Some of these, adapted for North American use, would be great.
Priority road:
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Vajningspliktsmarken/B4/B4-1/laddahem/B4-1.png)
End priority road:
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Vajningspliktsmarken/B5/B5-1/laddahem/B5-1.png)
Begin urbanized area:
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Anvisningsmarken/E5/E5-1/laddahem/E5-1.png)
End urbanized area:
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Anvisningsmarken/E6/E6-1/laddahem/E6-1.png)
Begin motorway (or motorway entrance):
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Anvisningsmarken/E1/E1-1/laddahem/E-11.png)
End motorway (or exiting motorway):
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Anvisningsmarken/E2/E2-1/laddahem/E2-1.png)
Jughandle ahead:
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Lokaliseringsmarken_for_vagvisning/F2/F2-1/laddahem/F2-1.png)
Toll road (or toll crossing):
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Anvisningsmarken/E25/E25-1/laddahem/E25-1.png)
The "toll road" signage shows gold-colored coins. Very few people use dollar coins. Maybe two generic bills could be used.
Any form of cash would be problematic with so many facilities moving to all-ETC.
That sign from Quebec with the Angry cloud
Honestly, I don't think any of those European signs really work all that great. We don't have priority roads here. The toll one looks like he's/she's handing you coins. The motorway ones just appear to be two lines under a bridge, which really doesn't mean much. And the urban area ones make no sense in a North American context. The only sign that might be decipherable is the jughandle one.
Quote from: mariethefoxy on July 28, 2015, 02:01:52 PM
That sign from Quebec with the Angry cloud
I do admit to liking Old Man Winter (
le bonhomme hiver?), and here's a European one that is supposed to convey the same thing:
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Varningsmarken/A24/A24-1/laddahem/A24-1.png)
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 02:09:19 PM
Honestly, I don't think any of those European signs really work all that great. We don't have priority roads here. The toll one looks like he's/she's handing you coins. The motorway ones just appear to be two lines under a bridge, which really doesn't mean much. And the urban area ones make no sense in a North American context. The only sign that might be decipherable is the jughandle one.
Note that I said
adapted.
I disagree regarding urban areas. Every state in the union has urbanized areas - the FHWA has maps of them as defined by the Census Bureau on its Web site (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census_issues/urbanized_areas_and_mpo_tma/geographic_resources/).
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 02:09:19 PM
Honestly, I don't think any of those European signs really work all that great. We don't have priority roads here. The toll one looks like he's/she's handing you coins. The motorway ones just appear to be two lines under a bridge, which really doesn't mean much. And the urban area ones make no sense in a North American context. The only sign that might be decipherable is the jughandle one.
Agreed, especially with how lazy non-roadgeek drivers are in the US. I could see unifying the existing urban limit signs in the US, but there's no need for a symbol. Lose the no left turn symbol on the jughandle sign and put a break or bridge symbol to indicate the lack of drivable connection at the crossing.
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F36.media.tumblr.com%2F2654b886c68a39d02b9779d79c0c8078%2Ftumblr_n8qb1mKuhb1r7vmpro1_1280.jpg&hash=91b0bc4ee1db34136228d2291995a0b0905a9304)
There Permissible Turn in Green Circle from Canada.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bible.ca%2Fsign-left-turn-only.gif&hash=a554eb3039db7e1a3816ca523996956cc7820089)
End Speed Zone from the Vienna Countries
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 28, 2015, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 02:09:19 PM
Honestly, I don't think any of those European signs really work all that great. We don't have priority roads here. The toll one looks like he's/she's handing you coins. The motorway ones just appear to be two lines under a bridge, which really doesn't mean much. And the urban area ones make no sense in a North American context. The only sign that might be decipherable is the jughandle one.
Note that I said adapted.
I disagree regarding urban areas. Every state in the union has urbanized areas - the FHWA has maps of them as defined by the Census Bureau on its Web site (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census_issues/urbanized_areas_and_mpo_tma/geographic_resources/).
Not really all that good as many municipalities tend to annex and build rather quickly. And area can go from rural to suburban within a year or two. Anyway, a simple speed limit change should be more than sufficient. We, in North America, do not have standardized speed limits for freeways, rural highways, and urban streets they same way they do in Europe.
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 03:22:45 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 28, 2015, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 02:09:19 PM
Honestly, I don't think any of those European signs really work all that great. We don't have priority roads here. The toll one looks like he's/she's handing you coins. The motorway ones just appear to be two lines under a bridge, which really doesn't mean much. And the urban area ones make no sense in a North American context. The only sign that might be decipherable is the jughandle one.
Note that I said adapted.
I disagree regarding urban areas. Every state in the union has urbanized areas - the FHWA has maps of them as defined by the Census Bureau on its Web site (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census_issues/urbanized_areas_and_mpo_tma/geographic_resources/).
Not really all that good as many municipalities tend to annex and build rather quickly. And area can go from rural to suburban within a year or two. Anyway, a simple speed limit change should be more than sufficient. We, in North America, do not have standardized speed limits for freeways, rural highways, and urban streets they same way they do in Europe.
South of the Mason-Dixon Line, most growth is in unincorporated areas (absolutely no townships and no boroughs - and relatively little annexation where there are municipalities), and municipal boundaries (where they exist) frequently have no relationship to where urbanized areas begin and end.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 28, 2015, 03:48:56 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 03:22:45 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 28, 2015, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 02:09:19 PM
Honestly, I don't think any of those European signs really work all that great. We don't have priority roads here. The toll one looks like he's/she's handing you coins. The motorway ones just appear to be two lines under a bridge, which really doesn't mean much. And the urban area ones make no sense in a North American context. The only sign that might be decipherable is the jughandle one.
Note that I said adapted.
I disagree regarding urban areas. Every state in the union has urbanized areas - the FHWA has maps of them as defined by the Census Bureau on its Web site (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census_issues/urbanized_areas_and_mpo_tma/geographic_resources/).
Not really all that good as many municipalities tend to annex and build rather quickly. And area can go from rural to suburban within a year or two. Anyway, a simple speed limit change should be more than sufficient. We, in North America, do not have standardized speed limits for freeways, rural highways, and urban streets they same way they do in Europe.
South of the Mason-Dixon Line, most growth is in unincorporated areas (absolutely no townships and no boroughs - and relatively little annexation where there are municipalities), and municipal boundaries (where they exist) frequently have no relationship to where urbanized areas begin and end.
In the Midwest, we have far more aggressive annexation by municipalities. In some areas, it's to the point where, here in Illinois, we have some municipalities that have annexed hundreds of acres of farmland with little more than corn and soybeans.
Example: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.562781,-88.352807,3a,75y,120.95h,81.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfyepfBhcDsi7ANOuzEU_zw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
Completely rural, but 3 of those 4 corners are in the City of Joliet.
Zoning map, showing all within the municipal boundaries: http://www.cityofjoliet.info/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=1539
Now, where do you place the "urban area" signage? At the municipal boundary? At the edge of the census area? At the edge of noticeable development? The idea of a European edge of urban area is kind of silly here.
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 03:22:45 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 28, 2015, 02:21:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 02:09:19 PM
Honestly, I don't think any of those European signs really work all that great. We don't have priority roads here. The toll one looks like he's/she's handing you coins. The motorway ones just appear to be two lines under a bridge, which really doesn't mean much. And the urban area ones make no sense in a North American context. The only sign that might be decipherable is the jughandle one.
Note that I said adapted.
I disagree regarding urban areas. Every state in the union has urbanized areas - the FHWA has maps of them as defined by the Census Bureau on its Web site (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census_issues/urbanized_areas_and_mpo_tma/geographic_resources/).
Not really all that good as many municipalities tend to annex and build rather quickly. And area can go from rural to suburban within a year or two. Anyway, a simple speed limit change should be more than sufficient. We, in North America, do not have standardized speed limits for freeways, rural highways, and urban streets they same way they do in Europe.
Well, at least some states (like Washington and Oregon) can use their urban growth boundaries. For example, I'd place Seattle's boundary signs on I-5 at Smokey Point and maybe Tumwater (if including Olympia).
I've never liked the approach of using a diagonal slash to mean "end" . To me, this sign says "no freeway" not "end of freeway" .
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 28, 2015, 01:14:53 PM
End motorway (or exiting motorway):
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Anvisningsmarken/E2/E2-1/laddahem/E2-1.png)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 28, 2015, 01:14:53 PM
Some of these, adapted for North American use, would be great.
Priority road:
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Vajningspliktsmarken/B4/B4-1/laddahem/B4-1.png)
Looks too much like a caution sign where the text has faded/fallen off, or an object marker, particularly OM1-3. I'd rather see some other design used if the US every went for a priority road/this movement doesn't stop sign - maybe a blank green circle, or an upward pointing arrow.
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
There Permissible Turn in Green Circle from Canada.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bible.ca%2Fsign-left-turn-only.gif&hash=a554eb3039db7e1a3816ca523996956cc7820089)
Better IMHO to stick with the current US practice of having the turn being legal unless signed otherwise, or using the lane control (R3-6) signs
The one from Europe that uses a thicker line to show that the road that has right-of-way turns at an intersection. These are used in non-standard right-of-way situations.
Quote from: Brian556 on July 28, 2015, 06:31:24 PM
The one from Europe that uses a thicker line to show that the road that has right-of-way turns at an intersection. These are used in non-standard right-of-way situations.
I was starting to write about this when you posted! You're talking about this one:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/CZ-E02b_Tvar_k%C5%99i%C5%BEovatky.svg/240px-CZ-E02b_Tvar_k%C5%99i%C5%BEovatky.svg.png)
That would make a lot of sense, as there's no clear way to indicate this in the United States. I've seen awkwardly phrased signs from the leg of the intersection that has to stop (e.g. "Cross and opposing traffic does not stop", "Traffic from left does not stop"), but a symbol is so much more concise. I have also seen the leg that does not have to stop given a permanent flashing yellow arrow - on the above sign, that would be traffic coming from the top leg and going to the right leg. But that predates the modern FYA traffic signal and does not mean the same thing, which is confusing. MDOT has probably, somewhere, put a flashing yellow ball under a "LEFT" sign to achieve the same effect. :rolleyes:
You could also use a diagram like Quebec's all-way stop sign:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fc8.alamy.com%2Fcomp%2FC95GWH%2Fbilingual-4-way-stop-sign-surrounded-by-greenery-taken-in-the-province-C95GWH.jpg&hash=be2b827e73b20c13bb2a5e60149e50d38f507828)
...though obviously putting a stop sign only on the legs that stop.
At some point, we're going to have to move away from text signs. As of now, 1 in 5 Americans do not speak English as their primary language, and with the number of immigrants moving in from nearby countries and those across the ponds, I don't see that number declining.
Many citizens from other countries, chiefly the Chinese, have been very interested in Canada. But with Canada tightening up their border just recently, many of these immigrants are now interested in the US. Given this, I would expect our immigrant population to grow faster than it has in a long time, and with it, the number of aliens who perhaps don't speak English.
As for now, we could start posting all sorts of interesting signs with odd diagrams. All you have to do is post a supplementary plaque, and with time, the seemingly odd signs will develop a meaning. Take the motorway signs*. They seem odd to us, but they make perfect sense to Europeans, because they're used to them.
*I like the motorway signs, but they have stronger meaning in Europe. Most of Europe has motorway restrictions, and while there are restrictions on US freeways, they are far less numerous. In the US, they are best fit to replace "Freeway Entrance" (IMO).
Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2015, 01:09:13 AM
At some point, we're going to have to move away from text signs. As of now, 1 in 5 Americans do not speak English as their primary language, and with the number of immigrants moving in from nearby countries and those across the ponds, I don't see that number declining.
What about metric vs US customary signage? Don't want to open that up again, but if a large group of people move to the US, either they have to learn, or the country has to adapt, or both. Units of measure are just as important as making signage more recognizable to those who don't speak English well IMO.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 29, 2015, 01:13:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2015, 01:09:13 AM
At some point, we're going to have to move away from text signs. As of now, 1 in 5 Americans do not speak English as their primary language, and with the number of immigrants moving in from nearby countries and those across the ponds, I don't see that number declining.
What about metric vs US customary signage? Don't want to open that up again, but if a large group of people move to the US, either they have to learn, or the country has to adapt, or both. Units of measure are just as important as making signage more recognizable to those who don't speak English well IMO.
I am the last person who'd support the imperial system presently in use. Any sort of major overhaul to MUTCD signage should come along with metric units.
I, for one, am looking forward to a nice battle over the metric system, as a welcome break from the serious problems American society faces.
I'd like these signs to be included in the MUTCD, as Australia combines the use of the FHWA fonts with British-styled signage, and also making their own custom spec signage.
Quote from: national highway 1 on June 11, 2012, 12:11:28 AM
Another batch of Aussie neologisms.
AD, Advance Directional Sign, used for advance signange at upcoming major intersections
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozroads.com.au%2FNSW%2FRouteNumbering%2FState%2520Routes%2F40%2F25.JPG&hash=f7d3a8953966ea051c73aa1f9a8d7a220002b9a1)
A diagrammatical AD sign used with arrows that show where the lanes go
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozroads.com.au%2FNSW%2FRouteNumbering%2FState%2520Routes%2F40%2F08.JPG&hash=c31bf9b7dda15f91d0ac903636391bc36a21ff6a)
ID, Intersection Directional Signs, used for signage at the intersection itself
Newer signage incorporates the road name patch into the sign itself.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozroads.com.au%2FNSW%2FRouteNumbering%2FState%2520Routes%2F40%2F34.JPG&hash=a43d72d7775f184f6620a40d630e281ad97f210a)
RD, Reassurance Directional Signs also called distance signs.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozroads.com.au%2FNSW%2FRouteNumbering%2FState%2520Routes%2F40%2F51.JPG&hash=45bfbbcb55ae7924930889d2cf304844aa525854)
Fork signs, used on freeways
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozroads.com.au%2FNSW%2FFreeways%2FM5%2F01.JPG&hash=3925e177a2e83e6633d0ff4c2a8734aa76d9912a)
Fingerboards, used on many rural highways showing the distance to the nearest towns.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozroads.com.au%2FNSW%2FHighways%2FPacific%2F355.JPG&hash=641eaec1a3c5a6ab16e897d6b68ae33cac198b05)
Double-Chevron Signs, a modern variant to the the fingerboard
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozroads.com.au%2FNSW%2FRouteNumbering%2FState%2520Routes%2F89%2F21.JPG&hash=b4e10ffe8321e17a2391955c0d148d11f2c36436)
Kilometre plates, used at 5km intervals on rural highways, with the town's intial at the top. The E stands for Euston. Usually towns with the same first letter have an additional letter to differentiate between the two.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ozroads.com.au%2FNSW%2FRouteNumbering%2FNational%2520Routes%2F79%2Fsilvercity_01.JPG&hash=2088625ee1b70a5c2c3df850121d2917683e539d)
Quote from: briantroutman on July 28, 2015, 06:04:17 PM
I've never liked the approach of using a diagonal slash to mean "end" . To me, this sign says "no freeway" not "end of freeway" .
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 28, 2015, 01:14:53 PM
End motorway (or exiting motorway):
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Anvisningsmarken/E2/E2-1/laddahem/E2-1.png)
Maybe something like this instead then?
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/Amerikanska/motorvagalt.png)
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 28, 2015, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 28, 2015, 01:14:53 PM
Some of these, adapted for North American use, would be great.
Priority road:
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Vajningspliktsmarken/B4/B4-1/laddahem/B4-1.png)
Looks too much like a caution sign where the text has faded/fallen off, or an object marker, particularly OM1-3. I'd rather see some other design used if the US every went for a priority road/this movement doesn't stop sign - maybe a blank green circle, or an upward pointing arrow.
Perhaps add "PRIORITY" to the sign? It's a pretty much universally recognized sign, and I doubt it will be confused with warning signs once it has been in use for a little while.
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/Amerikanska/amerikansk-wienkonvetion-liten-03.png)
I'd really like the US to adopt the most important designs in the Vienna Convention as seen in the same image above with the crosswalk sign, priority over another vehicle on a one-lane road, etc. And maybe the biggest change would come in the changing of speed limit signs to add the red circle and the addition of proper mandatory signage.
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/Amerikanska/Forbudsexempel-01.png)
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/Amerikanska/amerikansk-wienkonvetion-liten-05.png)
The rest of the world could also embrace American signage. :rolleyes:
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/Amerikanska/svensk-amerikansk.png)
Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2015, 01:09:13 AM
At some point, we're going to have to move away from text signs. As of now, 1 in 5 Americans do not speak English as their primary language, and with the number of immigrants moving in from nearby countries and those across the ponds, I don't see that number declining.
I think you may be correct about that.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2015, 01:09:13 AM
Many citizens from other countries, chiefly the Chinese, have been very interested in Canada. But with Canada tightening up their border just recently, many of these immigrants are now interested in the US. Given this, I would expect our immigrant population to grow faster than it has in a long time, and with it, the number of aliens who perhaps don't speak English.
Though they should be strongly encouraged to learn English.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2015, 01:09:13 AM
As for now, we could start posting all sorts of interesting signs with odd diagrams. All you have to do is post a supplementary plaque, and with time, the seemingly odd signs will develop a meaning. Take the motorway signs*. They seem odd to us, but they make perfect sense to Europeans, because they're used to them.
It reminds me a little of Caltrans practice of putting the letters "Fwy" next to a route shield.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2015, 01:09:13 AM
*I like the motorway signs, but they have stronger meaning in Europe. Most of Europe has motorway restrictions, and while there are restrictions on US freeways, they are far less numerous. In the US, they are best fit to replace "Freeway Entrance" (IMO).
I have stated more than once how much I like the Caltrans "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" assemblies for an assortment of reasons.
Quote from: riiga on July 29, 2015, 04:51:13 AM
Quote from: briantroutman on July 28, 2015, 06:04:17 PM
I've never liked the approach of using a diagonal slash to mean "end" . To me, this sign says "no freeway" not "end of freeway" .
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 28, 2015, 01:14:53 PM
End motorway (or exiting motorway):
(https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Anvisningsmarken/E2/E2-1/laddahem/E2-1.png)
Maybe something like this instead then?
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24401393/Amerikanska/motorvagalt.png)
This would actually be pretty consistent with North American MUTCD signage, especially since black-on-white rectangles are supposed to be regulatory in nature, and END FREEWAY (or END MOTORWAY) is conveying regulatory information.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2015, 01:15:30 AM
I am the last person who'd support the imperial system presently in use. Any sort of major overhaul to MUTCD signage should come along with metric units.
There are (or were) provisions in the MUTCD for SI units in addition to U.S. customary units.
Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2015, 01:09:13 AM
*I like the motorway signs, but they have stronger meaning in Europe. Most of Europe has motorway restrictions, and while there are restrictions on US freeways, they are far less numerous. In the US, they are best fit to replace "Freeway Entrance" (IMO).
The restrictions on freeway use vary from state to state. Some states, such as Colorado, even allow for bicycles to use freeways unless otherwise prohibited. I'd be more in favor of using signs that prohibit X from using the freeway, such as the symbol sings for no pedestrians and no bicycles, and using symbol signage for no farm implements (no sign over a tractor) and for no riding animals (no sign over a rider on a horse).
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 28, 2015, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
There Permissible Turn in Green Circle from Canada.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bible.ca%2Fsign-left-turn-only.gif&hash=a554eb3039db7e1a3816ca523996956cc7820089)
Better IMHO to stick with the current US practice of having the turn being legal unless signed otherwise, or using the lane control (R3-6) signs
This is more of an "Only" sign. It would be much better than using the word "Only" as we do, especially given the lack of an official language.
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 30, 2015, 02:37:29 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 28, 2015, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
There Permissible Turn in Green Circle from Canada.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bible.ca%2Fsign-left-turn-only.gif&hash=a554eb3039db7e1a3816ca523996956cc7820089)
Better IMHO to stick with the current US practice of having the turn being legal unless signed otherwise, or using the lane control (R3-6) signs
This is more of an "Only" sign. It would be much better than using the word "Only" as we do, especially given the lack of an official language.
Agreed. Even in Canada, I'm not a fan of the green circle signs. Partially because I always think they mean that, in this example, turning left is allowed, but not mandatory. I believe another colour (either blue or black) is used in Europe.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 30, 2015, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 30, 2015, 02:37:29 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 28, 2015, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
There Permissible Turn in Green Circle from Canada.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bible.ca%2Fsign-left-turn-only.gif&hash=a554eb3039db7e1a3816ca523996956cc7820089)
Better IMHO to stick with the current US practice of having the turn being legal unless signed otherwise, or using the lane control (R3-6) signs
This is more of an "Only" sign. It would be much better than using the word "Only" as we do, especially given the lack of an official language.
Agreed. Even in Canada, I'm not a fan of the green circle signs. Partially because I always think they mean that, in this example, turning left is allowed, but not mandatory. I believe another colour (either blue or black) is used in Europe.
Blue is used and means a mandatory movement.
The problem with the green signs though is that they aren't good for the color-blind. Compare
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/Amerikanska/Fargblindhet.png)
Wouldn't a color blind person be able to tell the difference because the green signs don't have the slash through the middle and the red signs do?
Quote from: vdeane on July 30, 2015, 05:38:39 PM
Wouldn't a color blind person be able to tell the difference because the green signs don't have the slash through the middle and the red signs do?
I'm color blind and I confirm vdeane's assertion to be true. :D
Indeed, but having a color that is easily distinguishable helps too, hence why we (at least in Europe) tend to use distinctive colors, while America traditionally has been more about shape for certain signs.
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F36.media.tumblr.com%2F2654b886c68a39d02b9779d79c0c8078%2Ftumblr_n8qb1mKuhb1r7vmpro1_1280.jpg&hash=91b0bc4ee1db34136228d2291995a0b0905a9304)
So
that's what that is. I've seen this in movies like "National Lampoon's Senior Trip," and others. I forget what I saw in "Rock n' Rule," but I believe it was something of a Canadian standard. I'll have to check it again.
Quote from: riiga on July 30, 2015, 06:05:44 PM
Indeed, but having a color that is easily distinguishable helps too, hence why we (at least in Europe) tend to use distinctive colors, while America traditionally has been more about shape for certain signs.
Though North America has pretty obviously adapted European signs to conform to U.S./Canada standards in the past.
Finland (from the Finnish National Transport Administration site (https://www.suomi.fi/suomifi/svenska/service_enligt_tema/trafik_och_resor/trafiksakerhet/vagmarken_och_trafikregler/index.html)):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fportal.liikennevirasto.fi%2Fsivu%2Fwww%2Ff%2Fliikenneverkko%2Fliikennemerkit_turvalaitteet%2Fimages%2F333.gif&hash=f16374c1aa8c92a50124bd44e889dad5ecae0b3c)
U.S. (thanks to Richard Moeur's great site (http://www.trafficsign.us/)):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trafficsign.us%2F650%2Freg%2Fr3-1.gif&hash=1ae89b5d727175d2e2f23ca33d4b34321dec0103)
Finland:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fportal.liikennevirasto.fi%2Fsivu%2Fwww%2Ff%2Fliikenneverkko%2Fliikennemerkit_turvalaitteet%2Fimages%2F331.gif&hash=8fd76a32170297450d7b468ac24a952b4723f9e2)
U.S.:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trafficsign.us%2F650%2Freg%2Fr5-1.gif&hash=24460963c92fa45e840367ee6c4c20f34b77df63)
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F36.media.tumblr.com%2F2654b886c68a39d02b9779d79c0c8078%2Ftumblr_n8qb1mKuhb1r7vmpro1_1280.jpg&hash=91b0bc4ee1db34136228d2291995a0b0905a9304)
Wonder if the checkboard sign would be better if the yellow was in red instead?
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 02, 2015, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.
Wonder if the checkboard sign would be better if the yellow was in red instead?
Granted, this is just Photoshop, but I think I prefer yellow:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNNXzA4K.png&hash=2e7bf71dac6d9bd7d056c171c8ff33a6d7381a6f)
Unless someone explicitly told me what that sign meant, I would never figure out that it means "end of road".
Quote from: Zeffy on August 02, 2015, 05:54:35 PM
Unless someone explicitly told me what that sign meant, I would never figure out that it means "end of road".
The context for it means a lot. There's usually a double arrow pointing each way with it.
Quote from: Brandon on August 02, 2015, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on August 02, 2015, 05:54:35 PM
Unless someone explicitly told me what that sign meant, I would never figure out that it means "end of road".
The context for it means a lot. There's usually a double arrow pointing each way with it.
As with any symbol sign, a supplementary plaque would help identify it for the first few years of shelf life.
Quote from: Zeffy on August 02, 2015, 05:54:35 PM
Unless someone explicitly told me what that sign meant, I would never figure out that it means "end of road".
When you wind up in the lake, you'll figure it out.
I've seen various signs like this - normally a solid color and generally in front of you at the end of the road. A car going straight would hit it. IE: https://goo.gl/maps/le86w
^^ MUTCD standard is a diamond, either solid red, red with red reflectors or black with red reflectors.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 02, 2015, 01:25:36 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 02, 2015, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.
Wonder if the checkboard sign would be better if the yellow was in red instead?
Granted, this is just Photoshop, but I think I prefer yellow:
Okay, what about the
black being red instead?
:hmm:
Quote from: D-Dey65 on August 03, 2015, 08:02:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 02, 2015, 01:25:36 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 02, 2015, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.
Wonder if the checkboard sign would be better if the yellow was in red instead?
Granted, this is just Photoshop, but I think I prefer yellow:
Okay, what about the black being red instead?
:hmm:
I figured it would stand out better with a red and
white checkerboard pattern.
I think instead of a specific sign to mark a freeway, that information could have been conveyed by the shield. Right now shields basically convey who maintains the road and how it was funded. The average traveler couldn't care less about that. Back when the system of US highways was created, the US shield served a useful purpose. It meant the road will take you to a faraway destination with minimum inconveniences. When Interstates were introduced the Interstate shield now meant that instead, but the US system was never retired. The state and county systems were added too. Now a US or state route can be a freeway, an expressway, a 2-lane surface road, and there is no way to tell. What if instead you had a freeway shield shape, maybe keep the US shield for non-freeway long-distance routes, and the states can do whatever for their non-freeway routes. The same number can change shields if freeway status of the route changes. Much more useful.
Riiga, I like what you've done with the no passing symbol in the no passing zone pennant. It creates a double symbol sign, if you will. The graphic "no passing" mixed with the pennant's large yellow arrow pointing you back to your side of the road.
Quote from: bzakharin on August 04, 2015, 05:00:15 PM
I think instead of a specific sign to mark a freeway, that information could have been conveyed by the shield. Right now shields basically convey who maintains the road and how it was funded. The average traveler couldn't care less about that. Back when the system of US highways was created, the US shield served a useful purpose. It meant the road will take you to a faraway destination with minimum inconveniences. When Interstates were introduced the Interstate shield now meant that instead, but the US system was never retired. The state and county systems were added too. Now a US or state route can be a freeway, an expressway, a 2-lane surface road, and there is no way to tell. What if instead you had a freeway shield shape, maybe keep the US shield for non-freeway long-distance routes, and the states can do whatever for their non-freeway routes. The same number can change shields if freeway status of the route changes. Much more useful.
Kind of related to this, I have always imagined a Red White and Blue US highway sign for freeway sections. A divided (Expressway) could have another, then put the 2-5 lane city sections as another.
Quote from: intelati49 on August 05, 2015, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on August 04, 2015, 05:00:15 PM
I think instead of a specific sign to mark a freeway, that information could have been conveyed by the shield. Right now shields basically convey who maintains the road and how it was funded. The average traveler couldn't care less about that. Back when the system of US highways was created, the US shield served a useful purpose. It meant the road will take you to a faraway destination with minimum inconveniences. When Interstates were introduced the Interstate shield now meant that instead, but the US system was never retired. The state and county systems were added too. Now a US or state route can be a freeway, an expressway, a 2-lane surface road, and there is no way to tell. What if instead you had a freeway shield shape, maybe keep the US shield for non-freeway long-distance routes, and the states can do whatever for their non-freeway routes. The same number can change shields if freeway status of the route changes. Much more useful.
Kind of related to this, I have always imagined a Red White and Blue US highway sign for freeway sections. A divided (Expressway) could have another, then put the 2-5 lane city sections as another.
How would US 4 between Concord NH and Portsmouth NH be handled?
1. Is a red-white-blue US 4 shield redundant with I-93 and I-393 already having an Interstate shield with those colors?
2. Where does the expressway begin on the east end? NH 125? NH 155A? Is the section from NH 125 to NH 16 not an expressway at all despite interchanges?
Quote from: 1 on August 05, 2015, 03:07:19 PM
Quote from: intelati49 on August 05, 2015, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on August 04, 2015, 05:00:15 PM
<clipped for length>
Kind of related to this, I have always imagined a Red White and Blue US highway sign for freeway sections. A divided (Expressway) could have another, then put the 2-5 lane city sections as another.
How would US 4 between Concord NH and Portsmouth NH be handled?
1. Is a red-white-blue US 4 shield redundant with I-93 and I-393 already having an Interstate shield with those colors?
2. Where does the expressway begin on the east end? NH 125? NH 155A? Is the section from NH 125 to NH 16 not an expressway at all despite interchanges?
If we were to change the system so that each type of road were to have a different color, like the UK (blue for motorways, green for primary roads, orange for secondary, etc), we'd probably have to develop a whole new set of shields.
Quote from: riiga on July 29, 2015, 04:51:13 AM
I'd really like the US to adopt the most important designs in the Vienna Convention as seen in the same image above with the crosswalk sign, priority over another vehicle on a one-lane road, etc. And maybe the biggest change would come in the changing of speed limit signs to add the red circle and the addition of proper mandatory signage.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24401393/Amerikanska/Forbudsexempel-01.png)
I disagree about the speed limit signs. Speed limit signs with a red circle are already standard in the US for metric speeds, although they are rarely used. I think that's the way to do it - keep the red circle signs for metric limits but leave the current design for mph limits. It will help eliminate confusion if we ever do switch over.
Australia did the same thing. They used to use American style speed signs, then replaced them with red circle signs when they went metric. That's why they put their red circle speed limits on rectangular signs - they match the size of the old US-style mph signs.
Quote from: 1 on August 05, 2015, 03:07:19 PM
Quote from: intelati49 on August 05, 2015, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on August 04, 2015, 05:00:15 PM
I think instead of a specific sign to mark a freeway, that information could have been conveyed by the shield. Right now shields basically convey who maintains the road and how it was funded. The average traveler couldn't care less about that. Back when the system of US highways was created, the US shield served a useful purpose. It meant the road will take you to a faraway destination with minimum inconveniences. When Interstates were introduced the Interstate shield now meant that instead, but the US system was never retired. The state and county systems were added too. Now a US or state route can be a freeway, an expressway, a 2-lane surface road, and there is no way to tell. What if instead you had a freeway shield shape, maybe keep the US shield for non-freeway long-distance routes, and the states can do whatever for their non-freeway routes. The same number can change shields if freeway status of the route changes. Much more useful.
Kind of related to this, I have always imagined a Red White and Blue US highway sign for freeway sections. A divided (Expressway) could have another, then put the 2-5 lane city sections as another.
How would US 4 between Concord NH and Portsmouth NH be handled?
1. Is a red-white-blue US 4 shield redundant with I-93 and I-393 already having an Interstate shield with those colors?
2. Where does the expressway begin on the east end? NH 125? NH 155A? Is the section from NH 125 to NH 16 not an expressway at all despite interchanges?
Several years ago, I hypothesized up a great renumbering of the Interstate/US highway system.
The basic premise was that having two separate federal numbering systems was redundant, especially given the political importance given to having red-white-and-blue interstate shields on local roads versus black-and-white US highway shields, even though the road itself might be unchanged or a logical upgrade. Put another way, is there any real value to renumbering a road as "22" with a different-colored shield when "78" works just as well?
Highway numbers within the system would be somewhat British in flavor:
X### = a road that is "interstate class", connecting to another "interstate class" highway, which is completely "interstate class" between two X/A/B highways or its terminus. (I.e., a random patch of freeway out in the middle of nowhere wouldn't get an X-class number/shield.)
A### = a road that is an expressway or sub-standard freeway, connecting to another X/A class road, which is X or A class between two X/A/B highways or its terminus (excluding roads that meet X-class criteria).
B### = a normal highway meeting some basic standards, connecting to another X/A/B class road, which is X/A/B class between two X/A/B highways or its terminus (excluding roads that meet X- or A-class criteria).
C### = other roads forming part of the highway system; likely substandard facilities included only to designate links to points of national importance or highways expected to be upgraded to a higher class when demand and resources permit.
Trailblazers could also be color-coded to help designate class.
Highways could change class, but retain their number over long distances. So, for example, rather than having I-99, perhaps the residents of Altoona PA would have been happy with B220 having been upgraded to X220.
(I imagined this as a great renumbering, so 220 wouldn't actually have been the number involved. But going further into those details is way beyond the scope of this thread, aside from mentioning that all federal highways would be 3di's, to reduce the potential impact caused today by politicians seeking one of the limited number of 2di's for their constituents.)
Quote from: realjd on August 06, 2015, 08:14:47 AM
It will help eliminate confusion if we ever do switch over.
Which we won't. I wish we would but there's just no push for it anymore.
Quote from: realjd on August 06, 2015, 08:14:47 AM
Speed limit signs with a red circle are already standard in the US for metric speeds, although they are rarely used.
I don't see any metric speed limit signs diagrammed in the 2009 MUTCD; I believe the 2003 MUTCD used a black circle.
^^ Correct, all Metric references were removed in the 2009 edition
Quote from: vdeane on August 07, 2015, 01:01:32 PM
Quote from: realjd on August 06, 2015, 08:14:47 AM
Speed limit signs with a red circle are already standard in the US for metric speeds, although they are rarely used.
I don't see any metric speed limit signs diagrammed in the 2009 MUTCD; I believe the 2003 MUTCD used a black circle.
Didn't know it was removed as an option and didn't remember it using a black circle. There are metric speed limits posted occasionally here in FL and usually they use a supplemental red circle below the regular speed limit sign.
Yeah, Florida used (uses?) these:
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/metric-in-florida.jpg)
Here taken from a Swedish travel program in the late 80s showing them as a curiosity and a way for Europeans to feel at home when visiting Florida.
This is the MUTCD one used at the Ogdensburg-Prescott Bridge (had to see unless you zoom in): http://nysroads.com/images/gallery/NY/ny812/100_6498.JPG
Quote from: riiga on August 07, 2015, 05:00:08 PM
Here taken from a Swedish travel program in the late 80s showing them as a curiosity and a way for Europeans to feel at home when visiting Florida.
Please send me a link to that video. I probably won't understand any of it, but I'd still like to see it.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 07, 2015, 11:57:55 PM
Quote from: riiga on August 07, 2015, 05:00:08 PM
Here taken from a Swedish travel program in the late 80s showing them as a curiosity and a way for Europeans to feel at home when visiting Florida.
Please send me a link to that video. I probably won't understand any of it, but I'd still like to see it.
Unfortunately the video is only available online to those with a Swedish IP, but I've managed to save a copy of the video and can send it to you through Skype if you want. ;-)
Also a green circle is used to indicate a "hazardous Materials" route and a red circle with a slash circle through it indicates where hazardous materials are not permitted, each with the letters "HM" inside them.
Quote from: cl94 on August 09, 2015, 04:05:43 PM
...Ohio uses a green circle to indicate when a movement is allowed.
Indeed they do! I was not aware of municipalities that used green circles to indicate permissive movements:
https://goo.gl/iqVH2w
In Seattle, and other places nearby, the white arrow on black background can be seen on some overhead arrow-per-lane installations:
https://goo.gl/MFp60p
Count me in the pro-red circle for speed limits crowd.
I doubt this will happen anytime soon, but I would like to see climate zone boundary signs tried somewhere, even if they are not added to the MUTCD straight away. I live in Cfa but am within 150 miles' driving distance of BSk and Dfa.
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 09, 2015, 09:36:42 PM
I doubt this will happen anytime soon, but I would like to see climate zone boundary signs tried somewhere, even if they are not added to the MUTCD straight away. I live in Cfa but am within 150 miles' driving distance of BSk and Dfa.
O.o