What interstates begin/end in the middle of nowhere (or an arbitrary point as froggie said), and/or have no begin signs? Interstate 72 in Illinois is setup like this.
Basically, I'm talking about the formation of a major road that comes out of nowhere.
I-95 begins in Houlton, ME which is as middle of nowhere as it gets on the east coast.
Quote from: Buffaboy on September 25, 2015, 04:09:56 PM
What interstates begin in the middle of nowhere, and have no begin signs? Interstate 72 in Illinois is setup like this.
If you count 3di, there are no Begin or End signs on I-540 Arkansas. US 271 enters from Oklahoma as a divided road and 540 begins where 271 splits off at 253.
Sweet Grass, Montana, the north end of I-15 has a grain silo, a duty-free shop, and a post office...
The north end of I-29 at the Canadian border doesn't even have that much.
I-70's west end is usually listed as Cove Fort, but the actual junction with I-15 is empty. Cove Fort is a couple of miles away, and the only noteworthy thing there is a historic site.
There's not much going on at the western end of I-20 (at I-10 in Texas). I can't say for sure whether or not begin/end signs exist, but there is not much civilization to speak of around that point.
I-69 in Southern Indiana currently begins in the middle of nowhere at a half-diamond exit with US 231. Of course this is a temporary terminus which probably accounts for the lack of begin/end signs. By the end of the year this situation will be improved.
Quote from: BuffaboyInterstate 72 in Illinois is setup like this.
I wouldn't exactly call Champaign the "middle of nowhere"...it's a major college town with over 120K people in the area (83K in the city alone). And I wouldn't call its endpoint nowhere either, especially now that there's residential development in 2 quadrants of the interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1204153,-88.3047685,2470m/data=!3m1!1e3)...
Quote from: US71If you count 3di, there are no Begin or End signs on I-540 Arkansas. US 271 enters from Oklahoma as a divided road and 540 begins where 271 splits off at 253.
But, being in the Fort Smith area, I wouldn't call that the "middle of nowhere" either.
The I-70 and I-20 examples are probably the best ones out there.
(EDIT: fixed since I have a certain Vermont lake on the brain. Danke, Brandon.)
Quote from: froggie on September 25, 2015, 06:04:11 PM
QuoteInterstate 72 in Illinois is setup like this.
I wouldn't exactly call Champlain Champaign the "middle of nowhere"...it's a major college town with over 120K people in the area (83K in the city alone). And I wouldn't call its endpoint nowhere either, especially now that there's residential development in 2 quadrants of the interchange (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1204153,-88.3047685,2470m/data=!3m1!1e3)...
Champaign-Urbana, more appropriately. The U of I is in both municipalities. And Hannibal, Missouri isn't all that small either.
Sturbridge for I-84 isn't particularly big or populated, but there are begin/end signs on account of the Mass Pike toll booth complexes. On the other end, I-84 is fairly rural really all the way up to I-81, but then you get into Scranton there. However, there are End shields there.
EDIT: There are no end shields at I-81.
Hmm, I'm thinking that by "middle of nowhere" the OP means not that the terminus is particularly remote, but just that the Interstate designation kicks in at some relatively arbitrary location, not right at an interchange. Is that it?
iPhone
I-83 ends a little weirdly in the east side of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. You're in the middle of Colonial Park, a nice suburb of Harrisburg and about six or so miles from Linglestown.
Quote from: empirestate on September 25, 2015, 07:45:49 PM
Hmm, I'm thinking that by "middle of nowhere" the OP means not that the terminus is particularly remote, but just that the Interstate designation kicks in at some relatively arbitrary location, not right at an interchange. Is that it?
iPhone
Outside of incomplete interstates, does that really happen all that often?
Quote from: kkt on September 25, 2015, 05:28:46 PM
Sweet Grass, Montana, the north end of I-15 has a grain silo, a duty-free shop, and a post office...
It's as if it hits a wall and can't go any further.
Quote from: empirestate on September 25, 2015, 07:45:49 PM
Hmm, I'm thinking that by "middle of nowhere" the OP means not that the terminus is particularly remote, but just that the Interstate designation kicks in at some relatively arbitrary location, not right at an interchange. Is that it?
iPhone
Correct.
Of course US 83 is The Road to Nowhere for Brownsville to...nowhere. :D
The WEST end of I-78
I-384, both parts
Quote from: empirestate on September 25, 2015, 07:45:49 PM
Hmm, I'm thinking that by "middle of nowhere" the OP means not that the terminus is particularly remote, but just that the Interstate designation kicks in at some relatively arbitrary location, not right at an interchange. Is that it?
That is the way I interpreted the question. Lots of roadways begin/end in what some may call "the middle of nowhere". What is rarer are roadways that become freeways/expressways on a new alignment and are not directly connected to the roadway they are bypassing. I can think of a few such examples in West Virginia? along some of those Corridor XYZ roadways. Many of the current Interstate freeways had segments like this, but now are completely connected.
Not an Interstate, but the freeway segment of MA 2 in the western half of the state begins at an arbitrary place – starting at exit 14 and increasing, no other major roads nearby (MA US 202 is not major), and no connection to another freeway until reaching I-190.
Before it was extended west to I-70, I-64's western terminus was not at an interchange, but at the Daniel Boone Bridge across the Missouri River, roughly thirty miles west of downtown St. Louis.
North end of I-26 in Tennessee. It's at an interchange, but there's no logical reason it can't continue on to the end of the freeway at the next exit.
I also don't understand why I-140 in North Carolina doesn't continue all the way to US 17.
I-82 at both ends (outskirts of Ellensburg, WA and outskirts of Hermiston, OR).
US 195's southern terminus near Lewiston, ID is on a lonely ridge.
I-90's west end is a bit west of I-5, not at an interchange.
There are several Missouri state routes that end at random streets in downtown St. Louis:
MO-100 (ends at Chouteau Avenue)
MO-231 (ends at River City Casino Boulevard)
MO-267 (ends at River City Casino Boulevard)
MO-366 (ends at Broadway and Chippewa Street)
I think most if not all of them were cut off when the freeway system through downtown was constructed.
Quote from: kkt on September 26, 2015, 12:01:25 AM
I-90's west end is a bit west of I-5, not at an interchange.
I find it funny that both I-90 and US 2 begin at state highways (519 and 529, respectively) a little west of their interchanges with I-5.
I think we'll find that there are few Interstates that meet the OP's criteria (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16527.msg2095915#msg2095915) of ending at an arbitrary point, and far fewer that do so in a remote or rural area, as most of the examples that do exist (i.e. I-195 ME, I-565 AL) are in cities or urban areas. The only one I can think of offhand that doesn't is I-69 southwest of Memphis, TN.
Quote from: froggie on September 26, 2015, 07:45:26 AM
I think we'll find that there are few Interstates that meet the OP's criteria (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16527.msg2095915#msg2095915) of ending at an arbitrary point, and far fewer that do so in a remote or rural area, as most of the examples that do exist (i.e. I-195 ME, I-565 AL) are in cities or urban areas. The only one I can think of offhand that doesn't is I-69 southwest of Memphis, TN.
I don't think they have to be in remote or rural areas to qualify, just that they don't begin/end at an obvious location like an interchange or the physical end of the highway. I will grant, though, that most Interstates that do extend that little bit beyond their obvious interchange endpoints, like I-90 does in Seattle, then go on to end at some other pretty obvious points like a surface street intersection or, again, the physical end of the highway. There are certainly not many Interstates that just come into being as you happen to be tooling down some divided highway that wasn't previously an Interstate.
Maybe the west end of I-2 is like this? I haven't seen it, nor am I certain exactly where it begins.
...right now, the I-99 and I-86 temporary ends in NY seem to qualify...?
I-691 both ends, I-291 CT both ends, MA east end, I-391 south end, I-587 north end.
US 167 has a southern terminus in Abbeville, near no other US routes. But then again, there isn't a whole lot of civilization south or west of it to connect with, except LA 82.
In a way, Breezewood/I-70 is sort of like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9987915,-78.2390111,3a,75y,206.78h,78.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7w0aBO7sYv0_KZvQLnCmBg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
NM Highway 9 runs from NM Highway 80 near Rodeo to the Luna/Doña Ana County Line. The road continues eastward until its junction with NM Highway 136. When it crosses the county line, it's abruptly downgraded from a state highway to County Road A-003. The profile of the road (lane width, shoulders, etc.) continues unchanged. The mile markers continue counting up, and signs (not shields) at the eastern terminus refer to the road as Highway 9.
Your eastbound ride on Highway 9 abruptly ends here:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2FIMG_0934_zps3wtay8j4.jpg&hash=8eae30fc02b8ed152048dcacb09d42d1fa5e9a1e) (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/martinbartlett/media/IMG_0934_zps3wtay8j4.jpg.html)
Here's the first eastbound County Road A-003 shield:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2FIMG_0938_zpsv8ts3uja.jpg&hash=403492c27b02f23ab465fc04c69fe0d012c3f106) (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/martinbartlett/media/IMG_0938_zpsv8ts3uja.jpg.html)
Interestingly, the shield which appears to be from 1993, indicates it's property of NMDOT:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2FIMG_0939_zps2d0qz1pz.jpg&hash=689b6e868e4a6df7d06d355ad595c2b72817a42c) (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/martinbartlett/media/IMG_0939_zps2d0qz1pz.jpg.html)
Riding westbound, this is the beginning of NM Highway 9:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2FIMG_0933_zpswkawzcu6.jpg&hash=ec1a02a42f5b7cdf4b23f6ccd5b9a90e1130aaa8) (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/martinbartlett/media/IMG_0933_zpswkawzcu6.jpg.html)
And your first westbound state highway shield:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2FIMG_0936_zpszc4baxmq.jpg&hash=0e913b2e12fe9ad0338a932c614ee7c3d678d20c) (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/martinbartlett/media/IMG_0936_zpszc4baxmq.jpg.html)
Mile markers continues uninterrupted in both directions:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2FIMG_0931_zpsb8ruct5i.jpg&hash=4147d96a9dc69a3569c81844ac673089e34a9f10) (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/martinbartlett/media/IMG_0931_zpsb8ruct5i.jpg.html)
Here are signs from the intersection of NM Highway 136 and County Road A-003, a/k/a Highway 9:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2FIMG_0929_zps8sprxmpp.jpg&hash=db0253937eccdfd2334361abe71a2180c0535540) (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/martinbartlett/media/IMG_0929_zps8sprxmpp.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2FIMG_0930_zpsjzpalskt.jpg&hash=d3cd16579b8e4aa63640e17a60741be1062896db) (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/martinbartlett/media/IMG_0930_zpsjzpalskt.jpg.html)
Quote from: formulanone on September 26, 2015, 10:28:29 PM
US 167 has a southern terminus in Abbeville, near no other US routes. But then again, there isn't a whole lot of civilization south or west of it to connect with, except LA 82.
I do not know why they just do not truncate it either to Opalouses or even Alexandria. It would make most sense.
Then how about US 319 mysteriously ending at a point a few miles east of Apalachicola, FL instead of in that town itself. It makes no sense in ending where it does while concurrent with US 98 on a narrow strip of land. Heck make it go over the bridge and end where US 98 turns in Downtown Apalachicola.
Quote from: Bruce on September 26, 2015, 12:14:59 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 26, 2015, 12:01:25 AM
I-90's west end is a bit west of I-5, not at an interchange.
I find it funny that both I-90 and US 2 begin at state highways (519 and 529, respectively) a little west of their interchanges with I-5.
Both ends of I-90 are at state highways (MA 1A on the east end) and neither is temporary. Does any other Interstate have that characteristic?
US 222 has both MD 222 and PA 222 at both ends.
A few come to mind.
The northern end of I-505. Just a simple interchange near Dunnigan.
The eastern end of I-8 near Casa Grande, AZ.
The northern end of I-25 near Buffalo, WY.
The eastern end of the western I-76.
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on September 25, 2015, 07:02:59 PM
Sturbridge for I-84 isn't particularly big or populated, but there are begin/end signs on account of the Mass Pike toll booth complexes.
Good guess, but an inaccurate one. In mid-2004, MassHighway placed begin and end markers, also "END 1 1/2 MILES" signs, along those Interstates and freeways with physical beginning and end points within Massachusetts. This was done at the request of then-Governor Mitt Romney, largely in response to a Boston Sunday Globe article critical of the state's route signing. AFAIK, most of these signs are still in place to this day.
There are all sorts of highways where state maintenance begins/ends at seemingly random points in Kentucky.
As has been discussed elsewhere, Indiana is probably the most egregious offender in this department. Highways often end at county lines and city limits, because INDOT has ceded control of the road to one local government, but not to its neighbor. Motorists are left to fend for themselves.
An example near me is SR-933 which exists only in St. Joseph County. When it hits the Elkhart County line, it stops. This GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6638024,-86.0641594,3a,75y,89.72h,90.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_LsPYPL0HKMjUtC9J6DsEw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) makes it look like a really random end, though 933 actually ends at the stop light ahead.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 28, 2015, 11:28:31 AM
The eastern end of I-8 near Casa Grande, AZ.
I wouldn't call Casa Grande in the middle of nowhere. Casa Grande is a fast-growing city of over 50,000 people, and I expect that it may someday surpass Flagstaff (the northern terminus of I-17) in population.
Quote from: theline on September 28, 2015, 06:25:24 PM
As has been discussed elsewhere, Indiana is probably the most egregious offender in this department. Highways often end at county lines and city limits, because INDOT has ceded control of the road to one local government, but not to its neighbor. Motorists are left to fend for themselves.
Oh please. Indiana has nothing on Maryland in this regard. Say hello to MD 94 (http://tm.teresco.org/devel/hb.php?r=md.md094), MD 129 (http://tm.teresco.org/devel/hb.php?r=md.md129), MD 169 (http://tm.teresco.org/devel/hb.php?r=md.md169), MD 231 (http://tm.teresco.org/devel/hb.php?r=md.md231), MD 367 (http://tm.teresco.org/devel/hb.php?r=md.md367), MD 368 (http://tm.teresco.org/devel/hb.php?r=md.md368)...
New Jersey also has a fairly high incidence rate of state highways ending in oddball spots although it's not quite as bad as Maryland. But it does have two routes (NJ 152 and NJ 161) that are completely orphaned from the rest of the state highway system.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on September 28, 2015, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 28, 2015, 11:28:31 AM
The eastern end of I-8 near Casa Grande, AZ.
I wouldn't call Casa Grande in the middle of nowhere. Casa Grande is a fast-growing city of over 50,000 people, and I expect that it may someday surpass Flagstaff (the northern terminus of I-17) in population.
And even if it where, the OP clarified that it isn't the remoteness of the terminus we're interested in, but its configuration. I-8 ends at I-10 in a very ordinary fashion, rather than beginning out of the "middle of nowhere", as it were.
iPhone
AZ 95 at I-40 Exit 9
AZ 95 at Colorado River Bridge
AZ 99 at National Forest Boundary
There ought to be a special prize for CA 299, which changes from good 2-lane highway to a dirt track marked "unmaintained" at the Nevada border.
US 26 at the western end where it connects with US 101 is not part of any city. Back in the day US 26 and US 101 were co-signed to Astoria and terminated where US 30 began in downtown. Before the Astoria-Megler Bridge was completed it took a ferry to cross the Columbia.
US 199 and US 101 also have the same deal going on. The half-interchange is three miles north of Crescent City in the middle of the woods. US 199 used to be co-signed with US 101 into downtown Crescent City.
Rick
Rick
The majority of the spur highways in Nebraska, I would guess, end at the literal edge of town, with no intersection involved.
Western end of NJ 72, a traffic circle in the pine barrens.
Interstate 68 at both ends feel like it is the middle of nowhere.
Debatable: I59 in GA.
Quote from: kkt on September 29, 2015, 06:54:36 PM
There ought to be a special prize for CA 299, which changes from good 2-lane highway to a dirt track marked "unmaintained" at the Nevada border.
NY 421 deserves a similar prize. A little shorter than 6 miles, it leads nowhere and its western terminus is where it becomes a dirt road. At some point, I'm going to get up there. GSV doesn't even have imagery for it.
Quote from: empirestate on September 26, 2015, 08:16:57 AM
Quote from: froggie on September 26, 2015, 07:45:26 AM
I think we'll find that there are few Interstates that meet the OP's criteria (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16527.msg2095915#msg2095915) of ending at an arbitrary point, and far fewer that do so in a remote or rural area, as most of the examples that do exist (i.e. I-195 ME, I-565 AL) are in cities or urban areas. The only one I can think of offhand that doesn't is I-69 southwest of Memphis, TN.
I don't think they have to be in remote or rural areas to qualify, just that they don't begin/end at an obvious location like an interchange or the physical end of the highway. I will grant, though, that most Interstates that do extend that little bit beyond their obvious interchange endpoints, like I-90 does in Seattle, then go on to end at some other pretty obvious points like a surface street intersection or, again, the physical end of the highway. There are certainly not many Interstates that just come into being as you happen to be tooling down some divided highway that wasn't previously an Interstate.
Maybe the west end of I-2 is like this? I haven't seen it, nor am I certain exactly where it begins.
Quote from: jemacedo9 on September 26, 2015, 08:51:52 AM
...right now, the I-99 and I-86 temporary ends in NY seem to qualify...?
As do the nonsensical I-73 and I-74 in NC.
Quote from: cl94 on September 30, 2015, 09:34:58 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 29, 2015, 06:54:36 PM
There ought to be a special prize for CA 299, which changes from good 2-lane highway to a dirt track marked "unmaintained" at the Nevada border.
NY 421 deserves a similar prize. A little shorter than 6 miles, it leads nowhere and its western terminus is where it becomes a dirt road. At some point, I'm going to get up there. GSV doesn't even have imagery for it.
That one definitely takes the cake. Other notable ones are NY 418 (ends at a truss bridge over the Hudson; only thing nearby is the train station) and NY 331 (ends at the Montgomery/Fulton county line out in farm country). The end of NY 421 is just totally random. I think it services a campground and the dirt road servicing a defunct station on the Adirondack Scenic Railroad and maybe another campground. It has the lowest AADT of any state highway in NY.
Of course, there's also NY 171, notable for not connecting to another state highway
period.
Quote from: vdeane on September 30, 2015, 12:55:35 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 30, 2015, 09:34:58 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 29, 2015, 06:54:36 PM
There ought to be a special prize for CA 299, which changes from good 2-lane highway to a dirt track marked "unmaintained" at the Nevada border.
NY 421 deserves a similar prize. A little shorter than 6 miles, it leads nowhere and its western terminus is where it becomes a dirt road. At some point, I'm going to get up there. GSV doesn't even have imagery for it.
That one definitely takes the cake. Other notable ones are NY 418 (ends at a truss bridge over the Hudson; only thing nearby is the train station) and NY 331 (ends at the Montgomery/Fulton county line out in farm country). The end of NY 421 is just totally random. I think it services a campground and the dirt road servicing a defunct station on the Adirondack Scenic Railroad and maybe another campground. It has the lowest AADT of any state highway in NY.
Of course, there's also NY 171, notable for not connecting to another state highway period.
I've driven NY 418. It has an interesting endpoint to let NYSDOT maintain the bridge, but at least it connects to CR 2 and CR 4, which provide access to all of western Warren County and northern Saratoga County. Traffic counts aren't high, but they're far from the lowest in Region 1, let alone the state. For the narrow, winding road it is, it sees quite a bit of traffic.
The north end of ME 161 west of Allagash is pretty desolate. Go any further past the end and you can easily get lost on the hundreds of miles of logging roads and ATV trails that exist in those parts of Maine.
PA 163 does weird crap with its western terminus. It briefly enters Maryland then ends with farmland and a north-south 2 lane road than a 4 lane road. The I-81 interchange isn't far from you, and that 2 lane road takes you to Hagerstown. The shocker is that the 2 lane road is actually Greencastle Pike, A.K.A MD 63 on the Maryland side. You're actually in Maryland when you're at I-81 and here.
If we allow non-Interstate freeways, US 30 in PA, especially the freeway gap in Lancaster and Chester counties, comes to mind
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
Quote from: TEG24601 on October 01, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
NJ 90 (a freeway, no less) ceases ends at the PA state line (though the freeway itself does briefly continue unnumbered, ending at I-95).
Quote from: bzakharin on October 01, 2015, 05:46:47 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on October 01, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
NJ 90 (a freeway, no less) ceases ends at the PA state line (though the freeway itself does briefly continue unnumbered, ending at I-95).
That makes sense because NJ 90 is the Betsy Ross Bridge - technically NJ 90 ends there.
A-410 and A-610 outside Sherbrooke
Quote from: vdeane on September 30, 2015, 12:55:35 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 30, 2015, 09:34:58 AM
Quote from: kkt on September 29, 2015, 06:54:36 PM
There ought to be a special prize for CA 299, which changes from good 2-lane highway to a dirt track marked "unmaintained" at the Nevada border.
NY 421 deserves a similar prize. A little shorter than 6 miles, it leads nowhere and its western terminus is where it becomes a dirt road. At some point, I'm going to get up there. GSV doesn't even have imagery for it.
That one definitely takes the cake. Other notable ones are NY 418 (ends at a truss bridge over the Hudson; only thing nearby is the train station) and NY 331 (ends at the Montgomery/Fulton county line out in farm country). The end of NY 421 is just totally random. I think it services a campground and the dirt road servicing a defunct station on the Adirondack Scenic Railroad and maybe another campground. It has the lowest AADT of any state highway in NY.
Of course, there's also NY 171, notable for not connecting to another state highway period.
A TON of highways out West end like that. Wyoming has a bunch of dead-end spurs to nowhere, and UT 312 is about 5 miles from any other state highway.
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 01, 2015, 09:16:03 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on October 01, 2015, 05:46:47 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on October 01, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
NJ 90 (a freeway, no less) ceases ends at the PA state line (though the freeway itself does briefly continue unnumbered, ending at I-95).
That makes sense because NJ 90 is the Betsy Ross Bridge - technically NJ 90 ends there.
Given DRPA's status as a joint state entity NJ 90 does continue across the bridge to the I-95 interchange.
Quote from: ekt8750 on October 03, 2015, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 01, 2015, 09:16:03 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on October 01, 2015, 05:46:47 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on October 01, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
NJ 90 (a freeway, no less) ceases ends at the PA state line (though the freeway itself does briefly continue unnumbered, ending at I-95).
That makes sense because NJ 90 is the Betsy Ross Bridge - technically NJ 90 ends there.
Given DRPA's status as a joint state entity NJ 90 does continue across the bridge to the I-95 interchange.
It's signed as if it continues to the I-95 interchange, but in reality it either ends midspan or at the beginning of the bridge.
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 03, 2015, 04:59:41 PM
Quote from: ekt8750 on October 03, 2015, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 01, 2015, 09:16:03 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on October 01, 2015, 05:46:47 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on October 01, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
NJ 90 (a freeway, no less) ceases ends at the PA state line (though the freeway itself does briefly continue unnumbered, ending at I-95).
That makes sense because NJ 90 is the Betsy Ross Bridge - technically NJ 90 ends there.
Given DRPA's status as a joint state entity NJ 90 does continue across the bridge to the I-95 interchange.
It's signed as if it continues to the I-95 interchange, but in reality it either ends midspan or at the beginning of the bridge.
It's only signed that way at the exit from I-95. Once you're actually on the roadway on the PA side, there is a TO before the 90 shield: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9934677,-75.0791039,3a,75y,146.87h,83.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI-A5gsYw4Q4Ej3HmDcr9Vg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1!6m1!1e1. And this sign on the NJ side implies you're still not on NJ 90: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9830938,-75.0620807,3a,75y,119.11h,107.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sevGHCZC3VV5aeub8h7YdcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1!6m1!1e1 (unless it means stay on NJ 90 instead of exiting onto US 130). The next sign with essentially the same message and still on the bridge says to "follow" NJ 90 instead of "use" it and has a black square background, while a third sign is a carbon copy of the first. Did NJDOT install the middle sign for some reason?
The first reassurance sign along with a pull-through is past the toll barrier on the NJ side. But I assume it ends midspan since that's generally how NJ borders work for state routes.
Interstate 57. Just starts at the end of the US 60 "expressway" and I-55 at a cloverleaf.
Interstate 76 in Ohio starts way outside of Akron at Westfield.
Quote from: bzakharin on October 06, 2015, 10:05:46 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 03, 2015, 04:59:41 PM
Quote from: ekt8750 on October 03, 2015, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 01, 2015, 09:16:03 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on October 01, 2015, 05:46:47 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on October 01, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
NJ 90 (a freeway, no less) ceases ends at the PA state line (though the freeway itself does briefly continue unnumbered, ending at I-95).
That makes sense because NJ 90 is the Betsy Ross Bridge - technically NJ 90 ends there.
Given DRPA's status as a joint state entity NJ 90 does continue across the bridge to the I-95 interchange.
It's signed as if it continues to the I-95 interchange, but in reality it either ends midspan or at the beginning of the bridge.
It's only signed that way at the exit from I-95. Once you're actually on the roadway on the PA side, there is a TO before the 90 shield: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9934677,-75.0791039,3a,75y,146.87h,83.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI-A5gsYw4Q4Ej3HmDcr9Vg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1!6m1!1e1. And this sign on the NJ side implies you're still not on NJ 90: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9830938,-75.0620807,3a,75y,119.11h,107.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sevGHCZC3VV5aeub8h7YdcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1!6m1!1e1 (unless it means stay on NJ 90 instead of exiting onto US 130). The next sign with essentially the same message and still on the bridge says to "follow" NJ 90 instead of "use" it and has a black square background, while a third sign is a carbon copy of the first. Did NJDOT install the middle sign for some reason?
The first reassurance sign along with a pull-through is past the toll barrier on the NJ side. But I assume it ends midspan since that's generally how NJ borders work for state routes.
I believe the above-signage inconsistencies (let's call it for what it is) is largely due to PennDOT, the DRPA, and NJDOT not fully communicating with each other.
It's worth noting that the original interchange signage off I-95 for the Besty Ross Bridge (PennDOT button-copy BGS') had no route number listings at all. The BGS' simply read:
Besty Ross Bridge
Pennsauken
New JerseyMy guess is that the spelled-out
New Jersey was a
temporary placeholder for a future Tacony/Pulaski Expressway destination listing (that never came to be) en lieu of just a blank green space.
At the ramp splits, the original BGS' for the bridge had a blank space for a future Route 90 shield (it probably would've been a PA Keystone or
PA XX in text form (or NJ shield/text for eastbound/PA shield/text for westbound) had the Expressway west of the interchange been built. Those BGS' read:
EAST
Betsy Ross Bridge
PennsaukenAt the southbound ramp split, there was one blank BGS reserved for the cancelled-expressway exit (the northbound gantry had no blank BGS board); which was replaced with new signage when the Aramingo Ave. connection was made circa 1999-2000. That project include the erection of the current I-95 interchange signage w/the NJ 90 shields on PennDOT BGS'.
Given that there is only NJ 90 shields (as opposed to PA 90 shields) on the PA-side of the bridge; it's a reasonable assumption that NJ 90
officially ends either somewhere mid-span or at the tollbooths located on the Jersey-side. If it is indeed the latter, then the DPRA BGS with the
TO prefix is indeed appropriate. OTOH, if it's the former, then DRPA
should remove the
TO prefix.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 07, 2015, 09:12:29 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on October 06, 2015, 10:05:46 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 03, 2015, 04:59:41 PM
Quote from: ekt8750 on October 03, 2015, 02:54:33 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 01, 2015, 09:16:03 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on October 01, 2015, 05:46:47 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on October 01, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
NJ 90 (a freeway, no less) ceases ends at the PA state line (though the freeway itself does briefly continue unnumbered, ending at I-95).
That makes sense because NJ 90 is the Betsy Ross Bridge - technically NJ 90 ends there.
Given DRPA's status as a joint state entity NJ 90 does continue across the bridge to the I-95 interchange.
It's signed as if it continues to the I-95 interchange, but in reality it either ends midspan or at the beginning of the bridge.
It's only signed that way at the exit from I-95. Once you're actually on the roadway on the PA side, there is a TO before the 90 shield: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9934677,-75.0791039,3a,75y,146.87h,83.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sI-A5gsYw4Q4Ej3HmDcr9Vg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1!6m1!1e1. And this sign on the NJ side implies you're still not on NJ 90: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9830938,-75.0620807,3a,75y,119.11h,107.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sevGHCZC3VV5aeub8h7YdcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1!6m1!1e1 (unless it means stay on NJ 90 instead of exiting onto US 130). The next sign with essentially the same message and still on the bridge says to "follow" NJ 90 instead of "use" it and has a black square background, while a third sign is a carbon copy of the first. Did NJDOT install the middle sign for some reason?
The first reassurance sign along with a pull-through is past the toll barrier on the NJ side. But I assume it ends midspan since that's generally how NJ borders work for state routes.
I believe the above-signage inconsistencies (let's call it for what it is) is largely due to PennDOT, the DRPA, and NJDOT not fully communicating with each other.
It's worth noting that the original interchange signage off I-95 for the Besty Ross Bridge (PennDOT button-copy BGS') had no route number listings at all. The BGS' simply read:
Besty Ross Bridge
Pennsauken
New Jersey
My guess is that the spelled-out New Jersey was a temporary placeholder for a future Tacony/Pulaski Expressway destination listing (that never came to be) en lieu of just a blank green space.
At the ramp splits, the original BGS' for the bridge had a blank space for a future Route 90 shield (it probably would've been a PA Keystone or PA XX in text form (or NJ shield/text for eastbound/PA shield/text for westbound) had the Expressway west of the interchange been built. Those BGS' read:
EAST
Betsy Ross Bridge
Pennsauken
At the southbound ramp split, there was one blank BGS reserved for the cancelled-expressway exit (the northbound gantry had no blank BGS board); which was replaced with new signage when the Aramingo Ave. connection was made circa 1999-2000. That project include the erection of the current I-95 interchange signage w/the NJ 90 shields on PennDOT BGS'.
Given that there is only NJ 90 shields (as opposed to PA 90 shields) on the PA-side of the bridge; it's a reasonable assumption that NJ 90 officially ends either somewhere mid-span or at the tollbooths located on the Jersey-side. If it is indeed the latter, then the DPRA BGS with the TO prefix is indeed appropriate. OTOH, if it's the former, then DRPA should remove the TO prefix.
You could also argue that NJ90 ends when DRPA maintence starts.
I've been through there recently, they're really tearing up the ghost ramp config, making it an actual road now.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on October 07, 2015, 09:18:32 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 07, 2015, 09:12:29 AMGiven that there is only NJ 90 shields (as opposed to PA 90 shields) on the PA-side of the bridge; it's a reasonable assumption that NJ 90 officially ends either somewhere mid-span or at the tollbooths located on the Jersey-side. If it is indeed the latter, then the DPRA BGS with the TO prefix is indeed appropriate. OTOH, if it's the former, then DRPA should remove the TO prefix.
You could also argue that NJ90 ends when DRPA maintence starts.
I believe such was the implied intent with my earlier-mentioned NJ 90 possibly ending at the tollbooths (see above-repost).
Quote from: SteveG1988 on October 07, 2015, 09:18:32 AMI've been through there recently, they're really tearing up the ghost ramp config, making it an actual road now.
Yep. IMHO, this work
should've been done when the ramps from Aramingo Ave. to I-95 were built some 15 to 16 years ago.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 07, 2015, 01:32:04 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on October 07, 2015, 09:18:32 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 07, 2015, 09:12:29 AMGiven that there is only NJ 90 shields (as opposed to PA 90 shields) on the PA-side of the bridge; it's a reasonable assumption that NJ 90 officially ends either somewhere mid-span or at the tollbooths located on the Jersey-side. If it is indeed the latter, then the DPRA BGS with the TO prefix is indeed appropriate. OTOH, if it's the former, then DRPA should remove the TO prefix.
You could also argue that NJ90 ends when DRPA maintence starts.
I believe such was the implied intent with my earlier-mentioned NJ 90 possibly ending at the tollbooths (see above-repost).
Quote from: SteveG1988 on October 07, 2015, 09:18:32 AMI've been through there recently, they're really tearing up the ghost ramp config, making it an actual road now.
Yep. IMHO, this work should've been done when the ramps from Aramingo Ave. to I-95 were built some 15 to 16 years ago.
I'm pretty sure DRPA maintains the entire road from NJ 73 through the PA side of the bridge where the ramps start.
Quote from: TEG24601 on October 01, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
How about IN-120, ending at the Michigan line, where it continues east as a local road, until it drops south into Ohio, where it continues on as OH-120.
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on October 08, 2015, 01:27:08 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on October 01, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
How about IN-120, ending at the Michigan line, where it continues east as a local road, until it drops south into Ohio, where it continues on as OH-120.
Prior to 1961, the local road was M-120 as well.
http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwys120-139.html#M-120
Quote from: ekt8750 on October 08, 2015, 01:39:30 AMI'm pretty sure DRPA maintains the entire road from NJ 73 through the PA side of the bridge where the ramps start.
I'm not sure about maintenance; but NJDOT-spec'd signage starts (for NJ 90 Eastbound) just after the offramp for US 130 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.972877,-75.0331347,3a,75y,66.05h,83.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suZJArZc1O5BhHMma_HXvzw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1).
Had NJ 90 continued eastward towards I-295, as originally planned; that stretch would've certainly been NJDOT maintained unless such was a tolled road.
Quote from: catch22 on October 08, 2015, 02:21:59 PM
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on October 08, 2015, 01:27:08 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on October 01, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
Indiana's SR 18 ends at the Illinois state line. No Illinois highway on the other side, just a county road.
How about IN-120, ending at the Michigan line, where it continues east as a local road, until it drops south into Ohio, where it continues on as OH-120.
Prior to 1961, the local road was M-120 as well.
http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwys120-139.html#M-120
Around the country there must be lots of examples like Indiana's SR 18 becoming a county road when it continues into Illinois. A quick check of the Indiana-Michigan border reveals these:
- Michigan's M-217 becomes Elkhart County Road 17 at the Indiana line. There are no shields on the Indiana road, since Indiana doesn't do that.
- Indiana's SR-327 becomes Rierson Road in Michigan.
- Indiana's SR-120, as mentioned above.
Missouri 76 ends at a county dirt road at the border in Tipp City, Oklahoma.
Doesn't I-229 in Sioux Falls end in a dirt road too? Granted it's at I-90 (I think) but still.
Also, does I-8 end at I-5 or Sea World?
Quote from: The Nature Boy on September 25, 2015, 04:25:50 PM
I-95 begins in Houlton, ME which is as middle of nowhere as it gets on the east coast.
It hits the Canadian border, continuing as NB95 to Woodstock, NB and the TCH. Not exactly the middle of nowhere, but admittedly not a huge town
Quote from: SteveG1988 on October 06, 2015, 10:17:59 PM
Interstate 76 in Ohio starts way outside of Akron at Westfield.
Except that really isnt in the middle of nowhere -- that is pretty much where the original concentration of Truck Stops outside of the Cleveland/Akron Area was located -- not including the trucker service areas one exit south at OH-83. The next group of Truck Stops (not li'l one-off greasy spoon diners) at the time were West of Norwalk on US-20 and on I-80 east of the Ohio Turnpike and nothing on I-90 east of Cleveland until you get to near the Madison/Asthabula area.
Plus there is a lot of traffic which passes through that interchange, so it really isn't out in the middle of nowhere like I-70 in Cove Fort, Utah.
Technically I-22 now starts in the middle of a construction zone in Mississippi about 12 miles southeast of where US 78 crosses into Tennessee, halfway between two interchanges.
And I-69 in Mississippi now starts in the middle of a field at the Tunica/De Soto county line.
Quote from: OracleUsr on December 06, 2015, 09:31:56 PM
Doesn't I-229 in Sioux Falls end in a dirt road too? Granted it's at I-90 (I think) but still.
Paved about a decade ago.
Quote from: thenetwork on December 07, 2015, 04:46:22 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on October 06, 2015, 10:17:59 PM
Interstate 76 in Ohio starts way outside of Akron at Westfield.
Except that really isnt in the middle of nowhere -- that is pretty much where the original concentration of Truck Stops outside of the Cleveland/Akron Area was located -- not including the trucker service areas one exit south at OH-83. The next group of Truck Stops (not li'l one-off greasy spoon diners) at the time were West of Norwalk on US-20 and on I-80 east of the Ohio Turnpike and nothing on I-90 east of Cleveland until you get to near the Madison/Asthabula area.
Plus there is a lot of traffic which passes through that interchange, so it really isn't out in the middle of nowhere like I-70 in Cove Fort, Utah.
I certainly wouldn't call that the middle of nowhere. Might be a bunch of farms, but traffic counts on I-71 in that area are near 50K and growing, there is suburban development, and it's only 20 miles from Akron.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2015, 10:15:21 PM
North end of I-26 in Tennessee. It's at an interchange, but there's no logical reason it can't continue on to the end of the freeway at the next exit.
I thought TN was required to end the I-26 designation at US 11W because that last exit before the VA border is a TN secondary route.