There is no Charlotte thread. So let's have one!
Often times at work, I leave a browser tab open to Google Maps, and I notice that I-77 southbound is often backed up from Mooresville to Huntersville during weekday AFTERNOON rush hour. This is essentially going towards the city. The northbound crawl away from the city in the afternoons seems to thin out a little once you're past Cornelius, but the southbound backup baffles me a bit. Does Mooresville really have a sizable enough job base to justify this apparent reverse commuting pattern? I know Lowe's Home Improvement is headquartered there, but I wouldn't think that would be enough.
Traffic at the lake is hell during the week. My wife has some business in Charlotte and what is usually about 45-50 mins from Statesville stretches into an hour to an hour and a half.
Probably has a lot to do with the fact that I-77 is only two lanes on each side until it reaches I-485. Not to mention the interstate and intrastate commuters coming from Virginia and points north, along with I-40. Similar situation with I-77 in south Charlotte heading north. It is almost always backed up.
I heard somewhere that HOT Lanes were coming to the Charlotte Area. Is this still the case, or did I mishear about that?
You are correct. HOT lanes are coming to 77 north of Charlotte, I believe.
Quote from: Third Strike on October 16, 2015, 05:34:22 PM
Probably has a lot to do with the fact that I-77 is only two lanes on each side until it reaches I-485. Not to mention the interstate and intrastate commuters coming from Virginia and points north, along with I-40. Similar situation with I-77 in south Charlotte heading north. It is almost always backed up.
Probably because it is closer to the center city than I-85 is.
Quote from: brownpelican on October 16, 2015, 06:59:12 PM
You are correct. HOT lanes are coming to 77 north of Charlotte, I believe.
And if a widening should occur south of there, they should build HOT lanes on that stretch as well.
Quote from: Henry on October 20, 2015, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: brownpelican on October 16, 2015, 06:59:12 PM
You are correct. HOT lanes are coming to 77 north of Charlotte, I believe.
And if a widening should occur south of there, they should build HOT lanes on that stretch as well.
That is actually planned.
The planned rebuilding of I-77 from Uptown to the SC state line will be the single largest and most complicated project ever undertaken by the NCDOT. All bridges will have to be torn down and replaced along with a large amount of commercial property purchased. Right now they're talking about 2 additional toll lanes added on each side bringing the total highway to 10 lanes with construction starting in 2024. Possible costs might exceed $1B.
http://www.heraldonline.com/news/local/article12316673.html
Good to see that 77 in Charlotte will match 77 in York County.
As they say, "Charlotte's got a lot".
Quote from: Cemajr on October 21, 2015, 10:19:57 PM
The planned rebuilding of I-77 from Uptown to the SC state line will be the single largest and most complicated project ever undertaken by the NCDOT. All bridges will have to be torn down and replaced along with a large amount of commercial property purchased. Right now they're talking about 2 additional toll lanes added on each side bringing the total highway to 10 lanes with construction starting in 2024. Possible costs might exceed $1B.
There they go, pissing off Atlanta again! Copycatting the Downtown Connector is a sure way to do that to their archrival. (But wait a minute, there aren't any toll lanes on I-75/I-85 yet, are there?)
Quote from: Cemajr on October 21, 2015, 10:19:57 PM
The planned rebuilding of I-77 from Uptown to the SC state line will be the single largest and most complicated project ever undertaken by the NCDOT. All bridges will have to be torn down and replaced along with a large amount of commercial property purchased. Right now they're talking about 2 additional toll lanes added on each side bringing the total highway to 10 lanes with construction starting in 2024. Possible costs might exceed $1B.
http://www.heraldonline.com/news/local/article12316673.html
Does anybody know if the Tyvola interchange will have to be rebuilt? To my understanding, the interchange was updated to a single-point urban interchange back in the early 2000s. I use to pass by it everyday, and I'm wondering if it is possible to squeeze in two more lanes on each sides.
Quote from: Third Strike on October 22, 2015, 10:30:00 PM
Quote from: Cemajr on October 21, 2015, 10:19:57 PM
The planned rebuilding of I-77 from Uptown to the SC state line will be the single largest and most complicated project ever undertaken by the NCDOT. All bridges will have to be torn down and replaced along with a large amount of commercial property purchased. Right now they're talking about 2 additional toll lanes added on each side bringing the total highway to 10 lanes with construction starting in 2024. Possible costs might exceed $1B.
http://www.heraldonline.com/news/local/article12316673.html
Does anybody know if the Tyvola interchange will have to be rebuilt? To my understanding, the interchange was updated to a single-point urban interchange back in the early 2000s. I use to pass by it everyday, and I'm wondering if it is possible to squeeze in two more lanes on each sides.
They can easily squeeze in 1 more lane on each side for sure. 2 might be pushing it since I bet they want a 'buffer' between the toll and normal lanes. Might have to shrink all the lanes a foot to pull it off, especially on the SB side.
https://goo.gl/maps/EN8Sgse7eeL2
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on October 23, 2015, 03:16:04 AM
Quote from: Third Strike on October 22, 2015, 10:30:00 PM
Quote from: Cemajr on October 21, 2015, 10:19:57 PM
The planned rebuilding of I-77 from Uptown to the SC state line will be the single largest and most complicated project ever undertaken by the NCDOT. All bridges will have to be torn down and replaced along with a large amount of commercial property purchased. Right now they're talking about 2 additional toll lanes added on each side bringing the total highway to 10 lanes with construction starting in 2024. Possible costs might exceed $1B.
http://www.heraldonline.com/news/local/article12316673.html
Does anybody know if the Tyvola interchange will have to be rebuilt? To my understanding, the interchange was updated to a single-point urban interchange back in the early 2000s. I use to pass by it everyday, and I'm wondering if it is possible to squeeze in two more lanes on each sides.
They can easily squeeze in 1 more lane on each side for sure. 2 might be pushing it since I bet they want a 'buffer' between the toll and normal lanes. Might have to shrink all the lanes a foot to pull it off, especially on the SB side.
https://goo.gl/maps/EN8Sgse7eeL2
It'll be interesting to see how they handle the interchange in the widening project. Rebuilding it twice within a span of 20 years makes absolutely no sense.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on October 23, 2015, 03:16:04 AM
They can easily squeeze in 1 more lane on each side for sure. 2 might be pushing it since I bet they want a 'buffer' between the toll and normal lanes. Might have to shrink all the lanes a foot to pull it off, especially on the SB side.
https://goo.gl/maps/EN8Sgse7eeL2
I doubt the FHWA would grant a waiver to that. The documentation on NCDOT website calls for one toll lane each direction, if curious.
They'll probably have to tear down that Tyvola interchange. There's virtually no room in the median to expand and it doesn't look like two more can fit on the outside of the current lanes.
Construction to begin on I-77 toll lanes on Monday
http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/local/2015/11/12/construction-on-i-77-toll-lanes-to-begin-monday/75652954/
Does anybody know when the Idlewild interchange on Independence Blvd is going to reopen? Seems like they've been working on it forever, and the eastbound ramp still isn't finished. Not to mention work on the Sharon Amity interchange has finally resumed after almost a year. Is this project still slated to be completed by the end of 2016?
I believe one of the bridges that would be impacted by any I-77 widening is a railroad bridge near Tyvola Road. I have no clue how THAT would work.
Every single overpass will have to be torn down for I-77. The only way the Tyvola interchange would survive is if they only decide to add just two lanes to the project. As it stands, the NCDOT wants to add four, two on each side, and very likely auxiliary lanes as well. I believe this project will be one of the most expensive projects ever taken on by the NCDOT. The road essentially has to be rebuilt, along with ROW acquisition. I'm also wondering if the toll lanes will link with certain interchanges, like the I-485 one.
A judge has ruled to continue with the Widen 77's lawsuit (http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/i-77-toll-lanes-developer-forges-ahead-project/npzW3/) against the construction of toll lanes on I-77 in northern Mecklenburg County. The group wanted the proceedings delayed until "the political process" is worked out.
Construction is continuing despite the legal and political arguments.
Does anyone think the lawsuit will eventually stop the lanes from being completed?
Maybe they should put I-73/74 on indefinite hold until they can figure out how to divert those funds to constructing free lanes along I-77. After all, one of those projects is far more important than the other.
Quote from: Cemajr on January 11, 2016, 02:49:17 AM
Maybe they should put I-73/74 on indefinite hold until they can figure out how to divert those funds to constructing free lanes along I-77. After all, one of those projects is far more important than the other.
Well if you want to do that - then widening 95 to six lanes should be first
By which metric?
It depends on what NCDOT values:
Widening I-95 helps people get through the state more quickly. But I-95 mainly serves Fayetteville and the poor parts of eastern NC so I can see why it isn't an especially high priority. Making traffic flow through Charlotte might be a higher priority since I assume that more North Carolinians will benefit.
It's a classic urban vs. rural funding question though. I-95 is very important to people in say Halifax, Nash or Johnston counties but the rest of the state really gets little benefit. For those people though, I-95 is important. The argument for Charlotte is that more free-flowing traffic might encourage businesses to relocate to the area and will facilitate its growth.
NCDOT could benefit both rural and urban NC by building a southern tier freeway using what has already been built for I-74 between Rockingham and Lumberton. It would connect Wilmington and southeastern NC to Charlotte and better connecting Charlotte to western NC and Asheville. I imagine that you'd see more sprawl into Union and Gaston Counties with the building of an east-west interstate highway through the area and it might alleviate some of the sprawl in Cabarrus County and northern Mecklenburg County.
The CRTPO voted (http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/politics/2016/01/20/s-official--77-toll-lanes-go/79095448/) Wednesday night in favor of the I-77 toll lanes project.
Work is already underway on the project.
Does anyone know if toll lanes are coming to any other parts of Charlotte's freeway system?
Probably. ETL's (as Maryland calls them) are proposed for parts of I-485 (http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/I-5507/) and two (http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/U-5526/) sections (http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/U-2509/) of US 74. In addition, the Monroe bypass (http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/monroeconnector/) is currently under construction and will be a toll road.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 22, 2016, 04:31:25 PM
Does anyone know if toll lanes are coming to any other parts of Charlotte's freeway system?
Toll lane will also be on
I-485, between US 74 and I-77/US 21, and on
US 74 (Independence Frwy/Blvd). These will be operated by NCDOT, thus not have the same issues as the I-77 lanes constructed by Cintra.
Did you not see my response, Washu? (complete with links to the project websites)
Long ago, I don't really recall I-77 having heavy traffic. Has Charlotte grown massively after ten years?
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 24, 2016, 11:05:54 AM
Long ago, I don't really recall I-77 having heavy traffic. Has Charlotte grown massively after ten years?
Just out of curiosity, how can you possibly remember what Charlotte traffic was like ten years ago?
But yes, the Charlotte area is growing rapidly, as is the state of North Carolina in general.
I remember Charlotte traffic 20 years ago!
Quote from: ModernDayWarrior on January 24, 2016, 07:00:10 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 24, 2016, 11:05:54 AM
Long ago, I don't really recall I-77 having heavy traffic. Has Charlotte grown massively after ten years?
Just out of curiosity, how can you possibly remember what Charlotte traffic was like ten years ago?
I got a deep memory of my adventures of North Carolina.
Which suggests that you aren't the age you claim to be...
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2016, 07:56:42 PM
Which suggests that you aren't the age you claim to be...
No, my age is correct, but sometimes I just have that good of a memory. I was in fact around one year old when we visited Charlotte.
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 24, 2016, 08:56:21 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2016, 07:56:42 PM
Which suggests that you aren't the age you claim to be...
No, my age is correct, but sometimes I just have that good of a memory. I was in fact around one year old when we visited Charlotte.
Yet IMDB says you've been a member since October 2001, unless there's another noelbotevera out there?
Quote from: US71 on January 24, 2016, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 24, 2016, 08:56:21 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2016, 07:56:42 PM
Which suggests that you aren't the age you claim to be...
No, my age is correct, but sometimes I just have that good of a memory. I was in fact around one year old when we visited Charlotte.
Yet IMDB says you've been a member since October 2001, unless there's another noelbotevera out there?
That's my dad.
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2016, 07:56:42 PM
Which suggests that you aren't the age you claim to be...
Lots more of his posts have suggested that.
Frankly, I find it creepy that someone would pretend to be an 11-year old.
I crossed over I-77 today on the NC 150 overpass. At that point 77's entire median had been final graded.
Quote from: Rothman on January 26, 2016, 08:51:21 AM
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2016, 07:56:42 PM
Which suggests that you aren't the age you claim to be...
Lots more of his posts have suggested that.
Frankly, I find it creepy that someone would pretend to be an 11-year old.
Seems we were wrong. :D
I could be wrong, so wrong!
Lyrics from Maybe, Maybe
By A-ha
Album: Scoundrel Days
Year: 1986
I am too lazy to look it up, but where is the northern limit of the I-77 work?
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on September 13, 2016, 10:25:10 PM
I am too lazy to look it up, but where is the northern limit of the I-77 work?
If you mean the express lanes, it ends at Exit 36.
Has there been any updates on the US 74 widening project in Charlotte? Original completion date was October 2016, but there's still a ton of work to be done, especially around the Sharon Amity interchange. I'm guessing Spring of 2017 at this rate?
Quote from: Third Strike on October 02, 2016, 07:30:56 PM
Has there been any updates on the US 74 widening project in Charlotte? Original completion date was October 2016, but there's still a ton of work to be done, especially around the Sharon Amity interchange. I'm guessing Spring of 2017 at this rate?
I remember hearing that the original contractor defaulted back around the beginning of this year, and NCDOT had to find another contractor.
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2016, 07:56:42 PM
Which suggests that you aren't the age you claim to be...
Actually, he is the age that he says he is, he was at my road meet and his dad this past April, his real name is Alex.
Now to get back on topic, last time I passed through Charlotte was in 2008 and even then I can tell it had grown significantly grown since the mid 90's when I travelled through there regularly on road trips back and forth from York, PA to Columbia\ Sumter, SC
Quote from: jpi on October 04, 2016, 12:50:13 AM
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2016, 07:56:42 PM
Which suggests that you aren't the age you claim to be...
Actually, he is the age that he says he is, he was at my road meet and his dad this past April, his real name is [deleted].
Dude...some people prefer to be anonymous on here. Not cool to out their real name, even in defense of their age. :D
Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2016, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: jpi on October 04, 2016, 12:50:13 AM
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2016, 07:56:42 PM
Which suggests that you aren't the age you claim to be...
Actually, he is the age that he says he is, he was at my road meet and his dad this past April, his real name is Alex.
Dude...some people prefer to be anonymous on here. Not cool to out their real name, even in defense of their age. :D
Good point, just defending the little guy. :)
That was also several months ago, before anybody had met him...
Quote from: jpi on October 04, 2016, 03:40:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2016, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: jpi on October 04, 2016, 12:50:13 AM
Quote from: froggie on January 24, 2016, 07:56:42 PM
Which suggests that you aren't the age you claim to be...
Actually, he is the age that he says he is, he was at my road meet and his dad this past April, his real name is Alex.
Dude...some people prefer to be anonymous on here. Not cool to out their real name, even in defense of their age. :D
Good point, just defending the little guy. :)
Nah, I don't care. In fact, I prefer being called my real name because it's a bit confusing using my dad's name. So feel free to call me Alex.
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 17, 2016, 05:38:01 PM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on September 13, 2016, 10:25:10 PM
I am too lazy to look it up, but where is the northern limit of the I-77 work?
If you mean the express lanes, it ends at Exit 36.
This looks like a make-work project that will be drawn out for a while to keep people employed. It will be nice when it is done, though. We came through there northbound on Thursday and it looked like they were having some kind of malfunction in the middle of the project (sorry, don't have the exact location other than north of exit 35). It looks like the roadway is in place all through there with work being done on median dividers, etc. -- except where there was a sinkhole that took out part of the lanes.
Also, we had the misfortune of having to travel I-77 on the afternoon before Thanksgiving (not my choice but unavoidable). Traffic was pretty jammed up from around Troutman until we got on I-485 to get around Charlotte, until we got into a small back-up to get back on I-77 (not anything like the jam to get on I-85 from I-485). We also sat in traffic coming back north due to a bad wreck on the southbound side on one of the bridges over Lake Norman (rubberneckers, I guess, had traffic moving slowly north). While it may be a bit out of the way, is I-85 approaching Charlotte from say, Salisbury, the same malfunction? Does it get jammed up/locked up or are there enough alternate routes to take care of diverted traffic? My thought is to jog over to Winston-Salem via I-74/U.S. 52, then continue south on 52 to hit I-85 at Lexington, then take that to I-485 and on around Charlotte.
Bruce in Blacksburg
The NCDOT has updated the status of the US 74 widening project in southeast Charlotte. Looks like the project won't be completed until sometime next Summer. That's around the same time work on the express lane project on I-485 in southern Charlotte will commence. And that shortens the break, as construction on the remaining segment of US 74 in Charlotte/Matthews will happen about four years later.
Lowe's is the reason why traffic is so screwed up between Mooresville and Huntersville in the afternoon. My sister works for a realtor in Mooresville and lives near Birkdale in Huntersville. There are some days when it takes her an hour or more to make the 12 mile trip.
Quote from: ccurley100 on March 02, 2017, 08:08:42 PM
Lowe's is the reason why traffic is so screwed up between Mooresville and Huntersville in the afternoon. My sister works for a realtor in Mooresville and lives near Birkdale in Huntersville. There are some days when it takes her an hour or more to make the 12 mile trip.
Welcome to the forum!
I had to visit a couple of the retail locations for the company I work for. Wanted to note that property demolition is well underway and ROW clearing is just starting where the US 74 North Shelby freeway will cross NC 18.
Also that demolition is occurring at the NE quadrant of I-85 and US 321 for whatever project manager is happening there.
I dread going across the lake in the afternoons; I-77 Southbound at Langtree is a nightmare. Granted, my wife and i don't do so even every week, but when we do it's never good. Always a relief when we reach the Davidson exit
I'd like to revive this thread, to at least announce that on Facebook I have posted pictures of the I-77 Express Lane project, from southern end all way up to the Northern End.
Its in SE Roads group and Freeway Jim
Quote from: jcarte29 on July 23, 2018, 03:58:19 PM
I'd like to revive this thread, to at least announce that on Facebook I have posted pictures of the I-77 Express Lane project, from southern end all way up to the Northern End.
We were just there this weekend for an anniversary celebration and stayed near the Northlake Mall (convenient to The Melting Pot in Huntersville). For something different we went down I-74/U.S. 52 through Winston-Salem and on to I-85 (worked to get us to Concord Mills). Sat in traffic at the never-ending construction on I-85 (same traffic we ran into a few years ago when taking the same route). Looked at almost-standstill traffic in the southbound lanes of I-77 late Saturday afternoon while heading north to Huntersville (came back on Statesville Rd. to avoid the interstate -- much easier trip -- but what is the plan for four-laning the stretch under I-485?). Fought our way through the construction on I-77 going south on Sunday and back again (headed to the new First Watch in Matthews for breakfast -- always worth the drive for First Watch). After multiple trips through Charlotte over the past three years (heading to and from Tampa) I still see no rhyme or reason to how the work is being done or what the end result will be. At times, there are multiple lanes paved but only two or three are in use, then on another trip the lanes have shifted for no reason. Construction seems to move from place to place, also, instead of being done in some rational order. It looks like an extended make-work project to keep people employed for some time into the future.
Bruce in Blacksburg
Quote from: VTGoose on July 24, 2018, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: jcarte29 on July 23, 2018, 03:58:19 PM
I'd like to revive this thread, to at least announce that on Facebook I have posted pictures of the I-77 Express Lane project, from southern end all way up to the Northern End.
We were just there this weekend for an anniversary celebration and stayed near the Northlake Mall (convenient to The Melting Pot in Huntersville). For something different we went down I-74/U.S. 52 through Winston-Salem and on to I-85 (worked to get us to Concord Mills). Sat in traffic at the never-ending construction on I-85 (same traffic we ran into a few years ago when taking the same route). Looked at almost-standstill traffic in the southbound lanes of I-77 late Saturday afternoon while heading north to Huntersville (came back on Statesville Rd. to avoid the interstate -- much easier trip -- but what is the plan for four-laning the stretch under I-485?). Fought our way through the construction on I-77 going south on Sunday and back again (headed to the new First Watch in Matthews for breakfast -- always worth the drive for First Watch). After multiple trips through Charlotte over the past three years (heading to and from Tampa) I still see no rhyme or reason to how the work is being done or what the end result will be. At times, there are multiple lanes paved but only two or three are in use, then on another trip the lanes have shifted for no reason. Construction seems to move from place to place, also, instead of being done in some rational order. It looks like an extended make-work project to keep people employed for some time into the future.
Bruce in Blacksburg
I don't disagree with you on any of that lol.
52/85 is the best connection from W-S to charlotte, especially once the new lanes through Kannapolis/Concord are complete (and all of them free lol).
I live and work in Huntersville, so fortunately I don't depend on 77 (merely cross over it two/three times a day) but the express lanes will be a benefit when I do need to go into town and uptown.
To your point about the project's progress, another outstanding point. I have no idea how it will be completed on time, just blind faith lol.
" [Today] Transportation Secretary Jim Trogdon laid out his proposed path forward for the I-77 express lanes project that responds to concerns voiced by residents of north Mecklenburg County and feedback from the I-77 local advisory group. The I-77 contract was signed by the previous administration, and today's plan lays out the eventual objective for North Carolina to operate the project with clear steps that can be taken to help people more immediately."
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2018/2018-08-15-i-77-express-lanes.aspx
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article216674435.html
It took a couple examinations of the project renderings, but I have made some notes about where toll gantries will be along I-77 HOT lanes.
The reasoning for this is two fold, one, to be aware of where they are given I live smack dab in middle of the project, and two, to make everyone here aware because through all my searches there isn't a user-friendly map anywhere on the project sites. (Good examples are maps of the Tri-Ex showing each gantry and the Monroe Expressway also showing gantry locations)
Working from South to North, there are 5 SB and 5 NB gantries in Mecklenburg Co.
- 1 each at the foot of the direct connector off of I-277, just north of the Oaklawn Av Bridge
- 1 SB just north of Cindy Ln, 1 NB just south of Sunset Rd, maybe MP 15?
- 1 SB, 1 NB, each are between MP 16-18, but south of the Lakeview Dr Connector
- 1 SB, 1 NB each are between MP 21-23, but south of Mt Holly/Htsville bridge and N of Hambright Connector
- 1 SB Exit 25 Sam Furr, south of exit ramp but still north of the SF Bridge itself
- 1 NB, north of Sam Furr, south of Westmoreland bridge, MP 26 possibly?
In Iredell Co, I count 2 SB and 1 NB (this is where I might solicit conversation here, because that doesn't balance out)
- 1 SB, 1 NB each are between MP 31-33, but south of Fairview Rd 90 deg turn parallel to 77
- 1 SB just south of Exit 35 (Brawley School), north of the short Lake Norman bridge
So it would make sense if there was one more NB gantry, but I missed it in my study. Anyone care to help? Or maybe there isn't one after all.
On September 13-
"With I-77 Express set to open in late 2018, I-77 Mobility Partners will hold a public hearing to provide a presentation on toll pricing methodology and initial toll rates. Those persons wishing to comment about the proposed toll rates at the hearing must register at the venue prior to 7:00 p.m."
It will be at Huntersville United Methodist Church, Huntersville, NC. You will want to be there by 6:30 to register.
Quote from: jcarte29 on August 30, 2018, 09:16:27 AM
On September 13-
"With I-77 Express set to open in late 2018 . . .
I want what he's drinking. We made a weekend trip to the Charlotte airport (cheaper to fly 5 of us to middle son's wedding in Key West than to fly out of Roanoke), which covered I-77 south to the I-85 junction. There are now toll gantries in place in several locations and lots and lots of new (and covered) signs. But there is still a lot of construction, lane shifts, and rough pavement. If the lanes are supposed to open by the end of the year there will have to be around-the-clock work going on or maybe the plan is to move traffic to the newly paved toll lanes (and charge?) while the other lanes are paved. At any rate, this has been the most screwed-up and convoluted construction project I have ever seen. If there were a better way to get from Blacksburg to the west coast of Florida, I would take it (I've looked at I-74 but it goes east at Rockingham to hit I-95, which is too far out of the way; U.S. 52 and/or NC/SC 38 just don't look like fast routes).
Bruce in Blacksburg
Quote from: VTGoose on November 07, 2018, 03:45:42 PM
Quote from: jcarte29 on August 30, 2018, 09:16:27 AM
On September 13-
"With I-77 Express set to open in late 2018 . . .
I want what he's drinking. We made a weekend trip to the Charlotte airport (cheaper to fly 5 of us to middle son's wedding in Key West than to fly out of Roanoke), which covered I-77 south to the I-85 junction. There are now toll gantries in place in several locations and lots and lots of new (and covered) signs. But there is still a lot of construction, lane shifts, and rough pavement. If the lanes are supposed to open by the end of the year there will have to be around-the-clock work going on or maybe the plan is to move traffic to the newly paved toll lanes (and charge?) while the other lanes are paved. At any rate, this has been the most screwed-up and convoluted construction project I have ever seen. If there were a better way to get from Blacksburg to the west coast of Florida, I would take it (I've looked at I-74 but it goes east at Rockingham to hit I-95, which is too far out of the way; U.S. 52 and/or NC/SC 38 just don't look like fast routes).
Bruce in Blacksburg
That line was from a direct quote. I live on I-77, and I agree with you on every point. There's now talk it will open in "segments" which was not the original intentions.
For example, the direct connector from Hambright Rd won't open until Summer 2019, even as the lanes are open throughout the project (MM 11-36)
I have not found any news or articles about which segments will open and when that will be...and I've even been by the new customer service centers for NC Turnpike Authority in both Monroe and Charlotte, and they are as clueless about it. (Not to say they aren't helpful, they are, and the first project that *will* make its opening on time is the Monroe Expressway)
http://www.fox46charlotte.com/news/local-news/i-77-toll-lane-project-will-not-open-by-end-of-2018-as-planned-officials-confirm
A follow up to my comment on 11/08, but vague on details :-/
Quote from: jcarte29 on November 14, 2018, 08:06:20 AM
http://www.fox46charlotte.com/news/local-news/i-77-toll-lane-project-will-not-open-by-end-of-2018-as-planned-officials-confirm
A follow up to my comment on 11/08, but vague on details :-/
<gomer pyle>Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!</gomer pyle>
Details? Anyone who has driven through that abomination can see that the contractor(s) failed that construction management class. It would be interesting to find out how the managers determined which random section would be worked on -- dart board? turn of a playing card? blindfolded pointing to a map?
It was interesting to read one of the related stories attached to the above story, about how the contractor put in 8 miles of median barrier without rebar.
Quote
The concrete barrier wall being built from exit 28 to exit 36 is being replaced after a major mishap in construction.
"What's upsetting is that it's going to go on even longer because they obviously don't know what they're doing," said Shannon Horne.
Sugar Creek Construction built the first barrier wall without steel rebar, according to the North Carolina Department of Transportation.
Shannon is one smart person -- too bad she didn't work for NCDOT when these contracts were being let.
It will be interesting to see the "progress" next week as we head south for Thanksgiving.
Bruce in Blacksburg
Quote from: jcarte29 on November 08, 2018, 09:45:43 AM
Quote from: VTGoose on November 07, 2018, 03:45:42 PM
Quote from: jcarte29 on August 30, 2018, 09:16:27 AM
On September 13-
"With I-77 Express set to open in late 2018 . . .
I want what he's drinking. We made a weekend trip to the Charlotte airport (cheaper to fly 5 of us to middle son's wedding in Key West than to fly out of Roanoke), which covered I-77 south to the I-85 junction. There are now toll gantries in place in several locations and lots and lots of new (and covered) signs. But there is still a lot of construction, lane shifts, and rough pavement. If the lanes are supposed to open by the end of the year there will have to be around-the-clock work going on or maybe the plan is to move traffic to the newly paved toll lanes (and charge?) while the other lanes are paved. At any rate, this has been the most screwed-up and convoluted construction project I have ever seen. If there were a better way to get from Blacksburg to the west coast of Florida, I would take it (I've looked at I-74 but it goes east at Rockingham to hit I-95, which is too far out of the way; U.S. 52 and/or NC/SC 38 just don't look like fast routes).
Bruce in Blacksburg
That line was from a direct quote. I live on I-77, and I agree with you on every point. There's now talk it will open in "segments" which was not the original intentions.
For example, the direct connector from Hambright Rd won't open until Summer 2019, even as the lanes are open throughout the project (MM 11-36)
I have not found any news or articles about which segments will open and when that will be...and I've even been by the new customer service centers for NC Turnpike Authority in both Monroe and Charlotte, and they are as clueless about it. (Not to say they aren't helpful, they are, and the first project that *will* make its opening on time is the Monroe Expressway)
Quote from: VTGoose on November 14, 2018, 08:46:47 AM
Quote from: jcarte29 on November 14, 2018, 08:06:20 AM
http://www.fox46charlotte.com/news/local-news/i-77-toll-lane-project-will-not-open-by-end-of-2018-as-planned-officials-confirm
A follow up to my comment on 11/08, but vague on details :-/
<gomer pyle>Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!</gomer pyle>
Details? Anyone who has driven through that abomination can see that the contractor(s) failed that construction management class. It would be interesting to find out how the managers determined which random section would be worked on -- dart board? turn of a playing card? blindfolded pointing to a map?
It was interesting to read one of the related stories attached to the above story, about how the contractor put in 8 miles of median barrier without rebar.
Quote
The concrete barrier wall being built from exit 28 to exit 36 is being replaced after a major mishap in construction.
"What's upsetting is that it's going to go on even longer because they obviously don't know what they're doing," said Shannon Horne.
Sugar Creek Construction built the first barrier wall without steel rebar, according to the North Carolina Department of Transportation.
Shannon is one smart person -- too bad she didn't work for NCDOT when these contracts were being let.
It will be interesting to see the "progress" next week as we head south for Thanksgiving.
Bruce in Blacksburg
This is the kind of BS that I'd expect in Chicago, given how crooked their government is.
Quote from: VTGoose on November 14, 2018, 08:46:47 AM
Quote from: jcarte29 on November 14, 2018, 08:06:20 AM
http://www.fox46charlotte.com/news/local-news/i-77-toll-lane-project-will-not-open-by-end-of-2018-as-planned-officials-confirm
A follow up to my comment on 11/08, but vague on details :-/
<gomer pyle>Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!</gomer pyle>
Details? Anyone who has driven through that abomination can see that the contractor(s) failed that construction management class. It would be interesting to find out how the managers determined which random section would be worked on -- dart board? turn of a playing card? blindfolded pointing to a map?
It was interesting to read one of the related stories attached to the above story, about how the contractor put in 8 miles of median barrier without rebar.
Quote
The concrete barrier wall being built from exit 28 to exit 36 is being replaced after a major mishap in construction.
"What's upsetting is that it's going to go on even longer because they obviously don't know what they're doing," said Shannon Horne.
Sugar Creek Construction built the first barrier wall without steel rebar, according to the North Carolina Department of Transportation.
Shannon is one smart person -- too bad she didn't work for NCDOT when these contracts were being let.
It will be interesting to see the "progress" next week as we head south for Thanksgiving.
Bruce in Blacksburg
Is it too late to buy that company out and let the NC Turnpike authority run these toll lanes?
According to the DOT, yes, a buyout is likely. The state has expressed a willingness to buy them out and convert one of the toll lanes to general purpose, but insisted they can't do that until the state does all it's scoring and calculations for the next STIP to determine a horizion year. Which to say the least has been met with skepticism from local leaders who feel since NCDOT created this disaster, maybe NCDOT should treat this as a special case to solve it faster. I'm sure that discontment will only grow with this new development.
Quote from: VTGoose on December 02, 2016, 11:59:13 AM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 17, 2016, 05:38:01 PM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on September 13, 2016, 10:25:10 PM
I am too lazy to look it up, but where is the northern limit of the I-77 work?
If you mean the express lanes, it ends at Exit 36.
This looks like a make-work project that will be drawn out for a while to keep people employed. It will be nice when it is done, though. We came through there northbound on Thursday and it looked like they were having some kind of malfunction in the middle of the project (sorry, don't have the exact location other than north of exit 35). It looks like the roadway is in place all through there with work being done on median dividers, etc. -- except where there was a sinkhole that took out part of the lanes.
Also, we had the misfortune of having to travel I-77 on the afternoon before Thanksgiving (not my choice but unavoidable). Traffic was pretty jammed up from around Troutman until we got on I-485 to get around Charlotte, until we got into a small back-up to get back on I-77 (not anything like the jam to get on I-85 from I-485). We also sat in traffic coming back north due to a bad wreck on the southbound side on one of the bridges over Lake Norman (rubberneckers, I guess, had traffic moving slowly north). While it may be a bit out of the way, is I-85 approaching Charlotte from say, Salisbury, the same malfunction? Does it get jammed up/locked up or are there enough alternate routes to take care of diverted traffic? My thought is to jog over to Winston-Salem via I-74/U.S. 52, then continue south on 52 to hit I-85 at Lexington, then take that to I-485 and on around Charlotte.
Bruce in Blacksburg
The portion between the 77/485 interchange north of Uptown Charlotte is part of the current toll lane construction. The portion from Uptown south to the SC state line is going to be a massive project calling for 10 lanes (5 in each direction) and probably won't be completed in the next 5 years. Last I heard from CDOT officials it was still being debated whether the additional 2 lanes should be both tolled or 1 tolled and 1 free.
Quote from: Cemajr on November 21, 2018, 03:12:59 PM
Quote from: VTGoose on December 02, 2016, 11:59:13 AM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 17, 2016, 05:38:01 PM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on September 13, 2016, 10:25:10 PM
I am too lazy to look it up, but where is the northern limit of the I-77 work?
If you mean the express lanes, it ends at Exit 36.
This looks like a make-work project that will be drawn out for a while to keep people employed. It will be nice when it is done, though. We came through there northbound on Thursday and it looked like they were having some kind of malfunction in the middle of the project (sorry, don't have the exact location other than north of exit 35). It looks like the roadway is in place all through there with work being done on median dividers, etc. -- except where there was a sinkhole that took out part of the lanes.
Also, we had the misfortune of having to travel I-77 on the afternoon before Thanksgiving (not my choice but unavoidable). Traffic was pretty jammed up from around Troutman until we got on I-485 to get around Charlotte, until we got into a small back-up to get back on I-77 (not anything like the jam to get on I-85 from I-485). We also sat in traffic coming back north due to a bad wreck on the southbound side on one of the bridges over Lake Norman (rubberneckers, I guess, had traffic moving slowly north). While it may be a bit out of the way, is I-85 approaching Charlotte from say, Salisbury, the same malfunction? Does it get jammed up/locked up or are there enough alternate routes to take care of diverted traffic? My thought is to jog over to Winston-Salem via I-74/U.S. 52, then continue south on 52 to hit I-85 at Lexington, then take that to I-485 and on around Charlotte.
Bruce in Blacksburg
The portion between the 77/485 interchange north of Uptown Charlotte is part of the current toll lane construction. The portion from Uptown south to the SC state line is going to be a massive project calling for 10 lanes (5 in each direction) and probably won't be completed in the next 5 years. Last I heard from CDOT officials it was still being debated whether the additional 2 lanes should be both tolled or 1 tolled and 1 free.
Miles 11-36 (I-277 intersection being the southern end) is the toll project.
But because its so far behind, its now going to open in segments, which wasn't the original intentions. Uggghh
One more thing for clarification if it's needed....
The construction on I-85 from Salisbury to Concord are additional free lanes, and will make I-85 continuous 6+ lanes a side from 40/85 split near Chapel Hill all the way south and west of Gastonia/Kings Mountain.
I drove the entire toll lane project stretch tonight, couple surprises...
- separators are already plugged randomly between exits 28 and 33, which feels like a good sign that it's in the final phase of lane placement, but they are still way behind schedule, as there are many BGS off one of the ramps waiting to be installed.
- Exit 30 looks done, but my view was only from the interstate up on the bridge, and according to the emails, should be in final phases.
- South of I-485 it doesn't look a hair different than a month ago. No gantries going up yet, no traffic shifts different than I remember.
This entire thing is so botched up and mis-managed. It was correctly pointed out the other day that the Monroe Expressway started after this project, and opened earlier!
I-77 Express: January Construction Update
REMINDER: Please be careful; all of the I-77 Express 26-mile project is currently under construction. Safety is our number one goal. Motorists are encouraged to pay attention when approaching the work zone, adjust their driving to the road conditions, obey the posted speed limit and work zone signs, and allow extra time to reach their destinations safely. Pedestrians are also encouraged to be extra cautious, cross at a designated pedestrian crossings and obey the posted work zone signs.
Progress on I-77 Express continues and is on track to help make travel easier in the Charlotte and Lake Norman region. Below is a look at the construction activities happening this month:
- Sign installation, landscaping and other aesthetic improvements will occur near Griffith Street and Williamson Road in Mooresville.
- Crews continue final paving efforts on the Exit 30 off-ramp of I-77 Northbound. Contingent on temperature requirements, the final layers of pavement are anticipated to be placed in February, followed by the completion of the final sidewalk and curb.
- Surface milling and final asphalt is being placed for the on-ramp and off-ramp at Exit 28 Catawba Avenue in Cornelius.
- Concrete deck work is completed for the Hambright Road Direct Connector bridge in Huntersville. Rail installation and retaining wall work will continue during February.
- Lane pavement and concrete barrier construction continue on northbound and southbound I-77 Express from Lakeview Road to W.T. Harris Boulevard.
- Beam installation is completed for the Lakeview Road Direct Connector bridge in Charlotte. Deck panel placement is the next step in preparation for the concrete deck pour.
- Final asphalt will be placed on the on-ramp to southbound I-77 from Lasalle Street in Charlotte during the upcoming weeks.
- Storm water drainage installation and retaining wall construction between Lasalle Street and Oaklawn Avenue will occur throughout January and February in Charlotte.
- Continued sound wall installation in the areas of Oaklawn Avenue and the I-77/I-277 interchange will last through spring 2019.
- The ramp from I-277 Westbound to I-77 Southbound is closed as crews work on the new ramp that will take its place in uptown Charlotte. Weather permitting, the new ramp is anticipated to open by February.
- Concrete deck pours will occur on the new bridges within the I-277/I-77 interchange through January in uptown Charlotte.
I hope some may find it useful to have these posts quarterly until the project is finished!
https://www.wfae.org/post/new-i-277-ramp-i-77-opens-after-4-month-detour#stream/0
First article I have found to associate an actual date on the calendar for Express Lane opening! (April 1, Northern Segment)
*** TRAFFIC ADVISORY ***
TESTING OF ELECTRONIC SIGNS BEGINS ON I-77 EXPRESS
Charlotte, N.C. (March 22, 2018) — Testing of electronic signs on I-77 between I-485 and Mooresville will begin the week of March 25. Motorists will see the digital message signs on the right-hand side of the road with rotating messages that read "EXPRESS LANES ARE CLOSED" and "TEST."
The toll signs above I-77 Express will also be tested. The toll signs will display numbers to conduct this testing. Drivers may also see test-related vehicles in I-77 Express as this testing is occurring. Each entrance onto I-77 Express will continue to be closed and blocked as the lanes are not in service during this testing period.
I-77 Express will open in sections, with the northern portion between Hambright Road in Huntersville and Exit 36 in Mooresville slated to open soon. When the northern section of the project opens, customers will receive a 25 percent promotional rate off tolls until the entire roadway opens.
To receive traffic advisory information and the latest information on the project, we encourage people to sign up for our e-newsletters: https://www.i77express.com/about-us/contact-us/
You can also follow us on social media at:
I-77 Mobility Partners on Facebook I-77 Express
I-77 Mobility Partners on Twitter @I77Express
I-77 Express runs adjacent to the existing general purpose lanes. The number of general purpose lanes will remain the same as today. Drivers will have the choice of using the express lanes to avoid travel delays, the general purpose lanes or a combination of both.
###
I'm definitely ready to see how many people use the toll lanes once they open. I rarely drive that area as my commute is from Uptown to Ft. Mill, SC but I do normally notice heavy congestion between 277 and 85 on 77 as well as 77 north of 485.
Here is a portion of the 2019 First Quarter Newsletter/Updates for I-77 Express Charlotte to Mooresville:
"We are excited to announce the northern portion of I-77 Express, between Hambright Road in Huntersville and Exit 36 in Mooresville, is opening soon. To ensure you have the information you need to be ready to Get There, take a moment to review this newsletter and begin planning all of the trips that you can make with reliable travel time.
Using I-77 Express
Take a virtual ride on I-77 Express before the toll lanes open. Visit our website, www.i77express.com, to travel along the corridor. Learn about the signs you will see, the vehicles allowed to use the lanes, how to merge into and from the express lanes, and how dynamic pricing works to keep traffic moving. You can also use the Plan Your Trip tool to map your travel along I-77 Express.
Signage
Signs displaying the rate of each segment will be strategically placed ¼ mile ahead of each segment's entry point to give motorists ample time to decide if I-77 Express is the best option for their trip.
The toll rate displayed when entering an I-77 Express segment is the price motorists will be charged for that segment.
Toll rates displayed on I-77 Express' signs will be the transponder rate.
Additional digital message signs will alert drivers about traffic conditions ahead.
Toll Rates
Until the full opening of I-77 Express, customers will receive a promotional rate, which is an average 25 percent rate off the scheduled toll rates listed on the website. During the partial opening, roadway signs displaying toll rates for each segment of I-77 Express will reflect the promotional rate. The toll rate signs are located one-quarter mile before each segment entrance, so you can decide if the express lanes are the best option for your trip.
Dynamic Pricing
I-77 Express has 11 entry and 11 exit points in each direction. Having multiple segments and multiple entry and exit points allows more flexibility for I-77 Express users to plan their trips and pay only for the portions of I-77 Express they use. Toll segments vary in length and have different traffic patterns throughout the day, so based on those factors, rates will vary by segment, direction and time-period. The dynamic adjustment of toll rates allows I-77 Express to manage, in real time, varying traffic and demand conditions in order to maintain a minimum average speed that ranges from 48 to 56 mph, dependent upon the segment, as specified in contractual requirements and federal law."
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/hov-lanes-on-i-77-what-you-need-to-know/949928287
Still no word on any opening announcement. Shocker as it must be.
https://www.wfae.org/post/northern-section-i-77-toll-lane-project-opens-saturday#stream/0
Finally, an open date
Lanes have officially opened today.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-06-04-charlotte-center-extends-hours.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-06-04-charlotte-center-extends-hours.aspx)
https://www.wcnc.com/video/traffic/lots-of-complaints-about-new-i-77-toll-lanes/275-07eda71a-baea-4e37-a6fc-fce69e738a2d
The Express Lanes thus far have been a joke it seems. They had it coming for them though. What a joke of a project and waste of space. All those wide open lanes could be used to relief the congested I-77, but they are failing hard. It should've been a free general purpose 6-lane widening, then towards the southern end maybe 1 HO/T lane.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 13, 2019, 02:15:41 AM
https://www.wcnc.com/video/traffic/lots-of-complaints-about-new-i-77-toll-lanes/275-07eda71a-baea-4e37-a6fc-fce69e738a2d
The Express Lanes thus far have been a joke it seems. They had it coming for them though. What a joke of a project and waste of space. All those wide open lanes could be used to relief the congested I-77, but they are failing hard. It should've been a free general purpose 6-lane widening, then towards the southern end maybe 1 HO/T lane.
That is jumping to conclusions. It takes a while - maybe a year or so - for people to change habits. Just wait. And then the growth (induced demand) that always follows highway construction comes.
The lanes are not complete and the dynamic pricing is not turned on either.
We have a toll road here in the triangle, and while plenty of people "swore they'd never pay a *#$% toll" at first, and traffic/revenue were below projections for the first year, they are solidly above projection now, and people both love the road and don't care about the toll anymore.
Quote from: orulz on June 13, 2019, 06:38:26 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 13, 2019, 02:15:41 AM
https://www.wcnc.com/video/traffic/lots-of-complaints-about-new-i-77-toll-lanes/275-07eda71a-baea-4e37-a6fc-fce69e738a2d (https://www.wcnc.com/video/traffic/lots-of-complaints-about-new-i-77-toll-lanes/275-07eda71a-baea-4e37-a6fc-fce69e738a2d)
The Express Lanes thus far have been a joke it seems. They had it coming for them though. What a joke of a project and waste of space. All those wide open lanes could be used to relief the congested I-77, but they are failing hard. It should've been a free general purpose 6-lane widening, then towards the southern end maybe 1 HO/T lane.
That is jumping to conclusions. It takes a while - maybe a year or so - for people to change habits. Just wait. And then the growth (induced demand) that always follows highway construction comes.
The lanes are not complete and the dynamic pricing is not turned on either.
We have a toll road here in the triangle, and while plenty of people "swore they'd never pay a *#$% toll" at first, and traffic/revenue were below projections for the first year, they are solidly above projection now, and people both love the road and don't care about the toll anymore.
That's what was said about the I-295 Express Lanes here as well. Just wait until the rest of the express lanes here are open, and then people will stop complaining.
Quote from: orulz on June 13, 2019, 06:38:26 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 13, 2019, 02:15:41 AM
https://www.wcnc.com/video/traffic/lots-of-complaints-about-new-i-77-toll-lanes/275-07eda71a-baea-4e37-a6fc-fce69e738a2d
The Express Lanes thus far have been a joke it seems. They had it coming for them though. What a joke of a project and waste of space. All those wide open lanes could be used to relief the congested I-77, but they are failing hard. It should've been a free general purpose 6-lane widening, then towards the southern end maybe 1 HO/T lane.
That is jumping to conclusions. It takes a while - maybe a year or so - for people to change habits. Just wait. And then the growth (induced demand) that always follows highway construction comes.
The lanes are not complete and the dynamic pricing is not turned on either.
We have a toll road here in the triangle, and while plenty of people "swore they'd never pay a *#$% toll" at first, and traffic/revenue were below projections for the first year, they are solidly above projection now, and people both love the road and don't care about the toll anymore.
Haven't used NC 540 at all, saved the money either going down NC 55 or NC 751. Definitely understand the people using it, northerners, I am one myself, are used to paying tolls but, old school ones will avoid at all costs.
Charlotte will get the revenue due to 77 being a nightmare during rush hour but, there will still be holdouts. To what degree, that is let to be determined.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 13, 2019, 02:15:41 AM
https://www.wcnc.com/video/traffic/lots-of-complaints-about-new-i-77-toll-lanes/275-07eda71a-baea-4e37-a6fc-fce69e738a2d
The Express Lanes thus far have been a joke it seems. They had it coming for them though. What a joke of a project and waste of space. All those wide open lanes could be used to relief the congested I-77, but they are failing hard. It should've been a free general purpose 6-lane widening, then towards the southern end maybe 1 HO/T lane.
I'd buy the end of this quote, or one HOT lane from as far north as I-485 going SB to I-277. As it is, this entire 26 mi corridor will be more effective than just the one current open segment.
To be frank so many more commuters will use them going into Charlotte (myself included) than just between Exit 36 and I-485. The "June 2019" update dropped in my email today, it promises that Hambright bridge will at least be open to cross traffic this month. The actual ramps to the interstate will still take a while I'm sure.
A public meeting is being held on June 27 regarding the planned I-485 express lanes.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-06-19-i-485-open-house.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-06-19-i-485-open-house.aspx)
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/drivers-say-merge-lane-too-short-in-i-77-toll-construction-zone/961725532 (https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/drivers-say-merge-lane-too-short-in-i-77-toll-construction-zone/961725532)
The Charlotte RTPO has approved NCDOT's plan to convert the outside shoulders of I-77 to travel lanes during peak hours.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-07-19-i-77-peak-hour-travel-lanes-approved.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-07-19-i-77-peak-hour-travel-lanes-approved.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2019, 10:05:58 AM
The Charlotte RTPO has approved NCDOT's plan to convert the outside shoulders of I-77 to travel lanes during peak hours.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-07-19-i-77-peak-hour-travel-lanes-approved.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-07-19-i-77-peak-hour-travel-lanes-approved.aspx)
Cintra ain't happy...
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/officials-consider-turning-shoulders-on-part-of-i-77-into-driving-lanes/967936014 (https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/officials-consider-turning-shoulders-on-part-of-i-77-into-driving-lanes/967936014)
Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2019, 03:10:41 PM
Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2019, 10:05:58 AM
The Charlotte RTPO has approved NCDOT's plan to convert the outside shoulders of I-77 to travel lanes during peak hours.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-07-19-i-77-peak-hour-travel-lanes-approved.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-07-19-i-77-peak-hour-travel-lanes-approved.aspx)
Cintra ain't happy...
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/officials-consider-turning-shoulders-on-part-of-i-77-into-driving-lanes/967936014 (https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/officials-consider-turning-shoulders-on-part-of-i-77-into-driving-lanes/967936014)
Of course not, they'll loose money.
NCDOT needs to continue forward and eventually buy out the contract and convert one HO/T to a third GP lane each way.
Does I-77 need 10 lanes and 4 express lanes? Because there's a file on the connect NCDOT website and if you want me to post it here, just quote me.
or it can have 8 lanes or even leave it 6 and add the express lanes. Or not do anything at all.
^ It's not getting 10 + 4 express. It's getting 8 + 4 but only from I-277 to I-85. North of I-85 it will be 6 + 4 then it tapers to 4 + 4 north of I-485.
Also, future NCDOT plans of I-77 south of Uptown to the South Carolina border call for four express lanes with addition to the six existing travel lanes; but that is years out from now.
What is it like to visit Charlotte?
Quote from: froggie on July 25, 2019, 06:21:08 AM
^ It's not getting 10 + 4 express. It's getting 8 + 4 but only from I-277 to I-85. North of I-85 it will be 6 + 4 then it tapers to 4 + 4 north of I-485.
Well it needs more lanes. Population is drastically increasing and I was hoping the widening over the river (if I even know what it is) would happen.
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on July 27, 2019, 09:24:25 PM
Quote from: froggie on July 25, 2019, 06:21:08 AM
^ It's not getting 10 + 4 express. It's getting 8 + 4 but only from I-277 to I-85. North of I-85 it will be 6 + 4 then it tapers to 4 + 4 north of I-485.
Well it needs more lanes. Population is drastically increasing and I was hoping the widening over the river (if I even know what it is) would happen.
Mooresville's population was at 19,000 back in 2000 and now is 37,800 as of 2017. That's almost doubling the population.
Stop the spamming!!
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 09:00:09 PM
Stop the spamming!!
So that's off topic? We should be only talking about Charlotte? I will probably wait for a post before i see what it's like and i will post
No, responding to yourself over and over is excessive.
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 09:55:27 PM
No, responding to yourself over and over is excessive.
Ok. I will stop.
Regarding I-77 invoices...
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-6-invoices-due-i-77-express-lanes.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-6-invoices-due-i-77-express-lanes.aspx)
The I-485 express lane project will begin soon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-15-charlotte-express-lanes-construction.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-15-charlotte-express-lanes-construction.aspx)
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 25, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
Also, future NCDOT plans of I-77 south of Uptown to the South Carolina border call for four express lanes with addition to the six existing travel lanes; but that is years out from now.
I can't wait for that one to finally begin construction. I absolutely HATE driving that stretch of 77 pretty much during any part of the day except on weekends. The NCDOT design also calls for a total reconstruction of the outdated interchange at the John Belk Frwy (I-277) and I-77.
Quote from: Cemajr on August 16, 2019, 06:58:31 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 25, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
Also, future NCDOT plans of I-77 south of Uptown to the South Carolina border call for four express lanes with addition to the six existing travel lanes; but that is years out from now.
I can't wait for that one to finally begin construction. I absolutely HATE driving that stretch of 77 pretty much during any part of the day except on weekends. The NCDOT design also calls for a total reconstruction of the outdated interchange at the John Belk Frwy (I-277) and I-77.
Well, it's currently a decade away, so you will have plenty of HATE by then.
Quote from: Cemajr on August 16, 2019, 06:58:31 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 25, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
Also, future NCDOT plans of I-77 south of Uptown to the South Carolina border call for four express lanes with addition to the six existing travel lanes; but that is years out from now.
I can't wait for that one to finally begin construction. I absolutely HATE driving that stretch of 77 pretty much during any part of the day except on weekends. The NCDOT design also calls for a total reconstruction of the outdated interchange at the John Belk Frwy (I-277) and I-77.
This DOT takes FOREVER to widen and plan stuff. Unless people move out of the city maybe traffic congestion wouldn't be as high. But I agree. I-77 sucks. I-85 too.
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 08, 2019, 06:11:59 PM
Quote from: Cemajr on August 16, 2019, 06:58:31 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 25, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
Also, future NCDOT plans of I-77 south of Uptown to the South Carolina border call for four express lanes with addition to the six existing travel lanes; but that is years out from now.
I can't wait for that one to finally begin construction. I absolutely HATE driving that stretch of 77 pretty much during any part of the day except on weekends. The NCDOT design also calls for a total reconstruction of the outdated interchange at the John Belk Frwy (I-277) and I-77.
This DOT takes FOREVER to widen and plan stuff. Unless people move out of the city maybe traffic congestion wouldn't be as high. But I agree. I-77 sucks. I-85 too.
Funding shortfalls have caused the delays in projects all around the state. It's not like they're doing nothing though. I-85 was just widened from 4 to 8 lanes north of Charlotte, I-485 Express Lanes are under construction, the I-77 Express Lanes were recently completed, the Monroe Expressway opened last year, major improvements to the northern part of US-77 converted it into a "Jersey Freeway" where you have private driveway connections and RIROs, but no crossroads and urban interchanges. A free-flowing arterial essentially.
More projects are funded to widen I-85 from 6 to 8 lanes south (west) of Charlotte, add Express Lanes to I-77 to South Carolina as mentioned, and an overhaul of the I-77 / I-85 interchange IIRC.
It's not just NCDOT though that takes "FOREVER". Pretty much all DOTs are this way, and for the record, NCDOT seems to be farther ahead than my state's DOT, though they are catching up as of recently.
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 08, 2019, 06:11:59 PM
Quote from: Cemajr on August 16, 2019, 06:58:31 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 25, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
Also, future NCDOT plans of I-77 south of Uptown to the South Carolina border call for four express lanes with addition to the six existing travel lanes; but that is years out from now.
I can't wait for that one to finally begin construction. I absolutely HATE driving that stretch of 77 pretty much during any part of the day except on weekends. The NCDOT design also calls for a total reconstruction of the outdated interchange at the John Belk Frwy (I-277) and I-77.
This DOT takes FOREVER to widen and plan stuff. Unless people move out of the city maybe traffic congestion wouldn't be as high. But I agree. I-77 sucks. I-85 too.
What you don't seem to understand is that it takes a lot of time and money to do the location studies, environmental studies, public (both citizen and local governmental) meetings, legal paperwork, right-of-way acquisition, and utility relocation just to get big construction projects started. And then there's the construction itself, with heavy equipment movement & staging, workforce mobilization, materials, maintenance of traffic, and everything else that enables the construction to occur.
"Moving people out of the city" also isn't a realistic option, as all you're really doing there is shifting the traffic burden to wherever they relocate to...often locations that don't have the infrastructure to handle the influx, so you're right back in the same boat.
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 08, 2019, 07:10:00 PM
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 08, 2019, 06:11:59 PM
Quote from: Cemajr on August 16, 2019, 06:58:31 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 25, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
Also, future NCDOT plans of I-77 south of Uptown to the South Carolina border call for four express lanes with addition to the six existing travel lanes; but that is years out from now.
I can't wait for that one to finally begin construction. I absolutely HATE driving that stretch of 77 pretty much during any part of the day except on weekends. The NCDOT design also calls for a total reconstruction of the outdated interchange at the John Belk Frwy (I-277) and I-77.
This DOT takes FOREVER to widen and plan stuff. Unless people move out of the city maybe traffic congestion wouldn't be as high. But I agree. I-77 sucks. I-85 too.
Funding shortfalls have caused the delays in projects all around the state. It's not like they're doing nothing though. I-85 was just widened from 4 to 8 lanes north of Charlotte, I-485 Express Lanes are under construction, the I-77 Express Lanes were recently completed, the Monroe Expressway opened last year, major improvements to the northern part of US-77 converted it into a "Jersey Freeway" where you have private driveway connections and RIROs, but no crossroads and urban interchanges. A free-flowing arterial essentially.
More projects are funded to widen I-85 from 6 to 8 lanes south (west) of Charlotte, add Express Lanes to I-77 to South Carolina as mentioned, and an overhaul of the I-77 / I-85 interchange IIRC.
It's not just NCDOT though that takes "FOREVER". Pretty much all DOTs are this way, and for the record, NCDOT seems to be farther ahead than my state's DOT, though they are catching up as of recently.
They should make the entire I-77 / I-85 interchange to a four level stack. Unless they convert it to this. The website claims it will not be reconfigured, but it will be really needed in the future. Lots of weaving.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1210A_Report_2014.pdf
Scroll down to page 33 and see the complete redesign.
Quote from: froggie on September 08, 2019, 08:38:18 PM
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 08, 2019, 06:11:59 PM
Quote from: Cemajr on August 16, 2019, 06:58:31 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on July 25, 2019, 09:33:23 AM
Also, future NCDOT plans of I-77 south of Uptown to the South Carolina border call for four express lanes with addition to the six existing travel lanes; but that is years out from now.
I can't wait for that one to finally begin construction. I absolutely HATE driving that stretch of 77 pretty much during any part of the day except on weekends. The NCDOT design also calls for a total reconstruction of the outdated interchange at the John Belk Frwy (I-277) and I-77.
This DOT takes FOREVER to widen and plan stuff. Unless people move out of the city maybe traffic congestion wouldn't be as high. But I agree. I-77 sucks. I-85 too.
What you don't seem to understand is that it takes a lot of time and money to do the location studies, environmental studies, public (both citizen and local governmental) meetings, legal paperwork, right-of-way acquisition, and utility relocation just to get big construction projects started. And then there's the construction itself, with heavy equipment movement & staging, workforce mobilization, materials, maintenance of traffic, and everything else that enables the construction to occur.
"Moving people out of the city" also isn't a realistic option, as all you're really doing there is shifting the traffic burden to wherever they relocate to...often locations that don't have the infrastructure to handle the influx, so you're right back in the same boat.
We have big areas that we can develop here in Greenville, NC. And look at the outer banks! Also undeveloped. I'm not sure if Charlotte is too crowded...
Wow I took a look at those 85/77 concepts that would be a dream to have that reconfigured.
Somewhat on topic, I asked on FB this the other day. Will there be access from **I-77 Express Lanes** to I-85 SB? I definitely identified where to access to I-85 NB but still have yet to see/find the other...
How bad is the traffic in Charlotte compared to other cities in North Carolina?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 09, 2019, 02:34:49 PM
How bad is the traffic in Charlotte compared to other cities in North Carolina?
Really bad.
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 09, 2019, 02:41:20 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 09, 2019, 02:34:49 PM
How bad is the traffic in Charlotte compared to other cities in North Carolina?
Really bad.
I agree with this but Raleigh I-40 takes a close second...
Quote from: jcarte29 on September 09, 2019, 03:17:13 PM
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 09, 2019, 02:41:20 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 09, 2019, 02:34:49 PM
How bad is the traffic in Charlotte compared to other cities in North Carolina?
Really bad.
I agree with this but Raleigh I-40 takes a close second...
They are going to fix that hopefully soon. Here's some maps of the proposals
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1205A_Report_2016.pdf
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1005A_Report_2015.pdf
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 09, 2019, 09:24:02 PM
Quote from: jcarte29 on September 09, 2019, 03:17:13 PM
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 09, 2019, 02:41:20 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 09, 2019, 02:34:49 PM
How bad is the traffic in Charlotte compared to other cities in North Carolina?
Really bad.
I agree with this but Raleigh I-40 takes a close second...
They are going to fix that hopefully soon. Here's some maps of the proposals
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1205A_Report_2016.pdf
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_1005A_Report_2015.pdf
Unfunded projects. Managed lanes along w/ an additional general purpose lane each way is ideal, but a long ways away.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4017547,-80.6983075,3a,75y,55.74h,79.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZUdpXrct-ZVgtXz7A7lSHg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
They got space to put another lane here. Maybe in the future there will be some managed lanes?
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 09, 2019, 10:23:09 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4017547,-80.6983075,3a,75y,55.74h,79.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZUdpXrct-ZVgtXz7A7lSHg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
They got space to put another lane here. Maybe in the future there will be some managed lanes?
Just don't hire Cintra for the project!
Quote from: jcarte29 on September 09, 2019, 11:21:12 PM
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 09, 2019, 10:23:09 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4017547,-80.6983075,3a,75y,55.74h,79.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZUdpXrct-ZVgtXz7A7lSHg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
They got space to put another lane here. Maybe in the future there will be some managed lanes?
Just don't hire Cintra for the project!
Or any private company for that matter. Same mistake made here in Virginia with I-95 and I-495.
I don't think the Beltway HO/T Lanes project was that big of an issue. I-95/395, on the other hand...
Quote from: froggie on September 10, 2019, 09:57:33 AM
I don't think the Beltway HO/T Lanes project was that big of an issue. I-95/395, on the other hand...
I would agree that the I-495 project was okay, but not the I-95 / I-395 portion.
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 09, 2019, 10:23:09 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4017547,-80.6983075,3a,75y,55.74h,79.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZUdpXrct-ZVgtXz7A7lSHg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
They got space to put another lane here. Maybe in the future there will be some managed lanes?
I-85 doesn't really need more lanes in that area. 85 is pretty good for the most part through Charlotte. It's 77 between Uptown and the SC line that's the biggest (and most costly) issue that needs to be fixed.
There's a proposal that it would say it would be get 5-2-2-5.
The speed limit on I-485 between the western NC-27 interchange and US-74 in Matthews will be reduced to 65mph.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-09-19-charlotte-speed-limit-reduction.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-09-19-charlotte-speed-limit-reduction.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on September 19, 2019, 03:03:54 PM
The speed limit on I-485 between the western NC-27 interchange and US-74 in Matthews will be reduced to 65mph.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-09-19-charlotte-speed-limit-reduction.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-09-19-charlotte-speed-limit-reduction.aspx)
Yes, because reducing the speed limit will definitely slow drivers down and decrease accident rates... I highly doubt anything will change.
The design speed is 70 mph, the speed limit should reflect this, and that's what drivers will do no matter what's posted.
I feel like this is the start to a new trend... first I-485 has half of the highway reduced to 65 mph... next the remainder will be reduced to 65 mph... then I-540 around Raleigh will be lowered to 65 mph, and so on.
Quote from: LM117 on September 19, 2019, 03:03:54 PM
The speed limit on I-485 between the western NC-27 interchange and US-74 in Matthews will be reduced to 65mph.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-09-19-charlotte-speed-limit-reduction.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-09-19-charlotte-speed-limit-reduction.aspx)
Not sure if i really like that idea, but I guess reducing the speed limit to 65 (especially in high AADT highways) would be fine.
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 19, 2019, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: LM117 on September 19, 2019, 03:03:54 PM
The speed limit on I-485 between the western NC-27 interchange and US-74 in Matthews will be reduced to 65mph.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-09-19-charlotte-speed-limit-reduction.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-09-19-charlotte-speed-limit-reduction.aspx)
Not sure if i really like that idea, but I guess reducing the speed limit to 65 (especially in high AADT highways) would be fine.
The highway may have a high AADT, but it was constructed as a rural freeway and still has a rural freeway design, spaced out interchanges, large curve radius, 70 mph design speed, etc... it should still be reflected in the posted the speed limit, which is currently 70 mph and should remain 70 mph.
If you use AADT as a standard, then you'd have to lower a lot of 70 - 75 mph highways across the country to 65 mph.
And again, ultimately, will this slow people down? Will be people all a sudden go from 70 - 75 mph to 65 - 70 mph? Doubt it.
Is not the class clockwise direction coming into a work zone.
The rationale at the time of increasing the speed limit is that internal studies showed average drivers going above 70 throughout the loop. I personally doubt I'll slow down any on that stretch. I'm a little surprised they didn't extend this to Exit 57 - NC 16. That'd cover the whole remaining four lane section and I always felt the mile 51-57 zone is where I saw the most crashes. Maybe they're planning on that being cut to construction soon anyway.
I doubt reducing the speed limit to 65 will make much difference. Does anyone really obey the posted speed limit? Also: will law enforcement also beef up on cracking down on speeders?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on September 20, 2019, 01:49:49 PM
I doubt reducing the speed limit to 65 will make much difference. Does anyone really obey the posted speed limit? Also: will law enforcement also beef up on cracking down on speeders?
Probably not. When I drive on I-40 between Raleigh and Durham, I think the speed limit is 65, but you have to do 75 if you don't want to be flattened.
Quote from: TimQuiQui on September 20, 2019, 12:22:35 AM
The rationale at the time of increasing the speed limit is that internal studies showed average drivers going above 70 throughout the loop. I personally doubt I'll slow down any on that stretch. I'm a little surprised they didn't extend this to Exit 57 - NC 16. That'd cover the whole remaining four lane section and I always felt the mile 51-57 zone is where I saw the most crashes. Maybe they're planning on that being cut to construction soon anyway.
They did. Exit 57 lies between US 74 in Matthews and the NC 27/I-485 Interchange in West Charlotte.
whats annoying about that is the speed limit was raised from 65 to 70 on all of I-485 once the loop was finished. now they're dropping it back down? Everyone is going to continue doing 90 anyway.
Quote from: fillup420 on September 22, 2019, 11:52:03 AM
whats annoying about that is the speed limit was raised from 65 to 70 on all of I-485 once the loop was finished. now they're dropping it back down? Everyone is going to continue doing 90 anyway.
Yeah, they did a bad idea. I-77 in Charlotte and I-40 between Durham and Raleigh are fine 65, but not I-485. All of I-485 should stay 70.
If you look back in 2015, NCDOT raised most of their freeways to 70 mph.
Drove up I-77 north today and passed the section of new express lanes that have opened. I must admit that it looks really good now that (part of) it is done
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 23, 2019, 04:58:11 PM
If you look back in 2015, NCDOT raised most of their freeways to 70 mph.
It's funny - it seems most of the beltways around urban areas are 70 mph, yet the mainlines in rural areas still maintain 65 mph...
Quote from: LM117 on September 19, 2019, 03:03:54 PM
The speed limit on I-485 between the western NC-27 interchange and US-74 in Matthews will be reduced to 65mph.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-09-19-charlotte-speed-limit-reduction.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-09-19-charlotte-speed-limit-reduction.aspx)
Turns out NCDOT jumped the gun. The speed limit will remain 70mph.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/traffic/article235427247.html#storylink=mainstage_card5 (https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/traffic/article235427247.html#storylink=mainstage_card5)
^
Certainly not complaining, but can this state stay consistent on anything? :spin:
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 25, 2019, 09:06:03 PM
^
Certainly not complaining, but can this state stay consistent on anything? :spin:
The article mentions significant traffic volume increases since the last leg of the loop was finished. What it doesn't mention is that since that time, nearly all of I-77 within the loop has had some form of nonstop construction. Whether it be the toll lanes north of 277 Brookshire or just general resurfacing south of there. It hasn't stopped since 2015/2016 timeframe. And a significant number of motorists who want to avoid 77 are now regularly using 485, and I'm thinking even if it's a little out of the way.
As for I-85 through traffic, it really hasn't been affected as much, mostly because it has had sufficient capacity ever since they finished a lot of the widening projects in Cabarrus. The only significant slowdowns it seems to encounter are in Gaston, and those will likely be addressed once the 485 work from Ballentyne to Matthews is completed.
Also, I really wish they would do something about the 485 merge onto 85 south near the airport! And why they built the Sam Wilson Rd bridge over 85 *with* shoulder piers, thus making adding more lanes impossible w/o rebuilding this bridge, is beyond me!
Quote from: wriddle082 on September 27, 2019, 09:55:22 AM
Also, I really wish they would do something about the 485 merge onto 85 south near the airport!
Agreed. I usually take I-85 straight thru, though I decided to try out the new
(er - ~2015) bypass one trip heading southbound. It's a nice 8-lane freeway, and all 70 mph, but at the end, I sat at the interchange of I-485 / I-85 South for at least 20 minutes barely moving, and that was just on the ramp. After getting onto I-85, it was stop and go all the way to the US-321 / I-85 split. Finally got up to speed at that point, and into South Carolina.
NCDOT has plans to expand this segment to 8-lanes, but like you said, no planned improvements for the I-485 / I-85 South interchange.
Quote from: fillup420 on September 24, 2019, 06:04:49 PM
Drove up I-77 north today and passed the section of new express lanes that have opened. I must admit that it looks really good now that (part of) it is done
Speaking of, I haven't received any updates from I-77 Mobility Partners (they send through email subscription monthly and quarterly updates) in over 2 months. Input is welcome here, but I think we are within a month of the "required" completion (It was supposed to be January 1, 2019) before they face 10k/day fines!
I think that I-95 is odd the way it is only 70 from Kenly and the Fayetteville Bypass. The rest is only 65 even south of Fayetteville to the SC Line where the exits are spaced enough apart unlike from Eastover to Kenly (the oldest part of the route built in the late 50's I think) where ramps are almost every mile similar to I-95 in CT.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2019, 11:50:35 PM
I think that I-95 is odd the way it is only 70 from Kenly and the Fayetteville Bypass. The rest is only 65 even south of Fayetteville to the SC Line where the exits are spaced enough apart unlike from Eastover to Kenly (the oldest part of the route built in the late 50's I think) where ramps are almost every mile similar to I-95 in CT.
Once the 50s portions get reconstructed to 8-lanes (which begins next year), that stretch could easily be posted at 70 mph. The design speed is 70 mph, it can handle it. If I-485 and I-540 beltways in urban metro areas can be 70 mph, then a rural stretch can be 70 mph.
Quite frankly, all of I-95 thru North Carolina could be 70 mph. It's not like everybody is already going 80 mph.
And as for 50s portions, and 65 mph, look at I-95 around Emporia, VA. Lower vertical clearances, 20-30 ft median
(heavily protected by guardrail though), and bridges that look like they're going to collapse. It was built in 1958 and is posted at 70 mph, an increase from 65 mph when the state limit was raised, even that part was eligible. Granted though, there's way fewer exits, though the interchanges that do exist are extremely substandard, especially the narrow cloverleaf with US-58.
US-64 around Nashville, NC is posted at 70 mph, despite that section being constructed in the early 60s, having substandard bridges with no shoulder, lower clearance bridges, and again, bridges that look like they're about to collapse. It lowers to 65 mph once past I-95 heading east, but that's due to the Rocky Mount area and closely spaced exits - yet even then the study to upgrade US-64 to I-87 evaluated raising the speed limit to a uniform 70 mph thru there by correcting geometrical issues.
However with VA and 70 around Emporia for ole 95, it's because some engineers say go for it and the others ((like in NC) say motorists need a buffer for safety.
Heck go to Texas and they have five lane arterials posted at 75 mph where many states would question signing it over 55.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 01, 2019, 08:24:38 PM
However with VA and 70 around Emporia for ole 95, it's because some engineers say go for it and the others ((like in NC) say motorists need a buffer for safety.
But then there's also that segment of US-64 around Nashville that's just as aged that's posted at 70 mph.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 01, 2019, 08:24:38 PM
Heck go to Texas and they have five lane arterials posted at 75 mph where many states would question signing it over 55.
Texas is one of my favorite states to drive in - mostly because you're always doing at least 70 - 75mph outside of urban areas, no matter what type of road. And even better - there's no urge to speed because the speed limit is an appropriate cap, unlike that 55 mph in the other state that most people do around 60 - 65 mph already.
Quote from: sprjus4 on October 01, 2019, 09:02:27 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 01, 2019, 08:24:38 PM
However with VA and 70 around Emporia for ole 95, it's because some engineers say go for it and the others ((like in NC) say motorists need a buffer for safety.
But then there's also that segment of US-64 around Nashville that's just as aged that's posted at 70 mph.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 01, 2019, 08:24:38 PM
Heck go to Texas and they have five lane arterials posted at 75 mph where many states would question signing it over 55.
Texas is one of my favorite states to drive in - mostly because you're always doing at least 70 - 75mph outside of urban areas, no matter what type of road. And even better - there's no urge to speed because the speed limit is an appropriate cap, unlike that 55 mph in the other state that most people do around 60 - 65 mph already.
Can we get this thread back to Charlotte, NC? I know it grew legs talking about 70 mph on I-485, but the rest of this belongs in Mid-Atlantic forum.
I asked earlier about I-77 EL, does anyone have any updates? We are getting close to hard deadline of $10k a day fines if they don't speed it up (grace has already been extended from Jan 2019 to Now next month...)
Quote from: jcarte29 on October 01, 2019, 09:27:19 PM
Can we get this thread back to Charlotte, NC? I know it grew legs talking about 70 mph on I-485, but the rest of this belongs in Mid-Atlantic forum.
There were a mere 2 posts that veered off the main topic, it's not like it was an entire page.
I-277 lane and ramp closures this week.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-10-07-uptown-charlotte-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-10-07-uptown-charlotte-closures.aspx)
Cintra is requesting a deadline extension on the I-77 toll lane project.
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/cintra-requests-i-77-construction-extension-faces-fines-if-not-done-by-end-of-month/995706361 (https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/cintra-requests-i-77-construction-extension-faces-fines-if-not-done-by-end-of-month/995706361)
Ugh. Cintra: Bilker of the Public. How many facilities have we turned over to them so they can squeeze every penny out of the travelling public they can?
Quote from: LM117 on October 10, 2019, 07:47:44 PM
Cintra is requesting a deadline extension on the I-77 toll lane project.
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/cintra-requests-i-77-construction-extension-faces-fines-if-not-done-by-end-of-month/995706361 (https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/cintra-requests-i-77-construction-extension-faces-fines-if-not-done-by-end-of-month/995706361)
I'd say no, let them piggy up.
They're already 277 days behind the original deadline, and with the amount of screw ups they've already had, the millions of dollars they've had to pay up, they don't deserve more leeway.
Quote from: LM117 on October 10, 2019, 07:47:44 PM
Cintra is requesting a deadline extension on the I-77 toll lane project.
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/cintra-requests-i-77-construction-extension-faces-fines-if-not-done-by-end-of-month/995706361 (https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/cintra-requests-i-77-construction-extension-faces-fines-if-not-done-by-end-of-month/995706361)
So does that include paving (yet again) the various traffic lanes? We went through there last week and while the express lanes appear to have a final coat of asphalt, the main lanes were pretty rough. Up here in the mountains of Virginia, the asphalt plants are nearing their winter shutdown; is that an issue around Charlotte?
Bruce in Blacksburg
The first CFI - Continuous Flow Intersection - in the state will be opening in West Charlotte Friday at NC 16/Mt. Holly-Huntersville, right by I-485 exit 16
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-10-14-charlotte-intersection-getting-innovative-pattern.aspx
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-10-17-interstate-resurfacing-continues.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-10-17-interstate-resurfacing-continues.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — Contractors with the N.C. Department of Transportation will be resurfacing lanes on Interstate 485 in north Charlotte Friday, as part of a $10.8 million contract awarded last fall.
The paving operations require temperatures at or above 60 degrees, so the work must take place during the day. One lane will be closed on the inner loop between mile markers 31 and 36. Traffic control will go in place after 9 a.m. and will be removed by 4 p.m.
Additional lane closures may continue this weekend and next week, as work advances and weather permits. Motorists are encouraged to pay attention when approaching the work zone, obey the posted speed limit, and allow extra time to reach their destinations safely.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-10-21-uptown-closures-continue.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-10-21-uptown-closures-continue.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — The series of closures needed for work on the $16.3 million N.C. Department of Transportation project to improve the roadway and 22 bridges along I-277 continues tonight.
The entrance ramp from the inner loop to I-77 South (Exit 1B) will be closed from 8 p.m. to 6 a.m. each night this week and continue over the weekend from 8 p.m. Friday until 6 a.m. Monday.
Also, the entrance ramp from South Church Street to the inner loop will be closed from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. each night through Monday morning, Oct. 28.
All the work is weather permitting and subject to change. Detour information will be online at DriveNC.gov under Mecklenburg County.
Drivers need to slow down and use extra caution while going through the work zones and the detour routes. They also need to pay extra attention to the road for their own safety, as well as any passengers, occupants of other vehicles and the construction crews in the area.
Quote from: TimQuiQui on October 16, 2019, 11:03:09 PM
The first CFI - Continuous Flow Intersection - in the state will be opening in West Charlotte Friday at NC 16/Mt. Holly-Huntersville, right by I-485 exit 16
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-10-14-charlotte-intersection-getting-innovative-pattern.aspx
I checked it out the other day. Looks like some drivers are confused and were still trying to turn left in the lanes that go straight.
Cintra is about to start paying fines!!! The I-77 Toll Lane construction deadline will NOT be extended!!!
https://www.wbtv.com/2019/10/30/nc-sen-natasha-marcus-says-ncdot-will-not-grant-extension-i-toll-lane-project-fines-expected/
Quote from: wriddle082 on October 30, 2019, 07:18:03 PM
Cintra is about to start paying fines!!! The I-77 Toll Lane construction deadline will NOT be extended!!!
https://www.wbtv.com/2019/10/30/nc-sen-natasha-marcus-says-ncdot-will-not-grant-extension-i-toll-lane-project-fines-expected/
About time. They've had some many screw ups construction wise, time to start paying up.
Quote from: wriddle082 on October 30, 2019, 07:18:03 PM
Cintra is about to start paying fines!!! The I-77 Toll Lane construction deadline will NOT be extended!!!
https://www.wbtv.com/2019/10/30/nc-sen-natasha-marcus-says-ncdot-will-not-grant-extension-i-toll-lane-project-fines-expected/
Very nice. They deserve those fines. There's still quite a bit of work to do on the part close to Uptown.
Related to Cintra, apparently they're apart of the P3 doing the I-66 lanes outside the beltway in Northern Virginia.
So Northern Virginia has both Transurban and Cintra ultimately.
More ramp closures on I-277 this week.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-04-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-04-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx)
Another press release regarding I-277.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-11-uptown-ramp-closures-continue.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-11-uptown-ramp-closures-continue.aspx)
Beginning tomorrow, construction work around Concord Mills will be suspended for the holidays.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-13-concord-mills-project-suspension.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-13-concord-mills-project-suspension.aspx)
NCDOT awarded a contract to rehabilitate pavement on I-485 between NC-51 and Idlewild Road. Completion set for November 15, 2020.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-14-east-meck-contract-award.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-14-east-meck-contract-award.aspx)
All I-77 toll lanes are now open.
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/all-sections-of-i-77-express-lanes-set-to-open-saturday-evening/1009340927 (https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/all-sections-of-i-77-express-lanes-set-to-open-saturday-evening/1009340927)
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-18-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-11-18-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — N.C. Department of Transportation contract crews have scheduled several closures this week as part of a $16.3 million project to improve the roadway and 22 bridges along I-277.
Starting tonight, crews will close the ramp from the inner loop to I-77 South (exit 1B), the on-ramp from I-77 North to U.S. 74 West (exit 9C) and the ramp from the inner loop to Freedom Drive (exit 1A). The closures will be in place from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m., through Monday morning, Nov. 25.
Also tonight, the ramp from South Boulevard to the outer loop will be closed, as will the ramp from the outer loop to Kenilworth and East 3rd Street (exit 2A). These closures will be in place from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. Tuesday.
Nightly closures are also set for the ramps from East Stonewall and East Fourth streets to the outer loop from Tuesday thru Sunday from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. the following day.
All the work is weather permitting and subject to change. Detour information will be online at DriveNC.gov under Mecklenburg County.
Drivers need to slow down and use extra caution while going through the work zones and the detour routes. They also need to pay extra attention to the road for their own safety, as well as any passengers, occupants of other vehicles and the construction crews in the area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9ZUW54F51E
Here is a timelapse video of the I-77 express lanes heading northbound from Charlotte.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-12-02-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-12-02-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — N.C. Department of Transportation contract crews are resuming several ramp closures this week on Interstate 277 to continue roadway and bridge improvements along the corridor.
Starting tonight, crews will close the ramp from I-77 North to U.S. 74 West (exit 9C), the ramp from the inner loop to I-77 South (exit 1B), and the ramp from the inner loop to Freedom Drive (exit 1A). The closures will be in place from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m., continuing each night until Friday morning.
Beginning Friday at 9 p.m., crews will close the ramp from the inner loop to Freedom Drive (exit 1A), the ramp from the inner loop to I-77 North (exit 1C), and the ramp from Church Street to the inner loop.
The ramps will reopen no later than 4:30 p.m. on Saturday, prior to that night's Atlantic Coast Conference football championship game at Bank of America Stadium. The ramps will close again from 9 a.m. Sunday until 6 a.m. Monday, Dec. 9.
All the work is weather permitting and subject to change. Detour information will be online at DriveNC.gov under Mecklenburg County.
Drivers need to slow down and use extra caution while going through the work zones and the detour routes. They also need to pay extra attention to the road for their own safety, as well as any passengers, occupants of other vehicles and the construction crews in the area.
More I-277 ramp closures this week.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-12-09-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-12-09-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx)
A little heads-up for those that frequent Concord Mills.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-12-27-concord-mills-mall-entrance-closure.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-12-27-concord-mills-mall-entrance-closure.aspx)
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-02-weekend-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-02-weekend-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — N.C. Department of Transportation contract crews will close several uptown ramps this weekend as part of a $16.3 million project to improve the roadway and 22 bridges along I-277.
The following ramps will be closed from 9 p.m. Friday until 6 a.m. Monday:
-the ramps from Church Street and South Boulevard to the inner loop
-the ramp from the inner loop to East Stonewall Street
-the ramp from the outer loop to Carson Boulevard
All the work is weather permitting and subject to change. Detour information will be online at DriveNC.gov under Mecklenburg County.
Drivers need to slow down and use extra caution while going through the work zones and the detour routes. They also need to pay extra attention to the road for their own safety, as well as any passengers, occupants of other vehicles and the construction crews in the area.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-09-uptown-ramp-weekend-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-09-uptown-ramp-weekend-closures.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — N.C. Department of Transportation contract crews are continuing their series of ramp closures as part of a $16.3 million project to improve the roadway and 22 bridges along I-277.
Beginning tonight at 9 p.m., crews will close the ramp from the outer loop to Carson Boulevard (exit 1D) until 6 a.m. Friday. Other ramps will be closed from 9 p.m. Friday until 6 a.m. Monday, Jan. 13:
-The ramp from the outer loop to Carson Boulevard;
-The ramp from the inner loop to Fourth Street (exit 2A);
-the ramp from Fourth Street to the inner loop;
-the ramp from the inner loop to South Boulevard (exit 1E); and
-the ramp from South Boulevard to the inner loop.
All the work is weather permitting and subject to change. Detour information will be online at DriveNC.gov under Mecklenburg County.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-13-uptown-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-13-uptown-closures.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — N.C. Department of Transportation contract crews have scheduled several ramp closures this week as part of a $16.3 million project to improve the roadway and 22 bridges along I-277, weather permitting.
Tonight and Tuesday night, crews will close the entrance and exit ramps at the South Boulevard interchange with the inner loop. The closures will be in place from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m.
On Wednesday night, the inner loop entrance and exit ramps at Fourth Street will be closed from 9 p.m. until 6 a.m. Thursday.
Additional ramp closures will be in place over the weekend from 9 p.m. Friday until 6 a.m. Monday, Jan. 20:
-the ramp from the outer loop to Carson Boulevard
-the exit and entrance ramps where Fourth Street meets the inner loop; and
-the ramp from the inner loop to East Stonewall Street
All the work is weather permitting and subject to change. Detour information will be online at DriveNC.gov under Mecklenburg County.
NCDOT is holding two public hearings next week to discuss planned improvements to US-74 between Idlewild Road and I-485.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-23-independence-public-hearings.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-23-independence-public-hearings.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on January 23, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
NCDOT is holding two public hearings next week to discuss planned improvements to US-74 between Idlewild Road and I-485.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-23-independence-public-hearings.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-01-23-independence-public-hearings.aspx)
IMHO that section of US 74 needs to be upgraded to a full expressway, express lanes or no.
The failure to convert Independence Boulevard to a controlled access facility between Uptown and I-485 is one of the biggest missed opportunities in North Carolina. US 74 between Asheville and Wilmington is NC's missing interstate. I'm tired of people telling me it couldn't be done, and the express lanes will help mitigate this failure. Independence Blvd is a Frankenstein of failed vision.
^ The project is not only adding express lanes, it's also converting the remainder of the roadway into a Jersey freeway, a 50 mph roadway without median crossovers, RIROs, and overpasses. It won't be a full controlled access roadway, but it will be a free-flowing Expressway. Still a major improvement overall, with the elimination of all signals.
Quote from: tjcreasy on January 23, 2020, 03:57:20 PM
US 74 between Asheville and Wilmington is NC's missing interstate.
I-485 provides a 70 mph interstate highway bypass throughout the area, such cross-state interstate would not include US-74 from Downtown Charlotte to I-485.
With the dearth of radical highways to the due east, do you ever forsee Albermarle Rd getting the same Jersey Freeway treatment?
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 23, 2020, 08:21:09 PM
^ The project is not only adding express lanes, it's also converting the remainder of the roadway into a Jersey freeway, a 50 mph roadway without median crossovers, RIROs, and overpasses. It won't be a full controlled access roadway, but it will be a free-flowing Expressway. Still a major improvement overall, with the elimination of all signals.
Quote from: tjcreasy on January 23, 2020, 03:57:20 PM
US 74 between Asheville and Wilmington is NC's missing interstate.
I-485 provides a 70 mph interstate highway bypass throughout the area, such cross-state interstate would not include US-74 from Downtown Charlotte to I-485.
Ideally the Interstate could begin at I-26 in Columbus and follow US 74 from there, running concurrent with I-85 and then turning along NC 16 and I-277 through downtown Charlotte. Routing it around I-485 wouldn't be too bad, though, especially since that's the direction the flyovers point at the I-485/US 74 junction to the east.
This would also require upgrading NC 16 at least between I-85 and the end of the Brookshire Freeway, though ideally all of NC 16 could be upgraded out to the existing freeway section outside I-485. Has this been recently studied? I'm surprised that I can't find anything about it since it's a pretty big missing link between downtown and I-85 to the west.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 23, 2020, 08:21:09 PM
^ The project is not only adding express lanes, it's also converting the remainder of the roadway into a Jersey freeway, a 50 mph roadway without median crossovers, RIROs, and overpasses. It won't be a full controlled access roadway, but it will be a free-flowing Expressway. Still a major improvement overall, with the elimination of all signals.
Quote from: tjcreasy on January 23, 2020, 03:57:20 PM
US 74 between Asheville and Wilmington is NC's missing interstate.
I-485 provides a 70 mph interstate highway bypass throughout the area, such cross-state interstate would not include US-74 from Downtown Charlotte to I-485.
I concur that the Independence BL upgrades are a huge improvement. It is still IMHO a huge missed opportunity. Independence BL is/was Charlotte's missing freeway. When the Silver Line is built and southeast Charlotte densifies, I believe planners will wish this opportunity was handled differently. This newly improved road will still have a ton of curb cuts and sidewalks which will introduce/retain many unnecessary safety hazards. A 4 to 6 lane Independence Blvd Freeway with frontage roads would have been more appropriate.
Roadsguy I have spoken with transportation planners in Charlotte. They are currently evaluating several alternatives for Brookshire some include upgrading Brookshire to a freeway between I-277 and I-485.
The future Asheville to Wilmington freeway would likely just be routed with I-485 in Charlotte. Too much development has been allowed around US74 between Briar Creek Rd and the Matthews/Charlotte city limits boundary. It will be too cost prohibitive to buy up the properties now. The only part they got right was between Uptown and Briar Creek several decades ago. I have noticed how in Matthews the businesses all have significant setback from the roadway to allow a freeway upgrade but it's that part between Briar Creek and the Matthews line that looks like it won't be able to ever be upgraded to a full freeway. I agree that NC missed the opportunity to buy up and reserve the property for possibly upgrading Independence to a full freeway years ago.
Quote from: Mileage Mike on January 26, 2020, 11:13:48 PM
The future Asheville to Wilmington freeway would likely just be routed with I-485 in Charlotte. Too much development has been allowed around US74 between Briar Creek Rd and the Matthews/Charlotte city limits boundary. It will be too cost prohibitive to buy up the properties now. The only part they got right was between Uptown and Briar Creek several decades ago. I have noticed how in Matthews the businesses all have significant setback from the roadway to allow a freeway upgrade but it's that part between Briar Creek and the Matthews line that looks like it won't be able to ever be upgraded to a full freeway. I agree that NC missed the opportunity to buy up and reserve the property for possibly upgrading Independence to a full freeway years ago.
They'd probably only need to buy all the businesses on one side, but it would still be prohibitively expensive, though I can't imagine it would be much
more prohibitively expensive decades from now if traffic counts rise to the point where they decide a freeway upgrade is necessary.
Why would they route an Asheville-Wilmington freeway through central Charlotte? Central Charlotte is overwhelmed enough with through traffic. It doesn't need any more. I agree that a I-485 routing would make the most sense.
An Asheville to Wilmington Interstate routed through central Charlotte will never happen due to NCDOT's/CDOT's development of Independence Boulevard. I acknowledge this. Assuming I-3X is ever comes into fruition it's routing through central Charlotte would have had very little effect on through traffic as through traffic would use I-485 anyway during peak traffic periods. Furthermore they aren't any major generators of new through traffic coming from both directions once the interstate standard upgrades of US 74 are complete both east and west of Charlotte. Primary interstates would be routed to bypasses/beltways if through traffic motorists were incapable of choosing the best route.
At some point in the future the NC16-Brookshire Blvd/I-85 interchange will be upgraded, potentially to facilitate an extension of the freeway portion of NC-16. The US74-Independence Blvd/I-277 interchange will also be modernized. I'm looking forward to seeing Independence/Brookshire becoming an improved core route regardless of designation.
I agree with everyone the I-485 is more than adequate though I will caution that I-485 will be hell on Earth within 20 years if currently development trends hold.
Georgia has special shield designations for State routes that are regionally important. I hope NC follows their path in doing this.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-05-mecklenburg-interstate-contract-award.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-05-mecklenburg-interstate-contract-award.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — The N.C. Department of Transportation has awarded a $10.4 million contract to improve approximately 1.3 miles of I-77 south of uptown Charlotte between the Morehead Street and Brookshire Freeway exits.
The contract calls for milling and paving, concrete pavement repairs, and installing pavement markings and snowplowable markers.
The project also includes improvements to the northbound and southbound bridges over Morehead Street, Irwin Creek/Stewart Creek Greenway and Fourth/Trade Streets.
Contract crews will clean and paint the bridges, replace bridge joints, perform repairs to the concrete deck, and add a new deck overlay to smooth the ride for motorists.
Work can start as early as March 2 and is scheduled for completion in August 2021.
Quote from: LM117 on February 05, 2020, 01:30:50 PM
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-05-mecklenburg-interstate-contract-award.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-05-mecklenburg-interstate-contract-award.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — The N.C. Department of Transportation has awarded a $10.4 million contract to improve approximately 1.3 miles of I-77 south of uptown Charlotte between the Morehead Street and Brookshire Freeway exits.
The contract calls for milling and paving, concrete pavement repairs, and installing pavement markings and snowplowable markers.
The project also includes improvements to the northbound and southbound bridges over Morehead Street, Irwin Creek/Stewart Creek Greenway and Fourth/Trade Streets.
Contract crews will clean and paint the bridges, replace bridge joints, perform repairs to the concrete deck, and add a new deck overlay to smooth the ride for motorists.
Work can start as early as March 2 and is scheduled for completion in August 2021.
Is there something in the North Carolina Code that says I-77 must be perpetually under construction? In all the years I have gone up and down that highway, I can't think of any time when some section didn't have orange barrels, a reduced lane, or some other project going on.
Quote from: VTGoose on February 06, 2020, 09:22:19 AM
Quote from: LM117 on February 05, 2020, 01:30:50 PM
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-05-mecklenburg-interstate-contract-award.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-05-mecklenburg-interstate-contract-award.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — The N.C. Department of Transportation has awarded a $10.4 million contract to improve approximately 1.3 miles of I-77 south of uptown Charlotte between the Morehead Street and Brookshire Freeway exits.
The contract calls for milling and paving, concrete pavement repairs, and installing pavement markings and snowplowable markers.
The project also includes improvements to the northbound and southbound bridges over Morehead Street, Irwin Creek/Stewart Creek Greenway and Fourth/Trade Streets.
Contract crews will clean and paint the bridges, replace bridge joints, perform repairs to the concrete deck, and add a new deck overlay to smooth the ride for motorists.
Work can start as early as March 2 and is scheduled for completion in August 2021.
Is there something in the North Carolina Code that says I-77 must be perpetually under construction? In all the years I have gone up and down that highway, I can't think of any time when some section didn't have orange barrels, a reduced lane, or some other project going on.
Haha agreed. It won't be ending anytime soon either as they're still cleaning up the area around the tolls lanes and later in the decade they'll be rebuilding the entire highway south of Uptown.
I-277 ramp closures continue this week.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-10-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-10-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on February 10, 2020, 11:51:14 AM
I-277 ramp closures continue this week.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-10-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-10-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx)
Another round coming up...
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-24-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-02-24-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx)
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-03-02-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-03-02-uptown-ramp-closures.aspx)
Charlotte Needs another Main Interstate Route and 2 More Auxiliary Routes.
Charlotte missed that boat with the failure to convert Independence Boulevard to an interstate. The only remaining opportunity will be the potential routing of a Asheville to Wilmington interstate via I-485.
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 10, 2020, 09:30:35 AM
Charlotte Needs another Main Interstate Route and 2 More Auxiliary Routes.
This isn't Atlanta. Any other interstate would feel like Raleigh getting I-87, in other words, out of place. Where would the auxiliary routes go? 485 is already a 65 mile loop. 85 and 77 are as vital through routes as any in NC...
^ An I-3x along the US 74 corridor wouldn't be out of place.
Going more fictional:
1) Upgrade Billy Graham Parkway to a 3di.
2) New spur off the Billy Graham Parkway 3di into the airport.
3) New route of I-85 near Concord to I-485 near the NC 27 interchange.
Quote from: Revive 755 on March 10, 2020, 10:26:40 PM
^ An I-3x along the US 74 corridor wouldn't be out of place.
Going more fictional:
1) Upgrade Billy Graham Parkway to a 3di.
2) New spur off the Billy Graham Parkway 3di into the airport.
3) New route of I-85 near Concord to I-485 near the NC 27 interchange.
Adding on to that, I feel that if the Monroe Bypass was designated as a spur of I-85, (via 485) for one reason or another, it would see more use.
Quote from: jcarte29 on March 10, 2020, 10:16:01 PM
Quote from: AcE_Wolf_287 on March 10, 2020, 09:30:35 AM
Charlotte Needs another Main Interstate Route and 2 More Auxiliary Routes.
This isn't Atlanta. Any other interstate would feel like Raleigh getting I-87, in other words, out of place. Where would the auxiliary routes go? 485 is already a 65 mile loop. 85 and 77 are as vital through routes as any in NC...
I-36 or I-38 would be along US 74 and a another auxilary would be to crazy. maybe an outer loop for the metro area
i-877 would intersect
I-77/US 21 in Rock Hill, SC
I-85/US 29/US 74/US 321 in Gastonia
I-77/US 21 in Huntsville
I-85/US 29 in Concord
US 74/US 601 in Monroe
As far as an outer loop, NC150 is scheduled for major improvement between NC16 and I77. It will be 6 lanes with no cross traffic.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-03-16-uptown-charlotte-ramp-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-03-16-uptown-charlotte-ramp-closures.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — N.C. Department of Transportation contract crews have scheduled several closures this week as part of a $16.3 million project to improve the roadway and 22 bridges along I-277.
Starting tonight, crews will close the ramps from East 5th Street to U.S. 74 East, from East 4th Street to the outer loop, and from the outer loop to U.S. 74 East. The closures will be in place from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. each night through Friday morning, March 20.
On Wednesday and Thursday nights, the ramp from U.S. 74 West to the outer loop will be closed from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. The same ramp will close this weekend from 9 p.m. Friday until 6 a.m. Monday, March 23.
All the work is weather permitting and subject to change. Detour information will be online at DriveNC.gov under Mecklenburg County.
Drivers need to slow down and use extra caution while going through the work zones and the detour routes. They also need to pay extra attention to the road for their own safety, as well as any passengers, occupants of other vehicles and the construction crews in the area.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-03-27-weekend-striping-work.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-03-27-weekend-striping-work.aspx)
QuoteCHARLOTTE — N.C. Department of Transportation contract crews on Sunday will temporarily close lanes on Interstate 77 at the West Boulevard overpass as part of a $12.8 million improvement of the highway between exits 5 and 10.
The contract calls for milling and paving, repairing concrete, and installing pavement markings and snow plowable markers along the five-mile stretch.
The project also includes improvements to the northbound and southbound bridges at West Boulevard, and the bridge exiting I-77 South to West Boulevard. Crews will paint the bridges, replace bridge joints, perform repairs to the concrete deck and add a new deck overlay to smooth the ride for motorists.
Weather permitting, the closures will start at 7 a.m. Sunday so crews can complete lane striping and install pavement markers. Two of three lanes may be closed in each direction throughout the day. If work is not completed, closures will be scheduled for another day.
Drivers are encouraged to slow down when approaching the work zone and to pay extra attention to construction.
Upcoming lane closures on Concord Mills Blvd next week due to the flyover-bridge project.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-08-14-concord-mills-boulevard-closure.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-08-14-concord-mills-boulevard-closure.aspx)
I'm genuinely curious, but how far away have you seen Charlotte show up as a control city on a distance sign? The furthest I think I've seen Charlotte was on a sign on I-81 near the I-77 interchange.
Quote from: Third Strike on August 29, 2020, 10:47:59 AM
I'm genuinely curious, but how far away have you seen Charlotte show up as a control city on a distance sign? The furthest I think I've seen Charlotte was on a sign on I-81 near the I-77 interchange.
I-64 / I-77 split in Beckley, WV has a sign that lists Richmond (VA) and Charlotte as long distance destinations. A little over 200 miles to Charlotte, and 260 miles to Richmond. The main control city for I-77 South is Bluefield though.
https://goo.gl/maps/P8FXrxh9pBZiK2DWA
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 29, 2020, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Third Strike on August 29, 2020, 10:47:59 AM
I'm genuinely curious, but how far away have you seen Charlotte show up as a control city on a distance sign? The furthest I think I've seen Charlotte was on a sign on I-81 near the I-77 interchange.
I-64 / I-77 split in Beckley, WV has a sign that lists Richmond (VA) and Charlotte as long distance destinations. A little over 200 miles to Charlotte, and 260 miles to Richmond. The main control city for I-77 South is Bluefield though.
https://goo.gl/maps/P8FXrxh9pBZiK2DWA
Those shields have seen better days.
Quote from: LM117 on August 14, 2020, 06:59:16 PM
Upcoming lane closures on Concord Mills Blvd next week due to the flyover-bridge project.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-08-14-concord-mills-boulevard-closure.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-08-14-concord-mills-boulevard-closure.aspx)
More lane closures this week.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-08-31-concord-mills-lane-closures.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2020/2020-08-31-concord-mills-lane-closures.aspx)
Beginning February 8, extended vehicles will be allowed to use the I-77 toll lanes.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-02-05-extended-vehicles-use-i-77-express-lanes.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-02-05-extended-vehicles-use-i-77-express-lanes.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on February 05, 2021, 12:27:31 PM
Beginning February 8, extended vehicles will be allowed to use the I-77 toll lanes.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-02-05-extended-vehicles-use-i-77-express-lanes.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-02-05-extended-vehicles-use-i-77-express-lanes.aspx)
I moved away from the CLT area a couple years before they opened and only used them once. How are the express lanes doing on a regular basis now? I remember the fights about whether or not to build them.
Quote from: ahj2000 on February 06, 2021, 10:20:30 AM
Quote from: LM117 on February 05, 2021, 12:27:31 PM
Beginning February 8, extended vehicles will be allowed to use the I-77 toll lanes.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-02-05-extended-vehicles-use-i-77-express-lanes.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-02-05-extended-vehicles-use-i-77-express-lanes.aspx)
I moved away from the CLT area a couple years before they opened and only used them once. How are the express lanes doing on a regular basis now? I remember the fights about whether or not to build them.
The 'rona took a sledgehammer to the exact same problem that the Express Lanes were attempting to fix, with way more people working from home now ... Most of the time (when I'm on 77) the general lanes were pretty clear, so I don't use them all that often - I've only been able to use them to bypass major congestion once or twice so far.
Quote from: LM117 on August 14, 2019, 11:39:42 AM
The I-485 express lane project will begin soon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-15-charlotte-express-lanes-construction.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2019/2019-08-15-charlotte-express-lanes-construction.aspx)
So much for opening in late 2022. The opening date is expected to be delayed up to 2 years due to the project being way behind schedule.
https://www.wfae.org/business/2021-05-10/toll-lane-project-on-interstate-485-delayed (https://www.wfae.org/business/2021-05-10/toll-lane-project-on-interstate-485-delayed)
Quote from: LM117 on May 11, 2021, 12:25:44 PM
So much for opening in late 2022. The opening date is expected to be delayed up to 2 years due to the project being way behind schedule.
https://www.wfae.org/business/2021-05-10/toll-lane-project-on-interstate-485-delayed (https://www.wfae.org/business/2021-05-10/toll-lane-project-on-interstate-485-delayed)
I mention this in reddit, but nobody is explaining why it is taking longer.
Quote from: ahj2000 on February 06, 2021, 10:20:30 AM
Quote from: LM117 on February 05, 2021, 12:27:31 PM
Beginning February 8, extended vehicles will be allowed to use the I-77 toll lanes.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-02-05-extended-vehicles-use-i-77-express-lanes.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-02-05-extended-vehicles-use-i-77-express-lanes.aspx)
I moved away from the CLT area a couple years before they opened and only used them once. How are the express lanes doing on a regular basis now? I remember the fights about whether or not to build them.
At least when I've been on I-77 they don't see much use, as another poster also said. Nobody wants to pay for them. At the very least they should've just kept the express lane down to one lane the whole way and added another general purpose lane, or made them HOV 2+, but I'd rather they just not have been added at all and we'd have more general purpose lanes instead.
I believe this is one of the solutions in which adding a lane isn't uncalled for in reducing traffic. It's >such< a massive tease being stuck in traffic and seeing those two useless lanes just sit there when traffic could be using them.
I-85 - Carries 80,000 - 150,000 AADT between I-485 and China Grove. Was originally 4 lanes and suffered significant congestion issues. Has been expanded to 8 general purpose lanes throughout (and before the "induced demand" advocates chime in, many parts were done 20-30 years ago and still have no problems) and now sees virtually no congestion.
I-77 - Carries 70,000 - 100,000 AADT between I-485 and Mooresville. Was originally 4 lanes and suffered significant congestion issues. Has been expanded to 2-4 HO/T lanes + 4 general purpose lanes. Still sees plenty of recurring congestion with underutilized toll lanes.
I think this says enough. I-77 should have been widened to 6-8 general purpose lanes up to Mooresville and left alone - traffic congestion would've gone down and the highway still would have had plenty of room to grow over the next 20+ years.
Now, it's my understanding they're planning a project to widen I-77 south of Downtown to 8 general purpose lanes + 4 HO/T lanes. In that case, I can understand the appropriateness for toll lanes at that point. A more urban environment, higher traffic volumes (150,000+ AADT), and still maximizing general purpose lanes (4 each way) before going to HO/T. But as for the previously completed north project, the lack of usage and still high congestion volumes shows that the project was bound to be a failure from the beginning. That was not an appropriate place for those lanes.
And I fear the same thing is going to happen here in Hampton Roads with the region's rapid HO/T lane expansion over the next 5 years, in areas they quite frankly should be general purpose lanes. But that's for another discussion.
Can't remember if I said it here or on another forum, but there needs to be legislation in North Carolina (thanks to this project) that a freeway must have three free general purpose travel lanes in each direction before toll lanes can be added, and a minimum of two toll lanes must be constructed in each direction. I'm not completely against toll lanes, but what they did to I-77 is a joke.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51176395888_6cf229a96f_o.jpg)
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on May 13, 2021, 08:39:30 AM
Can't remember if I said it here or on another forum, but there needs to be legislation in North Carolina (thanks to this project) that a freeway must have three free general purpose travel lanes in each direction before toll lanes can be added, and a minimum of two toll lanes must be constructed in each direction. I'm not completely against toll lanes, but what they did to I-77 is a joke.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51176395888_6cf229a96f_o.jpg)
Agreed. While HO/T lanes can be unpopular in general, if they're used in the right places and get usage, they at least have some level of effectiveness. I-77 was not that right place.
Legislation like that would be nice, but unfortunately could never see it passed. The standard for tolled express lanes in this country has lowered to now being an option for simply slapping a third lane each way. That's what Charlotte did in this northern portion, I believe a similar proposal is underway in Kansas City, and Hampton Roads is doing it.
Just a reminder that the express lanes being built on I-485 will be own and operated by NCDOT, not a third party like on I-77. This means that the costs to use will be lower because of a less important on profit and more of managing traffic.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on May 13, 2021, 10:59:14 AM
Just a reminder that the express lanes being built on I-485 will be own and operated by NCDOT, not a third party like on I-77. This means that the costs to use will be lower because of a less important on profit and more of managing traffic.
Along with being at least 3 general purpose lanes each way... though I believe a part of it will only have 2 each way... that should be expanded IMO to create a consistent 3+1 setup.
But again, in all honesty, I truly feel like 8 general purpose lanes would be a better solution. But what can you do.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 13, 2021, 11:11:12 AM
Along with being at least 3 general purpose lanes each way... though I believe a part of it will only have 2 each way... that should be expanded IMO to create a consistent 3+1 setup.
But again, in all honesty, I truly feel like 8 general purpose lanes would be a better solution. But what can you do.
So they are adding a general purpose lane between Providence and Rea Roads. The problem with adding more lanes that traffic usually is able to fill those lanes within' a few years as it encourages more people to take the route. The express lanes is to temper that issue as a flex route for those that are willing to pay or ride-share. Also, funding is another issue because infrastructure, like teacher pay, is never enough.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on May 13, 2021, 01:47:51 PMThe problem with adding more lanes that traffic usually is able to fill those lanes within' a few years as it encourages more people to take the route. The express lanes is to temper that issue as a flex route for those that are willing to pay or ride-share.
Already debunked this fallacy above using a real world example, in the Charlotte area in fact.
I'll add, I'm not necessarily saying induced demand is 100% a myth. It does apply in certain situations, particularly more condensed urban situations and very high traffic volumes that truly needs more than 4 or 5 GP lanes each way. This doesn't apply for I-485 or I-77.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 13, 2021, 12:49:05 AM
I-85 - Carries 80,000 - 150,000 AADT between I-485 and China Grove. Was originally 4 lanes and suffered significant congestion issues. Has been expanded to 8 general purpose lanes throughout (and before the "induced demand" advocates chime in, many parts were done 20-30 years ago and still have no problems) and now sees virtually no congestion.
I-77 - Carries 70,000 - 100,000 AADT between I-485 and Mooresville. Was originally 4 lanes and suffered significant congestion issues. Has been expanded to 2-4 HO/T lanes + 4 general purpose lanes. Still sees plenty of recurring congestion with underutilized toll lanes.
I think this says enough. I-77 should have been widened to 6-8 general purpose lanes up to Mooresville and left alone - traffic congestion would've gone down and the highway still would have had plenty of room to grow over the next 20+ years.
Well considering NCDOT started the widening project in Salisbury instead of Concord the demand could never be created due to the bottlenecks through Caburrus and South Rowan County.
the I-77/I-85 interchange needs MAJOR renovations. There's a BIG headache with going on it.
Also, I-85 getting express lanes like I-77 is?
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 15, 2021, 04:51:26 PM
Also, I-85 getting express lanes like I-77 is?
Don't think so, though I could reasonably see them useful particularly out to Gastonia, alongside 4 general purpose lanes in each direction.
Otherwise, NCDOT has been smart and used common sense on that corridor and is seeing very positive results specifically north and east of the city.
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 15, 2021, 04:51:26 PM
the I-77/I-85 interchange needs MAJOR renovations. There's a BIG headache with going on it.
Also, I-85 getting express lanes like I-77 is?
Yeah, I agree. I-77/I-85 needs MAJOR renovations. They need to fix that. However, I-85 isn't getting express lanes as it is 8 lanes all the way though Charlotte. Traffic can be bad on that stretch, but none of them requires an express lanes to be built. I don't think there will be a room for it with frontage roads on both sides of I-85 in some areas.
There are now plans for mass transit along the 74/29 to Gastonia, I could actually in this case see it as having an impact.
Quote from: Strider on May 15, 2021, 08:03:36 PM
I don't think there will be a room for it with frontage roads on both sides of I-85 in some areas.
See, that's when you go all Texas and go into the sky.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 15, 2021, 04:59:38 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 15, 2021, 04:51:26 PM
Also, I-85 getting express lanes like I-77 is?
Don't think so, though I could reasonably see them useful particularly out to Gastonia, alongside 4 general purpose lanes in each direction.
Otherwise, NCDOT has been smart and used common sense on that corridor and is seeing very positive results specifically north and east of the city.
NCDOT has almost completed widening I-85 through the entire state. It won't ever do it right at the borders, because that would only help out of staters lol.
They have been at work on I-85 for a long time, at least 20 years. No more 4 lane stretches.
If they have to rebuild a big interstate now, they ideally will make it 8 lanes and that will be be it since after 4 lanes any additional lane has diminishing returns. 8 lanes is the standard now for NC except at certain locations which may need to be bigger.
Quote from: architect77 on May 16, 2021, 05:23:04 AM
NCDOT has almost completed widening I-85 through the entire state. It won't ever do it right at the borders, because that would only help out of staters lol.
I can reasonably see them expediting the portion from US-74 to the South Carolina line, especially now that South Carolina (a miracle on its own) is going to the state line.
The portion north of Durham all the way to Petersburg, VA doesn't have the numbers or traffic congestion to warrant any more than 4 lanes. The last substandard portion, north of Henderson, has been modernized and reconstructed, and the highway is now posted at 70 mph throughout.
Overall, North Carolina has done a very good job with I-85. Attention is now going to turn to I-95, now ongoing with the over 50 miles of 8 lane widening, then hopefully with more 6 lane widening planned eventually for the entire duration. The highway honestly needs it all the way through due to peak volumes making the highway unreliable. I-85 sees peak volumes, though I don't think the portion north of Durham gets to the point where a third lane is needed even then. I-95 is another story.
Here's something that will never happen - VDOT widening I-95 to 6 lanes between the North Carolina state line and I-295.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 16, 2021, 06:06:24 AM
Quote from: architect77 on May 16, 2021, 05:23:04 AM
NCDOT has almost completed widening I-85 through the entire state. It won't ever do it right at the borders, because that would only help out of staters lol.
I can reasonably see them expediting the portion from US-74 to the South Carolina line, especially now that South Carolina (a miracle on its own) is going to the state line.
The portion north of Durham all the way to Petersburg, VA doesn't have the numbers or traffic congestion to warrant any more than 4 lanes. The last substandard portion, north of Henderson, has been modernized and reconstructed, and the highway is now posted at 70 mph throughout.
Overall, North Carolina has done a very good job with I-85. Attention is now going to turn to I-95, now ongoing with the over 50 miles of 8 lane widening, then hopefully with more 6 lane widening planned eventually for the entire duration. The highway honestly needs it all the way through due to peak volumes making the highway unreliable. I-85 sees peak volumes, though I don't think the portion north of Durham gets to the point where a third lane is needed even then. I-95 is another story.
Here's something that will never happen - VDOT widening I-95 to 6 lanes between the North Carolina state line and I-295.
The only part of I-85 in the state that still hasn't been upgraded from the original construction is in Orange county between I-40 and NC 147. It really needs another lane each way. The unofficial speed limit is about 80, and there's one steep uphill southbound that catches lots of truckers by surprise. This creates a sketchy passing situation where the faster traffic starts weaving around the slow trucks and normal speed cars. Lots of accidents happen along this stretch.
^
I will agree, that segment needs to be widened to 6 lanes and modernized completely.
They also ought to raise the speed limit on I-85 / I-40 between Greensboro and Durham to 70 mph. That 8 lane segment can easily handle it, real speeds are often in excess of 80 mph, and reasonably so, the highway is straight, wide, and 65 mph is universally ignored. It's like this region's version of the New Jersey Turnpike.
Widening I-85 from the Catawba River to the South Carolina line has been met with the same delays other projects have faced. The only section moving forward at this time is the eight-lane widening to U.S. 321 (I-5719 (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-widening-gaston-county/Pages/default.aspx)), which looks like it should start in 2024. I believe it was originally slated to begin this year. This project is going to be a nightmare with the number of interchanges and overpasses that have to be reconstructed. The Norfolk Southern Railway's mainline has to be relocated... twice.
The section from U.S. 321 to U.S. 74 isn't awful, but is approaching capacity. At one point they were wanting to complete the six-lane widening between U.S. 74 and the state line before starting on the eight-lane widening between U.S. 321 and U.S. 74, but everything has been delayed anyway. The traffic volumes really aren't that high south of U.S. 74 and have been pretty stable over the last 15 years. Both projects were combined into project I-5985 and split into segments A and B for planning and environmental purposes. I don't see why they couldn't have two lanes drop and add at U.S. 74 like I-85 sort of does at the I-40 interchange near Hillsborough.
What amazes me is the project to improve the I-85/I-485 interchange west of Charlotte (I-6016) isn't planned to start until 2027. That interchange has been a cluster for so long already.
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on May 16, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
The traffic volumes really aren't that high south of U.S. 74 and have been pretty stable over the last 15 years.
That's true, but when South Carolina finishes their project, you're going to have 6 lanes going to 4 at the state line, then in less than 10 miles back out to 6 lanes.
That will likely increase the need to simply close the gap, especially if backups start becoming a thing at the border when the lane drops.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 16, 2021, 12:34:54 PM
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on May 16, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
The traffic volumes really aren't that high south of U.S. 74 and have been pretty stable over the last 15 years.
That's true, but when South Carolina finishes their project, you're going to have 6 lanes going to 4 at the state line, then in less than 10 miles back out to 6 lanes.
That will likely increase the need to simply close the gap, especially if backups start becoming a thing at the border when the lane drops.
I agree that this will incease the urgency for this small section, but if I had to choose priorities, I'd focus on widening I-77.
Now I know that Charlotte chose to do I-485, I -85, HOV and toll lanes first which used decades-worth of funding for the division.
Now this decade Wake County has a lot projects going on after waiting a long time.
But I-77 now stands out as a dire need. It's the 1st or 2nd most heavily used freeway in the state and Charlotte business leaders should try to come up with a way to fund it asap.
Just 10 years ago people on I-85 got a dangerous surprise as suddenly they were on the old Yadkin River bridge without warning and no room for error or it would be deadly.
But Bev Perdue found $400 million from somewhere to replace that bridge thankfully.
I thought I had read that I-85 through Gaston county was going to be widened again to get a 4th lane in each direction.
I endured the first construction project in the 90s going back and forth from Raleigh to Atlanta and it was awful, dragging on for years with long backups. US29/74 was the official alternate and I-485 hadn't even reached i-85 yet.
Quote from: architect77 on May 26, 2021, 01:43:42 PM
But I-77 now stands out as a dire need. It's the 1st or 2nd most heavily used freeway in the state and Charlotte business leaders should try to come up with a way to fund it asap.
Specifically, where?
Quote from: architect77 on May 26, 2021, 01:43:42 PM
I thought I had read that I-85 through Gaston county was going to be widened again to get a 4th lane in each direction.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-widening-gaston-county/Pages/default.aspx
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 26, 2021, 01:51:48 PM
Quote from: architect77 on May 26, 2021, 01:43:42 PM
But I-77 now stands out as a dire need. It's the 1st or 2nd most heavily used freeway in the state and Charlotte business leaders should try to come up with a way to fund it asap.
Specifically, where?
Quote from: architect77 on May 26, 2021, 01:43:42 PM
I thought I had read that I-85 through Gaston county was going to be widened again to get a 4th lane in each direction.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-widening-gaston-county/Pages/default.aspx
The portion south of Uptown Charlotte to the SC Border. It's cramped, congested, and subpar for the amount of traffic it carries. It's actually busier than all the other parts of 77 in the region. NC likely hasn't widened yet because of the sheer cost to expand the freeway in that area. It will easily be the most expensive project ever undertaken by the NCDOT.
Quote from: Mileage Mike on May 26, 2021, 03:23:58 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 26, 2021, 01:51:48 PM
Quote from: architect77 on May 26, 2021, 01:43:42 PM
But I-77 now stands out as a dire need. It's the 1st or 2nd most heavily used freeway in the state and Charlotte business leaders should try to come up with a way to fund it asap.
Specifically, where?
Quote from: architect77 on May 26, 2021, 01:43:42 PM
I thought I had read that I-85 through Gaston county was going to be widened again to get a 4th lane in each direction.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-widening-gaston-county/Pages/default.aspx
The portion south of Uptown Charlotte to the SC Border. It's cramped, congested, and subpar for the amount of traffic it carries. It's actually busier than all the other parts of 77 in the region. NC likely hasn't widened yet because of the sheer cost to expand the freeway in that area. It will easily be the most expensive project ever undertaken by the NCDOT.
IIRC, weren't they planning something like 3 or 4 general purpose lanes alongside 1 or 2 HO/T lanes in each direction? IMO, a better and more appropriate location for HO/T lanes, unlike the current ones north of I-485.
Quote from: architect77 on May 26, 2021, 01:43:42 PM
But I-77 now stands out as a dire need. It's the 1st or 2nd most heavily used freeway in the state and Charlotte business leaders should try to come up with a way to fund it asap.
Third if you want to go by the highest count per route from NCDOT's latest AADT data (2019), but we all know there's more to congestion than sheer numbers. I-77's numbers around and north of I-277 have been down the past several years, probably due to all of the HOT construction. I doubt there's enough data available yet (plus COVID) to know what affect those had on volumes.
- I-40 between Page Rd and I-540 (196,000)... and approximately 7 miles of I-40 between Durham and Raleigh with AADT exceeding 173,000
- I-85 between Graham St and Sugar Creek Rd (175,000, down from a max of 183,000 in 2017)
- I-77 between the South Carolina line and Westinghouse Blvd (161,000, max of 163,000 in 2017)
I could be totally wrong on the following estimates, but I-77 does have the greatest number of vehicles per lane in the state between exits 4 and 8 (151,000 AADT / 6 lanes = 25,167). I-85 between exits 22 and 26 is 139,000 AADT / 6 lanes = 23,167. Those estimates take into account auxiliary lanes between exits for the total lane count in other locations. For example, the 196,000 mentioned for I-40 has eight through lanes, an auxiliary lane each direction, and a lane from the I-540 on-ramp that ends after the Page Rd exit, totaling to 11 lanes (17,818 vehicles per lane per day). Even if you only counted through lanes, I think I-77 is still the winner, er, loser.
Quote from: Mileage Mike on May 26, 2021, 03:23:58 PM
The portion south of Uptown Charlotte to the SC Border. It's cramped, congested, and subpar for the amount of traffic it carries. It's actually busier than all the other parts of 77 in the region. NC likely hasn't widened yet because of the sheer cost to expand the freeway in that area. It will easily be the most expensive project ever undertaken by the NCDOT.
I think an estimate at one time for this stretch of I-77 was approaching or exceeding $1 billion? The estimate for the
I-26 connector (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/Project%20Breakdown%20Maps/I-2513.pdf) in Asheville is currently that much, and will likely far exceed $1 billion by the time construction starts (delayed until 2024) and finishes.
Edit: To answer my own question, the STIP estimate for I-5718A (South Carolina to I-277) is $800 million and funded 2029/post-year, and another $250 million inside I-277 (I-5718B, unfunded).
I-5718 Project Breakdown Map (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/Project%20Breakdown%20Maps/I-5718.pdf)
So, is this to indicate that I-77 widening has some funding and will commence in 2029?
I would have estimated the cost to be double of what they are estimating because of the land acquisition and staging on an active highway. it's a good thing to come in around $ billion I think.
I would like one new general purpose lane though, and not go to all that effort just for 2 HOT lanes in each direction.
Quote from: architect77 on May 30, 2021, 04:03:40 PM
So, is this to indicate that I-77 widening has some funding and will commence in 2029?
Not really. Right-of-way acquisition is tentatively scheduled to begin in FY 2029. Construction is currently unfunded. It was likely scheduled that way just to keep the project in the STIP. Any portion can be accelerated or delayed, depending on funding. I believe projects that far out are subject to reprioritization during the biennial STIP development as well, so it could move either direction. Projects get shuffled around monthly and the STIP isn't etched in stone.
There is a lot of planning, design and preliminary engineering (which also has to be funded) and the final environmental document approved before any of that can happen. Big projects like this one can cost several million dollars before a shovel is even moved.
NCDOT awarded a contract to improve I-85 between exits 36 and 42. Work can start by late July and will wrap up by May 2023.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-06-29-I-85-improvement-mecklenburg-county.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-06-29-I-85-improvement-mecklenburg-county.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on June 29, 2021, 04:04:21 PM
NCDOT awarded a contract to improve I-85 between exits 36 and 42. Work can start by late July and will wrap up by May 2023.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-06-29-I-85-improvement-mecklenburg-county.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-06-29-I-85-improvement-mecklenburg-county.aspx)
In addition to this, another contract was awarded to improve several other roads in Mecklenburg County. Work can begin on July 26 and is expected to be complete by August 1, 2022.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-06-29-improvements-mecklenburg-county.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-06-29-improvements-mecklenburg-county.aspx)
The new Elm Lane bridge over I-485 opened this morning.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-08-31-elm-lane-bridge-opens.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-08-31-elm-lane-bridge-opens.aspx)
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on May 16, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Widening I-85 from the Catawba River to the South Carolina line has been met with the same delays other projects have faced. The only section moving forward at this time is the eight-lane widening to U.S. 321 (I-5719 (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-widening-gaston-county/Pages/default.aspx)), which looks like it should start in 2024. I believe it was originally slated to begin this year. This project is going to be a nightmare with the number of interchanges and overpasses that have to be reconstructed. The Norfolk Southern Railway's mainline has to be relocated... twice.
The section from U.S. 321 to U.S. 74 isn't awful, but is approaching capacity. At one point they were wanting to complete the six-lane widening between U.S. 74 and the state line before starting on the eight-lane widening between U.S. 321 and U.S. 74, but everything has been delayed anyway. The traffic volumes really aren't that high south of U.S. 74 and have been pretty stable over the last 15 years. Both projects were combined into project I-5985 and split into segments A and B for planning and environmental purposes. I don't see why they couldn't have two lanes drop and add at U.S. 74 like I-85 sort of does at the I-40 interchange near Hillsborough.
What amazes me is the project to improve the I-85/I-485 interchange west of Charlotte (I-6016) isn't planned to start until 2027. That interchange has been a cluster for so long already.
What's wrong with the 85/485 interchange? It seems to be generously spaced out with long flyovers and ramps. I've never seen the West wall of 485 heavily crowded or backed up, but it could be because I'm always looking at the line of planes coming in to land at CLT.
Quote from: architect77 on September 04, 2021, 06:58:16 PM
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on May 16, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Widening I-85 from the Catawba River to the South Carolina line has been met with the same delays other projects have faced. The only section moving forward at this time is the eight-lane widening to U.S. 321 (I-5719 (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-widening-gaston-county/Pages/default.aspx)), which looks like it should start in 2024. I believe it was originally slated to begin this year. This project is going to be a nightmare with the number of interchanges and overpasses that have to be reconstructed. The Norfolk Southern Railway's mainline has to be relocated... twice.
The section from U.S. 321 to U.S. 74 isn't awful, but is approaching capacity. At one point they were wanting to complete the six-lane widening between U.S. 74 and the state line before starting on the eight-lane widening between U.S. 321 and U.S. 74, but everything has been delayed anyway. The traffic volumes really aren't that high south of U.S. 74 and have been pretty stable over the last 15 years. Both projects were combined into project I-5985 and split into segments A and B for planning and environmental purposes. I don't see why they couldn't have two lanes drop and add at U.S. 74 like I-85 sort of does at the I-40 interchange near Hillsborough.
What amazes me is the project to improve the I-85/I-485 interchange west of Charlotte (I-6016) isn't planned to start until 2027. That interchange has been a cluster for so long already.
What's wrong with the 85/485 interchange? It seems to be generously spaced out with long flyovers and ramps. I've never seen the West wall of 485 heavily crowded or backed up, but it could be because I'm always looking at the line of planes coming in to land at CLT.
The westbound exit ramps on I-485 bottle neck to one lane. Then that lane immediately drops, and the fourth lane on I-85 becomes an exit lane after crossing the Catawba. Traffic on that part of the interchange and I-85 to Belmont is almost always congested. I do think the I-85/77 and the I-77/277 interchanges are the worst in the metro, but this interchange is pretty close.
Quote from: architect77 on September 04, 2021, 06:58:16 PM
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on May 16, 2021, 11:50:29 AM
Widening I-85 from the Catawba River to the South Carolina line has been met with the same delays other projects have faced. The only section moving forward at this time is the eight-lane widening to U.S. 321 (I-5719 (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-widening-gaston-county/Pages/default.aspx)), which looks like it should start in 2024. I believe it was originally slated to begin this year. This project is going to be a nightmare with the number of interchanges and overpasses that have to be reconstructed. The Norfolk Southern Railway's mainline has to be relocated... twice.
The section from U.S. 321 to U.S. 74 isn't awful, but is approaching capacity. At one point they were wanting to complete the six-lane widening between U.S. 74 and the state line before starting on the eight-lane widening between U.S. 321 and U.S. 74, but everything has been delayed anyway. The traffic volumes really aren't that high south of U.S. 74 and have been pretty stable over the last 15 years. Both projects were combined into project I-5985 and split into segments A and B for planning and environmental purposes. I don't see why they couldn't have two lanes drop and add at U.S. 74 like I-85 sort of does at the I-40 interchange near Hillsborough.
What amazes me is the project to improve the I-85/I-485 interchange west of Charlotte (I-6016) isn't planned to start until 2027. That interchange has been a cluster for so long already.
What's wrong with the 85/485 interchange? It seems to be generously spaced out with long flyovers and ramps. I've never seen the West wall of 485 heavily crowded or backed up, but it could be because I'm always looking at the line of planes coming in to land at CLT.
I've personally sat in horrible congestion through that interchange coming from I-485 to I-85 South. There's definitely an issue with it, along with its approach onto I-85 South.
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 05, 2021, 03:41:21 AM
I've personally sat in horrible congestion through that interchange coming from I-485 to I-85 South. There's definitely an issue with it, along with its approach onto I-85 South.
Second that; I drive that interchange at most a handful of times in a year, and I've been backed up horribly in it more than a few times.
It seems like the congestion got worse on southbound I-85 after they reconfigured the lanes. Previously the left lane ended just after Exit 27 and everyone would cut in at the last second and make stupid decisions that led to lots of hard braking and near misses. I thought it would improve after the update to make the right lane exit at Exit 27, but it seems like it made it worse. I hope the same thing doesn't happen when they make the same change to I-40 at US 15/501 in Durham.
^ They effectively pushed the merge point further east by reconfiguring that lane drop, pushing any queue caused by the lane drop into the queue from the I-485 interchange. Seems like a poor decision on their part.
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 06, 2021, 04:28:53 AM
^ They effectively pushed the merge point further east by reconfiguring that lane drop, pushing any queue caused by the lane drop into the queue from the I-485 interchange. Seems like a poor decision on their part.
I will say though, the new setup is less dangerous. When the left lane drop was in place, many aggressive drivers would cut in too late and cause a crash. The left shoulder there is narrow so no room for error. I can recall many a crash there causing the entire southbound side to be blocked.
Ok so I-85 is culprit regarding the interchange congestion.
I looked at a map and it looks like they didn't do much for the transitions in directions that had other highways not too far away going in the same direction. zIn other words, locals would the another road first to uptown rather than use the outerbelt and I-85. I'm looking set the NW quadrant of Meck when I hypothesize this.
Quote from: architect77 on September 11, 2021, 09:08:07 AM
Ok so I-85 is culprit regarding the interchange congestion.
I looked at a map and it looks like they didn't do much for the transitions in directions that had other highways not too far away going in the same direction. zIn other words, locals would the another road first to uptown rather than use the outerbelt and I-85. I'm looking set the NW quadrant of Meck when I hypothesize this.
The core issue is the loss of the 4th lane going into Gaston County. Until I-85 is widened through there you will have a chokepoint due to the loss of capacity. It's similar to how I-85 north of Charlotte used to always have a chokepoint wherever the freeway dropped from 4 lanes. Around rush hour the problem is that you have lots of traffic coming off the SW quadrant of 485 (via Ballantyne) and the traffic coming from Uptown via 85 converging together shortly before the loss of the 4th lane and then being squeezed down to 3 lanes into Gaston. There really isn't a decent alternative as waiting in traffic on 85 is still usually faster than going down Wilkinson through all the stoplights and those are the only Catawba River crossings in the area.
When is the next phase of construction on Independence Blvd supposed to start? The project page on NCDOT's website says that ROW acquisition should have already started and that construction should start next year. But I'm pretty sure property acquisition hasn't started yet:
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/us-74-express-lanes/Pages/default.aspx
Quote from: Mileage Mike on September 11, 2021, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: architect77 on September 11, 2021, 09:08:07 AM
Ok so I-85 is culprit regarding the interchange congestion.
I looked at a map and it looks like they didn't do much for the transitions in directions that had other highways not too far away going in the same direction. zIn other words, locals would the another road first to uptown rather than use the outerbelt and I-85. I'm looking set the NW quadrant of Meck when I hypothesize this.
The core issue is the loss of the 4th lane going into Gaston County. Until I-85 is widened through there you will have a chokepoint due to the loss of capacity. It's similar to how I-85 north of Charlotte used to always have a chokepoint wherever the freeway dropped from 4 lanes. Around rush hour the problem is that you have lots of traffic coming off the SW quadrant of 485 (via Ballantyne) and the traffic coming from Uptown via 85 converging together shortly before the loss of the 4th lane and then being squeezed down to 3 lanes into Gaston. There really isn't a decent alternative as waiting in traffic on 85 is still usually faster than going down Wilkinson through all the stoplights and those are the only Catawba River crossings in the area.
Gaston County is pushing for another crossing across the Catawba. I believe it's a remnant of what the Gaston Parkway was going to be. However, I wouldn't expect this project to happen for at least another decade.
https://catawbacrossings.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Corridor-Map-scaled.jpg
Even with I-85 widened to four lanes to the south/west, there are still over 30,000 vehicles merging into a one-lane ramp from I-485 to I-85 southbound on an average day. The congestion from the I-85 bottleneck doesn't help, but this problem won't go away until the ramps from I-485 are extended. What's needed are three lanes from I-485. Lane 7 ends at the Sam Wilson Rd overpass, lane 6 ends before the Moores Chapel Rd overpass, lane 5 exits at Exit 27, and then four lanes to US 321.
I would also vote for relocating the southbound weigh station as that is forcing all trucks into the right lane and interfering with the flow of things as they have to merge left twice in half a mile after leaving the station.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51447032219_08b210dd55_h.jpg) (https://goo.gl/maps/92SntqgxENTBo9m58)
The new flyover bridge at Concord Mills opens this afternoon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on November 24, 2021, 01:49:42 PM
The new flyover bridge at Concord Mills opens this afternoon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx)
Just in time for Black Friday
Quote from: Mileage Mike on November 24, 2021, 08:15:29 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 24, 2021, 01:49:42 PM
The new flyover bridge at Concord Mills opens this afternoon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx)
Just in time for Black Friday
Gonna have to go back up there and check that out. A month and a half ago, when I went to Concord Mills to return something for my wife, the flyover didn't look like it was close to being finished. I suppose the rain letting up for the past few weeks allowed the contractors to focus on finishing things up.
I'm hoping NC starts doing this type of thing more often at certain busy intersections. It seems to have made a difference in Florida. Specifically, in the Ft. Myers area, where they did a similar treatment to intersections used heavily by beach traffic.
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 25, 2021, 08:46:45 AM
Quote from: Mileage Mike on November 24, 2021, 08:15:29 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 24, 2021, 01:49:42 PM
The new flyover bridge at Concord Mills opens this afternoon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx)
Just in time for Black Friday
Gonna have to go back up there and check that out. A month and a half ago, when I went to Concord Mills to return something for my wife, the flyover didn't look like it was close to being finished. I suppose the rain letting up for the past few weeks allowed the contractors to focus on finishing things up.
I'm hoping NC starts doing this type of thing more often at certain busy intersections. It seems to have made a difference in Florida. Specifically, in the Ft. Myers area, where they did a similar treatment to intersections used heavily by beach traffic.
I would like for Crabtree Valley Mall to get one of those.
Quote from: tolbs17 on November 25, 2021, 10:55:02 AM
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 25, 2021, 08:46:45 AM
Quote from: Mileage Mike on November 24, 2021, 08:15:29 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 24, 2021, 01:49:42 PM
The new flyover bridge at Concord Mills opens this afternoon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx)
Just in time for Black Friday
Gonna have to go back up there and check that out. A month and a half ago, when I went to Concord Mills to return something for my wife, the flyover didn't look like it was close to being finished. I suppose the rain letting up for the past few weeks allowed the contractors to focus on finishing things up.
I'm hoping NC starts doing this type of thing more often at certain busy intersections. It seems to have made a difference in Florida. Specifically, in the Ft. Myers area, where they did a similar treatment to intersections used heavily by beach traffic.
I would like for Crabtree Valley Mall to get one of those.
That's great.
As it is no longer needed, why don't you suggest moving the one from the former Landmark Mall in Virginia to there while you're at it.
Quote from: Alex on November 25, 2021, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on November 25, 2021, 10:55:02 AM
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 25, 2021, 08:46:45 AM
Quote from: Mileage Mike on November 24, 2021, 08:15:29 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 24, 2021, 01:49:42 PM
The new flyover bridge at Concord Mills opens this afternoon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx)
Just in time for Black Friday
Gonna have to go back up there and check that out. A month and a half ago, when I went to Concord Mills to return something for my wife, the flyover didn't look like it was close to being finished. I suppose the rain letting up for the past few weeks allowed the contractors to focus on finishing things up.
I'm hoping NC starts doing this type of thing more often at certain busy intersections. It seems to have made a difference in Florida. Specifically, in the Ft. Myers area, where they did a similar treatment to intersections used heavily by beach traffic.
I would like for Crabtree Valley Mall to get one of those.
That's great.
As it is no longer needed, why don't you suggest moving the one from the former Landmark Mall in Virginia to there while you're at it.
Great Idea, and NCDOT already plans to improve Glenwood Ave and I-440 traffic.
Quote from: tolbs17 on November 26, 2021, 04:32:18 PM
Quote from: Alex on November 25, 2021, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on November 25, 2021, 10:55:02 AM
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 25, 2021, 08:46:45 AM
Quote from: Mileage Mike on November 24, 2021, 08:15:29 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 24, 2021, 01:49:42 PM
The new flyover bridge at Concord Mills opens this afternoon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx)
Just in time for Black Friday
Gonna have to go back up there and check that out. A month and a half ago, when I went to Concord Mills to return something for my wife, the flyover didn't look like it was close to being finished. I suppose the rain letting up for the past few weeks allowed the contractors to focus on finishing things up.
I'm hoping NC starts doing this type of thing more often at certain busy intersections. It seems to have made a difference in Florida. Specifically, in the Ft. Myers area, where they did a similar treatment to intersections used heavily by beach traffic.
I would like for Crabtree Valley Mall to get one of those.
That's great.
As it is no longer needed, why don't you suggest moving the one from the former Landmark Mall in Virginia to there while you're at it.
Great Idea, and NCDOT already plans to improve Glenwood Ave and I-440 traffic.
I think Alex was being sarcastic.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on November 26, 2021, 06:18:18 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on November 26, 2021, 04:32:18 PM
Quote from: Alex on November 25, 2021, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on November 25, 2021, 10:55:02 AM
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 25, 2021, 08:46:45 AM
Quote from: Mileage Mike on November 24, 2021, 08:15:29 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 24, 2021, 01:49:42 PM
The new flyover bridge at Concord Mills opens this afternoon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx)
Just in time for Black Friday
Gonna have to go back up there and check that out. A month and a half ago, when I went to Concord Mills to return something for my wife, the flyover didn't look like it was close to being finished. I suppose the rain letting up for the past few weeks allowed the contractors to focus on finishing things up.
I'm hoping NC starts doing this type of thing more often at certain busy intersections. It seems to have made a difference in Florida. Specifically, in the Ft. Myers area, where they did a similar treatment to intersections used heavily by beach traffic.
I would like for Crabtree Valley Mall to get one of those.
That's great.
As it is no longer needed, why don't you suggest moving the one from the former Landmark Mall in Virginia to there while you're at it.
Great Idea, and NCDOT already plans to improve Glenwood Ave and I-440 traffic.
I think Alex was being sarcastic.
Ah didn't realize.
Quote from: tolbs17 on November 26, 2021, 04:32:18 PM
Quote from: Alex on November 25, 2021, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on November 25, 2021, 10:55:02 AM
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 25, 2021, 08:46:45 AM
Quote from: Mileage Mike on November 24, 2021, 08:15:29 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 24, 2021, 01:49:42 PM
The new flyover bridge at Concord Mills opens this afternoon.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-11-24-concord-mills-bridge-opening.aspx)
Just in time for Black Friday
Gonna have to go back up there and check that out. A month and a half ago, when I went to Concord Mills to return something for my wife, the flyover didn't look like it was close to being finished. I suppose the rain letting up for the past few weeks allowed the contractors to focus on finishing things up.
I'm hoping NC starts doing this type of thing more often at certain busy intersections. It seems to have made a difference in Florida. Specifically, in the Ft. Myers area, where they did a similar treatment to intersections used heavily by beach traffic.
I would like for Crabtree Valley Mall to get one of those.
That's great.
As it is no longer needed, why don't you suggest moving the one from the former Landmark Mall in Virginia to there while you're at it.
Great Idea, and NCDOT already plans to improve Glenwood Ave and I-440 traffic.
That project has been pushed back for at least 5 years. As slow as most projects are completed you could count on one hand how many you'll see in your lifetime. Will any of us see I-95 8 lanes through the state? I won't.
^ Are you referring to a single segment of 8 lanes or the entire distance throughout the state? Because if the former, then close to 50 miles is already under construction / going to be soon. And if the latter, than that's a definite given outside of the 50 miles already underway for 8 lanes, the remainder is only planned for mostly just 6 lanes.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 02, 2021, 02:49:03 AM
^ Are you referring to a single segment of 8 lanes or the entire distance throughout the state? Because if the former, then close to 50 miles is already under construction / going to be soon. And if the latter, than that's a definite given outside of the 50 miles already underway for 8 lanes, the remainder is only planned for mostly just 6 lanes.
The entire length of I-95. It will take a long time. I hope we get NC connected to the Northeast Corridor by faster train service much sooner.
The only missing link is 100 miles of the abandoned S line between Raleigh and Richmond. Virginia now owns the right of way, and the two states just need to find $4 billion to bring it back into service.
Virginia is upgrading service from D.C. to Richmond, so I have faith that Charlotte and Raleigh will see faster service to the Northeast within 20 years.
When looking at this, I hope this would give a boost to the I-485 express lanes project.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsoctv.com/news/local/documents-link-best-buy-industrial-project-eyeing-property-near-charlotte-airport/XMRV5BMV3BDWBGKBOPBCZSCPGE/%3foutputType=amp
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 03, 2022, 11:59:29 PM
When looking at this, I hope this would give a boost to the I-485 express lanes project.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsoctv.com/news/local/documents-link-best-buy-industrial-project-eyeing-property-near-charlotte-airport/XMRV5BMV3BDWBGKBOPBCZSCPGE/%3foutputType=amp
Doesn't need a boost. The whole south end of Charlotte out to the airport is too busy as it is. They're making a big mistake not adding one more free lane in each direction from US 74 to NC 16, and they need a fourth from 77 south side to 85 west side, plus a reworking of the on-ramp to 85 south.
Quote from: wriddle082 on March 04, 2022, 04:39:18 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 03, 2022, 11:59:29 PM
When looking at this, I hope this would give a boost to the I-485 express lanes project.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsoctv.com/news/local/documents-link-best-buy-industrial-project-eyeing-property-near-charlotte-airport/XMRV5BMV3BDWBGKBOPBCZSCPGE/%3foutputType=amp
Doesn't need a boost. The whole south end of Charlotte out to the airport is too busy as it is. They're making a big mistake not adding one more free lane in each direction from US 74 to NC 16, and they need a fourth from 77 south side to 85 west side, plus a reworking of the on-ramp to 85 south.
What's weird about the widening of I-485 from NC 16 to US 74 is that they left enough space for a third general purpose (or second express lane). Seems like this will create an unnecessary bottleneck in the future.
Quote from: Third Strike on March 04, 2022, 09:19:19 AM
Quote from: wriddle082 on March 04, 2022, 04:39:18 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 03, 2022, 11:59:29 PM
When looking at this, I hope this would give a boost to the I-485 express lanes project.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsoctv.com/news/local/documents-link-best-buy-industrial-project-eyeing-property-near-charlotte-airport/XMRV5BMV3BDWBGKBOPBCZSCPGE/%3foutputType=amp
Doesn't need a boost. The whole south end of Charlotte out to the airport is too busy as it is. They're making a big mistake not adding one more free lane in each direction from US 74 to NC 16, and they need a fourth from 77 south side to 85 west side, plus a reworking of the on-ramp to 85 south.
What's weird about the widening of I-485 from NC 16 to US 74 is that they left enough space for a third general purpose (or second express lane). Seems like this will create an unnecessary bottleneck in the future.
Short term it might be ok, but long term it definitely needs the extra lane. What really remains to be seen IMO is the impact that the new Weddington Rd exit is going to have, in terms of adding traffic to the inner loop in the mornings.
"At this point, the proposal is just that - a proposal. However, it's been a rumored possibility for a few years. Whether or not CRTPO gives the idea its blessing is unknown. But many community leaders on the CRTPO board still have a bad taste in their mouths after Northern Mecklenburg's toll experience. As a result, it may take a whole lot of mouthwash to make these toll lanes a reality."
NCDOT shares an unsolicited I-77 South Toll Lanes proposal to local leaders:
Story Links:
https://www.wfae.org/politics/2022-07-21/i-77-express-lane-proposal-receives-tense-welcome-from-regional-transportation-organization
https://www.wbtv.com/2022/07/20/transportation-officials-set-discuss-proposal-add-toll-lanes-i-77-south/
https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/more-tolls-proposed-interstate-77-charlotte-south-carolina-state-border/
My Take:
https://www.gribblenation.org/2022/07/more-toll-lanes-in-charlotte-maybe.html
Quote from: CanesFan27 on July 23, 2022, 04:38:32 PM
"At this point, the proposal is just that - a proposal. However, it's been a rumored possibility for a few years. Whether or not CRTPO gives the idea its blessing is unknown. But many community leaders on the CRTPO board still have a bad taste in their mouths after Northern Mecklenburg's toll experience. As a result, it may take a whole lot of mouthwash to make these toll lanes a reality."
It is no secret that NCDOT wants to add manage lanes along I-77 south from Uptown to the state line, it is in the current STIP clearly stating as such. What is angering everyone is that a 3rd party is making a unsolicited proposal to be part of that future project and everyone knows who this "anonymous" company is. :popcorn:
Has anyone heard anything about a date for the Weddington Road/I-485 intersection?
Mark was right - it's cintra behind the unsolicited I-77 managed lanes proposal.
Some details from their proposal:
- $2.3 billion price tag
- 50-year operational contract
- Would add two managed lanes in each direction / no additional general (toll-free lanes)
- Direct interchanges with 5th st and Woodlawn Road.
- If construction started in 2024 - 2029 completion date
https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/local/cintra-interstate-77-tolls-uptown-charlotte-north-carolina-south-carolian-border/275-726810ee-fff0-4fa3-8076-24b21d1a4aba?fbclid=IwAR22HH57d7pnqfUNpUMlFWYPoh4pZCs6wbnb7N6TsMCW9eA_7xD-D1U_AAU
Earlier this week, the Charlotte Ledger had a story about the possible extension of the I-77 Toll Lanes south to the South Carolina line. Recently, Cintra, the company that built the toll lanes from Uptown Charlotte to Mooresville, submitted an unsolicited bid to construct and operate the toll lanes themselves.
Cintra says that if awarded a contract, they could have the toll lanes up and running by 2029. They would then operate the toll lanes on a 50-year lease. NCDOT says it would be in 2029 that they could begin to acquire the right of way. NCDOT also estimated it would take another 15 years to secure all the funding necessary to start construction. Apparently, the state has rules on the available amount of money that can go to a specific project or corridor at one time.
This news led to major heartburn for local leaders, who conceded that on a road that currently averages 160,000 vehicles per day with traffic at or above capacity seven to 11 hours a day that something may need to be done sooner. NCDOT predicts that by 2050 traffic will reach an average of 185,000 vehicles per day, and the highway at or beyond peak capacity 15-17 hours of the day. I need to tell my kids that they better find another way to take their kids to Carowinds in 2040.
So the question is: Do local leaders want to risk the headaches of another contract with Cintra? Or do they sit and wait for NCDOT to hopefully start construction in 20-25 years - hope that the schedule stays on target - and then look for additional funding resources to improve or even hold the timeline. It'll be worth watching; meanwhile, you may want to grab a Snickers.
https://charlotteledger.substack.com/i/74745435/adding-lanes-to-i-south-of-uptown-could-take-until-or-later-ncdot-says-momentum-for-privately-run-toll-lanes
Quote from: CanesFan27 on October 02, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
Earlier this week, the Charlotte Ledger had a story about the possible extension of the I-77 Toll Lanes south to the South Carolina line. Recently, Cintra, the company that built the toll lanes from Uptown Charlotte to Mooresville, submitted an unsolicited bid to construct and operate the toll lanes themselves.
Cintra says that if awarded a contract, they could have the toll lanes up and running by 2029. They would then operate the toll lanes on a 50-year lease. NCDOT says it would be in 2029 that they could begin to acquire the right of way. NCDOT also estimated it would take another 15 years to secure all the funding necessary to start construction. Apparently, the state has rules on the available amount of money that can go to a specific project or corridor at one time.
This news led to major heartburn for local leaders, who conceded that on a road that currently averages 160,000 vehicles per day with traffic at or above capacity seven to 11 hours a day that something may need to be done sooner. NCDOT predicts that by 2050 traffic will reach an average of 185,000 vehicles per day, and the highway at or beyond peak capacity 15-17 hours of the day. I need to tell my kids that they better find another way to take their kids to Carowinds in 2040.
So the question is: Do local leaders want to risk the headaches of another contract with Cintra? Or do they sit and wait for NCDOT to hopefully start construction in 20-25 years - hope that the schedule stays on target - and then look for additional funding resources to improve or even hold the timeline. It'll be worth watching; meanwhile, you may want to grab a Snickers.
https://charlotteledger.substack.com/i/74745435/adding-lanes-to-i-south-of-uptown-could-take-until-or-later-ncdot-says-momentum-for-privately-run-toll-lanes
I agree that I-77 is in dire need of expansion, but I also want everyone to remember a few other things:
1) The state tries to spread funding fairly across a state with a very dispersed population, and McCrory's revamp led to scoring for each proposed project so that funding goes to projects with the most benefit to the most citizens.
2) Charlotte now has the nicest, biggest, most concrete-paved, and most lit highways in the state. That NCDOT division chose I-485 as the priority over I-77 during the last 20 years.
3) Southern Wake County does have a lot of construction going on right now, but the rest of Raleigh and Northern Wake look dumpy and neglected. Unreadable overhead signs, trash and weeds line each exit ramp, it's a disgrace right now.
Trust me, Charlotte's interstates are looking good comparatively.
Quote from: architect77 on October 04, 2022, 07:31:45 PM
Quote from: CanesFan27 on October 02, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
Earlier this week, the Charlotte Ledger had a story about the possible extension of the I-77 Toll Lanes south to the South Carolina line. Recently, Cintra, the company that built the toll lanes from Uptown Charlotte to Mooresville, submitted an unsolicited bid to construct and operate the toll lanes themselves.
Cintra says that if awarded a contract, they could have the toll lanes up and running by 2029. They would then operate the toll lanes on a 50-year lease. NCDOT says it would be in 2029 that they could begin to acquire the right of way. NCDOT also estimated it would take another 15 years to secure all the funding necessary to start construction. Apparently, the state has rules on the available amount of money that can go to a specific project or corridor at one time.
This news led to major heartburn for local leaders, who conceded that on a road that currently averages 160,000 vehicles per day with traffic at or above capacity seven to 11 hours a day that something may need to be done sooner. NCDOT predicts that by 2050 traffic will reach an average of 185,000 vehicles per day, and the highway at or beyond peak capacity 15-17 hours of the day. I need to tell my kids that they better find another way to take their kids to Carowinds in 2040.
So the question is: Do local leaders want to risk the headaches of another contract with Cintra? Or do they sit and wait for NCDOT to hopefully start construction in 20-25 years - hope that the schedule stays on target - and then look for additional funding resources to improve or even hold the timeline. It'll be worth watching; meanwhile, you may want to grab a Snickers.
https://charlotteledger.substack.com/i/74745435/adding-lanes-to-i-south-of-uptown-could-take-until-or-later-ncdot-says-momentum-for-privately-run-toll-lanes
I agree that I-77 is in dire need of expansion, but I also want everyone to remember a few other things:
1) The state tries to spread funding fairly across a state with a very dispersed population, and McCrory's revamp led to scoring for each proposed project so that funding goes to projects with the most benefit to the most citizens.
2) Charlotte now has the nicest, biggest, most concrete-paved, and most lit highways in the state. That NCDOT division chose I-485 as the priority over I-77 during the last 20 years.
3) Southern Wake County does have a lot of construction going on right now, but the rest of Raleigh and Northern Wake look dumpy and neglected. Unreadable overhead signs, trash and weeds line each exit ramp, it's a disgrace right now.
Trust me, Charlotte's interstates are looking good comparatively.
I can confirm this after traveling there last month.
Surely NCDOT and Charlotte leadership learned from the last Cintra contract. There is a good reason NCDOT took over the operation of the I-77 toll lanes. Cintra completely botched the construction. The entire project ran over by about 5 years, with the cost greatly surpassing the original estimates. To have a look at Cintra's track record, see the Indiana Toll Road or Texas SH 130. It would be foolish to trust them with another project. I agree that I-77 south of downtown Charlotte needs extensive work, but Cintra is not the entity to do it.
Quote from: fillup420 on November 22, 2022, 07:12:26 PM
Surely NCDOT and Charlotte leadership learned from the last Cintra contract. There is a good reason NCDOT took over the operation of the I-77 toll lanes. Cintra completely botched the construction. The entire project ran over by about 5 years, with the cost greatly surpassing the original estimates. To have a look at Cintra's track record, see the Indiana Toll Road or Texas SH 130. It would be foolish to trust them with another project. I agree that I-77 south of downtown Charlotte needs extensive work, but Cintra is not the entity to do it.
Not sure where you heard NCDOT took over the operation of the I-77 toll lanes, they are still operated by Cintra. Also, NCDOT had already planned future lanes for I-77 south to South Carolina as toll lanes, its in the current STIP, just unfunded; what Cintra did was make an unsolicited bid that nobody appreciated.
Not just NC Dot that learns...McCrory 2016 loss was attributed to a 100,000 drop in votes from northern Mecklenburg over anger with the first Cinta deal. That won't happen again.
On last night's CBS Evening News, I caught a report about two employees of the network's affiliate (I believe one was a meteorologist) dying in a helicopter crash off I-77. This is such a tragic story, and their families are in my thoughts and prayers.
Quote from: Henry on November 23, 2022, 10:14:03 AM
On last night's CBS Evening News, I caught a report about two employees of the network's affiliate (I believe one was a meteorologist) dying in a helicopter crash off I-77. This is such a tragic story, and their families are in my thoughts and prayers.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/us/charlotte-north-carolina-helicopter-crash
WBTV meteorologist Jason Myers. Pilot Chris Tayag, a genuine hero, was able to maneuver the copter so it didn't crash into the travel lanes.
I didn't notice this till last night, but there is a sign now for NC 84 east on Rea Road exit on I-485 (exit 59). I checked Google Streetview and it has been there at least since June 2022. That said, there are no signage on Rea Road identifying it as NC 84 nor does any mapping on NCDOT confirms it yet. Anyone have more information on this?
Quote from: WashuOtaku on February 24, 2023, 09:03:55 AM
I didn't notice this till last night, but there is a sign now for NC 84 east on Rea Road exit on I-485 (exit 59). I checked Google Streetview and it has been there at least since June 2022. That said, there are no signage on Rea Road identifying it as NC 84 nor does any mapping on NCDOT confirms it yet. Anyone have more information on this?
Rea Rd is going to be extended to the current western terminus of NC 84 at NC 16 in Weddington. Construction was going to start soon but I believe it's been pushed back a year or so. Either way, the contractor performing the I-485 widening in the area jumped the gun by putting up these BGSs showing NC 84 running along Rea Rd.
Quote from: wriddle082 on February 24, 2023, 09:12:12 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on February 24, 2023, 09:03:55 AM
I didn't notice this till last night, but there is a sign now for NC 84 east on Rea Road exit on I-485 (exit 59). I checked Google Streetview and it has been there at least since June 2022. That said, there are no signage on Rea Road identifying it as NC 84 nor does any mapping on NCDOT confirms it yet. Anyone have more information on this?
Rea Rd is going to be extended to the current western terminus of NC 84 at NC 16 in Weddington. Construction was going to start soon but I believe it's been pushed back a year or so. Either way, the contractor performing the I-485 widening in the area jumped the gun by putting up these BGSs showing NC 84 running along Rea Rd.
Right now construction is expected to begin in 2028 according to the NCDOT Project website (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/rea-road-extension/Pages/default.aspx).
Charlotte's got a lot......of bus lanes reopening on Independence Blvd.
Charlotte transit leaders approve additional funds to reopen bus lanes on Independence Boulevard The project is expected to cost $1.3 million and restore access for buses and emergency vehicles to lanes closed since 2017.
https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/independence-boulevard-bus-lanes/275-4deb1483-00e5-4a0f-af14-30ba700fa9dd?fbclid=IwAR3CnALw-3CO5zRemUDj8zmpe-ZO4Akf06VbtV1nPFAf6StE72mFzNo4SZI_aem_AcR0q4QyTTj7KCAmC8w7POw2AIl6-k7VuOZWWJayoZ19_2ucUCtQ1QVx-Uxu7D_0G9c&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
Quote from: CanesFan27 on July 27, 2023, 10:50:00 AM
Charlotte's got a lot......of bus lanes reopening on Independence Blvd.
Charlotte transit leaders approve additional funds to reopen bus lanes on Independence Boulevard The project is expected to cost $1.3 million and restore access for buses and emergency vehicles to lanes closed since 2017.
https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/independence-boulevard-bus-lanes/275-4deb1483-00e5-4a0f-af14-30ba700fa9dd?fbclid=IwAR3CnALw-3CO5zRemUDj8zmpe-ZO4Akf06VbtV1nPFAf6StE72mFzNo4SZI_aem_AcR0q4QyTTj7KCAmC8w7POw2AIl6-k7VuOZWWJayoZ19_2ucUCtQ1QVx-Uxu7D_0G9c&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
I'd imagine most of that money is going to go towards reconfiguring the western terminus of the lanes, since the rebuilt Hawthorne Lane overpass's center pier is smack in the middle of the EB bus lane. I remember driving by here a few times while I lived in the area and being baffled by the construction sequencing.
(https://i.imgur.com/e26bkWm.png)
Quote from: Alex4897 on July 27, 2023, 11:12:09 AM
I'd imagine most of that money is going to go towards reconfiguring the western terminus of the lanes, since the rebuilt Hawthorne Lane overpass's center pier is smack in the middle of the EB bus lane. I remember driving by here a few times while I lived in the area and being baffled by the construction sequencing.
(https://i.imgur.com/e26bkWm.png)
Wow, I never noticed that - great eye!
Quote from: Alex4897 on July 27, 2023, 11:12:09 AM
Quote from: CanesFan27 on July 27, 2023, 10:50:00 AM
Charlotte's got a lot......of bus lanes reopening on Independence Blvd.
Charlotte transit leaders approve additional funds to reopen bus lanes on Independence Boulevard The project is expected to cost $1.3 million and restore access for buses and emergency vehicles to lanes closed since 2017.
https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/independence-boulevard-bus-lanes/275-4deb1483-00e5-4a0f-af14-30ba700fa9dd?fbclid=IwAR3CnALw-3CO5zRemUDj8zmpe-ZO4Akf06VbtV1nPFAf6StE72mFzNo4SZI_aem_AcR0q4QyTTj7KCAmC8w7POw2AIl6-k7VuOZWWJayoZ19_2ucUCtQ1QVx-Uxu7D_0G9c&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
I'd imagine most of that money is going to go towards reconfiguring the western terminus of the lanes, since the rebuilt Hawthorne Lane overpass's center pier is smack in the middle of the EB bus lane. I remember driving by here a few times while I lived in the area and being baffled by the construction sequencing.
(https://i.imgur.com/e26bkWm.png)
That is exactly what the money is being used for. In 2017, the City of Charlotte rebuilt the Hawthorne Lane Bridge for streetcars and literally caused the problem below it. They had hopped that NCDOT was going to move forward quickly with a proposed conversion of the bus lanes to express lanes within a few years, thus the state paying for it. But that has been pushed out several times now, leaving miles of unused bus lanes to become a real issue for the city. So yea, after years of hoping NCDOT would cover their mess, they are finally going to fix it themselves... kicking and screaming the whole while doing it to.
This was a mess they created, it serves them right to finally fix it.
When is the I-485 interchange with Weddington Rd supposed to be complete?
Quote from: chays on August 01, 2023, 04:04:52 PM
When is the I-485 interchange with Weddington Rd supposed to be complete?
My guess would be in about a year, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The 485 widening/express HOT lanes project seems to be dragging on forever.
The Charlotte Observer reports that "NC will spend $45M to speed up fix for one of state's 'most congested' interchanges (https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article281357878.html)" at I-485 and I-85 west of Charlotte.
"North Carolina House Speaker Tim Moore said he's allocating $45 million in House Contingency funds to accelerate the redesign of what he called one of the most congested interchanges in the state. The money will fund the design and construction of a revamped Interstate 85 and Interstate 485 interchange in western Mecklenburg County, near the Gaston County line and the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport With the money, the North Carolina Department of Transportation will start work on the project "no later than 2025," instead of waiting till at least 2033, said Moore[...]"
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on November 05, 2023, 10:27:28 AM
The Charlotte Observer reports that "NC will spend $45M to speed up fix for one of state's 'most congested' interchanges (https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article281357878.html)" at I-485 and I-85 west of Charlotte.
"North Carolina House Speaker Tim Moore said he's allocating $45 million in House Contingency funds to accelerate the redesign of what he called one of the most congested interchanges in the state. The money will fund the design and construction of a revamped Interstate 85 and Interstate 485 interchange in western Mecklenburg County, near the Gaston County line and the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport With the money, the North Carolina Department of Transportation will start work on the project "no later than 2025," instead of waiting till at least 2033, said Moore[...]"
Rebuild the Sam Wilson Rd overpass over I-85 to eliminate the piers on the outside shoulders (why the hell was it built this way in the first place?!?!), then make the merge from 485 to 85 south at least three lanes wide (possibly dropping the far right 85 south lane leading up to this merge). Lose two of those lanes gradually, going DOWNHILL. Add at least one lane to the Catawba River bridge. And eventually this will tie into tge upcoming expansion of 85 from three to four lanes in each direction between Belmont and US 321 in Gastonia.
What I described above will fix the biggest bottleneck. As for the merge from 85 to 485 outer loop, which is really only a morning bottleneck, I guess the merge lanes need to be extended out so far that the fifth lane drops at West Blvd and the fourth lane drops at Steele Creek Rd (NC 160).
Another big fix for this entire area would be another bridge over the Catawba River. It doesn't even need to be a freeway. Just extend West Blvd over to NC 273. That would shift a good chunk of local traffic away.
I belive the 8 laning of I-85 from 273 to 321 goes out to bid within the year.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on November 06, 2023, 08:44:48 PM
I belive the 8 laning of I-85 from 273 to 321 goes out to bid within the year.
It was supposed to be let next June, but it looks like it just got delayed to November 2024 (project I-5719).
TO ALLOW ADDITIONAL TIME FOR PLANNING AND DESIGN, DELAY RIGHT-OF-WAY FROM FY 24 TO FY 25 AND CONSTRUCTION FROM FY 24 TO FY 25.
https://www.ncdot.gov/about-us/board-offices/boards/board-transportation/Documents/ItemN_Handout.pdf
Looks like the NC 73 corridor from Denver through Huntersville to Concord is finally going to get some much needed attention!
https://news.yahoo.com/600-million-superhighway-ease-charlotte-170808614.html?mibextid=9R9pXO
It doesn't look like the project page is live yet, but there should be a public hearing coming up in February for the I-85/I-485 interchange improvements.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/Lists/ProjectsList/DispForm.aspx?ID=181
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on January 14, 2024, 12:01:30 PM
It doesn't look like the project page is live yet, but there should be a public hearing coming up in February for the I-85/I-485 interchange improvements.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/Lists/ProjectsList/DispForm.aspx?ID=181
The
project page (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-i-485-improvements/Pages/default.aspx) is now listed and maps are available. Interesting approach to maintain the existing Sam Wilson Rd. overpass.... I'm not sure how I feel about tying in the C/D lane to the ramp for the weigh station. Going to end up with some interesting weaves there. I still think they need to move the southbound weigh station to a less congested location and have the C/D lane continue as an auxiliary lane to Exit 27.
Map 1 (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-i-485-improvements/Documents/I-85-I-485-interchange-public-meeting-map-1.pdf)
Map 2 (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-i-485-improvements/Documents/I-85-I-485-interchange-public-meeting-map-2.pdf)
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on January 19, 2024, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on January 14, 2024, 12:01:30 PM
It doesn't look like the project page is live yet, but there should be a public hearing coming up in February for the I-85/I-485 interchange improvements.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/Lists/ProjectsList/DispForm.aspx?ID=181
The project page (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-i-485-improvements/Pages/default.aspx) is now listed and maps are available. Interesting approach to maintain the existing Sam Wilson Rd. overpass.... I'm not sure how I feel about tying in the C/D lane to the ramp for the weigh station. Going to end up with some interesting weaves there. I still think they need to move the southbound weigh station to a less congested location and have the C/D lane continue as an auxiliary lane to Exit 27.
Map 1 (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-i-485-improvements/Documents/I-85-I-485-interchange-public-meeting-map-1.pdf)
Map 2 (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-85-i-485-improvements/Documents/I-85-I-485-interchange-public-meeting-map-2.pdf)
Yeah no doubt, they should maybe move it to across from the newer NB scales just before US 74 near Bessemer City. And if they're worried about scale bypassing via US 321, they can put scales there too, or on I-40 west of Hickory.
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on January 14, 2024, 12:01:30 PM
It doesn't look like the project page is live yet, but there should be a public hearing coming up in February for the I-85/I-485 interchange improvements.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/Lists/ProjectsList/DispForm.aspx?ID=181
NCDOT press release:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-02-02-i-85-i-485-public-meeting.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-02-02-i-85-i-485-public-meeting.aspx)
McAuley Road may be the last dirt road in all of Mecklenburg County. The 1.5-mile road in the northern part of the county has recently been named a state Byway.
Travel down this road and you'll immediately forget the ongoing growth of the Northern Mecklenburg and Western Cabarrus suburbs. Over 700 acres of land along McAuley Road has also been preserved by the Catawba Lands Conservancy.
https://www.carolinaxroads.com/2024/02/mcauley-road.html
Bus lanes set to open soon on Independence Boulevard.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-03-01-us-74-bus-lanes.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-03-01-us-74-bus-lanes.aspx)
Quote from: LM117 on March 01, 2024, 06:59:42 PM
Bus lanes set to open soon on Independence Boulevard.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-03-01-us-74-bus-lanes.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-03-01-us-74-bus-lanes.aspx)
So that large gantry that they took down at the Albemarle Rd split and placed in the bus lanes will finally come back out? I wonder why it was taken down. One week it was up, the next it wasn't. Independence is part of my semi-regular commute whenever I work close to Uptown and stay at my regular hotel in Matthews.
Quote from: wriddle082 on March 01, 2024, 09:03:56 PM
Quote from: LM117 on March 01, 2024, 06:59:42 PM
Bus lanes set to open soon on Independence Boulevard.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-03-01-us-74-bus-lanes.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-03-01-us-74-bus-lanes.aspx)
So that large gantry that they took down at the Albemarle Rd split and placed in the bus lanes will finally come back out? I wonder why it was taken down. One week it was up, the next it wasn't. Independence is part of my semi-regular commute whenever I work close to Uptown and stay at my regular hotel in Matthews.
A fetal car accident was what took it down, a few weeks ago. It's been sitting in the bus lanes for a few weeks now. Construction has started on reopening the lanes.
Quote from: Third Strike on March 16, 2024, 08:09:36 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on March 01, 2024, 09:03:56 PM
Quote from: LM117 on March 01, 2024, 06:59:42 PM
Bus lanes set to open soon on Independence Boulevard.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-03-01-us-74-bus-lanes.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-03-01-us-74-bus-lanes.aspx)
So that large gantry that they took down at the Albemarle Rd split and placed in the bus lanes will finally come back out? I wonder why it was taken down. One week it was up, the next it wasn't. Independence is part of my semi-regular commute whenever I work close to Uptown and stay at my regular hotel in Matthews.
A fetal car accident was what took it down, a few weeks ago. It's been sitting in the bus lanes for a few weeks now. Construction has started on reopening the lanes.
I was hoping that wasn't the case, but I had a feeling that it might have been, considering how crazy everybody drives through there. Must have happened over a weekend, or maybe during one week when I happened to not be working in Charlotte.
I think Charlotte is trying to impress Tom958 with these APLs. (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10220246205985829&set=a.10220246332869001)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53678322837_9dce834db9_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53679184441_48e2da8091_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53678322817_5949b1a846_c.jpg)
^ Is the "Exit Only" signage necessary? I feel like it adds unnecessary spacing.
It is, but in the MUTCD figure the "exit only" panels are much closer to the arrows than they are on that sign.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on February 25, 2023, 06:47:41 AMQuote from: wriddle082 on February 24, 2023, 09:12:12 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on February 24, 2023, 09:03:55 AMI didn't notice this till last night, but there is a sign now for NC 84 east on Rea Road exit on I-485 (exit 59). I checked Google Streetview and it has been there at least since June 2022. That said, there are no signage on Rea Road identifying it as NC 84 nor does any mapping on NCDOT confirms it yet. Anyone have more information on this?
Rea Rd is going to be extended to the current western terminus of NC 84 at NC 16 in Weddington. Construction was going to start soon but I believe it's been pushed back a year or so. Either way, the contractor performing the I-485 widening in the area jumped the gun by putting up these BGSs showing NC 84 running along Rea Rd.
Right now construction is expected to begin in 2028 according to the NCDOT Project website (https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/rea-road-extension/Pages/default.aspx).
For me, this is an example of when I found out that I did my own research.
Anyway I did photograph the I-485 Outer signage when I did my clinching loop last weekend. (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10220253089037901&set=a.10220253093958024)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53683046574_db52b61403_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53683137010_b76eb4a22a_c.jpg)
Quote from: 74/171FAN on April 25, 2024, 10:40:08 PMI think Charlotte is trying to impress Tom958 with these APLs. (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10220246205985829&set=a.10220246332869001)
Ha, just saw this. Hey, the designers know what they're doing. Is there even one rogue APL in NC?
Quote from: Tom958 on May 02, 2024, 09:15:06 PMQuote from: 74/171FAN on April 25, 2024, 10:40:08 PMI think Charlotte is trying to impress Tom958 with these APLs. (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10220246205985829&set=a.10220246332869001)
Ha, just saw this. Hey, the designers know what they're doing. Is there even one rogue APL in NC?
They do exist. Here's just a few:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UuWxZ39H3JSNyPN36?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/i5UJS8wm4pA2uqPbA?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/AQgaVo4xEBdZhEMfA?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/y8PMM7LgETTRzuR19?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/n4NLXembxcvRc79JA?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bvimMPz6cuosXn2y5?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ugcCxzavU2y3MMd99?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/pAu3gbzHLa2Pyz3H7?g_st=ic
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tktM1k5UWHaQy2ok6?g_st=ic
NCDOT is holding a public meeting on July 23 to discuss proposed improvements to Independence Boulevard between I-277 and I-485.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-07-17-independence-boulevard-meeting.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2024/2024-07-17-independence-boulevard-meeting.aspx)
Some news covering various highway projects, including new express lanes in Charlotte: https://www.worldhighways.com/wh10/news/us346-million-charlotte-nc-highway-works
I wouldn't be surprised if the new southern toll lanes on I-77 are elevated, a la the Katy Freeway in Houston. That is because there isn't any free land to acquire like there was when the northern toll lanes were built.
Quote from: Henry on August 28, 2024, 09:55:48 PMI wouldn't be surprised if the new southern toll lanes on I-77 are elevated, a la the Katy Freeway in Houston. That is because there isn't any free land to acquire like there was when the northern toll lanes were built.
No, that would be even more expensive. They would be widen I-77 the normal way by removing the embankments and rebuilding of interchanges. There is always land available for roads.
Elevated lanes were reviewed in a feasibility study (https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/planning/FeasibilityStudiesDocuments/Feasibility-Study_0810A_Report_2015.pdf) completed in 2015. The elevated lanes option was more than twice as expensive as the other alternatives.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53958576228_cee4e06bfa_o.png)
https://thebharatexpressnews.com/the-charlotte-city-council-supports-exploring-new-toll-lanes-along-i-77-through-a-private-partnership/
A vote is coming up on whether the CRTPO continues the work to add toll lanes on the southern part of I-77 in the Charlotte area...
"If approved, the group will work with NCDOT to prioritize the plan over the next eight to 10 months before developers issue a request for bids. If the CRTPO votes against pursuing a public-private partnership, NCDOT has said the toll lane project would be put on hold indefinitely."
I guess something is better than nothing in terms of adding toll lanes to I-77 from SC to Charlotte.
One of the I-277 exits is notoriously bad enough to have a video game based on it:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/this-interstate-exit-is-so-dangerous-its-getting-its-own-video-game
Then again, it looks like at least half of the exits are like this, although the one depicted here gets the spotlight all to itself.
Quote from: Henry on February 24, 2025, 09:02:24 PMOne of the I-277 exits is notoriously bad enough to have a video game based on it:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/this-interstate-exit-is-so-dangerous-its-getting-its-own-video-game
Then again, it looks like at least half of the exits are like this, although the one depicted here gets the spotlight all to itself.
This one is particularly bad because N. Davidson St. leads to NoDa, a notable hipster enclave and general "it" part of town that's home to a locally popular microbrewery. And the I-277 traffic trying to get to that exit has to cross traffic merging in from US 74 Independence Freeway, the primary inbound freeway for the entire southeast side of town.
If i need to get to NoDa from 74 west, I just exit at Charlottetowne Ave, turn right on 7th, then right on N Davidson. Avoids that entire mess of an interchange.
https://www.wfae.org/charlotte-area/2025-04-04/i-485-toll-lanes-delayed-again
The toll lanes along I-485 has been delayed again to "late-summer, 2025"...
It was supposed to be completed in 2022!
Also... Independence tolls pushed back, too
The delay comes as NCDOT is also anticipating pushing back plans to add toll lanes on Independence Boulevard:
Widening Independence between Idlewild Road and I-485 to add toll lanes was expected to start in 2027, but the latest draft of the state's road-building plan now lists that project as "not funded."
Converting the bus lanes on Independence between I-277 and Idlewild Road, a project that was expected to start in 2029, is now expected to start in 2033, according to the draft plan.
Many state road projects are being pushed back as the state grapples with rising costs.
"We've seen substantial cost estimate increases in the last few years, mainly due to inflation, improvements to cost estimating processes and project scope changes," Hodges said in the email.
US1 North of Raleigh is still only 4 lanes. It can take 45min-1hr. to travel 10 miles with 10-14 traffic lights.
This highway's improvements have been delayed until 2030 to begin construction.
They said costs have risen 67% for highway construction in the last 7-8 years. This project was estimated initially to cost $350 million. Now the price has risen to $1.3B and therefore it won't be finished for another 10 years.
But I-85 between Charlotte and Gastonia is getting another lane in each direction and that project begins this year 2025.
Quote from: architect77 on April 06, 2025, 03:38:33 PMUS1 North of Raleigh is still only 4 lanes. It can take 45min-1hr. to travel 10 miles with 10-14 traffic lights.
This highway's improvements have been delayed until 2030 to begin construction.
They said costs have risen 67% for highway construction in the last 7-8 years. This project was estimated initially to cost $350 million. Now the price has risen to $1.3B and therefore it won't be finished for another 10 years.
But I-85 between Charlotte and Gastonia is getting another lane in each direction and that project begins this year 2025.
I-85 is the busiest road in the state by a long shot. Of course it is getting priority.
Actually I thought I-40 near RDU and I-77 through Charlotte had the highest traffic counts. I-85 is very nice, but I've never seen the section between I-485 towards Gastonia regularly grind to a halt like US1 does all day, everyday.
This I-85 project will begin with an easy short section and the rest through Gastonia will take longer as 2 railroad overpasses have to be rebuilt and the railroads are super slow to work with.
Also I-85 is still only 4 lanes between Hillsborough and Efland for 8 miles which is a real bottleneck for the deluxe I-85. No one cares about the 4-lane section to the VA border which is 40 miles or so.
I think making the transitions from I-485 either direction (especially the inner loop) to I-85 south are the biggest bottleneck, as lots of commuters from Gaston County commute to/from warehouse and other light industrial jobs in the Steele Creek and Ayrsley areas (not to mention all of the trucks heading to/from those same warehouses). I'm not sure if they've tried temporarily dropping the rightmost lane of I-85 south just before the I-485 traffic merges in so it can seamlessly flow on, but sometimes trucks have a difficult time going up the hill through the ramp merges. Then a couple of miles later that fourth lane drops at the NC 273 Belmont exit, going up a hill, so slow trucks end up changing lanes and slowing up traffic more.
If they had gone ahead with the "Garden Parkway" project or something else that provides another Catawba River crossing between Wilkinson Blvd. and NC 49, it likely would have relieved the commuter traffic a good bit. I don't believe that proposal is completely off the table, but for now it's on hold.
News report that the project to widen I-85 to 8 lanes from Exit 23 to 27 was awarded yesterday. I watched the project delayed a good 15 times at the NCDot contract letting page and at one point was going to go south to exit 17. But the price of the larger project jumped a good 40% to past 1 bil.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on July 23, 2025, 08:23:43 PMNews report that the project to widen I-85 to 8 lanes from Exit 23 to 27 was awarded yesterday. I watched the project delayed a good 15 times at the NCDot contract letting page and at one point was going to go south to exit 17. But the price of the larger project jumped a good 40% to past 1 bil.
Lucky you are. US1 in Raleigh which is only 4 lanes has had it's widening delayed until after 2031, along with 9 other Triangle road projects now scheduled for 2031-2035.
Quote from: architect77 on July 27, 2025, 03:38:33 AMQuote from: ARMOURERERIC on July 23, 2025, 08:23:43 PMNews report that the project to widen I-85 to 8 lanes from Exit 23 to 27 was awarded yesterday. I watched the project delayed a good 15 times at the NCDot contract letting page and at one point was going to go south to exit 17. But the price of the larger project jumped a good 40% to past 1 bil.
Lucky you are. US1 in Raleigh which is only 4 lanes has had it's widening delayed until after 2031, along with 9 other Triangle road projects now scheduled for 2031-2035.
US-1 being four or even six lanes isn't the biggest issue, the biggest issue is the lack of controlled access and the abundance of traffic signals. The project will convert several miles into a six lane controlled access freeway.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 27, 2025, 12:42:19 PMQuote from: architect77 on July 27, 2025, 03:38:33 AMQuote from: ARMOURERERIC on July 23, 2025, 08:23:43 PMNews report that the project to widen I-85 to 8 lanes from Exit 23 to 27 was awarded yesterday. I watched the project delayed a good 15 times at the NCDot contract letting page and at one point was going to go south to exit 17. But the price of the larger project jumped a good 40% to past 1 bil.
Lucky you are. US1 in Raleigh which is only 4 lanes has had it's widening delayed until after 2031, along with 9 other Triangle road projects now scheduled for 2031-2035.
US-1 being four or even six lanes isn't the biggest issue, the biggest issue is the lack of controlled access and the abundance of traffic signals. The project will convert several miles into a six lane controlled access freeway.
Did that help Independence Blvd in Charlotte?
I think adding a 3rd lane up to the Franklin Co. line and converting some of the intersections to reduced conflict design would greatly benefit US 1 more than anything.
The limited access conversion will at most only result in 3-5 miles of freeway-like conditions and most of the project involves grade separations at 3 intersections and adding some access streets for businesses that lose direct access. The original estimate of $400 million is now $1.3 billion for all of that earthwork to raise US1 over 3 intersections.
Even doing nothing but removing a few of the less important signaled intersections would greatly help. The Town of Wake Forest is now so big and Franklin Co. growing with residential at a fast clip that the 4 lanes can't handle the volume and it is just painful during much of the day.
The delayed start for US1 is now 2031-2035.
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5718-2025-10-17.aspx
Two public meetings on the I-77 "South" project in Charlotte to add 2 express lanes in each direction.
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 08, 2025, 08:41:59 PMhttps://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5718-2025-10-17.aspx
Two public meetings on the I-77 "South" project in Charlotte to add 2 express lanes in each direction.
It's going to be interesting how this new set of express lanes will tie into the existing ones to the north. I'd expect new lights, rebuilt overpasses and retaining walls where there once were none, and probably a direct connection to the I-485 express lanes as well. IOW, I-77 through the city is going to look totally different in 10 years!
Apparently, the 1% Mecklenburg transportation sales tax has passed. Estimates are $19bil over 30 years, 40% roads, 40% mass rail transit, 20% bus transit. Only the red line to Mooresville is mandated. Wonder if it was legal, or even contemplated for Gaston County to go in with this. I wonder if this reduces any forward going NCDot obligations that can be redirected elsewhere in the state.
There are project maps for the public meetings. Will potentially have elevated and stacked lanes. Appears to tie in to the existing express lanes on 77 and 485.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-77-south-express-lanes/Pages/project-maps.aspx
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54920641975_ee206b28e6_b.jpg)
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on November 12, 2025, 07:41:34 PMApparently, the 1% Mecklenburg transportation sales tax has passed. Estimates are $19bil over 30 years, 40% roads, 40% mass rail transit, 20% bus transit. Only the red line to Mooresville is mandated. Wonder if it was legal, or even contemplated for Gaston County to go in with this. I wonder if this reduces any forward going NCDot obligations that can be redirected elsewhere in the state.
The state will probably not reduce normal allocation of funds to Charlotte's division because this funding is generated slowly over many years. It will be several years before 40% of what's collected becomes a substantial amount anyway, NCDOT is so underfunded now that their cost-cutting across the state is ruining the legacy of having better highway standards. Raleigh's Beltline improvement finally redoing the last 4-lane section left dating to the 1960s, is building the cheapest looking overpass with too skinny columns and beams, and all of the signage is half the normal size. It screams' cutting corners to save money. I'm angry.
Quote from: architect77 on November 16, 2025, 12:25:01 AMQuote from: ARMOURERERIC on November 12, 2025, 07:41:34 PMApparently, the 1% Mecklenburg transportation sales tax has passed. Estimates are $19bil over 30 years, 40% roads, 40% mass rail transit, 20% bus transit. Only the red line to Mooresville is mandated. Wonder if it was legal, or even contemplated for Gaston County to go in with this. I wonder if this reduces any forward going NCDot obligations that can be redirected elsewhere in the state.
The state will probably not reduce normal allocation of funds to Charlotte's division because this funding is generated slowly over many years. It will be several years before 40% of what's collected becomes a substantial amount anyway, NCDOT is so underfunded now that their cost-cutting across the state is ruining the legacy of having better highway standards. Raleigh's Beltline improvement finally redoing the last 4-lane section left dating to the 1960s, is building the cheapest looking overpass with too skinny columns and beams, and all of the signage is half the normal size. It screams' cutting corners to save money. I'm angry.
What do you think the effect of the skinny supports will be?
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on November 12, 2025, 09:10:51 PMThere are project maps for the public meetings. Will potentially have elevated and stacked lanes. Appears to tie in to the existing express lanes on 77 and 485.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-77-south-express-lanes/Pages/project-maps.aspx
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54920641975_ee206b28e6_b.jpg)
No issue with the Express Lanes here, but the mainline should certainly be widened to 4 lanes in each direction at minimum.
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelm on November 12, 2025, 09:10:51 PMThere are project maps for the public meetings. Will potentially have elevated and stacked lanes. Appears to tie in to the existing express lanes on 77 and 485.
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-77-south-express-lanes/Pages/project-maps.aspx
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54920641975_ee206b28e6_b.jpg)
It's worth noting that having elevated express lanes closer to Downtown is simply one alternative. The other alternative adds surface level express lanes, like the rest. The surface level one actually appears to reconstruct the whole freeway and modernize the interchanges near Downtown, whereas the elevated ones just go on top of the existing lanes and interchanges with relatively no improvements.
I would favor the surface level ones here, IMO. Not sure about costs though, but I can't imagine the elevated are cheap either.
Quote from: Henry on November 11, 2025, 09:47:38 PMQuote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 08, 2025, 08:41:59 PMhttps://www.ncdot.gov/news/public-meetings/Pages/I-5718-2025-10-17.aspx
Two public meetings on the I-77 "South" project in Charlotte to add 2 express lanes in each direction.
It's going to be interesting how this new set of express lanes will tie into the existing ones to the north. I'd expect new lights, rebuilt overpasses and retaining walls where there once were none, and probably a direct connection to the I-485 express lanes as well. IOW, I-77 through the city is going to look totally different in 10 years!
See the above public meeting maps, they paint a good picture.
Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2025, 08:08:31 AMQuote from: architect77 on November 16, 2025, 12:25:01 AMQuote from: ARMOURERERIC on November 12, 2025, 07:41:34 PMApparently, the 1% Mecklenburg transportation sales tax has passed. Estimates are $19bil over 30 years, 40% roads, 40% mass rail transit, 20% bus transit. Only the red line to Mooresville is mandated. Wonder if it was legal, or even contemplated for Gaston County to go in with this. I wonder if this reduces any forward going NCDot obligations that can be redirected elsewhere in the state.
The state will probably not reduce normal allocation of funds to Charlotte's division because this funding is generated slowly over many years. It will be several years before 40% of what's collected becomes a substantial amount anyway, NCDOT is so underfunded now that their cost-cutting across the state is ruining the legacy of having better highway standards. Raleigh's Beltline improvement finally redoing the last 4-lane section left dating to the 1960s, is building the cheapest looking overpass with too skinny columns and beams, and all of the signage is half the normal size. It screams' cutting corners to save money. I'm angry.
What do you think the effect of the skinny supports will be?
I doubt the skinny supports will collapse, but there is a point at which they become visually unappealing.
Just like NC used to build flyovers with all custom curved exposed steel beams that were a single swooping curve, beautiful, and now they are mixing in precast concrete beams and the curved steel is only where it has to be curved, ruining the overall monolithic quality of the flyover.
Quote from: architect77 on November 19, 2025, 03:38:40 PMQuote from: Rothman on November 16, 2025, 08:08:31 AMQuote from: architect77 on November 16, 2025, 12:25:01 AMQuote from: ARMOURERERIC on November 12, 2025, 07:41:34 PMApparently, the 1% Mecklenburg transportation sales tax has passed. Estimates are $19bil over 30 years, 40% roads, 40% mass rail transit, 20% bus transit. Only the red line to Mooresville is mandated. Wonder if it was legal, or even contemplated for Gaston County to go in with this. I wonder if this reduces any forward going NCDot obligations that can be redirected elsewhere in the state.
The state will probably not reduce normal allocation of funds to Charlotte's division because this funding is generated slowly over many years. It will be several years before 40% of what's collected becomes a substantial amount anyway, NCDOT is so underfunded now that their cost-cutting across the state is ruining the legacy of having better highway standards. Raleigh's Beltline improvement finally redoing the last 4-lane section left dating to the 1960s, is building the cheapest looking overpass with too skinny columns and beams, and all of the signage is half the normal size. It screams' cutting corners to save money. I'm angry.
What do you think the effect of the skinny supports will be?
I doubt the skinny supports will collapse, but there is a point at which they become visually unappealing.
Just like NC used to build flyovers with all custom curved exposed steel beams that were a single swooping curve, beautiful, and now they are mixing in precast concrete beams and the curved steel is only where it has to be curved, ruining the overall monolithic quality of the flyover.
It's just a matter of aesthetics?
There are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).
https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 25, 2025, 12:48:15 AMThere are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).
https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html
I think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.
Quote from: chrisdiaz on November 25, 2025, 07:55:06 AMQuote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 25, 2025, 12:48:15 AMThere are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).
https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html
I think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.
I think they're just gonna have to conform and upgrade the I-185 Palmetto Pass system to something compatible with EZPass. That's probably how we'll ultimately get I-73 built to Myrtle Beach at this point, via tolls.
But it's way too early to tell right now what will happen.
Quote from: chrisdiaz on November 25, 2025, 07:55:06 AMQuote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 25, 2025, 12:48:15 AMThere are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).
https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html
I think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.
From what I have heard, and take that with a grain of salt, NCDOT wants to build the extension to Gold Hill Road and will manage it too, meaning using the NC Quickpass. Obviously this would require the state legislators to pass some law allowing it to happen, so we will see.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 17, 2025, 08:36:54 AMQuote from: chrisdiaz on November 25, 2025, 07:55:06 AMQuote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 25, 2025, 12:48:15 AMThere are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).
https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html
I think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.
From what I have heard, and take that with a grain of salt, NCDOT wants to build the extension to Gold Hill Road and will manage it too, meaning using the NC Quickpass. Obviously this would require the state legislators to pass some law allowing it to happen, so we will see.
That might pose some interesting questions. Like if South Carolina agreed to letting NCDOT build / maintain HOT lanes in South Carolina, does that give Cintas (or whomever) essentially a back door into South Carolina?
Would North and South Carolina have to create a quasi-governmental agency like PANYNJ?
I would think SC might feel that this would be forced upon them as they didn't enter into the agreement like NC did with Cintas.
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 25, 2025, 12:48:15 AMThere are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).
https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html
Quote from: chrisdiaz on November 25, 2025, 07:55:06 AMI think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 17, 2025, 08:36:54 AMFrom what I have heard, and take that with a grain of salt, NCDOT wants to build the extension to Gold Hill Road and will manage it too, meaning using the NC Quickpass. Obviously this would require the state legislators to pass some law allowing it to happen, so we will see.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on December 17, 2025, 01:17:53 PMThat might pose some interesting questions. Like if South Carolina agreed to letting NCDOT build / maintain HOT lanes in South Carolina, does that give Cintas (or whomever) essentially a back door into South Carolina?
Would North and South Carolina have to create a quasi-governmental agency like PANYNJ?
I would think SC might feel that this would be forced upon them as they didn't enter into the agreement like NC did with Cintas.
Cintas could still set up the tolling facility on the North Carolina side of the line (just like Carowinds has the park entrance on the South Carolina side). :pan:
Quote from: Dirt Roads on December 17, 2025, 06:13:29 PMQuote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 25, 2025, 12:48:15 AMThere are now talks about extending the express lanes (or adding another GP lane) on I-77 into South Carolina. It would go from I-485 in NC to exit 88 (Gold Hill Road) in SC (a three-mile extension).
https://www.heraldonline.com/news/business/article313034423.html
Quote from: chrisdiaz on November 25, 2025, 07:55:06 AMI think this begs a question that I haven't seen anybody else asking about; what happens with the toll transponder situation should the express lanes cross into SC? We only have one toll road in the state, and it uses its own proprietary toll transponder. Would the 77 express lanes use the Palmetto Pass, meaning that you have to have two different transponders in order to use the lanes across state lines, or would it continue to use the QuickPass, which is North Carolina's toll transponder, meaning that the two toll roads would each use their own transponder? It's an interesting situation nonetheless.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 17, 2025, 08:36:54 AMFrom what I have heard, and take that with a grain of salt, NCDOT wants to build the extension to Gold Hill Road and will manage it too, meaning using the NC Quickpass. Obviously this would require the state legislators to pass some law allowing it to happen, so we will see.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on December 17, 2025, 01:17:53 PMThat might pose some interesting questions. Like if South Carolina agreed to letting NCDOT build / maintain HOT lanes in South Carolina, does that give Cintas (or whomever) essentially a back door into South Carolina?
Would North and South Carolina have to create a quasi-governmental agency like PANYNJ?
I would think SC might feel that this would be forced upon them as they didn't enter into the agreement like NC did with Cintas.
Cintas could still set up the tolling facility on the North Carolina side of the line (just like Carowinds has the park entrance on the South Carolina side). :pan:
That's what I was thinking, they could just have the first/last toll gantry just north of the state line, but continue the lanes into SC for the next little bit with no other entrances/exits
Is there precedent for one state widening another states' highways? Outside of geographical constraints?
This wouldn't be the same as a highway dipping into another state, like I-86 (NY/PA) and I-684 (NY/CT), but North Carolina widening I-77 because North Carolina wanted it.
i don't think SC would be very open to that idea. What do they stand to gain from this? I-77 is the rare example of a SC road being of higher quality than a NC road. the interstate widens out to 8 lanes immediately south of the border, and stays that way for about 13 miles to exit 77. so why should SC need any further upgrades? Plus, there is no median space for the express lanes, so they would have to expand the right-of-way to accommodate.
Quote from: fillup420 on December 18, 2025, 05:15:48 PMi don't think SC would be very open to that idea. What do they stand to gain from this? I-77 is the rare example of a SC road being of higher quality than a NC road. the interstate widens out to 8 lanes immediately south of the border, and stays that way for about 13 miles to exit 77. so why should SC need any further upgrades? Plus, there is no median space for the express lanes, so they would have to expand the right-of-way to accommodate.
That would be an interesting question, too. If NCDOT (State A) wanted to build and pay for the express lanes, would that mean NCDOT would be acquiring right-of-way for SCDOT (State B)? What would that mean if they had to condemn properties?
It's an interesting hypothetical question regarding state sovereignty, probably involving the Interstate commerce clause, and other Constitutional issues
Quote from: fillup420 on December 18, 2025, 05:15:48 PMI-77 is the rare example of a SC road being of higher quality than a NC road. the interstate widens out to 8 lanes immediately south of the border, and stays that way for about 13 miles to exit 77.
South Carolina doesn't do it much, but I can think another instance, this one much more recently. I-85 now widens to 6 lanes at the state line, and it seems SCDOT has finally completed what felt like a decade-long 6 lane widening between Spartansburg and the NC line.
When is NCDOT going to widen the approximately 10 miles between US-74 and the SC line?
Whether you want to believe it or not, NCDOT says the I-485 Express lanes are to open in February:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/26-01-06-i-485-express-lanes-near-completion.aspx
Quote from: bob7374 on January 06, 2026, 06:05:58 PMWhether you want to believe it or not, NCDOT says the I-485 Express lanes are to open in February:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/26-01-06-i-485-express-lanes-near-completion.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/26-01-06-i-485-express-lanes-near-completion.aspx)
Yeah I'll believe it when I see it. I think there was a bit of bridge work left to finish up in Matthews and the express exit in Ballantyne still looked like a mess when I last saw it about a month ago. I think it's close to ready from Ballantyne to I-77.
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 19, 2025, 10:43:32 AMQuote from: fillup420 on December 18, 2025, 05:15:48 PMI-77 is the rare example of a SC road being of higher quality than a NC road. the interstate widens out to 8 lanes immediately south of the border, and stays that way for about 13 miles to exit 77.
South Carolina doesn't do it much, but I can think another instance, this one much more recently. I-85 now widens to 6 lanes at the state line, and it seems SCDOT has finally completed what felt like a decade-long 6 lane widening between Spartansburg and the NC line.
When is NCDOT going to widen the approximately 10 miles between US-74 and the SC line?
Also in the Charlotte area, two lane NC 160 (Steele Creek Rd) widens to four lanes with a center left turn lane after crossing into SC and becoming SC 160. NCDOT supposedly has widening Steele Creek Rd. in their plans, but nothing has started yet.
Quote from: bob7374 on January 06, 2026, 06:05:58 PMWhether you want to believe it or not, NCDOT says the I-485 Express lanes are to open in February:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/26-01-06-i-485-express-lanes-near-completion.aspx
The North Carolina Turnpike Authority has created a new page (https://www.ncquickpass.com/i485/) for the I-485 Express Lanes; and bonus, here is the toll rate chart (https://www.ncquickpass.com/app/uploads/2026/01/I-485-Express-Lanes-Time-of-Day-Toll-Rates.pdf) for the first year. Enjoy!
I have updated the I-485 Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_485) regarding the Express Lanes and I even gave my toll estimates of the minimum/maximum for inner-bound and outer-bound. Feel free to make corrections.
Any idea as to how the I-485 Express Lanes will connect to those on I-77? (the upcoming extension to the south, not the existing part to the north)
Quote from: Henry on January 07, 2026, 12:00:12 AMAny idea as to how the I-485 Express Lanes will connect to those on I-77? (the upcoming extension to the south, not the existing part to the north)
It is in the proposed I-77 express lanes project, here's the link: https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/i-77-south-express-lanes/Pages/project-maps.aspx
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 19, 2025, 10:43:32 AMQuote from: fillup420 on December 18, 2025, 05:15:48 PMI-77 is the rare example of a SC road being of higher quality than a NC road. the interstate widens out to 8 lanes immediately south of the border, and stays that way for about 13 miles to exit 77.
South Carolina doesn't do it much, but I can think another instance, this one much more recently. I-85 now widens to 6 lanes at the state line, and it seems SCDOT has finally completed what felt like a decade-long 6 lane widening between Spartansburg and the NC line.
When is NCDOT going to widen the approximately 10 miles between US-74 and the SC line?
I would think that it will be at least 15 years before the final 10 miles of I-85 is widened to 6 lanes due to dozens of projects across the state that are far more urgent currently being delayed until 2031-2035. The Triangle had 9 improvement projects delayed for 7 years or longer this year as construction costs have risen 67% since 2018.
But I-85 will get another lane added in each direction between Charlotte and Gastonia starting this year. The first section is closer to Charlotte, and the 2nd section will begin after a couple of new overpasses are constructed over I-85, one being a railroad track. Working with the privately owned railroad companies is notoriously slow and a pain.
For I-85 there is a huge bottle neck of 8 miles of only 4 lanes between Durham and the merge with I-40 at Mebane that affects NC residents more than the Kings Mountain stretch. Most states put the final stretches of roadway at state lines lower on the priority list. Of course I-77 shouldn't and won't be de prioritized but I-85 at SC line a little less pertinent to NC gas tax payers and also over 50 miles of I-85 from the VA line to Durham is very old and still just 4 lanes with a lot of traffic volume with no plans for improvement that I know of.
Quote from: architect77 on January 08, 2026, 11:53:44 AMQuote from: sprjus4 on December 19, 2025, 10:43:32 AMQuote from: fillup420 on December 18, 2025, 05:15:48 PMI-77 is the rare example of a SC road being of higher quality than a NC road. the interstate widens out to 8 lanes immediately south of the border, and stays that way for about 13 miles to exit 77.
South Carolina doesn't do it much, but I can think another instance, this one much more recently. I-85 now widens to 6 lanes at the state line, and it seems SCDOT has finally completed what felt like a decade-long 6 lane widening between Spartansburg and the NC line.
When is NCDOT going to widen the approximately 10 miles between US-74 and the SC line?
I would think that it will be at least 15 years before the final 10 miles of I-85 is widened to 6 lanes due to dozens of projects across the state that are far more urgent currently being delayed until 2031-2035. The Triangle had 9 improvement projects delayed for 7 years or longer this year as construction costs have risen 67% since 2018.
But I-85 will get another lane added in each direction between Charlotte and Gastonia starting this year. The first section is closer to Charlotte, and the 2nd section will begin after a couple of new overpasses are constructed over I-85, one being a railroad track. Working with the privately owned railroad companies is notoriously slow and a pain.
For I-85 there is a huge bottle neck of 8 miles of only 4 lanes between Durham and the merge with I-40 at Mebane that affects NC residents more than the Kings Mountain stretch. Most states put the final stretches of roadway at state lines lower on the priority list. Of course I-77 shouldn't and won't be de prioritized but I-85 at SC line a little less pertinent to NC gas tax payers and also over 50 miles of I-85 from the VA line to Durham is very old and still just 4 lanes with a lot of traffic volume with no plans for improvement that I know of.
The section(s) of I-85 between the VA line and the Durham county line were rebuilt (in sections) over the past few years, and are not in need of any improvement. The section between Butner and US 70 are in need of improvements; I believe there's a SPOT project submitted but don't know the status other than it's currently unfunded.
IIRC the section between US 321 and US 74 in Gaston County are a higher priority than the last ten miles between US 74 and the SC state line. I expect the projects to go from north to south (as the highway is labeled.) I'm sure the cap on corridor spending will push those last two sections out further.
Quote from: architect77 on January 08, 2026, 11:53:44 AMFor I-85 there is a huge bottle neck of 8 miles of only 4 lanes between Durham and the merge with I-40 at Mebane that affects NC residents more than the Kings Mountain stretch. Most states put the final stretches of roadway at state lines lower on the priority list. Of course I-77 shouldn't and won't be de prioritized but I-85 at SC line a little less pertinent to NC gas tax payers and also over 50 miles of I-85 from the VA line to Durham is very old and still just 4 lanes with a lot of traffic volume with no plans for improvement that I know of.
Quote from: jdunlop on January 08, 2026, 04:40:50 PMThe section(s) of I-85 between the VA line and the Durham county line were rebuilt (in sections) over the past few years, and are not in need of any improvement. The section between Butner and US 70 are in need of improvements; I believe there's a SPOT project submitted but don't know the status other than it's currently unfunded.
<architect77> is referring to the widening of I-85 in Orange County (between Durham -and- Hillsborough). That section has been in the Top 5 of STIP for much of the past 27 years or so, but it constantly gets bumped for higher priority projects in Raleigh and Charlotte. Moreover, the I-40 widening in Orange County (Chapel Hill -to- Hillsborough) had worked its way up higher in the priority list over. Much of the dynamics for I-40 versus I-85 were related to the long-term impact of the East End Connector (I-885), which effectively cut off the utilization of the Durham Freeway as the best route to RTP from the west (as it was 20 years ago).
All said and done, widening of I-85 [west] of Charlotte is probably a higher priority (as validated by the STIP).
Weddington Road interchange on I-485 is now open.
https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/new-i-485-interchange-will-open-jan-9-2026/275-9fb09213-ddc2-45a1-b4fb-3c87e43f5257 (https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/new-i-485-interchange-will-open-jan-9-2026/275-9fb09213-ddc2-45a1-b4fb-3c87e43f5257)
Quote from: WashuOtaku on January 09, 2026, 01:01:27 PMWeddington Road interchange on I-485 is now open.
https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/new-i-485-interchange-will-open-jan-9-2026/275-9fb09213-ddc2-45a1-b4fb-3c87e43f5257 (https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/new-i-485-interchange-will-open-jan-9-2026/275-9fb09213-ddc2-45a1-b4fb-3c87e43f5257)
This may provide some relief to the Providence Rd interchange, but I guess we'll see. I think the area around this new interchange is already pretty well developed residentially, so not sure how much new growth/sprawl will end up happening.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 08, 2026, 09:19:28 PMQuote from: architect77 on January 08, 2026, 11:53:44 AMFor I-85 there is a huge bottle neck of 8 miles of only 4 lanes between Durham and the merge with I-40 at Mebane that affects NC residents more than the Kings Mountain stretch. Most states put the final stretches of roadway at state lines lower on the priority list. Of course I-77 shouldn't and won't be de prioritized but I-85 at SC line a little less pertinent to NC gas tax payers and also over 50 miles of I-85 from the VA line to Durham is very old and still just 4 lanes with a lot of traffic volume with no plans for improvement that I know of.
Quote from: jdunlop on January 08, 2026, 04:40:50 PMThe section(s) of I-85 between the VA line and the Durham county line were rebuilt (in sections) over the past few years, and are not in need of any improvement. The section between Butner and US 70 are in need of improvements; I believe there's a SPOT project submitted but don't know the status other than it's currently unfunded.
<architect77> is referring to the widening of I-85 in Orange County (between Durham -and- Hillsborough). That section has been in the Top 5 of STIP for much of the past 27 years or so, but it constantly gets bumped for higher priority projects in Raleigh and Charlotte. Moreover, the I-40 widening in Orange County (Chapel Hill -to- Hillsborough) had worked its way up higher in the priority list over. Much of the dynamics for I-40 versus I-85 were related to the long-term impact of the East End Connector (I-885), which effectively cut off the utilization of the Durham Freeway as the best route to RTP from the west (as it was 20 years ago).
All said and done, widening of I-85 [west] of Charlotte is probably a higher priority (as validated by the STIP).
While he mainly talked about Gastonia and the eight miles in Orange County, he said that the 50 miles from The VA 'line to Durham was old and in need, and I was correcting the status of that section.
The Orange County section in question is/was project I-0305; the Alamance section (to new I-85) was I-0304, completed in the mid-'90s, and the Durham section completed mid-2000s was I-0306. Even longer than the 27 years you said! Likewise, the I-40 section that's currently under construction was supposed to be done right after the Durham section was widened (up to 15-501). Money and politics (from the notoriously anti-car Durham-Orange MPO) delayed both sections, as well as the badly needed widening of NC 147 (now I-885).
I think a sub-section of I-0305 from the Durham line to US 70 is funded and supposed to start relatively soon although I haven't checked the status lately. That would help a lot, as that exit draws off about 12K AADT. (AADT on 85 goes from roughly 65K to 55K there. 55K is reasonably manageable for a four-lane freeway.
Quote from: jdunlop on January 10, 2026, 10:38:04 PMI think a sub-section of I-0305 from the Durham line to US 70 is funded and supposed to start relatively soon although I haven't checked the status lately. That would help a lot, as that exit draws off about 12K AADT. (AADT on 85 goes from roughly 65K to 55K there. 55K is reasonably manageable for a four-lane freeway.
man i hope so. The bottleneck just "south" of the NC 147 junction is among the worst i have ever encountered. 5 lanes go down to 2 in a just under 1 mile. it creates a nightmare every weekday afternoon, as well as after big DPAC events or Bulls games.
Durham county just rehabbed the pavement from the county line to exit 173. I have always thought extending the third lane to exit 170 (US 70) would solve most of the issue. But realistically, 85 needs 3 lanes each way to the I-40 junction. Which should've been done 20 years ago.
NCDOT announcing Express Lane project related ramp closures on I-485 next week for overhead sign installation:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-01-13-i-485-ramp-closures.aspx
Quote from: WashuOtaku on January 09, 2026, 01:01:27 PMWeddington Road interchange on I-485 is now open.
https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/new-i-485-interchange-will-open-jan-9-2026/275-9fb09213-ddc2-45a1-b4fb-3c87e43f5257 (https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/new-i-485-interchange-will-open-jan-9-2026/275-9fb09213-ddc2-45a1-b4fb-3c87e43f5257)
Anybody know the exit number for it yet?
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on January 14, 2026, 10:08:43 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on January 09, 2026, 01:01:27 PMWeddington Road interchange on I-485 is now open.
https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/new-i-485-interchange-will-open-jan-9-2026/275-9fb09213-ddc2-45a1-b4fb-3c87e43f5257 (https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/new-i-485-interchange-will-open-jan-9-2026/275-9fb09213-ddc2-45a1-b4fb-3c87e43f5257)
Anybody know the exit number for it yet?
According to Wikipedia, it's Exit 54.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on January 09, 2026, 01:01:27 PMWeddington Road interchange on I-485 is now open.
I always wondered why there wasn't an interchange there to begin with. I grew up in the area, and getting to 485 from, for example, the YMCA right next to the new ramps, was a huge pain for either direction. I know lots of folks were unhappy about the new interchange, but i think those feelings will change once they realize how easy it is to access 485 now.
Quote from: fillup420 on January 15, 2026, 02:18:24 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on January 09, 2026, 01:01:27 PMWeddington Road interchange on I-485 is now open.
I always wondered why there wasn't an interchange there to begin with. I grew up in the area, and getting to 485 from, for example, the YMCA right next to the new ramps, was a huge pain for either direction. I know lots of folks were unhappy about the new interchange, but i think those feelings will change once they realize how easy it is to access 485 now.
Charlotte/Mecklenburg MPO asked NCDOT to delay building the interchange in order to reduce the immediate growth in the area. Did the same on the other side of 485, at Oakdale. They knew there'd be plenty of growth at the other interchanges, so tried to spread it out a bit. Not sure it really worked, though.
Quote from: jdunlop on January 15, 2026, 03:42:01 PMQuote from: fillup420 on January 15, 2026, 02:18:24 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on January 09, 2026, 01:01:27 PMWeddington Road interchange on I-485 is now open.
I always wondered why there wasn't an interchange there to begin with. I grew up in the area, and getting to 485 from, for example, the YMCA right next to the new ramps, was a huge pain for either direction. I know lots of folks were unhappy about the new interchange, but i think those feelings will change once they realize how easy it is to access 485 now.
Charlotte/Mecklenburg MPO asked NCDOT to delay building the interchange in order to reduce the immediate growth in the area. Did the same on the other side of 485, at Oakdale. They knew there'd be plenty of growth at the other interchanges, so tried to spread it out a bit. Not sure it really worked, though.
I would have liked to have seen how that played out at the MPO table, where they only have some control over in which FFY the construction funds are authorized.
Quote from: Rothman on January 15, 2026, 04:17:57 PMQuote from: jdunlop on January 15, 2026, 03:42:01 PMQuote from: fillup420 on January 15, 2026, 02:18:24 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on January 09, 2026, 01:01:27 PMWeddington Road interchange on I-485 is now open.
I always wondered why there wasn't an interchange there to begin with. I grew up in the area, and getting to 485 from, for example, the YMCA right next to the new ramps, was a huge pain for either direction. I know lots of folks were unhappy about the new interchange, but i think those feelings will change once they realize how easy it is to access 485 now.
Charlotte/Mecklenburg MPO asked NCDOT to delay building the interchange in order to reduce the immediate growth in the area. Did the same on the other side of 485, at Oakdale. They knew there'd be plenty of growth at the other interchanges, so tried to spread it out a bit. Not sure it really worked, though.
I would have liked to have seen how that played out at the MPO table, where they only have some control over in which FFY the construction funds are authorized.
It was part of the planning of the outer loop, back in the late '80s. The interchanges were identified for the entire loop back then, and then Charlotte said "not so fast" with these two. (Wish they had told NCDOT that they'd changed their mind and provided water/sewer in the Ballentyne area after saying they wouldn't. Would have changed the original design of the first sections from four lanes to (at least) six.)
The later construction of Oakdale and Weddington had to "fight" for funding along with other projects in the area. Oakdale was relatively easy, as the grading when that section was originally done included work for the interchange, so the later project "only" had to do fine grading and build the ramps and interchange. (A change from the original plans were to build roundabouts at the ramp intersections and at Oakdale and Mt Holly-Huntersville Road. Lessened the footprint of the Oakdale corridor.) I believe Weddington, due to the higher buildup in the area, needed more adjustments (I helped with the final configuration but don't recall the "original" one.)
Quote from: jdunlop on January 15, 2026, 05:57:30 PMQuote from: Rothman on January 15, 2026, 04:17:57 PMQuote from: jdunlop on January 15, 2026, 03:42:01 PMQuote from: fillup420 on January 15, 2026, 02:18:24 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on January 09, 2026, 01:01:27 PMWeddington Road interchange on I-485 is now open.
I always wondered why there wasn't an interchange there to begin with. I grew up in the area, and getting to 485 from, for example, the YMCA right next to the new ramps, was a huge pain for either direction. I know lots of folks were unhappy about the new interchange, but i think those feelings will change once they realize how easy it is to access 485 now.
Charlotte/Mecklenburg MPO asked NCDOT to delay building the interchange in order to reduce the immediate growth in the area. Did the same on the other side of 485, at Oakdale. They knew there'd be plenty of growth at the other interchanges, so tried to spread it out a bit. Not sure it really worked, though.
I would have liked to have seen how that played out at the MPO table, where they only have some control over in which FFY the construction funds are authorized.
It was part of the planning of the outer loop, back in the late '80s. The interchanges were identified for the entire loop back then, and then Charlotte said "not so fast" with these two. (Wish they had told NCDOT that they'd changed their mind and provided water/sewer in the Ballentyne area after saying they wouldn't. Would have changed the original design of the first sections from four lanes to (at least) six.)
The later construction of Oakdale and Weddington had to "fight" for funding along with other projects in the area. Oakdale was relatively easy, as the grading when that section was originally done included work for the interchange, so the later project "only" had to do fine grading and build the ramps and interchange. (A change from the original plans were to build roundabouts at the ramp intersections and at Oakdale and Mt Holly-Huntersville Road. Lessened the footprint of the Oakdale corridor.) I believe Weddington, due to the higher buildup in the area, needed more adjustments (I helped with the final configuration but don't recall the "original" one.)
The timing's a little interesting. At least per this ye olde link: https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2017/01/15/interstate-485-and-oakdale-intersection-opens, the study that recommended the delay in construction was in 1999. What's interesting is that the Oakdale project was initiated in 2011 and then awarded in 2016. I believe it was not eligible for Interstate Maintenance (IM) funding, due to being a new interchange. Wonder what kind of funding they had to fight over to get it programmed and wonder if it was mostly NCDOT fighting against its own priorities. :D
Quote from: Rothman on January 15, 2026, 06:08:11 PMQuote from: jdunlop on January 15, 2026, 05:57:30 PMQuote from: Rothman on January 15, 2026, 04:17:57 PMQuote from: jdunlop on January 15, 2026, 03:42:01 PMQuote from: fillup420 on January 15, 2026, 02:18:24 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on January 09, 2026, 01:01:27 PMWeddington Road interchange on I-485 is now open.
I always wondered why there wasn't an interchange there to begin with. I grew up in the area, and getting to 485 from, for example, the YMCA right next to the new ramps, was a huge pain for either direction. I know lots of folks were unhappy about the new interchange, but i think those feelings will change once they realize how easy it is to access 485 now.
Charlotte/Mecklenburg MPO asked NCDOT to delay building the interchange in order to reduce the immediate growth in the area. Did the same on the other side of 485, at Oakdale. They knew there'd be plenty of growth at the other interchanges, so tried to spread it out a bit. Not sure it really worked, though.
I would have liked to have seen how that played out at the MPO table, where they only have some control over in which FFY the construction funds are authorized.
It was part of the planning of the outer loop, back in the late '80s. The interchanges were identified for the entire loop back then, and then Charlotte said "not so fast" with these two. (Wish they had told NCDOT that they'd changed their mind and provided water/sewer in the Ballentyne area after saying they wouldn't. Would have changed the original design of the first sections from four lanes to (at least) six.)
The later construction of Oakdale and Weddington had to "fight" for funding along with other projects in the area. Oakdale was relatively easy, as the grading when that section was originally done included work for the interchange, so the later project "only" had to do fine grading and build the ramps and interchange. (A change from the original plans were to build roundabouts at the ramp intersections and at Oakdale and Mt Holly-Huntersville Road. Lessened the footprint of the Oakdale corridor.) I believe Weddington, due to the higher buildup in the area, needed more adjustments (I helped with the final configuration but don't recall the "original" one.)
The timing's a little interesting. At least per this ye olde link: https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2017/01/15/interstate-485-and-oakdale-intersection-opens, the study that recommended the delay in construction was in 1999. What's interesting is that the Oakdale project was initiated in 2011 and then awarded in 2016. I believe it was not eligible for Interstate Maintenance (IM) funding, due to being a new interchange. Wonder what kind of funding they had to fight over to get it programmed and wonder if it was mostly NCDOT fighting against its own priorities. :D
Sorry, I wasn't clear on the date details. The interchanges were included in the original planning documents for the loop, circa mid '80s. For Oakdale, that section of I-485 was designed in the late '90s (The then head of design asked me about including the roundabouts at Moores Chapel Road about that time, which is why I remember the original design date for that section), and the 1999 date for delaying the interchange makes sense. Sorry I inferred that the decision dates for delay were combined. (Not sure when the Weddington delay request occurred, but since that side of the loop was built mid-'90s, I presume it was sooner.)
I never was involved in much funding decisions, so I can't tell you which pot was used for the interchange construction. I do recall that because it was included in the original planning documents for the loop, we didn't need to do an interchange justification report for FHWA.
Lots of events took place from 1999-2020, and also:
1) Remember that the Charlotte region is handled by 3 different NCDOT divisions. That's important because up until McCrory became governor and completely changed funding for highway projects is allocated, a bigger portion of funding was being equally distributed to all highway divisions. Some rural regions had too much funding and metro areas didn't have enough funding. McCrory all but eliminated the portion that was being equally doled out (today only 5% of annual revenue is equally distributed). McCrory implemented scoring every project based on the most benefit to the most people which steered more to the populated regions. My home town has had a project make to the funding STIP and then removed over and over 3 times as another project elsewhere knocked it off the funding list.
2) So during the last 25 years, there were times when the divisions around Charlotte would have less and then more available funding for desired projects.
3) The great recession and slow recovery resulted in the state raiding the highway trust fund to pay the bills for a few years. But, give Gov. Perdue credit for rallying for Charlotte to receive the lion's share of big project funding for years that completed I-485 and got I-85 rebuilt at Charlotte to be today's nicest interstate in the state and beyond. On top of that she found another $400 million to replace the Yadkin River Bridge, where the old one caught Southbound I-85 traffic by surprise as a blind corner put you on a narrow 4-lane bridge over the river with no room for error for a scary 15 seconds.
4) Multiple hurricanes around 2017 decimated NCDOT's funds so badly that today on their website they have a weekly report on available cash on hand to operate.
5) And finally over the past 25 years NCDOT has changed what it considers to be the optimum size for interstates and they also decided to rebuild only one final time. So that's why the 8-lane freeway is the standard that they build. They used to just add a 3rd lane when widening interstates. Growth really accelerated in the 90s which likely influenced their future construction guidelines.
I just want NC to raise its gas tax since it maintains the 2nd largest system in the nation after Texas. SC and GA gas prices are the same as NC and they maintain half as many miles as NCDOT.
Quote from: architect77 on January 15, 2026, 11:00:12 PMLots of events took place from 1999-2020, and also:
1) Remember that the Charlotte region is handled by 3 different NCDOT divisions. That's important because up until McCrory became governor and completely changed funding for highway projects is allocated, a bigger portion of funding was being equally distributed to all highway divisions. Some rural regions had too much funding and metro areas didn't have enough funding. McCrory all but eliminated the portion that was being equally doled out (today only 5% of annual revenue is equally distributed). McCrory implemented scoring every project based on the most benefit to the most people which steered more to the populated regions. My home town has had a project make to the funding STIP and then removed over and over 3 times as another project elsewhere knocked it off the funding list.
2) So during the last 25 years, there were times when the divisions around Charlotte would have less and then more available funding for desired projects.
3) The great recession and slow recovery resulted in the state raiding the highway trust fund to pay the bills for a few years. But, give Gov. Perdue credit for rallying for Charlotte to receive the lion's share of big project funding for years that completed I-485 and got I-85 rebuilt at Charlotte to be today's nicest interstate in the state and beyond. On top of that she found another $400 million to replace the Yadkin River Bridge, where the old one caught Southbound I-85 traffic by surprise as a blind corner put you on a narrow 4-lane bridge over the river with no room for error for a scary 15 seconds.
4) Multiple hurricanes around 2017 decimated NCDOT's funds so badly that today on their website they have a weekly report on available cash on hand to operate.
5) And finally over the past 25 years NCDOT has changed what it considers to be the optimum size for interstates and they also decided to rebuild only one final time. So that's why the 8-lane freeway is the standard that they build. They used to just add a 3rd lane when widening interstates. Growth really accelerated in the 90s which likely influenced their future construction guidelines.
I just want NC to raise its gas tax since it maintains the 2nd largest system in the nation after Texas. SC and GA gas prices are the same as NC and they maintain half as many miles as NCDOT.
Makes me wonder about how much in federal Emergency Recovery funding they get due to the hurricanes and what emergency funding the State has to come up with on their own and where that line is set. NY only gets a large natural disaster every-so-often, so the ER funds flow in pretty well when that occurs and even for the smaller events that happen annually wherever. Not a whole lot of core funding, whether normal federal allocations from the bill or state allocations gets put towards repairing damage from natural events (at least transportation-wise). However, obviously NC gets hit harder with much broader damage in the gazillions, so just curious how the funding mix ends up down yonder.
Quote from: Rothman on January 15, 2026, 11:46:11 PMQuote from: architect77 on January 15, 2026, 11:00:12 PMLots of events took place from 1999-2020, and also:
1) Remember that the Charlotte region is handled by 3 different NCDOT divisions. That's important because up until McCrory became governor and completely changed funding for highway projects is allocated, a bigger portion of funding was being equally distributed to all highway divisions. Some rural regions had too much funding and metro areas didn't have enough funding. McCrory all but eliminated the portion that was being equally doled out (today only 5% of annual revenue is equally distributed). McCrory implemented scoring every project based on the most benefit to the most people which steered more to the populated regions. My home town has had a project make to the funding STIP and then removed over and over 3 times as another project elsewhere knocked it off the funding list.
2) So during the last 25 years, there were times when the divisions around Charlotte would have less and then more available funding for desired projects.
3) The great recession and slow recovery resulted in the state raiding the highway trust fund to pay the bills for a few years. But, give Gov. Perdue credit for rallying for Charlotte to receive the lion's share of big project funding for years that completed I-485 and got I-85 rebuilt at Charlotte to be today's nicest interstate in the state and beyond. On top of that she found another $400 million to replace the Yadkin River Bridge, where the old one caught Southbound I-85 traffic by surprise as a blind corner put you on a narrow 4-lane bridge over the river with no room for error for a scary 15 seconds.
4) Multiple hurricanes around 2017 decimated NCDOT's funds so badly that today on their website they have a weekly report on available cash on hand to operate.
5) And finally over the past 25 years NCDOT has changed what it considers to be the optimum size for interstates and they also decided to rebuild only one final time. So that's why the 8-lane freeway is the standard that they build. They used to just add a 3rd lane when widening interstates. Growth really accelerated in the 90s which likely influenced their future construction guidelines.
I just want NC to raise its gas tax since it maintains the 2nd largest system in the nation after Texas. SC and GA gas prices are the same as NC and they maintain half as many miles as NCDOT.
Makes me wonder about how much in federal Emergency Recovery funding they get due to the hurricanes and what emergency funding the State has to come up with on their own and where that line is set. NY only gets a large natural disaster every-so-often, so the ER funds flow in pretty well when that occurs and even for the smaller events that happen annually wherever. Not a whole lot of core funding, whether normal federal allocations from the bill or state allocations gets put towards repairing damage from natural events (at least transportation-wise). However, obviously NC gets hit harder with much broader damage in the gazillions, so just curious how the funding mix ends up down yonder.
You can find that info on NCDOT's website. They post documents detailing every budget line item for each fiscal year.
I would guess that the feds always send less than promised and NCDOT has to reallocate funding away from intended uses for the repairs.
They haven't released the $1.1 billion for the Raleigh to Richmond rail project, saying they must review it first. I don't know if VA and NC are making progress on their own or not.
The impending winter storm will allow drivers on I-485 to get a preview of some of the Express Lane signage:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-01-23-winter-weather-temporary-uncovering-overhead-signage-i-485-express-lanes.aspx
NCDOT post about choosing the 'Least Impactful Design' for the I-77 Express Lanes:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-02-04-i-77-south-express-lanes-design-update.aspx
Surprise, they ruled out a tunnel suggestion as being too expensive.
Quote from: bob7374 on February 04, 2026, 11:01:38 PMNCDOT post about choosing the 'Least Impactful Design' for the I-77 Express Lanes:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-02-04-i-77-south-express-lanes-design-update.aspx
Surprise, they ruled out a tunnel suggestion as being too expensive.
Elevated lanes in downtown Charlotte? Nice! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on February 04, 2026, 11:19:56 PMQuote from: bob7374 on February 04, 2026, 11:01:38 PMNCDOT post about choosing the 'Least Impactful Design' for the I-77 Express Lanes:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-02-04-i-77-south-express-lanes-design-update.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-02-04-i-77-south-express-lanes-design-update.aspx)
Surprise, they ruled out a tunnel suggestion as being too expensive.
Elevated lanes in downtown Charlotte? Nice! :thumbsup:
Uptown :cool:
Will the elevated lanes be built similar to Interstate 110's in Los Angeles?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 05, 2026, 11:17:15 AMWill the elevated lanes be built similar to Interstate 110's in Los Angeles?
I'm thinking more of I-75 north of Atlanta.
Quote from: Henry on February 06, 2026, 10:12:48 AMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on February 05, 2026, 11:17:15 AMWill the elevated lanes be built similar to Interstate 110's in Los Angeles?
I'm thinking more of I-75 north of Atlanta.
Don't they call that the Tollercoaster?
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 06, 2026, 10:33:08 AMQuote from: Henry on February 06, 2026, 10:12:48 AMQuote from: The Ghostbuster on February 05, 2026, 11:17:15 AMWill the elevated lanes be built similar to Interstate 110's in Los Angeles?
I'm thinking more of I-75 north of Atlanta.
Don't they call that the Tollercoaster?
The I-75 Express Lanes in Cobb are reversible and were completed for quite a low sum of money. I think that the 16 miles or so cost about $900 million almost 10 years ago. I like the design of the support pillars as the bents are a single pillar like most overpasses in NC. However people say that you cannot drive at high speeds on the elevated lanes and I assume the inclines and declines aren't gradual enough for speeds of 75 mph.
I'm disappointed with the proposed structure for the I-77 upper deck because of the 2 column design. The elevated viaduct in LA that's mentioned above runs down the median with single pillars supporting the wider road bed above. I know it's more expensive but it looks more elegant. But hey, Charlotte has the only 4 level interchange in the state and NCDOT can't afford to build lots of flyovers anymore, just look at the turbine interchange in Southern Wake Co. that stays on the ground at an interchange of 4 highways at once.
NCDOT has published a map with these visualizations. The express lanes will only be elevated near Uptown to avoid the expansion of the freeway footprint, elsewhere they will run at ground level.
(https://i.imgur.com/w5wgvgB.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9U5mZsc.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cCvKshs.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YfXq4PU.jpeg)
Quote from: bob7374 on February 04, 2026, 11:01:38 PMNCDOT post about choosing the 'Least Impactful Design' for the I-77 Express Lanes:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-02-04-i-77-south-express-lanes-design-update.aspx
Surprise, they ruled out a tunnel suggestion as being too expensive.
Tunnels are expensive and require continuous maintenance. Find me a transportation tunnel anywhere that is cheap and affordable, built in the last 50 years.
As for what they selected, it did not matter because people were going to be upset regardless. Not a fan of the elevated option personally, but the option I like was a no-go because it took a lot of neighboring land.
I guess this will be the drama now for the next decade. :popcorn:
I looked at these renderings and I wish they would forget the elevated roadway and stay on the ground. It looks incredibly complicated for all of the entering and exiting the Express Lanes beside the general purpose lanes.
All of this added expense for elevated structures and ramps is to save how many properties? 50, 100, 500? It seems like those homeowners would be happy to take a big buyout to get away from the roar of the completed project where the elevated lanes won't have sound wall protection for the most part.
Anyway, wouldn't it be easier and faster to add a 4th lane for its entirety? Diminishing returns negatively reduce a 5th lane's efficiency, and NCDOT could and needs to raise the gas tax statewide and fund this relatively short stretch of an added free lane without borrowing from a private consortium.
You all may love the complexity of the proposed project but just like in Raleigh, US1 North could benefit from just adding a 3rd lane up to Franklin County, but instead they want to partially make it limited access and inflation has raised the estimated cost to a level that it won't be started until 2031-2035. Overkill in my opinion.
Based on the illustrations from the press release, it looks like the most complicated part of the project would be to rebuild the southern I-277 junction. Aside from the addition of two more ramps and the raising of an existing one, the northern I-277 junction was mostly intact, as the express lanes were to end there. But now that they're continuing southward, the billion-dollar question is, where exactly will the elevated part of the extension start and end? As small as Uptown is compared to the Chicago Loop, Midtown Manhattan or even Downtown Atlanta, this mini-Tollercoaster looks like a waste of money and resources, even though I get why they don't want to take more land than would be ideal for a project of this magnitude.
I feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 11, 2026, 08:01:37 AMI feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?
A reminder, the state owns the major thoroughfares and freeways, not the city; it is a state project.
The city, and soon a transit authority, maintains and operates CATS and LYNX rail. It is the city/authority responsibility to expand the network, not the state.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on February 11, 2026, 09:39:35 AMQuote from: PColumbus73 on February 11, 2026, 08:01:37 AMI feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?
A reminder, the state owns the major thoroughfares and freeways, not the city; it is a state project.
The city, and soon a transit authority, maintains and operates CATS and LYNX rail. It is the city/authority responsibility to expand the network, not the state.
I'm aware of this, but NCDOT did contribute funding for the construction of the Lynx Blue Line ( Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_Blue_Line#Design_(2011%E2%80%932013)) )
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 11, 2026, 09:56:36 AMQuote from: WashuOtaku on February 11, 2026, 09:39:35 AMQuote from: PColumbus73 on February 11, 2026, 08:01:37 AMI feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?
A reminder, the state owns the major thoroughfares and freeways, not the city; it is a state project.
The city, and soon a transit authority, maintains and operates CATS and LYNX rail. It is the city/authority responsibility to expand the network, not the state.
I'm aware of this, but NCDOT did contribute funding for the construction of the Lynx Blue Line ( Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_Blue_Line#Design_(2011%E2%80%932013)) )
Yea they did. But the rules since changed and now require majority of funding to be allocated (from local and/or Fed) before the state chip in. I'm glad ownership of CATS/LYNX will be transferred from the City to a Authority, because the City has done nothing but drag its feet for the last decade on transportation needs, saying we don't have the money, but then forks millions anytime a Billionaire asks.
The 485 express lanes project is nearing completion which also added a GP lane in each direction:
https://www.globalhighways.com/news/346-million-north-carolina-express-lanes
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 11, 2026, 08:01:37 AMI feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?
The rail line moves only people where as every aspect of life gets transported on roads.
Pound for pound I thin the cost of this project would maybe build one complete new LRT line. Would construction have to use private financing" Each trip would have to charge closer to the real cost of around $15. Probably another increase in sales tax of at least another 1% to pay each year's operational costs thereafter.
Quote from: architect77 on February 13, 2026, 01:07:10 AMQuote from: PColumbus73 on February 11, 2026, 08:01:37 AMI feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?
The rail line moves only people where as every aspect of life gets transported on roads.
Pound for pound I thin the cost of this project would maybe build one complete new LRT line. Would construction have to use private financing" Each trip would have to charge closer to the real cost of around $15. Probably another increase in sales tax of at least another 1% to pay each year's operational costs thereafter.
Also, the I-77 express lanes on the northern side of the city come with a stipulation of preventing adjacent road widenings near the I-77 corridor. Will that also apply to potential projects south of Uptown? I don't think the project would concern SCDOT at all, but it would be interesting to see how Cintas/NCDOT's relationship affects future cross-border projects.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 13, 2026, 08:06:05 AMAlso, the I-77 express lanes on the northern side of the city come with a stipulation of preventing adjacent road widenings near the I-77 corridor. Will that also apply to potential projects south of Uptown? I don't think the project would concern SCDOT at all, but it would be interesting to see how Cintas/NCDOT's relationship affects future cross-border projects.
That will depend on the contract negotiated and with who.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 13, 2026, 08:06:05 AMQuote from: architect77 on February 13, 2026, 01:07:10 AMQuote from: PColumbus73 on February 11, 2026, 08:01:37 AMI feel like Charlotte's big enough where expanding CATS and the LYNX rail system would do more good than these express lanes. If the express and GP lanes have to bob and weave around each other, are they even worth it?
The rail line moves only people where as every aspect of life gets transported on roads.
Pound for pound I thin the cost of this project would maybe build one complete new LRT line. Would construction have to use private financing" Each trip would have to charge closer to the real cost of around $15. Probably another increase in sales tax of at least another 1% to pay each year's operational costs thereafter.
Also, the I-77 express lanes on the northern side of the city come with a stipulation of preventing adjacent road widenings near the I-77 corridor. Will that also apply to potential projects south of Uptown? I don't think the project would concern SCDOT at all, but it would be interesting to see how Cintas/NCDOT's relationship affects future cross-border projects.
It doesn't seem like there is any nearby corridor for them to not allow. I mean is a highway over on the East side of Charlotte a potential alternate to I-77?
I wonder if they ever studied beefing up a nearby North -South corridor as a way to relieve I-77. The constrained right of way really is the driver of so much expense for this capacity increase endeavor.
Quote from: architect77 on February 14, 2026, 01:58:56 PMIt doesn't seem like there is any nearby corridor for them to not allow. I mean is a highway over on the East side of Charlotte a potential alternate to I-77?
I wonder if they ever studied beefing up a nearby North -South corridor as a way to relieve I-77. The constrained right of way really is the driver of so much expense for this capacity increase endeavor.
The original north-south corridor was South Boulevard (formally US 21 and later US 521), followed by South Tryon Street (NC 49). I-77/US 21 exists to move traffic off the city streets; so moving it back (by widening lanes or converting to super-street or expressway design) would be a non-starter (especially with booming South End).
Quote from: WashuOtaku on February 15, 2026, 12:12:25 PMQuote from: architect77 on February 14, 2026, 01:58:56 PMIt doesn't seem like there is any nearby corridor for them to not allow. I mean is a highway over on the East side of Charlotte a potential alternate to I-77?
I wonder if they ever studied beefing up a nearby North -South corridor as a way to relieve I-77. The constrained right of way really is the driver of so much expense for this capacity increase endeavor.
The original north-south corridor was South Boulevard (formally US 21 and later US 521), followed by South Tryon Street (NC 49). I-77/US 21 exists to move traffic off the city streets; so moving it back (by widening lanes or converting to super-street or expressway design) would be a non-starter (especially with booming South End).
I understand.
Do you or anyone else know how many properties would have to be taken for the option to avoid the elevated structure?
I wonder what the noise level will be for the properties saved after this project is completed. Express Lanes are designed to free flow at 45mph or faster all the time meaning there will be a roar all the time above the elevation that sound walls can mitigate.
Quote from: architect77 on February 15, 2026, 05:37:31 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on February 15, 2026, 12:12:25 PMQuote from: architect77 on February 14, 2026, 01:58:56 PMIt doesn't seem like there is any nearby corridor for them to not allow. I mean is a highway over on the East side of Charlotte a potential alternate to I-77?
I wonder if they ever studied beefing up a nearby North -South corridor as a way to relieve I-77. The constrained right of way really is the driver of so much expense for this capacity increase endeavor.
The original north-south corridor was South Boulevard (formally US 21 and later US 521), followed by South Tryon Street (NC 49). I-77/US 21 exists to move traffic off the city streets; so moving it back (by widening lanes or converting to super-street or expressway design) would be a non-starter (especially with booming South End).
I understand.
Do you or anyone else know how many properties would have to be taken for the option to avoid the elevated structure?
I wonder what the noise level will be for the properties saved after this project is completed. Express Lanes are designed to free flow at 45mph or faster all the time meaning there will be a roar all the time above the elevation that sound walls can mitigate.
No, but the maps are on the project's website to look at. They already get sound, so what they are more angry about is likely the view.
Looks like the opening of the I-485 Express Lanes is getting closer:
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-02-23-i-485-lane-closures.aspx
Okay boys, the express lanes are now open. :spin:
Updated the Wiki article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_485) and here is the reference used (https://www.wcnc.com/video/news/local/i-485-express-lanes-officially-open-in-south-charlotte/275-e1a5574b-888b-4445-9e7c-d032cbc44ab0).
Quote from: WashuOtaku on February 28, 2026, 10:54:11 AMOkay boys, the express lanes are now open. :spin:
Updated the Wiki article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_485) and here is the reference used (https://www.wcnc.com/video/news/local/i-485-express-lanes-officially-open-in-south-charlotte/275-e1a5574b-888b-4445-9e7c-d032cbc44ab0).
I noted in the article that the inner loop express lanes will be $4.90 at most for a one-way trip, but the outer loop lanes will be $7.35 with a valid transponder. What is up with that?
Quote from: Henry on March 01, 2026, 08:18:08 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on February 28, 2026, 10:54:11 AMOkay boys, the express lanes are now open. :spin:
Updated the Wiki article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_485) and here is the reference used (https://www.wcnc.com/video/news/local/i-485-express-lanes-officially-open-in-south-charlotte/275-e1a5574b-888b-4445-9e7c-d032cbc44ab0).
I noted in the article that the inner loop express lanes will be $4.90 at most for a one-way trip, but the outer loop lanes will be $7.35 with a valid transponder. What is up with that?
The tolls are different for inner and outer. There is considerable more traffic going outbound (afternoon) plus the
direct exit to Johnston Road South (Ballantyne area), while the inbound does not have a direct exit.
I do have the references linked (https://www.ncquickpass.com/app/uploads/2026/01/I-485-Express-Lanes-Time-of-Day-Toll-Rates.pdf) where I got the numbers. In a year, they will change the system to dynamic pricing, which I assume will be the usual minimum-maximum range.
Quote from: WashuOtaku on March 01, 2026, 09:15:24 PMQuote from: Henry on March 01, 2026, 08:18:08 PMQuote from: WashuOtaku on February 28, 2026, 10:54:11 AMOkay boys, the express lanes are now open. :spin:
Updated the Wiki article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_485) and here is the reference used (https://www.wcnc.com/video/news/local/i-485-express-lanes-officially-open-in-south-charlotte/275-e1a5574b-888b-4445-9e7c-d032cbc44ab0).
I noted in the article that the inner loop express lanes will be $4.90 at most for a one-way trip, but the outer loop lanes will be $7.35 with a valid transponder. What is up with that?
The tolls are different for inner and outer. There is considerable more traffic going outbound (afternoon) plus the direct exit to Johnston Road South (Ballantyne area), while the inbound does not have a direct exit.
I do have the references linked (https://www.ncquickpass.com/app/uploads/2026/01/I-485-Express-Lanes-Time-of-Day-Toll-Rates.pdf) where I got the numbers. In a year, they will change the system to dynamic pricing, which I assume will be the usual minimum-maximum range.
So I always thought the genius of Express Lanes was that the dynamic pricing could guarantee a free flowing lane of 45mph minimum or faster, and that it would never succumb to gridlock or congestion. If the tolls had to had to rise to $100 per trip to keep too many from using the lane at once that threatened the 45mph speed then so be it.
I thought the sole purpose was guaranteeing the free flow of 45mph as an option for everyone during certain times when they needed to get somewhere predictably faster.
NCDOT should force Cintra to lower the Northern Express Lane tolls to the amount that they (the lanes) are fully utilized. From what people say they are not fully utilized and the prices can be $7 for 2 mile stretches which is absurd. Has Cintra chosen a moderate usage at high rates revenue model over a high utilization starting with lower rates (what it should be) revenue model?
There should be a cap on how high the tolls can go. I don't care if the speed limit drops down to 3 miles an hour, there's no justification to force other commuters to sit in soul crushing traffic so the 1% of people that can afford to pay 100 fucking dollars can fly by them at 45 miles an hour. That's insanity.
https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article315714047.html
Oh for goodness sake...
^ I really don't know what a good solution to this would be. And don't say transit because the Lynx Blue Line runs less than a mile from most of this corridor. The problem here is everyone who can't use transit. Tractor trailers, dump trucks, work trucks of all shapes and sizes. The people who make it possible for a society to one day become dependent on transit, they have to physically DRIVE to the construction sites with the tools and materials/construction supplies to get the work done so these mostly petulant and smug transit babies can live in peace and harmony not driving on I-77. And these blue collar workers either can't afford to live in Charlotte or don't feel safe living in the areas they could afford, so they live in South Carolina or in Union County, NC and commute into Charlotte from there every day. And those same blue collar workers put up with rich a$$holes in high end SUVs or sports cars/sedans commuting in from Ballantyne zipping in and out of traffic and causing accidents.
I may not live in Charlotte, but seeing that I've worked in most parts of the area for the past 15 years doing telecom work, I know the traffic patterns. A lot of traffic converges on I-77 between I-485 and I-277. It used to just be northbound in the mornings and southbound in the afternoons, but it's both ways now with folks going to either CLT or the Tyvola Rd/South Park area, or the numerous distro centers/warehouses near Westinghouse Blvd. 77 is bad. Really bad. I am definitely against ruining any more neighborhoods to fix this issue, if at all possible. And seeing as how the 77 north toll lanes have been a pricing disaster from Day 1 of tolling, I'm completely against toll lanes, unless they find a way to toll all of them for a reasonable price during commuting times and not toll them during off-peak times. They can do that with 77 north (eliminate the tolls during non-peak times). Heck, NCDOT ought to do that with the new 485 toll lanes right now. But Cintra is in it for the money for their shareholders (who probably don't live in the USA), so they could care less.
Quote from: wriddle082 on May 13, 2026, 09:48:33 AM^ I really don't know what a good solution to this would be. And don't say transit because the Lynx Blue Line runs less than a mile from most of this corridor. The problem here is everyone who can't use transit. Tractor trailers, dump trucks, work trucks of all shapes and sizes. The people who make it possible for a society to one day become dependent on transit, they have to physically DRIVE to the construction sites with the tools and materials/construction supplies to get the work done so these mostly petulant and smug transit babies can live in peace and harmony not driving on I-77. And these blue collar workers either can't afford to live in Charlotte or don't feel safe living in the areas they could afford, so they live in South Carolina or in Union County, NC and commute into Charlotte from there every day. And those same blue collar workers put up with rich a$$holes in high end SUVs or sports cars/sedans commuting in from Ballantyne zipping in and out of traffic and causing accidents.
I may not live in Charlotte, but seeing that I've worked in most parts of the area for the past 15 years doing telecom work, I know the traffic patterns. A lot of traffic converges on I-77 between I-485 and I-277. It used to just be northbound in the mornings and southbound in the afternoons, but it's both ways now with folks going to either CLT or the Tyvola Rd/South Park area, or the numerous distro centers/warehouses near Westinghouse Blvd. 77 is bad. Really bad. I am definitely against ruining any more neighborhoods to fix this issue, if at all possible. And seeing as how the 77 north toll lanes have been a pricing disaster from Day 1 of tolling, I'm completely against toll lanes, unless they find a way to toll all of them for a reasonable price during commuting times and not toll them during off-peak times. They can do that with 77 north (eliminate the tolls during non-peak times). Heck, NCDOT ought to do that with the new 485 toll lanes right now. But Cintra is in it for the money for their shareholders (who probably don't live in the USA), so they could care less.
Personally, I think there could be a transit-style alternative. I've always been a fan of combining express lanes with BRT like in Los Angeles and Minneapolis, rather than the "express bus" services seen by a few cities. Heck, maybe such an idea could have saved the express lanes in Jacksonville...
I feel that 485 isn't utilized well enough as a bypass for thru travel. It's great for 77 and decent for connecting to 85N by continuing beyond the 77 interchange. What if 77 was tolled with a flat $2 or $3 fee from 485 to Brookshire? Just enough to discourage drivers to avoid while still being somewhat price sensitive. Money could be used fund tunnels/caps the city would want along the way to reduce impact on adjacent properties. Also, transit doesn't really go far enough south to help with 77 traffic. It's also not very convenient to access from 77. SC is huge contributor to the traffic on 77. Fort Mill and Rock Hill would need to have stops and RH is kind of pushing limits for length of light rail. Commuter rail would be best but, SC ain't going for that.
NCDOT announcement regarding 6 proposals to reconnect the west side of Charlotte to the rest of the city currently separated due to I-77, as part of the upcoming I-77 South Express Lanes project. Planned 'summit' about the proposals has been canceled due to 'recent developments that may impact the project's funding':
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-05-18-i-77-reconnecting-concepts.aspx
Quote from: bob7374 on May 18, 2026, 04:53:44 PMNCDOT announcement regarding 6 proposals to reconnect the west side of Charlotte to the rest of the city currently separated due to I-77, as part of the upcoming I-77 South Express Lanes project. Planned 'summit' about the proposals has been canceled due to 'recent developments that may impact the project's funding':
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-05-18-i-77-reconnecting-concepts.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-05-18-i-77-reconnecting-concepts.aspx)
The "recent developments" could be at least partly attributed to the widespread public opposition to this project. There was heavy opposition to the current toll lanes, but they were forced upon us anyway. Its now been proven with time that they do not help solve the traffic issue on I-77 between Charlotte and Mooresville. i can attest, from sitting in crawling traffic for several miles while the toll lanes remain mostly empty, that it doesn't work. Also, the nissan-altima-type folks love to just run over the plastic barriers separating the lanes, in between the toll gantries, so they dont get charged. This causes even more traffic with cars just whipping back into the free lanes.
The costs during peak hours are absurd. The MINIMUM price, as seen from street view, to go from 277 North to 85 North via the 77 toll lanes is $3.20, the max i have seen is $6.75. that is less than 3 miles of travel. absolutely insane, since its a vital link from "uptown" Charlotte to I-85. also, that movement always costs more than going further on the toll lanes to US 21. The dynamic pricing is purely profit-driven, and NCDOT is not the main beneficiary to those tolls, since Pat Mcrory basically sold the road to a foreign private developer.
The residents are right to resist this project. It just doesn't solve the problem its supposed to solve. It instead preys upon those who make a split-second decision when they see slow/stopped traffic ahead. Drivers have about 4 seconds to make that decision.
As a Charlotte native myself, I despise the entire toll lane project. There is a perfectly good rail line between Charlotte and Mooresville that could easily be upgraded to support commuter service. if the state put the same funding towards that, it would get commuters off the road, and the interstate could function more like its supposed to; serving long-distance travelers.
That's fucking ridiculous. They need to build the toll lanes it would help.
Federal funding would be withdrawn if support for this project goes away:
https://www.wfae.org/politics/2026-05-18/state-warns-i-77-toll-project-would-lose-funding-if-support-is-withdrawn
Though I only live 70 miles away, I rarely go to Charlotte, but looking at the map, I wonder how tolling current 77 between 85 and South Tryon during rush hours only while using that revenue to build a free local/express on 85 to Billy Graham with high speed south to south/north to north flyover upgrade Billy Graham to a 6 lane freeway rejoining 77 at South Tryon. Essentially diverting thru traffic onto an upgraded 85 and Billy Graham corridor for free while tolling 77 in midtown during rush hour. You could put park and rides on Billy Graham with transit options to the CBD. But I have not seen O/D data.
It looks like the toll lane project has been killed given federal funding will be withdrawn:
https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/local/regional-transportation-body-votes-to-withdraw-support-for-i-77-south-toll-lanes/275-31c2914a-3f86-4fd9-b0cc-d0469b264423
Quote from: fillup420 on May 18, 2026, 10:15:06 PMQuote from: bob7374 on May 18, 2026, 04:53:44 PMNCDOT announcement regarding 6 proposals to reconnect the west side of Charlotte to the rest of the city currently separated due to I-77, as part of the upcoming I-77 South Express Lanes project. Planned 'summit' about the proposals has been canceled due to 'recent developments that may impact the project's funding':
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-05-18-i-77-reconnecting-concepts.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-05-18-i-77-reconnecting-concepts.aspx)
The "recent developments" could be at least partly attributed to the widespread public opposition to this project. There was heavy opposition to the current toll lanes, but they were forced upon us anyway. Its now been proven with time that they do not help solve the traffic issue on I-77 between Charlotte and Mooresville. i can attest, from sitting in crawling traffic for several miles while the toll lanes remain mostly empty, that it doesn't work. Also, the nissan-altima-type folks love to just run over the plastic barriers separating the lanes, in between the toll gantries, so they dont get charged. This causes even more traffic with cars just whipping back into the free lanes.
The costs during peak hours are absurd. The MINIMUM price, as seen from street view, to go from 277 North to 85 North via the 77 toll lanes is $3.20, the max i have seen is $6.75. that is less than 3 miles of travel. absolutely insane, since its a vital link from "uptown" Charlotte to I-85. also, that movement always costs more than going further on the toll lanes to US 21. The dynamic pricing is purely profit-driven, and NCDOT is not the main beneficiary to those tolls, since Pat Mcrory basically sold the road to a foreign private developer.
The residents are right to resist this project. It just doesn't solve the problem its supposed to solve. It instead preys upon those who make a split-second decision when they see slow/stopped traffic ahead. Drivers have about 4 seconds to make that decision.
As a Charlotte native myself, I despise the entire toll lane project. There is a perfectly good rail line between Charlotte and Mooresville that could easily be upgraded to support commuter service. if the state put the same funding towards that, it would get commuters off the road, and the interstate could function more like its supposed to; serving long-distance travelers.
You are right to be angry about the price of these tolls. Gov. McCrory is fully responsible and the state should either buy the contract to get rid of the foreign entity altogether, or....
Remind Cintra that the purpose of the project was to add capacity to I-77 and the tolls should start low and only rise once the Express lanes are fully used and rising the rate is to keep too many for entering that would slow the lanes to flow slower than 45mph.
That is the why the lanes were built- to offer the option of a faster trip on lanes always flowing 45mph or faster.
The tolls are way too high. Atlanta's Express Lanes are fully used and start at 50 cents or $1.50 for several miles-long segments.
I think there is a huge disconnect in what Cintra believes is the purpose of these lanes. They would collect more money by keeping the lanes fully utilized at lower rates than empty with higher rates.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 02, 2026, 10:24:28 AMThere should be a cap on how high the tolls can go. I don't care if the speed limit drops down to 3 miles an hour, there's no justification to force other commuters to sit in soul crushing traffic so the 1% of people that can afford to pay 100 fucking dollars can fly by them at 45 miles an hour. That's insanity.
But only the users of Express Lanes are paying anything. The option is always there for anyone on a day you need to get somewhere predictably faster.
That is the only reason they are built in any metro area. To offer a fast trip for everyone when they need it.
Quote from: fillup420 on May 18, 2026, 10:15:06 PMQuote from: bob7374 on May 18, 2026, 04:53:44 PMNCDOT announcement regarding 6 proposals to reconnect the west side of Charlotte to the rest of the city currently separated due to I-77, as part of the upcoming I-77 South Express Lanes project. Planned 'summit' about the proposals has been canceled due to 'recent developments that may impact the project's funding':
https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-05-18-i-77-reconnecting-concepts.aspx (https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2026/2026-05-18-i-77-reconnecting-concepts.aspx)
The "recent developments" could be at least partly attributed to the widespread public opposition to this project. There was heavy opposition to the current toll lanes, but they were forced upon us anyway. Its now been proven with time that they do not help solve the traffic issue on I-77 between Charlotte and Mooresville. i can attest, from sitting in crawling traffic for several miles while the toll lanes remain mostly empty, that it doesn't work. Also, the nissan-altima-type folks love to just run over the plastic barriers separating the lanes, in between the toll gantries, so they dont get charged. This causes even more traffic with cars just whipping back into the free lanes.
The costs during peak hours are absurd. The MINIMUM price, as seen from street view, to go from 277 North to 85 North via the 77 toll lanes is $3.20, the max i have seen is $6.75. that is less than 3 miles of travel. absolutely insane, since its a vital link from "uptown" Charlotte to I-85. also, that movement always costs more than going further on the toll lanes to US 21. The dynamic pricing is purely profit-driven, and NCDOT is not the main beneficiary to those tolls, since Pat Mcrory basically sold the road to a foreign private developer.
The residents are right to resist this project. It just doesn't solve the problem its supposed to solve. It instead preys upon those who make a split-second decision when they see slow/stopped traffic ahead. Drivers have about 4 seconds to make that decision.
As a Charlotte native myself, I despise the entire toll lane project. There is a perfectly good rail line between Charlotte and Mooresville that could easily be upgraded to support commuter service. if the state put the same funding towards that, it would get commuters off the road, and the interstate could function more like its supposed to; serving long-distance travelers.
Charlotte now owns that (future commuter) rail line.
Raleigh's outerloop is 60% tolled with the NC Quickpass price for the full Southern half of I-540/NC540 at $12.01 per trip. No free lanes at all. People seem ok with it.
Quote from: architect77 on May 24, 2026, 12:44:06 PMRaleigh's outerloop is 60% tolled with the NC Quickpass price for the full Southern half of I-540/NC540 at $12.01 per trip. No free lanes at all. People seem ok with it.
You're right, we are okay with it. Thats because its not a complete rip-off.
The tolls on NC 540 are fixed. it costs $8.04 with a NCquickpass to drive the entire 33 miles, according to NCquickpass website (not sure where you got $12.01 from). Same goes for the US 74 Bypass in Monroe. $3 to drive the entire 18 mile road. That is a huge difference from the I-77 dynamic toll lanes. During peak times, I-77 express can easily cost upwards of $30 to go 26 miles. On top of that, the tolls from 540 and 74 go back into the state transportation fund, unlike the 77 tolls that go straight to a private corp. Additionally, there is a non-compete clause in the 77 express lanes contract that basically forbids any major improvements on I-77 and any parallel roads for 50 YEARS. Mecklenburg county and the NCDOT got completely screwed by the 77 express lanes.
It will be interesting to compare the pricing on the 77 express lanes VS the new 485 express lanes, which are not controlled by a private corp. However i don't believe the 485 lanes are fully operational yet.
Quote from: architect77 on May 24, 2026, 12:44:06 PMRaleigh's outerloop is 60% tolled with the NC Quickpass price for the full Southern half of I-540/NC540 at $12.01 per trip. No free lanes at all. People seem ok with it.
Quote from: fillup420 on May 24, 2026, 07:36:09 PMYou're right, we are okay with it. Thats because its not a complete rip-off.
Sadly, many long-time residents of Southern Wake and still quite upset that folks in North Raleigh got I-540 constructed without tolls when they felt like their traffic situation (US-1/US-64 in the Crossroads areas) was worse. Be reminded that the first segment of I-540 was completed in 1999 and completed to Capital Boulevard in 2002.
I'm not sure that I agree with the old-timers in Southern Wake. It's one thing to compare the old mess at Crossroads to Capital Boulevard, and quite another to compare the trek from North Raleigh -to- RTP to a trek from Apex -to- RTP back some 25 years ago or so.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on May 24, 2026, 09:24:45 PMSadly, many long-time residents of Southern Wake and still quite upset that folks in North Raleigh got I-540 constructed without tolls when they felt like their traffic situation (US-1/US-64 in the Crossroads areas) was worse. Be reminded that the first segment of I-540 was completed in 1999 and completed to Capital Boulevard in 2002.
I'm not sure that I agree with the old-timers in Southern Wake. It's one thing to compare the old mess at Crossroads to Capital Boulevard, and quite another to compare the trek from North Raleigh -to- RTP to a trek from Apex -to- RTP back some 25 years ago or so.
I lived in Apex in 1999 and 2000. Every morning there was a long line of cars on NC-55/Williams Street inching their way to RTP. I'm sure in the evening it was similar - I was working second shift so I didn't witness that.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on May 24, 2026, 09:24:45 PMQuote from: architect77 on May 24, 2026, 12:44:06 PMRaleigh's outerloop is 60% tolled with the NC Quickpass price for the full Southern half of I-540/NC540 at $12.01 per trip. No free lanes at all. People seem ok with it.
Quote from: fillup420 on May 24, 2026, 07:36:09 PMYou're right, we are okay with it. Thats because its not a complete rip-off.
Sadly, many long-time residents of Southern Wake and still quite upset that folks in North Raleigh got I-540 constructed without tolls when they felt like their traffic situation (US-1/US-64 in the Crossroads areas) was worse. Be reminded that the first segment of I-540 was completed in 1999 and completed to Capital Boulevard in 2002.
I'm not sure that I agree with the old-timers in Southern Wake. It's one thing to compare the old mess at Crossroads to Capital Boulevard, and quite another to compare the trek from North Raleigh -to- RTP to a trek from Apex -to- RTP back some 25 years ago or so.
yall are missing the point. The toll price per mile is what we are discussing.
Meanwhile in Charlotte . . .
https://www.axios.com/local/charlotte/2026/05/26/charlotte-growth-population-1-million
QuoteAs Charlotte barrels toward a population of 1 million, the city of transplants and unicorn natives is uniting behind a common phrase: "We're full."
Raise the drawbridge and drop the portcullis. We can't let any more in.
Quote from: elsmere241 on May 26, 2026, 06:54:03 PMMeanwhile in Charlotte . . .
https://www.axios.com/local/charlotte/2026/05/26/charlotte-growth-population-1-million
QuoteAs Charlotte barrels toward a population of 1 million, the city of transplants and unicorn natives is uniting behind a common phrase: "We're full."
Doesn't Charlotte have Atlanta envy?
Quote from: fillup420 on May 24, 2026, 07:36:09 PMQuote from: architect77 on May 24, 2026, 12:44:06 PMRaleigh's outerloop is 60% tolled with the NC Quickpass price for the full Southern half of I-540/NC540 at $12.01 per trip. No free lanes at all. People seem ok with it.
You're right, we are okay with it. Thats because its not a complete rip-off.
The tolls on NC 540 are fixed. it costs $8.04 with a NCquickpass to drive the entire 33 miles, according to NCquickpass website (not sure where you got $12.01 from). Same goes for the US 74 Bypass in Monroe. $3 to drive the entire 18 mile road. That is a huge difference from the I-77 dynamic toll lanes. During peak times, I-77 express can easily cost upwards of $30 to go 26 miles. On top of that, the tolls from 540 and 74 go back into the state transportation fund, unlike the 77 tolls that go straight to a private corp. Additionally, there is a non-compete clause in the 77 express lanes contract that basically forbids any major improvements on I-77 and any parallel roads for 50 YEARS. Mecklenburg county and the NCDOT got completely screwed by the 77 express lanes.
It will be interesting to compare the pricing on the 77 express lanes VS the new 485 express lanes, which are not controlled by a private corp. However i don't believe the 485 lanes are fully operational yet.
The $12.01 will be the price of the tolled portion once complete. All of the info is available online. Yes the I-77 deal sucks and Charlotte native Pat McCrory arranged it.
He should have gotten I-77 widened through the state and the turnpike authority.
But Express Lanes are different from a typical toll road, and they are quite genius in their sole mission of offering a free flowing lane of travel at 45mph or faster guaranteed. The dynamic tolls can keep it moving. Atlanta's Express Lanes are a perfect example of how prices should be initially set.
I suggest lots of people do what I did and contact NCDOT reminding them that the tolls by cintra are discouraging adequate usage of the lanes which defeats the whole purpose of building them in the first place.
Does anyone believe the canceled Interstate 77 Express Lanes might be revived at some point?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 31, 2026, 08:37:14 PMDoes anyone believe the canceled Interstate 77 Express Lanes might be revived at some point?
The problem remains. I also like someone's suggestion of building a I-77 bypass of Charlotte which on undeveloped land to the East could be done for far less than the proposed elevated Express Lanes.
I can't believe that anyone would consider another deal with Cintra though. They are holding I-77 hostage with such overpriced toll rates.
Tolls on the I-485 express lanes might be adjusted due to the increased demand:
https://www.wcnc.com/article/traffic/i-485-toll-rates-to-be-adjusted-to-support-growing-traffic-ncta/275-472430a3-aae5-43f2-9f20-68e79606cee5
Here is an interesting document that lists lots of specifics about total mileage and vehicle miles traveled for NC cities and all urbanized areas of over 1 million people for the year 2024.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/55358672535_49b626732f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2skREFi)highway miles (https://flic.kr/p/2skREFi) by Stephen Edwards (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151506681@N05/), on Flickr
Interstate 277 around Uptown Charlotte can be an adventure. From backed-up traffic and crazy merges to slaloming through lane changes, I-277 is one of Charlotte's most talked-about highways. One of its most challenging interchanges has been memorialized in a video game. There are also proposals to turn the urban Interstate into a river. And on the Sunday of Labor Day Weekend, they run a 10k on it.
I-277 isn't a long highway, running at just under 4.5 miles. It offers great views of the skyline and of the constantly changing cityscape. And I will admit, I'll sometimes drive around 277 just to get a view of the growing city.
If you are stuck in traffic on the Outer 277 between Graham Street and Interstate 277, you may have noticed an odd feature of the road where an onramp to 277 once was or was supposed to go. There is an answer: it is a remnant of an old I-277 on-ramp from North Graham Street, eliminated around 2005. The ramp began at the modern intersection of Music Factory Boulevard and North Graham. It curved up to I-277 over what is now the residential parking lot for the Cadence Music Factory Apartments.
The removal of the ramp did not prevent drivers on North Graham Street from accessing Interstate 277. Drivers would now turn at 12th Street to use that on-ramp, which has been part of the highway since the beginning. The ramp's elimination removed one of the merge points in the Interstate's last mile before the Interstate 77 interchange, making one less lane weave and merge delay on I-277.
https://www.gribblenation.org/2026/06/the-north-graham-street-ghost-on-ramp.html
So nobody here is going to talk about the elephant in the room which is the rejection by Charlotte City Council of the NCDOT/Cintra plans for the I-77 South Express Lanes, and the legislative aftermath that has ensued, requiring Charlotte and neighboring cities to repay the engineering costs incurred?
https://www.qcnews.com/charlotte/charlotte-leaders-withdraw-support-of-i-77-expansion-project/
(This is one article, many others are out there.)
Quote from: wriddle082 on July 08, 2026, 10:09:14 AMSo nobody here is going to talk about the elephant in the room which is the rejection by Charlotte City Council of the NCDOT/Cintra plans for the I-77 South Express Lanes, and the legislative aftermath that has ensued, requiring Charlotte and neighboring cities to repay the engineering costs incurred?
https://www.qcnews.com/charlotte/charlotte-leaders-withdraw-support-of-i-77-expansion-project/
(This is one article, many others are out there.)
I haven't heard of a state trying to get a city to recoup engineering costs for a canceled project. On the face of it, it sounds spiteful. The I-77 express lanes isn't the first project to be canceled for lack of support, either from the public, or a government.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on July 08, 2026, 12:34:53 PMQuote from: wriddle082 on July 08, 2026, 10:09:14 AMSo nobody here is going to talk about the elephant in the room which is the rejection by Charlotte City Council of the NCDOT/Cintra plans for the I-77 South Express Lanes, and the legislative aftermath that has ensued, requiring Charlotte and neighboring cities to repay the engineering costs incurred?
https://www.qcnews.com/charlotte/charlotte-leaders-withdraw-support-of-i-77-expansion-project/
(This is one article, many others are out there.)
I haven't heard of a state trying to get a city to recoup engineering costs for a canceled project. On the face of it, it sounds spiteful. The I-77 express lanes isn't the first project to be canceled for lack of support, either from the public, or a government.
Federal funds are repaid if projects aren't progressed to construction...after a long while.
So why can't the state just take over the Express lanes like they do on I-485? I wouldn't be excited about giving control of the roads to some foreign company. Those existing I-77 toll lanes seemed empty during rush hour the past few times I've visited Charlotte.
Quote from: mvak36 on July 08, 2026, 05:25:59 PMSo why can't the state just take over the Express lanes like they do on I-485? I wouldn't be excited about giving control of the roads to some foreign company. Those existing I-77 toll lanes seemed empty during rush hour the past few times I've visited Charlotte.
Yep, they're empty because they're overpriced. Locals seem content sitting in traffic out of protest.
Personally, if I have to go north of Charlotte up 77, I take NC 16 up into Catawba County, backroads to I-40, and rejoin 77 in Statesville. It breaks up the monotony a little bit, and I generally don't have traffic issues except maybe in NW Charlotte.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on July 08, 2026, 12:34:53 PMQuote from: wriddle082 on July 08, 2026, 10:09:14 AMSo nobody here is going to talk about the elephant in the room which is the rejection by Charlotte City Council of the NCDOT/Cintra plans for the I-77 South Express Lanes, and the legislative aftermath that has ensued, requiring Charlotte and neighboring cities to repay the engineering costs incurred?
https://www.qcnews.com/charlotte/charlotte-leaders-withdraw-support-of-i-77-expansion-project/
(This is one article, many others are out there.)
I haven't heard of a state trying to get a city to recoup engineering costs for a canceled project. On the face of it, it sounds spiteful. The I-77 express lanes isn't the first project to be canceled for lack of support, either from the public, or a government.
The Charlotte area MPO voted to support the project and include it in its project list. NCDOT then spent multi-millions on the preliminary engineering. Then Charlotte didn't like the project due to the design or more precisely the negative public feedback (it wasn't an easy design fitting the road in the tight corridor.) They then voted to cancel the project they requested. So, NCDOT wants the money it spent on developing the project paid back by the ones (Charlotte) who cancelled the project they initially requested (beyond the usual pre-commitment work.)
Quote from: mvak36 on July 08, 2026, 05:25:59 PMSo why can't the state just take over the Express lanes like they do on I-485? I wouldn't be excited about giving control of the roads to some foreign company. Those existing I-77 toll lanes seemed empty during rush hour the past few times I've visited Charlotte.
The express lane construction was fully paid for by the private company (they did bid on the contract) with the understanding that essentially all revenue would be paid to them over the contracted time period (50 years.). For the State to take over the lanes, they'd have to pay the private company back the cost of constructing the lanes. It's allowable under the contract, but costly to do so.
It's the only P3 contact in the state for toll roads; other states have done something similar. Virginia's express lanes on 95 and 495 were built (or improved) in the same manner.
At least one Midwest state (Indiana?) sold or leased their existing toll roads to a private company for a quick influx of cash, and now those tolls go to the private company instead of the state.
Quote from: jdunlop on July 09, 2026, 12:47:49 AMQuote from: PColumbus73 on July 08, 2026, 12:34:53 PMQuote from: wriddle082 on July 08, 2026, 10:09:14 AMSo nobody here is going to talk about the elephant in the room which is the rejection by Charlotte City Council of the NCDOT/Cintra plans for the I-77 South Express Lanes, and the legislative aftermath that has ensued, requiring Charlotte and neighboring cities to repay the engineering costs incurred?
https://www.qcnews.com/charlotte/charlotte-leaders-withdraw-support-of-i-77-expansion-project/
(This is one article, many others are out there.)
I haven't heard of a state trying to get a city to recoup engineering costs for a canceled project. On the face of it, it sounds spiteful. The I-77 express lanes isn't the first project to be canceled for lack of support, either from the public, or a government.
The Charlotte area MPO voted to support the project and include it in its project list. NCDOT then spent multi-millions on the preliminary engineering. Then Charlotte didn't like the project due to the design or more precisely the negative public feedback (it wasn't an easy design fitting the road in the tight corridor.) They then voted to cancel the project they requested. So, NCDOT wants the money it spent on developing the project paid back by the ones (Charlotte) who cancelled the project they initially requested (beyond the usual pre-commitment work.)
Why should the City of Charlotte be punished when the public response was negative enough that it was better to cancel the project?
The double-deck portions of the project might have been too hard to sell to the public. But isn't that also an inherit risk Charlotte and NCDOT accepts in that public opinion might shift against a project?
Quote from: PColumbus73 on July 09, 2026, 08:05:34 AMQuote from: jdunlop on July 09, 2026, 12:47:49 AMQuote from: PColumbus73 on July 08, 2026, 12:34:53 PMQuote from: wriddle082 on July 08, 2026, 10:09:14 AMSo nobody here is going to talk about the elephant in the room which is the rejection by Charlotte City Council of the NCDOT/Cintra plans for the I-77 South Express Lanes, and the legislative aftermath that has ensued, requiring Charlotte and neighboring cities to repay the engineering costs incurred?
https://www.qcnews.com/charlotte/charlotte-leaders-withdraw-support-of-i-77-expansion-project/
(This is one article, many others are out there.)
I haven't heard of a state trying to get a city to recoup engineering costs for a canceled project. On the face of it, it sounds spiteful. The I-77 express lanes isn't the first project to be canceled for lack of support, either from the public, or a government.
The Charlotte area MPO voted to support the project and include it in its project list. NCDOT then spent multi-millions on the preliminary engineering. Then Charlotte didn't like the project due to the design or more precisely the negative public feedback (it wasn't an easy design fitting the road in the tight corridor.) They then voted to cancel the project they requested. So, NCDOT wants the money it spent on developing the project paid back by the ones (Charlotte) who cancelled the project they initially requested (beyond the usual pre-commitment work.)
Why should the City of Charlotte be punished when the public response was negative enough that it was better to cancel the project?
The double-deck portions of the project might have been too hard to sell to the public. But isn't that also an inherit risk Charlotte and NCDOT accepts in that public opinion might shift against a project?
I would submit that the MPO asked for the project, and they're supposed to be the "local voice". It then got too hot politically. (I think both entities knew what the response was going to be, but the MPO pushed for the project originally.) At a minimum, I'd want the MPO (or the local municipalities that voted to terminate the project) to share in the cost of the cancelled project.
Quote from: jdunlop on July 09, 2026, 12:54:37 AMQuote from: mvak36 on July 08, 2026, 05:25:59 PMSo why can't the state just take over the Express lanes like they do on I-485? I wouldn't be excited about giving control of the roads to some foreign company. Those existing I-77 toll lanes seemed empty during rush hour the past few times I've visited Charlotte.
The express lane construction was fully paid for by the private company (they did bid on the contract) with the understanding that essentially all revenue would be paid to them over the contracted time period (50 years.). For the State to take over the lanes, they'd have to pay the private company back the cost of constructing the lanes. It's allowable under the contract, but costly to do so.
It's the only P3 contact in the state for toll roads; other states have done something similar. Virginia's express lanes on 95 and 495 were built (or improved) in the same manner.
At least one Midwest state (Indiana?) sold or leased their existing toll roads to a private company for a quick influx of cash, and now those tolls go to the private company instead of the state.
You are correct that Indiana leased the toll road. Ironically, the first company to operate the lease from 2006 until bankruptcy in 2014 was a joint venture by Cintra Concesiones de Infraestructuras de Transporte SA and Macquarie Infrastructure Group. (source (https://www.in.gov/indot/about-indot/central-office/toll-road-oversight-information/)). Quite possible that Cintra is hiking the rates out of fear of repeating their bankruptcy on the Charlotte I-77 lanes.
The original lease plus amendments gave INDOT 3 lump sum payments equivalent to about $73.3 million per year over 75 years that INDOT can use on other projects. Without the lease, that money would have been tied to the Toll Road and unavailable for use elsewhere. The remaining toll revenue (which I estimate to be anywhere from $300-400 million per year) is used for upkeep of the toll road and the operator pockets the rest. The rates have hiked a good amount since 2006 as the amendments have allowed. I also estimate that 75-80% of revenue is generated from commercial vehicles, per traffic counts and rates.
Perception of the lease is split in Indiana. Many people I know think it is good because we got the better end of the deal, citing the bankruptcy. Others think its like most other government leases where we're losing too much in the long run compared to the lump sum we received. With that said, I think the lease has benefitted the state more than it has taken away, as the Toll Road doesn't have traffic issues (aside from toll barriers) and receives appropriate maintenance.
Quote from: jdunlop on July 09, 2026, 12:54:37 AMQuote from: mvak36 on July 08, 2026, 05:25:59 PMSo why can't the state just take over the Express lanes like they do on I-485? I wouldn't be excited about giving control of the roads to some foreign company. Those existing I-77 toll lanes seemed empty during rush hour the past few times I've visited Charlotte.
The express lane construction was fully paid for by the private company (they did bid on the contract) with the understanding that essentially all revenue would be paid to them over the contracted time period (50 years.). For the State to take over the lanes, they'd have to pay the private company back the cost of constructing the lanes. It's allowable under the contract, but costly to do so.
It's the only P3 contact in the state for toll roads; other states have done something similar. Virginia's express lanes on 95 and 495 were built (or improved) in the same manner.
At least one Midwest state (Indiana?) sold or leased their existing toll roads to a private company for a quick influx of cash, and now those tolls go to the private company instead of the state.
I believe you might be talking about the existing I-77 toll lanes, which Cintra built. I was referring to the new ones that Charlotte cancelled. It might not matter now, but I was just wondering why the state couldn't take on that project and toll it like they are doing on I-485.
Quote from: mvak36 on July 08, 2026, 05:25:59 PMSo why can't the state just take over the Express lanes like they do on I-485? I wouldn't be excited about giving control of the roads to some foreign company. Those existing I-77 toll lanes seemed empty during rush hour the past few times I've visited Charlotte.
Quote from: jdunlop on July 09, 2026, 12:54:37 AMThe express lane construction was fully paid for by the private company (they did bid on the contract) with the understanding that essentially all revenue would be paid to them over the contracted time period (50 years.). For the State to take over the lanes, they'd have to pay the private company back the cost of constructing the lanes. It's allowable under the contract, but costly to do so.
It's the only P3 contact in the state for toll roads; other states have done something similar. Virginia's express lanes on 95 and 495 were built (or improved) in the same manner.
At least one Midwest state (Indiana?) sold or leased their existing toll roads to a private company for a quick influx of cash, and now those tolls go to the private company instead of the state.
Quote from: mvak36 on July 09, 2026, 10:36:28 AMI believe you might be talking about the existing I-77 toll lanes, which Cintra built. I was referring to the new ones that Charlotte cancelled. It might not matter now, but I was just wondering why the state couldn't take on that project and toll it like they are doing on I-485.
There appears to be some misunderstanding running in this thread. Apologies to <jdunlop> as I don't want to be arguing with his professional opinions, but this reply might step on some toes.
When the Regional MPO (Charlotte Regional Transportation Planning Organization) rescinded its support of the public-private partnership for adding toll lanes, the I-77 South widening project simply reverts back to NCDOT as a traditionally-funded STIP project that has a pretty high priority. Ergo, this road is still going to be widened soon. If CRTPO does not subsequently request that the project be transferred back to the North Carolina Turnpike Authority to be funded with [whatever], then this project will have traditional funding and endure a traditional project schedule.
To clarify, for NCDOT to relinquish an STIP to the North Carolina Turnpike Authority for construction as a tolling facility (which includes HOT lanes), the local MPO must make a formal request to the State. (And I suspect that the MPO is expected to support its decision with a planning report that indicates that toll-backed public bonds or in this case, an extension of toll-backed private bonds under a PPP.
It is my understanding that the I-77 South project was not an extension of Cintra's current I-77 HOT Lane contract (although the media seems to think otherwise). However, it is fair to say that Cintra would have had a contract cost/price advantage because of its existing local infrastructure. Whether to say it would be a signficant cost/price advantage in this high-tech world is questionable nowadays.
With respect to Cintra, there are recent media reports about the I-77 North HOT lanes widening proposal (https://www.wfae.org/politics/2026-07-06/state-officials-and-toll-operator-cintra-are-discussing-a-second-i-77-toll-lane-in-the-lake-norman-area), which indeed would expand Cintra's contract to add an additional HOT lane.
Quote from: mvak36 on July 08, 2026, 05:25:59 PMSo why can't the state just take over the Express lanes like they do on I-485? I wouldn't be excited about giving control of the roads to some foreign company. Those existing I-77 toll lanes seemed empty during rush hour the past few times I've visited Charlotte.
So back to your original question. CRTPO could indeed request that the I-77 South project go back to the North Carolina Turnpike Authority (and if my suspicions are correct, they would need to provide a planning report with a funding strategy that avoids the PPP options). But if anything suggests that Cintra could get hold of an extension contract or possibly win a more-traditional non-PPP contract, you can take it to the bank that CRTPO will just simply let NCDOT run this as a traditional lane widening project (no tolls whatsoever). Hope that clarifies.
An MPO is just a committee of its membership. Its main purpose is to facilitate expenditures of federal funds (at least IMHO) by its committee memberships competing for slots on its TIP (transportation improvement program), which then feeds the STIP, along with other MPOs' TIPs and rural projects. Federal funds flow through State DOTs to MPOs. Some MPOs receive a formal suballocation from their DOTs to facilitate programming, others do not (at least in NY, this latter situation causes the MPO's projects to compete with other DOT Regional priorities, which can be a negative, but, in some cases (e.g., being a small city amongst smaller municipalities) a huge benefit).
A project cannot be federally funded within an MPO's metropolitan planning area (MPA) without MPO approval.
If the North Carolina Turnpike Authority takes it over for a non-federally funded project, so be it, but if it ain't on CRTPO's TIP, it cannot be federally funded.
@mvak36, I did interpret your post as being about the existing express lanes, not the proposed ones, sorry 'bout that!
@Rothman, thanks for adding the points about MPOs and federally funded projects.
@Dirt Roads, you explained things better than my rant, no apologies necessary.
I dealt with these municipalities/MPOs for years, and couldn't say anything publicly about their about face (we want this project...no, we're against the project and evil NCDOT for proposing it!, so my comment is somewhat personal.) I did say things on occasion in meetings with the locals (one in particular when a "transportation professional" from the city (not Charlotte in this case) complained about "NCDOT's project", when it was the City pushing it from the start, and the local Division only OK-ing it after my team showed that the (in this case) road diet would work with some modifications. I lit into him during that Teams/Zoom meeting-benefits of being about three months from retirement! Got a few attaboys later from my fellow State people on that call!) I did develop somewhat thick skin from selling "alternative" designs such as roundabouts and RCUTs/Superstreets for 25 or so years (both from locals and far too often from inside the Department.) I'm amused/pleased that both have become fairly routine these days, after battling for so many years.
One thing I don't think will happen: CRTPO will NOT ask for a traditional widening on I-77. That would go against their anti-car montra. It wasn't Cintra's involvement that killed the project (not that it helped) it was the preliminary design's impacts that killed it. So even NCDOT running the lanes as they do with the 485 and Monroe projects won't change their mind on this, IMO.
Quote from: Rothman on July 09, 2026, 04:23:11 PMAn MPO is just a committee of its membership. Its main purpose is to facilitate expenditures of federal funds (at least IMHO) by its committee memberships competing for slots on its TIP (transportation improvement program), which then feeds the STIP, along with other MPOs' TIPs and rural projects. Federal funds flow through State DOTs to MPOs. Some MPOs receive a formal suballocation from their DOTs to facilitate programming, others do not (at least in NY, this latter situation causes the MPO's projects to compete with other DOT Regional priorities, which can be a negative, but, in some cases (e.g., being a small city amongst smaller municipalities) a huge benefit).
A project cannot be federally funded within an MPO's metropolitan planning area (MPA) without MPO approval.
If the North Carolina Turnpike Authority takes it over for a non-federally funded project, so be it, but if it ain't on CRTPO's TIP, it cannot be federally funded.
Good point. But it has been legislated in North Carolina (they use the term "State Law" here perhaps improperly) that no toll roads can be collected unless the regional MPO requests that the project be transferred from NCDOT (juridiction) to North Carolina Turnpike Authority (jurisdiction). The issue here was that [somebody] moved the I-77 South project forward as a PPP and, as a result of poor public perception/reception, the CRTPO withdrew its support for the project (officially, withdrew its request that the project be constructed as a PPP). From all indication, that decision should totally rescind the project from the North Carolina Turnpike Authority (and return it to NCDOT jurisdiction) at least for now.
I have not ever heard of any highway PPP projects that move forward without Federal funding, so the rules that you mention are still in play. <<My obligatory rant about locally-funded projects being much less expensive than Federally-funded projects has been redacted, again.>>
Quote from: jdunlop on July 09, 2026, 05:16:11 PMOne thing I don't think will happen: CRTPO will NOT ask for a traditional widening on I-77. That would go against their anti-car montra. It wasn't Cintra's involvement that killed the project (not that it helped) it was the preliminary design's impacts that killed it. So even NCDOT running the lanes as they do with the 485 and Monroe projects won't change their mind on this, IMO.
That makes sense. HOV Lanes (and by logical jump, perhaps in err, HOT Lanes as well) historically have a perceived environmental benefit as compared to a full-blown free lane widening on a congested freeway. I'm not an expert here, but the thought process is that one new lane running at Level A service during rush hour (and causing an improvement to level-of-service on all the other lanes in the same direction) will reduce "smog" from stop-and-go traffic. From what I can tell, HOT lanes hardly ever improve the level-of-service on all the other lanes (hence my hesitation to assume that HOT lanes will get the same environmental rating).
You are a good person to ask and perhaps <Rothman> as well. Several years ago upthread, I asked whether anyone knew of whether the FHWA still requires the construction of HOV/HOT lanes when a full-blown widening is justified in situations like in South Charlotte. (Those rules were in place back in the late 1990s and were VERY useful for us when we compared the costs of proposed transit projects with the costs of comparable highway projects). Any idea if Federal funding still forces HOV/HOT, or if indeed the MPO has to push for such restrictions?
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 09, 2026, 05:31:37 PM<<My obligatory rant about locally-funded projects being much less expensive than Federally-funded projects has been redacted, again.>>
<<mutters about locally-funded projects being sometimes crap quality because they're not held to higher standards when the states or feds are involved>>
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 09, 2026, 05:31:37 PM<<My obligatory rant about locally-funded projects being much less expensive than Federally-funded projects has been redacted, again.>>
Quote from: Rothman on July 09, 2026, 06:00:18 PM<<mutters about locally-funded projects being sometimes crap quality because they're not held to higher standards when the states or feds are involved>>
One of the hardest things that I ever had to do is judge whether a perhaps desperate low-ball contractor could actually make money on a low bid. (For the record, a low financial score wasn't much of a ding on the RFP evaluation overall scoring and we had to convince the client that they were going to lose money by accepting an underbid). Someone else recommended that the client spend a lot of money to prove that the bid wasn't financially responsible. IIRC, the contractor withdrew their low bid and may have settled for a refund on their costs to prepare a pricy RFP.
In other words, I certainly don't disagree with your concern here.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 09, 2026, 05:46:13 PMYou are a good person to ask and perhaps <Rothman> as well. Several years ago upthread, I asked whether anyone knew of whether the FHWA still requires the construction of HOV/HOT lanes when a full-blown widening is justified in situations like in South Charlotte. (Those rules were in place back in the late 1990s and were VERY useful for us when we compared the costs of proposed transit projects with the costs of comparable highway projects). Any idea if Federal funding still forces HOV/HOT, or if indeed the MPO has to push for such restrictions?
I was in our signals unit in the '90s, so not directly involved in the TIP projects other than designing the signals that were (a small) part of the project. So wasn't aware that FHWA "forced" HOV lanes (don't believe HOT lanes were really a thing then, certainly not in NC.) And I don't recall that it was a thing once I was involved on the traffic analysis side of them from late 1999-on. I think it was a separate funding source for HOVs (I was never very involved in funding, so don't know much detail in that area.)
I do recall that in the early 2000s (don't recall the exact year) NC had no HOV lanes. The then secretary (Lyndo Tippett) wanted to have them somewhere in NC. I was asked to come up with a location. At the time, I-77 north of 85 was slated to be widened. (Don't recall exactly how far north, 85 to Huntersville perhaps? This project predated 485 in the area.) Our analysis based on the volume projections showed that the fourth lane was "extra" capacity, and that marking it as an HOV lane would be OK. So that's how HOV lanes first appeared in NC.
A couple of things. First, our forecasting group REALLY underestimated the growth in the area! :D
Second, the meeting actually was about "thru lanes", as in designating inside lanes as exclusive through lanes, sort of like express/local lanes. I recall mentioning the I-80 setup in Bergen County NJ (separate roadways though) and unofficial lane designations in Richmond where I-64 merged into I-95 (they relatively recently (a couple of years ago) dropped SB 95 to two lanes to give the merging 64 traffic an exclusive lane.) Basically a "heavy merge ahead" situation.
Lastly, those HOV lanes (one N one S) were the basis of the toll lanes that eventually went in, one of the two lanes now used as such. I do recall that a purposely built HOV lane could not be converted to a regular lane if funded by FHWA specifically as such, but since these were not (just designated as HOV) that rule didn't apply.
Regarding HOV/HOT "helping" capacity, I do recall one simulation we did that showed that the weaving traffic from the HOT lane on (I think 77)
hurt the general lanes' capacity/operation due to the lane shifting/weaving the HOT vehicles had to do to get to their exit. I think this was resolved by lengthening the weaving section (moving the HOT exit area further upstream from the target exit.)
All I can say is my transportation-related career started later than the late 1990s, so I don't remember HOT/HOV lanes being mandated, but that doesn't mean they weren't. Certainly aren't now.
Just for the record, the FHWA was requiring a specific level of environmental improvement with respect to the emissions calculations for added lanes. In a few cases (say widening before level-of-service got too bad, it may have been possible to add lanes such that the resulting emissions were indeed lower after the project.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 09, 2026, 09:57:40 PMJust for the record, the FHWA was requiring a specific level of environmental improvement with respect to the emissions calculations for added lanes. In a few cases (say widening before level-of-service got too bad, it may have been possible to add lanes such that the resulting emissions were indeed lower after the project.
Yep, this broader requirement is what I've known.
I contacted NCDOT and the Turnpike Authority about lowering the I-77 initial toll rates to encourage more use of the lanes. The project's purpose was to add capacity to I-77, and that is only realized when the lanes are substantially utilized on a daily basis.
I shared my understanding of the sole purpose of Express Lanes which is to offer the option for everyone at times when they need it, a 45mph or faster free flowing lane for a price that offers a predictable travel time for set distance.
I also cited Atlanta's initial toll rates of 50 cents for several miles long sections and increasing them as the lanes fill up to capacity each rush period. The lanes would be more beneficial to all parties when heavily used at lower toll rates until full.
Here is their response and I'm happy that they shared my suggestion to the group that sets the pricing:
Hi Stephen,
The I-77 Express Lanes are part of a public-private partnership between NCDOT and I-77 Mobility Partners. We have shared your feedback with I-77 Mobility Partners. While NCDOT doesn't set the toll rates, we want to ensure the express lanes are performing as required in the contract and by federal requirements. Since the original contract was signed in 2014, NCDOT has negotiated several key improvements to toll rate transparency, expanded use of the lanes and uniform customer experience. NCDOT will continue to seek opportunities to improve the contract to ensure the best possible experience for all travelers who use the corridor.
We don't want drivers to pay more than they have to — we recommend drivers sign up for an NC Quick Pass account to save 50% on all tolls in North Carolina at ncquickpass.com. NC Quick Pass customers can also travel free in the express lanes with three or more people in the car, a transponder and set HOV status.
So does the NCQuickpass give people a 50% discount on the Express Lane toll prices? I know that is true for the bill by mail price on the other tolled roads statewide.
I also didn't realize that 3 occupants using NCQuickPass can use the Express Lanes for free on I-77.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 09, 2026, 09:57:40 PMJust for the record, the FHWA was requiring a specific level of environmental improvement with respect to the emissions calculations for added lanes. In a few cases (say widening before level-of-service got too bad, it may have been possible to add lanes such that the resulting emissions were indeed lower after the project.
Quote from: Rothman on July 09, 2026, 10:13:11 PMYep, this broader requirement is what I've known.
We transit guys didn't consider that to be a "broad requirement". If you couldn't prove that you could bring down emissions by adding extra lanes, you had to restrict the extra lanes to minimize the additional traffic. If even a small section has an "adverse environmental impact" due to additional emissions, the FHWA does require mitigation [by either HOV or HOT] and as a corollary, the entire corridor gets hit. It was an easy trick for the transit guys to walk into the room and say "I-40 needs an additional 4000 peak VPHPD in the rush hour and they can't get that capacity with two new HOV lanes" (which was sometimes was more expensive than the transit option; sometimes not).
It seems weird that CRTPO would openly announce the preference of HOT over free lanes. The HOT experiment in Charlotte has been very unpopular with the masses (not quite as bad on the I-485 side near Ballantyne). But historically, the benefit of HOT was the immediate impact of additional construction bonds to get the project under construction sooner than if you wait for traditional funding sources.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 10, 2026, 10:22:08 AMQuote from: Dirt Roads on July 09, 2026, 09:57:40 PMJust for the record, the FHWA was requiring a specific level of environmental improvement with respect to the emissions calculations for added lanes. In a few cases (say widening before level-of-service got too bad, it may have been possible to add lanes such that the resulting emissions were indeed lower after the project.
Quote from: Rothman on July 09, 2026, 10:13:11 PMYep, this broader requirement is what I've known.
We transit guys didn't consider that to be a "broad requirement". If you couldn't prove that you could bring down emissions by adding extra lanes, you had to restrict the extra lanes to minimize the additional traffic. If even a small section has an "adverse environmental impact" due to additional emissions, the FHWA does require mitigation [by either HOV or HOT] and as a corollary, the entire corridor gets hit. It was an easy trick for the transit guys to walk into the room and say "I-40 needs an additional 4000 peak VPHPD in the rush hour and they can't get that capacity with two new HOV lanes" (which was sometimes was more expensive than the transit option; sometimes not).
It seems weird that CRTPO would openly announce the preference of HOT over free lanes. The HOT experiment in Charlotte has been very unpopular with the masses (not quite as bad on the I-485 side near Ballantyne). But historically, the benefit of HOT was the immediate impact of additional construction bonds to get the project under construction sooner than if you wait for traditional funding sources.
I don't know what year all of this is referring to, but emissions for new cars drastically decreased over the last 20 years. My 2011 car is SULEV which I believe is the type that greatly reduced impact on air quality and is one of the reasons LA went from always smoggy in the 90s to today where the San Gabriel mountains are always visible now unlike in the 90s when only on the day after it rained could you see them at all.
They say that one lawnmower engine now emits the same as 20 new passenger cars. Does anyone know if this ended restrictions on adding general purpose lanes? It would make sense if that was the case.
As I understand it today there are no HOT lanes in NC only Express Lanes which are different. Express Lanes offer a free flowing lane at 45mph or faster and are regulated to maintain that minimum speed.
HOT lanes as I understand them are paying for single occupant vehicles to use HOV lanes. The flow is not regulated via dynamic pricing in an HOV lanes or HOT lane. It's just a set price for a certain distance.
I support mass transit, however I don't agree that it's an equal alternative to vehicle lanes because transit only serve people and 50% or more of all highway usage is transporting food, products and materials.
Lanes are universally beneficial for all commerce and for meeting the needs of an entire population. They also are user-funded with a little supplement from general tax revenue, and transit requires 75% of its annual operating costs to be funded by all local citizens' paying extra sales taxes whether they use it or not. It works out to be about $300 per citizen per year if paying 1.5% extra sales taxes on every purchase.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 09, 2026, 09:57:40 PMJust for the record, the FHWA was requiring a specific level of environmental improvement with respect to the emissions calculations for added lanes. In a few cases (say widening before level-of-service got too bad, it may have been possible to add lanes such that the resulting emissions were indeed lower after the project.
Quote from: Rothman on July 09, 2026, 10:13:11 PMYep, this broader requirement is what I've known.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 10, 2026, 10:22:08 AMWe transit guys didn't consider that to be a "broad requirement". If you couldn't prove that you could bring down emissions by adding extra lanes, you had to restrict the extra lanes to minimize the additional traffic. If even a small section has an "adverse environmental impact" due to additional emissions, the FHWA does require mitigation [by either HOV or HOT] and as a corollary, the entire corridor gets hit. It was an easy trick for the transit guys to walk into the room and say "I-40 needs an additional 4000 peak VPHPD in the rush hour and they can't get that capacity with two new HOV lanes" (which was sometimes was more expensive than the transit option; sometimes not).
It seems weird that CRTPO would openly announce the preference of HOT over free lanes. The HOT experiment in Charlotte has been very unpopular with the masses (not quite as bad on the I-485 side near Ballantyne). But historically, the benefit of HOT was the immediate impact of additional construction bonds to get the project under construction sooner than if you wait for traditional funding sources.
Quote from: architect77 on July 10, 2026, 03:47:31 PMI don't know what year all of this is referring to, but emissions for new cars drastically decreased over the last 20 years. My 2011 car is SULEV which I believe is the type that greatly reduced impact on air quality and is one of the reasons LA went from always smoggy in the 90s to today where the San Gabriel mountains are always visible now unlike in the 90s when only on the day after it rained could you see them at all.
They say that one lawnmower engine now emits the same as 20 new passenger cars. Does anyone know if this ended restrictions on adding general purpose lanes? It would make sense if that was the case.
I've certainly been wondering the same thing. Here in Orange County NC, the high rate of adoption of newer cars allowed us to eliminate the need for emissions testing altogether, even with a 15% growth since 2010. All of the only counties in the area are still required to have emission testing every other year.
Quote from: architect77 on July 10, 2026, 03:47:31 PMAs I understand it today there are no HOT lanes in NC only Express Lanes which are different. Express Lanes offer a free flowing lane at 45mph or faster and are regulated to maintain that minimum speed.
HOT lanes as I understand them are paying for single occupant vehicles to use HOV lanes. The flow is not regulated via dynamic pricing in an HOV lanes or HOT lane. It's just a set price for a certain distance.
Somebody correct me, but your definition of Express Lane seems to be the same as the I-495 HOT Lanes and I-66 HOT in Northern Virginia.
Quote from: architect77 on July 10, 2026, 03:47:31 PMI support mass transit, however I don't agree that it's an equal alternative to vehicle lanes because transit only serve people and 50% or more of all highway usage is transporting food, products and materials.
Lanes are universally beneficial for all commerce and for meeting the needs of an entire population. They also are user-funded with a little supplement from general tax revenue, and transit requires 75% of its annual operating costs to be funded by all local citizens' paying extra sales taxes whether they use it or not. It works out to be about $300 per citizen per year if paying 1.5% extra sales taxes on every purchase.
There is always a misunderstanding that a rail transit is somehow competing* against local highway funding (and even I would like to think so). But local highway projects are competing against other highway projects for rankings in their state's STIP. And local rail transit project are competing against other large transit projects across the nation.
What is important here is that the Federal Transit Administration requires a robust Alternatives Analysis, which almost always pits the preferred rail technology against less expensive forms of rail transit and bus rapid transit along the same corridor. The AA also pits the preferred rail technology against both (A) upgrades to the existing traditional bus transit system to accommodate the same numbers of peak passengers; and (B) upgrades to the existing highway infrastructure to accommodate the same numbers of peak car passengers with the appropriate increase to peak VPHPD (back in my days, we were only assuming 1.2 passengers per car on average). On most transit planning efforts, something other than rail transit wins the Alternative Analysis and the project is shelved.
Local transportation planners sometimes get thrown for a loop when a [marginal] rail transit project actually makes it through the AA selection process. There's a perception that such a rail transit project (which is projected to pull a certain small percentage of passengers out of cars) eliminated the need for additional lanes on a parallel freeway or arterial. And sometimes we see DOTs that yank a deserving highway widening project out of the STIP, when in reality, our construction would necessitate higher roadway capacities in the surrounding areas.
* For the record, most states and local jurisdictions do encounter funding issues if parallel routes are under construction during the same/similar timeframes. So in that sense, rail transit and highway can be in competition for a certain amount of funding. Charlotte may be facing that right now with parallel needs to widen the I-77 North HOT lanes while at the same time pull off a New Start with the parallel Red Line Commuter Rail system.
Quote from: architect77 on July 10, 2026, 03:47:31 PMI support mass transit, however I don't agree that it's an equal alternative to vehicle lanes because transit only serve people and 50% or more of all highway usage is transporting food, products and materials. Lanes are universally beneficial for all commerce and for meeting the needs of an entire population.
I used to agree with you here. But with the advent of the emissions calculations used for highway widening alternatives (making it nearly impossible to avoid HOV lanes), it became obvious in the mid-1990s that the added lanes did not improve the transport of goods and materials except in the off-peak hours. Most huge cities now have heavy traffic for 10 or more hours in each direction (overlapped in midday) such that the only free flow periods are midnights and weekends. If the MPO didn't want HOV lanes, it would take so long to qualify for a lane widening project that the additional lanes were already choked before they were constructed. Fortunately, neither Charlotte nor Raleigh/Durham are that big yet. But Atlanta certainly is.
On the other hand, it is not appropriate to assume that a parallel rail transit system will reduce the demand for a freeway into the core of a huge city. But the Southeast Florida experiment (known as Tri-Rail) did prove that a parallel rail corridor can assist with the total reconstruction of an old freeway corridor. Seems that nobody got the memo yet.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 10, 2026, 07:10:12 PMQuote from: architect77 on July 10, 2026, 03:47:31 PMI support mass transit, however I don't agree that it's an equal alternative to vehicle lanes because transit only serve people and 50% or more of all highway usage is transporting food, products and materials.
Lanes are universally beneficial for all commerce and for meeting the needs of an entire population. They also are user-funded with a little supplement from general tax revenue, and transit requires 75% of its annual operating costs to be funded by all local citizens' paying extra sales taxes whether they use it or not. It works out to be about $300 per citizen per year if paying 1.5% extra sales taxes on every purchase.
There is always a misunderstanding that a rail transit is somehow competing* against local highway funding (and even I would like to think so). But local highway projects are competing against other highway projects for rankings in their state's STIP. And local rail transit project are competing against other large transit projects across the nation.
What is important here is that the Federal Transit Administration requires a robust Alternatives Analysis, which almost always pits the preferred rail technology against less expensive forms of rail transit and bus rapid transit along the same corridor. The AA also pits the preferred rail technology against both (A) upgrades to the existing traditional bus transit system to accommodate the same numbers of peak passengers; and (B) upgrades to the existing highway infrastructure to accommodate the same numbers of peak car passengers with the appropriate increase to peak VPHPD (back in my days, we were only assuming 1.2 passengers per car on average). On most transit planning efforts, something other than rail transit wins the Alternative Analysis and the project is shelved.
Local transportation planners sometimes get thrown for a loop when a [marginal] rail transit project actually makes it through the AA selection process. There's a perception that such a rail transit project (which is projected to pull a certain small percentage of passengers out of cars) eliminated the need for additional lanes on a parallel freeway or arterial. And sometimes we see DOTs that yank a deserving highway widening project out of the STIP, when in reality, our construction would necessitate higher roadway capacities in the surrounding areas.
* For the record, most states and local jurisdictions do encounter funding issues if parallel routes are under construction during the same/similar timeframes. So in that sense, rail transit and highway can be in competition for a certain amount of funding. Charlotte may be facing that right now with parallel needs to widen the I-77 North HOT lanes while at the same time pull off a New Start with the parallel Red Line Commuter Rail system.
Quote from: architect77 on July 10, 2026, 03:47:31 PMI support mass transit, however I don't agree that it's an equal alternative to vehicle lanes because transit only serve people and 50% or more of all highway usage is transporting food, products and materials. Lanes are universally beneficial for all commerce and for meeting the needs of an entire population.
I used to agree with you here. But with the advent of the emissions calculations used for highway widening alternatives (making it nearly impossible to avoid HOV lanes), it became obvious in the mid-1990s that the added lanes did not improve the transport of goods and materials except in the off-peak hours. Most huge cities now have heavy traffic for 10 or more hours in each direction (overlapped in midday) such that the only free flow periods are midnights and weekends. If the MPO didn't want HOV lanes, it would take so long to qualify for a lane widening project that the additional lanes were already choked before they were constructed. Fortunately, neither Charlotte nor Raleigh/Durham are that big yet. But Atlanta certainly is.
On the other hand, it is not appropriate to assume that a parallel rail transit system will reduce the demand for a freeway into the core of a huge city. But the Southeast Florida experiment (known as Tri-Rail) did prove that a parallel rail corridor can assist with the total reconstruction of an old freeway corridor. Seems that nobody got the memo yet.
I'm glad Charlotte owns the track for the commuter line alongside I-77. The city center hosts enough jobs that it should be a success. Yes you can apply for federal help for construction costs like with the next LRT line. The operating costs each year afterwards is over time probably the bigger expense that the feds won't pay for.
But NC's successful intrastate service through central NC is a winner and should be enhanced with additional lines which is likely.
But I-77 can't receive major state funding for a long while after the region got so much from 2010-2023 with the 8-lane I-85 and the concrete pavement and deluxe North and Western I-485 projects. Even with the scoring which it a good new system, other areas of the state wait and take turns for major funding. Construction costs since 2018 are up 70% and the Raleigh area has had 9 projects delayed until 2031-2035 even US1 North of Raleigh which is so urgent. Charlotte is getting another lane on I-85 to Gastonia already underway, and the area has the biggest and nicest freeways in the state. Lucky you.
I am all for Express Lanes as they operate in Atlanta because you can keep them free-flowing forever into the future with dynamic pricing.
But as of now Cintra is not operating the North I-77 lanes appropriately to serve the intended purpose with such egregious base toll rates. I cannot believe anyone in Charlotte or NCDOT would even consider entering another agreement with them based on the feelings of the $5 for 2 miles overcharging with a $40 total or so for the entire length of the lanes.
I wasn't even commenting on whether free or new tolled lanes should be added. I just wanted to make the point that mass transit and highways are not equal in terms of universal use and benefit. Highways accommodate every business and 70% of all US freight. Mass transit moves people only for a relatively high cost of ~ $14 per ride and fare revenue covers 1/4 of the total operating expenses, and additional sales taxes on every purchase covers the other 3/4. I have to be honest that Atlanta''s 8.9% sale tax is a burden, and for every $1000 purchase it's almost $100 in sales tax so it's substantial. Day after day small purchases have you paying $5 here $7 dollars there in sales tax. It sucks. Mecklenburg residents are just beginning to feel what 8.25% sales tax now?
50% of all traffic is transporting goods, and growing regions require keeping capacity commensurate with the increased population needing food, materials, fuel, etc.
I still want to find out if the air quality based restrictions on additional highway construction is still active now that cars are cleaner.
I've read about Atlanta's federal restrictions since the 1990s about building additional highways. It must be the stagnant Southeast air at various times a year that mandated several NC counties and metro Atlanta to need annual emissions tests. But I read 2 years ago that NC counties no longer needed them anymore despite the growth and I think the state stopped requiring them. I know that Mecklenburg Co. barely missed meeting the threshold at that time so testing continued for another year.
As far as the hours per day that freeways flow freely, I think there are a whole lot of factors that play into that, like when you compare the extensive freeway connectivity in Dallas compared to Atlanta which didn't expanded its footprint at all really from the original 1960s layout.
Metro Atlanta as a result forces 1/4 of the population to use just one trunk interstate in each cardinal direction to traverse the region and 1 fender bender can make 200,000 people late for work. It's not ideal but Georgia is not a prolific road building state like NC has always been.
Come to think of it, NY's attainment area/CMAQ eligibility shrank considerably when feds reassessed it a decade ago or so. Only Upstate area eligible now is Chautauqua County (thanks, Ohio).
So, I'd imagine other eligibilities may have changed accordingly.
Quote from: architect77 on July 12, 2026, 03:10:30 AMBut I-77 can't receive major state funding for a long while after the region got so much from 2010-2023 with the 8-lane I-85 and the concrete pavement and deluxe North and Western I-485 projects. Even with the scoring which it a good new system, other areas of the state wait and take turns for major funding. Construction costs since 2018 are up 70% and the Raleigh area has had 9 projects delayed until 2031-2035 even US1 North of Raleigh which is so urgent. Charlotte is getting another lane on I-85 to Gastonia already underway, and the area has the biggest and nicest freeways in the state. Lucky you.
That used to be true when our STIP was a strictly statewide programme and NCDOT was attempting to balance the funding between urban and rural corridors. But now we have a tiered-STIP programme that funds one set of statewide priority corridors (40%); funds other corridors on a regional priority basis (30%); and also as well as other highway needs on a district priority basis (30%). (Although I worded this the way that the STIP is supposed to work, my understanding is that an Interstate project that missed getting funding on the statewide priority list actually could get funded on the regional or district priority lists, but certainly at the risk of reducing the total numbers of projects that could receive funding if the Interstate project is huge and expensive).
Quote from: architect77 on July 12, 2026, 03:10:30 AMI still want to find out if the air quality based restrictions on additional highway construction is still active now that cars are cleaner.
I've read about Atlanta's federal restrictions since the 1990s about building additional highways. It must be the stagnant Southeast air at various times a year that mandated several NC counties and metro Atlanta to need annual emissions tests. But I read 2 years ago that NC counties no longer needed them anymore despite the growth and I think the state stopped requiring them. I know that Mecklenburg Co. barely missed meeting the threshold at that time so testing continued for another year.
At least for now, NCDMV still requires emission testing in 19 counties. In addition to a wide swath across the I-85 Corridor (plus Raleigh), it still includes the counties surrounding Asheville, Fayetteville and Wilmington. I should also mention that Orange County has been the only missing piece in the swath.
With respect to your question about how the FHWA Environmental Review process affects the construction of additional lanes, it is my impression that emphasis on the term "stewardship" pushes more of the decision making responsibility onto the states and their regional MPOs. That should help the process, since the primary goal (irrespective of any political viewpoint) is to avoid rush hour situations whereby all vehicles operate at stop-and-go (LOS Level F) for several hours at a time.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 12, 2026, 01:47:06 PMAt least for now, NCDMV still requires emission testing in 19 counties. In addition to a wide swath across the I-85 Corridor (plus Raleigh), it still includes the counties surrounding Asheville, Fayetteville and Wilmington. I should also mention that Orange County has been the only missing piece in the swath.
Those 19 counties account for just over 60% of North Carolina's population. I was suspecting a number much higher.
"Programme"?
*raises eyebrow*
:D
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 12, 2026, 01:47:06 PMThat used to be true when our STIP was a strictly statewide programme and NCDOT was attempting to balance the funding between urban and rural corridors. But now we have a tiered-STIP programme that funds one set of statewide priority corridors (40%); funds other corridors on a regional priority basis (30%); and also as well as other highway needs on a district priority basis (30%). (Although I worded this the way that the STIP is supposed to work, my understanding is that an Interstate project that missed getting funding on the statewide priority list actually could get funded on the regional or district priority lists, but certainly at the risk of reducing the total numbers of projects that could receive funding if the Interstate project is huge and expensive).
Yes, that's how the tiers work. If a project doesn't get funded at the statewide level, it can drop to either the regional (made up of two divisions) or division levels. (NCDOT is divided into 14 Divisions, which are then divided into (mostly) 3 districts per Division. Other states, such as Florida call the larger area a District.) The funding for statewide projects is 100% data driven, while the other two tiers (equal money per region/division) are 70/30 data/local input and 50/50.
It would be rare (IIRC) that a statewide project gets funded in lower tiers, especially in urban areas. They typically have other priorities. It doesn't happen too often at the Division level either.
There is a "corridor cap" that limits the amount of money that can be spent on one "segment" of road during a certain period of time. Those definitions have changed a bit since I was involved, so I can't tell you what those limits are. The toll roads are subject to that cap, but I believe the toll revenue spent on a project is not included in the cap calculations.