The yellow-on-brown signs that are in use instead of the standard white-on-green throughout much of the Adirondack Park and Catskill Park in New York are under fire by the FHWA:
http://adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/508649.html?nav=5008 (http://adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/508649.html?nav=5008)
I'd personally hate to see the change. I like the signs - it reminds me I'm driving in the Adirondacks when I see these.
:| - Federal idiots
Noo!!!! I love the gold on brown signs! I always look foward to seeing them when I go to my aunts lake house on Lake George. They are my favorite! Heck, I remember seeing a gold on brown hospital "H" sign.
I don't have a problem with them keeping the yellow-on-brown signs, at least for guide signage or what would normally be white-on-green. That hospital sign that Ian mentioned, on the other hand, should be switched over to the standard white-on-blue.
As a frequent visitor to the Adirondacks, I love those yellow on brown signs. They're unique and are a symbol of the region. I sure hope they don't go to boring white-on-brown signs...otherwise, it'd just be another generic park as opposed to the Adirondacks.
Quote from: cu2010 on September 16, 2009, 07:45:28 PM
As a frequent visitor to the Adirondacks, I love those yellow on brown signs. They're unique and are a symbol of the region. I sure hope they don't go to boring white-on-brown signs...otherwise, it'd just be another generic park as opposed to the Adirondacks.
And as mentioned previously, they can be found in the Catskills too. I saw some on NY 17 westbound back in February. Wonder if NYDOT will be made to take them down when NY 17 becomes I-86?
In my humble opinion and with some but limited experience driving in the Adirondacks, they're 100% right. It's way too hard to see gold on brown in low lighting conditions, when dirt/grime gets on signs (think winter snow and plowing/salting), when the signs get old, etc. Why is white on brown so bad?
Well, I think the yellow-on-brown signs is something that we associate with the Adirondacks, and to a lesser extent, the Catskills. But with New York now using the federal MUTCD with state supplement, I suspect New York State is expected to comply with federal standards at all levels.
The article states that there's been an exception made for these parks, allowing the non-standard signs. Even though FHWA is going through the process of revising the MUTCD now, I wonder why they're just now starting to get concerned with this exception.
Not having seen the signs personally, I won't care either way. AARoads makes a good point about the visibility--yellow and brown are almost shades of one another, which don't really contrast that well.
Most Adirondack Park signage to remain unchanged (http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/511311.html?nav=5008)
Looks like the exception will remain in place, with a few exceptions.
Quote from: cu2010 on February 15, 2010, 12:33:31 PM
Most Adirondack Park signage to remain unchanged (http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/511311.html?nav=5008)
Looks like the exception will remain in place, with a few exceptions.
Well good for them! I am happy that most of the signs will remain, but the emergency signs definetely should be changed to the standard colors.
Quote from: cu2010 on February 15, 2010, 12:33:31 PM
Most Adirondack Park signage to remain unchanged (http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/511311.html?nav=5008)
Looks like the exception will remain in place, with a few exceptions.
Awesome! I'm glad that some specialized local/regional differences are allowed to remain.
Quote from: shoptb1 on February 15, 2010, 11:03:41 PM
Awesome! I'm glad that some specialized local/regional differences are allowed to remain.
Indeed, I wish more states would exercise this, and force the issue, and the feds would give significantly more leeway. Does anyone really think Florida's colored US shields were unattractive, ineffective, etc? No, the only reason they were de facto banned (read: no federal funding, so therefore not cost-effective when the state had to do all the heavy lifting) was because they were - horror of horrors! - non-standard.
Because cousin Millie visiting from one state over really would mistake a red US-1 shield for a stop sign and come to a screeching halt and cause a large accident with fire and flames and massive Hiroshima-like devastation and giant worms that eat people. Yeah. Right.
I maintain that signage of the 1950s and early 1960s was the best, because each state had its own program - blue guide signs on the NY Thruway and Connecticut Turnpike, thirty sets of custom state fonts (notably, Mass, Maryland, Nevada, New York, Oregon, etc) at least fifteen varieties of US shields being posted in the states, about twenty that I know of (or maybe more!) experimenting with colored route markers ... then the feds said "give me boring or give me death" and no one rose to the challenge.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 15, 2010, 11:50:26 PM
Indeed, I wish more states would exercise this, and force the issue, and the feds would give significantly more leeway. Does anyone really think Florida's colored US shields were unattractive, ineffective, etc? No, the only reason they were de facto banned (read: no federal funding, so therefore not cost-effective when the state had to do all the heavy lifting) was because they were - horror of horrors! - non-standard.
Because cousin Millie visiting from one state over really would mistake a red US-1 shield for a stop sign and come to a screeching halt and cause a large accident with fire and flames and massive Hiroshima-like devastation and giant worms that eat people. Yeah. Right.
I maintain that signage of the 1950s and early 1960s was the best, because each state had its own program - blue guide signs on the NY Thruway and Connecticut Turnpike, thirty sets of custom state fonts (notably, Mass, Maryland, Nevada, New York, Oregon, etc) at least fifteen varieties of US shields being posted in the states, about twenty that I know of (or maybe more!) experimenting with colored route markers ... then the feds said "give me boring or give me death" and no one rose to the challenge.
Your dose of drama never fails to entertain. In this case, I actually agree. I think that the Federal oversight should include a
set of less-stringent standards, such as common emergency-service signs, etc. Fonts, colors, and other things should be left up to the individual states to ultimately decide what works best for them. Obviously, shapes are most important...but it's not like those things weren't already being adhered to. It really is a shame that we lost the colored US shields in Florida, the cut-out US shields in other locations, and dare I say....the unique-but-crappy California freeway signage (couldn't resist that one). Just let 'em be!
While I do like the gold-on-brown signage in the Catskills and the Adirondacks (more so in the Adirondacks) and find them unique to New York, if they had switched to more conventional colors for signage, it wouldn't have detracted from the scenic beauty of the region. Still, I'm glad that the signs look like they will stay.
Quote from: dougtone on February 16, 2010, 10:09:37 AM
While I do like the gold-on-brown signage in the Catskills and the Adirondacks (more so in the Adirondacks) and find them unique to New York, if they had switched to more conventional colors for signage, it wouldn't have detracted from the scenic beauty of the region. Still, I'm glad that the signs look like they will stay.
I fail to see how gold-on-brown signage makes the region any less beautiful.....Are these non-uniform signs being haphazardly affixed to the butts of the upstate New York wildlife? Is gold and brown paint being spilled on the highway? Are precious trees being cut down to create the material to make these signs? :pan:
Going to go against the rest of the forum here and say that I'd much rather standard colors be used. The standard colors are much more helpful (blue and white=services, brown and white=recreation, etc) than the gold and brown (which tells me nothing other than "You're in Adirondack Park", which is something I hopefully already know). Add in the visibility issues and I really don't see any overwhelming argument on the gold-and-brown's side.
I'm all for allowing states to develop their own house style, but I think the level we have it at now is just right. We can all tell a California sign from a Kansas sign from a New York sign as it is, just based on each state's typical BGS layout, the kind of poles they use, placement, etc. I like there being a standard font–were it up to OK I'm sure each DOT division would have its own font and OTA would be using a mix of Times New Roman and Franklin Gothic!
I, for one, love the brown/gold scheme. My family owns property in the Adirondacks, and I think the color is great! And I think I saw such a sign even in downtown Albany, at the corner of Washington and Central avenues, if I am not mistaken.
In case anyone wonders what these signs look like, this one is on NY 17 along the southwestern edge of the Catskills.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2F2009_Milford_PA_Day_2%2FImages%2F70.jpg&hash=ee10931f556368cfd21ae04a8eb24229bae28b5c)
I agree that a very few signs like hospital signs need to be the standard colors for visibility. I also think, having driven on many occasions through the Adirondacks day and night, that gold on yellow is just not visible enough. They're both in the yellow-brown family of colors, so there's not enough contrast. It's particularly bad at night, especially on older signs, when it's snowing, and/or when there is snow/ice on the sign. Street signs are also very difficult to read - I'm not talking about the state highway ones, which are ludicrously oversized to meet new MUTCD standards, but the town ones that are the standard blade size. I don't see how white on brown would seriously detract from all the signs versus gold on brown, compared to the benefit that motorists would get.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 20, 2010, 11:12:53 AM
In case anyone wonders what these signs look like, this one is on NY 17 along the southwestern edge of the Catskills.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2F2009_Milford_PA_Day_2%2FImages%2F70.jpg&hash=ee10931f556368cfd21ae04a8eb24229bae28b5c)
I find this extremely readable. I'm sure it's different when in motion, but I honestly don't find it any less legible than any of the other common color schemes.