I know that ramp meters come in both two-section (R-G) and three-section (R-Y-G) variants. I wonder, if your area has them, what type are used? Also, what are the pros and cons to each?
Here in the Phoenix area, they are two-section models.
PennDOT has two-section ramp meters installed at the end of the on ramps to I-476 south of Plymouth Meeting.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 27, 2015, 01:22:58 PM
I know that ramp meters come in both two-section (R-G) and three-section (R-Y-G) variants. I wonder, if your area has them, what type are used? Also, what are the pros and cons to each?
Here in the Phoenix area, they are two-section models.
Really old ones in the S.F. Bay Area were a hybrid with a two-section at driver height and a three-section at the top of the pole (example: north Wolfe Rd to north I-280 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.331125,-122.01475,3a,36.8y,327.55h,87.6t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sSKtUgEtMkY4e40oFpn2ahQ!2e0)). All new installations use 3-section lights (example: north Wolfe Rd to south I-280 (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.32969,-122.013838,3a,66.8y,58.89h,84.2t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdK2yeiMRVl-57j3Fw_Stmg!2e0)).
When metering is one car per green, the lights cycle red-green-red regardless of whether signals are two or three sections. When metering is two cars per green in the Sacramento area, the metering lights cycle red-green-yellow-red presumably to give enough time for the second car to proceed before the red light is shown. The only ramp that I know of in the S.F. Bay Area that is 2 per green are the CA-17 ramps to south CA-85 near Los Gatos but I do not know how that meter functions.
All the ones I've seen around Atlanta are 3-section; I've never seen yellow in use though.
In Wisconsin, if they're pole-mounted (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0485932,-88.2238825,3a,75y,56.03h,75.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sM6FOd6Jq2Ryv79MnO5kpgg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DM6FOd6Jq2Ryv79MnO5kpgg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D243.59547%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656), both 2 and 3-section. The 3-section is up at the top and a 2-section is mounted 4-5' from ground level. If overhead-only (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1913897,-88.1214318,3a,75y,116.3h,84.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ_79pldqM5G66BWW01QNvQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), 3-section. The only time the yellow is used is when the ramp meters switch from rest in green to active metering. The yellow indication is not used as part of the active metering sequence (e.g., R>G>R>G...).
The only one (https://www.google.se/maps/@59.316841,18.001228,3a,66.8y,332.48h,83.54t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sZHLZQqaToJ1k6v5rlIbQAA!2e0) I know of here uses standard traffic lights, so R-Y-G.
I-205 in Portland, OR (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Portland,+OR/@45.4953374,-122.56583,3a,75y,161.54h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sr5Swlqqe3e9lVZBDiDISBw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dr5Swlqqe3e9lVZBDiDISBw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D166.83276%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x54950b0b7da97427:0x1c36b9e6f6d18591!6m1!1e1) has some 3-section ramp meters.
Here are three images which illustrate the type of ramp meters used in my area:
The first image is the BC method, which entails side-mounted 12-12-12 signal-heads with sideways-pointed 8-8 signal-heads. But, they are rare in BC, and the only one I knew of, Mary Hill Bypass towards Highway 1, no longer exists following reconstruction of the Highway 1/Lougheed Highway interchange (the image I've linked is of this signal).
The second image is WSDOT method #1, which entails side-mounted 12-12-12 signal-heads with sideways-pointed 8-8-8 signal-heads. The example shown is of two single-lane ramp meters on a cloverleaf. Side-mounted signal-heads are used for one-lane meters and two-lane meters without HOV bypasses.
The third image is WSDOT method #2, which entails overhead-mounted 12-12-12 signal-heads, only used when there are two or more lanes (including those with metered shoulder lanes). 99% of the time, overhead signals are used when there are two lanes plus an HOV bypass, which doesn't allow for side-mounted signal-heads because the ramp is in the way. However, there are HOV bypass lanes which curve slightly around the second lane (https://goo.gl/7bAxxq), allowing for two side-mounted signal-heads. But, this is uncommon.
Neither BC nor Washington have any two-per-green meters (AFAIK), so amber is not used during normal function. Can't speak for the brief moment when they are turned on, however...never witnessed this before.
(https://stephenrees.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/on-ramp-meter-hwy-1-jct-44-mary-hill-bypass.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-gk3owbWaeek%2FVVNtEsu-biI%2FAAAAAAAABms%2FvFk7HbGFnDc%2Fs1600%2FRM%252BSBI5%252BJBLM%252Bmain%252Bgate.JPG&hash=31c50cc2b1bf3f04d225b878c012c2c077fb6f79) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbTCoeSp.png&hash=947ce9dcbcba4b2672571803883c353d5bac930f)
Quote from: jakeroot on August 27, 2015, 02:52:39 PMNeither BC nor Washington have any two-per-green meters (AFAIK), so amber is not used during normal function. Can't speak for the brief moment when they are turned on, however...never witnessed this before.
I swear I've witnessed this exactly once... but I was in the mainline lanes and saw the yellow signal on the ramp out of the corner of my eye, so I could be imagining it. But it was at a time when it would make sense for the ramp meter to just be coming on, and what I think I saw (again, out of the corner of my eye) would seem to match that: nothing lit, yellow, then red until the next car came to a stop at the signal.
As for style, overhead ramp meter signals are not common here in the Phoenix area; I have only seen them in a few places. Most two lane ramps use pedestal-mounted meters on both sides, with the lower signals being angled towards the lane. 12 inch heads are used for the upper signals and 8 inch heads are used for the lower signals.
Not to jump completely off topic with this, is there any reason ramp meters are pretty much a non-starter in the Northeast? My travels have all been east of the Appalachians, and I've yet to actually encounter one.
New York has one on the Grand Central Parkway and Arlington, VA has them leading onto I-66.
Of course, if Orlando had them on I-4 they would be a waste as nobody here would obey them unless you have cameras on every ramp.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on August 27, 2015, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 27, 2015, 02:52:39 PMNeither BC nor Washington have any two-per-green meters (AFAIK), so amber is not used during normal function. Can't speak for the brief moment when they are turned on, however...never witnessed this before.
I swear I've witnessed this exactly once... but I was in the mainline lanes and saw the yellow signal on the ramp out of the corner of my eye, so I could be imagining it. But it was at a time when it would make sense for the ramp meter to just be coming on, and what I think I saw (again, out of the corner of my eye) would seem to match that: nothing lit, yellow, then red until the next car came to a stop at the signal.
I don't think your crazy. I mean, they shouldn't just suddenly become red, unless they want people rear-ending each other.
One day, I'm going to camp out and just wait. Or setup a camera. One or the other.
Quote from: jakeroot on August 27, 2015, 05:06:06 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on August 27, 2015, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 27, 2015, 02:52:39 PMNeither BC nor Washington have any two-per-green meters (AFAIK), so amber is not used during normal function. Can't speak for the brief moment when they are turned on, however...never witnessed this before.
I swear I've witnessed this exactly once... but I was in the mainline lanes and saw the yellow signal on the ramp out of the corner of my eye, so I could be imagining it. But it was at a time when it would make sense for the ramp meter to just be coming on, and what I think I saw (again, out of the corner of my eye) would seem to match that: nothing lit, yellow, then red until the next car came to a stop at the signal.
I don't think your crazy. I mean, they shouldn't just suddenly become red, unless they want people rear-ending each other.
One day, I'm going to camp out and just wait. Or setup a camera. One or the other.
FWIW, I have never seen the yellow indication illuminated in Wisconsin either...rather, IIRC, its operation was something I was told about by someone here on AARoads. When I toured the WisDOT Statewide Traffic Operations Center several years back I asked several employees there what/when the yellow indication was for on the ramp meters (at the time I figured it was a logical place to ask since they operate/oversee the metering operations). Not one of them had the foggiest clue what I was even talking about. :pan:
Nevada uses two-section signal heads for all its ramp meters. Preferred mounting is overhead on a mast arm with one signal per lane. In limited applications where the meters are post mounted, then two signals are used (one high, one low and angled inward to the stop line).
I find it interesting that NDOT only uses one signal per lane with the overheads. Since the ramp meters typically operate in a staggered release mode (lanes alternate getting the greens), it means that there is no redundant signal head in case of signal head failure.
I believe every ramp meter in Oregon has three heads. Side pole-mounted signals (with auxiliary 2-headed signals at driver height) are used when there are 1 or 2 lanes, and overhead mounted signals must be used for 3 lanes or more. I've never seen the yellow indication shown, but I believe it's for when the ramp signals are activated.
Ramp meter signals in Minnesota (at least in the Minneapolis area) are three-headed, and I noticed the yellow lights flash when the ramps are not being metered.
Quote from: Ace10 on August 27, 2015, 07:44:33 PM
Ramp meter signals in Minnesota (at least in the Minneapolis area) are three-headed, and I noticed the yellow lights flash when the ramps are not being metered.
That's interesting. In the S.F. Bay Area, metering lights are set to green if the ramp is not being metered.
In the twin cities area, I've never seen any of the ramp meters in use, but they are pole mounted on each side of the ramp, I'm pretty sure they are 8 inch signals because they look small, but I'm not 100% sure. The signals up top have backplates/fitted borders, and the driver signals don't. Each pole has a signal facing up the ramp and a signal at driver height facing the drivers window. The signals are RYG and flash yellow when not metering.
Quote from: myosh_tino on August 27, 2015, 08:29:00 PM
Quote from: Ace10 on August 27, 2015, 07:44:33 PM
Ramp meter signals in Minnesota (at least in the Minneapolis area) are three-headed, and I noticed the yellow lights flash when the ramps are not being metered.
That's interesting. In the S.F. Bay Area, metering lights are set to green if the ramp is not being metered.
In Wisconsin, they are also set to green when not being metered. By Atlanta, they go dark when metering is off.
Also in Minnesota, it goes with a GYR progression with a very short yellow phase.
Quote from: Big John on August 27, 2015, 08:41:25 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on August 27, 2015, 08:29:00 PM
Quote from: Ace10 on August 27, 2015, 07:44:33 PM
Ramp meter signals in Minnesota (at least in the Minneapolis area) are three-headed, and I noticed the yellow lights flash when the ramps are not being metered.
That's interesting. In the S.F. Bay Area, metering lights are set to green if the ramp is not being metered.
In Wisconsin, they are also set to green when not being metered. By Atlanta, they go dark when metering is off.
Also in Minnesota, it goes with a GYR progression with a very short yellow phase.
Perhaps I should clarify...
Metering lights are set to green when ramps that are supposed to be metered are not. This usually happens on holidays that fall during the week. All other times, they are turned off.
New York has two-section meters on the LIE and Northern State. Warning signs feature a graphic of a 2-section signal.
Columbus, Ohio has them at several places inside I-270, also two-section.
As far as I know, Connecticut does not use either. Kurumi knows more about all of CT, and I, Fairfield County, so he could provide more insight on the topic. We would probably use R-Y-G if we did.
Quote from: Ian on August 27, 2015, 01:26:04 PM
PennDOT has two-section ramp meters installed at the end of the on ramps to I-476 south of Plymouth Meeting.
US 22 along the Lehigh Valley Expressway
used to have similar 2-section signals; but were taken down sometime back (not sure when). I know that 22 had them circa 2001-2002.
Is anyone aware of a ramp meter in Indiana? I've never seen one. I was so unfamiliar with them that I ran one in California last fall. No harm done, fortunately. I was totally surprised to see a red light in that location.
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 28, 2015, 08:51:21 AM
Quote from: Ian on August 27, 2015, 01:26:04 PM
PennDOT has two-section ramp meters installed at the end of the on ramps to I-476 south of Plymouth Meeting.
US 22 along the Lehigh Valley Expressway used to have similar 2-section signals; but were taken down sometime back (not sure when). I know that 22 had them circa 2001-2002.
I think they were also on I-78 in the same Allentown-Bethlehem corridor. Don't remember if they too were taken down.
Note that New Mexico had a temporary ramp meter in Albuquerque from May through July of 2007 for eastbound I-40 traffic from Unser Boulevard during the reconstruction of I-40 from Coors to 98th Street. When it was first installed it had a severe programming error, flashing the lights green, yellow, and red every 14 seconds instead of turning from red to green ad 3 second intervals. This allowed only four cars to get through every minute.
Ramp meters are in use in Virginia on I-66 and I-395 in Arlington, Alexandria, and a very minimal number of locations in Fairfax County. They're all of the "one car per green [each lane, if there are two lanes]," "no yellow phase" variety.
I don't know whether they're used elsewhere around the state.
In Chicagoland, two-section heads are used. Almost all of them are ground mounted, the only exception I am aware of is one with a mast arm for an entrance to the WB Kennedy (I-90/I-94).
When ramp meters have occasionally appeared on the Missouri side of the St. Louis region, a two section head was used. For at least the one on the entrance to WB US 40 from McCausland Avenue, it was dark when inactive.
Quote from: ekt8750 on August 28, 2015, 02:16:42 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 28, 2015, 08:51:21 AM
Quote from: Ian on August 27, 2015, 01:26:04 PM
PennDOT has two-section ramp meters installed at the end of the on ramps to I-476 south of Plymouth Meeting.
US 22 along the Lehigh Valley Expressway used to have similar 2-section signals; but were taken down sometime back (not sure when). I know that 22 had them circa 2001-2002.
I think they were also on I-78 in the same Allentown-Bethlehem corridor. Don't remember if they too were taken down.
I traveled that stretch of I-78 in 2007 and didn't see any ramp meter signals. Personally, I doubt that this stretch of I-78 had any ramp meter signals at all. Unlike US 22, this stretch of I-78 is
relatively new (opened circa 1989) doesn't have as many interchanges located close together; and unlike the Blue Route part of I-476 (particularly south of PA 3), I don't think this part of I-78 gets as grid-locked trafficwise. Somebody from the Lehigh Valley can confirm/clarify/correct the above.
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 27, 2015, 11:16:16 PM
As far as I know, Connecticut does not use either. Kurumi knows more about all of CT, and I, Fairfield County, so he could provide more insight on the topic. We would probably use R-Y-G if we did.
Growing up in Southeastern Connecticut, I can only remember of two ramp meters which are both long gone. One was on Route 9 North and was on the on-ramp after exit 12, this on-ramp now has a stop sign. The other one which was very short lived was the on-ramp for I-95 South just before the old Baldwin Bridge. This second one was only operating for a couple of months in the early 90's to try to pace traffic coming onto 95 South. They ended up taking it out since it did not help prevent traffic jams, instead they decided to close the on-ramp at certain hours on weekends in the summer.
In both cases, the meters were of the R-G type.
Quote from: 1995hooI don't know whether they're used elsewhere around the state.
No other ramp meters in Virginia besides those few along 66 and 395. There used to be a mainline ramp meter decades ago on I-64 at the HRBT, but it's long gone.
The ones in the Kansas City area are 2-head (R/G), and go dark when not in use.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 27, 2015, 04:04:47 PM
As for style, overhead ramp meter signals are not common here in the Phoenix area; I have only seen them in a few places. Most two lane ramps use pedestal-mounted meters on both sides, with the lower signals being angled towards the lane. 12 inch heads are used for the upper signals and 8 inch heads are used for the lower signals.
New overhead ramp meter signals were installed this weekend along Loop 202 West at Country Club, Alma School, and Dobson as part of the widening project. Not sure if these signals mean ADOT will be using more overhead meters in the future.
Quote from: blanketcomputer on September 14, 2015, 11:58:21 PM
New overhead ramp meter signals were installed this weekend along Loop 202 West at Country Club, Alma School, and Dobson as part of the widening project. Not sure if these signals mean ADOT will be using more overhead meters in the future.
These are on the Red Mountain Freeway, right? I wonder what will be installed on the SanTan Freeway in the future. So far only Dobson has gotten the meters on the SanTan Freeway, and they are ground mounted and not yet activated. I know there are plans to install meters as well as overhead DMS along the SanTan Freeway from I-10 to Val Vista through 2016.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on September 15, 2015, 11:01:56 AM
These are on the Red Mountain Freeway, right? I wonder what will be installed on the SanTan Freeway in the future. So far only Dobson has gotten the meters on the SanTan Freeway, and they are ground mounted and not yet activated. I know there are plans to install meters as well as overhead DMS along the SanTan Freeway from I-10 to Val Vista through 2016.
Correct, they are on the Red Mountain Freeway. These three westbound overhead meters are the first to be installed on Loop 202 Red Mountain east of Loop 101. I've noticed new loop detectors on entrance ramps in both directions along the entire widening project from Loop 101 to Broadway, so I guess we will see soon if more of these overhead meters will be installed. I personally prefer side mounted meter signals and would rather see those installed.
I do find it strange in Minnesota that the ramp meters flash yellow when not actively metered. Everywhere else they're green unless turned off when not metering. Minnesota actually did a study with ramp meters by turning them off for 5 weeks in 2001. Travel times increased by 22% and crashes increased by 26%. After the study, MNDOT committed to using the meters and calibrating them based on traffic volume and to make sure the traffic stopped does not back up onto city streets. The study can be viewed here:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/rampmeter/study.html
Quote from: peterj920 on September 15, 2015, 02:34:02 PM
I do find it strange in Minnesota that the ramp meters flash yellow when not actively metered. Everywhere else they're green unless turned off when not metering. Minnesota actually did a study with ramp meters by turning them off for 5 weeks in 2001. Travel times increased by 22% and crashes increased by 26%. After the study, MNDOT committed to using the meters and calibrating them based on traffic volume and to make sure the traffic stopped does not back up onto city streets. The study can be viewed here:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/rampmeter/study.html
Years ago, I once interviewed with MnDOT and brought up this study, which I thought they'd appreciate. For some reason, it seemed to be an embarrassment to them rather than a feather in their caps.
Quote from: Rothman on September 15, 2015, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 15, 2015, 02:34:02 PM
I do find it strange in Minnesota that the ramp meters flash yellow when not actively metered. Everywhere else they're green unless turned off when not metering. Minnesota actually did a study with ramp meters by turning them off for 5 weeks in 2001. Travel times increased by 22% and crashes increased by 26%. After the study, MNDOT committed to using the meters and calibrating them based on traffic volume and to make sure the traffic stopped does not back up onto city streets. The study can be viewed here:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/rampmeter/study.html
Years ago, I once interviewed with MnDOT and brought up this study, which I thought they'd appreciate. For some reason, it seemed to be an embarrassment to them rather than a feather in their caps.
Interesting, because I believe this study is commonly cited to demonstrate the benefits of ramp meters and/or justification for their installation.
Quote from: roadfro on September 17, 2015, 12:59:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on September 15, 2015, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 15, 2015, 02:34:02 PM
I do find it strange in Minnesota that the ramp meters flash yellow when not actively metered. Everywhere else they're green unless turned off when not metering. Minnesota actually did a study with ramp meters by turning them off for 5 weeks in 2001. Travel times increased by 22% and crashes increased by 26%. After the study, MNDOT committed to using the meters and calibrating them based on traffic volume and to make sure the traffic stopped does not back up onto city streets. The study can be viewed here:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/rampmeter/study.html
Years ago, I once interviewed with MnDOT and brought up this study, which I thought they'd appreciate. For some reason, it seemed to be an embarrassment to them rather than a feather in their caps.
Interesting, because I believe this study is commonly cited to demonstrate the benefits of ramp meters and/or justification for their installation.
Very interesting. I'm not sure how a DOT could be embarrassed by helping reduce collisions and increase traffic flow. Rothman, could you elaborate a little bit on what you mean when you say that they saw the study as an embarrassment?
MnDOT was embarrassed because of the politics that prompted the study, and the public backlash both before and afterwards. Sure, they were able to statistically prove that ramp metering works, but there was a lot of public angst before the study regarding what drivers considered overly-excessive wait times to get through the meters and onto the freeway...occasionally reaching up to 15 minutes during peak traffic times. So MnDOT was forced to revise their ramp metering algorithm to reduce those lengthy waits...and that is likely why they felt embarrassed.
The politics stems primarily from one person: the key author of the bill that authorized the ramp meter study, State Senator Dick Day. Day was from rural Minnesota (Owatonna area), and was mad at both ramp meters in general and that MnDOT couldn't afford to widen US 14 through his district. It could be argued that the ramp meter study (and a follow-up HOV lane study that he wanted...he hated HOV lanes too, but FHWA regs prevented MnDOT from "shutting down" the HOV restrictions) was political payback to MnDOT for his angst.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 17, 2015, 01:02:37 AM
Quote from: roadfro on September 17, 2015, 12:59:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on September 15, 2015, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 15, 2015, 02:34:02 PM
I do find it strange in Minnesota that the ramp meters flash yellow when not actively metered. Everywhere else they're green unless turned off when not metering. Minnesota actually did a study with ramp meters by turning them off for 5 weeks in 2001. Travel times increased by 22% and crashes increased by 26%. After the study, MNDOT committed to using the meters and calibrating them based on traffic volume and to make sure the traffic stopped does not back up onto city streets. The study can be viewed here:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/rampmeter/study.html
Years ago, I once interviewed with MnDOT and brought up this study, which I thought they'd appreciate. For some reason, it seemed to be an embarrassment to them rather than a feather in their caps.
Interesting, because I believe this study is commonly cited to demonstrate the benefits of ramp meters and/or justification for their installation.
Very interesting. I'm not sure how a DOT could be embarrassed by helping reduce collisions and increase traffic flow. Rothman, could you elaborate a little bit on what you mean when you say that they saw the study as an embarrassment?
When I brought it up, the interviewing panel all sort of frowned and looked down and did not even ask any feeler questions to investigate my true understanding of the study. That's what made their reaction so memorable: Didn't even get an "Oh, you read that one, did you?" lip service kind of response. It was really weird.
I thought I had read that there were external factors at play in the study that would cause that kind of response. Nice of Froggie to mete them out.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on September 15, 2015, 11:01:56 AM
Quote from: blanketcomputer on September 14, 2015, 11:58:21 PM
New overhead ramp meter signals were installed this weekend along Loop 202 West at Country Club, Alma School, and Dobson as part of the widening project. Not sure if these signals mean ADOT will be using more overhead meters in the future.
These are on the Red Mountain Freeway, right? I wonder what will be installed on the SanTan Freeway in the future. So far only Dobson has gotten the meters on the SanTan Freeway, and they are ground mounted and not yet activated. I know there are plans to install meters as well as overhead DMS along the SanTan Freeway from I-10 to Val Vista through 2016.
The eastbound Loop 202 Red Mountain entrance ramp at Dobson had its meter installed last weekend. It is a side-mounted meter, not overhead. I haven't been able to see the eastbound meters at Alma School or Country Club yet so I'm not sure if they are overhead or not. I'm not sure why the westbound ramps have overhead meters and eastbound has the side-mounted meters, especially when it's the same contractor doing all the FMS work.
Quote from: SectorZ on August 27, 2015, 04:30:15 PM
Not to jump completely off topic with this, is there any reason ramp meters are pretty much a non-starter in the Northeast? My travels have all been east of the Appalachians, and I've yet to actually encounter one.
Same here, I've seen them in pictures, but I have
never encountered one in person, and I've traveled up (by car) and down the East Coast and into Ohio, Indiana and Illinois. I was 6 or 7 when I went to LA by air and I remember nothing.