AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: realjd on July 20, 2015, 08:10:55 AM

Title: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: realjd on July 20, 2015, 08:10:55 AM
After the recent death of a UCF student who went off of the freeway into a retention pond and drowned, there's talk of passing new legislation requiring any roadside retention pond be protected by guardrails. Personally I think it's a good idea. Do any other states have similar policies?

http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2015/7/19/new_legislation_prop.html
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 08:39:59 AM
Isn't the point of guardrails (actually, guiderails) supposed to protect motorists from such hazards?  It sounds more like a policy decision, not something that needs to be legislated.  Just thinking of Jersey here, I can't recall too many examples where any waterway doesn't have some sort of protection around it - those closer to the road will have guiderails near it; those further away tend to have fencing around it to keep people out.

QuoteClarissa does face critics though. Some worry the proposal could cost taxpayers, but Clarissa said the money would come from federal grants, toll money and sponsors.

In other words, it will still cost taxpayers.   And how many businesses are going to sponsor a guardrail? 
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: oscar on July 20, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
How often are retention ponds deep enough for errant drivers to drown? Usually, guardrails aren't needed to guard shallow waters (unless there's a steep slope or other reason for a rail), since there's not a huge downside to letting the vehicle go off the road. The guardrail guarantees significant vehicle damage, while without a rail, maybe the driver would've recovered in time to avoid immersion or other serious damage.
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: realjd on July 20, 2015, 09:31:39 AM
Quote from: oscar on July 20, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
How often are retention ponds deep enough for errant drivers to drown? Usually, guardrails aren't needed to guard shallow waters (unless there's a steep slope or other reason for a rail), since there's not a huge downside to letting the vehicle go off the road. The guardrail guarantees significant vehicle damage, while without a rail, maybe the driver would've recovered in time to avoid immersion or other serious damage.

Water depth depends on the time of year but in the summer they can often be 15-20 feet deep, and they often have fairly steep sides.
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: jwolfer on July 20, 2015, 09:47:55 AM
Quote from: realjd on July 20, 2015, 08:10:55 AM
After the recent death of a UCF student who went off of the freeway into a retention pond and drowned, there's talk of passing new legislation requiring any roadside retention pond be protected by guardrails. Personally I think it's a good idea. Do any other states have similar policies?

http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2015/7/19/new_legislation_prop.html
I don't know this case specifics but all the more reason for everyone learning how to swim.  And to think about emergency scenarios, just in case. Although she may have lost consciousness.

She may have died because of panicing and not thinking straight.

It doesn't seem to be the case here, but many time the retention pond cars are drunk. My nephews friend crashed his truck into a retention pond after drinking a bunch. He was missing for a few months but they found the truck in about 15' of water. Body gone, probably eaten by alligators or decayed in the Florida heat
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 10:12:57 AM
Most retention ponds are designed to hold several feet of water, so while they may be generally dry, when a storm hits they can fill up rather quickly. 

If a car gets to a pond and sinks in, chances are the car is damaged and the doors may not open.  Plus, once you get water surrounding the car, that's an enormous force to contend with trying to open the door, and once you start opening it, a lot of water (and stinky water at that) will come pouring in. 

It doesn't matter how much swimming experience someone may have; if you find yourself in a retention pond, chances are you are injured or incoherent.  You really can't plan for such an experience.
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: hbelkins on July 20, 2015, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 08:39:59 AM
Isn't the point of guardrails (actually, guiderails)

Not in Kentucky. They're guardrails. "Guiderail" is one of those weird Yankee terms around here.  :-D
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: TEG24601 on July 20, 2015, 01:44:45 PM
In Washington, the retention ponds that actually keep water (because of slow infiltration), have fences around them.  In fact, they were required to add one when they expanded my High School in the early 90s... the soil wasn't great to it holds water, so they put up a fence, it was then called "Freshman Pond", for likely reasons.
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: roadman on July 20, 2015, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 20, 2015, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 08:39:59 AM
Isn't the point of guardrails (actually, guiderails)

Not in Kentucky. They're guardrails. "Guiderail" is one of those weird Yankee terms around here.  :-D

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14700.0
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: intelati49 on July 20, 2015, 04:57:45 PM
From what I can tell, the clearzone recommended is around 20-30 ft (http://epg.modot.mo.gov/files/e/e4/231.2_Clear_Zone_Distance_Curves.pdf). The interchange meets those requirements. However, there if there is a history of it, then something needs to be done. I can't tell if there is a history at this location, but this reeks of media hysteria to me.
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: roadfro on July 20, 2015, 05:04:39 PM
Yeah it really depends on the proximity of the pond to the road edge, depth of pond, slope and drop off to the pond, prevailing speed, etc. Generally, if the pond possess such a hazard already, a guardrail or jersey wall should be required per design guidelines.
Title: Re: Guardrails at retention ponds
Post by: hbelkins on July 20, 2015, 09:12:00 PM
Quote from: roadman on July 20, 2015, 02:08:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 20, 2015, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2015, 08:39:59 AM
Isn't the point of guardrails (actually, guiderails)

Not in Kentucky. They're guardrails. "Guiderail" is one of those weird Yankee terms around here.  :-D

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14700.0

And as I posted in that thread...

Quote from: hbelkins on February 07, 2015, 08:12:02 PM
It's officially guardrail in Kentucky. All the legalese about calling it "guiderail" is proof that Shakespeare was right about lawyers.