a freeway and an expressway, or what they exactly are? This is considering that each has so many definitions. :confused:
Simple answer,
Expressway is a controlled access route (no private driveways or direct business entrances) with some at-grade intersections.
Freeway is limited access with no private driveways or at-grade intersections.
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 03, 2015, 10:52:09 AM
a freeway and an expressway, or what they exactly are? This is considering that each has so many definitions. :confused:
Basically a freeway is a fully limited access roadway while an expressway is a partially limited access route.
Ex. Interstate 75 is a freeway while OH 32 is an expressway. Think of an expressway as a divided highway with a depressed grass median and at least some at-grade intersections. Think of a freeway as a fully controlled access road with
zero at-grade intersections and only interchanges.
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2015, 11:04:22 AM
Simple answer,
Expressway is a controlled access route (no private driveways or direct business entrances) with some at-grade intersections.
Freeway is limited access with no private driveways or at-grade intersections.
In many parts of the country (at least in the northeast); expressways have the same characteristics/are defined the same as freeways.
Examples: neither Boston's Southeast Expressway (I-93) nor Philadelphia's Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) have any at-grade intersections.
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:10:06 AM
In many parts of the country (at least in the northeast); expressways have the same characteristics/are defined the same as freeways.
Examples: neither Boston's Southeast Expressway (I-93) nor Philadelphia's Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) have any at-grade intersections.
I've noticed that too. But don't let the name of the road fool you.
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 03, 2015, 11:13:23 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:10:06 AM
In many parts of the country (at least in the northeast); expressways have the same characteristics/are defined the same as freeways.
Examples: neither Boston's Southeast Expressway (I-93) nor Philadelphia's Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) have any at-grade intersections.
I've noticed that too. But don't let the name of the road fool you.
To tell you the truth, I
never heard the term
Freeway used for any road in the northeast until I moved to the Delaware Valley 25 years ago and such was only used towards
one road... NJ 42 (aka the North-South Freeway).
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:17:34 AM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 03, 2015, 11:13:23 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:10:06 AM
In many parts of the country (at least in the northeast); expressways have the same characteristics/are defined the same as freeways.
Examples: neither Boston's Southeast Expressway (I-93) nor Philadelphia's Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) have any at-grade intersections.
I've noticed that too. But don't let the name of the road fool you.
To tell you the truth, I never heard the term Freeway used for any road in the northeast until I moved to the Delaware Valley 25 years ago and such was only used towards one road... NJ 42 (aka the North-South Freeway).
The northeast seems to be the main people who use "expressway" instead of freeway. Cincinnati seems to do that too but they don't sign their freeways by name EVER.
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 03, 2015, 11:13:23 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:10:06 AM
In many parts of the country (at least in the northeast); expressways have the same characteristics/are defined the same as freeways.
Examples: neither Boston's Southeast Expressway (I-93) nor Philadelphia's Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) have any at-grade intersections.
I've noticed that too. But don't let the name of the road fool you.
Not fooled. That's what "expressway" means in the Northeast. Language fluidity and all that.
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:10:06 AM
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2015, 11:04:22 AM
Simple answer,
Expressway is a controlled access route (no private driveways or direct business entrances) with some at-grade intersections.
Freeway is limited access with no private driveways or at-grade intersections.
In many parts of the country (at least in the northeast); expressways have the same characteristics/are defined the same as freeways.
Examples: neither Boston's Southeast Expressway (I-93) nor Philadelphia's Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) have any at-grade intersections.
Conversely, some roads called "freeways" have at-grade intersections that would ordinarily make them "expressways". San Diego's old South Bay Freeway (CA 54, since upgraded to full freeway standards) comes to mind.
Even if there were official definitions of "freeway" and "expressway", there are regional variations on how well they are followed. So the better question is how those terms are defined in a specific place or region.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on August 03, 2015, 11:20:08 AM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 03, 2015, 11:13:23 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:10:06 AM
In many parts of the country (at least in the northeast); expressways have the same characteristics/are defined the same as freeways.
Examples: neither Boston's Southeast Expressway (I-93) nor Philadelphia's Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) have any at-grade intersections.
I've noticed that too. But don't let the name of the road fool you.
Not fooled. That's what "expressway" means in the Northeast. Language fluidity and all that.
Not really. Not in the Philadelphia area anyway. Expressway is just part of the name, just like Freeway is for NJ 42. Depending where you are "The Expressway" may be the Schuylkill Expressway in Philly proper or the Atlantic City Expressway in South Jersey. There's no such thing as a generic expressway here. They're all "highways" if they're any kind off limited access or even just multi-lane.
Yeah people generally say highway or expressway around here. I very rarely hear anyone say freeway.
To me and probably most of Europe,
Freeway = (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/Sweden_road_sign_E1.svg/24px-Sweden_road_sign_E1.svg.png) Motorway, limited-access, grade-separated, and divided with at least 2+2 lanes.
Expressway = (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Sweden_road_sign_E3.svg/24px-Sweden_road_sign_E3.svg.png) Motorroad, limited-access and grade-separated but not necessarily divided.
Why would you have a fully grade separated, limited access highway that is undivided? I would think separating opposite direction movements would do more for safety, not to mention be cheaper to implement, than removing 90 degree crossings.
Quote from: oscar on August 03, 2015, 11:22:15 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:10:06 AM
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2015, 11:04:22 AM
Simple answer,
Expressway is a controlled access route (no private driveways or direct business entrances) with some at-grade intersections.
Freeway is limited access with no private driveways or at-grade intersections.
In many parts of the country (at least in the northeast); expressways have the same characteristics/are defined the same as freeways.
Examples: neither Boston's Southeast Expressway (I-93) nor Philadelphia's Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) have any at-grade intersections.
Conversely, some roads called "freeways" have at-grade intersections that would ordinarily make them "expressways". San Diego's old South Bay Freeway (CA 54, since upgraded to full freeway standards) comes to mind.
....
West Virginia indeed posts yellow warning signs saying "freeway ends" on some roads that have at-grade intersections. US-340 between Charles Town and Harpers Ferry is one example–eastbound, it narrows to a two-lane road after you pass the sign in question.
Around here, when people are asked about freeways vs. expressways, they say expressways is right and that freeways are a California thing.
Quote from: bzakharin on August 03, 2015, 01:18:20 PM
Why would you have a fully grade separated, limited access highway that is undivided? I would think separating opposite direction movements would do more for safety, not to mention be cheaper to implement, than removing 90 degree crossings.
Separating the traffic flow is indeed a much better option in terms of safety, but back in the day they were very common as a form of budget motorways. Because they were undivded you could still pass slower vehicles and often fit three vehicles in total due to the wide shoulders used, however this lead to a lot of head-on collisions. Nowadays almost all of them have been replaced by 2+1 roads (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/MMLNorr1.JPG) where you have alternating passing lanes. Due to the design of the older undivided expressways with wide shoulders most 2+1 roads in Sweden could be built by just repainting lines and putting up a barrier, saving a lot of money and lives at the same time.
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 03, 2015, 11:19:05 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:17:34 AM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 03, 2015, 11:13:23 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:10:06 AM
In many parts of the country (at least in the northeast); expressways have the same characteristics/are defined the same as freeways.
Examples: neither Boston's Southeast Expressway (I-93) nor Philadelphia's Schuylkill Expressway (I-76) have any at-grade intersections.
I've noticed that too. But don't let the name of the road fool you.
To tell you the truth, I never heard the term Freeway used for any road in the northeast until I moved to the Delaware Valley 25 years ago and such was only used towards one road... NJ 42 (aka the North-South Freeway).
The northeast seems to be the main people who use "expressway" instead of freeway. Cincinnati seems to do that too but they don't sign their freeways by name EVER.
Jacksonville Florida people used expressway, at least natives.. Which there are few. ( other cities in Florida as well. The Orlando Orange County- now Central Florida expressway authority or the Miami Dade expressway authority)
I think because when the expressway system was built it was tolled, freeway implied a " free" road
For me, to call it an expressway, it has to have very few, if any, lights on it. For instance, I won't count US22 in western PA from I-376 to roughly Blairsville. From Blairsville to US219 near Ebensburg, I'd call it an expressway. It's a freeway east of Ebensburg.
Now, I would call US1 north of the freeway north of the Tobin Bridge in Boston until you reach I-95. For the few lights you have on it (I remember 3 or so), it by far is the most expeditious route north out of the downtown without going I-93.
Quote from: Sykotyk on August 03, 2015, 06:55:50 PM
Now, I would call US1 north of the freeway north of the Tobin Bridge in Boston until you reach I-95. For the few lights you have on it (I remember 3 or so), it by far is the most expeditious route north out of the downtown without going I-93.
Should be only 1 spot with traffic lights.
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2015, 11:04:22 AM
Simple answer,
Expressway is a controlled access route (no private driveways or direct business entrances) with some at-grade intersections.
Freeway is limited access with no private driveways or at-grade intersections.
This is the engineering definition, which many forum members here use (myself included). As others have noted, your local vernacular will vary...
So it would be the Atlantic City Freeway?
Expressway does have a bit of a weight to it...it does say that it will take you there faster than the regular roads.
Just because the name of the road ends in Road, Street, Avenue, Boulevard, Parkway, Terrace, Pike, Highway, Expressway, Freeway, Beltway, Bypass, or Gateway, it doesn't mean the road is that thing. It's just the name.
That said, there's general agreement across the country about what a "freeway" is, even if it's named something else or if another word is commonly used to describe that class of road. The engineer's definition of a freeway is the same. An engineer's "expressway" is almost like a freeway, except at-grade intersections with public roads are allowed. These intersections may have traffic signals, too, though this may be less than ideal in most cases. Technically, every freeway is also an expressway – just like every square is also a rectangle – but not vice versa.
When an engineer or a roadgeek or the MUTCD wants to refer to a road that is not an expressway or freeway, the term is "conventional road".
a road is a road is a road is a road is a road is a road is a road is a road is a road.
Quote from: 1 on August 03, 2015, 07:01:10 PM
Quote from: Sykotyk on August 03, 2015, 06:55:50 PM
Now, I would call US1 north of the freeway north of the Tobin Bridge in Boston until you reach I-95. For the few lights you have on it (I remember 3 or so), it by far is the most expeditious route north out of the downtown without going I-93.
Should be only 1 spot with traffic lights.
There is only one traffic light (the jughandle in Peabody between the I-95/MA 128 and the partial I-95 interchanges).
Again, and this was mentioned in another related-thread; US 1 north of MA 60 is
not, repeat
not a full-blown limited-access freeway. It's more of an arterial,
Jersey-type freeway.
Quote from: froggie on August 03, 2015, 11:40:14 PM
Quote from: Alex on August 03, 2015, 11:04:22 AM
Simple answer,
Expressway is a controlled access route (no private driveways or direct business entrances) with some at-grade intersections.
Freeway is limited access with no private driveways or at-grade intersections.
This is the engineering definition, which many forum members here use (myself included). As others have noted, your local vernacular will vary...
I've always gone by the MUTCD definition of "expressway," which simply says, "a divided highway with partial control of access" (US DOT and FHWA,
MUTCD, 2009 ed., http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2009r1r2/mutcd2009r1part1.pdf, Section 1A.13). This definition says nothing about whether the road has private driveways or business entrances, but it does say that it needs to be divided in order to be an expressway (which means Super 2s are typically only a subset of conventional roads).
"Partial control of access" means no driveways or business entrances. Allowing driveways or business entrances would be uncontrolled access, even when there are limitations imposed on spacing and such.
Is it accurate to say that, as far as the FHWA is concerned, a "Jersey freeway" isn't a freeway, isn't an expressway...isn't anything beyond a high-volume divided highway with grade separation?
Quote from: riiga on August 03, 2015, 01:03:01 PM
To me and probably most of Europe,
Freeway = (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/Sweden_road_sign_E1.svg/24px-Sweden_road_sign_E1.svg.png) Motorway, limited-access, grade-separated, and divided with at least 2+2 lanes.
Expressway = (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Sweden_road_sign_E3.svg/24px-Sweden_road_sign_E3.svg.png) Motorroad, limited-access and grade-separated but not necessarily divided.
Not in Spain. There is one reason why I avoid to use the word 'freeway'. We also have that distintion, but for many 'autopista' means tolled and 'autovía' means not tolled. This leads me not to translate 'autopista' to 'freeway' due to the confusing meaning of 'free'. But there are also toll-free autopistas! A few, but they do exists. And since new autovías are built mostly to the autopista standard, I decided to drop the word 'autovía' when referring to the
freeways expressways of Spain. (I actually translate 'autopista' to 'motorway'. but since that word is not widely used in the US, here I use 'expressway' instead)
In Ohio, it's perfectly sensible to say the Turnpike is a tolled freeway.
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 04, 2015, 03:00:04 PM
"Partial control of access" means no driveways or business entrances. Allowing driveways or business entrances would be uncontrolled access, even when there are limitations imposed on spacing and such.
That is not a universal definition, and this has been discussed before (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1012.msg104501#msg104501). I do contend, however, that the distinction between access to public versus private roads is irrelevant. I believe the purpose of the categorization of types of roads is to describe their physical characteristics, rather than the legal details of who owns the roads that are directly accessible from the road in question. Furthermore, not all business entrances are created equal, as many are in the form of thoroughly engineered intersections that are physically indistinguishable from intersections between public roads.
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 03, 2015, 11:17:34 AM
To tell you the truth, I never heard the term Freeway used for any road in the northeast until I moved to the Delaware Valley 25 years ago and such was only used towards one road... NJ 42 (aka the North-South Freeway).
Then there's the Rockaway Freeway, which looks like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.592462,-73.788804,3a,75y,249.5h,81.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sER_k_L7AmpN9JgxfmEBmqg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664).
This road predates the modern definition of the word "freeway", and what it is "free" of is railroad grade crossings. The rail line elevated above it (now part of the subway, originally built by LIRR) formerly ran at ground level.
Quote from: bzakharin on August 03, 2015, 01:18:20 PM
Why would you have a fully grade separated, limited access highway that is undivided? I would think separating opposite direction movements would do more for safety, not to mention be cheaper to implement, than removing 90 degree crossings.
Not necessarily. Dividing a highway avoids head on collisions but grade separating it avoids right angle collisions. Depending on traffic counts and local geometry the latter could well do more for safety than the former.
An undivided limited access "super 2" is also easier to upgrade to a full freeway at a later date than a divided 4-lane expressway, because the grade separations are already in place.
Look at A-50 in Quebec for a good example. It's useful as a high speed route from Gatineau to Laval but traffic counts on the corridor are low enough that 4 lanes are not required for good operation. To save money, Quebec built some sections of it as 2 lanes undivided with provision for future twinning. As things stand it is functionally a freeway the whole way but if it had been built divided the whole way rather than grade separated, it probably would not see all its intersections eliminated in the foreseeable future if ever.
Keeping it only 2 lanes also keeps winter maintenance costs down.
Quote from: bzakharin on August 03, 2015, 01:18:20 PM
Why would you have a fully grade separated, limited access highway that is undivided? I would think separating opposite direction movements would do more for safety, not to mention be cheaper to implement, than removing 90 degree crossings.
You are apparently not aware of it, but a long section of I-95 in Maine (roughly Bangor to Houlton) was originally built as a Super-2 road - with full access control, but undivided and no barrier in the middle.
There were sections of other Interstates in the West that were originally built as Super-2s, as was the West Virginia Turnpike.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 04, 2015, 11:11:40 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on August 03, 2015, 01:18:20 PM
Why would you have a fully grade separated, limited access highway that is undivided? I would think separating opposite direction movements would do more for safety, not to mention be cheaper to implement, than removing 90 degree crossings.
You are apparently not aware of it, but a long section of I-95 in Maine (roughly Bangor to Houlton) was originally built as a Super-2 road - with full access control, but undivided and no barrier in the middle.
There were sections of other Interstates in the West that were originally built as Super-2s, as was the West Virginia Turnpike.
I-93 is the closest to such in NH - though it does have a median barrier.
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 04, 2015, 03:00:04 PM
"Partial control of access" means no driveways or business entrances. Allowing driveways or business entrances would be uncontrolled access, even when there are limitations imposed on spacing and such.
Try telling that to those on WIS-29, US-151, US-51 in Lincoln County WI and US-52 in SE Minnesota.
In most of the northeast, "expressway" is the term used for full control of access. The use of "freeway" is limited to the aforementioned exceptions. Heck, in Buffalo, many people refer to all limited-access highways as "thruways". Honestly, I never heard "freeway" outside of the Rockaway Freeway until I moved to Columbus. Typically, I'll use "divided highway" when referring to a road without full control of access, just because in my line of work, the public needs to understand what we're talking about.
It just donned on me that growing up, people didn't refer to I-91 as a freeway or an expressway or even a highway. Although "I-91" was common, people also just said, "Get on the interstate..."
Quote from: cl94 on August 05, 2015, 01:00:35 PM
Heck, in Buffalo, many people refer to all limited-access highways as "thruways".
I wouldn't be surprised if that's because NYSTA maintains a disproportionate amount of Buffalo's expressways.
Quote from: vdeane on August 05, 2015, 01:10:00 PM
Quote from: cl94 on August 05, 2015, 01:00:35 PM
Heck, in Buffalo, many people refer to all limited-access highways as "thruways".
I wouldn't be surprised if that's because NYSTA maintains a disproportionate amount of Buffalo's expressways.
Likely. I once heard someone give directions to Pittsburgh as "take the 90 thruway to the 79 thruway south to the 279 thruway". A little part of me died upon hearing that. Seems to be most prevalent in the eastern suburbs.
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 04, 2015, 11:29:21 PM
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 04, 2015, 03:00:04 PM
"Partial control of access" means no driveways or business entrances. Allowing driveways or business entrances would be uncontrolled access, even when there are limitations imposed on spacing and such.
Try telling that to those on WIS-29, US-151, US-51 in Lincoln County WI and US-52 in SE Minnesota.
Done. Not sure they heard me though. I think the problem is with the MUTCD definition of expressway requiring access control, not the definition of access control itself. Like Wisconsin, Texas has a bunch of roads that function as expressways in rural areas but don't meet that particular requirement because it isn't worth the expense of building frontage roads or proper cross streets to serve a farm. Requirements for access control on expressways make sense in urban areas, not so much in rural areas.
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 05, 2015, 04:45:46 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 04, 2015, 11:29:21 PM
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 04, 2015, 03:00:04 PM
"Partial control of access" means no driveways or business entrances. Allowing driveways or business entrances would be uncontrolled access, even when there are limitations imposed on spacing and such.
Try telling that to those on WIS-29, US-151, US-51 in Lincoln County WI and US-52 in SE Minnesota.
Done. Not sure they heard me though. I think the problem is with the MUTCD definition of expressway requiring access control, not the definition of access control itself. Like Wisconsin, Texas has a bunch of roads that function as expressways in rural areas but don't meet that particular requirement because it isn't worth the expense of building frontage roads or proper cross streets to serve a farm. Requirements for access control on expressways make sense in urban areas, not so much in rural areas.
In the 70s and 80s, Wisconsin would upgrade roads to freeway standards and it would cost the state a lot of money. The objective was to have continuous flow traffic without stops. In the 90s, Wisconsin focused more on upgrading roads to expressway standards on existing alignments and upgrading to freeway standards on new alignments, mainly bypasses around towns. They figured they could still have continuous traffic flow like a freeway even with some intersections and driveways. For example, Wis 29 has a 65 mph speed limit with no stops between I-94 and I-41, a distance of about 195 miles. The road has the traffic flow of a freeway, but was built on a smaller budget with access points that minimally affect the flow of traffic. I drove in Alabama a few years ago, and the 4 lane roads there are terrible compared to Wisconsin. When I was there, I had traffic signals, passed through towns where I had to slow down, and the traffic flow was not smooth. Wisconsin eliminates those stops and slowdowns when constructing expressways.
Quote from: peterj920 on August 05, 2015, 09:19:35 PM
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 05, 2015, 04:45:46 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 04, 2015, 11:29:21 PM
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 04, 2015, 03:00:04 PM
"Partial control of access" means no driveways or business entrances. Allowing driveways or business entrances would be uncontrolled access, even when there are limitations imposed on spacing and such.
Try telling that to those on WIS-29, US-151, US-51 in Lincoln County WI and US-52 in SE Minnesota.
Done. Not sure they heard me though. I think the problem is with the MUTCD definition of expressway requiring access control, not the definition of access control itself. Like Wisconsin, Texas has a bunch of roads that function as expressways in rural areas but don't meet that particular requirement because it isn't worth the expense of building frontage roads or proper cross streets to serve a farm. Requirements for access control on expressways make sense in urban areas, not so much in rural areas.
In the 70s and 80s, Wisconsin would upgrade roads to freeway standards and it would cost the state a lot of money. The objective was to have continuous flow traffic without stops. In the 90s, Wisconsin focused more on upgrading roads to expressway standards on existing alignments and upgrading to freeway standards on new alignments, mainly bypasses around towns. They figured they could still have continuous traffic flow like a freeway even with some intersections and driveways. For example, Wis 29 has a 65 mph speed limit with no stops between I-94 and I-41, a distance of about 195 miles. The road has the traffic flow of a freeway, but was built on a smaller budget with access points that minimally affect the flow of traffic. I drove in Alabama a few years ago, and the 4 lane roads there are terrible compared to Wisconsin. When I was there, I had traffic signals, passed through towns where I had to slow down, and the traffic flow was not smooth. Wisconsin eliminates those stops and slowdowns when constructing expressways.
I'm not disagreeing with what they built or why they built it, just that if the definition of expressway requires control of access, that it doesn't meet that definition, and the definition needs more work.
I think it may be easiest to simply recognize that, in practice, varying degrees of access control exist. Different transportation departments have different thresholds for what counts as access control for the purpose of expressway design.
So would Cherry Hill Mall Drive be an expressway by any definition?
http://www.bing.com/mapspreview/?&cp=39.942246~-75.021772&lvl=19&dir=142.745&style=s&pi=-18.43092&mo=z.0&v=2&sV=1&form=S00027
It is clearly divided and has access control by some definitions (Side roads through the shopping center only connect at 2 intersections). Is it a highway? There is no posted speed limit and, although it is not consistently marked, you can fit two lanes in each direction.
Not by my definition. If you removed the intersections and only had on- and off-ramps I guess it would be an expressway, like this:
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/expressway-nj.jpg)
Quote from: bzakharin on August 06, 2015, 12:49:40 PM
So would Cherry Hill Mall Drive be an expressway by any definition?
http://www.bing.com/mapspreview/?&cp=39.942246~-75.021772&lvl=19&dir=142.745&style=s&pi=-18.43092&mo=z.0&v=2&sV=1&form=S00027
It is clearly divided and has access control by some definitions (Side roads through the shopping center only connect at 2 intersections). Is it a highway? There is no posted speed limit and, although it is not consistently marked, you can fit two lanes in each direction.
If there's no posted speed limit, then it defaults to the statutory speed limit which in this case would be 25 mph or 35 mph.
http://www.travelwisconsin.com/pdf/statemap.pdf
Might be a big file to download, but Wisconsin's state map classifies freeways, expressways, and multi-lane divided. The expressways have a speed limit of 65 and have continuous non-stop traffic with access control. The multi-lane divided roads have a speed limit of 55 or lower and may have traffic signals and stops along the way. US 10 between Marshfield and I-39 was opened recently and meets expressway standards, but for some reason was not listed as an expressway even though it should have been. Are there other states that differentiate between expressway and multi-lane divided on their state maps?
Quote from: peterj920 on August 09, 2015, 12:46:53 PM
http://www.travelwisconsin.com/pdf/statemap.pdf
Might be a big file to download, but Wisconsin's state map classifies freeways, expressways, and multi-lane divided. The expressways have a speed limit of 65 and have continuous non-stop traffic with access control. The multi-lane divided roads have a speed limit of 55 or lower and may have traffic signals and stops along the way. US 10 between Marshfield and I-39 was opened recently and meets expressway standards, but for some reason was not listed as an expressway even though it should have been. Are there other states that differentiate between expressway and multi-lane divided on their state maps?
So Wisconsin defines expressways as Jersey freeways? Only intersections that don't cross the mainline are allowed? If so, NJ lumps those in with other non-freeway divided highways (and the speed limit is 55 at most on both)
Peter's slightly off in his definitions. Wisconsin expressways follow the standard engineering definition with partial access control. Namely that private driveways are prohibited but normal at-grade intersections are allowed. They are NOT what the roadgeek community calls "Jersey freeways".
Quote from: peterj920 on August 09, 2015, 12:46:53 PM
http://www.travelwisconsin.com/pdf/statemap.pdf
Might be a big file to download, but Wisconsin's state map classifies freeways, expressways, and multi-lane divided. The expressways have a speed limit of 65 and have continuous non-stop traffic with access control. The multi-lane divided roads have a speed limit of 55 or lower and may have traffic signals and stops along the way. US 10 between Marshfield and I-39 was opened recently and meets expressway standards, but for some reason was not listed as an expressway even though it should have been. Are there other states that differentiate between expressway and multi-lane divided on their state maps?
Heh, whereas Virginia's state map doesn't use either "freeway" or "expressway" and instead refers to "multi-lane divided highways" (with a separate color for "multi-lane toll highways") and designates what people on this forum would call "freeways" as having "access controlled."
(Annoyingly for this purpose, they split the map legend between panes 1 and 2 at the following link.)
http://www.virginiadot.org/travel/maps-state.asp
Locally, the term "expressway" is used for the non-toll freeways in NE Illinois, and "tollway" is used for the tolled freeways. You can even spot examples in movies and TV.
Elwood: We'll be all right if we can just get back on the expressway.
Jake: This don't look like no expressway to me!
Clark: Excuse me, could you please tell me how to get back on the expressway?
Quote from: froggie on August 20, 2015, 09:59:33 AM
Peter's slightly off in his definitions. Wisconsin expressways follow the standard engineering definition with partial access control. Namely that private driveways are prohibited but normal at-grade intersections are allowed. They are NOT what the roadgeek community calls "Jersey freeways".
I should have elaborated more. What I meant by access control is that intersections and driveways are limited and kept to a minimum, but are present. The traffic on the expressway doesn't have to stop at any of the intersections. For example, on US 10 between Marshfield and I-39, WISDOT limited intersections to about a mile apart, and the traffic continuously flows with a 65 mph speed limit with no stops on the mainline. Wis 29 between I-94 and I-41 has intersections and driveways also, but they are also limited and there is non-stop traffic on that section of expressway. The only difference between that expressway and a freeway is the presence of intersections and driveways, otherwise the traffic flow is almost the same without any stops or drop in speed limit. (There was a drop to 55 in the Wausau West area, but more access control was implemented on that stretch and is now signed at 65 mph). Multi-lane divided roads listed on the Wisconsin map like Wis 57 between I-43 and Wis 50 between Lake Geneva and Kenosha have numerous driveways, traffic signals, and sections where the speed limit drops.
Quote from: bzakharin on August 03, 2015, 01:18:20 PM
Why would you have a fully grade separated, limited access highway that is undivided? I would think separating opposite direction movements would do more for safety, not to mention be cheaper to implement, than removing 90 degree crossings.
New Hampshire has been doing this for quite some time. Look at the US 3 bypass around Laconia, the Keene bypass, Hillsborough Bypass, NH 101 in Milford, and, until the 1990s, most of NH 101 between (east of) Manchester and the seacoast.
Granted, these were all pretty much built as bypasses.
Vermont jumped on the bandwagon with VT 289 and, most recently, VT 279.
RI has the Westerly Bypass, though it does have a jersey barrier.
Quote from: shadyjay on August 20, 2015, 10:30:43 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on August 03, 2015, 01:18:20 PM
Why would you have a fully grade separated, limited access highway that is undivided? I would think separating opposite direction movements would do more for safety, not to mention be cheaper to implement, than removing 90 degree crossings.
New Hampshire has been doing this for quite some time. Look at the US 3 bypass around Laconia, the Keene bypass, Hillsborough Bypass, NH 101 in Milford, and, until the 1990s, most of NH 101 between (east of) Manchester and the seacoast.
Granted, these were all pretty much built as bypasses.
Vermont jumped on the bandwagon with VT 289 and, most recently, VT 279.
RI has the Westerly Bypass, though it does have a jersey barrier.
If it's built wide enough, head-ons are less of a concern. A bunch of super twos (i.e. US 33 in SE Ohio) are built with full-width shoulders and 12-foot lanes. Sometimes, you just don't need more than 2 lanes. Removing cross traffic allows for higher speeds, increases safety on the crossroad, and allows slow-moving traffic (i.e. farm vehicles) to cross without slowing everything down or causing an accident. If more lanes are needed at a later date, it can be upgraded to a divided limited-access highway quite easily.
I actually wonder why more places don't have super twos.
Quote from: cl94 on August 20, 2015, 10:36:38 PM
I actually wonder why more places don't have super twos.
Head-on crashes involving attempts to pass. I have a relative that was severely injured in a such a wreck on a Super-2 in one of the Nordic nations.
I have seen Super-2 highways in the U.S. and elsewhere that have a steel barrier (sometimes made of box rail) to deter attempts to pass, but that also means that one slow vehicle will cause a traffic to back up behind it.
So you do what some of the Nordic countries have done and turn 10+12+12+10 into 4+12+12+12+4 with the middle lane serving as a passing lane alternating between each direction every mile or two. Put a continuous rumble strip down the center to alert inattentive drivers if they accidentally cross over.
Indeed, converting super-twos into 2+1 roads is very cheap and reduces fatal accidents almost entirely assuming a central divider is used, typically a wire barrier in Sweden.
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 22, 2015, 03:46:56 PM
10+12+12+10 into 4+12+12+12+4
:confused:
Converting a road from two 10' wide shoulders and two 12' wide travel lanes into two 4' wide shoulders and three 12' wide lanes. Assuming the "full-width shoulders" cl94 was referring to are indeed 10'.
Not sure how the Nordic countries construct their highways, but shoulders on American highways usually have a lot thinner pavement if it is paved since they are supposed to be sparsely used by traffic, so they need to be reconstructed to full depth if they are to be converted to live lanes (being permanent or temporary to accommodate traffic during construction projects)
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 22, 2015, 04:26:51 PM
Converting a road from two 10' wide shoulders and two 12' wide travel lanes into two 4' wide shoulders and three 12' wide lanes. Assuming the "full-width shoulders" cl94 was referring to are indeed 10'.
Ah, it never occurred to me that you meant width in feet. I thought you might be on about number of lanes, but that made no sense and would probably be even easier to mistake in metric as 3+4+4+3 if you leave out the unit. :-P
Our super-twos typically have a shoulder of 2-3 meter on each side and two 4 meter lanes, the total width being 13 meter. This was most commonly converted to three lanes of 3.5 m, a median of 1-1.5 m and the rest shoulder. I've seen some narrower and wider configurations though, both 12.25 m and 14 m.
Quote from: Big John on August 22, 2015, 05:13:41 PM
Not sure how the Nordic countries construct their highways, but shoulders on American highways usually have a lot thinner pavement if it is paved since they are supposed to be sparsely used by traffic, so they need to be reconstructed to full depth if they are to be converted to live lanes (being permanent or temporary to accommodate traffic during construction projects)
I think our roads are the same thickness all the way, however the shoulders aren't repaved as often as the lanes. Some converted roads required reinforcement of the shoulders though which made them more expensive to convert than just repainting and putting up a barrier. Still cheaper than building a motorway by far.
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 22, 2015, 03:46:56 PM
So you do what some of the Nordic countries have done and turn 10+12+12+10 into 4+12+12+12+4 with the middle lane serving as a passing lane alternating between each direction every mile or two. Put a continuous rumble strip down the center to alert inattentive drivers if they accidentally cross over.
Of course, the Nordics do not measure lane widths in feet. ;-) EDIT: As
riiga pointed out.
There are places where the middle lane alternates back and forth to provide a passing lane. I have also seen Super-2's with just one lane in each direction, and nothing more. Rumble strips seem disfavored - a "hard" steel barrier is the preferred solution.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on August 03, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
So it would be the Atlantic City Freeway?
Expressway does have a bit of a weight to it...it does say that it will take you there faster than the regular roads.
I always figured and expressway could be tolled while a freeway was never tolled. Other than that they seemed to be interchangeable here in Maryland and what I saw elsewhere in the midatlantic
Quote from: bsmart on August 31, 2015, 02:07:29 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on August 03, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
So it would be the Atlantic City Freeway?
Expressway does have a bit of a weight to it...it does say that it will take you there faster than the regular roads.
I always figured and expressway could be tolled while a freeway was never tolled. Other than that they seemed to be interchangeable here in Maryland and what I saw elsewhere in the midatlantic
Quote from: bsmart on August 31, 2015, 02:07:29 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on August 03, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
So it would be the Atlantic City Freeway?
Expressway does have a bit of a weight to it...it does say that it will take you there faster than the regular roads.
I always figured and expressway could be tolled while a freeway was never tolled. Other than that they seemed to be interchangeable here in Maryland and what I saw elsewhere in the midatlantic
This may be why the term "freeway" hasn't caught on with the general public (in many places). Also why the difference between "highway" and "expressway" isn't that clear to the public (in many areas). Is "high" better than "express" or vice versa? That's just the consequence of using compositional coinages, I guess.
Quote from: bsmart on August 31, 2015, 02:07:29 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on August 03, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
So it would be the Atlantic City Freeway?
Expressway does have a bit of a weight to it...it does say that it will take you there faster than the regular roads.
I always figured and expressway could be tolled while a freeway was never tolled. Other than that they seemed to be interchangeable here in Maryland and what I saw elsewhere in the midatlantic
Quote from: bsmart on August 31, 2015, 02:07:29 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on August 03, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
So it would be the Atlantic City Freeway?
Expressway does have a bit of a weight to it...it does say that it will take you there faster than the regular roads.
I always figured and expressway could be tolled while a freeway was never tolled. Other than that they seemed to be interchangeable here in Maryland and what I saw elsewhere in the midatlantic
Maryland does not like to call its roads freeways, even those with a functional classification of freeway. The only roads classified as a freeway with that word in the name are the National Freeway (I-68); the Patuxent Freeway (Md. 32 from I-97 to Md. 108); the short section of the Anacostia Freeway (I-295) that is not in D.C.; and the Arundel Freeway (Md. 10).
Other roads functionally classified as freeways (but not called that) include:
Capital Beltway (I-495 and I-95);
Baltimore Beltway (I-695);
JFK Highway (I-95);
John Hanson Highway (U.S. 50 and U.S. 301);
Baltimore National Pike (I-70 and U.S. 40);
Harrisburg Expressway (I-83);
Jones Falls Expressway (I-83);
Dwight D. Eisenhower Highway (I-70 west of Fredrick);
Dwight D. Eisenhower Highway, f/k/a Washington National Pike (I-270);
Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway (I-895); and
InterCounty Connector (Md. 200).
I learned this from the AARoads glossary last night.