How common are highway lighting in your area?
In New Jersey, you see lightning by entrance/exit ramps, bridges, toll areas and in some more urban type areas they are much more used.
Not at all. NYSDOT's use of lighting is very dependent on region.
-R1: Limited to bridges and very few interchanges, posts only
-R2: Posts in Utica and Rome, high mast in Rome
-3: Posts and high mast in Syracuse and the immediate surrounding area
-4: Most interchanges lit, as is I-490 between NY 204 and NY 31F, NY 104, and NY 590
-5: Expressways within the City of Buffalo lit. No interchange lighting where mainline lights not present. NYSTA lights I-190 south of Grand Island.
-6: Many major interchanges have high-mast or post lighting
-7: None that I am aware of
-8: Some interchanges and Cross County Parkway
-9: Binghamton area and some interchanges
-10: Almost everything in Nassau and Western Suffolk
-11: Everything
Quote from: NJ on December 08, 2015, 09:51:20 AM
In New Jersey, you see lightning by entrance/exit ramps, bridges, toll areas and in some more urban type areas they are much more used.
The Morristown area on I-287 gets the fully lit treatment (along with a drop in speed limit from 65 to 55) despite not really being an urban area.
On I-4 you get the typical interchange area lighting, plus the Downtown Orlando stretch. Then from Exits 68 to 72 you get the fully lit treatment as it was included in the widening project where I-4 was made from six lanes to eight lanes. That area is not urban, but heavily developed with tourists services, yet inconsistent with the areas between 72 and 74 which is also tourist and not lit, and of course the area between the Disney interchanges which are not full lit except for the ramps.
On FL 528 they have high mast lighting at Exit 9 for Conway Road, but as a result of the new ramp tolls being installed additional lighting is being installed on the ramps not only for the new toll plaza but for the entire ramp being covered from above. I do not know if they are ditching the high masts lamps as I always thought they were created to consume power as not as many bulbs need to be used being each pole can cover far more acreage than the traditional 16 feet high lamp area.
In Georgia, highway lighting is used pretty sparingly (at least compared with other states I've beeen in). Only a few selected interchanges are lighted, either with standard luminaires, or more recently with high-mast lighting.
Even within metro Atlanta, only portions of the interstates (20,75,85) within the I-285 perimeter are lighted. I-75 in Marietta and I-85 in Gwinnett are lighted. Surprisingly, despite the high traffic volumes, very little of GA-400 and none of I-285 (including the major interchanges) is lighted.
There are a few wierd locations where lighting exists that you wouldn't expect, such as I-75 through the small town of Forsyth.
Many new roundabouts on state highways will have lighting.
I suspect the main reason there isn't more highway lighting is that the state requires local governments or municipalities to pay for the cost of electricity and maintenance.
I'm not too sure about the rest of IL, but Chicagoland has the full lighting treatment everywhere. On I-294, there are conventional cobrahead lights, and then of the full-cutoff variety. Further in town, the Dan Ryan Expressway has high-mast lighting just about everywhere but a small portion where it meets the Stevenson.
Los Angeles has some very strange lighting methods, as on the freeways, especially out in the suburbs, lights exists only at interchanges. OTOH, Seattle has the lights set up the same way as in Chicagoland, only more cobraheads and less high-masts.
Ohio puts high mast or cobraheads at just about every interchange, with the latter typically being restricted to dense urban locations. Urban and suburban areas typically get the full lighting treatment, whether it be high mast or some form of lower light on poles. ODOT loves these types of lights (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9675829,-82.9833771,3a,75y,205.17h,97.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqKcdSVCiu44iGEDBHV8y1A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) for newer median installations.
In the Columbus area, for example, everything inside of I-270 is fully lit with the exception of areas south of SR 104, as is the northern part of I-270 itself.
Most California freeways tend to have lighting at on-ramps and off-ramps, usually about a quarter mile before and after, then nothing. With the exception of some urban freeways, where lighting is pretty uniform. However, I believe the lack of lighting, especially on rural freeways, is because headlights have typically been shown to be more effective than lamp lights.
For the longest time, the only freeways in Wisconsin that were lit were in the Milwaukee area. Freeway exit ramps, major interchanges and bridges are starting to be lit. State maintained highways will split the cost to put up street lights, but the municipality has to pay for the electricity. There was a case in Northern Wisconsin where WISDOT took down the street lights because the town did not want to pay to light the highway anymore. I have a copy of the article below.
http://www.wsaw.com/home/headlines/Town-of-Lincolns-decision-to-turn-off-lights-prompts-DOT-to-remove-them-give-town-the-tab-337807581.html
Quote from: peterj920 on December 09, 2015, 01:34:16 PM
For the longest time, the only freeways in Wisconsin that were lit were in the Milwaukee area. Freeway exit ramps, major interchanges and bridges are starting to be lit.
And that's still somewhat dependent on how built-up or urban the interchange is. For instance, the new US 12 Baraboo bypass only has lights at the ramp terminal intersections, but not down the full length of the ramps/on the freeway. Similar is true with the new Wis 26 Watertown bypass. There's still numerous lighting gaps on Madison's Beltline.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 09, 2015, 02:07:37 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on December 09, 2015, 01:34:16 PM
For the longest time, the only freeways in Wisconsin that were lit were in the Milwaukee area. Freeway exit ramps, major interchanges and bridges are starting to be lit.
And that's still somewhat dependent on how built-up or urban the interchange is. For instance, the new US 12 Baraboo bypass only has lights at the ramp terminal intersections, but not down the full length of the ramps/on the freeway. Similar is true with the new Wis 26 Watertown bypass. There's still numerous lighting gaps on Madison's Beltline.
I said major bridges and the Yahara River Bridge is lit, as well as many of the exit ramps on the Beltline. In the last few years lights were added to the Wis 172 and I-43 bridges where there weren't any before. Exit ramps along US 53 in Eau Claire and I-41 in Oshkosh and Green Bay are lit. I-41 will be lit from Mason St to I-43 when the project is complete, and will be wired to have lights in the future if they ever decide to add them.
Illinois Tollway is alright, there are some sections where there is no lighting except by exits (I-88 between IL-56 Spur and IL-59 comes to mind)
The freeways in and around Phoenix are fully lit with the lamps down the center median.
Personally, I never saw the need for so damn much lighting, but then I'm from Los Angeles, and like an earlier post stated, lights are installed only at onramps and offramps.
We get lighting randomly here in PA. They might post a random light pole erected by PennDOT and not us near I-81 for no reason. MD is a little more rational and places high-mast lighting in cities and interchanges.
I-95 in CT is the longest stretch of highway that is lit. 50 miles I think from the NY state line to Exit 54 in Branford.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on December 16, 2015, 12:28:40 AM
I-95 in CT is the longest stretch of highway that is lit. 50 miles I think from the NY state line to Exit 54 in Branford.
If you include New York, it's lit until just west of NJ 4. That's nearly 80 miles. Good luck beating that for a single route.
From the west end of the Midtown Tunnel to NY 112, the LIE is lit for 54 miles. If you want to combine those two (as people in Suffolk might do), you'd be driving on lit expressways for 118 miles.
There is lighting on all metro Detroit freeways, but a lot of it doesn't work. In Detroit proper, there appears to be regular vandalism of the control cabinets and theft of the copper wiring. In other areas, lighting appears to simply not be maintained -- burned-out bulbs or bad connections -- for example, stretches where every other light is out. And on some freeways with light poles mounted on the center Jersey median wall, lots of poles are missing (removed due to structural instability?). All in all, a lovely third-world look.
South Florida 95 is lit for 87 miles it appears. Most every highway in southeast Florida has lighting as far as I remember.
A point of history re: I-495, the Long Island Expwy. When originally built starting in the 1950's it was always completely lit in NYC, Queens. However it was not lighted originally in Nassau or Western Suffolk Counties when built in the late 1950's to early 1960's. Lighting was finally installed in the late 1970's I believe and was long overdue.
Some drivers do not like freeway lighting but I do. And studies have shown since back in the 1960's that well lighted roads are safer and that's that. One book I read as a teenager in 1969 praised the Connecticut Tpk. (I-95) for it's excellent lighting over most of its length.
Quote from: SignBridge on December 18, 2015, 09:21:33 PM
A point of history re: I-495, the Long Island Expwy. When originally built starting in the 1950's it was always completely lit in NYC, Queens. However it was not lighted originally in Nassau or Western Suffolk Counties when built in the late 1950's to early 1960's. Lighting was finally installed in the late 1970's I believe and was long overdue.
Some drivers do not like freeway lighting but I do. And studies have shown since back in the 1960's that well lighted roads are safer and that's that. One book I read as a teenager in 1969 praised the Connecticut Tpk. (I-95) for it's excellent lighting over most of its length.
Yeah. For a while, it went dark at the city line. I think the parkways have been lit for quite some time, though.
More CT highways fully lit stretches:
I-84: NY Line to Exit 8, Exit 18-25, Exit 25A-30, Exit 33-65. (25-25A gap will be filled with construction)
I-91: I-95 to Exit 13, Exit 17-18, Exit 22- MA Exit 13.
I-95: Also Exit 68-70, 74-76, 82-88
I-291: Entire length
I-384: I-84 to Exit 3
I-395: Exit 9-14
I-691/CT 66: Exit 7-13
US 6: Entire Willimantic bypass
US 7: Entire Danbury area including Brookfield bypass
CT 2: I-84 to Exit 8, Exit 25-end of expressway, Foxwoods bypass
CT 2A (non- I-395): Entire length
CT 8: I-95 to CT 15, Exit 13-16, Exit 25-35, Exit 43-44
CT 9: Exit 10-18, Exit 21-end
CT 15: Exit 53-55, Exit 67-68W, Berlin Turnpike to end
CT 20: Entire expressway length
CT 40: Entire length
CT 72: Exit 1-end
LIE is lit up to Exit 65.
The Chicago area has lighting on pretty much all its highways, with maybe a few exceptions here and there. I have to admit, though, that I don't particularly care for it.
Quote from: peterj920 on December 09, 2015, 05:56:27 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on December 09, 2015, 02:07:37 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on December 09, 2015, 01:34:16 PM
For the longest time, the only freeways in Wisconsin that were lit were in the Milwaukee area. Freeway exit ramps, major interchanges and bridges are starting to be lit.
And that's still somewhat dependent on how built-up or urban the interchange is. For instance, the new US 12 Baraboo bypass only has lights at the ramp terminal intersections, but not down the full length of the ramps/on the freeway. Similar is true with the new Wis 26 Watertown bypass. There's still numerous lighting gaps on Madison's Beltline.
I said major bridges and the Yahara River Bridge is lit, as well as many of the exit ramps on the Beltline. In the last few years lights were added to the Wis 172 and I-43 bridges where there weren't any before. Exit ramps along US 53 in Eau Claire and I-41 in Oshkosh and Green Bay are lit. I-41 will be lit from Mason St to I-43 when the project is complete, and will be wired to have lights in the future if they ever decide to add them.
I-41 is lit from about WI 21 northward across the Lake Butte des Morts causeway to just north of the US 45 Algoma interchange in Oshkosh, too.
I'm not up on the extent of lighting planned for the I-41/US 10/WI 441 upgrade area between Neenah and Appleton, but the finished part of the NB to EB interchange ramp is lit and light bases are being installed on the new Little Lake Butte des Morts bridge.
Mike
Ontario lights most of its urban and suburban highways. Quebec does a really good job lighting its freeways in urban and suburban settings as well.
It seems that highway lighting is probably more important in more northern areas due to the reduced hours of daylight in the winter. This time of year, through much of Canada, a significant portion of both the morning and evening rush hours occur during night or dusk hours.
Most urban/suburban highways in Texas are fully lit, I believe. In the rural areas, you'll get a few lights if the exit is in the middle of "town."
Wisconsin Specifically:
Ramp entrances and ends lit, sometimes full length lit, usually with full cutoff cobra heads, I now see WISDOT is using LED on newer installations.
I-94 & WI-37 @ Eau Claire: LED ramp entrance lighting, and then the signalized intersections at the end are full LED.
I-94 & WI-93 @ Eau Claire: 93 Is fully lit from just south of I-94 through to US-53, one intersection has LED even though the intersection was not redone. Experimenting perhaps?
US-53, BUS 53, WI-93 @ Eau Claire: High Mast
U.S. 12 & US- 53 @ Eau Claire: Mix of high mast and Cobra heads as it is a SPUI
US-53 & River Prairie Dr @ Altoona: Full length ramp cobra head
US-53 From WI-93 to Golf Road, maybe all the way to I-94 @ Eau Claire is fully lit with cobra heads on the side.
There's many more, I don't feel like listing all.
Illinois:
Tollways (ISTHA) - Any new construction/re-construction by the Tollway is guaranteed to have lighting the entire distance. The only sections of tollway in the main Chicago area without lighting are some stretches of I-88 which haven't been rebuilt within the past 10-15 years (though I hear some of this is slated for rebuild within the next several years, so this will likely add lighting), the Edens Spur (also slated for rebuild), and I-90 (will be rebuilt by the end of this year and is having LED lighting installed the entire distance to Rockford). The Tollway has started to use LED lighting, and it honestly is much nicer to drive with. I wish IDOT would adopt the same design and lighting standards. I also like that, unlike IDOT, they can make up their mind on a pole type (aluminum truss, which is honestly a classic Illinois style).
IDOT - Honestly, they do a pretty efficient job of lighting highways, especially in District 1 (Chicago Area). Although, there are some areas where I have to scratch my head that they have a curious lack of lighting (Some of the main roads in Lake County???). Also, pick a lighting style and pole type... seriously, IDOT uses three different pole types and seems to pick which one to use randomly, and often in cases where one doesn't make sense and contrasts with another road in the area (see anything updated by IDOT standards on I-290 within thee past 15 years near Itasca for this example). I would suggest they just do what the tollway does, and preferably use the same design as the tollway (i.e. get away from the bland davit style)! I see where there might be some justification for high mast lighting (Stevenson and Dan Ryan Expressways honestly seem to work OK with it). However, in some places, it seems forced (See I-290 at I-90 interchange in Schaumburg, seriously, just let the Tollway handle the lighting at this interchange). Also, with ISTHA and City of Chicago switching to LED, IDOT's apparent refusal to switch over is mind boggling. For instance, at the I-290 and IL 390 interchange being built between the two agencies. The Tollway is using modern looking LED lighting while IDOT seems to be stuck on its outdated sodium vapor lighting.
City of Chicago - This belongs in a class of its own. The city of Chicago is famous for its "orange glow" due to extensive use of sodium vapor lights everywhere... and I mean EVERYWHERE! No city limit sign is even needed when driving because the sudden barrage of light poles is a dead giveaway... especially at night. Chicago has traditionally been famous for it's green and grey style poles. Also, the luminaries are unique as the GE "crime fighter" which basically is a modified M400 with a cone looking lamp... rather neat actually for those who have never seen one. Though, sadly, like IDOT, they lately can't seem to pick a style of pole as the traditional poles have been replaced in many spots now, and often default to one of IDOT's bland looking davit styles with a standard luminaire. With that, the city has an ambitious program to replace nearly all of the lamps with updated LED lamps as a way to reduce light pollution and eliminate the "orange glow". For someone from Chicago, seeing the orange lighting disappear will be rather odd, but I think much needed.
I live in a sizeable suburb of Baltimore, so pretty common.
Quote from: epzik8 on September 30, 2016, 04:59:46 AM
I live in a sizeable suburb of Baltimore, so pretty common.
Same here except I live in a suburb of DC. Also the BGSs usually have their own illumination as well.
The odd thing is that it seems like when there's a work zone, the highway lights often don't work there. I don't know whether that's intentional, but I've always thought a work zone is precisely where you DO want good lighting.
Quote from: ChiMilNet on September 29, 2016, 10:52:42 PM
Illinois:
Tollways (ISTHA) - Any new construction/re-construction by the Tollway is guaranteed to have lighting the entire distance. The only sections of tollway in the main Chicago area without lighting are some stretches of I-88 which haven't been rebuilt within the past 10-15 years (though I hear some of this is slated for rebuild within the next several years, so this will likely add lighting), the Edens Spur (also slated for rebuild), and I-90 (will be rebuilt by the end of this year and is having LED lighting installed the entire distance to Rockford). The Tollway has started to use LED lighting, and it honestly is much nicer to drive with. I wish IDOT would adopt the same design and lighting standards. I also like that, unlike IDOT, they can make up their mind on a pole type (aluminum truss, which is honestly a classic Illinois style).
IDOT - Honestly, they do a pretty efficient job of lighting highways, especially in District 1 (Chicago Area). Although, there are some areas where I have to scratch my head that they have a curious lack of lighting (Some of the main roads in Lake County???). Also, pick a lighting style and pole type... seriously, IDOT uses three different pole types and seems to pick which one to use randomly, and often in cases where one doesn't make sense and contrasts with another road in the area (see anything updated by IDOT standards on I-290 within thee past 15 years near Itasca for this example). I would suggest they just do what the tollway does, and preferably use the same design as the tollway (i.e. get away from the bland davit style)! I see where there might be some justification for high mast lighting (Stevenson and Dan Ryan Expressways honestly seem to work OK with it). However, in some places, it seems forced (See I-290 at I-90 interchange in Schaumburg, seriously, just let the Tollway handle the lighting at this interchange). Also, with ISTHA and City of Chicago switching to LED, IDOT's apparent refusal to switch over is mind boggling. For instance, at the I-290 and IL 390 interchange being built between the two agencies. The Tollway is using modern looking LED lighting while IDOT seems to be stuck on its outdated sodium vapor lighting.
City of Chicago - This belongs in a class of its own. The city of Chicago is famous for its "orange glow" due to extensive use of sodium vapor lights everywhere... and I mean EVERYWHERE! No city limit sign is even needed when driving because the sudden barrage of light poles is a dead giveaway... especially at night. Chicago has traditionally been famous for it's green and grey style poles. Also, the luminaries are unique as the GE "crime fighter" which basically is a modified M400 with a cone looking lamp... rather neat actually for those who have never seen one. Though, sadly, like IDOT, they lately can't seem to pick a style of pole as the traditional poles have been replaced in many spots now, and often default to one of IDOT's bland looking davit styles with a standard luminaire. With that, the city has an ambitious program to replace nearly all of the lamps with updated LED lamps as a way to reduce light pollution and eliminate the "orange glow". For someone from Chicago, seeing the orange lighting disappear will be rather odd, but I think much needed.
I-88 has no lights in rural areas, only at exits from IL-59 westward. They honestly should do lighting up to IL-47 and give us a full interchange at 47/88. Hopefully the redo of the 59 to 47 section will give us that
Quote from: ET21 on September 30, 2016, 10:46:33 PM
Quote from: ChiMilNet on September 29, 2016, 10:52:42 PM
Illinois:
Tollways (ISTHA) - Any new construction/re-construction by the Tollway is guaranteed to have lighting the entire distance. The only sections of tollway in the main Chicago area without lighting are some stretches of I-88 which haven't been rebuilt within the past 10-15 years (though I hear some of this is slated for rebuild within the next several years, so this will likely add lighting), the Edens Spur (also slated for rebuild), and I-90 (will be rebuilt by the end of this year and is having LED lighting installed the entire distance to Rockford). The Tollway has started to use LED lighting, and it honestly is much nicer to drive with. I wish IDOT would adopt the same design and lighting standards. I also like that, unlike IDOT, they can make up their mind on a pole type (aluminum truss, which is honestly a classic Illinois style).
IDOT - Honestly, they do a pretty efficient job of lighting highways, especially in District 1 (Chicago Area). Although, there are some areas where I have to scratch my head that they have a curious lack of lighting (Some of the main roads in Lake County???). Also, pick a lighting style and pole type... seriously, IDOT uses three different pole types and seems to pick which one to use randomly, and often in cases where one doesn't make sense and contrasts with another road in the area (see anything updated by IDOT standards on I-290 within thee past 15 years near Itasca for this example). I would suggest they just do what the tollway does, and preferably use the same design as the tollway (i.e. get away from the bland davit style)! I see where there might be some justification for high mast lighting (Stevenson and Dan Ryan Expressways honestly seem to work OK with it). However, in some places, it seems forced (See I-290 at I-90 interchange in Schaumburg, seriously, just let the Tollway handle the lighting at this interchange). Also, with ISTHA and City of Chicago switching to LED, IDOT's apparent refusal to switch over is mind boggling. For instance, at the I-290 and IL 390 interchange being built between the two agencies. The Tollway is using modern looking LED lighting while IDOT seems to be stuck on its outdated sodium vapor lighting.
City of Chicago - This belongs in a class of its own. The city of Chicago is famous for its "orange glow" due to extensive use of sodium vapor lights everywhere... and I mean EVERYWHERE! No city limit sign is even needed when driving because the sudden barrage of light poles is a dead giveaway... especially at night. Chicago has traditionally been famous for it's green and grey style poles. Also, the luminaries are unique as the GE "crime fighter" which basically is a modified M400 with a cone looking lamp... rather neat actually for those who have never seen one. Though, sadly, like IDOT, they lately can't seem to pick a style of pole as the traditional poles have been replaced in many spots now, and often default to one of IDOT's bland looking davit styles with a standard luminaire. With that, the city has an ambitious program to replace nearly all of the lamps with updated LED lamps as a way to reduce light pollution and eliminate the "orange glow". For someone from Chicago, seeing the orange lighting disappear will be rather odd, but I think much needed.
I-88 has no lights in rural areas, only at exits from IL-59 westward. They honestly should do lighting up to IL-47 and give us a full interchange at 47/88. Hopefully the redo of the 59 to 47 section will give us that
I was rather surprised they didn't extend the ISTHA standard practice "down the middle" lighting to at least the IL-56 West split when the section through Aurora was widened. Agreed that it should go at least to IL-47. I-88 West of there does not get the traffic that I-90 does to Rockford, so I doubt that it will get the same widening anytime in the foreseeable future (let alone lighting).
Highway lighting? What's that? The only highway lighting we have in my part of NC are attached to the front of my car, LOL.
In all seriousness, after growing up and learning to drive in the Chicago area it was a real culture shock to move down here and have completely dark highways everywhere.
Every once in a while you may see some lighting through towns on surface streets, but out on the highways, forget it.
That's one reason I don't want to move away from the Metro New York City area despite heavy traffic and high taxes. Here in the heavier populated Long Island suburbs we have excellent street lighting.
Quote from: SignBridge on October 25, 2016, 08:48:02 PM
That's one reason I don't want to move away from the Metro New York City area despite heavy traffic and high taxes. Here in the heavier populated Long Island suburbs we have excellent street lighting.
Can you send some of that lighting Upstate? I'd love any form of lighting on some of the expressways.
Quote from: SignBridge on October 25, 2016, 08:48:02 PM
That's one reason I don't want to move away from the Metro New York City area despite heavy traffic and high taxes. Here in the heavier populated Long Island suburbs we have excellent street lighting.
You are the first person I've come across to make street lighting such a prominent factor in staying where they are.
Quote from: SignBridge on October 25, 2016, 08:48:02 PM
That's one reason I don't want to move away from the Metro New York City area despite heavy traffic and high taxes. Here in the heavier populated Long Island suburbs we have excellent street lighting.
You would be scared to move to Seminole County or Clay County FL.. Orlando and Jacksonville suburbs respectively. Not many streetlights outside incorporated cities
The cities have lots of streetlights. Since Jax and Duval County are consolidated some semi rural roads even have streetlights
LGMS428
In the Richmond metro it's not common at all unless you're actually inside the city limits itself, and even that's not a given.
The main highway through the city (I-95) is lit from mm72 to just past mm76 only. The rest is dark (even at Exit 79 which is a major interchange with I-64 west and I-195), which SUCKS given how notoriously dangerous this highway is, especially on the 95/64 overlap. However, the entire length of I-195, VA 195 (Downtown Expwy) and most of the city portion of VA 76 (Powhite Pkwy) are well lit.
In the Hampton Roads region the highways are very well lit. Basically every expressway is lit except for the Chesapeake Expwy (VA 168), a very brief portion of I-664 south of the Monitor-Merrimac Bridge-Tunnel and the Suffolk Bypass, as none of those three segments really needs it at all
Caltrans has an interesting study on various states' lighting policies:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/newtech/researchreports/preliminary_investigations/docs/highway_lighting_practices_and_policies_preliminary_investigation.pdf
A lot of the rural and coastal routes in the state are either not well-lit or are just not lit at all, and I believe that's mostly due to light pollution concerns.
Quote from: coatimundi on November 15, 2016, 12:48:34 PM
A lot of the rural and coastal routes in the state are either not well-lit or are just not lit at all, and I believe that's mostly due to light pollution concerns.
I blame the copper wire thieves. :verymad:
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 15, 2016, 04:09:52 PM
Quote from: coatimundi on November 15, 2016, 12:48:34 PM
A lot of the rural and coastal routes in the state are either not well-lit or are just not lit at all, and I believe that's mostly due to light pollution concerns.
I blame the copper wire thieves. :verymad:
That was a big problem in Tucson during the copper boom about ten years ago. It cost the local agencies something like $5,000 each time they had to fix one. But Tucson had a huge meth problem at that time, so I would expect that, in California, Indio and Redding had similar issues.