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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: TravelingBethelite on November 13, 2015, 08:04:33 PM

Title: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: TravelingBethelite on November 13, 2015, 08:04:33 PM
No words. Just shock.  :-(

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-terror-attacks/french-police-report-paris-shootout-explosion-n463186 (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/paris-terror-attacks/french-police-report-paris-shootout-explosion-n463186)
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: xcellntbuy on November 13, 2015, 09:11:57 PM
Our good friends in France will undoubtedly respond in some fashion.  Former French President Jacques Chirac's foreign policy was made clear in 2006, but he left office in May 2007.  President Hollande will have to make an agonizing decision on how he plans to defend his country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/19/AR2006011903311.html
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: Zeffy on November 13, 2015, 09:54:09 PM
A current death toll of 153... it's sickening. Words cannot describe the sheer audacity of these attacks, coordinated to harm the lives of innocent people trying to enjoy a Friday's night out, attacks that took advantage of poor security and left hundreds dead with the attackers executing random civilians at will while feeling no remorse. Tonight, I give my condolences to the victims and their families.

The world is at a standstill. Intervention is needed to prevent tragedies like this from happening again. The only way to do that is to attack the source. I don't like war, but what else is left when more of these disgusting acts of violence committed under the guise of "religion" are happening each month, with the perpetrators originating from the same places each time?
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: jakeroot on November 13, 2015, 10:22:12 PM
Quote from: xcellntbuy on November 13, 2015, 09:11:57 PM
President Hollande will have to make an agonizing decision on how he plans to defend his country.

In the mean time, he's shut the borders. Which seems like a total 180 in terms of policy, since the Hollande government has been very pro-immigration as of late.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: xcellntbuy on November 13, 2015, 10:24:18 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 13, 2015, 10:22:12 PM
Quote from: xcellntbuy on November 13, 2015, 09:11:57 PM
President Hollande will have to make an agonizing decision on how he plans to defend his country.

In the mean time, he's shut the borders. Which seems like a total 180 in terms of policy, since the Hollande government has been very pro-immigration as of late.
Yes indeed and imposed martial law in France for the first time since the liberation from the Nazis in 1944. 
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: Buffaboy on November 13, 2015, 10:38:48 PM
I actually first heard about this when it wasn't a full blown attack yet at around 3:45 (via another forum/BBC). I thought there were like 4 or 5 people killed how it was described.

I go to CNN about a half hour ago and see over 150+ people are gone. Unbelievable, like 9/11.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: US 41 on November 13, 2015, 10:48:44 PM
Open borders in the EU needs to end immediately. Allowing hundreds of thousands of undocumented people from Syria into Europe was a horrible decision. It only took 5 bad people to cause this. Think of how many other bad people have already entered in the Schengen Area because of European nations not defending their borders. What is sovereignty if you can't even control your own borders? What happened was terrible, but even I was smart enough to see this coming if Europe didn't control their borders. Turns out Hungary was right after all. Now it appears that Slovenia, Austria, and France are following Hungary's lead.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 13, 2015, 11:09:18 PM
Way too early to make a statement like that.  Just as likely to be homegrown.  It usually is in Europe.  Foreigners do not commit these acts in Europe; by in large it is people who have been living there most of their lives and they are radicalized in place.

I will eat my hat if it turns out to be recent refugees or immigrants.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: english si on November 14, 2015, 08:26:59 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 13, 2015, 11:09:18 PMWay too early to make a statement like that.  Just as likely to be homegrown.
The January attacks were home-grown, though affiliated with Yemeni Al Qa'ida. I'd say it's more likely to be home-grown than not (though, actually, so do you) - for a start, it looks like they knew the city well enough to know where there's some serious soft targets (cf the 7/7 bombers, who thankfully didn't know what trains out of Kings Cross St Pancras had most potential for destruction).
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: bing101 on November 14, 2015, 07:57:05 PM
Damn 150 People dead? RIP all the victims.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: bing101 on November 14, 2015, 07:58:27 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/14/world/paris-attacks/


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34823938




Apparently ISIS did this latest French attack.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: Duke87 on November 15, 2015, 12:35:02 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on November 13, 2015, 10:38:48 PM
I actually first heard about this when it wasn't a full blown attack yet at around 3:45 (via another forum/BBC). I thought there were like 4 or 5 people killed how it was described.

Yeah, I first heard about it from my girlfriend when she came by to pick me up after work. She was like "Oh, did you hear? There was a terrorist attack in Paris, a bunch of people got shot", and my initial impression was along those same lines. That it was some suicidal nut with a gun acting alone and that people were being all melodramatic calling it terrorism. Then I looked it up on my phone and saw that it was actually a serious huge thing.

It's an uncanny aspect of human psychology that we tend to react with disbelief to any major out of the ordinary occurrence and assume it must be somehow hyped or exaggerated. On 9/11/01 the initial word going around was that a small plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. And, if you watch the original CNN broadcast, for several minutes after the first tower collapses the news anchors keep replaying the footage confused, not sure what just happened.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: bing101 on November 15, 2015, 11:57:27 AM
http://ktla.com/2015/11/14/cal-state-long-beach-student-23-among-those-killed-in-paris-attacks/


One of the victims has been identified as a Cal State Long Beach student. But numbers of deaths has been changed to 128? Note all death numbers will change as investigations continues.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: jakeroot on November 15, 2015, 12:10:21 PM
Looks like one of the attackers posed as a Syrian refugee:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/15/world/paris-attacks/index.html
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: SignGeek101 on November 15, 2015, 02:05:12 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 15, 2015, 12:10:21 PM
Looks like one of the attackers posed as a Syrian refugee:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/15/world/paris-attacks/index.html

I don't know if anyone knows this, but Canada wants to take in 25 000 refugees by the end of the year from Syria alone. That could be a security issue for Canada and the US.

They're going to have to be very careful and perhaps a little paranoid about that process. It just takes one bad apple in 25 000 ones to cause trouble.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: roadman65 on November 15, 2015, 02:23:28 PM
That won't stop one particular member of our government.  He will continue to let them in regardless of threat they pose on us.   Remember, one man in DC says just a few days ago, we have ISIS under control and that they pose no danger anymore like they once did.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: hotdogPi on November 15, 2015, 03:17:52 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 15, 2015, 02:23:28 PM
That won't stop one particular member of our government.  He will continue to let them in regardless of threat they pose on us.   Remember, one man in DC says just a few days ago, we have ISIS under control and that they pose no danger anymore like they once did.

I don't know who you're referring to. It could be any of over 550 people.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: roadman65 on November 15, 2015, 03:46:03 PM
That is true, it could be any or all of 550 in DC.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: AlexandriaVA on November 15, 2015, 04:03:15 PM
If only fatal automobile accidents got as much press coverage as terrorist attacks.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: Brandon on November 15, 2015, 04:12:07 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on November 15, 2015, 04:03:15 PM
If only fatal automobile accidents got as much press coverage as terrorist attacks.

If they're big enough, they do.  But, let's be honest, usually only one dies at a time in such things.  Not quite as newsworthy as a bunch of terrorists doing a drive-by shooting in a major city, blowing themselves up at outside a soccer stadium, and holding hostages at a concert while shooting the place up and killing over 80 there.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: Pete from Boston on November 15, 2015, 04:22:35 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on November 15, 2015, 04:03:15 PM
If only fatal automobile accidents got as much press coverage as terrorist attacks.

I'm not sure I see your point.  Was your response to 9/11, "But so many more people die from smoking..."?
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: jakeroot on November 15, 2015, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 15, 2015, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on November 15, 2015, 04:03:15 PM
If only fatal automobile accidents got as much press coverage as terrorist attacks.

I'm not sure I see your point.  Was your response to 9/11, "But so many more people die from smoking..."?

His point is that (apparently) the sheer number of dead is not as important as the means in which they die.

Boston Bombing for example.  More people died last night in Chicago but it's obvious which one will get/had more coverage.

I don't necessarily agree with this viewpoint, but I understand the origin of the opinion.
Title: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: Pete from Boston on November 15, 2015, 05:39:42 PM
We've come to understand auto crashes and street crime as accepted risks for certain activities. 

No one expects to be shot up at a rock show, watching a road race, or just showing up at the office.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 15, 2015, 09:26:50 PM
And so the perpetual cycle of terrorism and war begins anew.

I'm getting pretty sick of this movie.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: Pete from Boston on November 16, 2015, 04:13:55 PM
Let us also please note that the day before the horrible attacks in France were the horrible attacks in Beirut that killed dozens, with countless more saved by one citizen who gave his life by diving onto one of the bombers.  There seems to be an air of "those people in Beirut are used to it," but I know many wonderful people from that city and they are not, and they deserve their flag up on Facebook and world landmarks also.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: english si on November 17, 2015, 08:57:28 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 15, 2015, 12:10:21 PM
Looks like one of the attackers posed as a Syrian refugee:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/15/world/paris-attacks/index.html
All the passports are thought to be forgeries. Serbian authorities arrested someone since the attack with the same Syrian passport that that article mentioned.

Posing as a Syrian refugee, when you are an EU citizen (all the perps currently identified were French or Belgian citizens and almost all born there), isn't going to help you get through borders that you can get through anyway. Posing as a Syrian refugee when you are massacring people is a good way for ISIS to get the European borders closed and stop those in the Fertile Crescent that it wishes to eradicate (Kurds, Christians, 'apostate' Muslims that won't join in their Caliphate, Druze, etc) from successfully fleeing to safety (even if, in ISIS's view, it is safety for a limited time).

What makes this attack more newsworthy than Beirut in the West is that it is not done by Iraqi/Syrian IS people 'over there', but done by French/Belgian people over here. I agree that the solidarity hype is excessive, especially given we even didn't do it for Madrid's more murderous attack by Al Qa'ida, let alone the Russian passenger jet shot down by ISIS (or the Malaysian passenger jet shot down by Russians) or stuff in Lebanon, India, Kenya, Nigeria, etc.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: vdeane on November 17, 2015, 12:47:09 PM
It also helps ISIS in the propaganda wars by cementing their portrayal of the west as anti-Muslim.  This makes people in the middle east more sympathetic to their cause.
Title: Re: Horrible attacks in France
Post by: bing101 on November 17, 2015, 03:28:22 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/world/paris-attacks-syrian-refugees-backlash/

Well now some state governors and state congress may will have to go back to the negotiating table with Homeland Security into this issue over how they will handle the refugee issue from Syria are now at play.