Has anyone on their commutes of travels on I-294 notice that some of the overhead signs are now being supported by concrete pillars on the side?
Main ones I've noticed:
NB 294: I-290 overhead for Chicago/Rockford just after the Cermak toll sensor in the express lanes (green mesh to support the construction)
SB 294: I-290 overhead for Rockford just after Grand Ave
Eastbound 95th street/76th Ave exit sign
Couldn't find an article relating to this. So I'm just wondering why we're getting these pillars when the steel frames were not only just replaced when 294 was resurfaced but were fine to begin with.
Someone had some highway beautification money burning a hole in their pocket? Someone probably came up to Wisconsin and saw how WisDOT is in love with decorative concrete sign pillars and thought they needed them too.
May be an ISHTA thing, as I noticed similar work on IL-390/EOE.
Quote from: DaBigE on September 16, 2015, 11:10:13 AM
Someone had some highway beautification money burning a hole in their pocket? Someone probably came up to Wisconsin and saw how WisDOT is in love with decorative concrete sign pillars and thought they needed them too.
And they still use metal trusses for the overhead portion so they look like mismatched gantries and not more attractive than metal pillars in this case.
In Green Bay, decorative concrete pillars are being used for all overhead signs on the I-41 project. They were also used in the Marquette Interchange and the Mitchell Interchange areas in Milwaukee. They're also common in Texas.
They're springing up along the Madison beltline, too.
These are very common on TxDOT freeways.
Nowadays aesthetics is the thing. Like before a bridge was just girders with a deck on top and concrete bumpers on the side of the deck for safety. Now some road agencies are spending more money on extra features like the City of Orlando did with the Conroy Road overpass on I-4 adding fancy ugly spires to the ends of the bridge to be a trademark of the Millenia Development adjacent to the bridge, as well as create a Gateway into Orlando for travelers on I-4 E Bound and also one for travelers heading W Bound I-4 into the International Drive/ Universal/Disney/ Sea World resort area.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 17, 2015, 10:35:11 AM
Nowadays aesthetics is the thing. Like before a bridge was just girders with a deck on top and concrete bumpers on the side of the deck for safety. Now some road agencies are spending more money on extra features like the City of Orlando did with the Conroy Road overpass on I-4 adding fancy ugly spires to the ends of the bridge to be a trademark of the Millenia Development adjacent to the bridge, as well as create a Gateway into Orlando for travelers on I-4 E Bound and also one for travelers heading W Bound I-4 into the International Drive/ Universal/Disney/ Sea World resort area.
I don't know if I'm becoming a crotchety old man or just nostalgic, but I miss the utilitarian highway structures. We went from a cheap, but effective pedestrian overpass like 1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0395995,-89.4586747,3a,75y,276.02h,87.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-8y24xk6jkvGGtNN9o1qBQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) or 2 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0351317,-89.4489461,3a,75y,106.61h,88.38t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sCKyDue-yYsYPvCx6257F9A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DCKyDue-yYsYPvCx6257F9A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D51.224026%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656) to ones like 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0349827,-89.4165303,3a,75y,111.52h,82.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snVT6g1tXTsndl1tP_Fm8Jg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1048089,-89.3414389,3a,75y,223.61h,82.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-ynQcYBwizqeFebiNcGfqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
WisDOT even uses a term for it: Community Sensitive Design (CSD), a brochure they have used on it: http://projects.511wi.gov/i94northsouth/overview/community-sensitive-design/
Quote from: Big John on September 17, 2015, 01:29:25 PM
WisDOT even uses a term for it: Community Sensitive Design (CSD), a brochure they have used on it: http://projects.511wi.gov/i94northsouth/overview/community-sensitive-design/
Every major project has had one of those, the Marquette interchange, the Zoo interchange, the 41 conversion, Verona Rd, etc.. With budgets changing the way they are and more backlash on "frivolous spending", it'll be interesting to see the future of CSD in Wisconsin.
Quote from: DaBigE on September 17, 2015, 01:38:38 PM
Quote from: Big John on September 17, 2015, 01:29:25 PM
WisDOT even uses a term for it: Community Sensitive Design (CSD), a brochure they have used on it: http://projects.511wi.gov/i94northsouth/overview/community-sensitive-design/
Every major project has had one of those, the Marquette interchange, the Zoo interchange, the 41 conversion, Verona Rd, etc.. With budgets changing the way they are and more backlash on "frivolous spending", it'll be interesting to see the future of CSD in Wisconsin.
It's likely that things would favor the no-build option.
My understanding is that the CSD-type decorative elements are really a rounding error when it comes to the major expenses of a project these days (ROW, environmental clearance, and the basic labor and materials involved in construction), hence why they've become so ubiquitous. If it buys off some local opposition in the process, I'd say it's worth it.
I think we're past the days of one-size-fits-all highway design. A lot of people just don't like freeways very much. You have to give them something to like, even if it seems frivolous just in terms of the budget.
On the SPUI between I-87/NY 2/NY 7, the decorations on the overpass are frequently mocked. Concrete shields and tacky art deco designs make people wonder what the point was decorating the thing.
People do like the SPUI better than the old miserable setup, however.
In Wisconsin last budget there was a proposal to completely ban this type of work. The argument lies out there if we cannot fund road and bridge repairs, why are we funding decorative non-essential items. Not sure if it actually was passed into law.
The most extreme example of decorative work in Wisconsin in terms of an overall majors project so far has been 41 where along all of the bridges, sign bridges, and retaining walls they "painted" (it is actually concrete stain) every brick pattern individually by roller brick by brick.
https://goo.gl/maps/RhaR7
On this project alone it cost over $10 million to cover the whole corridor.
Quote from: Roadguy on September 18, 2015, 01:01:40 AM
In Wisconsin last budget there was a proposal to completely ban this type of work. The argument lies out there if we cannot fund road and bridge repairs, why are we funding decorative non-essential items. Not sure if it actually was passed into law.
That's actually what I was subtly referring to in my earlier post. I'm not sure either, but I think it was passed, as well as a moratorium on Trans 75 project inclusions.
Quote from: Roadguy on September 18, 2015, 01:01:40 AM
The most extreme example of decorative work in Wisconsin in terms of an overall majors project so far has been 41 where along all of the bridges, sign bridges, and retaining walls they "painted" (it is actually concrete stain) every brick pattern individually by roller brick by brick.
https://goo.gl/maps/RhaR7
On this project alone it cost over $10 million to cover the whole corridor.
The one I see bitched about most are the images that were cast into the bridge piers of the new I-41 Lake Butte des Morts bridge. The commentary is usually something along the lines of "why did we waste money on something only the fisherman can see?" (usually forgetting that there is a multiuse path that now parallels the bridge too).
Quote from: DaBigE on September 18, 2015, 01:32:36 AM
Quote from: Roadguy on September 18, 2015, 01:01:40 AM
The most extreme example of decorative work in Wisconsin in terms of an overall majors project so far has been 41 where along all of the bridges, sign bridges, and retaining walls they "painted" (it is actually concrete stain) every brick pattern individually by roller brick by brick.
https://goo.gl/maps/RhaR7
On this project alone it cost over $10 million to cover the whole corridor.
The one I see bitched about most are the images that were cast into the bridge piers of the new I-41 Lake Butte des Morts bridge. The commentary is usually something along the lines of "why did we waste money on something only the fisherman can see?" (usually forgetting that there is a multiuse path that now parallels the bridge too).
I, for one, love what WisDOT has done with that brick, but I can see how those more in-tune with the monies would hate it. Has there ever been a public response to the brick? Do most people not give a shit? Or is it one of those things people don't realize they like it until WisDOT replaces it with a standard gantry?
I like the decorative treatments on urban freeway bridges, but they should really be only for the "surface" side of things. One is not going to appreciate such decoration while driving on the freeway. But while walking across the overpass or waiting at the red light, that's another matter. A relatively cheap paint job (for lack of a better term) is one thing, but stamping concrete with brick patterns for a view seen only at 70 mph is unnecessary.
Community sensitive design has its place. I think of the number of times I waited to turn onto I-43 SB at McKinley/Fond du Lac and could glance over at this cool mural that adorns the underside of the overpass. Or the Milwaukee Brewer Color scheme they chose for all the Marquette Interchange bridges. But faux-brick facing on an overpass in the middle of all the strip malls and car dealerships in Oshkosh? Meh.
I think the concrete posts for BGS's is an overreach. It goes beyond a decorative treatment and creates something that is truly exorbitant. I thought the same when I first saw them going up during the Marquette rebuild.
But this is the kind of thing that happens when your state's DOT is in bed with its road building companies.
Quote from: Rothman on September 17, 2015, 10:28:54 PM
On the SPUI between I-87/NY 2/NY 7, the decorations on the overpass are frequently mocked. Concrete shields and tacky art deco designs make people wonder what the point was decorating the thing.
People do like the SPUI better than the old miserable setup, however.
I dunno about you but every time I pass that on the northway I think it looks cool as fuck.
iPad
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on September 21, 2015, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 17, 2015, 10:28:54 PM
On the SPUI between I-87/NY 2/NY 7, the decorations on the overpass are frequently mocked. Concrete shields and tacky art deco designs make people wonder what the point was decorating the thing.
People do like the SPUI better than the old miserable setup, however.
I dunno about you but every time I pass that on the northway I think it looks cool as fuck.
iPad
As I heard the other day: Generations from now when the Northway is overgrown and out of use, archaeologists will come across that bridge and wonder what those strange symbols mean. :D