[This thread has been split from the Southern GSP observations thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1358.msg31439#msg31439) in the Northeast section of the the forum and then moved here. -S.]
Quote from: Chris on July 25, 2009, 04:11:49 AM
How often does an Exit 0 happens? I remember a few, like Exit 0 on I-10 in Texas and Exit 0 near Sioux Falls on I-229.
Add I-69 in Indiana to that list.
Theoretically, it should happen whenever an exit is less than half a mile from the beginning of the route. In practice, many DOTs instead opt to fudge it and call it exit 1 in such cases. California, for instance, by policy always does that.
Why? "Driver expectation". There being an exit 0 confuses some people, somehow. I don't get where it's confusing, but there you have it.
there is even an Exit 00 somewhere (Texas? I forget) where apparently there were exits 0 and 1 and they wanted to fit one inbetween but didn't want to call it 0A. Or something like that. Maybe it was even before 0, and they didn't want exit -1.
I-164 in Evansville, IN has a posted Exit 0.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg36%2Fjcm9572%2FRoad%2520Trip%2520Mar%252008%2FEndI-164.jpg&hash=035f3f34740348309a28f9e4dc332a56c7741198)
Instead of numbering the last exit "0", they shouldn't even be numbered at all. Maybe many DOTs would oppose it, but it would be less confusing than an exit 0.
Quote from: City on July 27, 2009, 06:49:58 PM
Instead of numbering the last exit "0", they shouldn't even be numbered at all. Maybe many DOTs would oppose it, but it would be less confusing than an exit 0.
Now why would it be confusing? An interchange at the very start of a route is at the 0 milemarker, and so its number should correctly be 0. One thing that always annoys me about MDOT and I-194 was that the exit at the very start for I-94 was numbered 1. Then you had the exit for Columbia Avenue which is two miles away, but the exit number only increments by one, since the latter exit is numbered correctly based on its milepost. Since the idea of mileage-based exits is to give drivers a way to estimate mileage between interchanges, having Exit 1 where it should be Exit 0 mucks up that process. Perhaps MDOT might consider that when those signs are up for replacement, but I wouldn't hold my breath. MDOT pretty much skirted the issue with M-6, as neither of its termini interchanges are numbered, but at least the first interchange at 8th Avenue is Exit 1, since it's closer to one mile than two from I-196.
Now with sequential exits, it would be wrong for there to be an Exit 0, since you don't count a 0th item when counting sequentially.
I'm of the opinion that termini interchanges shouldn't be numbered, though that may be influenced by the fact that NY doesn't do it.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 26, 2009, 02:03:03 AM
there is even an Exit 00 somewhere (Texas? I forget) where apparently there were exits 0 and 1 and they wanted to fit one inbetween but didn't want to call it 0A. Or something like that. Maybe it was even before 0, and they didn't want exit -1.
The only 00 I remember seeing was in Puerto Rico.
Oklahoma doesn't use Exit 0, they fudge it by letting Mile 1 for exit numbering last from MP 0.00 to 1.99. Check out this example from I-240 in OKC:
| No. | Mi. | Name |
| 1A | 0.0 | I-44 west — Lawton |
| 1B | 0.5 | May Ave. |
| 1C | 1.5 | Penn Ave. |
| 2A | 2.4 | Western Ave. |
Quote from: rawmustardNow with sequential exits, it would be wrong for there to be an Exit 0, since you don't count a 0th item when counting sequentially.
In computer programming, array indexes generally start with 0. Therefore many programmers will start numbered lists with 0. If you ever see anyone do this, chances are they're a programmer.
Quote from: rawmustard on July 28, 2009, 01:02:35 AM
Now with sequential exits, it would be wrong for there to be an Exit 0, since you don't count a 0th item when counting sequentially.
Unless you were a computer scientist :P
It would be more correct if they put like "Exit .2"! :-D
I-10 at the southern end of I-65 is numbered exit "0," for the "control cities" of Mississippi and Florida.
Be well,
Bryant
The southern terminus of PA Turnpike 66 is marked with 0s:
EXIT 0A - I-70/I-76/PA TPK
EXIT 0B - US 119 NORTH
On I-70 in WV, Wheeling Island is exit zero, and is followed eastbound by exit 1 and exit 2, so they could not "fudge" and just call it exit one.
As the name implies, Wheeling Island is an island in the middle of the Ohio River, in WV jurisdiction (the Ohio belongs to WV and KY to the opposite shore, unlike most rivers which are split down the middle).
The Indiana Toll road interchange with US 12/20/41 where it becomes the Chicago Skyway is Exit 0.
QuoteThe southern terminus of PA Turnpike 66 is marked with 0s:
EXIT 0A - I-70/I-76/PA TPK
EXIT 0B - US 119 NORTH
Wasn't there a period of time that the Arona Rd. exit was #0. (Sometime right after the switch to mileage based, but before the US-119 cloverleaf became exit 0)??
Or is my mind just playing tricks on me.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on September 21, 2009, 11:53:46 AMWasn't there a period of time that the Arona Rd. exit was #0. (Sometime right after the switch to mileage based, but before the US-119 cloverleaf became exit 0)??
Or is my mind just playing tricks on me.
I only remember it as 2 before the conversion.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 20, 2009, 05:41:09 PMOklahoma doesn't use Exit 0, they fudge it by letting Mile 1 for exit numbering last from MP 0.00 to 1.99. Check out this example from I-240 in OKC:
| No. | Mi. | Name |
| 1A | 0.0 | I-44 west — Lawton |
| 1B | 0.5 | May Ave. |
| 1C | 1.5 | Penn Ave. |
| 2A | 2.4 | Western Ave. |
AFAIK, There will be no "Exit 0" in California. They fudge Mile 1 similar to what Oklahoma does in the quoted section above but it's a little different...
Mile 1 zone = 0.00 to 1.49
Mile 2 zone = 1.50 to 2.49
Mile 3 zone = 2.50 to 3.49
and so on.
For example...
| Exit # | Mileage | Name |
| 1A | 0.50 mi | Coleman Avenue |
| 1B | 1.25 mi | North 1st Street |
| 2A | 1.75 mi | U.S. 101 Southbound |
| 2B | 2.00 mi | U.S. 101 Northbound |
| 3 | 3.25 mi | Brokaw Road |
That would still be in the exit 1 range even if CA used exit 0.
Most exit 0 issues could probably be eliminated if termini were not numbered.
Quote from: deanej on September 24, 2009, 08:43:31 PM
That would still be in the exit 1 range even if CA used exit 0.
Most exit 0 issues could probably be eliminated if termini were not numbered.
In the sequential numbering days, PA's interstate to interstate junctions did not have exit numbers with the exceptions of the PA Turnpike and of I-180 & I-80, but that is because I-180 West used to be PA 147 North.
Even though I like sequential numbering, I always thought that was odd. :pan:
Not surprisingly, they got exit #s with the move to mileage based exits, one of the few things that I like about the change.
Vermont, if I recall correctly, does the same thing. The I-93 exit on I-91 does not have a number. Exit 21 is to the north of it, and exit 20 to the south. I remember once missing my exit thinking "oh, it's two exits away, I will look out for exit 19". Nope! :banghead:
I-93 doesn't have an exit number there, but I-91 does. Exit 19.
Of the six cases of Interstate route junctions in Vermont (3 junctions with 2 routes each), the three that do not have exit numbers are the above-mentioned I-93, I-189 at its I-89 terminus, and I-89 where it crosses I-91 (exit number on I-91 there is 10N/S).
On I-75 in Cincinnati, there exits 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, 1E, 1F, and 1G within the first mile. Plus, Exit 2A comes at the 1.5 mile marker.
I-110 in Louisiana has too many Exits 1 - from south to north - 1I-J (Terminus), 1A, 1B, 1C, 1H, 1D, 1G, 1E and 1F (yes, in that order.)
Only Exit 0 I've ever seen was the one on I-40 in Texas. And even then they're hit or miss - I-45 doesn't have any Exits 0, but has at least one exit that'd probably qualify.
Quote from: Darkangel on October 08, 2009, 07:23:52 AM
I-110 in Louisiana has too many Exits 1 - from south to north - 1I-J (Terminus), 1A, 1B, 1C, 1H, 1D, 1G, 1E and 1F (yes, in that order.)
I-70 in Kansas City has an exit 2A-Z I believe...
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on October 08, 2009, 10:13:02 PM
I-70 in Kansas City has an exit 2A-Z I believe...
except for O and I, yes. But the exits are not all on I-70. They are all on this monster loop road that is 70 for part of the route, but not all.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=kansas+city+MO&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=47.215051,70.664062&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Kansas+City,+Jackson,+Missouri&ll=39.102391,-94.582844&spn=0.022746,0.050855&z=15 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=kansas+city+MO&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=47.215051,70.664062&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Kansas+City,+Jackson,+Missouri&ll=39.102391,-94.582844&spn=0.022746,0.050855&z=15)
incidentally, 70 westbound is damn near impossible to follow for the first-time traveler. I wonder why they didn't just route 70 on the route that is now 670 - it's not only shorter, but straighter as well.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 08, 2009, 10:16:43 PM
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on October 08, 2009, 10:13:02 PM
I-70 in Kansas City has an exit 2A-Z I believe...
except for O and I, yes.
Z isn't used either.
There is an Exit 0 on I-10 at the Texas/New Mexico line.
Quote from: Darkangel on October 08, 2009, 07:23:52 AM
I-110 in Louisiana has too many Exits 1 - from south to north - 1I-J (Terminus), 1A, 1B, 1C, 1H, 1D, 1G, 1E and 1F (yes, in that order.)
Only Exit 0 I've ever seen was the one on I-40 in Texas. And even then they're hit or miss - I-45 doesn't have any Exits 0, but has at least one exit that'd probably qualify.
Certainly you must have driven through Interstate 65's southern terminus :colorful:
(https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/alabama065/i-065_sb_exit_000_04.jpg)
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 20, 2009, 05:41:09 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 26, 2009, 02:03:03 AM
there is even an Exit 00 somewhere (Texas? I forget) where apparently there were exits 0 and 1 and they wanted to fit one inbetween but didn't want to call it 0A. Or something like that. Maybe it was even before 0, and they didn't want exit -1.
The only 00 I remember seeing was in Puerto Rico.
Yeah, within the very complicated PR18/22 interchange in San Juan.
http://www.hawaiihighways.com/Puerto-Rico-page2.html (http://www.hawaiihighways.com/Puerto-Rico-page2.html) (second photo from the top).
Quote from: AARoads on October 10, 2009, 11:27:59 AM
Quote from: Darkangel on October 08, 2009, 07:23:52 AM
I-110 in Louisiana has too many Exits 1 - from south to north - 1I-J (Terminus), 1A, 1B, 1C, 1H, 1D, 1G, 1E and 1F (yes, in that order.)
Only Exit 0 I've ever seen was the one on I-40 in Texas. And even then they're hit or miss - I-45 doesn't have any Exits 0, but has at least one exit that'd probably qualify.
Certainly you must have driven through Interstate 65's southern terminus :colorful:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southeastroads.com%2Falabama050%2Fi-065_sb_exit_000_04.jpg&hash=edd763d7c495f1b969782bb4a9a811a6da8e304d)
Last time was 2004, and it was on a Greyhound, so I didn't see the exit tabs.
Quote from: Darkangel on October 08, 2009, 07:23:52 AM
I-110 in Louisiana has too many Exits 1 - from south to north - 1I-J (Terminus), 1A, 1B, 1C, 1H, 1D, 1G, 1E and 1F (yes, in that order.)
Only Exit 0 I've ever seen was the one on I-40 in Texas. And even then they're hit or miss - I-45 doesn't have any Exits 0, but has at least one exit that'd probably qualify.
I get the feeling that I-110's terminus with I-10 in Baton Rouge wasn't originally numbered (or lettered in this case) since that I & J seem out of place. Then again, I'm not sure who in Red Stick had the bright idea of giving every offramp from 110 NB & SB it's own letter designation.
But that quirk I believe gives I-110 the highest exit letter total for just one interstate (unlike KC or Cincy where multiple interstates are sharing the letters).
Quote from: osu-lsu on October 16, 2009, 12:01:45 PM
Quote from: Darkangel on October 08, 2009, 07:23:52 AM
I-110 in Louisiana has too many Exits 1 - from south to north - 1I-J (Terminus), 1A, 1B, 1C, 1H, 1D, 1G, 1E and 1F (yes, in that order.)
Only Exit 0 I've ever seen was the one on I-40 in Texas. And even then they're hit or miss - I-45 doesn't have any Exits 0, but has at least one exit that'd probably qualify.
I get the feeling that I-110's terminus with I-10 in Baton Rouge wasn't originally numbered (or lettered in this case) since that I & J seem out of place. Then again, I'm not sure who in Red Stick had the bright idea of giving every offramp from 110 NB & SB it's own letter designation.
But that quirk I believe gives I-110 the highest exit letter total for just one interstate (unlike KC or Cincy where multiple interstates are sharing the letters).
Exit 1I and 1J were previously unnumbered (2002 photo): http://www.interstate-guide.com/images110/i-110_la_st_24.jpg (http://www.interstate-guide.com/images110/i-110_la_st_24.jpg)
Exit numbers were assigned by 2003: http://www.interstate-guide.com/images110/i-110_la_st_15.jpg (http://www.interstate-guide.com/images110/i-110_la_st_15.jpg)
There are "Exit 0" tabs at the I-380 Southern Terminus in Iowa. Makes sense in this case because the roadway continues as U.S. 218/Iowa 27.
As I recall, there is an Exit 0 on Interstate 90 on the Montana side of the Idaho/Montana Border at Lookout Pass. The exit provides access to a ski area at the summit. Of note; Lookout Pass is also a time zone border.
ISTHA also seems to like Exit 0. I-355's south end is marked as Exit 0A for I-80 East and Exit 0B for I-80 West.
As of this year, I-480 in Iowa has an Exit 0 for "Riverfront" in Council Bluffs.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Exit 0 on I-70 in Wheeling, West Virginia, yet.
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 20, 2009, 06:29:31 PM
Quote from: rawmustard on July 28, 2009, 01:02:35 AM
Now with sequential exits, it would be wrong for there to be an Exit 0, since you don't count a 0th item when counting sequentially.
Unless you were a computer scientist :P
Yes, I've seen CS books with a Chapter 0. My introductory electrical engineering textbook from college also has one.
There is also a 0th law of thermodynamics.
I-172 where it ends at I-72, just east of Hannibal.
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 21, 2009, 12:00:40 AM
The Indiana Toll road interchange with US 12/20/41 where it becomes the Chicago Skyway is Exit 0.
This was true even in the sequential-numbering days, despite the discussion upthread about "exit 0" making no sense in a sequential numbering scheme. According to Wikipedia, there were 2 exits numbered 0 in those days, including also the western SR 912 exit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Toll_Road#Exit_list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Toll_Road#Exit_list). I have not confirmed that.
Quote from: theline on December 07, 2013, 06:57:51 PM
According to Wikipedia, there were 2 exits numbered 0 in those days, including also the western SR 912 exit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Toll_Road#Exit_list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Toll_Road#Exit_list). I have not confirmed that.
According to who the fuck added that turd? That part of SR 912 was built in 1984, but the exits were renumbered in 1981.
Quote from: Brandon on December 07, 2013, 12:34:28 AM
ISTHA also seems to like Exit 0. I-355's south end is marked as Exit 0A for I-80 East and Exit 0B for I-80 West.
Have a picture?
Quote from: theline on December 07, 2013, 06:57:51 PMThis was true even in the sequential-numbering days, despite the discussion upthread about "exit 0" making no sense in a sequential numbering scheme.
where's this discussion?
Certainly, informally, 'junction 0' appears in UK roadgeek discussions, when referring to unnumbered termini.
And at least one of them is official - here's secondary legislation referring to the M58's junction 0 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/2229/contents/made). The number doesn't appear on signs, not least as there is no exit.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 07, 2013, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 07, 2013, 12:34:28 AM
ISTHA also seems to like Exit 0. I-355's south end is marked as Exit 0A for I-80 East and Exit 0B for I-80 West.
Have a picture?
Not yet. It was in the dark when I saw it. Not exactly prime photo taking time. ISTHA also has an "EXIT 0 A-B" tab in the yard at the Cermak Road Toll Plaza on the Tri-State (where they store all their finished signs prior to installation). There's only one place on the entire system it can go.
While the exit for I-295 along I-195 (& NJ 29) is signed as Exit 60, the same exit number for the interchange as I-295 itself, it should theoretically be Exit 0 IMHO. Just eliminate the 6 from the exit tabs of the following BGS' and their respective subordiantes.
Along NJ 29 Eastbound:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fe%2Fee%2FRoute_29_end.jpg%2F250px-Route_29_end.jpg&hash=0351d6cb03f7ba5981c6e03a89811646ba7d1bc7)
Along I-195 Westbound:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billburmaster.com%2Frmsandw%2Fnew_jersey%2Fimages%2Fw195at2950812c.jpg&hash=c4612c79ba224b35d431779ef11d4d24300967e1)
Note: I am aware of the upcoming switch for I-295 north of the interchange becoming a western extension of I-195 once the I-95/PA Turnpike interchange is completed. Such change will make the interchange number for the I-195 pieces become Exit 16(?) rather than 60; which would make this interchange no longer a candidate for Exit 0 from any direction.
Quote from: Alex on October 10, 2009, 11:27:59 AM
Quote from: Darkangel on October 08, 2009, 07:23:52 AM
I-110 in Louisiana has too many Exits 1 - from south to north - 1I-J (Terminus), 1A, 1B, 1C, 1H, 1D, 1G, 1E and 1F (yes, in that order.)
Only Exit 0 I've ever seen was the one on I-40 in Texas. And even then they're hit or miss - I-45 doesn't have any Exits 0, but has at least one exit that'd probably qualify.
Certainly you must have driven through Interstate 65's southern terminus :colorful:
(https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/alabama065/i-065_sb_exit_000_04.jpg)
Technically, shouldn't that be "EXIT 0A" and "EXIT 0B"?. And the '10 WEST" BGS illustrates one of my top signing pet peeves - squeezing multiple down arrows onto a narrow panel, with the result that the arrows don't properly line up over the lanes they apply to.
Quote from: roadman on December 10, 2013, 02:18:31 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/southeast/alabama065/i-065_sb_exit_000_04.jpg)
Technically, shouldn't that be "EXIT 0A" and "EXIT 0B"? And the '10 WEST" BGS illustrates one of my top signing pet peeves - squeezing multiple down arrows onto a narrow panel, with the result that the arrows don't properly line up over the lanes they apply to.
Something tells me that I-10 West BGS panel may have originally been sized for only 2 arrows but was changed to 3 arrows either just after the BGS was already fabricated and/or erected.
I find it interesting that the
only listed destinations are states rather than cities. Such practice is now either a
No-No or is discouraged in the eyes of MUTCD/FHWA.
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 10, 2013, 02:46:35 PM
I find it interesting that the only listed destinations are states rather than cities. Such practice is now either a No-No or is discouraged in the eyes of MUTCD/FHWA.
Somebody better tell IDOT and ISTHA with their "Wisconsin", "Indiana", and "Iowa" controls.
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 10, 2013, 02:46:35 PM
I find it interesting that the only listed destinations are states rather than cities. Such practice is now either a No-No or is discouraged in the eyes of MUTCD/FHWA.
I should have emphasised the word
only in
bold earlier; I've since done so. While I have seen BGS' that list a neighboring state as a destination for
one sign/direction; very rarely (if ever) have I seen every sign for every different direction listing only states per the I-10 example.
Quote from: Brandon on December 10, 2013, 02:53:39 PMSomebody better tell IDOT and ISTHA with their "Wisconsin", "Indiana", and "Iowa" controls.
Don't shoot the messenger here; I'm just posting my observations & findings. Personally, I think that barring the listing of states as a destination is absolutely ludicrous because there are indeed some cases where listing such makes more sense and is more appropriate. Example: the listing of
New Jersey for an eastbound I-276/PA Turnpike destination.
Why not have Exit 0? If you are staying true to mileage based exits, you have to have an Exit 0 if the junction happens before the 1st mile post.
In Texas there is an Exit 0 on Interstate 10 for FM 1905, Anthony and an Exit 0 on Interstate 40 in Glenrio for Bussiness Loop 40.
The other mile zeros in Texas don't have Exits 0, which include Interstates 20,27,30,35,35W,37 and, 45. Now I have never witnessed Interstate 44's terminus so not sure about that one.
That I remember none of the 3dis in Texas have Exit 0, except Interstate 110 in El Paso at the border. I-69 and I-2 (and the suffixed I-69s for that matter) have no exit numbers so they can't be counted. US 75 in Dallas has sequential exit numbers so there is no need for an exit 0. And Interstate 345's exit numbers do not reflect the mile posts on I -345.
I'd rather have an Exit O than an exit numbering system which starts arbitrarily. When TxDOT replaced button copy signage on US 54 in El Paso, they renumbered the exits starting at 20.
Loop 375, at the terminus of the highway, became Exit 20. US 62, Paisano Dr., became 20A, and I-110 to Juarez became 20B. (I don't think I've ever seen ANY exit tabs on I-110 itself.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2Fus54exits_zpsa7812a81.jpg&hash=f574bd81350110ed925791ba9e8de60c878329a4)
These signs have been slightly modified to reflect a traffic pattern under which cross-border autos use I-110 and cross-border trucks use US 62 to access the Bridge of the Americas.
I haven't seen any Exit 0's in Arizona. All the first AZ based exits on the Interstates entering in from California start at 1.
Quote from: mwb1848 on December 16, 2013, 11:48:29 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2Fus54exits_zpsa7812a81.jpg&hash=f574bd81350110ed925791ba9e8de60c878329a4)
First time I think I've ever seen a "No Guns" highway sign. On what page in the MUTCD is that? :-D
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 10, 2013, 02:46:35 PM
I find it interesting that the only listed destinations are states rather than cities. Such practice is now either a No-No or is discouraged in the eyes of MUTCD/FHWA.
I believe this was the interchange where the control cities used to be "Pensacola" and "Pascagoula", which are difficult to tell apart at speed.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 16, 2013, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 10, 2013, 02:46:35 PM
I find it interesting that the only listed destinations are states rather than cities. Such practice is now either a No-No or is discouraged in the eyes of MUTCD/FHWA.
I believe this was the interchange where the control cities used to be "Pensacola" and "Pascagoula", which are difficult to tell apart at speed.
Use of those control cities would certainly qualify for Similar Control Cities (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10796.0) thread. :sombrero:
Bear in mind that MUTCD/FHWA & I part ways regarding the restriction/ban on using states as control destinations; I'm just stating what's the
accepted practice now.
Personnally, I like sequential numbering better. But, if mileage is used, Exit 0 shouldnot be allowed.
And with the states as control cities: I think its fine, but saying that I 294 goes to Indian only 25 miles from Wisconsin border is dumb.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 16, 2013, 01:29:30 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on December 16, 2013, 11:48:29 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2Fus54exits_zpsa7812a81.jpg&hash=f574bd81350110ed925791ba9e8de60c878329a4)
First time I think I've ever seen a "No Guns" highway sign. On what page in the MUTCD is that? :-D
From what I've seen on Street View, those are common near the border in Texas to warn people that guns and ammo are illegal to transport into Mexico.
Quote from: mwb1848 on December 16, 2013, 11:48:29 AM
I'd rather have an Exit O than an exit numbering system which starts arbitrarily. When TxDOT replaced button copy signage on US 54 in El Paso, they renumbered the exits starting at 20.
20 is not arbitrary; it's based on the TxDOT reference marker system, which is used for distances on all non-Interstates in the state, where theoretical zero is 10 miles west of the westernmost point of the state (and thus about 20 miles west of Exit 20).
As DandyDan noticed, Interstate 480 in Council Bluffs Iowa has an exit 0 for 'Riverfront'. I-480 in Iowa is also really short.
Possibly one of the shortest Interstates in any state, I-480 terminates immediately after exit 0 (not a full interchange, just a westbound on ramp and an east bound exit) at it's junction with I-29.
IIRC, that interchange is schedule next for a rebuild after the I-29/I-80 junction just a country mile south is finished from it's rebuild.
Anyone here gets near it, that interchange is in a dramatic state of completion, massive ramps to nowhere (yet) and bridges arcing part way across the sky. PCI (famous for the I-680 33 day rebuild), is rebuilding that interchange.
I may be wrong, but I want to say that I-20/59 at the MS/AL border had an exit 0, but they changed it to exit 1 a few years ago.
Quote from: lordsutch on December 16, 2013, 10:30:45 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on December 16, 2013, 11:48:29 AM
I'd rather have an Exit O than an exit numbering system which starts arbitrarily. When TxDOT replaced button copy signage on US 54 in El Paso, they renumbered the exits starting at 20.
20 is not arbitrary; it's based on the TxDOT reference marker system, which is used for distances on all non-Interstates in the state, where theoretical zero is 10 miles west of the westernmost point of the state (and thus about 20 miles west of Exit 20).
Thanks for this! That's really fascinating. And would also explain why Spur 601's first exit is 20.
https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-106.424764!3d31.826388!2m2!1f274.24!2f79.86!4f75!2m9!1e1!2m4!1sOJAg6cDjhL4ThQ7Sp7dZpw!2e0!9m1!6sTexas+601+Spur!5m2!1sOJAg6cDjhL4ThQ7Sp7dZpw!2e0&fid=5 (https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-106.424764!3d31.826388!2m2!1f274.24!2f79.86!4f75!2m9!1e1!2m4!1sOJAg6cDjhL4ThQ7Sp7dZpw!2e0!9m1!6sTexas+601+Spur!5m2!1sOJAg6cDjhL4ThQ7Sp7dZpw!2e0&fid=5)
It's at US 54... due north of the US 54/Loop 375 interchange.
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 10, 2013, 02:46:35 PM
Something tells me that I-10 West BGS panel may have originally been sized for only 2 arrows but was changed to 3 arrows either just after the BGS was already fabricated and/or erected.
I find it interesting that the only listed destinations are states rather than cities. Such practice is now either a No-No or is discouraged in the eyes of MUTCD/FHWA.
This is in Greendale, IN, at the ramps between US 50 and I-275. Ohio and Kentucky are the only listed destinations on the I-275 signage. If you go to the other side and turn 180 degrees, the signs for US 50 are more traditional, minus the "Ohio" control city for US 50 East.
http://goo.gl/maps/yQpIi
Quote from: JMoses24 on December 17, 2013, 10:14:08 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 10, 2013, 02:46:35 PM
Something tells me that I-10 West BGS panel may have originally been sized for only 2 arrows but was changed to 3 arrows either just after the BGS was already fabricated and/or erected.
I find it interesting that the only listed destinations are states rather than cities. Such practice is now either a No-No or is discouraged in the eyes of MUTCD/FHWA.
This is in Greendale, IN, at the ramps between US 50 and I-275. Ohio and Kentucky are the only listed destinations on the I-275 signage. If you go to the other side and turn 180 degrees, the signs for US 50 are more traditional, minus the "Ohio" control city for US 50 East.
http://goo.gl/maps/yQpIi
As someone who's used this exit many times, the control "states" here make perfect sense. It's about the same distance to downtown either way you go (really depends on what side of downtown you're going to). There's not any noteable cities directly along the I-275 route since they built it so far out from downtown Cincinnati.
I suppose it could say "I-275 NORTH KINGS ISLAND" and "I-275 SOUTH AIRPORT".
Indianapolis/Dayton/Columbus and Lexington/Louisville.
Of course the destinations on I-74 eastbound approaching I-275 are Cincinnati and Kentucky.
And you'll find states listed all over northern Illinois. Indiana and Iowa on I-80 for example.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 16, 2013, 06:45:14 PM
Personnally, I like sequential numbering better. But, if mileage is used, Exit 0 shouldnot be allowed.
I feel exactly the opposite about Exit 0; if an exit is at the very end of a route using mileage-based exit numbers, then "Exit 0" states unequivocally that you're at the end of the route and the exit is at Mile 0. Using sequential numbering, you would usually count 1, 2, 3, 4 using counting numbers so I could see Exit 1 being the lowest. But if using mileage-based numbers, at least in my mind, an exit at Mile 0 ought to be Exit 0.
I-469's southern end is at Exit 0; there follow Exits 1 and 2 in succession. I think that the Exits 0A and 0B that are posted there do a good job signaling that it's the end of the route. Ohio practice in a similar situation would vary; sometimes Exit 1 (even if the route defaults onto another with no choice, like I-271's south end) and sometimes no number when there are otherwise numbers (Exits 0A and 0B would be ideal for a couple of the ramps from SR 8 at its end at Akron's Central Interchange, but instead the exit numbers go 6, 5AB, 4, 3AB, 2, 1AB, no numbers. An ideal place for Exit 0 but ODOT doesn't do that.)
It is sad to see how much button copy has left El Paso since 2001. Went to three Sun Bowl games there and loved how much button copy there was then, much of it pretty old but in good shape, even a few with classic US shields. The Clearview replacing it makes me say Gah!
Quote from: PurdueBill on December 19, 2013, 01:37:52 AM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 16, 2013, 06:45:14 PM
Personnally, I like sequential numbering better. But, if mileage is used, Exit 0 shouldnot be allowed.
I feel exactly the opposite about Exit 0; if an exit is at the very end of a route using mileage-based exit numbers, then "Exit 0" states unequivocally that you're at the end of the route and the exit is at Mile 0. Using sequential numbering, you would usually count 1, 2, 3, 4 using counting numbers so I could see Exit 1 being the lowest. But if using mileage-based numbers, at least in my mind, an exit at Mile 0 ought to be Exit 0.
If the road ends, you are not really exiting, are you? And I think the "End ###" signs take care of that anyway. In my mind, the only time there'd be an exit 0 is if the road doesn't end yet and there is an actual exit between mile 0 and 1, but in that case, your rationale doesn't apply. Of course, as a programmer, I'd like to see more exits 0, but I doubt it makes much difference to the general public.
Quote from: bzakharin on December 19, 2013, 03:57:07 PM
If the road ends, you are not really exiting, are you?
Yes, you are. Just as an outside door at the end of a hallway gets an exit sign.
I'm not sure what La. DODT policy on exits numbered zero is, but the Government St. exit on north bound I-110 should fall into the mile 0 to mile 1 zone. (I'm pretty sure anyway, need to check to mile post markers next time i go that way)
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 07, 2013, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 07, 2013, 12:34:28 AM
ISTHA also seems to like Exit 0. I-355's south end is marked as Exit 0A for I-80 East and Exit 0B for I-80 West.
Have a picture?
I do now.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_3709_zpsded1396d.jpg&hash=2dd2be369b36d2616e9a53cbfbe1e8e900e79021) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3709_zpsded1396d.jpg.html)
Responding to an email inquiry LADODT states that any freeway exit falling between mile 0 and mile 2 is labeled exit 1, 1a,b,etc.
The first several exits on I-110 in Baton Rouge fall into this range, with mile post 0 just past the I-10/110 split.
I would prefer using exit 0 when appropriate.
Did someone ask for an Exit 0 on a sequentially numbered highway?
NS-102 southbound, just before the end of the highway:
http://goo.gl/maps/NPZmd
(Hopefully everyone can see this, despite Google Maps' gradual upgrading...)
And yes, in regards to the other sign, welcome to Halifax, where the first thing we do is point you in the direction of how to get OUT of Halifax...
Quote from: Bud8Amp88 on February 26, 2014, 11:02:55 PM
Did someone ask for an Exit 0 on a sequentially numbered highway?
NS-102 southbound, just before the end of the highway:
http://goo.gl/maps/NPZmd
(Hopefully everyone can see this, despite Google Maps' gradual upgrading...)
And yes, in regards to the other sign, welcome to Halifax, where the first thing we do is point you in the direction of how to get OUT of Halifax...
Exit 0 on the Indiana Toll Road was still Exit 0 even when the road was sequential.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 16, 2013, 06:45:14 PM
Personnally, I like sequential numbering better. But, if mileage is used, Exit 0 shouldnot be allowed.
And with the states as control cities: I think its fine, but saying that I 294 goes to Indian only 25 miles from Wisconsin border is dumb.
What if the state DOT decides they need to add an exit between Exit 15 and 16?
Quote from: KEK Inc. on February 27, 2014, 07:25:10 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 16, 2013, 06:45:14 PM
Personnally, I like sequential numbering better. But, if mileage is used, Exit 0 shouldnot be allowed.
And with the states as control cities: I think its fine, but saying that I 294 goes to Indian only 25 miles from Wisconsin border is dumb.
What if the state DOT decides they need to add an exit between Exit 15 and 16?
Shhh. You don't want to activate the Sequential Suicide Squad of the Sequential Jihad.
Quote from: Brandon on December 26, 2013, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 07, 2013, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 07, 2013, 12:34:28 AM
ISTHA also seems to like Exit 0. I-355's south end is marked as Exit 0A for I-80 East and Exit 0B for I-80 West.
Have a picture?
I do now.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi837.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz298%2Fmidamcrossrds%2F100_3709_zpsded1396d.jpg&hash=2dd2be369b36d2616e9a53cbfbe1e8e900e79021) (http://s837.photobucket.com/user/midamcrossrds/media/100_3709_zpsded1396d.jpg.html)
Notice that Illinois is using states for control cities instead of Toledo (eastbound) and Des Moines (westbound), which was used at the I-57 interchange until the sign replacement project in the area around 2005 or 2006. I liked it better with the cities on the signs.
On I-55 coming into Mississippi from Louisiana, the Osyka/Gillsburg exit should qualify to be exit 0...it's only about a 1/2 mile into MS.
Quote from: cjk374 on March 02, 2014, 01:26:21 AM
On I-55 coming into Mississippi from Louisiana, the Osyka/Gillsburg exit should qualify to be exit 0...it's only about a 1/2 mile into MS.
Nope. The Goog says 0.6 mi to the exit ramp, 0.8 mi to the overpass.
Actually, Eastbound 80 should be / used to be Gary Indiana. A few interchanges still have the old signs using Gary.
Quote from: amroad17
Notice that Illinois is using states for control cities instead of Toledo (eastbound) and Des Moines (westbound), which was used at the I-57 interchange until the sign replacement project in the area around 2005 or 2006. I liked it better with the cities on the signs.
Quote from: DevalDragon on April 11, 2014, 01:27:02 AM
Actually, Eastbound 80 should be / used to be Gary Indiana. A few interchanges still have the old signs using Gary.
Quote from: amroad17
Notice that Illinois is using states for control cities instead of Toledo (eastbound) and Des Moines (westbound), which was used at the I-57 interchange until the sign replacement project in the area around 2005 or 2006. I liked it better with the cities on the signs.
East I-80 was "Gary Indiana" as a secondary control from Joliet eastward. West of there, it's "Joliet" and "Moline - Rock Island" (has been, still is). "Toledo" used to be very common for eastbound I-80 as a primary control from I-55 east. Now, both the primary and secondary control seem to have merged into "Indiana".
I took this picture on I-65 in Indiana, just across the Ohio River from Louisville:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv437%2FDBR96%2FRoads%2520and%2520highways%2F211.jpg&hash=807b566e211a3a1370ae7f0255bd5f3707af59a4)
I also know that I-72 in Illinois used to have Exits 0A-B at I-55, but now they're Exits 103A-B since I-72 was extended west into Missouri.
Quote from: Jardine on December 17, 2013, 09:21:08 AM
As DandyDan noticed, Interstate 480 in Council Bluffs Iowa has an exit 0 for 'Riverfront'. I-480 in Iowa is also really short.
Possibly one of the shortest Interstates in any state, I-480 terminates immediately after exit 0 (not a full interchange, just a westbound on ramp and an east bound exit) at it's junction with I-29
3 Things: 1. Interstate 480 ends at the Big Guide Sign (BGS for short) for Exit 1A&B:Interstate 29. (Or about 1/4 mile into Iowa from Nebraska state line) 2. I don't see an Exit 0 on Interstate 480 in Iowa. 3. That's shorter than Interstate 395 in Miami, where it ends about 1/8 of a mile from Exit 2/US 1/Biscayne Blvd. :pan:
Edited to remove excess smileys and for grammar. Please learn capitalization. Do not use excessive smileys - one is plenty. Thank you! ~S
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/west_virginia070/i-070_wb_exit_000_05.jpg)
I'm just glad my home state (Florida) Doesn't use Exit 0 :pan:
Quote from: Legodinodoctor on June 07, 2014, 06:04:21 PM
Quote from: Jardine on December 17, 2013, 09:21:08 AM
As DandyDan noticed, Interstate 480 in Council Bluffs Iowa has an exit 0 for 'Riverfront'. I-480 in Iowa is also really short.
Possibly one of the shortest Interstates in any state, I-480 terminates immediately after exit 0 (not a full interchange, just a westbound on ramp and an east bound exit) at it's junction with I-29
3 Things: 1. Interstate 480 ends at the Big Guide Sign (BGS for short) for Exit 1A&B:Interstate 29. (Or about 1/4 mile into Iowa from Nebraska state line) 2. I don't see an Exit 0 on Interstate 480 in Iowa. 3. That's shorter than Interstate 395 in Miami, where it ends about 1/8 of a mile from Exit 2/US 1/Biscayne Blvd. :pan:
Edited to remove excess smileys and for grammar. Please learn capitalization. Do not use excessive smileys - one is plenty. Thank you! ~S
According to Iowa DOT, I-480 is 0.721 miles long in Iowa--the route doesn't officially end where the "480 ends" sign is. That is often the case, as the signage has to go in an appropriate location for motorists but the actual end may be in a specific spot based on a lot of factors.
All this time I thought BGS was big green sign. Was I alone?
Doesn't I-395 go about 1.2 miles? I thought FDOT's SLD showed that length.
Quote from: Legodinodoctor on July 05, 2014, 10:14:39 AM
I'm just glad my home state (Florida) Doesn't use Exit 0 :pan:
I wish Ohio did, but am pleased that Indiana uses Exit 0 liberally.
Quote from: Legodinodoctor on July 05, 2014, 10:14:39 AM
I'm just glad my home state (Florida) Doesn't use Exit 0 :pan:
And just what is wrong with an Exit 0? All it means is that the exit is between mp 0 and mp 1.
Quote from: Brandon on July 05, 2014, 10:09:50 PM
Quote from: Legodinodoctor on July 05, 2014, 10:14:39 AM
I'm just glad my home state (Florida) Doesn't use Exit 0 :pan:
And just what is wrong with an Exit 0? All it means is that the exit is between mp 0 and mp 1.
Yup. I would kind of like to live near an Exit 0–it'd be distinctive when giving directions, much more noticeable than Exit 173 is!
Quote from: PurdueBill on July 05, 2014, 10:07:51 PM
All this time I thought BGS was big green sign. Was I alone?
No you're not. I thought it big green sign also. I have used "BBS" to mean big blue sign. Was I wrong for that also?
I'm pretty sure we, the roadgeek community, use BGS for Big Green Sign.
"Big Guide Sign" could be a useful interpretation if you wanted to use the term generically to refer to all road signs of that sort, given that Europe and Ontario have a decent number of blue signs. But I always thought the "G" stood for "Green."
Traditionally the G has always stood for green. I suspect someone simply doesn't know what the Food he's talking about.
I think the "Food" Virus has spread, Crappy Karma :ded: :pan:
While most termini in New York are not given an exit number, there are a couple spots that would be nicely served by an Exit 0. Take I-781, for example. The western terminus is Exit 1A/B for Interstate 81 S/N. While most of New York uses sequential numbering, I-781 is mile based and the zero point falls within the interchange. You could say the same about the western terminus of I-890, also mile based. On the sequential highways, I-690 Exit 1 is at the western terminus and as such, should probably go unnumbered or as Exit 0. Even with sequential numbering, it makes no sense for the low-end terminus to get a number other than 0.