PewTrusts.org: Toll Collectors: A Disappearing Breed (http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2015/07/24/toll-collectors-a-disappearing-breed)
QuoteRemember when drivers would pull up to a toll booth, hand cash to a toll collector and wait for the gate to rise so they could pass?
QuoteThose days are fast becoming a thing of the past as a growing number of states demolish toll booths and switch to electronic, cashless tolling systems, such as E-ZPass. And so are the jobs of many of the men and women who collect tolls.
QuoteStates and quasi-governmental road authorities, which increasingly are turning to tolls for some highway and bridge repair and maintenance, have followed the lead of private industry and replaced people with new technology in search of greater efficiency, better customer service and more cost savings.
QuoteTransportation officials say electronic tolling improves driver safety and traffic flow, saves taxpayer dollars and reduces pollution by cutting fuel consumption. Critics say it invades people's privacy, discriminates against low-income drivers and sometimes results in motorists being erroneously charged hefty fees and penalties.
Reminds me of this story I saw recently: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/20/toll-booth-worker-florida-sam-samsonov/30405051/
I'm torn about this. Yeah, it was a decent paying job that took little to no effort to master (and secure with a pension to boot). OTOH, think of the toll on one's health, sitting in that toll booth, breathing in considerable amounts of car, truck, and bus exhaust.
This may be one of those jobs that hardly anyone will truly miss.
Quote from: brad2971 on July 28, 2015, 02:26:48 AM
I'm torn about this. Yeah, it was a decent paying job that took little to no effort to master (and secure with a pension to boot). OTOH, think of the toll on one's health, sitting in that toll booth, breathing in considerable amounts of car, truck, and bus exhaust.
This may be one of those jobs that hardly anyone will truly miss.
Don't forget about hearing loss from when the cars and trucks roared out of the toll plaza, the noises echoing around the metal surroundings into the 3x6 foot booth.
One thing to keep in mind here. With many toll facilities out there, the original plans were to eliminate the tolls booths once the bonds that built the facilities were paid off. More often than not, and for reasons that would be several threads among themselves, such did not happen for many of the facilities.
Long story short, and no disrespect towards anybody that's in the profession, toll collectors have been on borrowed time for quite a while (decades in many instances). AET conversions may indeed be finally sealing that fate.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 28, 2015, 09:11:28 AM
One thing to keep in mind here. With many toll facilities out there, the original plans were to eliminate the tolls booths once the bonds that built the facilities were paid off. More often than not, and for reasons that would be several threads among themselves, such did not happen for many of the facilities.
Long story short, and no disrespect towards anybody that's in the profession, toll collectors have been on borrowed time for quite a while (decades in many instances). AET conversions may indeed be finally sealing that fate.
The NJ Turnpike Authority has been very gracious in allowing the toll collectors to stick around, albeit at greatly reduced salaries. The DRPA has talked about removing the collectors at the CBB & BRB and going AET, but they are so inept that even the relatively simple chore of installing Express EZ Pass that they haven't done that yet, after years of talking about doing it.
One benefit to KYTC running Kentucky's toll roads was that the toll collectors had a place to land as the tolls came off our parkways. We had two former toll collectors from the old Daniel Boone Parkway in our office (one retired, and the other got fired after she went to a local store and got caught shoplifting while she was supposed to be at work). One got her CDL and is working as an equipment operator in one of our counties. The PIO in the Somerset office is a former toll collector on the Cumberland Parkway.
Classic Illinois toll signs before the Open Road system. We still have a couple of manuals around with the updated system.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.okroads.com%2F071205%2Fi90ilattp_02.JPG&hash=20ff75a75f4a0dd42971aeb43c07546efad55f20)
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Employment/SeasonalTollCollectorInternshipProgram.aspx
MassDOT still has an internship program for toll collectors. Definitely need to ensure that the future tolls collectors of the world have a place they can get started at.
Quote from: SectorZ on July 28, 2015, 02:58:40 PM
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Employment/SeasonalTollCollectorInternshipProgram.aspx
MassDOT still has an internship program for toll collectors. Definitely need to ensure that the future tolls collectors of the world have a place they can get started at.
and with union dues included, so they can learn how to call in sick on busy days!
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/04/massachusetts_turnpike_changes.html
Most interstates and int'l bridges seem to still have toll booths with collectors. It seems to me like the newer tolled state highways are the ones that do everything electronically. In Canada I know that 407 in Toronto collects tolls electronically. I don't know about the rest of the toll roads and bridges in Canada. In Mexico I think it might be a law that all toll roads have toll collectors.
^ The new Port Mann Bridge near Vancouver BC uses all-electronic tolling.
The Selmon Crosstown Expressway (FL 618) was converted from cash collecting to all-electronic tolling, and I believe the express lanes were constructed with only all-electronic tolling. Also, lots of toll roads in southeast Florida have had cash collection eliminated. I think it still exists on the Sawgrass Expressway (FL 869) but it's been a while since I've been in the area.
Quote from: Ace10 on July 28, 2015, 05:32:45 PM
^ The new Port Mann Bridge near Vancouver BC uses all-electronic tolling.
The Selmon Crosstown Expressway (FL 618) was converted from cash collecting to all-electronic tolling, and I believe the express lanes were constructed with only all-electronic tolling. Also, lots of toll roads in southeast Florida have had cash collection eliminated. I think it still exists on the Sawgrass Expressway (FL 869) but it's been a while since I've been in the area.
The Sawgrass Expressway converted to AET just before I moved away in August 2014.
The Tacoma Narrows Bridge (eastbound span, built 2007) has the only toll booth in the state. I don't get why WSDOT even bothered including one when their other toll projects are all electronic/mail.
The only toll collectors the NTTA uses now are the customer service reps at their HQ in Plano to collect after the fact (or to sell you a TollTag beforehand), since all their tollroads are electronic now. There are still non-TollTag lanes at both ends of DFW Airport, though.
Quote from: SectorZ on July 28, 2015, 02:58:40 PM
http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Employment/SeasonalTollCollectorInternshipProgram.aspx
MassDOT still has an internship program for toll collectors. Definitely need to ensure that the future tolls collectors of the world have a place they can get started at.
Er, no they don't. Look at the dates.
PA Turnpike still has toll booth collectors, but that's due to how slow the replacement process is going. For me, it would be really hard to get used to those new toll gantries. Where I was born (Southern North Carolina, Lumberton), there was no toll road. Even my present place? It's still hard to grasp the news (PA Turnpike is about 25-26 miles away).
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 29, 2015, 01:58:10 PM(PA Turnpike is about 52-53 miles away).
Assuming Chambersburg is your current location; the PA Turnpike's roughly 30-35 miles away via I-81 and roughly 25 miles away via PA 997.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 29, 2015, 03:25:59 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 29, 2015, 01:58:10 PM(PA Turnpike is about 52-53 miles away).
Assuming Chambersburg is your current location; the PA Turnpike's roughly 30-35 miles away via I-81 and roughly 25 miles away via PA 997.
Have you seen his suggestions of alternate routes? :-D
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 29, 2015, 03:25:59 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 29, 2015, 01:58:10 PM(PA Turnpike is about 52-53 miles away).
Assuming Chambersburg is your current location; the PA Turnpike's roughly 30-35 miles away via I-81 and roughly 25 miles away via PA 997.
Oops! I measured from the MD state line instead of Chambersburg :-D
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 29, 2015, 01:58:10 PM
PA Turnpike still has toll booth collectors, but that's due to how slow the replacement process is going. For me, it would be really hard to get used to those new toll gantries. Where I was born (Southern North Carolina, Lumberton), there was no toll road. Even my present place? It's still hard to grasp the news (PA Turnpike is about 25-26 miles away).
Honestly, the concept of tolling while having to stop at a booth was quite odd to me when I first experienced it back in 2008/9. Before then, I lived near the very first electronic tolling highway in the world (ON 407) and was quite used to electronic tolling by then. I remember my parents sticking a "transponder" through the sun roof in our car, so that the little gizmo on the gantry could "read it". We would get our bill in the mail, and that was that.
The fact that the US is phasing out old style tolling isn't surprising; to me it's always been odd seeing it in this day and age.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 28, 2015, 11:31:57 AM
One benefit to KYTC running Kentucky's toll roads was that the toll collectors had a place to land as the tolls came off our parkways. We had two former toll collectors from the old Daniel Boone Parkway in our office (one retired, and the other got fired after she went to a local store and got caught shoplifting while she was supposed to be at work). One got her CDL and is working as an equipment operator in one of our counties. The PIO in the Somerset office is a former toll collector on the Cumberland Parkway.
Any new tolls involving Kentucky now (Ohio River crossings) will be all-electronic, right?
Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 29, 2015, 10:19:54 PMThe fact that the US is phasing out old style tolling isn't surprising; to me it's always been odd seeing it in this day and age.
Do keep in mind that most toll facilities in the US have been around for
decades. In contrast, E-ZPass or equivalent have only been around since the late 90s/early 2000s(?) and the majority of those installations were
retrofitted onto existing facilities.
One also has the issue of the
loss of jobs among toll-takers (the premise of this thread). IMHO,
that could be one reason why AET implementation/conversions
seems a bit sluggish. In some instances, many toll-takers are either friends or relatives of prominent politicians and phasing out/retiring those workers alone can be a daunting/politically risky task (but that's another topic for another forum).
Overall the phase-out/retirement of toll collectors is another example of machines/electronics taking over manual labor.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 29, 2015, 10:19:54 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 29, 2015, 01:58:10 PM
PA Turnpike still has toll booth collectors, but that's due to how slow the replacement process is going. For me, it would be really hard to get used to those new toll gantries. Where I was born (Southern North Carolina, Lumberton), there was no toll road. Even my present place? It's still hard to grasp the news (PA Turnpike is about 25-26 miles away).
Honestly, the concept of tolling while having to stop at a booth was quite odd to me when I first experienced it back in 2008/9. Before then, I lived near the very first electronic tolling highway in the world (ON 407) and was quite used to electronic tolling by then. I remember my parents sticking a "transponder" through the sun roof in our car, so that the little gizmo on the gantry could "read it". We would get our bill in the mail, and that was that.
The fact that the US is phasing out old style tolling isn't surprising; to me it's always been odd seeing it in this day and age.
Change takes time. (much of this is what PHLBOS posted while I was typing!)
In areas and states that haven't used toll plazas in the past, they almost build new toll roads with all electronic tolling. But in states where cash was king, they are very slow in removing them. Some of it has to deal with unions and such, but another part of it deals with the public, many of whom refuse to get an EZ Pass (or other electronic toll payment device). Most agencies have done a good job in installing Express Lanes where feasible, although some, such as MDTA, are lagging wayyyy behind in doing so, seemingly without reason.
Over time it will happen, but any timeline that existed years ago has probably been missed. Some agencies do have future goals set for going AET, but they are frequently subjected to being pushed back.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 30, 2015, 10:38:06 AM
Overall the phase-out/retirement of toll collectors is another example of machines/electronics taking over manual labor.
I always wonder how many people are employed due to electronic tolling. Those systems don't program, build, maintain, and upgrade themselves.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 30, 2015, 10:40:47 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 30, 2015, 10:38:06 AM
Overall the phase-out/retirement of toll collectors is another example of machines/electronics taking over manual labor.
I always wonder how many people are employed due to electronic tolling. Those systems don't program, build, maintain, and upgrade themselves.
Wild guess but nowhere near the same number of people required to collect tolls at individual booths.
Additionally, working with electronic tolling systems (per your description) requires a different set of skills. Not that existing toll collectors couldn't be trained/retrained for such; but a toll plaza currently requiring (for example) 20 toll collectors does not need 20 people for an all-AET set-up.
I was noticing though that the Kansas Turnpike hires young girls to collect tolls. Not high school young, but college young as the girl who collected at the I-135 exit was a girl that most guys I am sure are chasing while in school LOL! Nonetheless I seen it back in 2001 where the girl who issued my ticket at Emporia was cute, but too young for me as I was 36 at the time and she had to be 23 or something.
I know that their days are numbered with the push to get all ORT on every toll facility nationwide which is why the fad is going to answer the OP.
At least on the days of me working the NJ Turnpike, they would take nearly anyone who applied to be a part timer or temp worker to collect tolls. The turnover is awesomely high...most people can't deal with being in a small booth in the middle of a highway dealing with the travelling public. The ones that stick it out past 2 weeks will generally be there until they decide to give it up; could be months, could be years.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 30, 2015, 11:48:12 AM
At least on the days of me working the NJ Turnpike, they would take nearly anyone who applied to be a part timer or temp worker to collect tolls. The turnover is awesomely high...most people can't deal with being in a small booth in the middle of a highway dealing with the travelling public. The ones that stick it out past 2 weeks will generally be there until they decide to give it up; could be months, could be years.
Telemarketing is another one. You have to make x amount of sales to keep you job, and to get those sales you must get hung up on, cursed at, or threatened by people while making phone calls, so many quit or be fired after a few weeks.
Serving in a Restaurant is another one, as most people cannot deal with low tips and hard work these days, so many leave after about two weeks as well. Department stores that pay you draw verses commission is another as if you do not make enough sales, you cannot cover your salary and therefore the stores charge you for it and you must make it up on future sales. This is also incentive to leave real soon either voluntarily or not.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 30, 2015, 11:55:00 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 30, 2015, 11:48:12 AM
At least on the days of me working the NJ Turnpike, they would take nearly anyone who applied to be a part timer or temp worker to collect tolls. The turnover is awesomely high...most people can't deal with being in a small booth in the middle of a highway dealing with the travelling public. The ones that stick it out past 2 weeks will generally be there until they decide to give it up; could be months, could be years.
Telemarketing is another one. You have to make x amount of sales to keep you job, and to get those sales you must get hung up on, cursed at, or threatened by people while making phone calls, so many quit or be fired after a few weeks.
Serving in a Restaurant is another one, as most people cannot deal with low tips and hard work these days, so many leave after about two weeks as well. Department stores that pay you draw verses commission is another as if you do not make enough sales, you cannot cover your salary and therefore the stores charge you for it and you must make it up on future sales. This is also incentive to leave real soon either voluntarily or not.
It's very common to see Facebook posts from friends talking about their crappy nights or tables that didn't leave a tip. Yet, they will pay their way thru college, get a car, etc, all while serving tables for years, and never once will I see a story about the good tippers!
Let us not forget the other business that had to let go a lot of employees when toll roads either converted to AET or when transponders reduced the need for coin fares: The armored car business. I would safely guess that many of the busier toll plazas got more money than most suburban banks in a day.
I wonder how often armored vehicles had to visit every toll plaza to collect all the money dropped in the baskets or how much change they needed to bring for the toll takers. It's not like Judy in booth #2 could take the day's incoming tolls and place it in a bank bag inside an unmarked paper bag to take to the bank each night.
Quote from: thenetwork on July 30, 2015, 03:36:09 PM
Let us not forget the other business that had to let go a lot of employees when toll roads either converted to AET or when transponders reduced the need for coin fares: The armored car business. I would safely guess that many of the busier toll plazas got more money than most suburban banks in a day.
I wonder how often armored vehicles had to visit every toll plaza to collect all the money dropped in the baskets or how much change they needed to bring for the toll takers. It's not like Judy in booth #2 could take the day's incoming tolls and place it in a bank bag inside an unmarked paper bag to take to the bank each night.
If it's anything like the NJ Turnpike, it's probably once a day. (Honestly, I'm not even sure who picked up the money, if it was someone employed by the Turnpike or an armored trucking company). But as long as there's one cash booth open, they'll still stop by - they wouldn't want that money just sitting there at the building...even if it is a small plaza with minimal cash.
I'm not sure how many employees would be let go though...we're probably talking a few people per toll road. And they have other accounts - Service area money would still need to be collected, for example.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 30, 2015, 10:38:06 AM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 29, 2015, 10:19:54 PMThe fact that the US is phasing out old style tolling isn't surprising; to me it's always been odd seeing it in this day and age.
Do keep in mind that most toll facilities in the US have been around for decades. In contrast, E-ZPass or equivalent have only been around since the late 90s/early 2000s(?) and the majority of those installations were retrofitted onto existing facilities.
One also has the issue of the loss of jobs among toll-takers (the premise of this thread). IMHO, that could be one reason why AET implementation/conversions seems a bit sluggish. In some instances, many toll-takers are either friends or relatives of prominent politicians and phasing out/retiring those workers alone can be a daunting/politically risky task (but that's another topic for another forum).
Overall the phase-out/retirement of toll collectors is another example of machines/electronics taking over manual labor.
You just started me thinking of this song:
https://youtu.be/uglWkf8fkGo
I just considered getting an E-Z Pass for the first time. I clicked on the page from NYC (https://www.e-zpassny.com/en/signup/facility.shtml), and when they asked about your residency I clicked on Florida and they redirected me to the Virginia DOT's E-Z Pass page. I only hope you don't have to have money in a Virginia bank to get one.
Alaska residents are redirected to the Illinois E-Z Pass page, and so are Alabama residents.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 30, 2015, 12:12:02 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 30, 2015, 11:55:00 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 30, 2015, 11:48:12 AM
At least on the days of me working the NJ Turnpike, they would take nearly anyone who applied to be a part timer or temp worker to collect tolls. The turnover is awesomely high...most people can't deal with being in a small booth in the middle of a highway dealing with the travelling public. The ones that stick it out past 2 weeks will generally be there until they decide to give it up; could be months, could be years.
Telemarketing is another one. You have to make x amount of sales to keep you job, and to get those sales you must get hung up on, cursed at, or threatened by people while making phone calls, so many quit or be fired after a few weeks.
Serving in a Restaurant is another one, as most people cannot deal with low tips and hard work these days, so many leave after about two weeks as well. Department stores that pay you draw verses commission is another as if you do not make enough sales, you cannot cover your salary and therefore the stores charge you for it and you must make it up on future sales. This is also incentive to leave real soon either voluntarily or not.
It's very common to see Facebook posts from friends talking about their crappy nights or tables that didn't leave a tip. Yet, they will pay their way thru college, get a car, etc, all while serving tables for years, and never once will I see a story about the good tippers!
Oh yes, there are good tippers do not get me wrong. I was referring to the many who do not stay around to put themselves through college. I have worked with some who are just plain lazy and not willing to take the bad with the good and they end up quitting before the tough get tougher.
Then you have those who work for years serving tables who complain constantly at the 100 dollar check, who leaves 5 bucks. That was who I was referring to.
Just go into Red Lobster or Olive Garden and see how fast turnover is for servers. Yeah you may get a lot of persons staying a while, but you will get the same amount leaving with new faces coming in each week.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on July 30, 2015, 06:02:13 PM
....
I just considered getting an E-Z Pass for the first time. I clicked on the page from NYC (https://www.e-zpassny.com/en/signup/facility.shtml), and when they asked about your residency I clicked on Florida and they redirected me to the Virginia DOT's E-Z Pass page. I only hope you don't have to have money in a Virginia bank to get one.
Alaska residents are redirected to the Illinois E-Z Pass page, and so are Alabama residents.
You do not need money in a Virginia bank. I live in Virginia but I didn't give them my bank account information. It charges my American Express card when it's time to replenish the balance.
I have not looked at their terms and conditions in a while, but if you live in Florida and are considering an E-ZPass, you may wish to explore the North Carolina QuickPass. They have a device that's compatible with both E-ZPass and SunPass. Might be more convenient for you. I explored it a while back because I have two E-ZPasses for our three cars and a SunPass Mjni in the car I drive most often, so I thought replacing one E-ZPass and the SunPass with the Quick Pass might be more convenient. I ultimately didn't do it because there was something I disliked about their terms and conditions, but I do not remember what it was. You might not have the same issue, though.
I thought about this, but what seems to be even more of a disappearing breed than human toll collectors are the automatic toll collection machines where coins are thrown into a basket and counted automatically. These machines had a disadvantage that most of them only accepted coins and not bills. For bridges and tunnels these machines were impractical since most drivers don't want to carry such large amounts of change.
With electronic tolling there will be much less of a back up thanksgiving weekend at the south end of the NJTP
Quote from: jwolfer on October 09, 2015, 04:31:11 PM
With electronic tolling there will be much less of a back up thanksgiving weekend at the south end of the NJTP
During the '90s and in the days before FastLane/E-ZPass; the toll collectors at the Mass Pike would just wave motorists through the booths during peak holiday travel periods (& not collect tolls).
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 09, 2015, 03:54:44 PM
I thought about this, but what seems to be even more of a disappearing breed than human toll collectors are the automatic toll collection machines where coins are thrown into a basket and counted automatically. These machines had a disadvantage that most of them only accepted coins and not bills. For bridges and tunnels these machines were impractical since most drivers don't want to carry such large amounts of change.
Don't worry, they're on most ramp plazas of the Illinois Tollway system in addition to I-Pass (which is at
every ramp plaza on the system). Only about 15% (or less) of users use these coin baskets.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 09, 2015, 05:42:19 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on October 09, 2015, 04:31:11 PM
With electronic tolling there will be much less of a back up thanksgiving weekend at the south end of the NJTP
During the '90s and in the days before FastLane/E-ZPass; the toll collectors at the Mass Pike would just wave motorists through the booths during peak holiday travel periods (& not collect tolls).
Was this sanctioned by management (to prevent backups)–or more along the lines of the lazy fast food workers who turn off the outside lights half an hour early hoping that nobody comes in?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 30, 2015, 10:40:47 AM
I always wonder how many people are employed due to electronic tolling. Those systems don't program, build, maintain, and upgrade themselves.
True, but the number of people needed is fewer than for cash collection. Savings on labor costs are one of the major arguments in favor of electronic toll collection, after all.
At this point in time there are several items which potentially get in the way of toll roads going all-electronic:
1) The fact that it eliminates jobs can make it politically controversial
2) If a large percentage of vehicles using the road do not have a transponder it becomes incredibly cumbersome to handle billing for all the video tolls. This creates a heavy administrative burden by needing to send so many bills in the mail and process their payment.
3) In some jurisdictions there is no reliable legal mechanism in place to enforce payment of video tolls.
4) There is an upfront capital cost associated with the conversion that the responsible agency may not have the cash on hand to do, or they might not consider it a priority compared to more vital repairs.
5) Government agencies (at least in the US) are often slow to embrace change. Never underestimate the power of "we've been doing it this way for 80 years since this bridge was built, why should we change now?".
Many of these problems affect conversions more than new roads. Any completely new toll roads built at this point usually are all-electronic... although there are exceptions. Item number 2 is why the new A-30 bridge in Valleyfield, QC has cash lanes. A lot of non-local traffic and no regional transponder system in place that non-locals will already have.
Quote from: briantroutman on October 09, 2015, 06:07:10 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 09, 2015, 05:42:19 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on October 09, 2015, 04:31:11 PM
With electronic tolling there will be much less of a back up thanksgiving weekend at the south end of the NJTP
During the '90s and in the days before FastLane/E-ZPass; the toll collectors at the Mass Pike would just wave motorists through the booths during peak holiday travel periods (& not collect tolls).
Was this sanctioned by management (to prevent backups)—or more along the lines of the lazy fast food workers who turn off the outside lights half an hour early hoping that nobody comes in?
This would be more like a lazy fast food worker just handing out food for a half hour, and management wondering where all the food went without any money collected.
It would be noticed real quick, that a busy toll plaza suddenly had a lane (or lanes) where traffic sped thru, axles being counted within the lane, and no money being rung in.
Whenever cars are waved thru the plaza, it would be sanctioned very high up the totem pole - usually a commissioner or director - and there would be extraordinary circumstances, such as a traffic jam miles or hours long.
Quote from: jwolfer on October 09, 2015, 04:31:11 PM
With electronic tolling there will be much less of a back up thanksgiving weekend at the south end of the NJTP
The NJ Turnpike's Interchange 1 has had express EZ Pass lanes since 2004, and has never experienced a significant backup since.
Whenever there's a backup in the toll plaza area, it has nothing to do with the NJ Turnpike...it's usually an issue with the Delaware Memorial Bridge, or 295 to 95 in Delaware (unless there's an accident, of course).
Quote from: Duke87 on October 09, 2015, 06:29:28 PM
1) The fact that it eliminates jobs can make it politically controversial
I know I've stated this before, but when Kentucky eliminated tolls, all the employees were absorbed into other departments of KYTC or other state agencies. We had one who was a custodian at our office (until she got into trouble and got fired) and another who worked in accounts until she retired. Another got her CDL and became an equipment operator at one of our garages.
Quote5) Government agencies (at least in the US) are often slow to embrace change. Never underestimate the power of "we've been doing it this way for 80 years since this bridge was built, why should we change now?".
This is an area where politics can become involved, especially in Kentucky. I witnessed it firsthand. The Democrats held the governorship in Kentucky from 1971 until 2003. That's 32 years in which the Democrats controlled patronage hiring in state government and built up a bloc of loyalists in administrative positions. When a Republican was elected in 2003, the entrenched bureaucracy was very resistant to the changes the new administration wanted to make -- so much so that someone made up buttons with a slash through the words "but we've always done it this way." Four years later, when the Democrats took back over, many of the changes implemented during the previous four years were reversed and went back to the old way of doing things.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 30, 2015, 11:41:29 AM
I was noticing though that the Kansas Turnpike hires young girls to collect tolls. Not high school young, but college young as the girl who collected at the I-135 exit was a girl that most guys I am sure are chasing while in school LOL! Nonetheless I seen it back in 2001 where the girl who issued my ticket at Emporia was cute, but too young for me as I was 36 at the time and she had to be 23 or something.
I know that their days are numbered with the push to get all ORT on every toll facility nationwide which is why the fad is going to answer the OP.
Where do they go when I'm using the Turnpike?? I've never once had a cute young gal take my toll, Kansas or anywhere else.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 30, 2015, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 30, 2015, 10:40:47 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 30, 2015, 10:38:06 AM
Overall the phase-out/retirement of toll collectors is another example of machines/electronics taking over manual labor.
I always wonder how many people are employed due to electronic tolling. Those systems don't program, build, maintain, and upgrade themselves.
Wild guess but nowhere near the same number of people required to collect tolls at individual booths.
Additionally, working with electronic tolling systems (per your description) requires a different set of skills. Not that existing toll collectors couldn't be trained/retrained for such; but a toll plaza currently requiring (for example) 20 toll collectors does not need 20 people for an all-AET set-up.
There's peripheral manpower at play, too, that people might not think about. My boss, for example, has to deal with toll violations for company trucks in other states. He's not a toll collector, but his workload affects my company's manpower; add up enough people like him across a region, and the number of man-hours might be significant.
Quote from: briantroutman on October 09, 2015, 06:07:10 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 09, 2015, 05:42:19 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on October 09, 2015, 04:31:11 PM
With electronic tolling there will be much less of a back up thanksgiving weekend at the south end of the NJTP
During the '90s and in the days before FastLane/E-ZPass; the toll collectors at the Mass Pike would just wave motorists through the booths during peak holiday travel periods (& not collect tolls).
Was this sanctioned by management (to prevent backups)–or more along the lines of the lazy fast food workers who turn off the outside lights half an hour early hoping that nobody comes in?
All kidding aside; the reason was indeed the former.
How do they do in in China?: (Photo by Daily Mail in the UK)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2015%2F10%2F07%2F13%2F2D29604B00000578-3263440-image-a-25_1444219538976.jpg&hash=923634930a35fc2f858b38a73ba9d74ed11a2998)
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 10, 2015, 02:28:58 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on October 09, 2015, 06:07:10 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 09, 2015, 05:42:19 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on October 09, 2015, 04:31:11 PM
With electronic tolling there will be much less of a back up thanksgiving weekend at the south end of the NJTP
During the '90s and in the days before FastLane/E-ZPass; the toll collectors at the Mass Pike would just wave motorists through the booths during peak holiday travel periods (& not collect tolls).
Was this sanctioned by management (to prevent backups)–or more along the lines of the lazy fast food workers who turn off the outside lights half an hour early hoping that nobody comes in?
All kidding aside; the reason was indeed the former.
Yep, I was waved through a Pike toll plaza once or twice because of traffic management...but long ago.
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
A very surprisingly low number -- especially around here with all the commuters between Albany and Schenectady that could be saving a decent amount of money with the 30-mile plan the Thruway offers.
You do notice more people using the E-ZPass lanes in NYC.
Quote from: Rothman on October 12, 2015, 11:30:02 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
A very surprisingly low number -- especially around here with all the commuters between Albany and Schenectady that could be saving a decent amount of money with the 30-mile plan the Thruway offers.
You do notice more people using the E-ZPass lanes in NYC.
Forget the cost, it's just easier to go through the EZPass lane. I couldn't imagine driving around, seeing people go through the EZPass lane and NOT thinking, "gee it would be easier if I had one of those." I couldn't imagine stopping in every single toll booth along the Maine and Spaulding Turnpikes when I head down to Boston, such a time waster.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
ISTHA says that over 85% of their customers have an I-Pass or E-Z Pass.
Quote from: Brandon on October 13, 2015, 07:09:20 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
ISTHA says that over 85% of their customers have an I-Pass or E-Z Pass.
I find that very hard to believe.
Quote from: Rothman on October 13, 2015, 08:06:32 AM
Quote from: Brandon on October 13, 2015, 07:09:20 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
ISTHA says that over 85% of their customers have an I-Pass or E-Z Pass.
I find that very hard to believe.
What's very interesting is that, from what I can tell, their annual financial report never breaks down the toll revenue for cash and electronic tolling.
http://www.illinoistollway.com/documents/10157/e37922c6-1664-4dd9-9a7c-3ae899183a87
The report is 250 pages long, and not once could I find something that indicates how many transaction are done electronically.
Quote from: Rothman on October 13, 2015, 08:06:32 AM
Quote from: Brandon on October 13, 2015, 07:09:20 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
ISTHA says that over 85% of their customers have an I-Pass or E-Z Pass.
I find that very hard to believe.
http://www.illinoistollway.com/tolls-and-i-pass/about-i-pass
QuoteMore than 87 percent of Tollway customers use I-PASS.
http://www.illinoistollway.com/documents/10157/15874/I-PASS+Facts+Figures+and+History
Quote from: Rothman on October 12, 2015, 11:30:02 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
A very surprisingly low number -- especially around here with all the commuters between Albany and Schenectady that could be saving a decent amount of money with the 30-mile plan the Thruway offers.
You do notice more people using the E-ZPass lanes in NYC.
People who do not frequently pay tolls very often lack an EZpass account since they don't see it as worth the bother. A visitor driving a rental car would be well justified in paying cash rather than dealing with the rental agency's crazy fees to use their tag (if the rental place even offers one). It also can be difficult to maintain an EZpass account if you don't have a credit card since the other methods of payment are less convenient.
Of course, yes, there are people who pay tolls regularly and still refuse to get an EZpass for one reason or another. Some people are too lazy to expend the effort to set up an account. Some people don't want to put a device in their car that the government can use to track their movements. Some people are stubborn and insist that paying cash ain't broke so why fix it (this reasoning delayed my parents signing up for EZpass for several years). Some people like interacting with human toll collectors and don't want to eliminate that experience. And some people dislike electronic toll collection on principle because they don't want to see toll collectors' jobs eliminated.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 13, 2015, 08:05:12 PM
Of course, yes, there are people who pay tolls regularly and still refuse to get an EZpass for one reason or another. Some people are too lazy to expend the effort to set up an account. Some people don't want to put a device in their car that the government can use to track their movements. Some people are stubborn and insist that paying cash ain't broke so why fix it (this reasoning delayed my parents signing up for EZpass for several years). Some people like interacting with human toll collectors and don't want to eliminate that experience. And some people dislike electronic toll collection on principle because they don't want to see toll collectors' jobs eliminated.
Not much point around here as you save 50% over not having a transponder. Those tolls can add up, and cash tolls at mainline plazas can be anywhere from $1.50 to $3.80 a plaza. The transponder cuts that to $0.75 to $1.90 per mainline plaza. Even for the occasional tollway user, the transponder makes economic sense. ISTHA does not charge a monthly fee, and they only require a refundable $10 deposit. If you use it occasionally, then you sink $30 at the start, $10 deposit and $20 in prepaid tolls.
As it is, I passed by a few mainline toll plazas today, and barely anyone was in the manual (cash) lanes. The vast majority of folks, including semi trucks, went straight through the ORT lanes at the speed limit (55 mph) or above.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 13, 2015, 08:05:12 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 12, 2015, 11:30:02 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
A very surprisingly low number -- especially around here with all the commuters between Albany and Schenectady that could be saving a decent amount of money with the 30-mile plan the Thruway offers.
You do notice more people using the E-ZPass lanes in NYC.
People who do not frequently pay tolls very often lack an EZpass account since they don't see it as worth the bother. A visitor driving a rental car would be well justified in paying cash rather than dealing with the rental agency's crazy fees to use their tag (if the rental place even offers one). It also can be difficult to maintain an EZpass account if you don't have a credit card since the other methods of payment are less convenient.
Of course, yes, there are people who pay tolls regularly and still refuse to get an EZpass for one reason or another. Some people are too lazy to expend the effort to set up an account. Some people don't want to put a device in their car that the government can use to track their movements. Some people are stubborn and insist that paying cash ain't broke so why fix it (this reasoning delayed my parents signing up for EZpass for several years). Some people like interacting with human toll collectors and don't want to eliminate that experience. And some people dislike electronic toll collection on principle because they don't want to see toll collectors' jobs eliminated.
There are also the people that hardly ever drive on toll roads since there aren't any in their area, like me, and it is just easier to pay cash then set up an account for a road I probably won't drive on again for another few years. I also don't like electronic toll roads because I get charged over a dollar for a pay by mail fee. On top of that I have to write out a check at the end of the month. I'd rather just pay right then and there so I don't have to worry about it. Plus all the all-electronic toll roads jack up their prices anyways. TX 255 used to be $2 cash to drive on. Now it is $3.99 + a $1.15 pay by mail fee. If I ever have to cross into Mexico I'll drive down to FM 1472 before I take TX 255.
Quote from: Brandon on October 13, 2015, 10:33:57 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 13, 2015, 08:06:32 AM
Quote from: Brandon on October 13, 2015, 07:09:20 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
ISTHA says that over 85% of their customers have an I-Pass or E-Z Pass.
I find that very hard to believe.
http://www.illinoistollway.com/tolls-and-i-pass/about-i-pass
QuoteMore than 87 percent of Tollway customers use I-PASS.
http://www.illinoistollway.com/documents/10157/15874/I-PASS+Facts+Figures+and+History
The only thing that would make the "more than 85% of Tollway Customers" statement remotely plausible is if they were referring to only "Local" residents / commuters who live within 25 miles of any part of the Tollway system.
Quote from: thenetwork on October 13, 2015, 11:21:53 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 13, 2015, 10:33:57 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 13, 2015, 08:06:32 AM
Quote from: Brandon on October 13, 2015, 07:09:20 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
ISTHA says that over 85% of their customers have an I-Pass or E-Z Pass.
I find that very hard to believe.
http://www.illinoistollway.com/tolls-and-i-pass/about-i-pass
QuoteMore than 87 percent of Tollway customers use I-PASS.
http://www.illinoistollway.com/documents/10157/15874/I-PASS+Facts+Figures+and+History
The only thing that would make the "more than 85% of Tollway Customers" statement remotely plausible is if they were referring to only "Local" residents / commuters who live within 25 miles of any part of the Tollway system.
Best information I could find was 2010.
The Tollway processed 820 million transactions, of which 680 million were electronic (and 1.6 million were not paid). That works out to about 83%. I can only assume the percentage has gone up since then.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 13, 2015, 08:05:12 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 12, 2015, 11:30:02 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
A very surprisingly low number -- especially around here with all the commuters between Albany and Schenectady that could be saving a decent amount of money with the 30-mile plan the Thruway offers.
You do notice more people using the E-ZPass lanes in NYC.
People who do not frequently pay tolls very often lack an EZpass account since they don't see it as worth the bother. A visitor driving a rental car would be well justified in paying cash rather than dealing with the rental agency's crazy fees to use their tag (if the rental place even offers one). It also can be difficult to maintain an EZpass account if you don't have a credit card since the other methods of payment are less convenient.
Of course, yes, there are people who pay tolls regularly and still refuse to get an EZpass for one reason or another. Some people are too lazy to expend the effort to set up an account. Some people don't want to put a device in their car that the government can use to track their movements. Some people are stubborn and insist that paying cash ain't broke so why fix it (this reasoning delayed my parents signing up for EZpass for several years). Some people like interacting with human toll collectors and don't want to eliminate that experience. And some people dislike electronic toll collection on principle because they don't want to see toll collectors' jobs eliminated.
This is why I specifically mentioned the
commuters between Albany and Schenectady that use the Thruway every day, even despite a respectable fiscal incentive to use E-ZPass (an even bigger discount through the 30-mile plan than the one offered just by having an E-ZPass). You still see surprising numbers using the cash lanes. Doesn't make a lick of sense. :D
Quote from: Duke87 on October 13, 2015, 08:05:12 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 12, 2015, 11:30:02 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
A very surprisingly low number -- especially around here with all the commuters between Albany and Schenectady that could be saving a decent amount of money with the 30-mile plan the Thruway offers.
You do notice more people using the E-ZPass lanes in NYC.
People who do not frequently pay tolls very often lack an EZpass account since they don't see it as worth the bother. A visitor driving a rental car would be well justified in paying cash rather than dealing with the rental agency's crazy fees to use their tag (if the rental place even offers one). It also can be difficult to maintain an EZpass account if you don't have a credit card since the other methods of payment are less convenient.
Of course, yes, there are people who pay tolls regularly and still refuse to get an EZpass for one reason or another. Some people are too lazy to expend the effort to set up an account. Some people don't want to put a device in their car that the government can use to track their movements. Some people are stubborn and insist that paying cash ain't broke so why fix it (this reasoning delayed my parents signing up for EZpass for several years). Some people like interacting with human toll collectors and don't want to eliminate that experience. And some people dislike electronic toll collection on principle because they don't want to see toll collectors' jobs eliminated.
There are also people who still insist E-ZPass (or other ETC systems) use the "time-stamp" data from the toll collection points to issue speeding tickets, even though such stories have been thoroughly debunked. It's not in the ETC operators' own best interests to issue speeding tickets in that manner because it'd discourage people from signing up.
Then you have the guy I know in Falls Church–I'm sure I've mentioned him before–who opposes the construction of the WMATA Silver Line out to Dulles Airport and beyond and refuses to get an E-ZPass because he thinks getting one is a form of supporting the Silver Line project. Yet he still uses the Dulles Toll Road (paying cash) from time to time, even though I know he knows a good chunk of the money goes to the Silver Line construction. The guy is a bit of a conspiracy theorist. If he avoided the Dulles Toll Road entirely except in an emergency, I'd understand better, although I still don't see the point of not having an E-ZPass when you do drive on other member facilities in this part of the country.
Some people just don't understand how it works. Around 15 years ago when I first got a Virginia Smart Tag, my father–who is not at all technologically inept, especially for someone in his late 60s–initially expressed skepticism because he didn't understand "how you recharge it." He thought you had to take it somewhere and touch it to a device to add money to it. I guess he was picturing something similar to the WMATA SmarTrip card, although I'm not sure what made him picture that because he drove to work and almost never rode the subway until after he retired in 2011 or so (and he did not have a SmarTrip card until he got the Senior SmarTrip card after retiring).
Virginia now has something called the "Reload Card" to allow people who don't have credit cards to get an E-ZPass and replenish it at certain stores ( http://www.ezpassva.com/reloadcard/ ), but I don't think it's very well-publicized and it does carry a surcharge.
The people for whom I understand it making sense not to get a transponder are the people who are doing shady or illegal things and are afraid their E-ZPass records might be the subject of a subpoena someday, such as people who are cheating on their spouses and worry the toll records could become part of the divorce court proceedings. (I'm not excusing whatever behavior the people are engaging in, of course; I'm just saying I understand why they might be wary of E-ZPass, or of using toll roads in general!)
QuoteThe people for whom I understand it making sense not to get a transponder are the people who are doing shady or illegal things and are afraid their E-ZPass records might be the subject of a subpoena someday, such as people who are cheating on their spouses and worry the toll records could become part of the divorce court proceedings.
Yet the majority of these very same people have cell phones, the usage records from which could also be the subject of a subpoena in such cases (no pun intended). Funny how they don't seem to have a problem with that, however.
My parents live in Rochester but don't have cause to travel the Thruway often. The most regular trip is to Canandaigua, but the toll between exits 44 and 45 is only 20 cents each way. I spend more in tolls
each way to visit them than they do in an average year. Understandably, they don't feel it makes sense to get E-ZPass and have money tied up in a toll account.
Quote from: Rothman on October 14, 2015, 09:08:30 AM
This is why I specifically mentioned the commuters between Albany and Schenectady that use the Thruway every day, even despite a respectable fiscal incentive to use E-ZPass (an even bigger discount through the 30-mile plan than the one offered just by having an E-ZPass). You still see surprising numbers using the cash lanes. Doesn't make a lick of sense. :D
If they travel exclusively between exits 25A and 24 they aren't paying anything.
Quote from: roadman on October 14, 2015, 10:14:32 AM
QuoteThe people for whom I understand it making sense not to get a transponder are the people who are doing shady or illegal things and are afraid their E-ZPass records might be the subject of a subpoena someday, such as people who are cheating on their spouses and worry the toll records could become part of the divorce court proceedings.
Yet the majority of these very same people have cell phones, the usage records from which could also be the subject of a subpoena in such cases (no pun intended). Funny how they don't seem to have a problem with that, however.
Are most people even aware that their cell phones can track their every move? They probably assume the cell phone is just a passive device when not being used to make a call when it's actually constantly "phoning home". Many might not have even known that usage was logged before the NSA leak made those facts more well known.
Quote from: vdeane on October 14, 2015, 01:50:56 PM
....
Are most people even aware that their cell phones can track their every move? They probably assume the cell phone is just a passive device when not being used to make a call when it's actually constantly "phoning home". Many might not have even known that usage was logged before the NSA leak made those facts more well known.
I kind of doubt most people who are aware of the NSA thing generally are aware of just how precise the cell tower data can be and of how, particularly in rural areas where there aren't many towers, the cell tower data can be used to narrow down your location pretty much all day long even as you're driving around.
Quote from: vdeane on October 14, 2015, 01:50:56 PM
If they travel exclusively between exits 25A and 24 they aren't paying anything.
Curse you and your common sense.
Quote from: US 41 on October 13, 2015, 11:04:20 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 13, 2015, 08:05:12 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 12, 2015, 11:30:02 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 12, 2015, 11:17:57 PM
What percentage of people have EZPasses? I still see a ton of NH, Maine and MA plates heading to the cash plazas on the Maine Turnpike and those are states WITH EZPass.
A very surprisingly low number -- especially around here with all the commuters between Albany and Schenectady that could be saving a decent amount of money with the 30-mile plan the Thruway offers.
You do notice more people using the E-ZPass lanes in NYC.
People who do not frequently pay tolls very often lack an EZpass account since they don't see it as worth the bother. A visitor driving a rental car would be well justified in paying cash rather than dealing with the rental agency's crazy fees to use their tag (if the rental place even offers one). It also can be difficult to maintain an EZpass account if you don't have a credit card since the other methods of payment are less convenient.
Of course, yes, there are people who pay tolls regularly and still refuse to get an EZpass for one reason or another. Some people are too lazy to expend the effort to set up an account. Some people don't want to put a device in their car that the government can use to track their movements. Some people are stubborn and insist that paying cash ain't broke so why fix it (this reasoning delayed my parents signing up for EZpass for several years). Some people like interacting with human toll collectors and don't want to eliminate that experience. And some people dislike electronic toll collection on principle because they don't want to see toll collectors' jobs eliminated.
There are also the people that hardly ever drive on toll roads since there aren't any in their area, like me, and it is just easier to pay cash then set up an account for a road I probably won't drive on again for another few years. I also don't like electronic toll roads because I get charged over a dollar for a pay by mail fee. On top of that I have to write out a check at the end of the month. I'd rather just pay right then and there so I don't have to worry about it. Plus all the all-electronic toll roads jack up their prices anyways. TX 255 used to be $2 cash to drive on. Now it is $3.99 + a $1.15 pay by mail fee. If I ever have to cross into Mexico I'll drive down to FM 1472 before I take TX 255.
No need. Just call TxTag ahead of time and set up a Camino Colombia day pass account. Instead of getting a bill in the mail, your toll is withdrawn from the account. There is no minimum balance, but there might be a minimum starting deposit (I can't remember). However, if you ever do drive that route, then the TX-130 bypass from Georgetown to San Antonio is well worth getting a TxTag. I put off getting a TxTag for years of annual driving through Texas to México because I wasn't sure how long our van would last. I would have broken down (no pun intended) and gotten one this year, except that our new driving route includes no toll roads in Texas. I am finally, however, considering a PikePass.
Here in Quebec, since the A-30 extension opened. We got some toll operators on the A-30 bridge who span the St.Lawrence River.
Quote from: Brandon on October 13, 2015, 10:12:10 PM
Not much point around here as you save 50% over not having a transponder. Those tolls can add up, and cash tolls at mainline plazas can be anywhere from $1.50 to $3.80 a plaza. Even for the occasional tollway user, the transponder makes economic sense.
And yet, as much sense as it makes, there are plenty of people who simply don't put any thought into this decision, since it's not something they have any interesting in thinking about.
Quote from: Rothman on October 14, 2015, 09:08:30 AM
This is why I specifically mentioned the commuters between Albany and Schenectady that use the Thruway every day, even despite a respectable fiscal incentive to use E-ZPass (an even bigger discount through the 30-mile plan than the one offered just by having an E-ZPass).
With regards to the 30-mile plan, things like that are often not adopted because people are totally unaware of them and, as before, have no interest in thinking about it.
You'd be surprised the capacity people have to not think about these things. I have an uncle who lives in New York and uses MTA crossings with some frequency, but his EZpass is a NJ Turnpike tag due to him having first obtained it there. He gets hosed with the full cash rate every time he crosses an MTA bridge/tunnel AND pays a monthly fee for the tag... but he doesn't care because he puts no thought into it. He never looks at the details on any of his statements, the tolls are whatever they are.
I've pointed this out to him and told him he would save a bunch of money by getting a NY tag... but he hasn't.
Much like 1995hoo's father couldn't understand how to recharge a tag, I'm guessing there are a decent number of older folks who simply do not grasp the concept that the price of a toll can be different depending on how you pay it. Back in ye olde cash only days that was never the case.
I still have a New Hampshire EZPass tag even though I live in Maine. Of course, I'm paying maybe a dollar more if I go to Portland and if I'm going farther, it's to Boston so I pass through NH anyway.
I should probably switch over at some point.
Quote from: vdeane on October 14, 2015, 01:50:56 PM
My parents live in Rochester but don't have cause to travel the Thruway often. The most regular trip is to Canandaigua, but the toll between exits 44 and 45 is only 20 cents each way. I spend more in tolls each way to visit them than they do in an average year. Understandably, they don't feel it makes sense to get E-ZPass and have money tied up in a toll account.
Quote from: Rothman on October 14, 2015, 09:08:30 AM
This is why I specifically mentioned the commuters between Albany and Schenectady that use the Thruway every day, even despite a respectable fiscal incentive to use E-ZPass (an even bigger discount through the 30-mile plan than the one offered just by having an E-ZPass). You still see surprising numbers using the cash lanes. Doesn't make a lick of sense. :D
If they travel exclusively between exits 25A and 24 they aren't paying anything.
Quote from: roadman on October 14, 2015, 10:14:32 AM
QuoteThe people for whom I understand it making sense not to get a transponder are the people who are doing shady or illegal things and are afraid their E-ZPass records might be the subject of a subpoena someday, such as people who are cheating on their spouses and worry the toll records could become part of the divorce court proceedings.
Yet the majority of these very same people have cell phones, the usage records from which could also be the subject of a subpoena in such cases (no pun intended). Funny how they don't seem to have a problem with that, however.
Are most people even aware that their cell phones can track their every move? They probably assume the cell phone is just a passive device when not being used to make a call when it's actually constantly "phoning home". Many might not have even known that usage was logged before the NSA leak made those facts more well known.
It's not well advertised until someone's records are subpoenaed. I was surprised when my most recent phone went to such great lengths to remind me about apps using my location despite them not being open.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 14, 2015, 10:25:47 PM
I still have a New Hampshire EZPass tag even though I live in Maine. Of course, I'm paying maybe a dollar more if I go to Portland and if I'm going farther, it's to Boston so I pass through NH anyway.
I should probably switch over at some point.
Especially since Maine has a rather unusual form of transponder discrimination: Maine E-ZPass users are billed a per-mile rate on a virtual ticket system, but
everyone from out of state, even those with E-ZPass, uses the more expensive barrier/ramp system. I've heard of different rates for different transponders before, but never of using a completely different system based on what type of transponder one has.