AARoads Forum

USA... (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/MUTCD_R2-1.svg/200px-MUTCD_R2-1.svg.png)

Canada... (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Ontario_Rb-1A.svg) or (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Qu%C3%A9bec_P-070-2-50.svg)

Australia..(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Australia_road_sign_R4-1_%2860%29.svg)

Europe... (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Zeichen_274-56.svg) or (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Sweden_road_sign_C31-3.svg)

The Oregon SPEED sign

I think we're going to have a clear winner here  :nod:

For me, it would be Canada's or Europe (white background), though I'm sure my opinion, like everyone else's opinion on here is biased towards their own country, hence my point above.

I've always been a fan of recognizably. Although I like the use of Series E in speed limit signs (US design), I don't like the word "SPEED LIMIT'. I also don't like the yellow background sign, because it could (possibly) be confused for a warning sign (or ramp, exit etc) sign. I think Australia's just has too much white space on it.

Also, the images are a bit large, I'd reduce the size if possible.

I like Canada's speed limit sign, or if America used 'Maximum Speed' as used on certain California freeways rather than 'Speed limit'

Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 25, 2015, 10:11:45 PM
I think we're going to have a clear winner here  :nod:

Hey look, 'Murica's in the lead. Who'd have guessed? :-D

I voted for Australia, because I prefer the Vienna design but I like a background.

Write in:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Zeichen_282.svg/240px-Zeichen_282.svg.png)

I feel like this will be one of those things where everybody thinks their particular jurisdiction's sign is best.  :awesomeface:

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 25, 2015, 11:47:07 PM
I feel like this will be one of those things where everybody thinks their particular jurisdiction's sign is best.  :awesomeface:

My thoughts exactly.

Quote from: NJ on November 25, 2015, 10:24:04 PM
I like Canada's speed limit sign, or if America used 'Maximum Speed' as used on certain California freeways rather than 'Speed limit'

Maybe just because it's late and I'm tired, but I don't get it...how's "Maximum Speed" any different or better than "Speed Limit"? Not that most people are concerned with the text (and others arguably not concerned with the posted number), but the latter message is shorter, with better distance legibility. IMO, saying "Maximum Speed" just sounds like you're trying to impress somebody.

I like the idea of just posting the number, but as it's been brought up in other topics, the number needs a context, since it could be confused with some route marker signs. I don't see the US ever deviating from the current Speed Limit sign.

Quote from: corco on November 25, 2015, 10:09:02 PM
The Oregon SPEED sign

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!  I think we have a winner!  I'm from California but I do love seeing the Oregon "SPEED" signs simply because they are unique and I kind of like the large numerals.

Quote from: NJ on November 25, 2015, 10:24:04 PM
I like Canada's speed limit sign, or if America used 'Maximum Speed' as used on certain California freeways rather than 'Speed limit'

The MAXIMUM SPEED signs are just about extinct on California's freeways due to old age.  Some were patched when the NMSL was abolished but most of them were replaced.

My first choice would obviously be our "SPEED LIMIT" sign although the Canadian "MAXIMUM" would be a suitable alternative.  The euro ones with a number in a red circle look too much like a route shield.

Quote from: corco on November 25, 2015, 10:09:02 PM
The Oregon SPEED sign

Definitely my favourite, and not just because I'm from Oregon. Way easier to see larger numerals that aren't Series E or E(M).

Quote from: corco on November 25, 2015, 10:09:02 PM
The Oregon SPEED sign

Just checked it out, not a fan of it. "Speed" - Speed what? Maximum as Canada's is better and makes more sense. Some may understand "Speed" as you must speed to that mile.

A late entry....from Connecticut in the 50s-60s
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2FConnecticut%2520Signs%2Fstcs45l.jpg&hash=b405c1423acdd6f1eac4bbf4662b8d448b90aa59)

I like Canada's 'Maximum' speed sign the best, although I'd add "Conditions Permitting" if we were to adopt it in the US.

I like Canada's "Maximum" ones the best as they're easily understood in English, French, and Spanish (same word).  They also flow nicely with minimum speed limits where "Minimum" is put on the sign.  personally, I'd like to see black-on-yellow limit signage for cars on freeways as a suggested speed limit (advisory signage).

Quote from: ctsignguy on November 27, 2015, 08:14:59 AM
A late entry....from Connecticut in the 50s-60s
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2FConnecticut%2520Signs%2Fstcs45l.jpg&hash=b405c1423acdd6f1eac4bbf4662b8d448b90aa59)

I guess that explains why I saw speed limit signs in a drawing in a textbook that went like:

SPEED
  35
LIMIT

Of course, that was also back when I was in elementary school, I think my 4th Grade year as well.

^Similar to that, Oregon used to have a design, I believe from the '60s and earlier, that used the verbiage "Speed XX Miles".  I don't know the exact date that "Miles" was excluded, but I'd guess that it was likely in the '70s.

Sadly, the current "Speed XX" design seems to be getting phased out here.  There's been quite a few "Speed Limit XX" installations going in across the state.  The current sign policy, apparently, is to use the "Speed Limit XX" verbiage for anything within the city limits that isn't a statutory 55 zone, and, of course, interstates.  ODOT Region 2 did actually post a few new "Speed XX" signs as part of a recent sign replacement project on OR-99W, near Rickreall (which is an unincorporated area and thus has no city limits), though Region 4 did post quite a few "Speed Limit XX" signs on OR-97 through Chemult and Gilchrist, which also aren't incorporated.

Not that any of these are my favorite, but what about the Ohio freeway speed limit signs which were in place from the time the nationwide 55 speed limit was abolished until cars & trucks could both to the same speed: 


(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.state.oh.us%2Fnews%2FPublishingImages%2FSpeedsign.gif&hash=ef82c16b5689caf3ea21622657d9855c87a9ad8e)


Or the New York speed limit sign family:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clrp.cornell.edu%2Fimages%2Fqa%2F038-nyr2-x.jpg&hash=ecddf1a966eb1ec02b3a3f67cd7bb868aff8c6d5)


Or the infamous Reasonable & Prudent speed limit signs which once graced Montana highways:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa0%2FMONTANA-PR.svg%2F500px-MONTANA-PR.svg.png&hash=ecbfcb4888bceee35c7ca22c4b5d311eb0e949b8)

Quote from: thenetwork on November 28, 2015, 02:07:44 AM
Or the New York speed limit sign family:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clrp.cornell.edu%2Fimages%2Fqa%2F038-nyr2-x.jpg&hash=ecddf1a966eb1ec02b3a3f67cd7bb868aff8c6d5)

Yuck... Too much text when we try to limit as much possible. NY state has horrible speed limit signs.

The idea behind those signs is that you don't have to post as many of them.  For example, a village needs only post "Village Speed Limit 30" at the entrances to the villages and then does not need to post a speed limit sign on any other road.  This is not just saving on signage, either; per NY state law, all roads in the state have a speed limit of 55 unless in a municipality or area with a lower blanket limit or NYSDOT does a speed study supporting another limit (and yes, it HAS to be NYSDOT, even for local roads nowhere near the state system).  In many states, a politician can pull a number out of his rear and set the speed limit on a certain road to be that number.  In NY, the only person with that power is Cuomo (though the segments at 65 were legislatively defined for a time; thankfully, they are no longer, aside from a prohibition on posting 65 downstate).

You realize lawmakers more or less set the speed limits in Oregon, right? "Speed limit 55 everywhere off the interstate" is not "well-engineered"

Oregon drivers don't pay attention to anything because what is posted is often retarded, which makes driving more dangerous.

I like Australia's, since the circled number is immediately recognizable internationally, while the shape and white space would make it clear to North American drivers that it's not a route shield, with the added bonus of being similar to current speed limit signs.

This idea could work for big cities just like it is used in New York City, but not in smaller towns. Signages are important; no need to save on infrastructure. Some people may forget speed limits as well.

Quote from: vdeane on November 28, 2015, 03:52:34 PM
The idea behind those signs is that you don't have to post as many of them.  For example, a village needs only post "Village Speed Limit 30" at the entrances to the villages and then does not need to post a speed limit sign on any other road.  This is not just saving on signage, either; per NY state law, all roads in the state have a speed limit of 55 unless in a municipality or area with a lower blanket limit or NYSDOT does a speed study supporting another limit (and yes, it HAS to be NYSDOT, even for local roads nowhere near the state system).  In many states, a politician can pull a number out of his rear and set the speed limit on a certain road to be that number.  In NY, the only person with that power is Cuomo (though the segments at 65 were legislatively defined for a time; thankfully, they are no longer, aside from a prohibition on posting 65 downstate).

Quote from: NJ on November 28, 2015, 06:39:23 PM
This idea could work for big cities just like it is used in New York City, but not in smaller towns. Signages are important; no need to save on infrastructure. Some people may forget speed limits as well.

Quote from: vdeane on November 28, 2015, 03:52:34 PM
The idea behind those signs is that you don't have to post as many of them.  For example, a village needs only post "Village Speed Limit 30" at the entrances to the villages and then does not need to post a speed limit sign on any other road.  This is not just saving on signage, either; per NY state law, all roads in the state have a speed limit of 55 unless in a municipality or area with a lower blanket limit or NYSDOT does a speed study supporting another limit (and yes, it HAS to be NYSDOT, even for local roads nowhere near the state system).  In many states, a politician can pull a number out of his rear and set the speed limit on a certain road to be that number.  In NY, the only person with that power is Cuomo (though the segments at 65 were legislatively defined for a time; thankfully, they are no longer, aside from a prohibition on posting 65 downstate).

It works pretty well.  We tend not to have much speed variation here; almost all cities and most villages are 30, for example, and many of the smaller ones are so small you don't have a chance to forget the limit.  Also, almost all (if not all) roads within a city/village tend to have the same speed limit because nobody wants to pay NYSDOT to do a study without a very good reason.  It's not like other states where nearly every road in town has a different limit.

As a British traffic signs designer you would probably expect me to say I prefer the red disc.

However, I would personally say the US version is at least blatantly obvious as to what it is telling you. I don't like Australia's backing board but from memory this is used because previously the signs were the US style and changed when they went metric. Keeping the same dimensions presumably allowed early signs to be repainted.

Quote from: NJ on November 28, 2015, 03:05:17 PM

Quote from: thenetwork on November 28, 2015, 02:07:44 AM
Or the New York speed limit sign family:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clrp.cornell.edu%2Fimages%2Fqa%2F038-nyr2-x.jpg&hash=ecddf1a966eb1ec02b3a3f67cd7bb868aff8c6d5)

Yuck... Too much text when we try to limit as much possible. NY state has horrible speed limit signs.

The only one I really have an issue with here is the last one. Who gives a rip what the speed limit was prior to the sign? That's useless. What's the speed limit now?

Quote from: Eth on November 29, 2015, 05:14:23 PM

Quote from: NJ on November 28, 2015, 03:05:17 PM

Quote from: thenetwork on November 28, 2015, 02:07:44 AM
Or the New York speed limit sign family:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clrp.cornell.edu%2Fimages%2Fqa%2F038-nyr2-x.jpg&hash=ecddf1a966eb1ec02b3a3f67cd7bb868aff8c6d5)

Yuck... Too much text when we try to limit as much possible. NY state has horrible speed limit signs.

The only one I really have an issue with here is the last one. Who gives a rip what the speed limit was prior to the sign? That's useless. What's the speed limit now?

The default state limit.

Don't know what it is?  Oh well.  States aren't required to post every single law out there (which would be a series of signs so lengthy that no one would ever read them).  In all but a few cases, the default limit is 55 mph, so you're pretty safe going with that.

Quote from: vdeane on November 28, 2015, 10:54:57 PM

Quote from: NJ on November 28, 2015, 06:39:23 PM
This idea could work for big cities just like it is used in New York City, but not in smaller towns. Signages are important; no need to save on infrastructure. Some people may forget speed limits as well.

Quote from: vdeane on November 28, 2015, 03:52:34 PM
The idea behind those signs is that you don't have to post as many of them.  For example, a village needs only post "Village Speed Limit 30" at the entrances to the villages and then does not need to post a speed limit sign on any other road.  This is not just saving on signage, either; per NY state law, all roads in the state have a speed limit of 55 unless in a municipality or area with a lower blanket limit or NYSDOT does a speed study supporting another limit (and yes, it HAS to be NYSDOT, even for local roads nowhere near the state system).  In many states, a politician can pull a number out of his rear and set the speed limit on a certain road to be that number.  In NY, the only person with that power is Cuomo (though the segments at 65 were legislatively defined for a time; thankfully, they are no longer, aside from a prohibition on posting 65 downstate).

It works pretty well.  We tend not to have much speed variation here; almost all cities and most villages are 30, for example, and many of the smaller ones are so small you don't have a chance to forget the limit.  Also, almost all (if not all) roads within a city/village tend to have the same speed limit because nobody wants to pay NYSDOT to do a study without a very good reason.  It's not like other states where nearly every road in town has a different limit.

It works well for locals, and I completely understand the logic. Using default speed limits isn't exactly friendly for visitors however, unless they're implemented nationally like in the UK.

I like any speed limit sign that lists units (like Canada's Maximum km/h sign), just because there's no ambiguity. One time when crossing back into Washington from British Columbia, on I-5 where the speed limit is 70 mph, I encountered a vehicle with plates from a Canadian province that I believe was going closer to 70 km/h than 70 mph. I flew past them in the left lane and hoped they realized they're now dealing in miles than kilometers.

For the record, for consistency's sake, I'd like the US to transition into metric, but seeing as it's been trying to do so for the past century, it's probably going to take a big push to get it to switch.

When you cross the border into Canada there are signs reminding you that they use metric system, and there speed signs says "Maximum" so it's different than Americas "Speed limit".

I like Canada's speed signs hands down... Very nicely designed

Quote from: Ace10 on November 29, 2015, 05:43:13 PM
I like any speed limit sign that lists units (like Canada's Maximum km/h sign), just because there's no ambiguity. One time when crossing back into Washington from British Columbia, on I-5 where the speed limit is 70 mph, I encountered a vehicle with plates from a Canadian province that I believe was going closer to 70 km/h than 70 mph. I flew past them in the left lane and hoped they realized they're now dealing in miles than kilometers.

For the record, for consistency's sake, I'd like the US to transition into metric, but seeing as it's been trying to do so for the past century, it's probably going to take a big push to get it to switch.

Quote from: Eth on November 29, 2015, 05:14:23 PM

Quote from: NJ on November 28, 2015, 03:05:17 PM

Quote from: thenetwork on November 28, 2015, 02:07:44 AM
Or the New York speed limit sign family:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clrp.cornell.edu%2Fimages%2Fqa%2F038-nyr2-x.jpg&hash=ecddf1a966eb1ec02b3a3f67cd7bb868aff8c6d5)

Yuck... Too much text when we try to limit as much possible. NY state has horrible speed limit signs.

The only one I really have an issue with here is the last one. Who gives a rip what the speed limit was prior to the sign? That's useless. What's the speed limit now?

Whatever it is for the zone you're in.  The most common example is if you're on a state highway, leaving a hamlet that had an area speed limit of 40 or something, and the speed limit reverts to the state default of 55 (it's 55 if not posted in NY).  However, it can also happen in over zones - for example, a village with a speed limit of 35 (a few do exist) but has a main street with a downtown segment posted at 25; the "end 25 mph limit" sign would signify the return to 35.

Think of speed limits in NY not as lines that correspond to the road (except in the rare case of a limit without one of the zone banners) but as polygons that overlay areas.

Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2015, 06:26:26 PM

Quote from: Eth on November 29, 2015, 05:14:23 PM

Quote from: NJ on November 28, 2015, 03:05:17 PM

Quote from: thenetwork on November 28, 2015, 02:07:44 AM
Or the New York speed limit sign family:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clrp.cornell.edu%2Fimages%2Fqa%2F038-nyr2-x.jpg&hash=ecddf1a966eb1ec02b3a3f67cd7bb868aff8c6d5)

Yuck... Too much text when we try to limit as much possible. NY state has horrible speed limit signs.

The only one I really have an issue with here is the last one. Who gives a rip what the speed limit was prior to the sign? That's useless. What's the speed limit now?

Whatever it is for the zone you're in.  The most common example is if you're on a state highway, leaving a hamlet that had an area speed limit of 40 or something, and the speed limit reverts to the state default of 55 (it's 55 if not posted in NY).  However, it can also happen in over zones - for example, a village with a speed limit of 35 (a few do exist) but has a main street with a downtown segment posted at 25; the "end 25 mph limit" sign would signify the return to 35.

Think of speed limits in NY not as lines that correspond to the road (except in the rare case of a limit without one of the zone banners) but as polygons that overlay areas.

I see how that works; I just don't see the value from a signage perspective. When given the option of posting an "end 25 mph limit" sign and assuming the driver just knows intuitively what it is beyond that point, or posting a (same size and presumably the same cost) sign that actually says what the new limit is, why would you ever choose the former?

Quote from: Eth on November 29, 2015, 10:20:58 PMWhen given the option of posting an "end 25 mph limit" sign and assuming the driver just knows intuitively what it is beyond that point, or posting a (same size and presumably the same cost) sign that actually says what the new limit is, why would you ever choose the former?

I'd almost bet that's one of those things you're "supposed" to know.  The default speed limits in Massachusetts are part of the written (now computerized) exam for a learner's permit, so at least here they do expect you to know them.

Doesn't Oregon also have this weird standard where the distance from a hospital emergency room is a factor in whether a road can be 70 or not?

The story I heard with ODOT was that the roads were supposed to be raised to 70 or 75 with allowances for exceptions where it wasn't safe.  ODOT promptly declared every mile of roadway in the state to be an exception, citing the ER factor as well as the three trailer "road train" trucks allowed in that state.  This is because Kitzhaber was staunchly against raising the limit and the bill allowing the limit to go up was passed by overriding a veto.

Quote from: vdeane on November 30, 2015, 12:47:25 PM
Doesn't Oregon also have this weird standard where the distance from a hospital emergency room is a factor in whether a road can be 70 or not?

I believe that was cited as a reason why limits shouldn't be raised, but it's not a requirement.

It's all moot now- since ODOT didn't do its job, the most recent speed limit bill from this year (HB 3402) specifically calls out which highways should be posted at 65 and 70, so there's no objective criteria, just dictation from the legislature.

Conditions Permitting
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_RGw3-EEOuKs%2FTMg8ss_s8QI%2FAAAAAAAAAAM%2FC2FT4hYV4IE%2Fs1600%2FSpeedLimit.jpg&hash=9c2067001aa2d40030f0531b7369194296cfad95)
Not that it's my favorite, but GSP and some ACE signs in NJ have this either at the top or the bottom

Quote from: bzakharin on November 30, 2015, 03:48:23 PM
Conditions Permitting
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_RGw3-EEOuKs%2FTMg8ss_s8QI%2FAAAAAAAAAAM%2FC2FT4hYV4IE%2Fs1600%2FSpeedLimit.jpg&hash=9c2067001aa2d40030f0531b7369194296cfad95)
Not that it's my favorite, but GSP and some ACE signs in NJ have this either at the top or the bottom

I always wondered what "condition permitted" means ??

It means you shouldn't just blast through at 55 if the road is covered in snow.

Quote from: vdeane on November 30, 2015, 06:15:57 PM
It means you shouldn't just blast through at 55 if the road is covered in snow.

I thought it meant "night condition permitted" meaning you can drive faster at night (when fewer/no cars)  :awesomeface:

It should have said "IF CONDITION PERMITTED"

Quote from: NJ on November 30, 2015, 10:26:59 PM
It should have said "IF CONDITION PERMITTED"

Conditions permitting encompasses everything from inclement weather, to 2 miles of stop-and-go-traffic, to a pack of cows goats crossing the highway...

Okay, maybe not the last one, but conditions permitting is saying "use your best judgement" and don't do 55 when it's incredibly dangerous to do so (like if it's snowing and no one can see in front of them).

Quote from: NJ on November 30, 2015, 10:26:59 PM

Quote from: vdeane on November 30, 2015, 06:15:57 PM
It means you shouldn't just blast through at 55 if the road is covered in snow.

I thought it meant "night condition permitted" meaning you can drive faster at night (when fewer/no cars)  :awesomeface:

Logically that would make no sense, given night speed limits (https://www.google.com/search?q=night+speed+limit&client=ms-android-att-us&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiq2rKA-7nJAhUIYiYKHagtB8EQ_AUIBygB&biw=360&bih=559) are virtually always lower than daytime limits.

Another oldie for the Other category:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FtCvgZ.jpg&hash=940d3f57c1a00c52d10def2869efdac8ec61d229)