I would like to know all the examples of toll roads that are underutilized.
I know SH 130 in Texas and E-470 in the Denver area have been operating in the red for years. Also, I heard many people in Puerto Rico are shunpiking the PR-66 expressway (preferring the old PR-3 route) due to its high toll cost per mile.
Does anyone have other examples?
Hardy Tollway is one.
According to our member here from Spain (in other threads), most/all Spanish toll roads ("troll roads") are shunpiked.
I would also guess NY 23 and NY 199 (both across the Hudson), although those are both complete guesses from me.
I wonder about all the toll roads in Orlando. I personally avoid them. The non-toll roads around there have very heavy traffic.
Quote from: Brian556 on July 19, 2015, 06:32:34 PM
I wonder about all the toll roads in Orlando. I personally avoid them. The One non-toll road around there have very heavy traffic.
FTFY
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 19, 2015, 06:33:42 PM
Quote from: Brian556 on July 19, 2015, 06:32:34 PM
I wonder about all the toll roads in Orlando. I personally avoid them. The One non-toll road around there have very heavy traffic.
FTFY
Makes me think of Toronto.
From the FDOT traffic count map it looks like the Selmon Expressway doesn't get alot of traffic. I once read an article saying that the I-4/Selmon Connector didn't get as much traffic as expected.
VA-895 (the Pocahontas Pkwy) and SC I-185 (the Southern Connector) have both been in the red since their construction.
Quote from: Thing 342 on July 19, 2015, 07:25:16 PM
VA-895 (the Pocahontas Pkwy) and SC I-185 (the Southern Connector) have both been in the red since their construction.
VA 895 was an idiotic decision to make a tool road rather than a Richmond bypass.
I-185 was simply stupid people trying to build roads.
For PA, the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Act 89 is the cause, and US 22's reconstruction shows that people are starting to use US 22 and US 30 as shunpikes.
People have been shunpiking the PA Turnpike since long before you were born. That's nothing new.
As for other underutilized toll roads, not so much a toll road but a toll bridge: the VA 337 Jordan Bridge in Chesapeake, VA is very underutilized.
Quote from: Brian556 on July 19, 2015, 06:32:34 PM
I wonder about all the toll roads in Orlando. I personally avoid them. The non-toll roads around there have very heavy traffic.
While many people do indeed shunpike the Orlando area toll roads, I don't think they are really underutilized at all. Last time I was there they had a fairly good amount of traffic. SR 408 seems to be the busiest of them all.
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 19, 2015, 06:33:42 PM
Quote from: Brian556 on July 19, 2015, 06:32:34 PM
I wonder about all the toll roads in Orlando. I personally avoid them. The One non-toll road around there have very heavy traffic.
FTFY
He might have been referring to the non-highway alternatives as well. All the roads you can use to get around, for the most part, are just terrible. If its a thru road and its not terrible, they'll usually do something to make it terrible.
Do people use the Atlantic City Expressway a decent amount? Compared to the Parkway and Turnpike in New Jersey, that road gets almost no love.
Quote from: 1 on July 19, 2015, 06:23:09 PMAccording to our member here from Spain (in other threads), most/all Spanish toll roads ("troll roads") are shunpiked.
Only the newer ones. The older ones (those that were built in the 70s) carry a good amount of traffic, but not many trucks.
Quote from: Brian556 on July 19, 2015, 06:32:34 PM
I wonder about all the toll roads in Orlando. I personally avoid them. The non-toll roads around there have very heavy traffic.
The toll roads in Orlando are usually really busy. The 528 and especially the 408 are usually really busy. I'm always surprised I don't see more cars on the 417. The southern portion, south of the 528, is usually pretty deserted. It makes for easy driving.
I've never heard the term shunpiking before. I had to go look it up.
Quote from: Zeffy on July 19, 2015, 11:25:53 PM
Do people use the Atlantic City Expressway a decent amount? Compared to the Parkway and Turnpike in New Jersey, that road gets almost no love.
It's because it's in South Jersey. Nothing in South Jersey gets any love! But, it does get used. A lot. Some people will use 55 to avoid the Expressway when travelling to the shore, but 55 is the best choice to the Cape May County shore locations anyway. And at that point, you're avoiding both Expressway and Parkway tolls. Rts. 30 and 42/322 are parallel to the Expressway and are better options to shunpike if heading towards Atlantic City and points along the Expressway, although both roads have their own traffic issues. 322 is one of the few relatively empty 4 lane roads in NJ and thus you can maintain a fairly consistent, fast speed on that road (minus the traffic lights)...as long as you're driving the 25 miles between Williamstown and Hamilton. Once you enter either town, traffic builds up quickly.
The Expressway several years back built the Exit 41 Cross Keys Rd interchange in Gloucester Twp, in part to help ease congestion on Rt. 42 (which I guess would be the opposite of shunpiking).
Toll stats from April, 2015: http://www.sjta.com/sjta/publish/library/Monthly%20Statistical%20Summary%204-15.pdf You'll notice a drop-off at the Pleasantville Plaza which could be due to the issues with Atlantic City, although the casinos themselves that remain open are actually having a very good year so far.
I think a lot of 40D is probably underutilized in Mexico, but 2 cases really stand out to me. First off to drive from Torreon to Durango is around $30 USD. It only costs around $20 in gas. At the end of the day most Mexicans are not going to pay $30 extra to get somewhere only an hour faster. I know I wouldn't. The second case that really stands out is between Saltillo and Paila. The libre route is only 4 miles longer and there are only a couple of little tiny towns along the route. I know I wouldn't take the toll road in this case and I know of someone who doesn't take it when he goes.
As far as American toll roads go I would say that the Indiana Toll Road is probably underutilized. The state of Indiana was losing money on it and the company that runs it now, declared bankruptcy a few months ago.
Now I've never been to Delaware, so I don't really know, but I feel like it's probably pretty common take US 13 instead of DE 1.
In Oklahoma I always take OK 66 instead of I-44. I don't think that I-44 is underutilized at all, but I'm sure it loses some traffic to Route 66 travelers.
Quote from: US 41 on July 20, 2015, 09:05:41 AM
Now I've never been to Delaware, so I don't really know, but I feel like it's probably pretty common take US 13 instead of DE 1.
For locals and daily commuters that wouldn't be travelling very far on DE 1, that's mostly correct. In fact, when they first built DE 1's northern tolled portion, they put in a ramp to allow people to avoid the toll so they could use US 13 instead. But for people traveling further south, it's easier to take DE 1. There's just too many traffic lights and small towns with low speed limits to bother with US 13.
But I wouldn't say DE 1 is underutilized. You will find congestion on that road nearly every weekend due to beach traffic, and weekday traffic volumes are fairly decent as well.
The majority of the toll roads in Orlando get heavy use; the Beachline, East-West and the Central Florida Greeneway north of the Beachline all usually have heavy usage. The only one I could think of that doesn't would be the John Land Apopka Expressway (SR 414), along with the southern portion of the Greeneway.
I like to think that I-895 in Baltimore has been underutilized since the Fort McHenry Tunnel opened 30 years ago. And the fact that you cannot exit until after you've paid the toll may have been another major factor.
I've never seen much traffic the times I've been on the Mon-Fayette in Pennsylvania.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 08:31:08 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on July 19, 2015, 11:25:53 PM
Do people use the Atlantic City Expressway a decent amount? Compared to the Parkway and Turnpike in New Jersey, that road gets almost no love.
It's because it's in South Jersey. Nothing in South Jersey gets any love! But, it does get used. A lot. Some people will use 55 to avoid the Expressway when travelling to the shore, but 55 is the best choice to the Cape May County shore locations anyway. And at that point, you're avoiding both Expressway and Parkway tolls. Rts. 30 and 42/322 are parallel to the Expressway and are better options to shunpike if heading towards Atlantic City and points along the Expressway, although both roads have their own traffic issues. 322 is one of the few relatively empty 4 lane roads in NJ and thus you can maintain a fairly consistent, fast speed on that road (minus the traffic lights)...as long as you're driving the 25 miles between Williamstown and Hamilton. Once you enter either town, traffic builds up quickly.
The Expressway several years back built the Exit 41 Cross Keys Rd interchange in Gloucester Twp, in part to help ease congestion on Rt. 42 (which I guess would be the opposite of shunpiking).
Toll stats from April, 2015: http://www.sjta.com/sjta/publish/library/Monthly%20Statistical%20Summary%204-15.pdf You'll notice a drop-off at the Pleasantville Plaza which could be due to the issues with Atlantic City, although the casinos themselves that remain open are actually having a very good year so far.
I commute almost the entire length of the ACE on weekdays and it seems quite empty during rush hour. You only get traffic jams during certain times around weekends and holidays during shore traffic season. I also sometimes go swimming during lunch since I work relatively close to Atlantic City (exit 7) and taking 322 is not worth it in that area based on traffic volume and lights.
As for 55, it actually takes the same amount of time to get to the Cape May area beaches from the Philly area using the ACE and the Parkway assuming no traffic (or equal traffic jams) because the southern 20 miles of 55 remain unbuilt and NJ 47, which you have to take instead, is just not built for that kind of volume.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 10:17:09 AM
Quote from: US 41 on July 20, 2015, 09:05:41 AM
Now I've never been to Delaware, so I don't really know, but I feel like it's probably pretty common take US 13 instead of DE 1.
For locals and daily commuters that wouldn't be travelling very far on DE 1, that's mostly correct. In fact, when they first built DE 1's northern tolled portion, they put in a ramp to allow people to avoid the toll so they could use US 13 instead. But for people traveling further south, it's easier to take DE 1. There's just too many traffic lights and small towns with low speed limits to bother with US 13.
But I wouldn't say DE 1 is underutilized. You will find congestion on that road nearly every weekend due to beach traffic, and weekday traffic volumes are fairly decent as well.
I actually drove to Ocean City MD this past Saturday and actually took 13 for most of the way between St Georges and Dover. I hopped back on DE 1 in Dover and instantly regretted it. The traffic was downright awful between Milford and Rehoboth. I still don't know why I didn't hop on 113 as it was perfectly fine. 3 hour drive ended up taking damned near 6 hours with all the backups.
(Side note what was the reasoning behind breaking up the US 13/113 connection in DE and when did they do that?)
Quote from: bzakharin on July 20, 2015, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 08:31:08 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on July 19, 2015, 11:25:53 PM
Do people use the Atlantic City Expressway a decent amount? Compared to the Parkway and Turnpike in New Jersey, that road gets almost no love.
It's because it's in South Jersey. Nothing in South Jersey gets any love! But, it does get used. A lot. Some people will use 55 to avoid the Expressway when travelling to the shore, but 55 is the best choice to the Cape May County shore locations anyway. And at that point, you're avoiding both Expressway and Parkway tolls. Rts. 30 and 42/322 are parallel to the Expressway and are better options to shunpike if heading towards Atlantic City and points along the Expressway, although both roads have their own traffic issues. 322 is one of the few relatively empty 4 lane roads in NJ and thus you can maintain a fairly consistent, fast speed on that road (minus the traffic lights)...as long as you're driving the 25 miles between Williamstown and Hamilton. Once you enter either town, traffic builds up quickly.
The Expressway several years back built the Exit 41 Cross Keys Rd interchange in Gloucester Twp, in part to help ease congestion on Rt. 42 (which I guess would be the opposite of shunpiking).
Toll stats from April, 2015: http://www.sjta.com/sjta/publish/library/Monthly%20Statistical%20Summary%204-15.pdf You'll notice a drop-off at the Pleasantville Plaza which could be due to the issues with Atlantic City, although the casinos themselves that remain open are actually having a very good year so far.
I commute almost the entire length of the ACE on weekdays and it seems quite empty during rush hour. You only get traffic jams during certain times around weekends and holidays during shore traffic season. I also sometimes go swimming during lunch since I work relatively close to Atlantic City (exit 7) and taking 322 is not worth it in that area based on traffic volume and lights.
As for 55, it actually takes the same amount of time to get to the Cape May area beaches from the Philly area using the ACE and the Parkway assuming no traffic (or equal traffic jams) because the southern 20 miles of 55 remain unbuilt and NJ 47, which you have to take instead, is just not built for that kind of volume.
Timewise: Yes, its about the same. But using 55 saves about 8 miles and about $4.50 each direction. Dealing with the single lane roads (47, 347, 83, etc) sucks though.
You will almost never see traffic jams on the AC Expressway during rush hour, but don't associate that with being underutilized!
Quote from: HenryI like to think that I-895 in Baltimore has been underutilized since the Fort McHenry Tunnel opened 30 years ago.
It's not. The I-895 Baltimore Harbor Tunnel averages about 71K vehicles a day. That's 65% more than the Chicago Skyway in your neck of the woods...
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 02:31:01 PMYou will almost never see traffic jams on the AC Expressway during rush hour, but don't associate that with being underutilized!
I would think that's the definition of being underutilized, especially by New Jersey standards.
Quote from: US 41 on July 20, 2015, 09:05:41 AM
As far as American toll roads go I would say that the Indiana Toll Road is probably underutilized. The state of Indiana was losing money on it and the company that runs it now, declared bankruptcy a few months ago.
You're probably right - in 2011, traffic counts were 20,000 vehicles per day at the east end, 36,000 vehicles per day at the west end, albeit with considerable swelling in traffic counts on weekends. It's probably up a bit now, but east of Valparaiso the Toll Road generally has light to moderate traffic levels.
The Toll Road is certainly suffering from underinvestment, at least on the stretch between I-65 and Valparaiso. The massive toll plazas would move far more vehicles if converted to an open road tolling system. The one in Portage, in particular, can have long backups on weekends and holidays.
I can think of another underutilized toll road in Virginia: the Dulles Greenway/Tollway. You can shunpike up to VA 28 rather than using the main lanes. Combined with higher tolls, Virginia's DOT AADT 2012 in Loudoun County only shows VA 267 (pages 12 and 13) getting only 81,000 AADT as the highest east of Sully Road to the Fairfax County Line. The lowest was 14,000 AADT west of Old Ox Road, and gradually increased to 22,000 by Loudoun County Pkwy.
For Fairfax County, this one is a little more outdated, because it is 2010.
VA 267 (pages 34-37) only maxes out in 125,000 AADT, much less than you could see in Washington, DC's metro. This stretch lasts between International Drive and I-66 (though at I-495, traffic thins out at 66,000 AADT). This AADT count saw a decrease from 140,000 AADT. Between the Fairfax County line and Leesburg Pike, there really isn't too much traffic, despite being a good connector for Dulles Airport traffic to I-495 or US 29 (via I-66).
Quote from: froggie on July 20, 2015, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: HenryI like to think that I-895 in Baltimore has been underutilized since the Fort McHenry Tunnel opened 30 years ago.
It's not. The I-895 Baltimore Harbor Tunnel averages about 71K vehicles a day. That's 65% more than the Chicago Skyway in your neck of the woods...
Agreed. And I-895 does suffer from peak-period congestion in spite of the presence of I-95.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the reconstruction of the Canton Viaduct starts (planned for next year), and only leaves three travel lanes open (2 in the peak direction, 1 in non-peak).
Regarding underutilized, the one that is
somewhat underutilized is Md. 695 (signed as I-695) much of which is MdTA [toll] maintained as the approaches to the Francis Scott Key Bridge over the outer Patapsco River (the planning name was Outer Harbor Crossing), including the bridge itself.
2013 AADT was between 29,000 and 30,000, pretty low for a four-lane freeway (in Maryland).
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 21, 2015, 07:46:03 AM
I can think of another underutilized toll road in Virginia: the Dulles Greenway/Tollway. You can shunpike up to VA 28 rather than using the main lanes. Combined with higher tolls, Virginia's DOT AADT 2012 in Loudoun County only shows VA 267 (pages 12 and 13) getting only 81,000 AADT as the highest east of Sully Road to the Fairfax County Line. The lowest was 14,000 AADT west of Old Ox Road, and gradually increased to 22,000 by Loudoun County Pkwy.
For Fairfax County, this one is a little more outdated, because it is 2010.
VA 267 (pages 34-37) only maxes out in 125,000 AADT, much less than you could see in Washington, DC's metro. This stretch lasts between International Drive and I-66 (though at I-495, traffic thins out at 66,000 AADT). This AADT count saw a decrease from 140,000 AADT. Between the Fairfax County line and Leesburg Pike, there really isn't too much traffic, despite being a good connector for Dulles Airport traffic to I-495 or US 29 (via I-66).
Relatively steep increases in tolls on the Dulles Toll Road part of Va. 267 (to fund most of the cost of a Metrorail line to Dulles Airport) probably account for at least some of the decline in traffic on the Toll Road.
The Greenway part of Va. 267 is owned by a private concession, and has even steeper tolls, and does not provide a break for those drivers not going the entire distance from Va. 28 to U.S. 15/Va. 7.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on July 20, 2015, 03:13:26 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 02:31:01 PMYou will almost never see traffic jams on the AC Expressway during rush hour, but don't associate that with being underutilized!
I would think that's the definition of being underutilized, especially by New Jersey standards.
Looking at traffic counts measured in November, 2013 a few miles east of Rt. 42, it appears the Expressway has an amazingly even distribution of traffic. In total, about 68,000 travel the road per day in this 2 lanes per direction stretch of highway. During the AM rush hour, just a few hundred cars separated the flow going West (towards Philly) vs. going East (towards AC). During the PM rush hour, the numbers were even closer! http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/roadway/traffic_counts/TMS2Go/reports/9-4-313%20on%2008-20-2013-10_21_2013.pdf
The Betsy Ross Bridge compared to the Tacony Palmyra Bridge. Barely any connections on the PA side did this one in, as did the failure to build the PA90 expressway.
(Betsy Ross) 5.00 Toll
Average daily traffic (as of 2005)
36,400
(Tacony Palmyra) 2.00 toll
Average daily traffic (as of 2005)
44,628
Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 21, 2015, 11:32:13 AM
The Betsy Ross Bridge compared to the Tacony Palmyra Bridge. Barely any connections on the PA side did this one in, as did the failure to build the PA90 expressway.
(Betsy Ross) 5.00 Toll
Average daily traffic (as of 2005)
36,400
(Tacony Palmyra) 2.00 toll
Average daily traffic (as of 2005)
44,628
And to add: The Betsy Ross Bridge was 8 lanes wide, but reduced to 6 lanes due to the low usage in order to provide shoulders. The Tacony Palmyra was reduced from 4 lanes to 3 many years ago, but they were very narrow lanes that resulted in a number of sideswipes.
The ADT figures are even more impressive when you figure the Tacony loses crossing time due to drawbridge openings...sometimes several times a day.
I take the Tacony all the time. That $3 difference adds up over time esp when you're a daily commuter.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 21, 2015, 11:32:13 AM
The Betsy Ross Bridge compared to the Tacony Palmyra Bridge. Barely any connections on the PA side did this one in, as did the failure to build the PA90 expressway.
That's an odd assertion to make given that access to I-95 is a lot more straightforward from the Betsy Ross bridge than from Tacony-Palmyra which makes the latter only better for local traffic (between exits 27 and 30 on I-95, southeast of Roosevelt Blvd.). I would think the low figures are due to the higher toll.
Do the Orange County roads (CA 73, 133, 241, 261) still count?
I will add on to my previous post and say the PA Turnpike is underutilized. This ADT report from 2012
https://www.paturnpike.com/yourTurnpike/Reports-Main/2012%20Reports/2012_INTERCHANGE_AADT_Report.pdf
shows that the highest was Bensalem at around 33,000 AADT. In 2014, there must be a significant decrease in traffic due to Act 89.
Note: i think I got the wrong PDF, but this was the only one I could find.
QuoteThat's an odd assertion to make given that access to I-95 is a lot more straightforward from the Betsy Ross bridge than from Tacony-Palmyra which makes the latter only better for local traffic (between exits 27 and 30 on I-95, southeast of Roosevelt Blvd.). I would think the low figures are due to the higher toll.
I would agree. The Betsy Ross Bridge has much better network connections than the Tacony-Palmyra. It's pretty clear that the higher toll is what dissuades traffic, though knowing the origins/destinations of Tacony-Palmyra traffic would help cement that assertion.
Quote from: Bickendan on July 21, 2015, 01:18:10 PM
Do the Orange County roads (CA 73, 133, 241, 261) still count?
AADTs on Ca. 73 are ranging in the 60,000's for the tolled part.
AADTs on Ca. 241 range from 6,600 at the south end to 48,000 at the north end approaching Ca. 91.
Quote from: froggie on July 21, 2015, 01:29:10 PM
QuoteThat's an odd assertion to make given that access to I-95 is a lot more straightforward from the Betsy Ross bridge than from Tacony-Palmyra which makes the latter only better for local traffic (between exits 27 and 30 on I-95, southeast of Roosevelt Blvd.). I would think the low figures are due to the higher toll.
I would agree. The Betsy Ross Bridge has much better network connections than the Tacony-Palmyra. It's pretty clear that the higher toll is what dissuades traffic, though knowing the origins/destinations of Tacony-Palmyra traffic would help cement that assertion.
What i meant was that unless your destination is on richmond street, or along i-95 it does not make sense to pay the extra toll. Tacony is a better local bridge, and people would rather pay 3 dollars less to do the same crossing.
Going off the OP for E-470, I think they planned for the eventual outward expansion of the residential growth. Unfortunately, that doesn't bode well right now in the short term for $$$. I'm curious as to why they didn't make it a complete loop connecting the Northwest Parkway to the western 470 terminus at I-70
I don't know for sure but Houston's Fort Bend Toll Road and the tollways in Austin seem to always have light traffic.
Quote from: ET21 on July 21, 2015, 01:45:18 PM
Going off the OP for E-470, I think they planned for the eventual outward expansion of the residential growth. Unfortunately, that doesn't bode well right now in the short term for $$$. I'm curious as to why they didn't make it a complete loop connecting the Northwest Parkway to the western 470 terminus at I-70
One word: NIMBYs!!!
On a related note, Boulder residents for years have complained about US-36 (The Boulder Turnpike) not having enough lanes getting them to & from Denver. Now that there are newly constructed HOT lanes (which BTW, begin collecting tolls tomorrow 7/22) they are going to complain about the high cost of the tolls during rush hour (up to $7.20 one-way). It will be interesting to see how much those lanes will be used with the high pricing.
The one wrinkle is that even though car pools of 2+ people (scheduled to change to 3+ in a year or two) and motorcycles will pay no toll, they still have to buy a transponder which can switch from carpool to single occupant/toll)
Quote from: froggie on July 21, 2015, 01:29:10 PM
QuoteThat's an odd assertion to make given that access to I-95 is a lot more straightforward from the Betsy Ross bridge than from Tacony-Palmyra which makes the latter only better for local traffic (between exits 27 and 30 on I-95, southeast of Roosevelt Blvd.). I would think the low figures are due to the higher toll.
I would agree. The Betsy Ross Bridge has much better network connections than the Tacony-Palmyra. It's pretty clear that the higher toll is what dissuades traffic, though knowing the origins/destinations of Tacony-Palmyra traffic would help cement that assertion.
Well they're coming from the same location, the heart of South Jersey, the Marlton/Mt Laurel area for the most part. From what I've seen, people go in all directions coming off the bridge so it has to be more of a matter of avoiding tolls than anything else. You can easily access the Aramingo Shopping Area from either bridge and while the Betsy provides direct ramps to 95 in both directions, it's not like you have to jump through a ton of hoops to get to 95 from the Tacony. The SB ramp is only 3/4 miles down State Rd and the NB is just around the corner from the foot of the bridge. Also when you're a regular driver, those $3 add up pretty quickly esp if you're an EZPass holder and the Burlington Bridge Commission offers a discount and the DRPA gives you squat (I know that's about to change).
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 21, 2015, 01:28:26 PM
I will add on to my previous post and say the PA Turnpike is underutilized. This ADT report from 2012
https://www.paturnpike.com/yourTurnpike/Reports-Main/2012%20Reports/2012_INTERCHANGE_AADT_Report.pdf
shows that the highest was Bensalem at around 33,000 AADT. In 2014, there must be a significant decrease in traffic due to Act 89.
Note: i think I got the wrong PDF, but this was the only one I could find.
Hi Noel- You're misunderstanding that report. Those numbers refer to vehicles exiting and entering at those interchanges–not the number of vehicles
on the Turnpike at that point. And even then, the 33,000 number that you cited for Bensalem is just the number of people
entering at that interchange–not exiting. Combined, the Bensalem interchange alone handles an average of 62,000 vehicles per day.
At its busiest point (between I-476 and PA 309), the PA Turnpike averages almost 117,000 vehicles per day, and nowhere on the mainline does the number drop below about 22K, which is comparable to I-80 in similar parts of the state.
No, I don't think you can say that the mainline of the Turnpike is underutilized.
There are a few parts of the extended systems that are candidates, though. The Mon-Fayette (PA 43) was mentioned–with AADT numbers that drop below 5,000 in places. Turnpike 66 isn't as dead as 43, but I think its traffic counts haven't lived up to expectations. Also in southwestern PA–576 sees very little traffic, although in fairness, only a short segment is open. And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.
By the way–if you haven't already found them, PennDOT has traffic volume maps for the whole state (including the Turnpike) here: http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Internet/Bureaus/pdPlanRes.nsf/infoBPRTrafficInfoTrafficVolumeMap?openform
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2015, 02:49:13 PM
Quote from: ET21 on July 21, 2015, 01:45:18 PM
Going off the OP for E-470, I think they planned for the eventual outward expansion of the residential growth. Unfortunately, that doesn't bode well right now in the short term for $$$. I'm curious as to why they didn't make it a complete loop connecting the Northwest Parkway to the western 470 terminus at I-70
One word: NIMBYs!!!
Yep. The loop was planned to be finished but the remaining portion of it would have passed through Golden, a place that doesn't believe in building infrastructure that only accommodates motorized traffic and today is the epicenter of hipsterdom in the area. The western bypass of Golden that carries US 6 and CO 93 was built on the right of way planned for Northwest Parkway, but as a 2-4 lane undivided expressway rather than a freeway.
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 21, 2015, 07:46:03 AM
I can think of another underutilized toll road in Virginia: the Dulles Greenway/Tollway. You can shunpike up to VA 28 rather than using the main lanes. Combined with higher tolls, Virginia's DOT AADT 2012 in Loudoun County only shows VA 267 (pages 12 and 13) getting only 81,000 AADT as the highest east of Sully Road to the Fairfax County Line. The lowest was 14,000 AADT west of Old Ox Road, and gradually increased to 22,000 by Loudoun County Pkwy.
For Fairfax County, this one is a little more outdated, because it is 2010.
VA 267 (pages 34-37) only maxes out in 125,000 AADT, much less than you could see in Washington, DC's metro. This stretch lasts between International Drive and I-66 (though at I-495, traffic thins out at 66,000 AADT). This AADT count saw a decrease from 140,000 AADT. Between the Fairfax County line and Leesburg Pike, there really isn't too much traffic, despite being a good connector for Dulles Airport traffic to I-495 or US 29 (via I-66).
Traffic going to or from Dulles Airport doesn't generally use the Dulles Toll Road except to connect into the toll-free Dulles Access Road. The only exceptions are people who are going to or from the Spring Hill Road interchange (accessible only via the Toll Road and requires payment of a toll on all four ramps) or people who are just plain confused by the two parallel roads.
There's also no toll between I-495 and I-66. Part of what skews traffic counts on that segment is the peak-direction HOV-2 restriction on I-66. Since the Dulles Access Road Extension (sometimes called "the Connector Road" by radio traffic reporters) only goes to and from I-66 unless you're driving a bus with access to the West Falls Church Metro stop, there are about six hours a day where peak-direction traffic (to DC in the morning, from DC in the afternoon) is a lot less than you might expect, due to the HOV restriction–when HOV is in effect on I-66, it de facto applies on the Dulles Access Road Extension between I-66 and Route 123 (or vice versa) because there are no other exits.
I remember when a coworker and I were doing an audit in Ohio County, Kentucky, and we decided to go to Owensboro for dinner. At that time the Natcher Parkway was still a toll road, so after we got on at Beaver Dam and paid the toll, he was able to go 100 mph pretty much all the way in - there was literally not another car on the road. That's not the case now that the tolls are gone.
Quote from: JREwing78 on July 20, 2015, 08:55:23 PM
Quote from: US 41 on July 20, 2015, 09:05:41 AM
As far as American toll roads go I would say that the Indiana Toll Road is probably underutilized. The state of Indiana was losing money on it and the company that runs it now, declared bankruptcy a few months ago.
You're probably right - in 2011, traffic counts were 20,000 vehicles per day at the east end, 36,000 vehicles per day at the west end, albeit with considerable swelling in traffic counts on weekends. It's probably up a bit now, but east of Valparaiso the Toll Road generally has light to moderate traffic levels.
The Toll Road is certainly suffering from underinvestment, at least on the stretch between I-65 and Valparaiso. The massive toll plazas would move far more vehicles if converted to an open road tolling system. The one in Portage, in particular, can have long backups on weekends and holidays.
I agree that ORT would be a plus. A positive sign of the new leasee's commitment to the road is a recently-announced plan to rebuild the service plazas. They cited that the current buildings are from the '50s. (I'm not sure they go back quite that far.) I know that they have been renovated over the years, but they sorely need replacement.
Quote from: froggie on July 20, 2015, 02:47:27 PM
Quote from: HenryI like to think that I-895 in Baltimore has been underutilized since the Fort McHenry Tunnel opened 30 years ago.
It's not. The I-895 Baltimore Harbor Tunnel averages about 71K vehicles a day. That's 65% more than the Chicago Skyway in your neck of the woods...
Now there's an underutilized toll road! The Skyway lost money for decades as it was built about the same time and just after the Calumet, Kingery, and Borman Expressways (which are all non-toll). Most Chicago-bound traffic there uses the Borman, Kingery, Calumet, and Ryan Expressways (I-94) instead of the Indiana Toll Road and Chicago Skyway (I-90). The 2012 CMAP AADT on Northeastern Illinois Expressways (http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/24491/Expressway-Atlas-2012-Part3_2013-August-14.pdf/5336cd98-d700-4029-af50-c95f6c66d344) atlas tells the story of I-94 versus I-90.
The Kingery/Borman carries about 92,000 vehicles a day at the state line with about 64,000 vehicles going north on the Bishop Ford (nee Calumet). 30,000 to 36,000 vehicles use the I-94 ramps through the interchange between the two. At the Skyway interchange, about 122,000 vehicles go south on the Ryan as opposed to a mere 22,000 on the Skyway. In other words, the Skyway is only carrying 18% of the traffic off the Ryan at that point. By the time you're at the Kingery/Borman, I-94 is carrying about 10,000 to 14,000 more vehicles per day than the Skyway does at the Ryan.
QuoteThe Kingery/Borman carries about 92,000 vehicles a day at the state line with about 64,000 vehicles going north on the Bishop Ford (nee Calumet). 30,000 to 36,000 vehicles use the I-94 ramps through the interchange between the two. At the Skyway interchange, about 122,000 vehicles go south on the Ryan as opposed to a mere 22,000 on the Skyway.
Given that the volumes shown in the report are all one-way volumes, roughly double your numbers to get the two-way daily traffic. For example, the Kingery/Borman has 91,600 daily EB and 93,300 daily WB vehicles at the state line, for a two-way AADT total of 184,900. The maps show a combined 2-way volume for the Skyway of 47,400, which is roughly in line (mid-40s) for other traffic figures I've seen for the Skyway from other sources.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 21, 2015, 07:43:02 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2015, 02:49:13 PM
Quote from: ET21 on July 21, 2015, 01:45:18 PM
Going off the OP for E-470, I think they planned for the eventual outward expansion of the residential growth. Unfortunately, that doesn't bode well right now in the short term for $$$. I'm curious as to why they didn't make it a complete loop connecting the Northwest Parkway to the western 470 terminus at I-70
One word: NIMBYs!!!
Yep. The loop was planned to be finished but the remaining portion of it would have passed through Golden, a place that doesn't believe in building infrastructure that only accommodates motorized traffic and today is the epicenter of hipsterdom in the area. The western bypass of Golden that carries US 6 and CO 93 was built on the right of way planned for Northwest Parkway, but as a 2-4 lane undivided expressway rather than a freeway.
Hippy's vs road lol
A butt ton of them in Spain. Especially true when the route is entirely paralleled by a free autovia.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 20, 2015, 12:33:26 PM
I've never seen much traffic the times I've been on the Mon-Fayette in Pennsylvania.
Love when I have the opportunity to use the MFE because you are pretty much guaranteed the whole road practically to yourself. Unfortunately, because the MFE is inherently not very useful, those opportunities are rather infrequent.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 08:31:08 AMThe Expressway several years back built the Exit 41 Cross Keys Rd interchange in Gloucester Twp, in part to help ease congestion on Rt. 42 (which I guess would be the opposite of shunpiking).
That interchange wasn't about congestion as much as it was for access. Look at all of the commercial buildup in the area around the interchange since then. Gloucester Township pushed for the interchange to buildup that part of the town. The interchange and subsequent buildup brought more congestion to Cross Keys Road. Gloucester Township wanted to get in on the commercial business happening on 42 which at that point is in Washington Township. Gloucester Township did it again when they pushed for the College Drive interchange. Now there's an outlet mall about to open there. That'll be direct competition for Deptford Township and Washington Township.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on July 20, 2015, 03:13:26 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 02:31:01 PMYou will almost never see traffic jams on the AC Expressway during rush hour, but don't associate that with being underutilized!
I would think that's the definition of being underutilized, especially by New Jersey standards.
That road was built for summer traffic to get to the beaches and casinos. For that purpose the road is not under utilized. Otherwise why have they widened the highway over the years?
Quote from: BrianP on July 22, 2015, 03:19:42 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on July 20, 2015, 03:13:26 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 02:31:01 PMYou will almost never see traffic jams on the AC Expressway during rush hour, but don't associate that with being underutilized!
I would think that's the definition of being underutilized, especially by New Jersey standards.
That road was built for summer traffic to get to the beaches and casinos. For that purpose the road is not under utilized. Otherwise why have they widened the highway over the years?
Actually the road was opened about a decade before the casinos came to NJ.
Quote from: 1 on July 19, 2015, 06:23:09 PM
I would also guess NY 23 and NY 199 (both across the Hudson), although those are both complete guesses from me.
Your guesses would be incorrect. Rip Van Winkle (NY 23) had a forecasted AADT of 14.3K in 2013. Kingston-Rhinecliff (NY 199) had a 2013 estimate of 21.1K. Both are pretty substantial for 2 lane undivided bridges that only connect to surface roads at the eastern end.
The Castleton Bridge a bit upstream of Rip Van Winkle
is underutilized. Actual 2013 AADT taken on the Rensselaer side was 12.9K and, except for the lack of a substantial barrier on the bridge, the entire Berkshire Spur is Interstate quality. Castleton is the least-utilized crossing south of Cohoes.
Quote from: briantroutman on July 21, 2015, 06:45:29 PM
And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.
You can thank Eisenhower for that. Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus. Then, with interstate money, PennDOT built I-81 on the planned ROW north of there. But instead of using the turnpike extension, they went and built a new free alignment that passes closer to downtown and provides direct access to I-84, I-380, and the US 6 bypass.
So of course no one uses the Northeast Extension because in addition to being tolled, it's severely lacking in connections to anything.
Quote from: cl94 on July 22, 2015, 06:49:10 PM
The Castleton Bridge a bit upstream of Rip Van Winkle is underutilized. Actual 2013 AADT taken on the Rensselaer side was 12.9K and, except for the lack of a substantial barrier on the bridge, the entire Berkshire Spur is Interstate quality. Castleton is the least-utilized crossing south of Cohoes.
Another thank Eisenhower example. Once free I-90 was completed, there was no longer much justification for people to use that section of road. Free I-90 provides connections to most of Albany that are just as good or better for local traffic, and provides an easy shunpike route for longer distance traffic.
This precipitous drop in traffic even resulted in the closing of a pair of service plazas west of B1. One of which is now in use as a local business!
Quote from: realjd on July 20, 2015, 08:18:33 AM
I've never heard the term shunpiking before. I had to go look it up.
"Shunpike" is a word that apparently predates the roadgeek community - I remember seeing it in a dictionary over 30 years ago, when I had to look up the word "shun", thinking it couldn't really be a word. That said, I never heard anyone say or use
shunpike until arriving here.
What's the deal with FL 293 by Valpariso? It seems like a tolled Super 2 is a rather pointless idea.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 22, 2015, 09:10:19 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on July 21, 2015, 06:45:29 PM
And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.
You can thank Eisenhower for that. Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus.
So of course no one uses the Northeast Extension because in addition to being tolled, it's severely lacking in connections to anything.
Two questions.
1. Is the "Temporary Ending" thing why the end of the Northeastern Extension at Clark's Summit have that strange sharp curve?
2. If the Northeastern Extension went to the NY Line would we have had a NY thruway spur to the Northeastern Extension?
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 22, 2015, 09:16:33 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 22, 2015, 09:10:19 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on July 21, 2015, 06:45:29 PM
And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.
You can thank Eisenhower for that. Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus.
So of course no one uses the Northeast Extension because in addition to being tolled, it's severely lacking in connections to anything.
Two questions.
1. Is the "Temporary Ending" thing why the end of the Northeastern Extension at Clark's Summit have that strange sharp curve?
2. If the Northeastern Extension went to the NY Line would we have had a NY thruway spur to the Northeastern Extension?
To answer:
1. Yes. If the curve wasn't there, it would flow onto current I-81. Very evident on a map.
2. Don't think so. The NY 17 upgrades were proposed as the state's first modern free expressway and began construction before the Interstate system. I know NYSTA didn't like the idea of a free route, but I do not know if any of it was planned to be tolled.
Quote from: formulanone on July 22, 2015, 09:16:07 PM
Quote from: realjd on July 20, 2015, 08:18:33 AM
I've never heard the term shunpiking before. I had to go look it up.
"Shunpike" is a word that apparently predates the roadgeek community - I remember seeing it in a dictionary over 30 years ago, when I had to look up the word "shun", thinking it couldn't really be a word. That said, I never heard anyone say or use shunpike until arriving here.
Many shunpikes predate any modern toll road, and were probably born back in the horse and buggy days of the 1800's or 1900's. Here's one example of a road named Shunpike Rd where there's no modern day toll road around: https://goo.gl/maps/XCYkg
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 22, 2015, 09:59:29 PM
Many shunpikes predate any modern toll road, and were probably born back in the horse and buggy days of the 1800's or 1900's. Here's one example of a road named Shunpike Rd where there's no modern day toll road around: https://goo.gl/maps/XCYkg
Even older than that. Toll roads have existed since antiquity.
If you see any road whose name ends in "turnpike" it probably was once tolled. The word "turnpike" itself refers to the action of a toll taker turning a pike (i.e. lifting a gate) to grant access to the road. The term "shunpike", then, logically arises from this - it's a means of shunning the pike.
How about the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which is at the end of the Nassau Expressway (NY 878)? Apparently, they don't even have the money to install E-ZPass detectors, so it's still all cash. I've heard rumors that the purpose of the toll is more to keep through traffic out of Atlantic Beach than to make money for the county.
Quote from: dgolub on July 23, 2015, 08:54:10 AM
How about the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which is at the end of the Nassau Expressway (NY 878)? Apparently, they don't even have the money to install E-ZPass detectors, so it's still all cash. I've heard rumors that the purpose of the toll is more to keep through traffic out of Atlantic Beach than to make money for the county.
Wrong on E-ZPass. They haven't installed it because the county doesn't want to be subject to audits and accounting. The Nassau County Bridge Authority has been corrupt for the entire 70 years of its existence. The toll is mainly to give jobs to retirees and the children/relatives of politicians.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 22, 2015, 09:10:19 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on July 21, 2015, 06:45:29 PM
And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.
You can thank Eisenhower for that. Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus. Then, with interstate money, PennDOT built I-81 on the planned ROW north of there. But instead of using the turnpike extension, they went and built a new free alignment that passes closer to downtown and provides direct access to I-84, I-380, and the US 6 bypass.
So of course no one uses the Northeast Extension because in addition to being tolled, it's severely lacking in connections to anything.
Last time I went that direction, there was a horrendous traffic jam on I-81 northbound. I bailed at the connection to I-476 (PA 315?) and used the NE Extension to connect with US 11 north at Clark's Summit. There was hardly any traffic on 476. I'm not sure how much I had to pay in tolls (I have E-ZPass) but it was worth it to get out of that mess on I-81.
Quote from: Duke87Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus. Then, with interstate money, PennDOT built I-81 on the planned ROW north of there. But instead of using the turnpike extension, they went and built a new free alignment that passes closer to downtown and provides direct access to I-84, I-380, and the US 6 bypass.
Which means the Turnpike Extension is one of Scranton's best kept secrets. Between the 65 MPH lack of traffic on the extension and the 55 MPH lucky-to-maintain-it-with-heavy-traffic on I-81, it's generally a wash as far as travel time, and is actually advantagous if one is on the Extension to/from the Lehigh Valley. I used it almost exclusively when I made my Norfolk-Syracuse runs a decade ago.
Quote from: formulanoneWhat's the deal with FL 293 by Valpariso? It seems like a tolled Super 2 is a rather pointless idea.
A way for traffic to bypass the dozen or so signals on FL 20 through Niceville. Has its best utility for those trying to access points from Destin eastward from I-10.
Quote from: iBallasticwolf22. If the Northeastern Extension went to the NY Line would we have had a NY thruway spur to the Northeastern Extension?
Possibly. A 1955 toll roads map (http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/tollroads-1955.jpg) suggests NYSTA was proposing a north-south toll road that, oddly, would've skipped Binghamton and Syracuse but served Utica. It stands to reason that, had the 1956 highway act not followed through (or Congress went with tolls instead of a gas tax as a funding mechanism), NYSTA probably would've revised their route to match whatever came north from Scranton.
Now I'm imagining what a tolled Adirondack Northway would look like. I'm imagining a lot fewer exits.
It would also be interesting to think about what having nowhere to go from Albany without paying a toll would do to development. There would probably be a lot less sprawl between Albany and Lake George.
Quote from: vdeane on July 23, 2015, 08:50:45 PM
It would also be interesting to think about what having nowhere to go from Albany without paying a toll would do to development.
I-88?
Quote from: froggie on July 23, 2015, 07:38:38 PM
A 1955 toll roads map (http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/tollroads-1955.jpg) suggests...
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/457/19962890721_b8a8d651c4_o.png)
Thanks–this is the first visual evidence I've seen that illustrates what Jeff Kitsko's PA Turnpike history describes as:
"An east-west highway that would run from Stroudsburg to an unspecified point on the Susquehanna River (some maps showed the terminus at Millersburg)." A PA Turnpike extension that would have served Schuylkill County and then dead ended in an isolated river town of a couple thousand people–missing the state capital and making no connection to the east-west mainline–always struck me as a laughable idea...and yet there it is!
I think we're all better off that this east-west extension ended up becoming Stroudsburg-Sharon (and subsequently the Keystone Shortway and I-80) instead.
You can also see the proposed Gettysburg Extension clearly.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 23, 2015, 02:27:50 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 22, 2015, 09:10:19 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on July 21, 2015, 06:45:29 PM
And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.
You can thank Eisenhower for that. Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus. Then, with interstate money, PennDOT built I-81 on the planned ROW north of there. But instead of using the turnpike extension, they went and built a new free alignment that passes closer to downtown and provides direct access to I-84, I-380, and the US 6 bypass.
So of course no one uses the Northeast Extension because in addition to being tolled, it's severely lacking in connections to anything.
Last time I went that direction, there was a horrendous traffic jam on I-81 northbound. I bailed at the connection to I-476 (PA 315?) and used the NE Extension to connect with US 11 north at Clark's Summit. There was hardly any traffic on 476. I'm not sure how much I had to pay in tolls (I have E-ZPass) but it was worth it to get out of that mess on I-81.
The north end of 476 also rewards drivers with a pretty spectacular view of the Lackawanna River Valley, especially southbound.
Quote from: 1 on July 23, 2015, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 23, 2015, 08:50:45 PM
It would also be interesting to think about what having nowhere to go from Albany without paying a toll would do to development.
I-88?
A bit further west than most development, though there's some near exit 25... longer exit distances, mountainous terrain, and the necessity of dealing with the exit 24 toll backup if commuting in don't help the case for developing it.
Quote from: vdeane on July 23, 2015, 08:50:45 PM
Now I'm imagining what a tolled Adirondack Northway would look like. I'm imagining a lot fewer exits.
It would also be interesting to think about what having nowhere to go from Albany without paying a toll would do to development. There would probably be a lot less sprawl between Albany and Lake George.
When I was little, the Adirondack Northway shrunk down to 4 lanes just north of the Twin Bridges over the Mohawk River. BGS were anchored on large log-size posts. It was a dull ride all the way to Lake George, particularly so north of Saratoga Springs. Interstate 87 was expanded to six lanes around 1970. Taking US 9, Albany-Saratoga Road was not much better, really dull with all the tall pines along vast straight sections in the Town of Wilton. Much has changed in 50 years.
Quote from: formulanone on July 22, 2015, 09:16:07 PM
What's the deal with FL 293 by Valpariso? It seems like a tolled Super 2 is a rather pointless idea.
It's primarily a toll bridge. The super 2 section is primarily a bridge approach to make it easier to get to from I10 and VPS. It was built as part of the toll bridge. I think it was largely a funding issue and this way they could build it without spending tax dollars. I have no idea if it's an FDOT highway or a county tolling authority highway.
What's even more annoying IMO is the Osceola Parkway, the only toll road I know that's riddled with stoplight and strip malls.
Quote from: realjd on July 24, 2015, 03:29:38 PM
What's even more annoying IMO is the Osceola Parkway, the only toll road I know that's riddled with stoplight and strip malls.
Why the hell is that thing even tolled when it isn't even limited access. It isn't a freeway and shouldn't be tolled.
Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 24, 2015, 01:12:06 PM
Taking US 9, Albany-Saratoga Road was not much better, really dull with all the tall pines along vast straight sections in the Town of Wilton. Much has changed in 50 years.
These parts haven't changed at all. ;) I think the stretch from US 9 (exit 13) to the park boundary is the most boring stretch of freeway in the entire state. The section north of the park in Clinton County isn't much better, but I'm not on that stretch nearly as often, so it doesn't bore me as much.
Quote from: realjd on July 24, 2015, 03:29:38 PM
What's even more annoying IMO is the Osceola Parkway, the only toll road I know that's riddled with stoplight and strip malls.
The toll is essentially for the bridge over Shingle Creek.
This entire four-page thread and not one mention of the Chickasaw Turnpike in Oklahoma?
Got the opportunity to drive this road about 6-7 years ago. Even for a two-lane, it's grossly underutilized. I'm sure most people just take the free road that's just a tad slower than paying the toll. If they extended it from Pauls Valley northeast toward Okmulgee/Tulsa/etc it would be a good shortcut route bypassing OKC from I-35N/I-40E-I-40W/I-35S movements.
Quote from: Sykotyk on July 25, 2015, 04:37:36 PM
This entire four-page thread and not one mention of the Chickasaw Turnpike in Oklahoma?
Got the opportunity to drive this road about 6-7 years ago. Even for a two-lane, it's grossly underutilized. I'm sure most people just take the free road that's just a tad slower than paying the toll. If they extended it from Pauls Valley northeast toward Okmulgee/Tulsa/etc it would be a good shortcut route bypassing OKC from I-35N/I-40E-I-40W/I-35S movements.
I was wondering the same thing. Thing doesn't even make enough revenue to cover expenses.
Usually really light traffic on Orange County toll roads. I usually fly down 241, making it a great alternative to the 91 when coming back into OC from areas east.
Not sure the financial situation of them, but there never seems to be too much traffic on em.
Quote from: realjd on July 24, 2015, 03:29:38 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 22, 2015, 09:16:07 PM
What's the deal with FL 293 by Valpariso? It seems like a tolled Super 2 is a rather pointless idea.
It's primarily a toll bridge. The super 2 section is primarily a bridge approach to make it easier to get to from I10 and VPS. It was built as part of the toll bridge. I think it was largely a funding issue and this way they could build it without spending tax dollars. I have no idea if it's an FDOT highway or a county tolling authority highway.
Ah, the not-enough-money problem.
QuoteWhat's even more annoying IMO is the Osceola Parkway, the only toll road I know that's riddled with stoplight and strip malls.
Fifteen years ago, chances were you dealt with 2 stoplights and it cost $1. Then that Loop Mall section was built. And the John Young flyover was built to serve...John Young. Increased sprawl and more traffic lights.
It was built to serve Walt Disney World without having to deal with I-4, but only made sense if you came from points south on the Turnpike. After you've spent $12 to get there, what's one more?
It's never been particularly busy.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on July 27, 2015, 01:06:38 PM
Usually really light traffic on Orange County toll roads. I usually fly down 241, making it a great alternative to the 91 when coming back into OC from areas east.
Not sure the financial situation of them, but there never seems to be too much traffic on em.
The financial situation's not too hot. (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-tollway-bonds-approved-20141009-story.html) The 73 has never met its use projections and has underperformed. They combined the operation and finances of the 241/261/133 with the 73 to essentially use the health of the 241/261/133 to bail out the underperforming 73. As a result, the day when which the tolls can be retired on both sets of roads has been pushed way back, and they've had to refinance the bonds several times in the process.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on July 19, 2015, 09:16:03 PM
Quote from: Brian556 on July 19, 2015, 06:32:34 PM
I wonder about all the toll roads in Orlando. I personally avoid them. The non-toll roads around there have very heavy traffic.
While many people do indeed shunpike the Orlando area toll roads, I don't think they are really underutilized at all. Last time I was there they had a fairly good amount of traffic. SR 408 seems to be the busiest of them all.
People don't really shunpike.. They just avoid the tolls. That's why i4is so busy. Now they are making i4 into a partial toll road
Quote from: jwolfer on August 02, 2015, 03:18:30 PM
Now they are making i4 into a partial toll road
They are only adding Paid lanes to I-4. I-4 will still have free lanes.
In Orlando, FL- I think that Goldenrod Road is underutilized as they had to lay off the toll collectors after the first few months of operation and go fully automated.
Many of us in Orlando feel that it is dumb for that road to be tolled being its not a freeway so many do not use it.
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 02, 2015, 03:23:22 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on August 02, 2015, 03:18:30 PM
Now they are making i4 into a partial toll road
They are only adding Paid lanes to I-4. I-4 will still have free lanes.
Partial was meant to imply that.. I should have been clearer. Just like in South Florida the free lanes will be horribly backed up.
Or like Carrol Street/Hoagland Blvd. in Kissimmee to save 2 bucks on the Osceola Parkway. People spend more money on gas than they do saving the $2 in tolls. With the school zones, over crowding of the existing two lane roadway, and long signal at US 192, plus 192 going way out of the way all adds up. Then when Tapestry is fully developed and traffic gets extremely worse, they will still shumpike the toll.
Sorry to bring up another Mexican toll road, but who in their right mind would take the toll road from Jimenez to Torreon? I put a streetview link of the free road below. It also says in the Rand McNally that the free route is 4 miles shorter. The toll route costs 284 Pesos ($17.57 USD) to use. I doubt to many people, especially truckers use the toll road in this case either.
https://goo.gl/maps/hBnsC
Quote from: roadman65 on August 02, 2015, 03:33:08 PM
Or like Carrol Street/Hoagland Blvd. in Kissimmee to save 2 bucks on the Osceola Parkway. People spend more money on gas than they do saving the $2 in tolls. With the school zones, over crowding of the existing two lane roadway, and long signal at US 192, plus 192 going way out of the way all adds up. Then when Tapestry is fully developed and traffic gets extremely worse, they will still shumpike the toll.
If I have to get to the attractions area from north of Orlando 417 and soon 429 will be worth the toll if I am in a time crunch
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on July 31, 2015, 07:32:26 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on July 27, 2015, 01:06:38 PM
Usually really light traffic on Orange County toll roads. I usually fly down 241, making it a great alternative to the 91 when coming back into OC from areas east.
Not sure the financial situation of them, but there never seems to be too much traffic on em.
The financial situation's not too hot. (http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-tollway-bonds-approved-20141009-story.html) The 73 has never met its use projections and has underperformed. They combined the operation and finances of the 241/261/133 with the 73 to essentially use the health of the 241/261/133 to bail out the underperforming 73. As a result, the day when which the tolls can be retired on both sets of roads has been pushed way back, and they've had to refinance the bonds several times in the process.
Sounds about right! While the 241/261/133 aren't exactly busy by OC standards, they're bustling compared to the 73. I was on it this past weekend and was flying!
The Harbor Tunnel Thruway in Baltimore has been busy lately with traffic avoiding the construction at the I-95/395 interchange. Its also handy to bypass the area when there are sporting events or accidents.
As for under utilized roads, I'd put the NC-540 Triangle Expressway up there. Every time I've been on it, its been a ghost town. NCDOT claims its "meeting traffic expectations" though.