http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/01/millennials-car-ownership_n_2789454.html
I'm in this age group. I must be an oddball. I have never had a smartphone and I don't want one. A GPS in my car might be nice (for local routes) even though I have all the major routes in the US, Canada, and Mexico memorized. I don't understand the love for smartphones. I have always loved to drive and plan on making driving my career in a year or two as a long haul truck driver. I drive on average a little over 30K miles per year. I'd much rather drive and see stuff rather than sit on the couch looking at a phone or computer all day.
I will admit I look at Google Street View a lot (and AARoads), but that is so I can plan road trips. I wouldn't be going to Ojinaga pretty soon if it weren't for GSV. I would never in a million years give up my car for a phone/computer. That is just simply stupid. I do have a Tracfone for emergencies only in my car and that's it. Maybe self driving cars will become popular after all. I'll never buy one.
What's your thoughts on this?
I don't like cellphones at all. The sound quality is generally awful, awful microphones, awful speakers, terrible signal reception. I don't like the assumption that I'm available to be pestered anytime anyplace no matter what else I'm in the middle of. So, yeah, I'd rather have a car than a cellphone. Or a bucket of water thrown in my face, that would work too.
Considering I don't like driving (I've been on the bus for more distance than driving) I would much rather have a nice laptop for school and entertainment.
I don't really care for smartphones. I don't use mine often (although I'm typing this reply with a phone) and only charge my phone about once a week.
Quote from: US 41 on October 30, 2015, 11:02:37 AM
You do realize that the link you posted is over 2 years old (the link includes the article date)
and there was a similar subject thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=13795.0) posted just last year.
I've had both at once, both without the other, and neither.
A smartphone is a huge help if you don't have a vehicle. A vehicle is less helpful at replacing a smartphone.
My daughter has all three, and she wouldn't give up any of these things. FTMP, she uses her smartphone mainly for texting and calling home, while she uses her computer to surf the Internet and complete her class projects.
Quote from: kkt on October 30, 2015, 11:47:12 AM
I don't like cellphones at all. The sound quality is generally awful, awful microphones, awful speakers, terrible signal reception. I don't like the assumption that I'm available to be pestered anytime anyplace no matter what else I'm in the middle of. So, yeah, I'd rather have a car than a cellphone. Or a bucket of water thrown in my face, that would work too.
Who uses a cell phone for talking??? LOL
Personally, I think the survey is a little misleading. The age group of 18-34 is 7 years longer than the age group of 35-44 & 45-54 year olds, and many in that first age group are still in school, not needing to worry about things like cars, families and commuting. As they get older and have families, there's a significant difference in how someone 35/40 years old will be living life than someone 20 or 25 years old.
Additionally, many in that younger age group are probably busy paying off student loans. Hmmm...let's see...give up a $30,000 car...or a $600 phone. Not exactly a hard choice there if faced with a financial decision.
Note too that the survey, noted above as being a few years old, was out prior to the extensive usage of Uber & Lyft. I bet the results would be even more dramatic today of those in the 18-34 age group not wanting to give up their phone rather than a car. But by their 40s & 50s, those views will have dramatically change.
Cars pretty much have smart phones built in now so there's no need to choose.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 30, 2015, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 30, 2015, 11:47:12 AM
I don't like cellphones at all. The sound quality is generally awful, awful microphones, awful speakers, terrible signal reception. I don't like the assumption that I'm available to be pestered anytime anyplace no matter what else I'm in the middle of. So, yeah, I'd rather have a car than a cellphone. Or a bucket of water thrown in my face, that would work too.
Who uses a cell phone for talking??? LOL
Personally, I think the survey is a little misleading. The age group of 18-34 is 7 years longer than the age group of 35-44 & 45-54 year olds, and many in that first age group are still in school, not needing to worry about things like cars, families and commuting. As they get older and have families, there's a significant difference in how someone 35/40 years old will be living life than someone 20 or 25 years old.
Additionally, many in that younger age group are probably busy paying off student loans. Hmmm...let's see...give up a $30,000 car...or a $600 phone. Not exactly a hard choice there if faced with a financial decision.
I know very few people who buy $30,000 cars, particularly in their years shortly after college. You can buy a very good, reliable vehicle for a quarter of that price. If you're 25, you can probably make it with a vehicle that's even half that much.
QuoteNote too that the survey, noted above as being a few years old, was out prior to the extensive usage of Uber & Lyft. I bet the results would be even more dramatic today of those in the 18-34 age group not wanting to give up their phone rather than a car. But by their 40s & 50s, those views will have dramatically change.
Even bus use has dramatically changed thanks to smartphones. Bus schedules, and their unreliability, are more or less a thing of the past for smartphone users in bus systems with live GPS tracking. The app store provide 100% reliability, but the reliability certainly increases the closer one gets to the arrival time. This intern greatly increases the marketability of areas on bus routes as opposed to train routes, but that is fodder for another discussion.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 30, 2015, 03:27:06 PM
Cars pretty much have smart phones built in now so there's no need to choose.
I can't use my car anywhere that I am not in the car. Most of my life, I am not in the car.
Frankly, if you live somewhere with good enough public transportation and have access to Zipcar for when that doesn't work, and regular car rentals for long distance travel, I get why people would rather have a phone than a car.
Even with my driving heavy lifestyle, I bet I'd still save money with no convenience loss if I lived even in a city as small as Salt Lake without a car. Add in biking more, and then there's health benefits...I have a brand new, fuel efficient car and still often rent for road trips, because rental cars are cheap.
I'd rather have a car myself, but given how cheap it is to hire a car these days, I totally understand it.
I paid only $2700 for my 05 Dodge Neon that is in excellent shape in every way possible. I took it to Canada over the summer and hopefully next month I will also be driving it to Mexico. Paying a lot of money (over $5000) for a car doesn't make to much sense to me, but that's me. I feel as if there are plenty of really reliable cars for less than $5000 that will get me where I want to go. I'm not too hard to please.
Most smartphone bills are over $100 per month. My Tracfone costs me under $25 every 3 months. I invest money into my car because I like to travel. Most teens don't like to travel and I think partially that is because they never have really traveled before. I live in Terre Haute and I know lots of people that have never been north of Chicago, west of St. Louis, or east of Indianapolis (most have been to Florida however). They don't understand the freedom of being able to get behind the wheel and go wherever they want because they have never experienced it before. Most kids get smartphones now by the time they are in middle school. I'm thankful my parents didn't get me hooked to that crap. I've been to 31 states in my life and I plan on going to all the lower 48 and Alaska. I also plan on visiting all the provinces and estados in Canada and Mexico (been to Ontario and Quebec). I guarantee I will make more value of my life seeing the continent that God put me on rather than playing on some smartphone or the internet.
I also don't understand not wanting to meet up with friends or talk to people in general. That's what I've always preferred to do. I guess I should've grown up in a different generation.
I understand these people (public transportation, yadda yadda), but I would much rather have a car than a phone/computer. "Smart" phones will probably be the death of this generation. I do have a flip phone and laptop out of necessity, but that's it.
Quote from: SD Mapman on October 30, 2015, 11:14:41 PM
I understand these people (public transportation, yadda yadda), but I would much rather have a car than a phone/computer. "Smart" phones will probably be the death of this generation. I do have a flip phone and laptop out of necessity, but that's it.
This is my exact phone. I can only text and make phone calls. It doesn't have internet and I can't even take pictures with it. I think I have around 550 minutes on it too. Well..... I guess it does have a basic calendar and I can also use it as an alarm clock. :awesomeface:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41qwcvok4vL._SY300_.jpg&hash=aa11a29904d040603cb2769163e7e3b668ff27f9)
Quote from: SD Mapman on October 30, 2015, 11:14:41 PM
"Smart" phones will probably be the death of this generation.
The nice thing about having a smartphone is I can use it to easily look up synonyms for "outdated" and "Luddite".
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 30, 2015, 03:27:06 PM
Cars pretty much have smart phones built in now so there's no need to choose.
The 1997 Civics and 2001 Kias most young people drive don't.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 31, 2015, 02:34:21 PMsynonyms for "Luddite".
Competent? Skilled? Disliking cheap labour making shoddy products? ;P
Quote from: SignGeek101 on October 30, 2015, 12:43:38 PM
Considering I don't like driving (I've been on the bus for more distance than driving) I would much rather have a nice laptop for school and entertainment.
Other than using the bus (I tend to walk, or get the train, if travelling alone) this is me.
QuoteI don't really care for smartphones. I don't use mine often (although I'm typing this reply with a phone) and only charge my phone about once a week.
I don't like crappy phones - smartphones I can see the use of on occasion (GPS, camera, music player and internet access in one device), but I hate making/taking calls, and the keyboards on regular phones make text-based conversation awkward.
Quote from: kkt on October 30, 2015, 11:47:12 AMI don't like the assumption that I'm available to be pestered anytime anyplace no matter what else I'm in the middle of.
Nor do I, which is why, when I had a cell phone, I rarely used it. I was asked several times back then by telemarketers working for different networks "do you want our contract - it's £20 a month unlimited" and my response was always "no, I only spend about £10 a year on credit, if that", which always got the response "£10 a month? we have a contract where if you top up that we'll give you 200 free texts and you get to keep the credit" "no, £10 a year".
Even receiving calls was a rare event outside the house, as I just never charged it, nor had it on me unless I specifically made an effort to do so.
In the past 5 years or more of not having a cell phone, there's probably been about 10 incidents where I've needed to use one, and not all of them were actual necessary (some were "this person is giving me a lift most of the way home, to x nearby, can you pick me up from there" when I could have simply taken the train home).
The survey question is being sort of overanalyzed here–it's not like there's a dichotomy between smartphone use and car ownership. Smartphones make it easier by far to get by without a car, but they also make trips by car a lot easier.
Quote from: english si on October 31, 2015, 07:03:14 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 31, 2015, 02:34:21 PMsynonyms for "Luddite".
Competent? Skilled? Disliking cheap labour making shoddy products? ;P
I was pressed for time so I just shot off a quick, snarky comment (and I recognize you're making a quip back referencing the etymology of the term Luddite), but I have time to expand upon it a bit.
I find it rather irritating and tiresome to hear usually older people hold up the smartphone as an example of everything that is Bad And Wrong with the millennial generation, as if it's some symbol of narcissism and laziness that is clearly nothing more than a plaything. These people generally have no idea what the hell they're talking about.
A smartphone is basically a streamlined, barebones computer I can carry around with me.
That's fucking awesome. I use the phone function of my phone perhaps once a day–and yet it offers so much utility to me aside from that. When you see someone using a smartphone, they could be doing practically anything on it. On every break at work I'm using my phone in the breakroom–but I'm not playing games or tweeting or browsing Facebook; I'm sending emails, doing marketing work for my business, or reading this very forum.* Without my phone I'd be sitting there vacantly watching whatever's on TV in the breakroom. If I'm away from the house, I can look up whatever information I need about any subject in the world, the definition or spelling of any word, or any fact. I can look up the exact amount to the penny that is in my bank account. I have a watch, calculator, camera, and flashlight wherever I go. I like having a smartphone.
But then you get people who see a smartphone as some sort of expensive toy only for posting selfies to Facebook and they get all high and mighty about never having had one or how they saw some kid who was X years old with a phone and they never had one until they were Y and what do they need it for, anyway? Kids these days, sheesh! Without realizing that it is a tool that can be used for any number of uses. For all you know they're solving differential equations on their phone. It is as foolish as getting judgemental about someone owning a crescent wrench.
And of course most of the people spouting such things seem to be the type to stubbornly refuse to learn how to use a computer and expect people to baby them through it whenever they are required to use a computer. If they would exhibit the intellectual curiosity to learn how to accomplish basic tasks on a computer and at least try to understand what they're doing instead of working down a paint-by-numbers process so they can try to correct themselves instead of mentally shutting down when something goes wrong, they'd find life a lot easier. But it's easier to turn up your nose at the tools everyone else is using and declare it to be the death of an entire generation.
That being said, if I had to sacrifice phone or car I'd have to have the car. Living in Oklahoma without one is basically putting life on Expert Challenge Mode. Computer or car? Might have to sacrifice the car; it's next to impossible to live life without Internet access anymore. (I had to try, and fail, to repeatedly explain to an older lady asking me at work about applying for a job that she would have to apply online. No matter how many times you say "I'm not a computer person", it will not make HR accept a non-electronic application.)
*Not that any of these tasks are
enjoyable on a smartphone. Touch screen keyboards are of the devil. I'd much rather use a desktop if one is available at the time, but the internet is grievously hobbled at my workplace, so I can't do them on my down time at work, only on my phone on breaks.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 01, 2015, 02:20:15 AMI find it rather irritating and tiresome to hear usually older people hold up the smartphone as an example of everything that is Bad And Wrong with the millennial generation, as if it's some symbol of narcissism and laziness that is clearly nothing more than a plaything. These people generally have no idea what the hell they're talking about.
As part of the Millennial generation: it is a symbol of the narcissism and laziness of our generalised generation (especially the younger end of it). Lots of Gen Xers (totally ignoring that they are as, if not more, smart phone addicted as teenagers) moan about it as well as older generations who don't know, or care, how to use a smart phone.
Constant access to the internet and a camera always on and the flood of self-aggrandising posts on social media is a clear sign of narcissism (that said the most self-aggrandising and prolific drivel-posting people I see on social media are Gen X). IMV, though, a clearer sign is that people often aren't in the room at all, but on their phones.
That we don't have to remember anything any more because we can always just look things up on our phone is, to the older generations, a sign of our laziness and lack of skills (I'm sure they got slammed for having calculators, food processors and microwave ovens for exactly the same reasons). For me, its more worrying as phone-dependency is genuinely making us stupider - there's research that shows it.
There's tons of plusses sure, but there are negatives as well, but you are dumping all the negatives out with the ignorant curmudgeons.
I don't necessarily see those as real negatives, though. People aren't necessarily "in the room" any more without a phone than they with it. Someone reading a novel might lose themselves in it and not be in the room, but we'd scarcely criticize that behavior. Put the novel on a touch screen and it's the end of civilization.
Personally, I prefer to avoid the room anyway, since I don't have much interest in small talk with strangers; instead I can use my phone to have a conversation I'm actually interested in with someone in Michigan.
Perhaps the main issue here is that I tend to take a dim view of every generation saying the next one is going to blow the world up with some new, frightening behavior, which naturally never comes to pass. You can find political cartoons from the Middle Ages with the exact same message, but the new technology that is destroying society? Playing cards.
A smartphone, or a tablet, does some extremely useful things. Being able to deposit checks without going to the bank is extremely convenient, for example; so are things like being able to adjust the thermostat remotely or program the DVR for my wife when we aren't home and she forgot to ask me sooner. True, none of these things are "essential" and we all did just fine without them for years, just like we did without mobile phones at all for years. But they're all things that do make life easier.
The thing I find really annoying is the people, regardless of what generation they are (though this particular problem seems most prevalent with people under about age 30) who seem to be incapable of walking down the street without staring at a phone oblivious to everyone else on the sidewalk and who seem to think everyone else should watch out for them and should bob and weave around them while they walk on the wrong side. Pay attention to where you're going!
Regarding giving up a car or a phone, I think so much of whether one views that as reasonable depends on where one lives and where one is willing to live. If you live in a city and don't mind spending money on things like Uber and Zipcar when you need to get around, not having a car might work, and certainly in New York a lot of people went without cars long before services like Uber and Zipcar started. New York is far from typical for a North American city, of course. If, like me, you don't care for the experience of living in the city itself, a car is much more important because things like Uber become more important and take more time to use (due to fewer cars being nearby at any given time) and things like Zipcar may be unrealistic because you need a way to get to the Zipcar. I'm sure my opinion is colored by living in Fairfax County since 1974 and always having cars (either my parents having them when I was growing up or my having them since I turned 16). I would not want to attempt to live without a car and put my mobility in other people's hands unless and until I reach a point where I'm no longer capable of driving myself, a point I hope doesn't come for many years, if ever. Not having the car would rob me of too much flexibility and would be a serious hassle for lots of the things we like to do on our weekends. We'll use Uber for things like trips to the airport (due to the cost of parking there) or for rides home when the Metrorail is in meltdown. It's good to have options in those situations. So I won't scorn the ideas of such things, and of course to use these services you pretty much need a smartphone (I think I read Uber requires their app even though you register through their website).
Computer and smartphone shouldn't be lumped together. They're all about 1/3 each (computer, smartphone, car).
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 01, 2015, 07:47:11 AM
The thing I find really annoying is the people, regardless of what generation they are (though this particular problem seems most prevalent with people under about age 30) who seem to be incapable of walking down the street without staring at a phone oblivious to everyone else on the sidewalk and who seem to think everyone else should watch out for them and should bob and weave around them while they walk on the wrong side. Pay attention to where you're going!
Of course, this is just the person being oblivious/inconsiderate and the phone just exacerbates the behavior. You see the same behavior in a store where people are bobbing and weaving around the aisles not letting you pass because they're staring, glassy-eyed, at the potato chip displays. Or when they're standing in a group talking in any public space, blocking foot traffic.
Many tech-focused nerdy Millenials, such as Zuckerburg, have already made orders of magnitude more money than most Gen-X and Boomers would ever dream of.
And much of that money was made via developments relating to smartphones.
I wouldn't get too much down the road of the car vs smartphone debate. A car is merely a tool. Some tools, such as toilets, are timeless. Others, such as the telegraph are not. Time will tell how and if the car lasts.
But to write off something because you don't like it, or to guarantee its persistence merely because you like it, is foolish.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on November 01, 2015, 03:48:34 PM
I wouldn't get too much down the road of the car vs smartphone debate. A car is merely a tool. Some tools, such as toilets, are timeless. Others, such as the telegraph are not. Time will tell how and if the car lasts.
Given that the car merely replaced the horse and horse and wagon/buggy, I'd say it's here to stay. The telegraph was very limited in what it could do, and was outdone by the phone fairly quickly. And the phone is also very much here to stay.
Quote from: Brandon on November 02, 2015, 03:18:22 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on November 01, 2015, 03:48:34 PM
I wouldn't get too much down the road of the car vs smartphone debate. A car is merely a tool. Some tools, such as toilets, are timeless. Others, such as the telegraph are not. Time will tell how and if the car lasts.
Given that the car merely replaced the horse and horse and wagon/buggy, I'd say it's here to stay. The telegraph was very limited in what it could do, and was outdone by the phone fairly quickly. And the phone is also very much here to stay.
I would argue that a car is very limited in what it can do - move people and things over improved surfaces.
Think how much space we've allocated in this country for the storage and mobility of cars. Once airborne delivery of goods via drones becomes common, we'll see how archaic roads and parking lots will seem.
A car is useless when it approaches an unimproved surface, forest, body of water without a bridge or ferry, etc. The only terrain feature that will really matter for a drone will be its landing spots.
Again, the car will seem simple and limited in its capabilities. People will wonder what it was like not being able to deliver goods or services to areas un-served by roads.
I'd also argue that the phone is quickly becoming obsolete - smartphones are not phones in the sense we think of them, they're a computer with the ability to send and receive voice communication. If you went back to 1950 and showed people a smartphone and asked them to give it a name, I doubt very much that the word "phone" would be in that name.
Once we move away from the current physical phone infrastructure to, say, satellites, there will be nothing left of the original "telephone" - we'll have something that can do the same thing as a phone in a completely different way, but also do a whole lot more.
Whatever replaces cars will likely do the same thing - provide the ability to travel whenever/wherever, but may in no other way be a "car" as we know it.
In the sense of being able to travel wherever/whenever, you're essentially describing teleportation. Which interestingly also would mean replacing physical infrastructure with wireless methods.
Someday, perhaps, but we've barely figured out how to teleport particles in a lab. Teleporting people, if it's even physically possible, is a long way off.
Given that teleportation technically involves destroying the original and then creating a perfect copy elsewhere, I've speculated that it might not be possible to teleport any living thing and have it come out the other end still alive, that the process might unavoidably kill the subject. We don't really understand what makes a living thing live as opposed to just being an inanimate pile of flesh, so who knows.
Quote from: Duke87 on November 02, 2015, 11:10:38 PM
In the sense of being able to travel wherever/whenever, you're essentially describing teleportation. Which interestingly also would mean replacing physical infrastructure with wireless methods.
Someday, perhaps, but we've barely figured out how to teleport particles in a lab. Teleporting people, if it's even physically possible, is a long way off.
Given that teleportation technically involves destroying the original and then creating a perfect copy elsewhere, I've speculated that it might not be possible to teleport any living thing and have it come out the other end still alive, that the process might unavoidably kill the subject. We don't really understand what makes a living thing live as opposed to just being an inanimate pile of flesh, so who knows.
Not describing that at all. Merely described a means of transportation superior to the car. Namely, the vehicle is not limited to a roadway.
Besides, I'm too much of a fan of Dr McCoy to endorse teleportation.
40 years from now when these younger folks are older and have money to spend on fun things, there won't be as much demand for collector cars but maybe there will be a market for old tech toys!
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on November 03, 2015, 11:30:47 AM
40 years from now when these younger folks are older and have money to spend on fun things, there won't be as much demand for collector cars but maybe there will be a market for old tech toys!
Rick
There's a PCjr in my basement waiting for that day.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on November 02, 2015, 09:16:37 PM
I would argue that a car is very limited in what it can do - move people and things over improved surfaces.
Think how much space we've allocated in this country for the storage and mobility of cars. Once airborne delivery of goods via drones becomes common, we'll see how archaic roads and parking lots will seem.
A car is useless when it approaches an unimproved surface, forest, body of water without a bridge or ferry, etc. The only terrain feature that will really matter for a drone will be its landing spots.
Again, the car will seem simple and limited in its capabilities. People will wonder what it was like not being able to deliver goods or services to areas un-served by roads.
Let's see how much you like drone delivery when that package your ordered or your takeout pizza is shot down by a rogue baseball.
Quote from: Duke87 on November 02, 2015, 11:10:38 PM
In the sense of being able to travel wherever/whenever, you're essentially describing teleportation. Which interestingly also would mean replacing physical infrastructure with wireless methods.
Someday, perhaps, but we've barely figured out how to teleport particles in a lab. Teleporting people, if it's even physically possible, is a long way off.
Given that teleportation technically involves destroying the original and then creating a perfect copy elsewhere, I've speculated that it might not be possible to teleport any living thing and have it come out the other end still alive, that the process might unavoidably kill the subject. We don't really understand what makes a living thing live as opposed to just being an inanimate pile of flesh, so who knows.
Teleportation by actually "beaming" the matter/energy around... that's hard. More powerful (because you can filter out weapons and stuff)... but MUCH harder than simply moving the space surrounding the object to be teleported (comparatively very easy, if you have both the power and know the fundamentals of spatial folding and point-to-point wormhole generation). As such, matter/energy teleportation is rare but spatial teleportation can be quite common depending on the local technological development curve and a species' innate science/technological potential (and a million other factors).
How pervasive it is and how much it displaces other means of travel is largely based on culture and need. On Earth, where everyone values the destination and hates the journey, and tries to maximize every dollar of profit, teleportation could conceivably replace everything depending on how it's priced. I don't see that happening though. It would probably replace air and sea travel (aside from recreation), and maybe long distance car travel, but shorter distances, like commuting, could remain with the car. Keep in mind that allowing the citizenry unrestricted teleportation would be a national security concern (as well as an undeniable military asset; pervasive enough uses of teleportation could even enable advances such as micro fusion power).
Quote from: vdeane on November 03, 2015, 01:06:10 PM
Let's see how much you like drone delivery when that package your ordered or your takeout pizza is shot down by a rogue baseball.
[/quote]
*ahem*
That is all.
I'm still 11, I'd desire a car more than a phone. I myself like driving games (seriously, got Euro Truck Simulator 2 about 2 days ago, 17 hours logged in), and want to drive in the future. I know a bit about driving too, so this info is false.
Quote from: noelbotevera on November 03, 2015, 03:41:20 PM
I'm still 11, I'd desire a car more than a phone. I myself like driving games (seriously, got Euro Truck Simulator 2 about 2 days ago, 17 hours logged in), and want to drive in the future. I know a bit about driving too, so this info is false.
I hope you get some kind of running shoes or something to break up the sitting in the car and the sitting in front of the TV for 17 hours.
Good habits early and all that. Many people over 30 view your generation as never getting exercise unless forced.
As someone who is above the cutline of this survey (46) I have a question to ask: Why do I have to choose? Can't I have my cake and eat it, too?
Our little slice of the generations (end of the Baby Boomers, beginning of the Gen X) were the first to have daily access to video games and computers as teenagers, and cell phones as young adults. We are now middle age (so probably considered ancient by the respondents in this survey) and I can tell you that most of my friends and colleagues would say they wouldn't want to give up either of these things.
I had my first bag-phone that stayed in the car at all times at 26. I had my first personal carry cell phone at 33. I got my first somewhat smart phone at 40 (a Crackberry as we called them). I now have a truly capable smart phone (for the last 3 years) and find it to be indispensable, for many of the reasons that Scott addressed.
That said, I could in no way shape or form live without a car. That was the case in the 80's when I lived in Schaumburg IL and commuted to high school in downtown Chicago and it's the case now that I live in podunk eastern NC. For us, and those that came before us, the car is an extension of our home, or rather our home on wheels. The sooner we are back inside the familiar cocoon of our car, we are really home, even if we have to drive an hour to get to our actual residence, if that makes any sense.
It gives us, an admittedly false, sense of security that a train or bus just can't convey.....
I guess if I had to absolutely choose between one or the other, I would keep the car and do without the smartphone. But only as a last resort, there are other things I would give up first (TV comes to mind).
Re Smartphones -- When I went with my father to get a new phone (we couldn't get a replacement battery for his old flip phone any more), I realized that it's somewhat more difficult than you might expect to get a dumbphone.
For me, my smartphone is a multifunction device. It's what I use to read or listen to news, I have a rather large library of ebooks (dating back to the days when I carried a PDA and a candybar phone), it's handy for keeping my calendar, and it enables me to take short trips without toting a computer. (And, if I need to use a computer...I can remote into one from my phone.) I mostly don't do social media or instant messaging, however.
I could do all that without my smartphone...but it would be less convenient, require more "things", etc.
While I'm above the age break used...even though I live in exurbia, I actually can get by without a car. A couple of years ago, I managed to go a full month without driving my car (admittedly because it had problems)....but I telecommute, I live in an area where grocery delivery is available, and I did have to rent a car a couple of times (once because I couldn't bear the thought of relying on cabs to go car shopping).
Despite that, i think it would be more inconvenient to not have a car than it would be to not have a smartphone....but I could see situations (mostly involving living someplace with robust public transportation) where that would not be the case.
I don't see it as a choice either. A base ipad mini is only about $300. That won't go very far when you're car shopping.
While the base costs don't compare, the costs of a data plan vs. car insurance does, especially for a young person.
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2016, 06:29:12 PM
While the base costs don't compare, the costs of a data plan vs. car insurance does, especially for a young person.
My car insurance is like twice the cost of my data plan.
Quote from: vdeaneWhile the base costs don't compare, the costs of a data plan vs. car insurance does, especially for a young person.
Nature Boy beat me to it, but I'd argue that those don't compare either, especially for the pre-25 crowd.
I have both :awesomeface:
Lucky you. I can't afford to have both. My car insurance runs about $90-100 or so a month when broken out that way (I'm billed twice a year). My monthly cell phone bill is $43, and keep in mind that I don't have a data plan; that's just 700 minutes (outside of Verizon's network during weekdays; I have unlimited within Verizon and on nights/weekends) and unlimited texting. I would expect that to go up quite substantially if I added a data plan, especially if I added one large enough to cover typical 20-something usage of a smartphone.
I'm aware that other networks are cheaper, but my parents are on Verizon, and none of the other carriers sans AT&T (which isn't cheaper) are nearly as reliable, which is an issue for a roadgeek (and a DOT employee who goes out in the field occasionally); I can't just say "they work OK in my area so I don't care if the network is small or calls frequently drop out" (or if the service is junk, which seems to be true of most MVNOs). Basically, you pay a premium if you want customer service that doesn't screw you over (seriously, some of the MVNO horror stories I've read are REALLY bad; I'm talking about customers that lose their phone numbers because someone doesn't know what they're talking about) and a phone that works in most of the US and Canada.
You're most of the way to a reasonable data allowance even at $43. For folks with $100/month insurance (as others have said, that's quite a deal for a young driver in the northeast) it's pretty doable.
Before cell phones, people who had cars still paid a chunk of change on phone lines. Even those in their twenties. With inflation, cell phone rates aren't much more. We're talking proverbial nickels and dimes here.
If I wanted to add 1 GB of data, I'd have to pay another $20/month. Most young people probably use closer to 3 GB, which is significantly more.
It's amazing how many discounts you can get when you got a 4.0 through high school and college and have a perfect driving record (no tickets, no reported accidents).
There are, of course, other costs to having the car. I estimate I spend $500/month once maintenance and car payments (currently lease payments, then loan payments when I buy out the lease next year). I'm not exactly made of money. I also have to pay $315/month for student loans for the next eight years and my rent is higher than many peoples mortgage payments. I'm also trying to put as much money as I can into an emergency fund, as you never know when a government deficit or agency restructure can cause jobs to be cut. Put simply, I have no idea how people afford smartphones.
Quote from: vdeane on January 06, 2016, 06:08:13 PM
I estimate I spend $500/month once maintenance and car payments (currently lease payments, then loan payments when I buy out the lease next year).
You including gas in that figure? Seems really, really high.
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2016, 08:54:23 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 06, 2016, 06:08:13 PM
I estimate I spend $500/month once maintenance and car payments (currently lease payments, then loan payments when I buy out the lease next year).
You including gas in that figure? Seems really, really high.
The IRS's standard mileage reimbursement rate was 57.5 cents per mile in 2015, which will reimburse one for the fixed and variable costs of operating an automobile, including depreciation, insurance, repairs, tires, maintenance, gas and oil. If someone driving approximately 1,000 miles per month, the average cost of owning a vehicle comes to about $575 a month.
So, based on V's estimate, she's estimating she actually spends less than the average! Her figure isn't high at all.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 07, 2016, 09:09:24 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2016, 08:54:23 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 06, 2016, 06:08:13 PM
I estimate I spend $500/month once maintenance and car payments (currently lease payments, then loan payments when I buy out the lease next year).
You including gas in that figure? Seems really, really high.
The IRS's standard mileage reimbursement rate was 57.5 cents per mile in 2015, which will reimburse one for the fixed and variable costs of operating an automobile, including depreciation, insurance, repairs, tires, maintenance, gas and oil. If someone driving approximately 1,000 miles per month, the average cost of owning a vehicle comes to about $575 a month.
So, based on V's estimate, she's estimating she actually spends less than the average! Her figure isn't high at all.
Sounds like the $500/mo. is an average, then -- an average that I wonder if it's the proper summary measure for the data, given that you're not replacing tires (a notable expense) or conducting major maintenance every month, or even every year.
My smartphone saves me enough money in a month to pay for a reasonable data plan. I think most smartphone users would say the flexibility and opportunity provided by the data plan is a bargain, but I'm talking about monetizable, quantifiable savings. Last month it paid for itself one transaction. It's the single biggest improvement in travel of any kind in my lifetime (take that, E-ZPass).
We all have to weigh our priorities, but the smartphone to me is an investment that pays handsomely.
How does a smartphone save money? The only way I can think is if one replaced a car or taxi with Uber or transit.
Quote from: vdeane on January 07, 2016, 01:06:47 PM
How does a smartphone save money? The only way I can think is if one replaced a car or taxi with Uber or transit.
The ability to use the Internet to find deals when traveling. Before the era of smartphones, that was impossible.
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2016, 09:11:44 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 07, 2016, 09:09:24 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 07, 2016, 08:54:23 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 06, 2016, 06:08:13 PM
I estimate I spend $500/month once maintenance and car payments (currently lease payments, then loan payments when I buy out the lease next year).
You including gas in that figure? Seems really, really high.
The IRS's standard mileage reimbursement rate was 57.5 cents per mile in 2015, which will reimburse one for the fixed and variable costs of operating an automobile, including depreciation, insurance, repairs, tires, maintenance, gas and oil. If someone driving approximately 1,000 miles per month, the average cost of owning a vehicle comes to about $575 a month.
So, based on V's estimate, she's estimating she actually spends less than the average! Her figure isn't high at all.
Sounds like the $500/mo. is an average, then -- an average that I wonder if it's the proper summary measure for the data, given that you're not replacing tires (a notable expense) or conducting major maintenance every month, or even every year.
Right...it's an average. Let's say the car's lease is $300 a month. Another $100 for gas a month, and you're already at $400.
Remember...the IRS isn't generally the lovely, giving type of people that just provide a random figure for reimbursement that's going to benefit the taxpayer. They know that you may only have to replace tires every few years. But other expenses add up over time, and when it's time to sell or trade in the vehicle, the depreciation...which the reimbursement rate factors in...will affect the vehicle's worth.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 07, 2016, 03:07:27 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 07, 2016, 01:06:47 PM
How does a smartphone save money? The only way I can think is if one replaced a car or taxi with Uber or transit.
The ability to use the Internet to find deals when traveling. Before the era of smartphones, that was impossible.
True, but not everyone uses those features. Nor needs them. Maybe it's great when looking for a hotel or a gas station. Maybe some people go overly anal and holds up the cashier line looking for a particular store's coupon (sorry, that expired in December. 4 years ago).
One of our top people in my Department, a highly respected person in his field, doesn't have a smart phone. Hasn't affected his life one bit.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 07, 2016, 03:07:27 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 07, 2016, 01:06:47 PM
How does a smartphone save money? The only way I can think is if one replaced a car or taxi with Uber or transit.
The ability to use the Internet to find deals when traveling. Before the era of smartphones, that was impossible.
You can get better information on the fly about all kinds of purchases. My big savings last month was in not only getting a low price when I unexpectedly needed a hotel, but being able to find out this information in enough time to make the decision.
Uber can definitely be a money saver, but at least where I live, the phone will tell me if there's a bus four minutes away, saving me money over hiring any kind of car.
In general, a location-enabled connected device just means you're more likely to be in the right place at the right time without leaving it purely up to chance. My experience has been that this has been a very beneficial thing from a money standpoint and otherwise.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 07, 2016, 03:19:43 PMTrue, but not everyone uses those features. Nor needs them. Maybe it's great when looking for a hotel or a gas station. Maybe some people go overly anal and holds up the cashier line looking for a particular store's coupon (sorry, that expired in December. 4 years ago).
It is not my experience that this happens much more than it does with people writing checks, looking for change, etc. In fact, many local small businesses here now take smartphone payment with LevelUp, which speeds up transactions and reduces costs for businesses by lumping credit card transactions into single bulk charges. Users, in turn, usually get rewarded with discounts after a certain number of purchases.
QuoteOne of our top people in my Department, a highly respected person in his field, doesn't have a smart phone. Hasn't affected his life one bit.
Fair enough, but this means not having a smartphone hasn't affected his life for the better, either.
Where I live, Uber is not an option. Buses aren't really an option (they exist, but don't go where you need them to when you need them to). Taxis are expensive once you leave town...and even to ride around in town, you sometimes have to wait 20+ minutes after calling one.
So yeah, I own a car...and really couldn't get by without one. Plus, there's something freeing about the open road.
I also own a Galaxy S5 smartphone...which I could get by without, but I love it too much and won't part with it easily.
I can get by without a smartphone. I can't get by without a car.
Now that I'm home, I can properly compare this. The $500 figure was left in my head from when I was comparing the amount of spending money I have versus someone I know who has neither a car nor student loans; it was either an incorrect estimation or included roadmeets, I don't remember which (though looking at the budgeted amount for meets, it looks like I did indeed include that). The figure is actually ~$369.62/month and includes the lease ($179.59/month; interestingly, the loan for buying it outright would have come to about $300-400/month), Insurance (currently $582.82 twice a year), gas for commuting (estimated to be $15/week, but with gas prices the way they are it's probably lower), registration/inspection ($51.75/year), maintenance and my "end of winter get rid of the salt car wash" ($200/year setaside; this includes routine things like oil changes and the like plus extra just in case; this amount WILL go up as the car gets older - I budgeted $1000-1500/year when I still had the Accord), and AAA ($89/year). Roadtrips, trips for family gatherings, and roadmeets (that require staying overnight) are budgeted separately.
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 07, 2016, 05:25:37 PM
I can get by without a smartphone. I can't get by without a car.
You know, you're sounding less and less like an 11-year-old... :)
I'm 14 and I really want to drive. I've driven my dad's car around a parking lot, much to the anger of my mother after hearing that. So, since I'm sad that I can't have a car for another 1 1/2 years (I'm 14 1/2 years old), I take up my other big hobby - technology. Most of the redesigns for signs you'll see over on Redesign This! and the concept art I do over at Concept Work are done on my iMac. I also own a MacBook, an iPhone, several older Macs, an iPad, and I recently bought an Apple Watch. Call me an Apple fanboy; I even have Apple product boxes on a shelf on my wall in my bedroom. But, come my 16th birthday, I'm going to the DMV and getting a license. I don't think I'll be able to get by without a car after that.
I couldn't do my job without a smartphone. Portable email access is a necessity nowdays. I could do my job without a car, but the bike ride to work would get annoying in the summer and I'd miss being mobile in my down time.
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 07, 2016, 05:25:37 PM
I can get by without a smartphone. I can't get by without a car.
That depends on the person. I don't drive much; I can get pretty much anywhere I need by bus. That being said, I don't use my phone very often, so I don't really know which one I'd rather have.
Quote from: GCrites80s on October 31, 2015, 05:39:16 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 30, 2015, 03:27:06 PM
Cars pretty much have smart phones built in now so there's no need to choose.
The 1997 Civics and 2001 Kias most young people drive don't.
Neither does my mother's five year old Toyota Camry, which is fine for her, because the woman in in her eighties and could never handle such sophisticated electronics in her car... or anywhere else for that matter.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on January 07, 2016, 08:56:38 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 07, 2016, 05:25:37 PM
I can get by without a smartphone. I can't get by without a car.
That depends on the person. I don't drive much; I can get pretty much anywhere I need by bus. That being said, I don't use my phone very often, so I don't really know which one I'd rather have.
I live in a fairly rural place (Chambersburg is about five or so miles from where I live), and I can get to where I need to go by car. The closest major city from me is Washington DC, 90 miles away.
In contrast, it makes sense for you to get everywhere by bus because you live in a larger city than me. I don't really have public transit (a taxi service and that's it).
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 07, 2016, 09:26:08 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on January 07, 2016, 08:56:38 PM
That depends on the person. I don't drive much; I can get pretty much anywhere I need by bus. That being said, I don't use my phone very often, so I don't really know which one I'd rather have.
I live in a fairly rural place (Chambersburg is about five or so miles from where I live), and I can get to where I need to go by car. The closest major city from me is Washington DC, 90 miles away.
In contrast, it makes sense for you to get everywhere by bus because you live in a larger city than me. I don't really have public transit (a taxi service and that's it).
This right here is the crux of the matter. People in the 18-34 age bracket tend to live disproportionately in cities where not having a smartphone is more of a hindrance to having a social life than not having a car is.
Also, some people can and do have both. It's fairly common, actually. But, the poll asks one or the other. We may presume that a decent number of people who have both consider their electronics more important than their car.
And yes, most people in here are not going to agree with the majority of respondents in the poll, but we're a group of people who enjoy driving as a hobby and tend not to have highly active social lives. Obviously our priorities are going to be influenced by both of these things.
Officially as of today, I own both. :sombrero:
I also own a smartphone and a car. The funny thing is that the car I own is not the same as the one I drive :sombrero:.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on January 10, 2016, 09:19:43 AM
I also own a smartphone and a car. The funny thing is that the car I own is not the same as the one I drive :sombrero:.
But do you use the smartphone that you own? j/k
I hate to say this: I'm 35 years old going onto 36 next month and I don't drive (no license, no car and no insurance), other than my wife is able to drive and either I take the bus or rides my bike to work not far from my house. It became harder and more difficult to obtain the ability to drive over the years, due to tougher laws and more cars along with more bad drivers on the roads in CA.
About smartphones and other gadgets (I own a Samsung Galaxy 4), the 18-35 year old demographic finds them easier to use, convenient and more fun. They don't give us the same level of stress than driving does and car ownership laws. Maybe less people in my generation cohort don't want to drive or put up with the burden and responsibilities of driving when just trying to drive to work (and back home) leads to more headaches than the workday.
First off, I have been using an Android smartphone since December 2010 (it was a graduation gift to myself), and am now on my third Android phone (12/2010-7/2012 was a Motorola Droid, 7/2012-8/2015 was a Samsung S3, and 8/2015-present is a LG G4). I prefer the Android ecosystem because of the open architecture verses the "must get the blessing of Apple" mentality, not to mention the forced obsolescence and non-repairability of the Apple product. Now, if you search for all of my past posts, you will see that I frequently reference to the "latest iToyz" which is the reference to the Apple products. This is more in reference to the people who are camped out in front of the stores to get the latest device on day one even though their current device is only about a year old. :banghead:
Having gotten that out of the way, I look at my smartphone as a extension to my desktop system, not as a replacement, and it helps with cloud-based computing. Some examples on how I used my phone:
- Appointment book using online calendar. Trust me, I have lost many appointment books from well-meaning people. Using an online calendar, I can plan my schedule and view it on my phone, tablet, or computer. In addition, I can put in the location which, with a tap, can be transferred to GPS. I can also email said invite to a friend of mine so that we are both on the same page.
- GPS which gives me an estimated time of travel and any delays along the way including a "leave by" time. Yes, this replaces maps.
- While driving on a road trip yesterday, I listened to an download audiobook and some pre-recorded MP3s. This has replaced the tape player, the CD player, and yes, even the MP3 device.
- I have also saved PDFs of hotel reservation confirmations and event confirmations. When I went on Amtrak last week, they scanned in the code from my phone. How many of us lost paper tickets or confirmations?
- When I was in Las Vegas last year for a conference, I got around Las Vegas via public transit rather than attempt to drive the strip. TransitApp (http://markholtz.info/transitapp) came in very handy when figuring out which buses were the best when going from point A to point B. Especially when I went to a Verizon store to get a new phone. :)
- While shopping, I have scanned in the bar code of a product I was interested in to not only read the reviews, but also to do a price comparison.
- While waiting for my meal to be delivered in a restaurant or waiting in line, I was reading some news articles on my phone.
- Anyone heard of two-factor authentication? As an additional layer of security for logging in, I enter in a code from my cell phone for secure sites.
- Banking applications allow me to check my current balances in my bank account.
- GasBuddy is a good app to have when finding the best price for gas when traveling.
Over the past five years, I have seen many improvements in smartphones and applications.
Now, in regards to transportation systems and having "drones deliver stuff", keep dreaming. If you bought it, a truck brought it.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 07, 2016, 03:07:27 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 07, 2016, 01:06:47 PM
How does a smartphone save money? The only way I can think is if one replaced a car or taxi with Uber or transit.
The ability to use the Internet to find deals when traveling. Before the era of smartphones, that was impossible.
When my dad and I travel together we stop at rest areas and get the "free hotel deal books". There are usually some pretty good deals in those.
Quote from: vdeane on January 07, 2016, 01:06:47 PM
How does a smartphone save money? The only way I can think is if one replaced a car or taxi with Uber or transit.
Gas Buddy application. Now, when I'm in my home area, I fill up at Costco because it is about five minutes from both where I live and work. However, if I'm traveling, and there is no Costco nearby, I can find a gas station with a good price on gas.
How about shopping? I have often scanned the bar code on a product in order to get comparative pricing and to read the reviews of a product.
I have a smartphone (and tablet) that I can't go without, and I don't drive. Ask me anything.
Some say that the smartphone is the mass transit innovation of the last decade because of how it's affected car-less people like me: having real-time bus/train arrivals at the fingertips (and forgoing schedules entirely in some corridors) is very freeing.
(But on the other hand, cell phones have caused many distracted-driver incidents that can often result in the death of a pedestrian, cyclist, or other driver.)
A $100+ cell phone bill every month does not save you money. The savings are negated by the bill itself. I have a Tracfone in my car and I only pay $25 every 90 days.
Quote from: US 41 on January 13, 2016, 10:24:56 PM
A $100+ cell phone bill every month does not save you money. The savings are negated by the bill itself. I have a Tracfone in my car and I only pay $25 every 90 days.
Who pays $100+ a month?
My assertion is that the additional price of a data plan over and above a talk/text/whatever basic-necessity phone can pay for itself. For me this is clear.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 13, 2016, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: US 41 on January 13, 2016, 10:24:56 PM
A $100+ cell phone bill every month does not save you money. The savings are negated by the bill itself. I have a Tracfone in my car and I only pay $25 every 90 days.
Who pays $100+ a month?
My assertion is that the additional price of a data plan over and above a talk/text/whatever basic-necessity phone can pay for itself. For me this is clear.
I do, partially because I pay for a family plan (2 smartphones) which have unlimited talk, unlimited text, and 3GB of data per month. I also try to use WiFI as much as possible.
Oh, did I mention that I don't have a home phone number? I haven't had a home phone since 2002.
Quote from: ZLoth on January 14, 2016, 01:42:21 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 13, 2016, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: US 41 on January 13, 2016, 10:24:56 PM
A $100+ cell phone bill every month does not save you money. The savings are negated by the bill itself. I have a Tracfone in my car and I only pay $25 every 90 days.
Who pays $100+ a month?
My assertion is that the additional price of a data plan over and above a talk/text/whatever basic-necessity phone can pay for itself. For me this is clear.
I do, partially because I pay for a family plan (2 smartphones) which have unlimited talk, unlimited text, and 3GB of data per month. I also try to use WiFI as much as possible.
Oh, did I mention that I don't have a home phone number? I haven't had a home phone since 2002.
So it probably breaks down to well under $100/month per line.
I dropped the land line in 2003. I explained to a 6-year-old recently that when I was her age all phones were attached to something. The look I got was like I'd just said we ate apples while they were still attached to the tree.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 14, 2016, 06:37:28 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on January 14, 2016, 01:42:21 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 13, 2016, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: US 41 on January 13, 2016, 10:24:56 PM
A $100+ cell phone bill every month does not save you money. The savings are negated by the bill itself. I have a Tracfone in my car and I only pay $25 every 90 days.
Who pays $100+ a month?
My assertion is that the additional price of a data plan over and above a talk/text/whatever basic-necessity phone can pay for itself. For me this is clear.
I do, partially because I pay for a family plan (2 smartphones) which have unlimited talk, unlimited text, and 3GB of data per month. I also try to use WiFI as much as possible.
Oh, did I mention that I don't have a home phone number? I haven't had a home phone since 2002.
So it probably breaks down to well under $100/month per line.
I dropped the land line in 2003. I explained to a 6-year-old recently that when I was her age all phones were attached to something. The look I got was like I'd just said we ate apples while they were still attached to the tree.
My Tracfone is only $100 per year so I have everyone on here beat. However I can only call and text on it (no camera, no internet etc). I bought the phone over 6 years ago at Dollar General for $8. I never even come close to using all my minutes. I hate talking / texting and only do it when necessary. I do have a laptop so if it's necessary when I'm on the road I can hook up to the internet by sitting in a McDonalds parking lot somewhere. I did this a lot in Canada since my phone doesn't work outside of the US. I don't sign contracts or take out loans period. In fact I have a joke about how I'd live in a tent if I had to, to stay out of debt. If I didn't buy another card I owe Tracfone nothing.
BTW I've already saved up enough money to buy a new (different used, but nice) car after I run the wheels off of my current car, which should be several years down the road. So cars are definitely a very high priority on my list.
Quote from: US 41 on January 14, 2016, 11:43:53 PM
My Tracfone is only $100 per year so I have everyone on here beat. However I can only call and text on it (no camera, no internet etc). I bought the phone over 6 years ago at Dollar General for $8. I never even come close to using all my minutes. I hate talking / texting and only do it when necessary. I do have a laptop so if it's necessary when I'm on the road I can hook up to the internet by sitting in a McDonalds parking lot somewhere. I did this a lot in Canada since my phone doesn't work outside of the US. I don't sign contracts or take out loans period. In fact I have a joke about how I'd live in a tent if I had to, to stay out of debt. If I didn't buy another card I owe Tracfone nothing.
BTW I've already saved up enough money to buy a new (different used, but nice) car after I run the wheels off of my current car, which should be several years down the road. So cars are definitely a very high priority on my list.
To each their own. I own a Android smartphone, a Android tablet, a Windows laptop, and a Windows desktop. And, sometimes, that tablet is more handy than a laptop.
As for purchasing a new car.... when I got rear-ended in March, 2014 and had my vehicle totaled, I ended up purchasing a new car (on April 1st, of all days), and having a car loan. The car I purchased was a year-old previous daily rental with 15K miles on it, and the car loan was paid off within one month.
Quote from: US 41 on January 13, 2016, 12:13:45 PM
When my dad and I travel together we stop at rest areas and get the "free hotel deal books". There are usually some pretty good deals in those.
I
still do that now. And with all the talk about the bills, I'm glad I just have a cheap flip phone that you pay for with a gift card.