I am from Texas, and went through Mahwah, NJ last week. What do you call Hwy 17, a freeway? Parkway? Blvd?
Never seen a roadway with 55 mph, concrete barrier down the middle requiring you to go 4 miles out of your way to U-turn, yet have businesses have direct access to it (suicidal trying to pull out of a gas station with traffic barreling down on you), no access roads, and no traffic lights.
Its frustrating, yet genius at the same time, I see how it such a design cuts down on cross traffic bottlenecks.
Some refer to this as a "Jersey freeway." Route 17 (as it is spoken there) had businesses and at-grade intersections before it had overpasses and a barrier. The last light north of US 46 in Hasbrouck Heights was removed in the late 1980s.
Reading, PA has a short Jersey freeway (PA 12 between U.S. 222/422 and PA 183).
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3529092,-75.9545677,3a,75y,36.37h,83.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVJuokbtvWwRhCCiPBc8IpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
ixnay
There are many, many of these roads in the northeast. US-1 is in this style for much of it's run through CT, RI and especially MA. However, I have never heard any explicit name for them, though most refer to them as either a boulevard or a highway (highway meaning freeway. In the northeast most call a freeway a "highway", or if they are referring to a freeway with an "expressway" name, then they sometimes call it an "expressway").
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 16, 2015, 11:41:59 AM
Some refer to this as a "Jersey freeway." Route 17 (as it is spoken there) had businesses and at-grade intersections before it had overpasses and a barrier. The last light north of US 46 in Hasbrouck Heights was removed in the late 1980s.
Yes it was in Ramsey the last light around Lake Street. I remember driving around in my Ford Mustang checking out the 287 road work where it now interchanges with NJ 17, and remember them building the overpass for Lake Street with both Lake and the shopping plaza next to it having two lights. After that it was not until just south of US 46 was the next one and none before that construction area either.
I had my Mustang from 1985 to 1989, so it had to be either 87 or 88 as I think 85 and 86 was too early for work completed in 1993 for a freeway even in mountainous New Jersey. Heck I-78 in PA started in 1986 and finished in 1990, and that was because of the hills around Easton and Bethlehem that took it around 4 full years. 1987, would be about right for those signals being removed.
Also NJ 4 is a Jersey Freeway as well with no lights east of NJ 208, and parts of US 46 in Bergen County east of I-95, between Clifton and NJ 159 at Fairfield, and even US 22 east of New Providence Road in Mountainside. Even US 30 along Admiral Wilson Blvd. in Camden is a road like Route 17, and the NJ 33 & NJ 34 brief concurrency in Howell is one but no overpasses. Just no median breaks where you have to u turn at each end of that concurrency which is almost two miles long.
Quote from: AMLNet49 on October 16, 2015, 08:56:02 PM
There are many, many of these roads in the northeast. US-1 is in this style for much of it's run through CT, RI and especially MA. However, I have never heard any explicit name for them, though most refer to them as either a boulevard or a highway (highway meaning freeway. In the northeast most call a freeway a "highway", or if they are referring to a freeway with an "expressway" name, then they sometimes call it an "expressway").
Where does US 1 become a Jersey freeway in Connecticut? That's news to me. The state has very few grade separations that aren't on expressways or parkways.
Quote from: dgolub on October 17, 2015, 09:51:06 AM
Quote from: AMLNet49 on October 16, 2015, 08:56:02 PM
There are many, many of these roads in the northeast. US-1 is in this style for much of it's run through CT, RI and especially MA. However, I have never heard any explicit name for them, though most refer to them as either a boulevard or a highway (highway meaning freeway. In the northeast most call a freeway a "highway", or if they are referring to a freeway with an "expressway" name, then they sometimes call it an "expressway").
Where does US 1 become a Jersey freeway in Connecticut? That's news to me. The state has very few grade separations that aren't on expressways or parkways.
Not a whole lot I don't think in CT. Just in East Haven really, where it's a jersey freeway in a frontage road style, I think that was the only spot I was thinking about.
US 1 in CT a "jersey freeway"? I think not. Except the aforementioned East Haven section, and that's only a mile or so.
In Mass, for sure, especially the section from the MA 60 circle, though Saugus and Peabody, up to Danvers.
In RI, sort of... but with median u-turns and a lot more "rural" than the territory NJ 17 passes through
It is in NH along its Bypass near the ME Border.
Also US 69 in Overland Park, KS used to be one until Home Depot opened up.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 17, 2015, 03:16:13 PM
It is in NH along its Bypass near the ME Border.
Only a <1 mile leg of Bypass 1 north of the circle really counts. The rest has traffic lights and at-grade intersections.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 17, 2015, 04:27:53 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 17, 2015, 03:16:13 PM
It is in NH along its Bypass near the ME Border.
Only a <1 mile leg of Bypass 1 north of the circle really counts. The rest has traffic lights and at-grade intersections.
Bypass 1 isn't 1. 1 goes through Portsmouth. It's one of the only cases where the main highway is the "business" route (and not even bannered, which is why I know this).
You're right, and after I wrote this I realized the split is further north than I remembered. There is a mix of lights and grade separation between there and the circle, with full grade separation in the segment I noted (north of which is another light before the Long Bridge).
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 20, 2015, 10:26:18 AM
You're right, and after I wrote this I realized the split is further north than I remembered. There is a mix of lights and grade separation between there and the circle, with full grade separation in the segment I noted (north of which is another light before the Long Bridge).
Let me check that one out too.
Heh... last time I was road tripping up that way I took US 1 from NYC down towards Philly thinking it would be a proper Jersey freeway... not so much... ended up losing about an hour compared to the turnpike.
Quote from: MrDisco99 on October 22, 2015, 04:25:19 PM
Heh... last time I was road tripping up that way I took US 1 from NYC down towards Philly thinking it would be a proper Jersey freeway... not so much... ended up losing about an hour compared to the turnpike.
Twenty-five years ago, it was a shortcut. Traffic increase on Route 1 and the recent Turnpike expansion change the game somewhat.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 22, 2015, 06:27:27 PM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on October 22, 2015, 04:25:19 PM
Heh... last time I was road tripping up that way I took US 1 from NYC down towards Philly thinking it would be a proper Jersey freeway... not so much... ended up losing about an hour compared to the turnpike.
Twenty-five years ago, it was a shortcut. Traffic increase on Route 1 and the recent Turnpike expansion change the game somewhat.
Route 1 is a good alternative south of exit 9 if you're well outside rush hour; otherwise, you're setting yourself up for misery.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 22, 2015, 06:27:27 PM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on October 22, 2015, 04:25:19 PM
Heh... last time I was road tripping up that way I took US 1 from NYC down towards Philly thinking it would be a proper Jersey freeway... not so much... ended up losing about an hour compared to the turnpike.
Twenty-five years ago, it was a shortcut. Traffic increase on Route 1 and the recent Turnpike expansion change the game somewhat.
I can tell you about US 1 between New Brunswick and Trenton as I saw the boom there take place starting in 1985 onward.
It was a great road, even though many lights on it, as at one time NJDOT knew how to time lights so you could travel through many without getting nailed at one. It was hardship on the side roads as you had long waits for a green, but it kept the road moving.
Then the Forrestal Center along with Carnagie Center was developed shortly followed by a strip mall here and there. Also NJDOT allowed for two new signals in North Brunswick between NJ 26 and US 130 to be installed, in which that stretch was a Jersey Freeway for years. Many of us at Prudential, when I worked in Iselin at the office at 131A (now 131)of the Parkway had a hefty discussion about those two signals which were for new developments consisting of a Pathmark and new apartments.
Pretty much it really went from rural to suburbia so did the patterns of traffic as more shopping, homes, apartments, and offices will add to the roadway which was only four lanes at the time. Now, I see many parts are six to eight lanes.
So how well does this pseudo not boulevard, yet not freeway design move traffic?
Quote from: longhorn on October 23, 2015, 10:29:02 AM
So how well does this pseudo not boulevard, yet not freeway design move traffic?
I would say it strikes a decent balance. These are generally roads where the development alongside, something that started in many cases before "freeway" was a thing, creates a lot of the traffic and simultaneously requires a certain capacity for very frequent driveway entering and exiting. On Route 17, traffic is slow during peak shopping times, but it moves. Most of the worst bottlenecks (with one 4-lane exception) have been removed.
Most importantly, people in New Jersey are used to this type of setup and it's unlikely many of them consider that it's at all peculiar to their area.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 23, 2015, 12:42:27 PM
Most importantly, people in New Jersey are used to this type of setup and it's unlikely many of them consider that it's at all peculiar to their area.
this is a very good point.
Oh yes, we in New Jersey used to accept jug handles and other obstacles as normal. In fact when I moved to Florida and saw that some traffic issues were addressed by construction projects, I thought it was weird to see.
Back in NJ, NJ 495 we considered traffic at a crawl into the Lincoln Tunnel to be normal as well as other major roadways with constant jams. We never complained at all about, except we all left for work early and planned for the delays. Florida compared to New Jersey, even with its long PDE studies and permits and all, has too many things with roads handed to them practically.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 23, 2015, 12:42:27 PMMost importantly, people in New Jersey are used to this type of setup and it's unlikely many of them consider that it's at all peculiar to their area.
Maybe northern Jerseyans are used to it. But as a former south Jerseyan, it was a new experience when I finally had the chance to experience some of NJ 4. Whoa no traffic lights and interchanges but driveways to shopping centers etc along the highway? Well that's different.
I can only think of one small stretch of Jersey freeway in south Jersey and I don't recall being on it before: Admiral Wilson Blvd.
But Jughandles. Yeah got those.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 23, 2015, 08:53:59 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 22, 2015, 06:27:27 PM
Quote from: MrDisco99 on October 22, 2015, 04:25:19 PM
Heh... last time I was road tripping up that way I took US 1 from NYC down towards Philly thinking it would be a proper Jersey freeway... not so much... ended up losing about an hour compared to the turnpike.
Twenty-five years ago, it was a shortcut. Traffic increase on Route 1 and the recent Turnpike expansion change the game somewhat.
I can tell you about US 1 between New Brunswick and Trenton as I saw the boom there take place starting in 1985 onward.
It was a great road, even though many lights on it, as at one time NJDOT knew how to time lights so you could travel through many without getting nailed at one. It was hardship on the side roads as you had long waits for a green, but it kept the road moving.
Then the Forrestal Center along with Carnagie Center was developed shortly followed by a strip mall here and there. Also NJDOT allowed for two new signals in North Brunswick between NJ 26 and US 130 to be installed, in which that stretch was a Jersey Freeway for years. Many of us at Prudential, when I worked in Iselin at the office at 131A (now 131)of the Parkway had a hefty discussion about those two signals which were for new developments consisting of a Pathmark and new apartments.
Pretty much it really went from rural to suburbia so did the patterns of traffic as more shopping, homes, apartments, and offices will add to the roadway which was only four lanes at the time. Now, I see many parts are six to eight lanes.
A lot of rural divided highways in Florida were pretty much freeways in traffic movement.. Now chocked with suburban development. Like US 1 between Jacksonville and St Augustine or US 27near Clermont
Quote from: odditude on October 23, 2015, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 23, 2015, 12:42:27 PM
Most importantly, people in New Jersey are used to this type of setup and it's unlikely many of them consider that it's at all peculiar to their area.
this is a very good point.
Yes, US 1 and US 27 in those locations saddens me. Also US 27 had the 65 mph speed limit from I-4 to just south of Clermont which is now 45 in many places thanks to Lake County saying yes to land raping!
US 1, will probably go back to 55 soon. I have not been on it since 2008, so I imagine some new signals have been added to it between St. Augustine and Bayard. I remember in 1983 when no signals existed between I-95 near the current Avenues Mall and SR 16 in St. Augustine. The SR 115 intersection was without a signal which now you could not imagine it being without one. Plus the interchange with I-95 was a rural one with only one gas station at it.
Believe me we in Florida are getting tired of this sprawl taking over farm lands. Ask flaroads and he is disgusted with Pasco County letting SR 54 transform into a suburban arterial from a road that not too long ago was two lanes and in a farm land environment. We do get mad when extra traffic is now caused by rapid development places more cars on the road. Roads like OBT that were free flowing in the 90's now takes almost a half hour to go what used to be ten minutes in the Florida Mall area. Heck in Southchase we have a signal that I call Luis, named after a flaky nutcase I unfortunately know who worships at my church who lives in the apartment complex nearby that is in part to why the signal was installed created a change in flow on OBT drastically after the signal was turned on permanently. Before the light was there it was so good to travel OBT between 417 and Wetherbee Road. Now this one light backs up traffic into long queues especially in the right lane SB making my turn into nearby Deerfield Blvd a chore that it never was over 2 years ago.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 23, 2015, 07:49:44 PM
Yes, US 1 and US 27 in those locations saddens me. Also US 27 had the 65 mph speed limit from I-4 to just south of Clermont which is now 45 in many places thanks to Lake County saying yes to land raping!
US 1, will probably go back to 55 soon. I have not been on it since 2008, so I imagine some new signals have been added to it between St. Augustine and Bayard. I remember in 1983 when no signals existed between I-95 near the current Avenues Mall and SR 16 in St. Augustine. The SR 115 intersection was without a signal which now you could not imagine it being without one. Plus the interchange with I-95 was a rural one with only one gas station at it.
Believe me we in Florida are getting tired of this sprawl taking over farm lands. Ask flaroads and he is disgusted with Pasco County letting SR 54 transform into a suburban arterial from a road that not too long ago was two lanes and in a farm land environment. We do get mad when extra traffic is now caused by rapid development places more cars on the road. Roads like OBT that were free flowing in the 90's now takes almost a half hour to go what used to be ten minutes in the Florida Mall area. Heck in Southchase we have a signal that I call Luis, named after a flaky nutcase I unfortunately know who worships at my church who lives in the apartment complex nearby that is in part to why the signal was installed created a change in flow on OBT drastically after the signal was turned on permanently. Before the light was there it was so good to travel OBT between 417 and Wetherbee Road. Now this one light backs up traffic into long queues especially in the right lane SB making my turn into nearby Deerfield Blvd a chore that it never was over 2 years ago.
Florida is a place where everyone visits. The sprawl can't be stopped, a lot more people are coming to the U.S. than ever before. What can we do? We have no choice but to let them in, but how do we combat Florida sprawl, reaching into other states? That's the big money question.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 23, 2015, 07:49:44 PM
Yes, US 1 and US 27 in those locations saddens me. Also US 27 had the 65 mph speed limit from I-4 to just south of Clermont which is now 45 in many places thanks to Lake County saying yes to land raping!
US 1, will probably go back to 55 soon. I have not been on it since 2008, so I imagine some new signals have been added to it between St. Augustine and Bayard. I remember in 1983 when no signals existed between I-95 near the current Avenues Mall and SR 16 in St. Augustine. The SR 115 intersection was without a signal which now you could not imagine it being without one. Plus the interchange with I-95 was a rural one with only one gas station at it.
Believe me we in Florida are getting tired of this sprawl taking over farm lands. Ask flaroads and he is disgusted with Pasco County letting SR 54 transform into a suburban arterial from a road that not too long ago was two lanes and in a farm land environment. We do get mad when extra traffic is now caused by rapid development places more cars on the road. Roads like OBT that were free flowing in the 90's now takes almost a half hour to go what used to be ten minutes in the Florida Mall area. Heck in Southchase we have a signal that I call Luis, named after a flaky nutcase I unfortunately know who worships at my church who lives in the apartment complex nearby that is in part to why the signal was installed created a change in flow on OBT drastically after the signal was turned on permanently. Before the light was there it was so good to travel OBT between 417 and Wetherbee Road. Now this one light backs up traffic into long queues especially in the right lane SB making my turn into nearby Deerfield Blvd a chore that it never was over 2 years ago.
I have talked to people who are up in Orlando.. It was all Orange groves in Maitland.. Like Ocean County in NJ.. Went from 50k population to 500k in 50 years ... And that is with much of the county in the Pinelands Preserve
It was Orange Groves even in the Holden Heights section of Orange County as well. Even behind the red light district businesses on OBT there was groves especially behind those between Oakridge Road and Holden Avenues.
Then Osceola County west of Dismal World, there were groves where Orange Lake Resort Community is, and all along CR 545 from US 192 to CR 532. Now that part is being developed for timeshares and golf courses, and even CR 532 from CR 545 to I-4 was a rural two lane road with 55 mph, is now a four lane arterial with a 45 mph (Osceola County is backwards as when the widen a roadway instead of raising the speed limit by 5 mph, they actually lower it 10 mph of what it was) and all Orange Groves are now residential or part of a resort.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 24, 2015, 11:34:08 AM
It was Orange Groves even in the Holden Heights section of Orange County as well. Even behind the red light district businesses on OBT there was groves especially behind those between Oakridge Road and Holden Avenues.
Then Osceola County west of Dismal World, there were groves where Orange Lake Resort Community is, and all along CR 545 from US 192 to CR 532. Now that part is being developed for timeshares and golf courses, and even CR 532 from CR 545 to I-4 was a rural two lane road with 55 mph, is now a four lane arterial with a 45 mph (Osceola County is backwards as when the widen a roadway instead of raising the speed limit by 5 mph, they actually lower it 10 mph of what it was) and all Orange Groves are now residential or part of a resort.
I was just out there in September. My brother and his family stayed in Reunion ( what f----in' stupid place name along with Celebration) you can see CR 545 is a rural 2 Lane road that has opulent golf course resorts all around.
Yes that Old Lake Wilson Road area. Its a shame. I remember back in 1990 when there were absolutely no stop lights west of I-4 on US 192. Formosa Gardens was not there, also Westgate was not there (my old boss David Siegal who if that "Name a street after someone you do not like" thread years ago would have loved to contribute his name for Turkey Lake Road in Orlando where his "Westgate Lakes" resort is now), then you have the in between tourist shops and motels which ruined that part of the area as well.
As far as Celebration goes please watch what you say about that. I have friends who live there and its a nice community of people. I belong to the Knights of Columbus there and they do wonders. And for those of you smart asses who want to say that our nature of being secretive makes us evil and violent, you are so wrong. Before someone comes in to point out the rumors about what they hear, its not true. Only our ceremonials are secret, but not what we do. We take a pledge of secrecy as much as we pledge not to bring in politics to our order as well, as it was founded as a group by Michael J. McGivney in the 1800's to help families out in hard times, as well as help their neighbors out and we do that more than well in Celebration! We are involved in trying to get homeless people settled as Osceola County has lately been serving eviction notices to motels on US 192 for allowing low income families for living there which is an absolute shame! True you will not see a panhandler on the streets of Celebration and it may seem like a snobbish community, but maybe that may be why! Enough said there as I may have turned this thread now into the great debate especially if one user from Tulsa reads this!
Anyway, I do not want to be harsh, but just to point out in defense to the statement made about Celebration being pollution to the rural Florida. Yes they too took away land from us, as it was once part of Disney, but just to point out that nice people do live there and some I know have fundraisers that benefit our local charities that I personally love to take part in.
"
Quote from: roadman65 on October 26, 2015, 09:10:30 AM
Yes that Old Lake Wilson Road area. Its a shame. I remember back in 1990 when there were absolutely no stop lights west of I-4 on US 192. Formosa Gardens was not there, also Westgate was not there (my old boss David Siegal who if that "Name a street after someone you do not like" thread years ago would have loved to contribute his name for Turkey Lake Road in Orlando where his "Westgate Lakes" resort is now), then you have the in between tourist shops and motels which ruined that part of the area as well.
As far as Celebration goes please watch what you say about that. I have friends who live there and its a nice community of people. I belong to the Knights of Columbus there and they do wonders. And for those of you smart asses who want to say that our nature of being secretive makes us evil and violent, you are so wrong. Before someone comes in to point out the rumors about what they hear, its not true. Only our ceremonials are secret, but not what we do. We take a pledge of secrecy as much as we pledge not to bring in politics to our order as well, as it was founded as a group by Michael J. McGivney in the 1800's to help families out in hard times, as well as help their neighbors out and we do that more than well in Celebration! We are involved in trying to get homeless people settled as Osceola County has lately been serving eviction notices to motels on US 192 for allowing low income families for living there which is an absolute shame! True you will not see a panhandler on the streets of Celebration and it may seem like a snobbish community, but maybe that may be why! Enough said there as I may have turned this thread now into the great debate especially if one user from Tulsa reads this!
Anyway, I do not want to be harsh, but just to point out in defense to the statement made about Celebration being pollution to the rural Florida. Yes they too took away land from us, as it was once part of Disney, but just to point out that nice people do live there and some I know have fundraisers that benefit our local charities that I personally love to take part in.
"
I just think it's a stupid name.. I don't think I said anything disparaging about Celebration. Did I miss another response
Route 17 is called a "highway" in New Jersey... I live minutes away from it. Most of Route 17 and Route 4 is 3 lanes/direction without traffic signals, and stores on the side highways are common throughout. I love Route 17 and Route 4 - shopping mecca of the region!
Quote from: longhorn on October 16, 2015, 11:37:56 AM
I am from Texas, and went through Mahwah, NJ last week. What do you call Hwy 17, a freeway? Parkway? Blvd?
Never seen a roadway with 55 mph, concrete barrier down the middle requiring you to go 4 miles out of your way to U-turn, yet have businesses have direct access to it (suicidal trying to pull out of a gas station with traffic barreling down on you), no access roads, and no traffic lights.
Its frustrating, yet genius at the same time, I see how it such a design cuts down on cross traffic bottlenecks.
Quote from: NJ on November 25, 2015, 11:18:33 AM
Route 17 is called a "highway" in New Jersey...
Which is a little ironic, because no one says "Highway 17."
QuoteI love Route 17 and Route 4 - shopping mecca of the region!
Paramus, where the roads intersect, has historically vied for the top spot for zip codes with the most retail sales in the country.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 25, 2015, 01:59:21 PM
Quote from: NJ on November 25, 2015, 11:18:33 AM
Route 17 is called a "highway" in New Jersey...
Which is a little ironic, because no one says "Highway 17."
QuoteI love Route 17 and Route 4 - shopping mecca of the region!
Paramus, where the roads intersect, has historically vied for the top spot for zip codes with the most retail sales in the country.
In New Jersey we always say "Route XX", NJ Turnpike & Garden State Parkway. Never heard anyone calling any highway for "highway xx". I know it's common in some states.
Paramus is number one zip code in the nation in annual retail sale despite the blue laws (Sunday closings).
Highway = generic term for any of the below.
Freeway = limited access (only at designated cross streets) and controlled access (no median crossings).
Arterial = unlimited access (driveways) and uncontrolled access (median crossings).
Expressway = limited access, but uncontrolled access.
There is a void for highways with unlimited access but controlled access, which encompasses 17 and 4 (west end of NJ 3, US 1 north of Boston, several others). So we invented the term "Jersey freeways".
Quote from: Alps on November 25, 2015, 04:47:15 PM
Highway = generic term for any of the below.
Freeway = limited access (only at designated cross streets) and controlled access (no median crossings).
Arterial = unlimited access (driveways) and uncontrolled access (median crossings).
Expressway = limited access, but uncontrolled access.
There is a void for highways with unlimited access but controlled access, which encompasses 17 and 4 (west end of NJ 3, US 1 north of Boston, several others). So we invented the term "Jersey freeways".
You're right, but I think his point was that all anyone in the area would call it is a "highway. "
To anyone north and east of a line that follows the Ohio and Potomac rivers, a highway refers to a divided road with limited access, no traffic signals, and no driveways or shopping centers, unless they are located on a guardrail/ Jersey barrier separated service road alongside. The roads with driveways that many refer to "HWY XX" in the rest of the country are called "Route XX" And Garden State Plaza, NJ's largest shopping mall, occupies the southwest corner of the NJ 4/ NJ 17 junction.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on November 25, 2015, 05:09:28 PM
To anyone north and east of a line that follows the Ohio and Potomac rivers, a highway refers to a divided road with limited access, no traffic signals, and no driveways or shopping centers, unless they are located on a guardrail/ Jersey barrier separated service road alongside. The roads with driveways that many refer to "HWY XX" in the rest of the country are called "Route XX" And Garden State Plaza, NJ's largest shopping mall, occupies the southwest corner of the NJ 4/ NJ 17 junction.
Right, in this part of the country, the term "freeway" doesn't get used much, except in the names of certain highways in New Jersey that are known almost exclusive by their route numbers. We use "highway" colloquially the way that FHWA uses freeway. Highways are divided into two types: expressways, which are open to all vehicles, and parkways, which are not open to trucks (at least in most places). They generally have names that indicate which or the two types they are (e.g. Long Island Expressway, Northern Parkway, Cross Bronx Expressway, Taconic Parkway) or are known solely or primarily by their route numbers. Roads that are called highways are generally not and have names that date back to before there was such a thing. For example, Sunrise Highway (NY 27) and Montauk Highway (NY 27A/CR 85/CR 80/NY 27) on Long Island have traffic lights and driveways, and the latter is a two-lane undivided road for most of its length.
Quote from: dgolub on November 25, 2015, 05:25:59 PMRoads that are called highways are generally not and have names that date back to before there was such a thing.
As an example of this, "King's Highway" pops up on two-lane roads all over the place dating to kingly times. The one in southeastern Rockland County is paralleled by Western Highway, which I believe is newer but is also a two-lane street with primarily local traffic.
I think the Expressway/Parkway thing is New York state specific. NJ has one Expressway (the Atlantic City Expressway) and one Parkway (Garden State Parkway). Actually there's also the Palisades Parkway and Rahway River Parkway (the latter is primarily the name of a park which lies between the Rahway River and the GSP, but I think the main road through the park goes by that name as well), but the first is partially with New York and nobody has heard of the second. The GSP allows trucks on part of its length. So you have a situation where you have The Turnpike, The Parkway, and less often The Expressway and The Freeway (NJ 42/I-76).
But everything is "the highway" or "a highway" from a divided road all the way to a freeway, with no specific widespread words to tell them apart. And anything with a number that isn't one of the above named highways (also the Black and White Horse Pikes) is "Route X" except when it's on a local street that has a name.
Even in Bergen, "the parkway" refers to the Garden State Parkway. The Palisades Parkway is shortened most often to "the Palisades."
Also, if you want to get technical about it, part of Route 80 is named "Bergen-Passaic Expressway," a name that lives on primarily in musty old Hagstrom maps.
Quote from: dgolub on November 25, 2015, 05:25:59 PM
Right, in this part of the country, the term "freeway" doesn't get used much, except in the names of certain highways in New Jersey that are known almost exclusive by their route numbers. We use "highway" colloquially the way that FHWA uses freeway. Highways are divided into two types: expressways, which are open to all vehicles, and parkways, which are not open to trucks (at least in most places). They generally have names that indicate which or the two types they are (e.g. Long Island Expressway, Northern Parkway, Cross Bronx Expressway, Taconic Parkway) or are known solely or primarily by their route numbers. Roads that are called highways are generally not and have names that date back to before there was such a thing. For example, Sunrise Highway (NY 27) and Montauk Highway (NY 27A/CR 85/CR 80/NY 27) on Long Island have traffic lights and driveways, and the latter is a two-lane undivided road for most of its length.
I can only think of two highways with "freeway" in their name in New Jersey:
*Trenton Freeway (US 1)
*North/South Freeway (NJ 42)
Quote from: dgolub on November 25, 2015, 05:25:59 PM
We use "highway" colloquially the way that FHWA uses freeway.
When I was taking driver's ed in the Rochester area, "highway" meant rural two lane roads and high speed arterials.
Quote from: Zeffy on November 25, 2015, 10:07:25 PM
Quote from: dgolub on November 25, 2015, 05:25:59 PM
Right, in this part of the country, the term "freeway" doesn't get used much, except in the names of certain highways in New Jersey that are known almost exclusive by their route numbers. We use "highway" colloquially the way that FHWA uses freeway. Highways are divided into two types: expressways, which are open to all vehicles, and parkways, which are not open to trucks (at least in most places). They generally have names that indicate which or the two types they are (e.g. Long Island Expressway, Northern Parkway, Cross Bronx Expressway, Taconic Parkway) or are known solely or primarily by their route numbers. Roads that are called highways are generally not and have names that date back to before there was such a thing. For example, Sunrise Highway (NY 27) and Montauk Highway (NY 27A/CR 85/CR 80/NY 27) on Long Island have traffic lights and driveways, and the latter is a two-lane undivided road for most of its length.
I can only think of two highways with "freeway" in their name in New Jersey:
*Trenton Freeway (US 1)
*North/South Freeway (NJ 42)
NJ 18 was planned as the Route 35 freeway east of the GS Parkway. Route 33 is a "freeway." Planned NJ 14 would have been 14-F for freeway. There exist other examples, but it's clear that NJ was big on the word "freeway" by the 1970s.
Quote from: Zeffy on November 25, 2015, 10:07:25 PM
I can only think of two highways with "freeway" in their name in New Jersey:
*Trenton Freeway (US 1)
*North/South Freeway (NJ 42)
Those are the only ones that show the name on the SLD, but there are others:
* Essex Freeway (I-280)
* Middlesex Freeway (I-287)
* Union Freeway (I-278)
* Camden Freeway (I-295)
* Monmouth Freeway (NJ 18)
* Somerset Freeway (I-95) (unbuilt)
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 25, 2015, 06:48:23 PM
Also, if you want to get technical about it, part of Route 80 is named "Bergen-Passaic Expressway," a name that lives on primarily in musty old Hagstrom maps.
Also, I-78 is the Phillipsburg-Newark Expressway and I-195 is the Central Jersey Expressway, but no one uses those names.
Has anyone yet stopped calling I-78 east of NJ 24 as "Route 24?" I know its been almost 30 years since the controversial 5 mile segment through Watchung Reservation was opened to traffic leaving I-78 east of NJ 24 not signed as such, but back in the early 90's some people I knew were still calling I-78 from 48 to 58 as "Route 24" like they did before the Watchung Reservation part got completed.
I used to argue with non road geeks on the CB radio about it as many would still refer to it as "Route 24" even though it never was. The eastbound ramps always used I-78 shields on them and the westbound, well, used "TO NJ 24 WEST" not to lead westbound I-78 motorists going to PA onto NJ 24 going into Chatam (the NJ 24 freeway was finished years later in 92) way off their trek. Being I-78 and US 22 never had direct arterials between them, there was no way to double back to US 22. So at the Newark Airport Tangle, signs were posted for I-78 west to use US 22 for through motorists. No westbound ramps were signed at all for I-78 west east of the Reservation.
Quote from: dgolub on November 26, 2015, 10:34:07 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on November 25, 2015, 10:07:25 PM
I can only think of two highways with "freeway" in their name in New Jersey:
*Trenton Freeway (US 1)
*North/South Freeway (NJ 42)
Those are the only ones that show the name on the SLD, but there are others:
* Essex Freeway (I-280)
* Middlesex Freeway (I-287)
* Union Freeway (I-278)
* Camden Freeway (I-295)
* Monmouth Freeway (NJ 18)
* Somerset Freeway (I-95) (unbuilt)
TIL each county should have its own freeway. (unbuilt NJ 31: Hunterdon Freeway? why not?)