly roll forward but don't stop. Never seen anyone ignore the stop sign as bad as in that video though. I think the major reason is that we use stop only where necessary and not at every intersection in the suburbs, and also much stricter standards for getting your license. Not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign during your driving test is an instant fail (a friend of mine failed on that).
Quote from: riiga on July 08, 2015, 02:33:50 PM
I think the major reason is that we use stop only where necessary and not at every intersection in the suburbs, and also much stricter standards for getting your license..
This is a very good point. I think America has definitely over-used stop signs, to the point where people don't take them seriously anymore. They've just become a nuisance. I swear half of them exist entirely to calm traffic (which is illegal but seems to be tolerated).
It was common in my neighborhood in the '70s. Later they were replaced by stop signs.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 08, 2015, 09:04:43 AM
You know where NJ does have a fair amount of yields in what is otherwise a normal T-intersection: At the end of forward jughandles (the ones that you exit the road prior to the traffic light). Examples include https://goo.gl/maps/2u3S4 & https://goo.gl/maps/OlYph
I clicked the first link and 'drove' forward across the intersection in Streetview and: Are they already completely renovating that McDonald's again? I remember when they tore down the original one and built the new one. Now I'm feeling old.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 08, 2015, 02:25:03 PM
Quote from: riiga on July 08, 2015, 06:33:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 07, 2015, 10:22:07 PM
There's a four-way stop outside of North America? Do tell more!
To continue on my previous reply: I searched through the national database of regulations and found a total of 90 multi-way (3-way or more) stops and 20 multi-way yields. Sweden isn't as large as the US though, only about the size of California.
Very, very interesting. Speaking of California, do the Swedes mainly do California stops (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IWiKYSCiJE)? Or do they take the stop signs seriously?
Welcome to Chicago. This is what happens when stop signs are abused and misused as speed control devices. People fail to take them seriously at intersections like that in the video. It is especially bad when four-way stops are used at every fucking block (that's eight in a one-mile stretch if you're counting in Chicago).
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 08, 2015, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 08, 2015, 09:04:43 AM
You know where NJ does have a fair amount of yields in what is otherwise a normal T-intersection: At the end of forward jughandles (the ones that you exit the road prior to the traffic light). Examples include https://goo.gl/maps/2u3S4 & https://goo.gl/maps/OlYph
I clicked the first link and 'drove' forward across the intersection in Streetview and: Are they already completely renovating that McDonald's again? I remember when they tore down the original one and built the new one. Now I'm feeling old.
Yep, they renovated that one (again) a few years ago.
More recently, they renovated the McD's a few miles down in Woodbury. In there they increased the work space behind the counter by moving the counter out. But, they didn't move the menu board. I have nearly 20/20 vision, and I can barely read the menu board!
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 09, 2015, 03:40:40 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 08, 2015, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 08, 2015, 09:04:43 AM
You know where NJ does have a fair amount of yields in what is otherwise a normal T-intersection: At the end of forward jughandles (the ones that you exit the road prior to the traffic light). Examples include https://goo.gl/maps/2u3S4 & https://goo.gl/maps/OlYph
I clicked the first link and 'drove' forward across the intersection in Streetview and: Are they already completely renovating that McDonald's again? I remember when they tore down the original one and built the new one. Now I'm feeling old.
Yep, they renovated that one (again) a few years ago.
More recently, they renovated the McD's a few miles down in Woodbury. In there they increased the work space behind the counter by moving the counter out. But, they didn't move the menu board. I have nearly 20/20 vision, and I can barely read the menu board!
If it's the one by the hospital, that's been renovated / rebuilt / sold a couple times over. I'm pretty sure I recall that as a Roy Rogers at one point (in an earlier building), and before that it I believe it was a Geno's. Just doing a Streetview stroll in the area, I can't believe how it's changed - single travel lane in each direction with center turning lane through the downtown, a new light at Hunter Street, bike lanes, crosswalk bumpouts - almost unrecognizable from a road perspective. Looks like I need a "What have they done to my South Jersey roads?" thread...
Quote from: jakeroot on July 07, 2015, 10:22:07 PM
There's a four-way stop outside of North America? Do tell more!
Quote from: riiga on July 08, 2015, 05:43:28 AM
I have pictures of it on my desktop computer but I won't be able to access that until the weekend.
A very rare occurence in Sweden, and the rest of Europe too I would assume. The panel says "Multi-way stop".
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/Foton/P1000576.jpg)
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/Foton/P1000577.jpg)
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/Foton/P1000592.jpg)
Americans:
1) don't respect traffic rules to the same degree Europeans do
2) behave in a more selfish and oblivious manner than Europeans do, behind the wheel or not
3) are quite paranoid about safety, especially around their homes or when children are involved
Because of (1) and (2), it is difficult to get satisfactory results with yield signs in many cases - people either just blow through them, or treat them no differently than stop signs since they are so uncommon that people don't really know how to handle them and compensate by being overcautious.
Because of (3) it is difficult to propose anything short of an all way stop at every corner in residential areas - even though it is ridiculously overcautious to have everyone stopping everywhere, OH MY GOD THERE ARE CHILDREN HERE, so overabundance of caution becomes basic expectation.
The result is that stop signs grow on American streets like weeds, and people tend not to come to a complete stop at them since, in most cases, it isn't actually necessary.
In Ajax, Ontario, I had noticed that this neighbourhood had yield signs as the norm instead of stop signs at t-intersections. I have also noticed that yield signs in general are very prevalent in this municipality, compared to everywhere else in North America.
(https://i.imgur.com/4Mru0B7.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Vx7gsfj.png)
However, it appears that some of them have been removed and replaced with a traditional stop sign. I'm not sure why, but perhaps it might have been someone on the street complaining.
(https://i.imgur.com/tTiJ3at.png)
I find it interesting that Ajax recognizes the frustration stop signs cause, as it states this on its website:
(https://i.imgur.com/06HiOMI.png)
^^ The American MUTCD also says sto signs should not be used as a speed control device.
Yes. Although there is a difference in using the stop sign to make sure that traffic stops, vs. as a traffic control.
Unfortunately, in much of the US, you need a stop sign to actually get people to make a yield. Stop signs are common at perpendicular intersections, whereas yields are more common for slip lanes and on-ramps. Those are designed so that the driver is already pointed in the right direction and is just supposed to merge right in.
The worst abuses seems to be in places where the 4-way stop abounds. If every intersection in your city is a four-way stop, you are not helping anybody. It would be far better to have speed bumps and 2-way stops so that right of way is clear. If people face a stop sign every 500 feet, they simply won't be respected.
The rolling stop is known as the CA stop because there are so many cities in CA where every single intersection is a 4-way stop. Everyone rolls through the stop signs and this creates more problems. Look at this neighborhood in Beverly Hills, surrounded by the major streets of Beverly, Olympic, Doheny, and Wilshire. Every single intersection of local streets is a 4-way stop. It is simply infuriating.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.062225,-118.3939108,3a,75y,262.3h,83.72t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s7S4df06sQ2S0cYjflZdxgg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D7S4df06sQ2S0cYjflZdxgg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D84.23502%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
I'm not sure if this is due to the passive railroad crossing (or even if the YIELD sign is even part of the crossing) but I drove by this intersection this weekend on US 1A in Prospect ME at Muskrat Farm Rd (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.5408528,-68.8618157,3a,75y,262.24h,83.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szwO6sm56gqYLQfBVgsyHBg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Usually in Maine (or mostly anywhere else around the USA), passive crossings or a crossing with gates/lights at this type of (T) intersection usually have a STOP sign at the intersecting part (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9078985,-70.0345136,3a,75y,333.13h,83.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFAJnwRFL18perEbPpZLoKQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). I initially found it strange at first, but the sightlines seem to be very far. Are there other examples like the Prospect example?
Here in Western Australia, the roads authority seems to be on the warpath with stop signs. Stop signs have been removed and replaced with give way (yield) signs where they must not be considered to be warranted. I think we're not as stingy with stop signs as much of Europe is, but it's common to see 2-way give way signs at busy roads with four or more lanes like this (https://goo.gl/maps/Wnzkp9sKWtE2XS3i6) or at intersections with high-speed rural highways like this. (https://goo.gl/maps/taLriXddC9d93dqw5)
This intersection in Fairfax, Virginia, had a yield sign where the stop sign is now (https://goo.gl/maps/v4YxeRz9J5p57vkk7) for approximately 30 years. It was replaced because a resident two houses to the left as you face the intersection (the house opposite the one with the red Saab convertible in the driveway) complained that she felt a yield was unsafe due to kids playing in the street. :rolleyes: Naturally, the stop sign is obeyed about as well as you might expect. Given that the street to both the right and left ends in cul-de-sacs, in some ways it would make more sense for those people to have the yield or stop, but I guess the idea is to slow the traffic coming down the hill behind the Google car's vantage point.
Weirdly enough an intersection right by my house has a yield sign instead of a stop sign, despite the intersection having all around terrible sightlines (it's at the top of a hill and on a curve on all three approaches).
It always annoyed me that we have so many unnecessary stop signs around here, including one on a slip lane at a signalized intersection, and yet this one intersection where you really do need to actually stop gets a yield!
https://goo.gl/maps/ED6RrSadPdofkV9bA
699 Jack Branch Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/DQecQonq7oPbabLY9
That intersection looks risky as hell.
Risky? The sightlines seem good enough to not necessarily warrant a full stop.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on April 13, 2021, 02:35:12 PM
Risky? The sightlines seem good enough to not necessarily warrant a full stop.
Look at all the other intersections. That highway is fairly busy.
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 13, 2021, 03:07:29 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on April 13, 2021, 02:35:12 PM
Risky? The sightlines seem good enough to not necessarily warrant a full stop.
Look at all the other intersections. That highway is fairly busy.
Are you referring to the Jack Branch Rd intersection you posted, or the one posted above by
deathtopumpkins?
"Busy" isn't really the word I would use to describe the highway in the example you posted.
Quote from: jakeroot on April 13, 2021, 03:26:07 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on April 13, 2021, 03:07:29 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on April 13, 2021, 02:35:12 PM
Risky? The sightlines seem good enough to not necessarily warrant a full stop.
Look at all the other intersections. That highway is fairly busy.
Are you referring to the Jack Branch Rd intersection you posted, or the one posted above by deathtopumpkins?
"Busy" isn't really the word I would use to describe the highway in the example you posted.
The one I posted.
And there is more than just that one.