FHWA Office of Planning, Environment, & Realty (HEP): Economic Development History of Interstate 68 in Maryland (http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/economic_development/studies/i68md.cfm)
QuoteInterstate 68 (I-68) is a 116-mile, east-west freeway that links the western Maryland panhandle to northeast West Virginia. The eastern end, west of Hancock, MD, is located approximately 90 miles west of Baltimore, 100 miles northwest of Washington, DC, and 150 miles south of Pittsburgh. It is known as "The National Freeway" because its Maryland portion generally follows the route of the Old National Road, an important artery throughout the nineteenth century. I-68 extends from the I-70 junction west of Hancock, MD to the I-79 junction near Morgantown, WV. It connects the Mid-Atlantic region, and particularly the Baltimore- Washington metropolitan areas to the Midwest and West Virginia. I-68 is among the few two-digit Interstates that does not enter a major metropolitan area; the largest city between the endpoints is Cumberland, MD, with a population of only 20,859 residents based on the 2010 U.S. Census. This study concentrates on the 82-mile segment in Maryland.
I always figured that the highway was Byrd-flavored pork.
This may not produce economic development, but when will Interstate 68 in Cumberland be upgraded to Interstate Standards? Its present configuration is quite substandard.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 01, 2015, 04:24:11 PM
This may not produce economic development, but when will Interstate 68 in Cumberland be upgraded to Interstate Standards? Its present configuration is quite substandard.
What's substandard? And also, bear in mind the low usage and the difficult terrain of the corridor.
Narrow viaduct, 40 MPH speed limit, sharp curves along the Potomac River, and some ramps that look kind of goofy. Does that sound Interstate Standard to you?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 01, 2015, 04:45:46 PM
Narrow viaduct
I presume you mean through Cumberland?
Quote40 MPH speed limit
Again, Cumberland. It's a city. They're not going to rip it up to shave 20 seconds off of your trip.
Quotesharp curves along the Potomac River, and some ramps that look kind of goofy. Does that sound Interstate Standard to you?
Again, difficult terrain for a low-volume route. Interstate should have never been built but it's a miracle that it did. Certainly can't justify the massive expense it would take to make those changes.
EDIT: The US-220 ramp is nasty. But what are you going to do? It's a valley. Hills are steep.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 01, 2015, 04:45:46 PM
Narrow viaduct, 40 MPH speed limit, sharp curves along the Potomac River, and some ramps that look kind of goofy. Does that sound Interstate Standard to you?
It was grandfathered in. What are you going to do, sign it as "To I-68" for a very short (~ 1 mile) distance between two lengthy sections of road that are up to modern standards?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on December 01, 2015, 04:24:11 PM
This may not produce economic development, but when will Interstate 68 in Cumberland be upgraded to Interstate Standards? Its present configuration is quite substandard.
I-68 through Cumberland pre-dates I-68 and U.S. 48. It was built as the Cumberland Thruway, effectively a U.S. 40 bypass of the downtown area in the 1960's, and was not designed as an Interstate.
I agree that it is substandard (especially eastbound at the bottom of that long descent from the crest of Savage Mountain), but I am not aware of any
funded plans to rebuild it (expensive and difficult in terms of available space) or bypass it (even more expensive, and could possibly involve tunneling though Haystack Mountain).
SHA has been doing a fair amount of maintenance and rehabilitation work on the viaduct part of the Cumberland Thruway in recent years.
I remember being on a family trip on US 40 and watching the Sideling Hill cut make progress. Sort of miss the tight turn at the side of the ridge, although not the added time to the trip.
My brother and I had pillows that we intended to use as parachutes if our car went off the "edge." There was even a farmstand or something there, so it was just something to make the 20-hour trip from MA to KY go faster (along with an overnight stop in Chambersburg, PA).
Quote from: Rothman on December 05, 2015, 01:33:52 AM
I remember being on a family trip on US 40 and watching the Sideling Hill cut make progress. Sort of miss the tight turn at the side of the ridge, although not the added time to the trip.
My brother and I had pillows that we intended to use as parachutes if our car went off the "edge." There was even a farmstand or something there, so it was just something to make the 20-hour trip from MA to KY go faster (along with an overnight stop in Chambersburg, PA).
I've stayed in multiple long-distance trips in Chambersburg. What is it about that place?
I drove this road in the year or two after it opened, in part due to talk about it on MTR. I got off in Cumberland (really, charming town) but still remember the slow curvy part there. I was not bothered by it. My impression of the Interstate brand was not harmed.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 05, 2015, 02:05:56 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 05, 2015, 01:33:52 AM
I remember being on a family trip on US 40 and watching the Sideling Hill cut make progress. Sort of miss the tight turn at the side of the ridge, although not the added time to the trip.
My brother and I had pillows that we intended to use as parachutes if our car went off the "edge." There was even a farmstand or something there, so it was just something to make the 20-hour trip from MA to KY go faster (along with an overnight stop in Chambersburg, PA).
I've stayed in multiple long-distance trips in Chambersburg. What is it about that place?
I drove this road in the year or two after it opened, in part due to talk about it on MTR. I got off in Cumberland (really, charming town) but still remember the slow curvy part there. I was not bothered by it. My impression of the Interstate brand was not harmed.
If you exited at Cumberland (coming from the east) then you missed the long eastbound descent from the crest of Big Savage Mountain near Finzel (elevation about 2800 feet) to the sharp curve on the Cumberland Thruway (elevation about 600 feet).
That's a lot of descent in 13 miles (and yes, there are some (short) uphill segments too).
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 07, 2015, 01:42:29 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 05, 2015, 02:05:56 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 05, 2015, 01:33:52 AM
I remember being on a family trip on US 40 and watching the Sideling Hill cut make progress. Sort of miss the tight turn at the side of the ridge, although not the added time to the trip.
My brother and I had pillows that we intended to use as parachutes if our car went off the "edge." There was even a farmstand or something there, so it was just something to make the 20-hour trip from MA to KY go faster (along with an overnight stop in Chambersburg, PA).
I've stayed in multiple long-distance trips in Chambersburg. What is it about that place?
I drove this road in the year or two after it opened, in part due to talk about it on MTR. I got off in Cumberland (really, charming town) but still remember the slow curvy part there. I was not bothered by it. My impression of the Interstate brand was not harmed.
If you exited at Cumberland (coming from the east) then you missed the long eastbound descent from the crest of Big Savage Mountain near Finzel (elevation about 2800 feet) to the sharp curve on the Cumberland Thruway (elevation about 600 feet).
That's a lot of descent in 13 miles (and yes, there are some (short) uphill segments too).
I got off and back on in Cumberland, traveling the curvy part along the river, and no, I did not travel eastbound at that time. I have since, but it was in thick fog. Nothing stuck out in my mind to complain about.
I have never heard of the area involved called "northeast West Virginia". In fact, I have never heard of any place called "northeast West Virginia".
The road (Corridor E) is really not so much "Byrd flavored pork". It is just another ARC road, predating Byrd's alledged pork mastery by many decades.. The main deal was to intergrate the geographic accident of the eastern panhandle into WV, and more particularly to WVU, as pre-highways, WVU was just another state college in a state with too many state colleges. (Not that it is much more than that in academics today.)
Yet another instance of this crazy claim that this road links to "the Midwest", which is also outlined on signage (New Route To Ohio And The West). Morgantown, WV is not "the Midwest".
Quote from: SP Cook on December 08, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
I have never heard of the area involved called "northeast West Virginia". In fact, I have never heard of any place called "northeast West Virginia"
Good point. IMO, most of West Virginia that borders Maryland is one of these - The Tygart Valley; the Potomac Highlands and the Eastern Panhandle (and these do to some extent overlap each other).
I would be interested in your take on this.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 08, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
The road (Corridor E) is really not so much "Byrd flavored pork". It is just another ARC road, predating Byrd's alledged pork mastery by many decades.. The main deal was to intergrate the geographic accident of the eastern panhandle into WV, and more particularly to WVU, as pre-highways, WVU was just another state college in a state with too many state colleges. (Not that it is much more than that in academics today.)
Agreed. It also provided a decent highway connection between the two western counties of Maryland (Allegany and Garrett) and the rest of the state (U.S. 40 between Cumberland and Hancock was a terrible road).
Quote from: SP Cook on December 08, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
Yet another instance of this crazy claim that this road links to "the Midwest", which is also outlined on signage (New Route To Ohio And The West). Morgantown, WV is not "the Midwest".
Agreed. It should say "New Route to I-79" (though it is not really so new any longer), unless WVDOT extends I-68 west and north to Wheeling.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 08, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
The road (Corridor E) is really not so much "Byrd flavored pork". It is just another ARC road, predating Byrd's alledged pork mastery by many decades.. The main deal was to intergrate the geographic accident of the eastern panhandle into WV, and more particularly to WVU, as pre-highways, WVU was just another state college in a state with too many state colleges. (Not that it is much more than that in academics today.)
To me, neither I-68 nor Corridor H do a very good job of that. From Martinsburg, you have to travel north into Maryland or south into Virginia to access the corridors. The only east-west highway linking the eastern panhandle to the rest of the state is WV 9, and it's not the greatest of roads, especially west of Berkeley Springs where that mountain crossing is brutal. (Berkeley Springs to Martinsburg isn't that great either, although it's fairly close to I-68 and I-70 via US 522). It seems to me that the best way to accomplish that would be to improve WV 9 and WV 29 to either US 50, then west to Clarksburg, or the remainder of WV 29 to Baker where it would tie into Corridor H.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 08, 2015, 12:47:12 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on December 08, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
I have never heard of the area involved called "northeast West Virginia". In fact, I have never heard of any place called "northeast West Virginia"
Good point. IMO, most of West Virginia that borders Maryland is one of these - The Tygart Valley; the Potomac Highlands and the Eastern Panhandle (and these do to some extent overlap each other).
The Tygart Valley isn't used as any sort of regional identifier. The name is generally only used to refer to the actual Tygart Valley in Randolph County or, sometimes, other places along the Tygart Valley River. North Central West Virginia is the regional identifier used for Monongalia, Marion, Harrison, Taylor, and sometimes other surrounding counties.
The Potomac Highlands name is fairly common, but most of the time, they're just called the mountain counties.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 09, 2015, 08:05:26 PM
To me, neither I-68 nor Corridor H do a very good job of that. From Martinsburg, you have to travel north into Maryland or south into Virginia to access the corridors. The only east-west highway linking the eastern panhandle to the rest of the state is WV 9, and it's not the greatest of roads, especially west of Berkeley Springs where that mountain crossing is brutal. (Berkeley Springs to Martinsburg isn't that great either, although it's fairly close to I-68 and I-70 via US 522). It seems to me that the best way to accomplish that would be to improve WV 9 and WV 29 to either US 50, then west to Clarksburg, or the remainder of WV 29 to Baker where it would tie into Corridor H.
Well, you are allowed to leave the state. The thing is to remember what a geographical/political accident the three eastern counties of WV are. Unless you are involved in state government or HS athletics or such the most common answer to "How many times have you been in the rest of WV" to either side is "never". One of the main purposes of E (68) was to try to integrate those three counties into the rest of WV, particularly WVU. There is a state college (Shepherd) in that area, and its OK, but it is what it is.
Same thing can be said about the northern panhandle. Yes, there are roads that tie it to the rest of WV within WV, but the logical thing to do is to enter OH or PA to get elsewhere.
In fact there still on the books a law in WV that says that if you get a ticket in another state the DMV must determine what the SL would have been in WV and unless you were over that, it doesn't count. This is left over from when WV logically and proudly raised the SL the day is was allowed to and PA and MD continues to random tax motorists for years after.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 08, 2015, 12:47:12 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on December 08, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
I have never heard of the area involved called "northeast West Virginia". In fact, I have never heard of any place called "northeast West Virginia"
Good point. IMO, most of West Virginia that borders Maryland is one of these - The Tygart Valley; the Potomac Highlands and the Eastern Panhandle (and these do to some extent overlap each other).
I would be interested in your take on this.
IMHO, the eight counties are collectively called "the eastern panhandle". This subdivides into "the Potomac Highlands" (the five counties) and the other 3, which are alternately called "the Martinsburg area", "the eastern panhandle", "the eastern gateway" or "the Shenandoah area".
The area just south of Pennsylvania is either "north central West Virginia" or "Fairmont-Clarksburg-Morgantown area", abbreviated to "FCM area" (and always in that, geographically and populationally illogical, way).
The various rural parts of north central WV divide into river valleys is you need a name for each part.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 10, 2015, 06:52:29 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 09, 2015, 08:05:26 PM
To me, neither I-68 nor Corridor H do a very good job of that. From Martinsburg, you have to travel north into Maryland or south into Virginia to access the corridors. The only east-west highway linking the eastern panhandle to the rest of the state is WV 9, and it's not the greatest of roads, especially west of Berkeley Springs where that mountain crossing is brutal. (Berkeley Springs to Martinsburg isn't that great either, although it's fairly close to I-68 and I-70 via US 522). It seems to me that the best way to accomplish that would be to improve WV 9 and WV 29 to either US 50, then west to Clarksburg, or the remainder of WV 29 to Baker where it would tie into Corridor H.
Well, you are allowed to leave the state. The thing is to remember what a geographical/political accident the three eastern counties of WV are. Unless you are involved in state government or HS athletics or such the most common answer to "How many times have you been in the rest of WV" to either side is "never". One of the main purposes of E (68) was to try to integrate those three counties into the rest of WV, particularly WVU. There is a state college (Shepherd) in that area, and its OK, but it is what it is.
If that was one of the
main purposes, wouldn't I-68 have gone through any of those counties?
No really. The ARC thinks regionally. Given the topography, the route taken was the logical route. What purpose would there be in blasting 10 times more and going 50 miles longer, just to stay in WV? People are allowed to cross state lines.
It is not uncommon to see WV state owned vehicles on 68 in Maryland, DOH, State Police and general motor pool, as the drivers probably have business the requires travel between the areas.
Brad Crouser's wonderful biography of Arch Moore has a good section on the planning for E.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 11, 2015, 10:06:26 AM
It is not uncommon to see WV state owned vehicles on 68 in Maryland, DOH, State Police and general motor pool, as the drivers probably have business the requires travel between the areas.
My western Kentucky colleague covers two highway districts (1, with the DO in Paducah , and 2, with the DO in Madisonville). His official workstation is Paducah. He lives near Marion, which is pretty much in between the two offices. The closest way for him to get to Frankfort from his home is to use I-64 through southern Indiana. Sometimes he will travel the Kentucky parkways in one direction and I-64 in the other direction for a change of pace. Someone once told him that cutting through Indiana was frowned upon, even though it was shorter. Gotta love a bureaucracy.
On the subject of integrating the EP with the rest of WV, was there ever any thought to building an expressway connecting I-81 in the Martinsburg area with I-70 in the vicinity of Big Pool, MD?
Quote from: hbelkins on December 11, 2015, 03:40:07 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on December 11, 2015, 10:06:26 AM
It is not uncommon to see WV state owned vehicles on 68 in Maryland, DOH, State Police and general motor pool, as the drivers probably have business the requires travel between the areas.
My western Kentucky colleague covers two highway districts (1, with the DO in Paducah , and 2, with the DO in Madisonville). His official workstation is Paducah. He lives near Marion, which is pretty much in between the two offices. The closest way for him to get to Frankfort from his home is to use I-64 through southern Indiana. Sometimes he will travel the Kentucky parkways in one direction and I-64 in the other direction for a change of pace. Someone once told him that cutting through Indiana was frowned upon, even though it was shorter. Gotta love a bureaucracy.
Heh. Some years ago, there was some discouragement from NYSDOT management about driving out of state while doing in-state business.
Some poor souls probably spent the time figuring out how to dodge the I-86 dip into PA. :D
Haven't heard about that policy in a while, though.
I see KY state owned vehicles in WV all the time. Often Transportation Cabinet. Unlike the situation HB describes, they are not cutting through to get to another part of their own state, so I assume they are going to a meeting.
In WV the policy on state or county owned cars is that you can cut through other states to get where you need to, such as through western Maryland, and you can take vehicles on trips to meetings. The thing the management wants to make sure of is that you buy fuel in-state if at all possible, because both state and federal fuel tax is rebated back to the agency owning the car for in-state purchases, but not out of state.
Quote from: dave19 on December 11, 2015, 10:07:41 PM
On the subject of integrating the EP with the rest of WV, was there ever any thought to building an expressway connecting I-81 in the Martinsburg area with I-70 in the vicinity of Big Pool, MD?
I doubt the demand is there.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 14, 2015, 10:59:17 AM
I see KY state owned vehicles in WV all the time. Often Transportation Cabinet. Unlike the situation HB describes, they are not cutting through to get to another part of their own state, so I assume they are going to a meeting.
In WV the policy on state or county owned cars is that you can cut through other states to get where you need to, such as through western Maryland, and you can take vehicles on trips to meetings. The thing the management wants to make sure of is that you buy fuel in-state if at all possible, because both state and federal fuel tax is rebated back to the agency owning the car for in-state purchases, but not out of state.
I have seen plenty of West Virginia and some Pennsylvania official tags on I-68 over the years.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 14, 2015, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: dave19 on December 11, 2015, 10:07:41 PM
On the subject of integrating the EP with the rest of WV, was there ever any thought to building an expressway connecting I-81 in the Martinsburg area with I-70 in the vicinity of Big Pool, MD?
I doubt the demand is there.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5724592,-78.001186,11z/data=!5m1!1e4
Note the mountain ridge running north-south. $$$. Demand won't ever justify costs.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on December 14, 2015, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 14, 2015, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: dave19 on December 11, 2015, 10:07:41 PM
On the subject of integrating the EP with the rest of WV, was there ever any thought to building an expressway connecting I-81 in the Martinsburg area with I-70 in the vicinity of Big Pool, MD?
I doubt the demand is there.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5724592,-78.001186,11z/data=!5m1!1e4
Note the mountain ridge running north-south. $$$. Demand won't ever justify costs.
WVDOT does make mention of some sort of upgrade to W.Va. 9 between I-81 and U.S. 522 on their Web site here (http://www.transportation.wv.gov/highways/Highways-Projects/WV_Route_9/Pages/default.aspx) (see text below, with
emphasis added).
QuoteBerkeley Springs to Martinsburg
One important element of the WV 9 upgrade in the Eastern Panhandle involves the segment from Berkeley Springs to Martinsburg. The Division of Highways will begin the engineering studies and continue the environmental studies, which always precede any actual right-of-way and construction work, once federal funding becomes available for the preliminary design studies.
A corridor has been selected for the approximate 27-mile section between US 522 and I-81. This part of the overall WV 9 project still is in the very early stages of development.
Berkeley Springs to Martinsburg would be a lot easier than Berkeley Springs to Paw Paw.
But I would think the most pressing corridors left in the eastern panhandle would be US 522 and US 340, not the remainder of WV 9.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2015, 09:23:01 PM
Berkeley Springs to Martinsburg would be a lot easier than Berkeley Springs to Paw Paw.
Absolutely. The grades on W.Va. 9 from Berkley Springs to Paw Paw are tough.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2015, 09:23:01 PM
But I would think the most pressing corridors left in the eastern panhandle would be US 522 and US 340, not the remainder of WV 9.
I agree.
Not clear why U.S. 340 was not widened by DOH south to the Clarke County, Virginia border when most of the rest of it was widened into an West Virginia ADHS-style expressway.
Regarding U.S. 522, bypassing Berkeley Springs is not especially easy.
The west side of town features a
steep slope, so that is probably not workable. I suppose the east side might work, though a lot of land would have to be taken.
Regarding my previous post: Without straying into Fictional Highways territory, I was thinking that such a route could come off of I-81 a mile or two north of the WV 9 interchange in the area of an overpass that used to carry railroad tracks over I-81 (now it's a service road for CSX) and more or less parallel the railroad up to the Potomac. It would cross the river and meet I-70 east of the mountains that AlexandriaVA references above.
I have seen the site regarding proposed improvements to the WV 9 corridor, and there used to be a site regarding a proposed 4-lane US 522 through Morgan County.