The corridor I'm referring to: Chicago Skyway (I-90), Indiana Toll Road (I-90 and part of I-80), Ohio Turnpike (I-80, then I-76), Pennsylvania Turnpike (I-76), Pennsylvania Turnpike Extension (I-276).
I think it's a single toll road because it doesn't involve changing freeways* (even though it changes numbers, see I-76/80 in Ohio). It smoothly transitions from one state into another.
Also, from one end at the New Jersey Turnpike to the other end in Chicago, the fastest route is to take this corridor.
*Yes, it's a freeway, even though it's tolled.
No, they are all separate toll roads, operated by separate agencies.
It wouldn't be any different if we said Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey was one toll road either.
Quote from: 1 on August 15, 2015, 09:46:14 AM
The corridor I'm referring to: Chicago Skyway (I-90), Indiana Toll Road (I-90 and part of I-80), Ohio Turnpike (I-80, then I-76), Pennsylvania Turnpike (I-76), Pennsylvania Turnpike Extension (I-276).
I think it's a single toll road because it doesn't involve changing freeways* (even though it changes numbers, see I-76/80 in Ohio). It smoothly transitions from one state into another.
Also, from one end at the New Jersey Turnpike to the other end in Chicago, the fastest route is to take this corridor.
*Yes, it's a freeway, even though it's tolled.
I would consider that it is one toll "system" via ezpass. It is like one store accepting another store's gift cards/credit card. The only two that really have to work together is the NJ and PA turnpike due to sharing a bridge.
Keep in mind that until late 2009 the Ohio Tpk did not accept E-Z Pass - the last in the series to to join the agency. It was long after the other authorities joined E-Z Pass.
It's "one road" to about the same extent as I-55 is "one road" from Louisiana to Chicago. Except it doesn't have an official unifying name or designation.
Is the road continuously tolled from the NJ Turnpike to the end of the Chicago Skyway? I don't think so because isn't there a free section of the Penna Pike near the OH border? Otherwise I'm pretty sure it is continuously tolled.
No separate for sure, but the idea of all of them linking was to provide a freeway connection between New York and Chicago before the interstates (primarily I-80) were created.
BTW I-80 is faster than heading down near Trenton, NJ and then heading west. Also cheaper too now that PTC is charging so much to cross the Keystone State. I traveled I-80 myself across PA and its not that bad of road to use either, but definitely shorter and more direct.
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 15, 2015, 11:13:02 AM
Keep in mind that until late 2009 the Ohio Tpk did not accept E-Z Pass - the last in the series to to join the agency. It was long after the other authorities joined E-Z Pass.
And it was a glorious day when it did.
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 15, 2015, 02:34:13 PM
Is the road continuously tolled from the NJ Turnpike to the end of the Chicago Skyway? I don't think so because isn't there a free section of the Penna Pike near the OH border? Otherwise I'm pretty sure it is continuously tolled.
Kind of a free system if you stay of the main line you can thing of it being fully tolled it used to be full ticket there. But you can ride for free from ramp to ramp but one exit links to an other toll road + some local links.
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 15, 2015, 02:34:13 PM
Is the road continuously tolled from the NJ Turnpike to the end of the Chicago Skyway? I don't think so because isn't there a free section of the Penna Pike near the OH border? Otherwise I'm pretty sure it is continuously tolled.
The stretch between I-79/US 19 and I-376/PA 351 (all of 2 exits) is free. At the western end, it's only free if you're going to/from PA 351. Unless you're going to the race track, you're going to pay a toll anyway.
A quick read on Wikipedia about the Indiana, Ohio and Penna toll roads suggests that the idea of a limited access road started in PA in the mid 1930s, and with WPA money, a few sections were completed before the start of WWII. The PA and Ohio Turnpikes, and the Indiana East-West Toll Road were completed before the Interstate Highway system was created, so the distinct roads were allowed to maintain their tolls, and I understand it.
Quote from: cl94 on August 15, 2015, 11:30:14 PM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 15, 2015, 02:34:13 PM
Is the road continuously tolled from the NJ Turnpike to the end of the Chicago Skyway? I don't think so because isn't there a free section of the Penna Pike near the OH border? Otherwise I'm pretty sure it is continuously tolled.
The stretch between I-79/US 19 and I-376/PA 351 (all of 2 exits) is free. At the western end, it's only free if you're going to/from PA 351. Unless you're going to the race track, you're going to pay a toll anyway.
3 exits. Don't forget the one for PA-18 (Exit #13).
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 17, 2015, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: cl94 on August 15, 2015, 11:30:14 PM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 15, 2015, 02:34:13 PM
Is the road continuously tolled from the NJ Turnpike to the end of the Chicago Skyway? I don't think so because isn't there a free section of the Penna Pike near the OH border? Otherwise I'm pretty sure it is continuously tolled.
The stretch between I-79/US 19 and I-376/PA 351 (all of 2 exits) is free. At the western end, it's only free if you're going to/from PA 351. Unless you're going to the race track, you're going to pay a toll anyway.
3 exits. Don't forget the one for PA-18 (Exit #13).
Counted it. Can't be on for longer than 2 exits if you want to avoid the toll.
I know this is off topic but does anyone else think that i80 i90 wasn't the best toll road choice for IN. Maybe around Gary it could be one, but I find that i69 or i65 would be much better options. i69 being a toll road would piss off everyone in fort wayne, but would rake in boatloads of cash. I80 i90 doesnt cover enough decent sized cities in indiana
Quote from: cl94 on August 17, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 17, 2015, 09:27:06 PM
Quote from: cl94 on August 15, 2015, 11:30:14 PM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 15, 2015, 02:34:13 PM
Is the road continuously tolled from the NJ Turnpike to the end of the Chicago Skyway? I don't think so because isn't there a free section of the Penna Pike near the OH border? Otherwise I'm pretty sure it is continuously tolled.
The stretch between I-79/US 19 and I-376/PA 351 (all of 2 exits) is free. At the western end, it's only free if you're going to/from PA 351. Unless you're going to the race track, you're going to pay a toll anyway.
3 exits. Don't forget the one for PA-18 (Exit #13).
Counted it. Can't be on for longer than 2 exits if you want to avoid the toll.
True.
Quote from: rellimsukram on August 17, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
I know this is off topic but does anyone else think that i80 i90 wasn't the best toll road choice for IN. Maybe around Gary it could be one, but I find that i69 or i65 would be much better options. i69 being a toll road would piss off everyone in fort wayne, but would rake in boatloads of cash. I80 i90 doesnt cover enough decent sized cities in indiana
When Ohio finished the Turnpike to the Indiana border, the Toll Road needed to be completed to Chicago. At that time, the intent was to connect the two largest cities in the US (New York and Chicago)
My understanding Indiana was planning a North - South Toll Road along roughly what became I65 when the Interstate Highway system was announced. Ohio was planning the same for what is now the I-71 corridor.
Quote from: ysuindy on August 17, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: rellimsukram on August 17, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
I know this is off topic but does anyone else think that i80 i90 wasn't the best toll road choice for IN. Maybe around Gary it could be one, but I find that i69 or i65 would be much better options. i69 being a toll road would piss off everyone in fort wayne, but would rake in boatloads of cash. I80 i90 doesnt cover enough decent sized cities in indiana
When Ohio finished the Turnpike to the Indiana border, the Toll Road needed to be completed to Chicago. At that time, the intent was to connect the two largest cities in the US (New York and Chicago)
My understanding Indiana was planning a North - South Toll Road along roughly what became I65 when the Interstate Highway system was announced. Ohio was planning the same for what is now the I-71 corridor.
what was the plan for the I-294 / TOLL US 41 / maybe even a toll I-80 to IN TOLL WAY LINK back then? Better linkage? Better linkages with a toll I-65? The interstate system ended a lot of the toll plans.
Quote from: rellimsukram on August 17, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
I know this is off topic but does anyone else think that i80 i90 wasn't the best toll road choice for IN. Maybe around Gary it could be one, but I find that i69 or i65 would be much better options. i69 being a toll road would piss off everyone in fort wayne, but would rake in boatloads of cash. I80 i90 doesnt cover enough decent sized cities in indiana
I think the theory is that the IN Toll Road captures tolls from a greater percentage of out-of-state people who are driving across the state more than citizens of Indiana.
Quote from: Rothman on August 15, 2015, 09:39:03 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 15, 2015, 11:13:02 AM
Keep in mind that until late 2009 the Ohio Tpk did not accept E-Z Pass - the last in the series to to join the agency. It was long after the other authorities joined E-Z Pass.
And it was a glorious day when it did.
They were very resistant to it, as it was mostly benefiting out-of-state traffic and there was a fairly large upfront cost to install all the equipment. But...they were increasingly getting toll runners that figured the booths had EZ Pass and they would fly thru them. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel had the same issue, and I'm sure other non-EZ Pass entities in the Northeast have this problem as well. The Cape May County Bridge authority doesn't accept EZ Pass, for example.
Quote from: rellimsukram on August 17, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
I know this is off topic but does anyone else think that i80 i90 wasn't the best toll road choice for IN. Maybe around Gary it could be one, but I find that i69 or i65 would be much better options. i69 being a toll road would piss off everyone in fort wayne, but would rake in boatloads of cash. I80 i90 doesnt cover enough decent sized cities in indiana
I have thought if all those toll roads were built soley to serve that one state's cities. Like the OH Turnpike might have been I-71 instead of I-80/I-90.
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 15, 2015, 02:34:13 PM
Is the road continuously tolled from the NJ Turnpike to the end of the Chicago Skyway? I don't think so because isn't there a free section of the Penna Pike near the OH border? Otherwise I'm pretty sure it is continuously tolled.
There is also that one free exit on the OH turnpike before the IN border, and the one free exit on the NJ turnpike before the booth going east.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on August 18, 2015, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on August 15, 2015, 02:34:13 PM
Is the road continuously tolled from the NJ Turnpike to the end of the Chicago Skyway? I don't think so because isn't there a free section of the Penna Pike near the OH border? Otherwise I'm pretty sure it is continuously tolled.
There is also that one free exit on the OH turnpike before the IN border, and the one free exit on the NJ turnpike before the booth going east.
But there's no way to get to these exits without going through the tolled sections. They're similar to the "free" exits on the Illinois Tollway. Those are basically where the tolling regime flips from having entry ramps with tolls (coming from a mainline toll plaza) to having exit ramps with tolls (heading toward a mainline toll plaza).
Quote from: ysuindy on August 17, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: rellimsukram on August 17, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
I know this is off topic but does anyone else think that i80 i90 wasn't the best toll road choice for IN. Maybe around Gary it could be one, but I find that i69 or i65 would be much better options. i69 being a toll road would piss off everyone in fort wayne, but would rake in boatloads of cash. I80 i90 doesnt cover enough decent sized cities in indiana
When Ohio finished the Turnpike to the Indiana border, the Toll Road needed to be completed to Chicago. At that time, the intent was to connect the two largest cities in the US (New York and Chicago)
Which is already done with I-80, even though it doesn't actually go into either city. And I-80 east of the I-76 bump is a free road anyway. However, if you wanted to do an all-toll route between the two, it would require dipping through lower PA (bypassing Pittsburgh and Philly along the way) and then coming back up on the NJ Turnpike.
As for the question indicated in the thread, yes and no. The former is because it is an all-toll facility, and the latter because it is maintained by separate city/state agencies, as previously mentioned.
Quote from: Henry on August 18, 2015, 12:23:37 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on August 17, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: rellimsukram on August 17, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
I know this is off topic but does anyone else think that i80 i90 wasn't the best toll road choice for IN. Maybe around Gary it could be one, but I find that i69 or i65 would be much better options. i69 being a toll road would piss off everyone in fort wayne, but would rake in boatloads of cash. I80 i90 doesnt cover enough decent sized cities in indiana
When Ohio finished the Turnpike to the Indiana border, the Toll Road needed to be completed to Chicago. At that time, the intent was to connect the two largest cities in the US (New York and Chicago)
Which is already done with I-80, even though it doesn't actually go into either city.
I-80 didn't exist when the toll roads were built. You have to think back to the landscape of the 1940's and 50's.
Quote from: Henry on August 18, 2015, 12:23:37 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on August 17, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: rellimsukram on August 17, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
I know this is off topic but does anyone else think that i80 i90 wasn't the best toll road choice for IN. Maybe around Gary it could be one, but I find that i69 or i65 would be much better options. i69 being a toll road would piss off everyone in fort wayne, but would rake in boatloads of cash. I80 i90 doesnt cover enough decent sized cities in indiana
When Ohio finished the Turnpike to the Indiana border, the Toll Road needed to be completed to Chicago. At that time, the intent was to connect the two largest cities in the US (New York and Chicago)
Which is already done with I-80, even though it doesn't actually go into either city. And I-80 east of the I-76 bump is a free road anyway. However, if you wanted to do an all-toll route between the two, it would require dipping through lower PA (bypassing Pittsburgh and Philly along the way) and then coming back up on the NJ Turnpike.
As for the question indicated in the thread, yes and no. The former is because it is an all-toll facility, and the latter because it is maintained by separate city/state agencies, as previously mentioned.
The Indiana Toll Road does exactly what it was designed to do - charge out-of-state travelers who must travel through Indiana to get where they're going without having any intention of stopping and contributing to the state's economy.
One more connection that Hoosier leaders hoped that the ITR would provide is Detroit to Chicago. They intentionally chose an extreme northern route, often within sight of Michigan, figuring that Michigan would eventually build a toll road from some point along the border to the Motor City. They were foiled when the interstate system came along and designated free I-94 as the Detroit-Chicago route. Indiana delayed building their portion of 94 between the ITR and the Michigan state line as long as possible to keep motorists on the toll road for as many miles as they could.
Whether or not the corridor is a single toll road or not, it is a great way to get from the Midwest to the East Coast (although it doesn't quite reach the Atlantic Ocean).
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 18, 2015, 12:31:43 PM
Quote from: Henry on August 18, 2015, 12:23:37 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on August 17, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: rellimsukram on August 17, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
I know this is off topic but does anyone else think that i80 i90 wasn't the best toll road choice for IN. Maybe around Gary it could be one, but I find that i69 or i65 would be much better options. i69 being a toll road would piss off everyone in fort wayne, but would rake in boatloads of cash. I80 i90 doesnt cover enough decent sized cities in indiana
When Ohio finished the Turnpike to the Indiana border, the Toll Road needed to be completed to Chicago. At that time, the intent was to connect the two largest cities in the US (New York and Chicago)
Which is already done with I-80, even though it doesn't actually go into either city.
I-80 didn't exist when the toll roads were built. You have to think back to the landscape of the 1940's and 50's.
Exactly. In PA, the intent was to connect Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, while the idea in Ohio and Indiana was to get people to Chicago while charging them money at the same time.
I would consider the corridor to be one road, even though the names and the numbers change.
In essence, you're following the mainline the whole way through. From Mansfield, NJ to Englewood, Chicago, IL you don't take a single exit ramp.
Likewise, I consider the following to be one corridor as well: from the Port Huron border crossing along I-69, following I-94 through Michigan and Portage, IN becoming I-80 and then I-74 and then finally I-280 in Davenport, IA.
Another example from So Cal: I-210 Foothill Freeway/ CA 134 Ventura Freeway / Us 101 Ventura Freeway is one corridor.
Quote from: mrsman on August 18, 2015, 11:18:05 PM
I would consider the corridor to be one road, even though the names and the numbers change.
In essence, you're following the mainline the whole way through. From Mansfield, NJ to Englewood, Chicago, IL you don't take a single exit ramp.
Likewise, I consider the following to be one corridor as well: from the Port Huron border crossing along I-69, following I-94 through Michigan and Portage, IN becoming I-80 and then I-74 and then finally I-280 in Davenport, IA.
Another example from So Cal: I-210 Foothill Freeway/ CA 134 Ventura Freeway / Us 101 Ventura Freeway is one corridor.
I-294 is the main flow from the I-80 spilt.
Quote from: theline on August 18, 2015, 01:57:40 PM
One more connection that Hoosier leaders hoped that the ITR would provide is Detroit to Chicago. They intentionally chose an extreme northern route, often within sight of Michigan, figuring that Michigan would eventually build a toll road from some point along the border to the Motor City. They were foiled when the interstate system came along and designated free I-94 as the Detroit-Chicago route. Indiana delayed building their portion of 94 between the ITR and the Michigan state line as long as possible to keep motorists on the toll road for as many miles as they could.
Remember that the Ohio Turnpike opened before the Indiana Toll Road. For the ITR route they had a choice of: 1) the route chosen, 2) a route through Angola and along the south side of South Bend and Elkhart (where the US 20 bypass was built), or 3) one that went from Chicago to Fort Wayne. I think options 1 and 2 were set as the Ohio Turnpike already existed so option 3 would never connect to the Ohio Turnpike and would miss Toledo. As for option 2, US 30 was already a divided highway in the early 50s so I think there were very valid reasons for selecting that northerly route other than to stick it to Michigan. In the scheme of things, Fort Wayne is the one that drew the short stick with the northern route, not southern Michigan.
As for that last missing segment of I-94 being delayed, let's keep that in perspective. It was completed in 1974 if I remember correctly so that was 41 years ago. There are segments of Interstate 95 on the east coast that have never been built. That last segment of I-94 in Porter and Laporte counties was built before I-64 in Indiana and not too long after I-65 was completed - seems like that was 1972 or after (maybe even 1975). Because I had family in Michigan , I remember that missing segment of I-94 was a pain, but so were missing segments of other Interstate highways that also existed away from ITR.
While on this topic, what are some corridors that you are able to drive without taking 1 exit? :hmmm: Just taking a shot here, I-84 West > I-81 South > I-40 West (> I-15 South :bigass:)
Quote from: mukade on August 19, 2015, 06:34:15 AM
Quote from: theline on August 18, 2015, 01:57:40 PM
One more connection that Hoosier leaders hoped that the ITR would provide is Detroit to Chicago. They intentionally chose an extreme northern route, often within sight of Michigan, figuring that Michigan would eventually build a toll road from some point along the border to the Motor City. They were foiled when the interstate system came along and designated free I-94 as the Detroit-Chicago route. Indiana delayed building their portion of 94 between the ITR and the Michigan state line as long as possible to keep motorists on the toll road for as many miles as they could.
Remember that the Ohio Turnpike opened before the Indiana Toll Road. For the ITR route they had a choice of: 1) the route chosen, 2) a route through Angola and along the south side of South Bend and Elkhart (where the US 20 bypass was built), or 3) one that went from Chicago to Fort Wayne. I think options 1 and 2 were set as the Ohio Turnpike already existed so option 3 would never connect to the Ohio Turnpike and would miss Toledo. As for option 2, US 30 was already a divided highway in the early 50s so I think there were very valid reasons for selecting that northerly route other than to stick it to Michigan. In the scheme of things, Fort Wayne is the one that drew the short stick with the northern route, not southern Michigan.
As for that last missing segment of I-94 being delayed, let's keep that in perspective. It was completed in 1974 if I remember correctly so that was 41 years ago. There are segments of Interstate 95 on the east coast that have never been built. That last segment of I-94 in Porter and Laporte counties was built before I-64 in Indiana and not too long after I-65 was completed - seems like that was 1972 or after (maybe even 1975). Because I had family in Michigan , I remember that missing segment of I-94 was a pain, but so were missing segments of other Interstate highways that also existed away from ITR.
I'm guessing that you're much younger than I am. I turned 23 in 1974, and waiting around for Indiana to finish that segment of 94 seemed like forever. The 41 years since doesn't seem so long. It's all about perspective. :biggrin:
That segment was the last to be completed, and I'm entitled to my interpretation of the motive. You're entitled to yours. I doubt that we'll ever find conclusive evidence to prove either viewpoint.
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 19, 2015, 10:02:41 AM
While on this topic, what are some corridors that you are able to drive without taking 1 exit? :hmmm: Just taking a shot here, I-84 West > I-81 South > I-40 West (> I-15 South :bigass:)
Nope. Staying on I-40 in Memphis requires taking a ramp. Otherwise you're dumped onto Whatshisname Blvd.
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 19, 2015, 10:02:41 AM
While on this topic, what are some corridors that you are able to drive without taking 1 exit? :hmmm: Just taking a shot here, I-84 West > I-81 South > I-40 West (> I-15 South :bigass:)
What are we classifying as an "exit"? If you have a directional-Y and lane distributions are equal, would both be considered mainline or would the one not carrying a through designation be an exit?
Quote from: cl94 on August 19, 2015, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 19, 2015, 10:02:41 AM
While on this topic, what are some corridors that you are able to drive without taking 1 exit? :hmmm: Just taking a shot here, I-84 West > I-81 South > I-40 West (> I-15 South :bigass:)
What are we classifying as an "exit"? If you have a directional-Y and lane distributions are equal, would both be considered mainline or would the one not carrying a through designation be an exit?
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1505239,-89.8860195,1993m/data=!3m1!1e3
More lanes for Sam Cooper Blvd than for I-40 - Either way (I-240, the "beltway" before I-40's original plan to follow said blvd was scrapped - gets the multiple lanes - The interchange's being upgraded, but it looks as if the number of lanes for I-40 is not increasing...
Quote from: cl94 on August 19, 2015, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 19, 2015, 10:02:41 AM
While on this topic, what are some corridors that you are able to drive without taking 1 exit? :hmmm: Just taking a shot here, I-84 West > I-81 South > I-40 West (> I-15 South :bigass:)
What are we classifying as an "exit"? If you have a directional-Y and lane distributions are equal, would both be considered mainline or would the one not carrying a through designation be an exit?
I mean the dominant route, though that may be a tough call. Basically, this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/louisiana010/i-010_wb_exit_267_15.jpg)
or this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages081%2Fi-081_st_17.jpg&hash=1fd50e293998f1cc71abc69f204ad5d163274a42)
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 19, 2015, 09:07:42 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages081%2Fi-081_st_17.jpg&hash=1fd50e293998f1cc71abc69f204ad5d163274a42)
I'm old enough to remember when the I-40/I-81 interchange only had a single lane for every movement. Much like the southern I-64/I-75 split in Lexington up until it was rebuilt in 1979-80.
Quote from: theline on August 19, 2015, 04:53:39 PM
I'm guessing that you're much younger than I am. I turned 23 in 1974, and waiting around for Indiana to finish that segment of 94 seemed like forever. The 41 years since doesn't seem so long. It's all about perspective. :biggrin:
That segment was the last to be completed, and I'm entitled to my interpretation of the motive. You're entitled to yours. I doubt that we'll ever find conclusive evidence to prove either viewpoint.
A little younger, but I took SR 39/M-239 and eventually SR 249-US 20-SR 212-US 12 to bridge the gap on trips from Northwest Inidana or Chicago to Grand Rapids. It was annoying, but I also remember gaps on I-65 so my point is simply that this was not the one last gap in the Indiana Interstate system. I think I-64 was finished many years later as well.
FWIW, my father shared your interpretation.