I was noticing that in Wichita, Kansas that many ramps along the US 54 & 400 freeway (still referred to as Kellog Avenue despite it being freeway grade) are so close together that weaving issues are created especially at the I-235 cloverleaf.
Does KDOT have plans to redo the whole Kellog freeway so that the ramps are better aligned? Also the N Bound I-135 to W Bound K-96 and S Bound I-235 is also a bottleneck as the tight cloverleaf ramp is too inadequate to handle the traffic counts that it can handle plus the merge with K-254 W Bound also slows traffic as well because it has to alternate with K-254 as well.
this?
http://www.235kelloggcentral.com/
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F17Pa4ba.jpg&hash=134e4fa79f0ba0d9abe71fd2020cc5be4be5c4e6)
Will any more sections of US 54/400 be upgraded to freeway standards in the near future?
I seem to remember, but may be wrong, that either the city of Wichita or Sedgwick County administers the Kellogg freeway, despite it carrying US-54/400.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 04, 2015, 03:08:14 PM
Will any more sections of US 54/400 be upgraded to freeway standards in the near future?
They're still working east toward Greenwich Rd.
http://www.scrippsmedia.com/kfdi/news/More-improvements-announced-for-East-Kellogg-279540712.html
Quote from: roadman65 on November 03, 2015, 10:22:18 PMI was noticing that in Wichita, Kansas that many ramps along the US 54 & 400 freeway (still referred to as Kellogg Avenue despite it being freeway grade) are so close together that weaving issues are created especially at the I-235 cloverleaf.
Yup, ramp spacing is tight, to the point that normal practice is to use the middle lane as the driving lane to avoid frequent lane changes to accommodate merging traffic. It hardly helps that Wichita has no ramp metering and local drivers tend to enter freeways on very tight headways.
The bulk of the current Kellogg freeway was built after 1980 with partial funding from a half-cent local sales tax increment.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 03, 2015, 10:22:18 PMDoes KDOT have plans to redo the whole Kellogg freeway so that the ramps are better aligned?
No. With the exception of the I-235/Kellogg cloverleaf-to-stack/turban-hybrid conversion, which will get seriously underway after this winter, KDOT is not going back and fixing any segments that are already freeway. Besides this interchange upgrade, the only major construction activity on Kellogg will be the Cypress-Wiedemann project (basically, renovating the Turnpike/Webb/Kellogg interchange and extending the freeway west to K-96), and that will be it for extending the freeway east of Wichita--there are no plans to extend it through Andover to Augusta, and in fact the existing alignment through Andover is heavily built up. On the west side, KDOT has been building frontage roads for future interchanges at section line road crossings between Wichita and Goddard, and the ultimate plan is to extend the freeway through or past Goddard to a planned stack/turban hybrid interchange that will be the western terminus of the proposed Wichita Northwest Bypass (a westward extension of K-254).
Depending on when you were in town, you would have seen various phases of power line relocation in progress along I-235 between Central and Kellogg. About a month ago, crews were erecting closed-section metal power poles near the existing pylons. Now power lines have been transferred to the new poles and the old pylons have been toppled to the ground for dismantling. There are also power pole replacements in progress elsewhere in west Wichita, along Tyler Road between Central and 13th, and I suspect they are related.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 03, 2015, 10:22:18 PMAlso the N Bound I-135 to W Bound K-96 and S Bound I-235 is also a bottleneck as the tight cloverleaf ramp is too inadequate to handle the traffic counts that it can handle plus the merge with K-254 W Bound also slows traffic as well because it has to alternate with K-254 as well.
This is the North Junction and the current plan is a comprehensive rebuild with flyover ramps and collector-distributor lanes to keep traffic staying on K-96 completely separate from I-135/I-235. I don't expect any actual construction work to occur as part of the current comprehensive transportation program (T-WORKS), which expires around 2018. I think it is highly questionable that there will be a follow-up program given the dire condition of the state budget.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 04, 2015, 06:48:30 PMI seem to remember, but may be wrong, that either the city of Wichita or Sedgwick County administers the Kellogg freeway, despite it carrying US-54/400.
AIUI, local involvement is limited to first construction for some segments that have been funded by the local sales tax increment (which covers all of Sedgwick County). This includes the Northeast Freeway as well as Kellogg. Here is the breakdown, as I understand it:
Kellogg--currently a freeway from 111th St. W. (just west of Maize Road) east to Cypress (just shy of the Turnpike ramps):
* Maize, Tyler--built by City of Wichita (
ca. 2005 2004), plans set has a KDOT title sheet
* Airport connector interchange--built by KDOT (1970's)
* Dugan Road interchange--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (
mid-1990's 1996)
* I-235 cloverleaf--built by KDOT (1961); upgrade currently in progress is also administered by KDOT
* West Street SPUI--built by KDOT (ca. 1987)
* Edwards, Meridian, Seneca-Sycamore, Arkansas River bridge, downtown flyover--built by City of Wichita (
mid-1990's 1993), plans sets do not have KDOT title sheets or KDOT project numbers
* Railroad overpass, Washington, I-135 turban, Grove, Hillside--built by KDOT (
late 1970's/early 1980's 1979-1981)
* Oliver--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (late 1990's)
* Edgemoor, Woodlawn--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (early 2000's)
* Armour, Rock--built by City of Wichita (opened 2009, IIRC), plans set has a KDOT title sheet
The westside frontage road jobs are KDOT projects while the Turnpike/Webb portion of the Cypress-Wiedemann macro project is being divided between the Turnpike Authority and the City of Wichita, with the latter agency letting the contract and the plans set having a KDOT title sheet (as is also usually true of major Turnpike projects).
K-96 Northeast Freeway, from I-135 east to US 54:
* Northern flank (I-135 to Webb Road)--built by City of Wichita (
late 1980's 1993)
* Eastern flank (Webb Road to US 54)--built by Sedgwick County (
early 1990's 1994)
* Greenwich Road interchange ramp addition (part of TIF improvements in connection with a new Cabela's nearby)--built by City of Wichita (just finished), plans set does not have a KDOT title sheet but does have a KDOT project number
I don't recall where the dividing line was between the northern and eastern flanks, but suspect it was at Webb Road. I have never seen the construction plans for any of K-96 with the exception of the Greenwich Road ramp addition.
This is the best I can do with very limited access to KDOT as-builts. They are technically public records, but KDOT seems to loathe the idea of their being readily available outside the Eisenhower State Office Building and hasn't implemented any form of self-service access that is open to public users. Access through open records requests is prohibitively (and unnecessarily) expensive since KDOT charges ~$25/hour for compilation
and for supervision for in-person inspection of records.
Just to add: the sales tax increment has financed projects elsewhere on the Wichita freeway network, including the 13th Street flyover that was the first stop on the driving tour of the July 2013 road meet (built by City of Wichita, plans set has a KDOT title sheet, KDOT handled contract letting). There is also ongoing construction of a restricted-access half diamond at K-96/Hoover Road (just northwest of the K-96/I-235 western interchange and also near the old Brooks landfill) that I think bypassed the KDOT letting and is locally supervised.
Edit: Above has been corrected in accord with the KDOT pavement summary map.
I saw those power lines being built and the old pylons were being dismantled. I thought that maybe the power company was upgrading or something. That should be somewhat improvement over the current outdated cloverleaf there when completed.
I also saw that just west of the Turnpike Entrance on Kellog there is a span wire signal assembly there. I assume that the freeway will continue soon, however no warning that the freeway ends and the arterial starts at that intersection. In fact I was in for a surprise to see that signal there being at 3 miles away on an overhead assembly they have a guide sign for both I-35 and the KTA as if it is still freeway where the two routes interchange. There is no signal ahead signs either like on the western end where flashing yellow beacons attached to the signal ahead warning signs are erected. You would figure that some accidents had to happen by now because of that as the signal is well hidden from the freeway itself.
Also why is all the descriptors being removed from Wichita Streets? I see Rock Road is now just "Rock" and Oliver Road is "Oliver" and Pawnee I have no idea if its an avenue or a street as I-135 signs the city roads without descriptors as well.
One more thing is the truncation of K-42 to I-235 instead of continuing along Southwest Blvd. to US 54 & 400. I am guessing that KDOT handed down that part to the City of Wichita, so they put up an END sign EB at I-235 and removed the shields on US 54 & 400.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 07:35:18 PMI saw those power lines being built and the old pylons were being dismantled. I thought that maybe the power company was upgrading or something. That should be somewhat improvement over the current outdated cloverleaf there when completed.
Those lines are being relocated to get them out of the way of the interchange improvement project, which also includes widening of I-235 north to Central. I think the power company (Westar, I assume) is also taking advantage of the opportunity to replace outdated poles elsewhere in west Wichita.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 07:35:18 PMI also saw that just west of the Turnpike Entrance on Kellogg there is a span wire signal assembly there. I assume that the freeway will continue soon, however no warning that the freeway ends and the arterial starts at that intersection. In fact I was in for a surprise to see that signal there being at 3 miles away on an overhead assembly they have a guide sign for both I-35 and the KTA as if it is still freeway where the two routes interchange. There is no signal ahead signs either like on the western end where flashing yellow beacons attached to the signal ahead warning signs are erected. You would figure that some accidents had to happen by now because of that as the signal is well hidden from the freeway itself.
The signal supported on span wires will be gone when the Cypress-Wiedemann project is finished. And, yes, the end of the freeway is rather abrupt, with no end-of-freeway warning signs, no diamond warning sign with flashing beacon, an apparent freeway lane drop that in actuality is a right-turn-only lane on a surface arterial, etc. But in practice it works reasonably well since the majority of traffic is local, already familiar with the light, and is prepared to slow down. The speed limit also drops in advance. The local traffic forms a sort of rolling roadblock for "stranger" through traffic.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 07:35:18 PMAlso why is all the descriptors being removed from Wichita Streets? I see Rock Road is now just "Rock" and Oliver Road is "Oliver" and Pawnee I have no idea if its an avenue or a street as I-135 signs the city roads without descriptors as well.
The descriptors were never there in the first place, but will be included on new signs to be installed as part of a sign refurbishment for which KDOT let the contract about six months ago. You are coming through town before any of the new signs have been erected.
The construction plans are still available online:
I-135: http://ksdot1.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/515042595p.pdf
I-235: http://ksdot1.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/515042595p2.pdf
K-96 (including expressway section between Maize and the Reno county line): http://ksdot1.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/515042595p3.pdf
If you are into taking sign photos, the existing signs are not a bad choice, since they represent a Wichita-specific oddity that will soon be vanishing.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 07:35:18 PMOne more thing is the truncation of K-42 to I-235 instead of continuing along Southwest Blvd. to US 54 & 400. I am guessing that KDOT handed down that part to the City of Wichita, so they put up an END sign EB at I-235 and removed the shields on US 54 & 400.
Yes. A past thread has the details. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10439.msg247288#msg247288) Originally, both K-2 and K-42 came into Wichita and terminated at US 54, where Southwest Blvd. becomes Edwards Ave. K-2 was a "useless overlap"/"useless multiplex" between US 54 and the K-2/K-42 split near Suppesville, so this portion of it was eliminated along with many other such overlaps statewide in December 1994. Then, in what apparently was an exchange of maintained lane mileage between KDOT and the City of Wichita in connection with construction of the Oliver interchange on Kellogg, K-42 was cut back from US 54 to I-235 in March 2001.
As a result of these changes, the Edwards Ave. signs on Kellogg have huge green blanks where the K-2 and K-42 shields used to go. They have never been trimmed down, unlike the signs for the Garden Plain exit off US 54 (the road into town used to be K-163). However, there is an interchange sequence sign on I-235 westbound between Seneca and Meridian that still has a K-2 as well as a K-42 shield (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6282861,-97.360476,3a,75y,280.97h,86.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sERG7gRSa1UF4rUGnGaxlMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1). It was actually carbon-copied, K-2 shield and all, in an early draft of the sign refurbishment plans.
Did you see the huge blank yellow sign on westbound US 54 just past the West Street SPUI?
No I missed that, but saw the erroneous K-2 sign on I-235 going NB just north of Seneca. Another mistake I noticed was at the east end of K-96 it still shows it continuing east of its freeway end at US 54 and 400. If I am not mistaken, K-96 was truncated in favor of US 400 as that pretty much took its route east of Augusta as MO 96 is now orphaned and only got a reclaim to fame when US 66 was decommissioned east of Carthage.
I like though how they did US 54 through the East Kellogg Business District with the Texas U turns on each overpass. However, I think Rock Road should be an SPUI as the two signals there have four overall phases to clear out the overpass over the freeway. It basically works as one intersection with two separate signals for each service road.
Also I am impressed with how Wichita is painting all their new signal poles brown and using all black heads. Although the full black color may be statewide as I have seen them in a few other places. There are still some span wires left which are all yellow as one is on Broadway south of US 54. I assume that Wichita will change it out for the brown poles and black heads.
I did notice something weird though at Pawnee and Old K-15 near Spangles, all the signal heads at that intersection are 3M. Usually they are only used for protected lefts or where two signals work as one where they do not want the second signals orientation to be known to the drivers before the first signal to prevent signal running of the first. However, this had none of the such.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 10:29:02 PMAnother mistake I noticed was at the east end of K-96 it still shows it continuing east of its freeway end at US 54 and 400. If I am not mistaken, K-96 was truncated in favor of US 400 as that pretty much took its route east of Augusta as MO 96 is now orphaned and only got a reclaim to fame when US 66 was decommissioned east of Carthage.
Yup, K-96 was eliminated east of Wichita since it was entirely subsumed by US 400 and other routes. But there is still that stray K-96 marker just past the US 54 trumpet . . .
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 10:29:02 PMI like though how they did US 54 through the East Kellogg Business District with the Texas U turns on each overpass. However, I think Rock Road should be an SPUI as the two signals there have four overall phases to clear out the overpass over the freeway. It basically works as one intersection with two separate signals for each service road.
I like the crossovers, but I am not really happy with the way Armour/Rock Road are laid out and actively try to avoid that area. I do have to go there from time to time to buy OEM parts for a family car at the only Toyota dealership in town (Eddy's), which is just before the Armour light as you go east. I find traffic on the frontage road is usually so fast and heavy that I can't exit at Armour and move to the right fast enough to turn into Eddy's or the adjacent side street. It operates so close to capacity that you effectively have to have lane assignment memorized to navigate it efficiently.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 10:29:02 PMAlso I am impressed with how Wichita is painting all their new signal poles brown and using all black heads. Although the full black color may be statewide as I have seen them in a few other places. There are still some span wires left which are all yellow as one is on Broadway south of US 54. I assume that Wichita will change it out for the brown poles and black heads.
I don't expect that to happen anytime soon. The whole area is very down-at-heel and the public infrastructure looks pretty much as it did 30 years ago when I was riding the bus to school.
Because Broadway was the routing of US 81 through Wichita before I-135 was built, it still has a large number of highway motels, some of which continue in business as hot-pillow joints. Before a crackdown some years ago, it was where one went to find a prostitute. It still has salvage yards, small-time used-car dealerships, the only auto auction house that allows members of the public on the floor to bid, etc.
Wichita has a classic north-south problem as well as an east-west problem. The traditional rule of thumb is that east-side Wichita has more income inequality since it has the millionaires' enclave as well as the black part of town, while the west side is just plain middle-class folks. But in some respects the disparities are greater along the north-south axis. While north Wichita has some poor neighborhoods, there is no neighborhood in south Wichita that could fairly be described as wealthy. This is part of the reason you are much more likely to see older span-wire installations in south Wichita.
Wichita has the ZIP codes with highest and lowest infant mortality in Kansas. Highest infant mortality is in 67218 (a Douglas-Hillside-Pawnee-Woodlawn box in southeast Wichita), where I went to school. Lowest infant mortality is in 67212 (a Douglas-119th West-21st-West box in northwest Wichita), where I grew up.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 10:29:02 PMI did notice something weird though at Pawnee and Old K-15 near Spangles, all the signal heads at that intersection are 3M. Usually they are only used for protected lefts or where two signals work as one where they do not want the second signals orientation to be known to the drivers before the first signal to prevent signal running of the first. However, this had none of the such.
I think this type of signal was favored in the past for diagonal boulevards. I seem to recall their being used along George Washington Boulevard (e.g. the intersections with Hillside and Harry), and possibly also Southwest Boulevard, but they are definitely not used on Zoo Boulevard.
I was noticing that when I drove on Rock Road that it seemed middle class and higher. Also Bel Aire seems like an upper middle class neighborhood.
Also, like you said the motels on Broadway obviously were the old highway motels of when US 81 graced the city. Now with I-135 taking over the interchange motels are the ones used by the travelers, as all those now are roach motels and pillow joints to have sex. Even the Colonial Motel just one block from Kellogg, which I thought was a highway motel until my friend who lives on Pawnee Street in those Greenview Apartments across from the River, told me that it was like the others on the strip.
I did notice that around the area of Pawnee near the Wal Mart that the area is somewhat sketchy, as even my friend who lives in Greenview which is a section 8 apartment house for seniors with reduced rent, says the area is just all right and has still a lot of rift raft around. However, his apartment does not have the usual derelict crowds hanging around like many other sketchy areas do. Everyone who lived there was just living to afford low rent apartment rates due to living on the little our government gives out to retirees these days, but no other issues. I felt safe when I stayed four nights with him this past week there.
I did notice that the old Arkansas River Bridge (the southbound span) prohibits trucks and must detour around it. I am guessing the last inspection brought up issues and I will assume that it will be years before the city repairs or fixes those that are most likely structural issues that warrant the trucks off the span.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 11:54:46 PMI was noticing that when I drove on Rock Road that it seemed middle class and higher. Also Bel Aire seems like an upper middle class neighborhood.
There is serious money on Rock Road; I have relatives who used to live in a subdivision to the east of it (between Central and 13th Street) in a house currently valued at $640,000. Bel Aire has a countrified appearance because there are a few houses on large lots with split-rail fences, but the average house price there (about $146,000) is nearly the same as in parts of near-northwest Wichita that are considered prosperous but not wealthy.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 11:54:46 PMI did notice that around the area of Pawnee near the Wal Mart that the area is somewhat sketchy, as even my friend who lives in Greenview which is a section 8 apartment house for seniors with reduced rent, says the area is just all right and has still a lot of rift raff around. However, his apartment does not have the usual derelict crowds hanging around like many other sketchy areas do. Everyone who lived there was just living to afford low rent apartment rates due to living on the little our government gives out to retirees these days, but no other issues. I felt safe when I stayed four nights with him this past week there.
That apartment complex is pretty decent, and it helps that it is just across the street from one of the riverside parks. The general area (Pawnee and Broadway) hit bottom in the late nineties/early noughties and is currently in the middle of a revival.
There used to be a mall, Pawnee Plaza, at the southeast corner, with Woolco as the anchor store. Malls of America has a blurb with a 1973 photo here:
http://mallsofamerica.blogspot.com/2006/11/pawnee-plaza-mall.html
There were offices there in addition to retail. My grandmother was working there for Southwestern Bell as an executive secretary when she retired in 1981.
At some point in the late 1970's or early 1980's, Walmart moved in and became the anchor store. The mall began dying, since--like other smaller shopping centers around Wichita like the Harry Street Mall and Twin Lakes--it could not compete with Towne East or Towne West. Eventually there were media reports of used diapers left in the Walmart parking lot. Finally, around 2003, Walmart bought up the entire mall, demolished all of the buildings, and built the Supercenter that currently stands there. The City of Wichita refurbished the Pawnee & Broadway intersection as a complementary improvement.
Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 11:54:46 PMI did notice that the old Arkansas River Bridge (the southbound span) prohibits trucks and must detour around it. I am guessing the last inspection brought up issues and I will assume that it will be years before the city repairs or fixes those that are most likely structural issues that warrant the trucks off the span.
The southbound span is the John Mack Bridge and is the longest surviving Marsh arch bridge left in Kansas, and the second longest in the US.
http://www.kansassampler.org/8wonders/architectureresults.php?id=64
The city actually considered demolishing it and replacing it almost twenty-five years ago, but decided to impose a truck ban and preserve it after there was an outcry. It was a stop on the Wichita meet tour back in July 2013.
It sounds like you had a good visit and a chance to learn the town in some depth.
Yes I had an awesome visit. I learned a lot about the town as I just stayed there from last Wednesday to this Wednesday. The only thing that you need is a bus to the airport as your town lacks that.
I was amazed at Downtown. You have a lot of nice historical buildings in addition to the new office buildings. The riverfront is kept nice. You have the Orphium Theater as well as the In Trust Arena. My friend I stayed with says it should have been built bigger with more seating capacity, as he thinks its way too small.
I love Braums and even Spangles. Both are regional chains in your area. Braums has a nice dairy store inside and great milk! The ice cream with its two scoop cones at a buck seventy nine was not only delicious but well worth the price! The burgers put the other fast food to shame. Spangles was OK, but its the 50's nostalgic atmosphere of the place that made that place. Then the Town and Country Restaurant near US 54 and I-235 that is great. I did not visit this time, but when I was there in July I ate there twice. Once on way to the airport to fly home as breakfast was so good there. The pancakes were huge!
Yes I plan to visit again. Everyone there seems so nice. For roading to see improvements along the areas you mention will make it. I know someone on here who has yet clinched I-135, who maybe I might try to do it with him. I have not yet clinched it either as I would like to see from Newton to Salina as I have only done from its southern terminus to US 50 so far.
I also want to clinch K-96 from the Northwest interchange to Hutchinson as it seems interesting on the map. Part freeway and other parts arterial. I know that on four lane non freeways Kansas allows 70 mph just like on most of K-254.
Does anyone know what department is handling the improvements along 53rd Street North, straddling the Park City and Wichita line? The entire roadway has been ripped up east of Hydraulic, and power lines are being relocated, plus who know what else. I cannot find any project info on the websites for any of the departments I've looked on.
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2016, 02:48:31 PMDoes anyone know what department is handling the improvements along 53rd Street North, straddling the Park City and Wichita line? The entire roadway has been ripped up east of Hydraulic, and power lines are being relocated, plus who know what else. I cannot find any project info on the websites for any of the departments I've looked on.
That project was let by KDOT in December 2015 under project number 87 N-0606-01. Construction plans are here:
http://ksdot1.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/515122575p.pdf
It is essentially a widening of 53rd Street that includes reconstruction of its intersection with Hydraulic. Project limits are I-135 in the west and the northwest corner of the Heights High School campus in the east.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 05, 2015, 11:28:35 AM
* Dugan Road interchange--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (mid-1990's 1996)
* Oliver--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (late 1990's)
* Edgemoor, Woodlawn--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (early 2000's)
I just texted my friend, who is a bridge engineer in Wichita (you met him during the meet). His reply:
"I believe those were exclusively built with City funds. KDOT is a part of our Webb project but they were not a part of the ones you mention. Ironically, I THINK KDOT owns those bridges now, though. Not sure about that. "
I think our mutual acquaintance is correct that the three projects in question were funded out of the sales-tax increment. I thought KDOT might have done them because when I approached the City of Wichita for construction plans for all of the Kellogg projects, those were not included in the package I was given, as was also the case for the 1979-1981 stretch of freeway from Topeka to Bluff, which was definitely done by KDOT. I was told I would have to go to KDOT for plans for any segments not in city files.
According to the current CCL map for Wichita, all of freeway US 54 within the city limits is maintained by KDOT.
As an aside, the KDOT project number is not an useful guide as to lead agency, because all of the recent Kellogg freeway projects have had KDOT jurisdiction identifiers ("K" or "KA" in the project number) regardless of whether KDOT has actually been in charge of construction. KDOT has even assigned its own shadow project numbers to the part of the freeway that runs from the West Street SPUI to the railroad overpass just east of downtown, which was designed by HNTB for the City of Wichita and does not have KDOT title sheets.
I suspect the employer of our mutual acquaintance has done quite well out of the Kellogg/Webb/KTA project. The construction currently in progress is for a descoped version of the original design that has access to the Turnpike only from the south side of Kellogg. I remember reading a City Council agenda packet calling for our acquaintance's employer to be paid an amount in the high seven figures (maybe $8 million?) to develop full PS&E for the original design, which ultimately ran to almost 1200 sheets and was quite tasty with a lot of bridge work and about 25 sign panel detail and sign elevation sheets. It had to be discarded in favor of the current concept when the low bid came in well over estimate, though I suspect a substantial proportion of the original final design work was recycled in the course of assembling PS&E for the current construction project. (I do not have a copy of it, since it was farmed out to a blueprint company instead of being made available online for public download.)
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 07, 2016, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2016, 02:48:31 PMDoes anyone know what department is handling the improvements along 53rd Street North, straddling the Park City and Wichita line? The entire roadway has been ripped up east of Hydraulic, and power lines are being relocated, plus who know what else. I cannot find any project info on the websites for any of the departments I've looked on.
That project was let by KDOT in December 2015 under project number 87 N-0606-01. Construction plans are here:
http://ksdot1.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/515122575p.pdf
It is essentially a widening of 53rd Street that includes reconstruction of its intersection with Hydraulic. Project limits are I-135 in the west and the northwest corner of the Heights High School campus in the east.
Rats. We were all hoping they would be four-laning 53rd Street. Unfortunately, it looks like the "widening" is actually just the installation of a sidewalk and a slight shift of the roadway to the south. The intersection of 53rd and Hydraulic can get
very backed up during the school rush, with only two lanes and a four-way stop. I saw mention on Sheet #21 of a "traffic signal vault" at that intersection; do you know if that means they're planning to install a stoplight or just planning ahead?
They are actually four-laning 53rd Street (currently just two lanes) between Hydraulic and I-135, and widening it to a three-lane curb-and-gutter section (with TWLTL) east of Hydraulic. This should result in some queue reduction, though I find that even arterials with a minimum of four through lanes each get a bit overloaded at letting-out time in the vicinity of the USD 259 high schools.
It also looks like they are shifting Hydraulic a bit more to the east. It seems that the section line generally sits on the west edge of its ROW, which kind of surprises me, since I would have expected its centerline to overlap the section line.
The traffic signal vault you see called out on Sheet 21 is shown in gray, which usually signifies an existing feature. I think it might have been installed in the past in anticipation of flashers rather than a full-blown traffic signal. Notwithstanding the proximity of Heights, I tend to think traffic flows at this intersection favor a roundabout rather than a traffic signal.
I must be reading the sheet wrong, then. The way I'm looking at it, the roadway width is 22 feet between John Deere and Hydraulic, which is not nearly enough for four lanes. Please correct me where I'm wrong in looking at it, because this is not my "thing".
I've long thought about a roundabout at this location but, because of the school, there is a LOT more straight-through traffic than any other movement at peak times of day. A simple two-way stop might actually function pretty well.
And, yes, I forgot that there was existing electrification for flashing stop beacons.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2016, 12:34:21 PMI must be reading the sheet wrong, then. The way I'm looking at it, the roadway width is 22 feet between John Deere and Hydraulic, which is not nearly enough for four lanes. Please correct me where I'm wrong in looking at it, because this is not my "thing".
The 22 ft measurement you are seeing applies to both sides of the baseline, which here is effectively the centerline of the pavement, so the total with is 44 ft, which is adequate for four lanes with an unit lane width of 11 ft. East of Hydraulic, it goes to 17 ft on either side of the baseline, which amounts to a total width of 34 ft that I think is distributed as 11 ft for each of the two through lanes and 12 ft for the TWLTL.
There is typically a lot of information on plan and profile sheets, so it is easy to misinterpret detail on cursory examination. I have found two tricks useful for a reality check. The first is to check for hatching (gray in this case) that refers to demolition; for this particular project this corresponds to pretty much all of existing 53rd Street from the start of the current four-lane section eastward. Since they are converting it from open to closed drainage as well as widening it, they have to rip up pretty much all of the existing pavement in order to install storm drains and grade out the existing side ditches. The hatching is noticeably narrower than the proposed improvement as shown on the plan sheets and this in turn is a cue that widening is going on, with a possible net gain in lane count.
The second trick is to compare the plan sheets with the striping plans, which show clearly the number of lanes that are supposed to be painted on the finished pavement. In this plans set, however, they can be kind of hard to interpret because the construction baselines are shown in a heavy stroke that tends to obscure the lighter strokes used for the actual markings.
I've broken my long silence.... :)
Are they going to add signals to the 53rd and I-135 ramp intersections?
ICTRds
The plan sheet didn't have anything in there about signals at all, so I'm assuming not. I'm kind of on the fence about signals at that location, personally. One thing my boss pointed out when he saw the plan sheet is that they're apparently changing 53rd/Hydraulic to a two-way stop instead of a four-way stop, but the stop signs are facing 53rd Street traffic. That's weird, since 53rd is by far the busier road.
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2016, 01:49:23 PMOne thing my boss pointed out when he saw the plan sheet is that they're apparently changing 53rd/Hydraulic to a two-way stop instead of a four-way stop, but the stop signs are facing 53rd Street traffic. That's weird, since 53rd is by far the busier road.
It is still going to be a four-way stop. I think your boss missed the (really small) "ALL WAY" plaques under the 53rd Street stop signs, and the Hydraulic stop signs (also with "ALL WAY" plaques) are on a separate sheet.
Gotcha. Thanks for pointing that out. It was making no sense to us why they would have done it that way.
Here we are 27 moths after Woodlawn was first closed north of 37th Street, and the project is still far from done. But now it turns out that the new road is already failing, and an investigation has been called for.
Quote from: The Bel Aire Breeze, Vol. 16, No. 7 — July 2021
Woodlawn expansion project continues
The Bel Aire City Council unanimously approved an amendment to the city's contract with Garver for oversight of utility relocations on Woodlawn between 37th and 45th North on June 15. These utility relocations are a precursor for the Woodlawn reconstruction project.
Garver has worked on the project from the beginning but the original schedule only included 60 working days. Contractors originally renegotiated the work days up to 75 after realizing the project wouldn't be completed in 60 days. City engineer Anne Stephens said that adjustment was made because it was requested by multiple contractors. She said an increase in work days likely wouldn't have been approved if only one contractor requested it.
An additional 15 days have been requested after the city recently added some manhole rehabilitations to the job, raising the number of allowable work days to 90. Stephens said Garver's construction observation has saved the city money in multiple instances. For example, Garver recommended that the rehabilitations be included in the manhole relining project. This would have cost the city more to come back and do later. Stephens said doing the rehabilitations later would have also created an opportunity for groundwater to leak into the sanitary sewer system, which would cost the city even more.
The contract amendment is for $29,073. The city did not clarify whether that cost covers the most recent addition of 15 days or the total addition of 30 days. It was also not stated what the original 60-day contract amount with Garver was. The utility relocations will be completed in early July.
Quote from: The Bel Aire Breeze, Vol. 18, No. 10 — October 2023
'Failed Road'
Woodlawn expected to be operational by end of month
The Bel Aire City Council on Sept. 19 unanimously approved a supplemental agreement with Garver for additional engineering services on the Woodlawn reconstruction project because the work has gone beyond its original completion date.
The agreement was for up to $125,464.95. Pat Herman of Garver said another supplemental agreement will be needed if the project isn't completed by Oct. 12.
"In our mind, this is just a failed road," said Mayor Jim Benage. "I don't know why that is. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that—but it is a failure. We're being asked to pay more money for a defective product. I understand that's not Garver. Overall, something happened. We don't know what that is, but we're going to find out."
The city recently discovered that the east side of newly built portions of Woodlawn is not holding up. There has not been enough traffic on the west side of the road to determine if the same problem exists there. The city council asked for both sides to be inspected.
"We're not sure if it's the sub-grade or the base," said City Manager Ty Lasher. "So they're going to drill some holes and go down 20 feet and figure out what's going on in the base. Is there ground water? Is there something else wrong? They lowered that road three feet. Maybe the asphalt is just failing. We don't know. The trouble is that Garver did all the inspections, and everything they were doing met the requirements. But yet, we've got a road that's failing."
During a special meeting Sept. 12 the city council considered a stop order for the Woodlawn project. This would have immediately halted the entire project, but the council voted unanimously against that measure.
"After looking at the pros and cons and talking with KDOT and the contractor, the decision was made to just finish the project," said Lasher. "Don't stop it because that could cause a number of issues. Let's cut out whatever we can and still be able to meet the federal guidlines for our grant. Put the last two inches on and leave. Hopefully, KDOT and the feds will be fine with it. That way the road is open and people can drive on it. And that gives us time to figure out what happened."
By stopping early or failing to meet the federal guidelines, the city could potentially lose its federal funding for the project. One of those guidelines includes oversight from an engineer with specific certifications. In 2021, the city's portion of the project was estimated at $4.3 million with KDOT contributing another $5.5 million.
Bel Aire staff recruited Burns & McDonnell to perform a study of the construction and engineering processes for the Woodlawn project in an attempt to determine why the road is failing and who is responsible. Lasher said there could be an opportunity for the city to recoup costs if liability is identified. The city has been working with Burns & McDonnell on audits of the Chisholm Creek Utility Authority. The contract to look at the Woodlawn project has not yet come before council. Lasher said that will happen at a later date.
Council member Justin Smith expressed displeasure with a KDOT decision that was made months ago to grant an additional 57 working days for the project. Lasher said the contractor actually requested more than 100 additional days before being granted 57. Smith said he has seen no justification for the additional working days and said he has noticed inactivity and a lack of progress. City attorney Maria Schrock said there is a process to appeal the addition of working days, but the time period for that appeal has already passed. Smith expressed skepticism about whether using federal assistance has actually saved Bel Aire taxpayers money on this project.
The city's consideration of the stop order prompted the contractor to present an accelerated schedule for the project. There is hope that the remaining asphalt, striping and roadside improvements can be completed by Oct. 12. Lasher said he believes the contractor is motivated to meet that timeline and move on to other projects. City engineer Anne Stephens said October is also typically the last month of the year that asphalt can be laid.
"This is a horrible fiasco," said council member John Welch. "It's kind of like when you go to the hospital and you have no control over what they're doing to you. And then you end up with a $2 million bill. That's where we're at. And they may not even have helped you. You may die while you're there. I think some people would think our road is dead."
Quote from: kphoger on October 09, 2023, 06:36:50 PMHere we are 27 months after Woodlawn was first closed north of 37th Street, and the project is still far from done. But now it turns out that the new road is already failing, and an investigation has been called for.
Yesterday the City of Bel Aire posted an update on this debacle to Facebook. (https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=723914816435719&set=a.224635419696997)
I have yet to see a clear explanation of why the geotechnical investigations now being conducted weren't performed
before starting work on the project. I tend to doubt we will. Intuition tells me there is a cost/risk tradeoff whose parameters require a degree of technical knowledge to parse, as well as the element of personal embarrassment to those who are licensed, and paid, to have the answers.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 15, 2023, 06:50:51 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 09, 2023, 06:36:50 PMHere we are 27 months after Woodlawn was first closed north of 37th Street, and the project is still far from done. But now it turns out that the new road is already failing, and an investigation has been called for.
Yesterday the City of Bel Aire posted an update on this debacle to Facebook. (https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=723914816435719&set=a.224635419696997)
I have yet to see a clear explanation of why the geotechnical investigations now being conducted weren't performed before starting work on the project. I tend to doubt we will. Intuition tells me there is a cost/risk tradeoff whose parameters require a degree of technical knowledge to parse, as well as the element of personal embarrassment to those who are licensed, and paid, to have the answers.
Their approach seems to take the same way as their native son, Tyler Hoover. (Hoovie's Garage) Buy the the car and find out what is wrong after.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 15, 2023, 06:50:51 PM
I have yet to see a clear explanation of why the geotechnical investigations now being conducted weren't performed before starting work on the project.
So, when the City Manager stated, "Garver did all the inspections, and everything they were doing met the requirements", did those requirements not include it?
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2023, 01:13:02 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on November 15, 2023, 06:50:51 PMI have yet to see a clear explanation of why the geotechnical investigations now being conducted weren't performed before starting work on the project.
So, when the City Manager stated, "Garver did all the inspections, and everything they were doing met the requirements", did those requirements not include it?
It sounds to me like Garver was engaged to perform construction inspection, while the geotechnical factfinding that Burns & McDonnell are now performing should have happened during the design phase. Subgrade bearing capacity is probably the most important parameter in pavement design, and the document distribution for a project often includes a geotechnical report that summarizes the results of test borings and makes recommendations accordingly, such as digging out peat or high-organic-content muck and replacing it with imported material that is more dimensionally stable. MKEC, another consultant, is involved in some capacity, but I don't know if that means they produced the plans set.
It would help to have the plans and specs for this project to establish context. However, although KDOT is apparently involved in some capacity (probably because this is an N or U jurisdiction project), I don't think it was processed through the KDOT lettings. I don't know how Bel Aire does things, but with Wichita there is no availability in arrears: plans and specs are hosted online (https://customer.e-arc.com/arcEOC/PWELL_PublicList.asp?mem=170) by a blueprint company and disappear almost the instant bids are opened.
Quote from: edwaleni on November 15, 2023, 10:16:16 PMTheir approach seems to take the same way as their native son, Tyler Hoover. (Hoovie's Garage) Buy the the car and find out what is wrong after.
I hadn't actually known he was local to us! That was my new thing learned for the day yesterday.
I did a little more digging, and it turns out I erred in supposing this project was not processed through the KDOT lettings. In fact, KDOT let the project in September 2021 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=15260.msg2652308#msg2652308) as 87 N-0678-01.
Specs (https://kdotapp.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/521092575.pdf)
Plans (https://kdotapp.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/521092575p.pdf)
MKEC did indeed produce the plans set. The typical cross-section sheets call for seven inches of hot-mix asphalt on top of eight inches of aggregate base.
There is additional information on the project on KDOT's Exploratory and Project Reports site (https://kdotapp.ksdot.gov/ProjectLetting/ProjectLetting/ProjectSearch) (have to create a login to access), including the environmental packet (basically the permit package), the original plans set, and six revisions. I took a quick look at the latter and none of them addresses changes to the pavement structure--they're mostly minor revisions to the striping and traffic control. Perhaps more telling is what is not there: no geotechnical report.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2023, 02:47:52 PM
[
Quote from: edwaleni on November 15, 2023, 10:16:16 PMTheir approach seems to take the same way as their native son, Tyler Hoover. (Hoovie's Garage) Buy the the car and find out what is wrong after.
I hadn't actually known he was local to us! That was my new thing learned for the day yesterday.
Actually there is an entire mafia of You Tube "creators" from Wichita.
The most popular is Tyler Hoover and "Hoovie's Garage". He just bought an old farm outside of town and is building a bigger garage to store his collection. Due to his recent divorce he had to dump his house on the east side of town and is living in his dads airport hangar out at Stearman Airport. The local Chevy dealer just paid him $1 million plus for a ton of his cars. The biggest ones he auctioned off on Barratt-Jackson. (and met his current new squeeze) He just started a new channel called "Good Morning You Tube" with same squeeze who moved to Kansas to be with him.
"WatchJRGo" is John Ross Lumbert. He lives in Andover and used to run his channel out of his garage. Was fired from his regular job for messing with You Tube too much, he went full time. He subsequently used his You Tube wealth during covid to buy a commercial building in Derby. Plunked a ton of cash into fixing it up and then flipped it. He was searching for a new base away from the city for awhile and couldn't get a bank to finance him rationally. So he has been grifting off his friends auto shops and fixing up old lake cabins with his brother in law until he can get his latest acquisition into shape for more car stuff (I assume). Has done more advertising promoting O'Reilly Auto Parts in his videos, they should be giving him a frequent customer award.
"Elliott Alvis" who calls himself the "motor'y notary" has a less frequent channel that covers the travails of his Volvo V70R that he beat Tyler Hoover too. He occasionally shows up in Tylers other cars or flys out to car shows to look at someone elses cars or rent rare ones. He works at an electronics manufacturer there in Wichita.
"100 Percent Jake" runs a somewhat more obtuse channel about fixing old Buicks, and other random cars. Content is infrequent and I heard Tyler Hoover has hired him to help with his channels.
"Euroasian Bob" is a used car dealer in the old part of Wichita. Has a junkyard in the back and seems to turn up at the same auctions as Tyler Hoover. The Car Wizard (noted below) seems to buy a lot of old cars from him.
The rest are sort of aligned with or associate with the others.
The "Car Wizard" up at Omega Auto Works in Newton, KS has been enriched by Tyler's wealth by fixing all of the clunkers (mostly broken exotics) that he brings up to him. Ever since Tyler started featuring the "wizard" his channel has taken off.
The "Car Ninja" runs a German car repair shop (German Motor Werks) in Wichita over by Beech Field and Tyler brings all of his broken BMW's to him to fix, of which many of them are hopeless. He seems to do pretty well living off Hoovie's weakness for run down BMW's. WatchJRGo seems to pawn off of him alot to mount tires, get ancient Bosch injectors working etc. since his home garage can't do it.
They all kind of self-promote each other, some more than others. Some do their channels full time, some part-time, or others "when they can" time.
Honestly they were kind of interesting but it reaches a point where every car is a "dream car". Every project is a "dream project". Where just buying a used plain Ford F-250 or going to CarMax for a quote is turned into some kind of spiritual experience. Where the term "I have always wanted one of these" really means "I have really wanted to see how much money I can make off of these".
After You Tube cut their rates, some of these guys went into a semi-panic, started renting cars on Turo etc to keep their dream alive. They basically use YT dollars to consume cars as a hobby and then dump them when the fascination wears off.
Their watch ratings have been declining pretty regularly since covid ended and their monthly ad income (from YT) declining.
The problem with most YT channels is that it stops being about a certain subject and it transitions into being about the person doing the talking. Seeing themselves too much on the editing screen tends to do that.