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Since I can't get a valid link from Flickr to embed the pic, you can go to https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/19985243625/ to see the new challenger for ODOT's worst sign category.

Not even the state-named I-44 shield can save that piece of shit from being called what it is - a piece of shit.

The funny thing is that the atrocious "Okla City" in the sign body isn't even needed, considering it's also in the tab! Without that chicken scratch scrawled in the middle of the sign, it wouldn't look so bad!

I'd say I want some of what ODOT's smoking, but I'd be too worried about getting brain damage.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/352/19985243625_6474266063_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ws2ADX)DSC_0020 (https://flic.kr/p/ws2ADX) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr

Like this?  I put it on the Worst of Road Signs thread as well for you.

^^^GAAHHHHHH!  :ded: :hmmm: :wow:

It is bad, but not in quite the same league as the infamous Craig County sign.  Could this be an OTA sign?

Quote from: J N Winkler on July 26, 2015, 05:46:27 PM
It is bad, but not in quite the same league as the infamous Craig County sign.  Could this be an OTA sign?

I asked my daughter (who works for ODOT).  She said ODOT does the signing for OTA in most instances.

What the hell were they thinking? The sign never needed the tab in the first place, and the fonts look just plain wrong.

Here, something that can fix it (maybe post in redesign this?)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1291.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb551%2Fslik_sh00ter%2FI44East_zpsr5wm9ehx.png&hash=766c92253469245b29322e88fc67009c2e88d90b)

Arrow is of Quebec design (which I like)

Example: https://goo.gl/maps/NB5ZZ

Quote from: Henry on July 30, 2015, 12:08:00 PM
What the hell were they thinking? The sign never needed the tab in the first place, and the fonts look just plain wrong.

Probably fabricated it as a single sign. Emphasized "TURNPIKE" so that people wouldn't drive on the toll road and then complain when they got to the plaza that they didn't know. Started getting complaints that they didn't know which way the road went (the Bailey Turnpike goes N/S here, even though it's signed E/W), so they added the OKC tab. Started getting complaints that no one noticed the tab, so they added "OkLA. CITY" with spare letters the sign fabricator had in the shop.

Quote from: Brandon on July 25, 2015, 10:15:10 PM
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/352/19985243625_6474266063_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ws2ADX)DSC_0020 (https://flic.kr/p/ws2ADX) by rte66man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rte66man/), on Flickr

Like this?  I put it on the Worst of Road Signs thread as well for you.

Belongs in the Department of Redundancy Department.

Quote from: Darkchylde on July 25, 2015, 07:43:39 PM
The funny thing is that the atrocious "Okla City" in the sign body isn't even needed, considering it's also in the tab! Without that chicken scratch scrawled in the middle of the sign, it wouldn't look so bad!

I'd say I want some of what ODOT's smoking, but I'd be too worried about getting brain damage.

Yeah, without the ridiculous OKLA CITY crammed in the middle, it's not a bad sign:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SfjEvmPuoMVXAS101eSnpuoPV6snElsFqe45hxmDeH8=w1024-h841-no)

Quote from: Thing 342 on July 30, 2015, 02:33:38 PM

Quote from: Darkchylde on July 25, 2015, 07:43:39 PM
The funny thing is that the atrocious "Okla City" in the sign body isn't even needed, considering it's also in the tab! Without that chicken scratch scrawled in the middle of the sign, it wouldn't look so bad!

I'd say I want some of what ODOT's smoking, but I'd be too worried about getting brain damage.

Yeah, without the ridiculous OKLA CITY crammed in the middle, it's not a bad sign:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SfjEvmPuoMVXAS101eSnpuoPV6snElsFqe45hxmDeH8=w1024-h841-no)

Like TxtoNJ said, this was probably what the sign looked like prior to the 3rd Grader addendum.  It might have worked better if the OK City tab was moved to the lower right side of the sign.

Quote from: thenetwork on July 30, 2015, 03:44:41 PM

Quote from: Thing 342 on July 30, 2015, 02:33:38 PM

Quote from: Darkchylde on July 25, 2015, 07:43:39 PM
The funny thing is that the atrocious "Okla City" in the sign body isn't even needed, considering it's also in the tab! Without that chicken scratch scrawled in the middle of the sign, it wouldn't look so bad!

I'd say I want some of what ODOT's smoking, but I'd be too worried about getting brain damage.

Yeah, without the ridiculous OKLA CITY crammed in the middle, it's not a bad sign:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SfjEvmPuoMVXAS101eSnpuoPV6snElsFqe45hxmDeH8=w1024-h841-no)

Like TxtoNJ said, this was probably what the sign looked like prior to the 3rd Grader addendum.  It might have worked better if the OK City tab was moved to the lower right side of the sign.

The other direction: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0225473,-97.9347926,3a,15y,35.96h,88.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRsYoLRQikHeBecETYYVeqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I felt like redesigning it.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FnlpYs2t.png&hash=b819a73388128e0fdd4d76ab3a60cf37fad998f0)

"Okla. City" is standard but there was enough room to fit the whole thing so I figured why not spell it out.

Look at the top shield. The state is taller than on the bottom one, and the number is farther down:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7698416,-95.3204774,3a,15y,108.42h,90.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sBnUM4tBcJd-hrYH1o0wKZA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DBnUM4tBcJd-hrYH1o0wKZA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D45.456306%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7698416,-95.3204774,3a,15y,108.42h,90.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sBnUM4tBcJd-hrYH1o0wKZA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DBnUM4tBcJd-hrYH1o0wKZA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D45.456306%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)

Look at the "7" on this one:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3763394,-96.1337787,3a,15y,38.5h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN08qpiOmV-bfQEKk8K2wbw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3763394,-96.1337787,3a,15y,38.5h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN08qpiOmV-bfQEKk8K2wbw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Quote from: Brian556 on June 07, 2018, 11:34:03 PM
Look at the top shield. The state is taller than on the bottom one, and the number is farther down:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7698416,-95.3204774,3a,15y,108.42h,90.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sBnUM4tBcJd-hrYH1o0wKZA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DBnUM4tBcJd-hrYH1o0wKZA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D45.456306%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7698416,-95.3204774,3a,15y,108.42h,90.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sBnUM4tBcJd-hrYH1o0wKZA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DBnUM4tBcJd-hrYH1o0wKZA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D45.456306%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)

I've been through there and I never noticed.

Quote from: Brian556 on June 07, 2018, 11:34:03 PM
Look at the "7" on this one:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3763394,-96.1337787,3a,15y,38.5h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN08qpiOmV-bfQEKk8K2wbw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3763394,-96.1337787,3a,15y,38.5h,84.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN08qpiOmV-bfQEKk8K2wbw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Alternate uses for the capital "L".

I'm not sure why Oklahoma ends up with some of the poorly designed (and fabricated) traffic signs on its highways. Could it be ODOT jobbing out some sign jobs to subcontractors who don't know or don't care how to follow the MUTCD and SHS manuals? That might explain some of the odd, non-standard Interstate shields, wrong fonts and other garbage I've seen on some green signs in Oklahoma. Penny pinching definitely has to be a factor on some of these signs. Some signs have panels that are way too small for the message being displayed. Some existing signs get additional lettering crammed onto their panels well after they were first installed.

I copied some Google Maps/Street View links to several bad examples.

Here's a few where lowercase letters were reduced to 75% of their normal height. I've seen this sign error in other states. The error comes from a misunderstanding of MUTCD rules regarding approved sign fonts. The typeface has to have lowercase letters with an x-height at least 75% the height of the capital "M" height. For example a font with the capital letter "M" set at 1 inch tall would have a lowercase "x" at least 3/4 inches tall. Some goofball at ODOT decided the lowercase characters had to be scaled down to 75% of their normal height. That would reduce that 3/4 inch tall "x" in my hypothetical example down to just 7/16" tall. Anyway, examples:
I-44: State Line & Wichita Falls mileage sign: goo.gl/y3HJiA (http://goo.gl/y3HJiA)
I-44: Lawton & Okla City mileage sign: goo.gl/AKLNuD (http://goo.gl/AKLNuD)
I-44: Grandfield exit sign: goo.gl/1s1czt (http://goo.gl/1s1czt)

This might be the most tiny exit sign in the entire Interstate highway system. But it still needed two support posts!
goo.gl/yU3v5t (http://goo.gl/yU3v5t)

Check out the I-35 shield on the Wichita sign: goo.gl/z8PC3P (http://goo.gl/z8PC3P)
They took a 3di shield and squeezed it into the width of a 2di shield. I'm not sure why they had to do that. The I-44 & I-35 shields on the left side of the sign bridge are normal.

This is one of a few examples along the Rogers Lane fake freeway in Lawton:
goo.gl/gYYMk8 (http://goo.gl/gYYMk8)
ODOT went with a smaller, cheaper sign panel yet really tried to cram those Clearview letters together. They could have used a more naturally condensed weight like 2W or 3W, but that wouldn't have the same look as a real freeway sign. The problem is this crap they installed along this fake freeway doesn't look like a proper freeway sign either.

ODOT must have had people peeling and sticking the vinyl letters on this sign one at a time:
goo.gl/hA71SQ (http://goo.gl/hA71SQ)
Some of the words have mixed letter sizes in the same word. Check out the huge "l" in "Great Plains" or the big "r" in "Auditorium." Some of the letters were applied a bit crooked to give the sign more of a wacky look.

This sign is near Elgin on I-44:
goo.gl/7UaoQV (http://goo.gl/7UaoQV)
The sign for the Elgin exit is pretty old. It's one of those Frankenstein jobs where additional lettering for Sterling was added later.

I agree with not using abbreviations when there is room.. I don't like how signs for Philadelphia say Phila.

Z981

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 08, 2018, 03:54:38 PM
This sign is near Elgin on I-44:
goo.gl/7UaoQV (http://goo.gl/7UaoQV)
The sign for the Elgin exit is pretty old. It's one of those Frankenstein jobs where additional lettering for Sterling was added later.

The Clearview "2 MILES" on an otherwise fully FHWA sign is just icing on the cake.

In regards to the state highway "hatchet" signage, it certainly looks like ODOT simply stocks the raw unnumbered sign and applies the route numbers via adhesive "appliques"; how much care was put into this process (it shouldn't be too difficult for the district shops to cobble up some jigs!) is reflected in the differences in placement, kerning, etc.  In the case of the 165/351 shields on the US 62 approach BGS, it looks like they got lazy on the 165 shield and simply lined up the numbers along the bottom edge; 351 was better centered (vertically) in that regard, but the kerning between the digits is a bit off.  I suppose it depends upon the shop and how the staff is feeling on any particular day! 

Quote from: sparker on June 08, 2018, 08:01:07 PM
In regards to the state highway "hatchet" signage, it certainly looks like ODOT simply stocks the raw unnumbered sign and applies the route numbers via adhesive "appliques"; how much care was put into this process (it shouldn't be too difficult for the district shops to cobble up some jigs!) is reflected in the differences in placement, kerning, etc.  In the case of the 165/351 shields on the US 62 approach BGS, it looks like they got lazy on the 165 shield and simply lined up the numbers along the bottom edge; 351 was better centered (vertically) in that regard, but the kerning between the digits is a bit off.  I suppose it depends upon the shop and how the staff is feeling on any particular day! 

On the 165 sign, the shape of OK got elongated vertically. how do you explain that? The route marker design should be standardized with no way to do that

Quote from: Brian556 on June 08, 2018, 10:01:50 PM

Quote from: sparker on June 08, 2018, 08:01:07 PM
In regards to the state highway "hatchet" signage, it certainly looks like ODOT simply stocks the raw unnumbered sign and applies the route numbers via adhesive "appliques"; how much care was put into this process (it shouldn't be too difficult for the district shops to cobble up some jigs!) is reflected in the differences in placement, kerning, etc.  In the case of the 165/351 shields on the US 62 approach BGS, it looks like they got lazy on the 165 shield and simply lined up the numbers along the bottom edge; 351 was better centered (vertically) in that regard, but the kerning between the digits is a bit off.  I suppose it depends upon the shop and how the staff is feeling on any particular day! 

On the 165 sign, the shape of OK got elongated vertically. how do you explain that? The route marker design should be standardized with no way to do that

How does this one compare?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36073272726_ec99319660.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WXEXd3)

I worked for the government for 34 years, including five in the Navy. I can imagine a variety of explanations, though they're not necessarily right. The upside-down L as 7 was they ran out of 7's and needed the sign that day. The double post was two guys who didn't know the answer or were told every sign must have at least two posts. A couple of them are just guys who didn't care or were just bad; in either case, it's hard to get fired from the government. Some could even have been monetary decisions. I think they're bad. I sympathize. I can't think of anything you could do though other than vent here.

Quote from: sparkerIn regards to the state highway "hatchet" signage, it certainly looks like ODOT simply stocks the raw unnumbered sign and applies the route numbers via adhesive "appliques"; how much care was put into this process (it shouldn't be too difficult for the district shops to cobble up some jigs!) is reflected in the differences in placement, kerning, etc.  In the case of the 165/351 shields on the US 62 approach BGS, it looks like they got lazy on the 165 shield and simply lined up the numbers along the bottom edge; 351 was better centered (vertically) in that regard, but the kerning between the digits is a bit off.  I suppose it depends upon the shop and how the staff is feeling on any particular day!

I've been doing design work at a commercial sign company for almost 25 years. I see zero excuse for these guys getting it wrong on so many of these signs. Modern software and sign making equipment makes it easier than ever to produce professional looking signs. But it still takes people with talent, attention to details and at least some pride in their work to get it done right.

A bunch of this stuff is merely getting cut out of roll vinyl on a vinyl cutting/plotting machine. It's not like decades in the past where the letters were cut out of aluminum, painted and encrusted with reflective buttons. If I compose a vinyl graphics design in the computer and send it to one of our Graphtec plotters I'm going to cut the entire design on one piece of material. That certainly goes for something like door graphics. You cut the lettering on the vinyl cutter and then you manually "weed" away all the negative material, leaving the letters still on the paper or plastic "carrier" backing material. Then you apply release tape over the weeded lettering. Sometimes pencil lines are drawn on top of the release tape to make it easier for installers to measure from the baselines of the lettering to make sure the graphics go on straight and in the right position. The release tape lifts the vinyl letters off its carrier and then it is applied to the final surface with a plastic squeegee.

Sometimes there is a good amount of vinyl material waste when cutting graphics. That can be a problem if you're cutting vinyl for something big. It might pay to "nest" objects in the design closely together in a vinyl cutting job to save material when they're being run out on the plotter. You cut those objects apart after they're covered with release tape and then position and apply them individually to the sign face, window, vehicle or whatever according to the details in the original layout.

What I think ODOT is doing is they're trying to economize on cut vinyl, be it the white "engineer's grade" vinyl they're using for a bunch of the lettering on green signs or any other color or type of vinyl they use. But they're doing this to an extreme where the sign fabricators are forced to install each letter one at a time. I think they're doing something like running out a sheet of vinyl with hundreds of letter "a" characters and then following that with "b" and "c" and so on. That's the only explanation for how the lettering on these signs can be crooked, badly spaced or even have characters of different sizes in the same word. The method is akin to a cliché of the sociopath making a ransom note out of letters randomly cut from a newspaper. Some fart at ODOT perhaps remembered all the individual stick-on mailbox numbers and letters you could buy at the old Five and Dime stores and thought it would be a good idea for ODOT's sign shop to stock up on sign letters like that!

When it comes to applying vinyl graphics you have to at least apply the lettering in whole words and/or whole lines of copy at the bare minimum. Yeah the space between the letters is going to be wasted material. But the cost of that thrown away vinyl is nothing compared to the time and labor costs of sticking letters to a sign panel one character at a time.

Maybe this crap is one reason why diacritical marks (accents, umlats, etc) are not allowed in US traffic sign lettering. I'd really get a laugh if some manager was making the fabricators cut out and apply letter "i" dots separately from the rest of the letter. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were stupid enough to do that.

Quote from: Brian556On the 165 sign, the shape of OK got elongated vertically. how do you explain that? The route marker design should be standardized with no way to do that

One possibility is a non-DOT sign company producing the work and doing so from non-official artwork. There's a lot of sign makers who honestly just don't give a shit about doing good work. It's just a job and they'll do anything they can to hammer out some crap as fast and cheap as possible. If they don't have the authentic vector-based artwork for a particular job they might just auto-trace something from a bad JPEG image or just hammer out some crap that looks close enough and go with that.

By the way, I really don't like the current design of the Oklahoma state highway marker. It sucks. The size of the state shape, the varying line stroke widths they apply and the way the state shape conflicts with numerals on so many routes is proof enough it's a terrible design.

Years ago I put together this design:



I'm not meaning to toot my own horn too loudly, but this design is a damned sight better. It can work in 2 digit and 3 digit mode with zero problem. There are no space conflicts. And to top it off, the "Oklahoma" letters use the same Eurostile typeface Oklahoma is using on its current state flag. I didn't eyeball this design together either. The elements are set at specific sizes consistent with other highway sign markers. It's basically ready to use if ODOT was ever inclined to do so.

Bobby, I'm going to see if I can find out what system ODOT uses for manufacturing signs.  They used to have each Division do i, but I seem to recall some are now done centrally while the remainder are contracted out.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2018, 09:48:50 PMWhat I think ODOT is doing is they're trying to economize on cut vinyl, be it the white "engineer's grade" vinyl they're using for a bunch of the lettering on green signs or any other color or type of vinyl they use. But they're doing this to an extreme where the sign fabricators are forced to install each letter one at a time. I think they're doing something like running out a sheet of vinyl with hundreds of letter "a" characters and then following that with "b" and "c" and so on. That's the only explanation for how the lettering on these signs can be crooked, badly spaced or even have characters of different sizes in the same word. The method is akin to a cliché of the sociopath making a ransom note out of letters randomly cut from a newspaper. Some fart at ODOT perhaps remembered all the individual stick-on mailbox numbers and letters you could buy at the old Five and Dime stores and thought it would be a good idea for ODOT's sign shop to stock up on sign letters like that!

I'd be surprised if even Oklahoma DOT was using anything less bright than encapsulated-lens (high-intensity) sheeting these days.

The company that makes SignCAD used to sell, and probably still sells, a sign manufacturing package called SignCAM.  It has a subroutine that relies on the mathematics of close packing to construct a cutting pattern that allows letters, shields, and other elements that comprise foreground elements of a sign to be cut out of white sheeting with minimum waste.  Letters are cut individually, at varying orientation.  This represents a cost compromise since microprismatic sheeting has rotational sensitivity (meaning that a given letter may reflect less effectively than the letters before or after it, depending on the angle at which it was cut) but is very expensive on an unit area basis.

I would be very surprised if Oklahoma DOT was using a "parts bin" approach for lettering because newer signs all seem to have direct-applied copy.  This method makes more sense for demountable copy with its own substrate.

Quote from: rte66man on June 10, 2018, 08:48:42 AMBobby, I'm going to see if I can find out what system ODOT uses for manufacturing signs.  They used to have each Division do it, but I seem to recall some are now done centrally while the remainder are contracted out.

I wonder if sign shop tours are possible.  I have little information for Oklahoma, but up here in Kansas KDOT has opted to pare down its in-house sign fabrication capability in favor of issuing procurement contracts for small sign replacements (generally on a district-area basis with each contract having multiple permutations of district and area).

Quote from: rte66man on June 08, 2018, 10:28:25 PM
How does this one compare?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36073272726_ec99319660.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WXEXd3)

When was that picture taken? Is it on the EB/SB turnpike just short of I-40? I haven't been through there in a few months but I don't remember seeing that sign then.

Quote from: rte66man on June 08, 2018, 10:28:25 PM
How does this one compare?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36073272726_ec99319660.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WXEXd3)

Certainly not the worst example of a state highway sign (bugo's probably right about the actual location); although the kerning's a bit of a "wide load" (likely done so that a number wasn't on the left vertical part of the state outline); it's a bit disconcerting to see the "3" outside the outline but the "5" and "1" impinging upon it.  Whatever stick-on numbers they're using, it's likely that there's something of a thin white "buffer" around the numbers so that the state outline doesn't run directly into the integers themselves.  But at least it's quite readable; gets the job done. 

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2018, 09:48:50 PM

I'm not meaning to toot my own horn too loudly, but this design is a damned sight better. It can work in 2 digit and 3 digit mode with zero problem. There are no space conflicts. And to top it off, the "Oklahoma" letters use the same Eurostile typeface Oklahoma is using on its current state flag. I didn't eyeball this design together either. The elements are set at specific sizes consistent with other highway sign markers. It's basically ready to use if ODOT was ever inclined to do so.

I like your design much more than the official one. It's simple things like this that I think would be best left to a public vote, akin to the vote New Zealand recently had for their flag. Officials are morons when it comes to design. Better to pick from a number of submissions and let the public vote on the best one. I'd definitely vote for your design over the current one.

Quote from: bugo on June 10, 2018, 10:30:15 PM

Quote from: rte66man on June 08, 2018, 10:28:25 PM
How does this one compare?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36073272726_ec99319660.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WXEXd3)

When was that picture taken? Is it on the EB/SB turnpike just short of I-40? I haven't been through there in a few months but I don't remember seeing that sign then.

This would be EB 40, I think. The placement is odd, IMO. The END sign should be further back

Quote from: J N WinklerI'd be surprised if even Oklahoma DOT was using anything less bright than encapsulated-lens (high-intensity) sheeting these days.

Around Lawton a bunch of the big green signs on I-44 and Rogers Lane (green signs not so big) looks to me like it's nothing more than common grade plain white reflective vinyl. The stuff has a life span of maybe 2-5 years. I've seen some of these letters crack and peel off the green backgrounds in a short amount of time. They are using the type III high intensity sheeting for the green backgrounds.

Quote from: J N WinklerThe company that makes SignCAD used to sell, and probably still sells, a sign manufacturing package called SignCAM.  It has a subroutine that relies on the mathematics of close packing to construct a cutting pattern that allows letters, shields, and other elements that comprise foreground elements of a sign to be cut out of white sheeting with minimum waste.

A number of sign making applications for computerized routing tables (such as EnRoute) have auto-nesting functions where they can fit as many letters or other graphics objects onto something like a 48" X 96" sheet of .125" aluminum or colored Acrylic. Once those letters are cut out some other kind of aid will be needed to place the letters on the sign surface accurately. Most often a large paper pattern is run out of the vinyl plotter/cutter and used as a registration tool. Unfortunately you can't use that method easily with vinyl lettering. Some other tricks would be needed to let the installer know the baseline and correct rotation/orientation of each individual character. That's a big pain in the ass.

Quote from: J N WinklerI would be very surprised if Oklahoma DOT was using a "parts bin" approach for lettering because newer signs all seem to have direct-applied copy.  This method makes more sense for demountable copy with its own substrate.

Applying whole words and/or whole lines of copy in one pass via a big piece of release tape is a far more efficient method. Layouts can be fine tuned to very exact detail within the computer. I don't know about the various Series Gothic fonts, but Clearview Highway had all the proper spacing tables, kerning pairs, etc built into its font files. It shouldn't be necessary to go measuring spaces between letters after they are cut, release taped and ready to apply to the sign panel.

Quote from: skluthI like your design much more than the official one. It's simple things like this that I think would be best left to a public vote, akin to the vote New Zealand recently had for their flag. Officials are morons when it comes to design. Better to pick from a number of submissions and let the public vote on the best one. I'd definitely vote for your design over the current one.

IMHO, graphic design decisions ought to be left to people who possess enough talent and expertise to get the work done right. It's not appropriate to leave the decisions in the hands of elected officials or the general public. Graphic design, and sign design in particular, is about a whole lot more than just making something look nice. Taste is a very subjective thing. Other issues like legibility, appropriate use of type, color, white space, etc is less subjective.

Quote from: bugo on June 10, 2018, 10:30:15 PM

Quote from: rte66man on June 08, 2018, 10:28:25 PM
How does this one compare?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4322/36073272726_ec99319660.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WXEXd3)

When was that picture taken? Is it on the EB/SB turnpike just short of I-40? I haven't been through there in a few months but I don't remember seeing that sign then.

Eastbound I40 just after you pass under the EB OK351 overpass.  It was taken about 3 years ago.

Quote from: rte66man on June 13, 2018, 09:07:59 PM
Eastbound I40 just after you pass under the EB OK351 overpass.  It was taken about 3 years ago.

The angle is odd. That's why I didn't recognize it. I know where it is. I'll see if it's still there later today.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2018, 09:48:50 PM

By the way, I really don't like the current design of the Oklahoma state highway marker. It sucks.

Years ago I put together this design:

(https://i.imgur.com/eJXcrRR.png)

I'm not meaning to toot my own horn too loudly, but this design is a damned sight better. It can work in 2 digit and 3 digit mode with zero problem. There are no space conflicts. And to top it off, the "Oklahoma" letters use the same Eurostile typeface Oklahoma is using on its current state flag. I didn't eyeball this design together either. The elements are set at specific sizes consistent with other highway sign markers. It's basically ready to use if ODOT was ever inclined to do so.

Not bad, especially since it doesn't involve colors or special graphics.  I really wish TX would get out of the "boring square" rut.  Maybe a lone-star or some use of the state flag, since the FMs/RMs already use the state shape.

Quote from: txstateends on June 14, 2018, 08:56:38 PM

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2018, 09:48:50 PM

By the way, I really don't like the current design of the Oklahoma state highway marker. It sucks.

Years ago I put together this design:

(https://i.imgur.com/eJXcrRR.png)

I'm not meaning to toot my own horn too loudly, but this design is a damned sight better. It can work in 2 digit and 3 digit mode with zero problem. There are no space conflicts. And to top it off, the "Oklahoma" letters use the same Eurostile typeface Oklahoma is using on its current state flag. I didn't eyeball this design together either. The elements are set at specific sizes consistent with other highway sign markers. It's basically ready to use if ODOT was ever inclined to do so.

Not bad, especially since it doesn't involve colors or special graphics.  I really wish TX would get out of the "boring square" rut.  Maybe a lone-star or some use of the state flag, since the FMs/RMs already use the state shape.

Years ago, they did use the "Lone Star"
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Old_Texas_3.svg/150px-Old_Texas_3.svg.png)
(from wikipedia)

Quote from: US71 on June 14, 2018, 09:52:45 PM

Quote from: txstateends on June 14, 2018, 08:56:38 PM

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2018, 09:48:50 PM

By the way, I really don't like the current design of the Oklahoma state highway marker. It sucks.

Years ago I put together this design:

(https://i.imgur.com/eJXcrRR.png)

I'm not meaning to toot my own horn too loudly, but this design is a damned sight better. It can work in 2 digit and 3 digit mode with zero problem. There are no space conflicts. And to top it off, the "Oklahoma" letters use the same Eurostile typeface Oklahoma is using on its current state flag. I didn't eyeball this design together either. The elements are set at specific sizes consistent with other highway sign markers. It's basically ready to use if ODOT was ever inclined to do so.

Not bad, especially since it doesn't involve colors or special graphics.  I really wish TX would get out of the "boring square" rut.  Maybe a lone-star or some use of the state flag, since the FMs/RMs already use the state shape.

Years ago, they did use the "Lone Star"
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Old_Texas_3.svg/150px-Old_Texas_3.svg.png)
(from wikipedia)

Looks good on a computer screen. Legibility problems at speed.

Quote from: TXtoNJ on June 15, 2018, 10:48:48 AM

Quote from: US71 on June 14, 2018, 09:52:45 PM
Years ago, they did use the "Lone Star"
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Old_Texas_3.svg/150px-Old_Texas_3.svg.png)
(from wikipedia)

Looks good on a computer screen. Legibility problems at speed.

It could be set up more like the New Mexico zia shield whereby the star points are a bit flatter and closer to the edge providing for a larger number space.

The old Lone Star shield design worked pretty well, just so long as the route number had only a single digit. 2 digits was a tight squeeze. 3 digits was just asking for all sorts of illegible trouble.

I would like to see TX DOT come up with a more imaginable state highway route marker. They could probably stick with the square/rectangular shape. But I think a decorative feature (such as a silhouette of the Alamo in the bottom center, or maybe a bouquet of bluebonnets) would make an otherwise plain state highway marker seem more special.

from ODOT's website:

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/traffic/traffic2009/trf_std_2009-120.pdf

Detail sheet on what the sign standards are.

Quote from: Brandon on June 15, 2018, 12:48:08 PM

Quote from: TXtoNJ on June 15, 2018, 10:48:48 AM

Quote from: US71 on June 14, 2018, 09:52:45 PM
Years ago, they did use the "Lone Star"
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Old_Texas_3.svg/150px-Old_Texas_3.svg.png)
(from wikipedia)

Looks good on a computer screen. Legibility problems at speed.

It could be set up more like the New Mexico zia shield whereby the star points are a bit flatter and closer to the edge providing for a larger number space.

NM also super sizes their shields for 3d and 4d state routes.