AARoads Forum

Some may think its good news that the Mom & Pop buster Wal Mart is cutting back some of their stores.  However, jobs will be lost and its a sad case for one of the big giant stores to actually get into this position.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/wal-mart-to-close-269-stores-globally-1452868122?mod=e2fb

Quote from: roadman65 on January 15, 2016, 10:55:39 PM
Some may think its good news that the Mom & Pop buster Wal Mart is cutting back some of their stores.  However, jobs will be lost and its a sad case for one of the big giant stores to actually get into this position.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/wal-mart-to-close-269-stores-globally-1452868122?mod=e2fb

To be honest, Wal-Mart is the reason that they took down K-Mart, which did things that Walmart doesn't want to do, and does them better than what Walmart did. First, Wal-Mart treated their employees like trash. Not with K-Mart. The cycle kept repeating till K-Mart started hemorrhaging money and losing shoppers...also, Wal-Mart was greedy after Sam Walton died, and it's still a despicable place 30 years later. They don't even need to try anymore...

TL:DR Walmart is too greedy and brought down things people loved.

Related story - WalMart has decided not to build two large stores in the District of Columbia, one of which would have been in a pretty impoverished part of town.

Washington Post: District leaders furious Walmart breaking promise to build stores in poor neighborhoods (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/district-leaders-furious-walmart-wont-build-stores-in-poor-neighborhoods/2016/01/15/3425f5fa-bbb3-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html)

QuoteWalmart abruptly announced Friday that it was abandoning a promise to build stores in Washington's poorest neighborhoods, an agreement that had been key to the deal allowing the retailer to begin operating in the nation's capital.

QuoteThe giant retailer cited increasing costs for the new projects and disappointing performance at the three D.C. stores it opened over the past several years. But news that Walmart would pull out of two supercenters planned for east of the Anacostia River, where its wares and jobs are wanted most, shocked D.C. leaders. In one case, the city had already committed $90 million to make a development surrounding one of the stores viable.

Quote"I'm blood mad,"  D.C. Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D) said at a Friday news conference.

Quote"It's an outrage,"  said former mayor Vincent C. Gray (D), who in 2013 completed the handshake deal for the stores. "This is devastating and disrespectful to the residents of the East End of the District of Columbia."

Quote from: noelbotevera on January 15, 2016, 11:12:07 PM
TL:DR Walmart is too greedy and brought down things people loved.

Wal-Mart doesn't force anybody to work for them. What they do provide, however, is a paying job (and they also provide some benefits -- many minimum wage jobs have zero benefits). Is there a career ladder to climb? Probably not. But it's a job, and unlike at a Mom and Pop store, the chances of that paycheck not coming in is slim (though I know that's rather ironic, given the point of this thread, but there's still plenty of other stores).

Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2016, 03:31:13 PM
Wal-Mart doesn't force anybody to work for them.

But they put the other potential employers out of business, so for low skilled labor in a small town there are a lot fewer places to work.

Quote from: noelbotevera on January 15, 2016, 11:12:07 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on January 15, 2016, 10:55:39 PM
Some may think its good news that the Mom & Pop buster Wal Mart is cutting back some of their stores.  However, jobs will be lost and its a sad case for one of the big giant stores to actually get into this position.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/wal-mart-to-close-269-stores-globally-1452868122?mod=e2fb

To be honest, Wal-Mart is the reason that they took down K-Mart, which did things that Walmart doesn't want to do, and does them better than what Walmart did. First, Wal-Mart treated their employees like trash. Not with K-Mart. The cycle kept repeating till K-Mart started hemorrhaging money and losing shoppers...also, Wal-Mart was greedy after Sam Walton died, and it's still a despicable place 30 years later. They don't even need to try anymore...

TL:DR Walmart is too greedy and brought down things people loved.

I would like to visit the K-mart where employees' attitudes show that they like their jobs.  They trump even Wal-Mart employees in apparent misery, and that is nothing to be proud of.

Quote from: kkt on January 16, 2016, 04:05:54 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2016, 03:31:13 PM
Wal-Mart doesn't force anybody to work for them.

But they put the other potential employers out of business, so for low skilled labor in a small town there are a lot fewer places to work.

And fewer places to shop.  Any idiot with a garden knows the perils of monoculture.

Quote from: kkt on January 16, 2016, 04:05:54 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2016, 03:31:13 PM
Wal-Mart doesn't force anybody to work for them.

But they put the other potential employers out of business, so for low skilled labor in a small town there are a lot fewer places to work.

Is there actually any evidence of that? As far as I'm concerned, Wal-Mart's bring jobs to communities who have little other opportunity.

Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2016, 06:32:16 PM

Quote from: kkt on January 16, 2016, 04:05:54 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on January 16, 2016, 03:31:13 PM
Wal-Mart doesn't force anybody to work for them.

But they put the other potential employers out of business, so for low skilled labor in a small town there are a lot fewer places to work.

Is there actually any evidence of that? As far as I'm concerned, Wal-Mart's bring jobs to communities who have little other opportunity.

Depends on the community. Cornell University did a study of shopping patterns when Walmart moved into Ithaca. Before Walmart opened, those who couldn't afford to shop at the high-priced local shops (i.e. the laborers at Cornell, etc.) went to Cortland or Syracuse once a month to shop at Ames, Kmart, or the closest Walmart. The main people who shopped at the Ithaca location were the same people who traveled far to get cheap goods and the local shops saw little to no decline in sales, because the people who shopped there wouldn't be caught dead in a Walmart. It ended up being a net benefit to Ithaca.

In other places, Walmart killed downtowns, but I wonder how much of that is due to the local places overcharging. If a store is the only place in town that sells something, they're probably going to charge more and pocket the extra profit because there's no competition. Do note that I shop local whenever possible, but on a grad student budget, Walmart often gives me the best bang for my buck. Target really isn't much better, either.

When WalMart came to Potsdam, a lot of people were vehemently opposed and swore they would never shop there.  They all shop there now.  One of my professors said these people looked rather sheepish when he caught them at WalMart.

Quote from: vdeane on January 16, 2016, 09:23:59 PM
When WalMart came to Potsdam, a lot of people were vehemently opposed and swore they would never shop there.  They all shop there now.  One of my professors said these people looked rather sheepish when he caught them at WalMart.

Similarly, the opposition to WalMart stores in the District of Columbia has been strong and loud. But curiously, there were always plenty of D.C. registered vehicles in the parking lots of WalMart stores within easy driving distance of D.C.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 17, 2016, 12:04:03 AM

Quote from: vdeane on January 16, 2016, 09:23:59 PM
When WalMart came to Potsdam, a lot of people were vehemently opposed and swore they would never shop there.  They all shop there now.  One of my professors said these people looked rather sheepish when he caught them at WalMart.

Similarly, the opposition to WalMart stores in the District of Columbia has been strong and loud. But curiously, there were always plenty of D.C. registered vehicles in the parking lots of WalMart stores within easy driving distance of D.C.

I wonder how much business the one on H Street gets. I meant to head over there to check it out myself when I was in town.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 17, 2016, 12:04:03 AM
Similarly, the opposition to WalMart stores in the District of Columbia has been strong and loud. But curiously, there were always plenty of D.C. registered vehicles in the parking lots of WalMart stores within easy driving distance of D.C.

But is it the same people? There's been plenty of strong and loud opposition to WalMart having stores within the limits of NYC (currently there are none), but there are also plenty of NYC residents who have no particular opposition to WalMart and will willingly go there if convenient.

Quote from: vdeane on January 16, 2016, 09:23:59 PM
When WalMart came to Potsdam, a lot of people were vehemently opposed and swore they would never shop there.  They all shop there now.  One of my professors said these people looked rather sheepish when he caught them at WalMart.

This is one of those things where peer pressure can be a very strong force. WalMart is oft-maligned for their obnoxious business practices, and in many social circles it is an established expectation that you are supposed to hate them. So either you actually hate them, you keep your mouth shut and nod your head in agreement with everyone saying they hate them, or you face harsh judgment for expressing a heretical opinion.

Because of this, many people are uncomfortable shopping at WalMart simply because they perceive it as taboo. And if other stores are easier to shop at anyway, it's easy to avoid doing so and maintain the taboo.

But then if a new WalMart opens up that is awfully convenient for these people to go to, they are going to be tempted to shop there. Inevitably, many of them will start shopping there because we as a society tend to put convenience before principle. This results in them getting desensitized to the idea, and subsequently it becomes socially acceptable.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 17, 2016, 12:04:03 AM

Quote from: vdeane on January 16, 2016, 09:23:59 PM
When WalMart came to Potsdam, a lot of people were vehemently opposed and swore they would never shop there.  They all shop there now.  One of my professors said these people looked rather sheepish when he caught them at WalMart.

Similarly, the opposition to WalMart stores in the District of Columbia has been strong and loud. But curiously, there were always plenty of D.C. registered vehicles in the parking lots of WalMart stores within easy driving distance of D.C.

The logic in your analysis makes my head hurt. In a city of 600K+, you could very well find a large group of people who oppose WalMart, along with a separate and unrelated group of people who shop at the Walmarts in VA and MD. Not say there isn't an overlap, but is that really the best you can come up with?

I'd say that the title of this thread is karma after the death of Sam Walton. His greedy sons caused this, and now that they're beginning to lose some money, which they very much deserve. Now people oppose the brand and hate it...we pretty much have every right to spit on the thing.

There aren't any Walmarts in "core" Northern Virginia (Arlington, Alexandria, and significant parts of Northern Virginia). With them abandoning their small-format retail, don't really know where they'd fit into the local retail scheme. Separately, Target has had a small-format store open in Rosslyn for a few months (in addition to their large-format stores in Potomac Yard, Bailey's X-roads, Seven Corners)

They just built one very recently near where I live. It's not that far from another Wal-Mart in the area. Not sure why they even built it.

Quote from: AlexandriaVAThere aren't any Walmarts in "core" Northern Virginia (Arlington, Alexandria, and significant parts of Northern Virginia).

If by "core", you mean inside the Beltway, then no there aren't.  But there are two WalMarts along Route 1 in southeast Fairfax County (including a newer one at Penn Daw, less than 2 miles from the Beltway), plus another in Kingstowne.

For all the railing against Walmart that goes on, it's unfortunate that more of it is not directed at the generally dingy stores, gloomy air among the employees, and general lack of investment in a happy shopping experience. These are trade-offs that people without a lot of money should not have to make.

A few years ago, when I had finally been to maybe five Walmarts (they are a relatively recent phenomenon in this part of the country), I emailed the company and explained to them that the employees never seemed particularly happy.  I was told that they could only address my issue if I framed it in the form of a particular complaint regarding a particular incident at a particular store.

Quote from: froggie on January 17, 2016, 08:16:22 AM

Quote from: AlexandriaVAThere aren't any Walmarts in "core" Northern Virginia (Arlington, Alexandria, and significant parts of Northern Virginia).

If by "core", you mean inside the Beltway, then no there aren't.  But there are two WalMarts along Route 1 in southeast Fairfax County (including a newer one at Penn Daw, less than 2 miles from the Beltway), plus another in Kingstowne.

That's about a half a mile from my house walking distance (maybe a mile by car due to street layout). It was already there when I moved to this house in 2001. I seldom go there, in part because it's always very crowded, but one thing I have always noticed, going all the way back to when I moved here, is a version of what cpzilliacus notes–there are always loads of cars parked there with DC and especially Maryland plates. I don't know whether or where there are Wal-Marts in PG County, but I suspect that's the origin of most of the Maryland-plated cars.

Only two inside or near the Beltway:  one off Branch Ave in Clinton, and other in Bladensburg.  But given the opening of the WalMart in Penn Daw about 4-5 years ago, I would expect most of the MD-plated folks are going there instead of Kingstowne now...

Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 17, 2016, 08:38:13 AM
For all the railing against Walmart that goes on, it's unfortunate that more of it is not directed at the generally dingy stores, gloomy air among the employees, and general lack of investment in a happy shopping experience. These are trade-offs that people without a lot of money should not have to make.

So how much would prices go up, to provide a "happy shopping experience"?

People without a lot of money might forgo the "happy shopping experience" to save money, and they should not be lightly denied that option. So would some people like me, who have more money but would like to keep it that way. (Not that Wal-Marts are easy to get to where I live, inside I-495 in Virginia, so I usually shop there only when I'm already outside the Beltway for some other reason.)

Then again, shopping is something I do when I have to. It's not something I enjoy, even at the pricier stores.

What's lost in this is that 102 of those 154 stores being close in the US were a convenience store/dollar store experiment called "Walmart Express".  Apparently Walmart decided that they shouldn't be in that particular business.  That means only 52 Walmarts of any kind (supercenter, standard, or neighborhood market) other than the experiment opened in 2011 are being closed in the US.

A lot is made of small businesses closing due to Wal-Mart. If everyone had great experiences with these small businesses, they would continue going to them even if they paid a little more, as so many people claim. Several years ago, 2 Wal-Mart's opened up in the town next to me. I can't think of a single small business that suffered in the general area. If anything, they succeeded due to the additional traffic.  Of the ones I frequent, they have very good customer service.

And that may be the key. I've seen small businesses where they treat you great, and others where the owners and employees are grumpy and don't want to spend the time to help you out. When other options come along, those grumpy owners become even grumpier.  The pleasant stores continue to do well.

Quote from: froggie on January 17, 2016, 09:22:45 AM
Only two inside or near the Beltway:  one off Branch Ave in Clinton, and other in Bladensburg.  But given the opening of the WalMart in Penn Daw about 4-5 years ago, I would expect most of the MD-plated folks are going there instead of Kingstowne now...

There's one at H and 1st NW

One thing I could sure say about Wal Mart, one store can effect the commute of many daily motorists as it can add so much traffic to the roads leading to and around the store.

In my neighborhood a Wal Mart Neighborhood Market opened a few years back and now because of this. we have a new signal that backs up traffic for at least two signal cycles.  Before the store opened the stretch of roadway around the store was completely free flowing.  Now with the signal in full operation, from the day it was installed and turned on causes a standstill for traffic where it used to flow at 40 mph or better.

Not to mention Orange County, Florida does not know how to time signals properly of to coordinate them all to work properly does not help either.  While the company that owns Wal Mart is making money, the rest of us are polluting the environment and having to add fifteen or more minutes to our daily commutes all because of a business decision by some people in a board room.

Quote from: froggie on January 17, 2016, 09:22:45 AM
Only two inside or near the Beltway:  one off Branch Ave in Clinton, and other in Bladensburg.  But given the opening of the WalMart in Penn Daw about 4-5 years ago, I would expect most of the MD-plated folks are going there instead of Kingstowne now...

We still get a lot of Maryland plates at this one. Could just be that they want to go to other places in the vicinity. Who knows. I haven't been to the one you cite, though I know where it is.

Sounds like FDOT is at fault here. I would think traffic lights have gone up all over the place for all sorts of businesses.

The only one in West Virginia that's closing is the supercenter at Kimball. The physical address may be Kimball, but in reality it's the Walmart for Welch. Welch is in McDowell County, which is one of the most economically depressed areas in the country. If a Walmart can't succeed in that type of community -- precisely the very place it was intended to serve -- then things are worse than I thought. Economic recovery my rear end.

I really feel for the people who are left in Welch. It's a torturous drive to Bluefield, Logan or Williamson, the nearest towns with a Walmart-type store. There was a Kmart in Kimball years ago, but it closed long before Kmart started its downhill slide.

Wish there was a way to tag people here the way you can on Facebook. I'll bet SP Cook has some thoughts on this, given his familiarity with the area.

Quote from: hbelkins on January 17, 2016, 01:29:21 PM
Wish there was a way to tag people here the way you can on Facebook. I'll bet SP Cook has some thoughts on this, given his familiarity with the area.

You can private-message or e-mail him, if he doesn't soon pick up on this thread. I don't know how similar an AARoads PM is to a Facebook tag.

These sound like the actions of a company that has expanded too far.  The market is too saturated with Walmarts.

I have a love-hate relationship with Walmart.  I hate going there, but it's so goddamn convenient.  Especially while I was on the road for work.
I've never enjoyed a visit to Walmart though; always an exercise in endurance.
But every bad thing I could say about Walmart is pretty much equally true for almost every other big-box retailer, so why bother?

Quote from: Brandon on January 17, 2016, 10:47:04 AM
What's lost in this is that 102 of those 154 stores being close in the US were a convenience store/dollar store experiment called "Walmart Express".  Apparently Walmart decided that they shouldn't be in that particular business.  That means only 52 Walmarts of any kind (supercenter, standard, or neighborhood market) other than the experiment opened in 2011 are being closed in the US.

Correct. Even including the express stores, Walmart will have a net increase of locations in the United States this year. Neighborhood Markets are becoming quite common as a competitor to Aldi and Save-A-Lot.

Quote from: cl94 on January 17, 2016, 11:17:17 AM

Quote from: froggie on January 17, 2016, 09:22:45 AM
Only two inside or near the Beltway:  one off Branch Ave in Clinton, and other in Bladensburg.  But given the opening of the WalMart in Penn Daw about 4-5 years ago, I would expect most of the MD-plated folks are going there instead of Kingstowne now...

There's one at H and 1st NW

Yes but we were discussing Prince George's County.

Quote from: froggie on January 17, 2016, 09:22:45 AM
Only two inside or near the Beltway:  one off Branch Ave in Clinton, and other in Bladensburg.  But given the opening of the WalMart in Penn Daw about 4-5 years ago, I would expect most of the MD-plated folks are going there instead of Kingstowne now...

The two I am specifically referring to are on the southbound side of U.S. 301 at Excalibur Road (between Md. 197 and Md. 214) in Bowie, Prince George's County, and on Russett Green East north of Md. 198 (just west of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway) in the Anne Arundel County section of Laurel.  There was formerly a Sam's Club on Brightseat Road south of Md. 202 near FedEx Field and the defunct Landover Mall that always seemed busy with D.C. customers, but that store shut down quite a few years ago.

The Laurel location in particular (one of the older WalMarts in the state, also has a Sam's Club) has always seemed to attract a lot of vehicles with D.C. registration plates, perhaps because of the ease of access off the B-W Parkway, even though it is one county "further out" than Prince George's.

Another WalMart (which I avoid because it is a dirty store) is on Md. 450 (Annapolis Road) east of the B-W Parkway.  That one also draws customers with D.C. tags.

Quote from: cl94 on January 17, 2016, 11:17:17 AM

Quote from: froggie on January 17, 2016, 09:22:45 AM
Only two inside or near the Beltway:  one off Branch Ave in Clinton, and other in Bladensburg.  But given the opening of the WalMart in Penn Daw about 4-5 years ago, I would expect most of the MD-plated folks are going there instead of Kingstowne now...

There's one at H and 1st NW

I go there sometimes.  Much smaller than WalMarts outside the District of Columbia.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 17, 2016, 07:28:35 PM

Quote from: cl94 on January 17, 2016, 11:17:17 AM

Quote from: froggie on January 17, 2016, 09:22:45 AM
Only two inside or near the Beltway:  one off Branch Ave in Clinton, and other in Bladensburg.  But given the opening of the WalMart in Penn Daw about 4-5 years ago, I would expect most of the MD-plated folks are going there instead of Kingstowne now...

There's one at H and 1st NW

I go there sometimes.  Much smaller than WalMarts outside the District of Columbia.

When I lived in DC, I'd drop in there whenever I was in that part of town. My friends and I would more often head to Maryland to go to Wal-Mart since it was more car friendly so you could buy more in one trip.

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on January 17, 2016, 01:08:09 AM
The logic in your analysis makes my head hurt. In a city of 600K+, you could very well find a large group of people who oppose WalMart, along with a separate and unrelated group of people who shop at the Walmarts in VA and MD. Not say there isn't an overlap, but is that really the best you can come up with?

I did not make any claims about systematic surveys of either group.

But individuals claiming to be associated with labor unions in D.C. and with environmental groups were strident in stating their opposition to WalMart to the news media and D.C. elected officials, yet D.C. residents (at least those that drive vehicles tagged in D.C.) seem to have a revealed preference for WalMart.

Only group where I am fairly certain there is one line of advocacy from the higher-ups and revealed behavior from the rank-and-file are the unions that represent hourly employees of WMATA.  When going to WalMart (which is not all that often), I have repeatedly seen people wearing uniforms that identify them as operating employees of WMATA (and no, many of them do not live in D.C.), even though the leadership of their largest union is not especially pro-WalMart (like most labor unions in the U.S.).

Quote from: Duke87 on January 17, 2016, 01:06:07 AM
But then if a new WalMart opens up that is awfully convenient for these people to go to, they are going to be tempted to shop there. Inevitably, many of them will start shopping there because we as a society tend to put convenience before principle. This results in them getting desensitized to the idea, and subsequently it becomes socially acceptable.

THIS.  This is THE issue. 

Quote from: jemacedo9 on January 17, 2016, 07:51:15 PM

Quote from: Duke87 on January 17, 2016, 01:06:07 AM
But then if a new WalMart opens up that is awfully convenient for these people to go to, they are going to be tempted to shop there. Inevitably, many of them will start shopping there because we as a society tend to put convenience before principle. This results in them getting desensitized to the idea, and subsequently it becomes socially acceptable.

THIS.  This is THE issue.

I remember when Walmart opened a location in Columbus a couple miles from Bexley, an extremely wealthy community home to quite  a few well-known rich people. People there were extremely anti-Walmart. Then they started shopping at the new Walmart because it was as close as or closer to home than where they normally shopped and prices were significantly better for comparable goods.

Quote from: oscar on January 17, 2016, 10:00:27 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 17, 2016, 08:38:13 AM
For all the railing against Walmart that goes on, it's unfortunate that more of it is not directed at the generally dingy stores, gloomy air among the employees, and general lack of investment in a happy shopping experience. These are trade-offs that people without a lot of money should not have to make.

So how much would prices go up, to provide a "happy shopping experience"?

People without a lot of money might forgo the "happy shopping experience" to save money, and they should not be lightly denied that option. So would some people like me, who have more money but would like to keep it that way. (Not that Wal-Marts are easy to get to where I live, inside I-495 in Virginia, so I usually shop there only when I'm already outside the Beltway for some other reason.)

Then again, shopping is something I do when I have to. It's not something I enjoy, even at the pricier stores.

There is a certain minimum of respect required of anyone who is being paid money by somebody else voluntarily.  Walmart doesn't meet this minimum at an acceptably consistent level, even by big-box store standards.

I hope that we have not sunk to lending credence to the idea of low prices being an acceptable trade-off for treating customers like their patronage is a burden on the employees.

Quote from: jemacedo9 on January 17, 2016, 07:51:15 PM

Quote from: Duke87 on January 17, 2016, 01:06:07 AM
But then if a new WalMart opens up that is awfully convenient for these people to go to, they are going to be tempted to shop there. Inevitably, many of them will start shopping there because we as a society tend to put convenience before principle. This results in them getting desensitized to the idea, and subsequently it becomes socially acceptable.

THIS.  This is THE issue.

And what, exactly, is wrong with shopping at Walmart being socially acceptable?

Quote from: hbelkins on January 17, 2016, 08:49:20 PM

Quote from: jemacedo9 on January 17, 2016, 07:51:15 PM

Quote from: Duke87 on January 17, 2016, 01:06:07 AM
But then if a new WalMart opens up that is awfully convenient for these people to go to, they are going to be tempted to shop there. Inevitably, many of them will start shopping there because we as a society tend to put convenience before principle. This results in them getting desensitized to the idea, and subsequently it becomes socially acceptable.

THIS.  This is THE issue.

And what, exactly, is wrong with shopping at Walmart being socially acceptable?

Absolutely nothing. Shop there if you want. Shop elsewhere if you want. It's a free country

Quote from: hbelkinsAnd what, exactly, is wrong with shopping at Walmart being socially acceptable?

His point, which is a valid one IMO, is that we as a society place convenience higher than principle.

Quote from: froggie on January 18, 2016, 08:09:26 AM

Quote from: hbelkinsAnd what, exactly, is wrong with shopping at Walmart being socially acceptable?

His point, which is a valid one IMO, is that we as a society place convenience higher than principle.

Yes...that is the point I meant to emphasize.  Discussing principle is one thing; living out said principle is more difficult in many cases.  The Wal-Mart issue, I would bet, has many examples of people who were anti-Wal-Mart who have found themselves shopping there, even if not frequently, at one time or another.

Quote from: hbelkins on January 17, 2016, 08:49:20 PM

Quote from: jemacedo9 on January 17, 2016, 07:51:15 PM

Quote from: Duke87 on January 17, 2016, 01:06:07 AM
But then if a new WalMart opens up that is awfully convenient for these people to go to, they are going to be tempted to shop there. Inevitably, many of them will start shopping there because we as a society tend to put convenience before principle. This results in them getting desensitized to the idea, and subsequently it becomes socially acceptable.

THIS.  This is THE issue.

And what, exactly, is wrong with shopping at Walmart being socially acceptable?

H.B., that is a fair question. 

Given my (frequently) liberal political views, I am not always a fan of WalMart - and it seems like everything sold in WalMart is manufactured in Red China. 

But a Sam's Club I stop at somewhat frequently in Glen Burnie, Maryland has some of the cheapest prices for Diesel fuel to be found in the state (some Sheetz outlets in the western counties of Maryland have very low Diesel prices as well, though some Sheetz (those that are some distance away from I-81 and I-70) are much more expensive).

Quote from: froggie on January 18, 2016, 08:09:26 AM

Quote from: hbelkinsAnd what, exactly, is wrong with shopping at Walmart being socially acceptable?

His point, which is a valid one IMO, is that we as a society place convenience higher than principle.

I get his point. My point is that not wanting to shop at Walmart is a misguided principle.

Or, to clarify, nothing about shopping at Walmart is a violation of my principles.

Quote from: hbelkins on January 17, 2016, 08:49:20 PM

Quote from: jemacedo9 on January 17, 2016, 07:51:15 PM

Quote from: Duke87 on January 17, 2016, 01:06:07 AM
But then if a new WalMart opens up that is awfully convenient for these people to go to, they are going to be tempted to shop there. Inevitably, many of them will start shopping there because we as a society tend to put convenience before principle. This results in them getting desensitized to the idea, and subsequently it becomes socially acceptable.

THIS.  This is THE issue.

And what, exactly, is wrong with shopping at Walmart being socially acceptable?

Nothing I know of.  I'm not as fond of them as I am of Meijer; hence I shop at Meijer weekly, and rarely go into Walmart.  I simply find one better than the other at the same price point.  That said, most of the Walmarts I've seen seem to only take business away from Kmart and other, now defunct discounters.  If anything, the nearest two Walmarts to me seem to have merely added to their corridors.  One was 100% greenfield, being built near new residences.  The other replaced a dead mall (along with a new Menards).  Due to the Walmart and Menrads there, they've made it possible for newer chains to come into that corridor, revitalizing the corridor.

Quote from: Brandon on January 18, 2016, 05:27:50 PM
That said, most of the Walmarts I've seen seem to only take business away from Kmart and other, now defunct discounters.  If anything, the nearest two Walmarts to me seem to have merely added to their corridors.  One was 100% greenfield, being built near new residences.  The other replaced a dead mall (along with a new Menards).  Due to the Walmart and Menrads there, they've made it possible for newer chains to come into that corridor, revitalizing the corridor.

That's what I've noticed out here. Most of the more recent new/relocated ones in Buffalo were/are being built in vacant land or where large abandoned buildings stood. The new Lockport one was built on a dead mall and the new Cheektowaga one is being constructed where an enclosed flea market was. The new one in Queensbury, NY was built on vacant land and effectively replaced a Super Kmart.

Quote from: oscar on January 17, 2016, 01:59:39 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on January 17, 2016, 01:29:21 PM
Wish there was a way to tag people here the way you can on Facebook. I'll bet SP Cook has some thoughts on this, given his familiarity with the area.

You can private-message or e-mail him, if he doesn't soon pick up on this thread. I don't know how similar an AARoads PM is to a Facebook tag.

The '@rickmastfan67' style will be coming soon to SMF.  However, we have to wait till SMF 2.1 comes out, but there is no timeline for it to come out.  Plus, when it comes out, we will be switching to a new theme style since they have stopped supporting the 'core' them after 2.0.x, and that's what the Button Copy theme is currently based on.

Quote from: jemacedo9 on January 18, 2016, 08:27:14 AM

Quote from: froggie on January 18, 2016, 08:09:26 AM

Quote from: hbelkinsAnd what, exactly, is wrong with shopping at Walmart being socially acceptable?

His point, which is a valid one IMO, is that we as a society place convenience higher than principle.

Yes...that is the point I meant to emphasize.  Discussing principle is one thing; living out said principle is more difficult in many cases.  The Wal-Mart issue, I would bet, has many examples of people who were anti-Wal-Mart who have found themselves shopping there, even if not frequently, at one time or another.

Indeed. You will find that most people who refuse to shop at (insert hated business of choice here) do not have logical cause to regularly patronize one anyway. Once you put them in a position where they would actually have to go significantly out of their way to avoid shopping somewhere, they decide their boycott isn't worth it and give up. Which renders said boycotts ineffective since the targeted business isn't really losing any customers from them.

Quote from: Duke87 on January 19, 2016, 11:21:30 PM

Quote from: jemacedo9 on January 18, 2016, 08:27:14 AM

Quote from: froggie on January 18, 2016, 08:09:26 AM

Quote from: hbelkinsAnd what, exactly, is wrong with shopping at Walmart being socially acceptable?

His point, which is a valid one IMO, is that we as a society place convenience higher than principle.

Yes...that is the point I meant to emphasize.  Discussing principle is one thing; living out said principle is more difficult in many cases.  The Wal-Mart issue, I would bet, has many examples of people who were anti-Wal-Mart who have found themselves shopping there, even if not frequently, at one time or another.

Indeed. You will find that most people who refuse to shop at (insert hated business of choice here) do not have logical cause to regularly patronize one anyway. Once you put them in a position where they would actually have to go significantly out of their way to avoid shopping somewhere, they decide their boycott isn't worth it and give up. Which renders said boycotts ineffective since the targeted business isn't really losing any customers from them.

Yep.  This.

Pretty much like when some people say they've never seen a Chick-fil-a and live hundreds of miles from one, but they're going to boycott it anyway.

Or the people that go Facebook crazy saying they're never going to shop at some store ever again because of how someone was treated, or how something was handled.  Then they're posting on Facebook that they are shopping at that very same store...the very next day.

Even places I can't stand I'll eventually go back to, after avoiding them for a while.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 20, 2016, 11:57:57 AM

Pretty much like when some people say they've never seen a Chick-fil-a and live hundreds of miles from one, but they're going to boycott it anyway.

Or the people that go Facebook crazy saying they're never going to shop at some store ever again because of how someone was treated, or how something was handled.  Then they're posting on Facebook that they are shopping at that very same store...the very next day.

Even places I can't stand I'll eventually go back to, after avoiding them for a while.

CFA makes me sicker than cheap Chinese food.


It's so ironic with Wal-Mart that so many of their Accociates appear to be on Welfare, while those who vehemently oppose Welfare "handouts" seem to have no problem with Associates being paid shit wages.

I don't think there's much evidence to support the idea that most people who boycott something only do so until it impacts their convenience.  I think the truth is more like most people don't boycott things.

I also don't know many people anymore who eschew Wal-Mart on principle.  This was common 20, 25 years ago, when there was a regular progress of Wal-Marts opening, undercutting small businesses, shaking down suppliers for lower prices, and driving manufacturing abroad because things could not be made here at a price that Wal-Mart would pay.  This is now the rule, and while Wal-Mart was a pioneer, there are businesses in every sector who have wiped out their own competition. 

To not shop at Wal-Mart on principle nowadays requires shopping very few places to uphold that principle.  While there is a strong buy-local reaction to the damage that has been done, not many people have any practical alternatives left.

I buy where it's convenient and practical.  If I want just milk, I'll walk to the convenience store 3 blocks away.  Or I'll drive there.  Unless it's 2am and they're closed, in which case I'll drive to a 24 hour convenience store or Supermarket or Wawa.  I have my favorite supermarket, but the other day when I tried going, the road was flooded (not due to rain, but due to high tide in an area prone to flooding), so I went to another supermarket.

In every case, notice what I wasn't saying?  "Oh, I go here because the attitudes of the employees are so much better".  I'd prefer they just around and available if needbe, but otherwise I could care less.  And honestly, regardless if I ask someone at Walmart or Shoprite, they tell me what I need to know.  I'm not looking for friendships from them.   I'd just prefer to check out myself, really. 

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 20, 2016, 12:58:09 PMIn every case, notice what I wasn't saying?  "Oh, I go here because the attitudes of the employees are so much better".  I'd prefer they just around and available if needbe, but otherwise I could care less.  And honestly, regardless if I ask someone at Walmart or Shoprite, they tell me what I need to know.  I'm not looking for friendships from them.   I'd just prefer to check out myself, really.

Notice what I wasn't saying? "Let's be friends."  There are a lot of transactions that require something in between that and simply operating buttons on a cash register, and it really helps get me out of there quicker if the employee doesn't go about it with resentment of the fact that I'm asking them to do their job.  There's an awful lot of the latter at Walmart, and it really makes what should be simple procedures way more agonizing for everyone than they need to be.

Through some short straw of fate I've drawn, my last three visits to Walmart have involved an exchange, an online order pick up, and a return. Each one of these required the involvement of an employee beyond simply standing there next to me. And each time it was as if I was asking a teenager to take time out of their personal life to do extra homework voluntarily (and no, none of them were teenagers).  The service was begrudging, slow, totally abandoned in at least one case with no explanation, and it never was my request unusual or complicated.

I have worked in retail and beyond that just have respect for people I'm doing business with, so I'm polite in all these transactions. I'm not looking for friends. I'm not even looking for someone to make me feel any better than I did when I went in. I'm just looking for the bare goddamn minimum, which yes, requires a better attitude than these.

Quote from: US71 on January 20, 2016, 12:11:31 PM

CFA makes me sicker than cheap Chinese food.

Same thing happened to me, Ill spare you the details but I was so sick I had to stay an extra day on a Delaware trip because I was really badly sick to my stomach. Even the thought of their food makes my stomach churn.

If I have a choice between Walmart and Meijer, I will choose Walmart every time. Because, in general, it's cheaper. Meijer is fine if they carry something I want or need that Walmart doesn't, but beyond that, unless Meijer has a sale, it's usually more expensive. Plus there are more Walmarts than Meijerses, so they are easier to get to, and Walmart does price matching on sale. I have noticed no appreciable difference in customer service between the two stores.

It's Wal-Mart's own fault for expanding so fast. Over the last 10 years, they've built 3 stores to serve my town of 60,000, including 2 in the last 2 years alone. It's not really necessary.

Quote from: Bruce on January 20, 2016, 11:01:50 PM
It's Wal-Mart's own fault for expanding so fast. Over the last 10 years, they've built 3 stores to serve my town of 60,000, including 2 in the last 2 years alone. It's not really necessary.

Fort Smith has 3 Stupor Centers and 2 Neighborhood Markets. One Stupor Center and one Neighborhood Market are almost the same distance from me in opposite directions, making them maybe 2 miles apart.  Our population is just under 90K

In the Oklahoma City metro, we have been seeing Walmart's death grip on the grocery sector start to slip over the past few years. Part of that is because a local chain, Crest Fresh Market, has been opening stores that are priced on par with Walmart (some things are more expensive, but enough things are cheaper that it's a wash). Another part of that is because a lot of national chains that have traditionally shied away from Oklahoma City have been giving it a second look and opening successful stores here.

OKC tends to be passed over by many national chains because their metrics don't mesh well with how the city operates. Retailers traditionally look at the demographics with a circle of a certain radius around a potential site to come up with potential sales figures. Owing to the lower population density here compared to other places, potential OKC stores are often written off as being unprofitable based on these metrics. But they don't account for the fact that OKC residents are willing to drive further distances than those in other cities to visit a destination store. The retailers that have taken a chance and opened an OKC store are amazed at how their projections are blown out of the water. Seeing this trend happen time and again has led to more retailers giving OKC a chance, and we're getting things like Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, and WinCo for the first time ever, all of which have been eating into Walmart's market share.

I do not boycott Walmart, but I do actively avoid shopping there. Walmart is usually my fifth or sixth choice; I prefer to shop at Crest for my groceries and try to source everything else from other stores. My distaste of Walmart is not solely from their business practices: I find their stores to be actively irritating to be in, because the aisles are too narrow to maneuver around other customers in, and the large warehouse aesthetic unpleasant.

I avoid Walmart for the most part, but really only to protect my car, not because of any moral or ethical issue. Our supercenter parking lot's layout is a special kind of hell. Wrecks are a several times a day occurrence.

Making it safely to a parking stall is no guarantee that you won't come back out to find damage on your car. I have witnessed several hit and runs where people in mini vans and suvs especially just back right up, hit the car behind them and drive right off without hesitation. Then there was the time when I used to park with everyone else that some woman just threw their door open and it hit my truck. Of course I gave her the requisite "WTF!?!?" to which the woman replied by flipped me off and storming away into the store. It was great pleasure having her charged with damage to property and watching her dragged away in handcuffs screaming about her rights.


Now, if we do go (my wife still refuses to not shop their on occasion) we park as far away as we possibly can and walk, but even that is still not a guarantee that some idiot wont do something stupid to it.  It was great fun last summer restraining my wife from stomping a mudhole in some lady's ass because they decided to use the trunk lid of her Mustang as a staging area for putting their items in their trunk.


I am not sure what it is about Walmart that attracts the dirtbags of society in droves. We have never had a problem at the traditional shopping mall across the street, nor at any of the grocery stores in the immediate vicinity-heck even the far off stores at the other end of same parking lot as Walmart.


As for the shopping experience itself, I have found that the people that work there are the same as the people that work in all of our big box stores here. I really haven't had any problems with the employees that work there, they have been as helpful as any of the others. I'm not saying they bend over backwards to go the extra mile for me, but I haven't encountered any inappropriate attitudes or anything like that, either.

Maybe the situation is worse in other parts of the country, but in this region, Walmart filled the gap created when Ames went under, Kmart pulled out of the grocery business, and a few supermarket chains (i.e. Grand Union) closed their doors and became part of larger companies, many already having a presence in the area.

The grocery aspect is an interesting one. Up until fairly recently I would have scoffed at the idea of going grocery shopping at a store that dedicates the vast majority of its floor space to things other than food. But then, up until fairly recently, I hadn't ever lived somewhere were the nearest such store was of comparable proximity to the nearest grocery store.

But now there is a Target in my neighborhood and I do on occasion find myself going there specifically for groceries because although their selection is limited compared to an actual grocery store, what they do have tends to be cheaper. Furthermore, on sale at Target means on sale. On sale at the other nearby stores means you pay full price unless you sign up for one of their stupid store cards or get a cashier nice enough to use theirs for you. This is the retail equivalent of transponder discrimination and I am not a fan.

Quote from: Duke87 on January 21, 2016, 10:38:27 PM
The grocery aspect is an interesting one. Up until fairly recently I would have scoffed at the idea of going grocery shopping at a store that dedicates the vast majority of its floor space to things other than food. But then, up until fairly recently, I hadn't ever lived somewhere were the nearest such store was of comparable proximity to the nearest grocery store.

But now there is a Target in my neighborhood and I do on occasion find myself going there specifically for groceries because although their selection is limited compared to an actual grocery store, what they do have tends to be cheaper. Furthermore, on sale at Target means on sale. On sale at the other nearby stores means you pay full price unless you sign up for one of their stupid store cards or get a cashier nice enough to use theirs for you. This is the retail equivalent of transponder discrimination and I am not a fan.

Some stores have cards but will give you the card price even if you don't have one. Tops is usually like that and I've seen it happen on several occasions at Ghetto...um, I mean Price Chopper. Or, even better, get a damn free card and opt out of the emails. At this point, many chains have apps so you don't even need the physical card to get the savings or you can enter your phone number.

Of course, I do most of my shopping at Hannaford, which doesn't have cards in the first place, so it's kind of a moot point as far as I'm concerned.

Quote from: cl94at Ghetto...um, I mean Price Chopper.

Up here, it's Tops and Hannaford that are the ghetto marts...

The Price Chopper I went to 25 years ago was dumpy.  All the ones I've been to since are nice stores with good selections.  Hannaford too.  We don't have Tops but they have seemed fairly middle-of-the-road to me.

I don't know about Hannaford but neither Shaw's/Star nor Market Basket have loyalty cards.  Stop & Shop does.  Most of the sale prices at Stop & Shop and Shaw's/Star are more expensive than Market Basket's regular price, though (even with the dope-luring gas discounts) which is the best argument there is against the loyalty card.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 22, 2016, 09:21:29 AM
The Price Chopper I went to 25 years ago was dumpy.  All the ones I've been to since are nice stores with good selections.  Hannaford too.  We don't have Tops but they have seemed fairly middle-of-the-road to me.

I don't know about Hannaford but neither Shaw's/Star nor Market Basket have loyalty cards.  Stop & Shop does.  Most of the sale prices at Stop & Shop and Shaw's/Star are more expensive than Market Basket's regular price, though (even with the dope-luring gas discounts) which is the best argument there is against the loyalty card.

Shaw's got rid of their loyalty card and clearly was targeting Stop & Shop with advertising touting that Shaw's now had lower prices every day without a loyalty card. I believe there was even someone in store when they made this change who would take your card and shred it for you.

Fast forward a couple years, and now Shaw's asks you for your MyMixx card. I assume it's just a loyalty card in a different pair of pants.

I'm clueless when it comes to Shaw's. They left Connecticut several years ago. The only one I ever go to is if I'm on Congress Street in Portland, ME, since it's not too far from their bus and train terminal. There was another one I used to go to on the Providence/Pawtucket, RI city line area, but that's gone now, too.

The Hannaford along US Route 5, in the north end of Brattleboro, VT, is actually kind of nice. The Price Chopper in the south end (also on US Route 5), was kind of dumpy, however.

Despite the fact I work at a Stop & Shop, I've only shopped at it twice this year (employees only get a 5% discount, which doesn't even cover our sales tax).

Getting back to Walmart, the only Connecticut closure I'm aware of is a supermarket-type place they opened in the Bishop's Corner area of West Hartford barely three years ago. Corbin's Corner wouldn't have been an option, since that area already has a long-established shopping plaza AND WestFarms Mall as it is.

Wal-Mart is not a factor close to Boston since they never made inroads here.  Activists kept a Neighborhood Market from opening in Somerville (in classic Somerville fashion, preferring five more years of an empty building instead), and the rest are ten miles out.  Targets, though, are everywhere, having capitalized when Bradlees and others left a lot of empty store space fifteen years ago.  Target is a nicer store, but I still have contempt for people who won't shop at Wal-Mart on economic principle yet traipse blissfully  through Target like it's not having a lot of the same impacts.

Quote from: Duke87 on January 21, 2016, 10:38:27 PM
The grocery aspect is an interesting one. Up until fairly recently I would have scoffed at the idea of going grocery shopping at a store that dedicates the vast majority of its floor space to things other than food. But then, up until fairly recently, I hadn't ever lived somewhere were the nearest such store was of comparable proximity to the nearest grocery store.

But now there is a Target in my neighborhood and I do on occasion find myself going there specifically for groceries because although their selection is limited compared to an actual grocery store, what they do have tends to be cheaper. Furthermore, on sale at Target means on sale. On sale at the other nearby stores means you pay full price unless you sign up for one of their stupid store cards or get a cashier nice enough to use theirs for you. This is the retail equivalent of transponder discrimination and I am not a fan.

Pro-tip: if you don't have a discount card and don't want to sign up, have the cashier look up by phone number (local area code)-867-5309. Someone has always already signed up with that fake phone number.

Quote from: realjd on January 22, 2016, 11:02:20 AM

Quote from: Duke87 on January 21, 2016, 10:38:27 PM
The grocery aspect is an interesting one. Up until fairly recently I would have scoffed at the idea of going grocery shopping at a store that dedicates the vast majority of its floor space to things other than food. But then, up until fairly recently, I hadn't ever lived somewhere were the nearest such store was of comparable proximity to the nearest grocery store.

But now there is a Target in my neighborhood and I do on occasion find myself going there specifically for groceries because although their selection is limited compared to an actual grocery store, what they do have tends to be cheaper. Furthermore, on sale at Target means on sale. On sale at the other nearby stores means you pay full price unless you sign up for one of their stupid store cards or get a cashier nice enough to use theirs for you. This is the retail equivalent of transponder discrimination and I am not a fan.

Pro-tip: if you don't have a discount card and don't want to sign up, have the cashier look up by phone number (local area code)-867-5309. Someone has always already signed up with that fake phone number.

I use a local check-your-voice-mail number.  If they have to look it up, there are always several people using it.

I always found these "I don't want to get a shoppers card because it invades my privacy" arguments funny.  The argument's been going on since these shoppers cards were invented, and I can't think of a single instance where someone's privacy was actually invaded.  What are shopper card server thieves going to do...list all the people that bought whole milk instead of 1%?

Quote from: realjd on January 22, 2016, 11:02:20 AM

Quote from: Duke87 on January 21, 2016, 10:38:27 PM
The grocery aspect is an interesting one. Up until fairly recently I would have scoffed at the idea of going grocery shopping at a store that dedicates the vast majority of its floor space to things other than food. But then, up until fairly recently, I hadn't ever lived somewhere were the nearest such store was of comparable proximity to the nearest grocery store.

But now there is a Target in my neighborhood and I do on occasion find myself going there specifically for groceries because although their selection is limited compared to an actual grocery store, what they do have tends to be cheaper. Furthermore, on sale at Target means on sale. On sale at the other nearby stores means you pay full price unless you sign up for one of their stupid store cards or get a cashier nice enough to use theirs for you. This is the retail equivalent of transponder discrimination and I am not a fan.

Pro-tip: if you don't have a discount card and don't want to sign up, have the cashier look up by phone number (local area code)-867-5309. Someone has always already signed up with that fake phone number.

I tried that at Haggen's once.  They refused to accept it.  I paid full price.  On another subject completely, Haggen's is in bankruptcy now.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 22, 2016, 11:42:04 AM
I always found these "I don't want to get a shoppers card because it invades my privacy" arguments funny.  The argument's been going on since these shoppers cards were invented, and I can't think of a single instance where someone's privacy was actually invaded.  What are shopper card server thieves going to do...list all the people that bought whole milk instead of 1%?

You like being on mailing lists?  Buy baby food, get on lists for everything from toys to college savings plans.  Buy pet food, get on lists for pet kennels.  Buy cheese from the gourmet section, get on lists for European river cruises.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 22, 2016, 11:42:04 AM
I always found these "I don't want to get a shoppers card because it invades my privacy" arguments funny.  The argument's been going on since these shoppers cards were invented, and I can't think of a single instance where someone's privacy was actually invaded.  What are shopper card server thieves going to do...list all the people that bought whole milk instead of 1%?

I think it's just general annoyance at being tracked, or at having to jump through this little hoop other stores don't require to get a sale price.  My CVS card is from the two someone left behind (you get three) in the store after getting theirs, so my receipts occasionally say "Congratulations, Rob!"  Some other store handed me their card and application form, so I kept both.

To show how lopsided it has become, Kroger has now become the No. 3 chain in the states - I believe by sales. They have been acquiring a lot of chains and either keeping the names intact or rebranding them. Many are loyal to a particular chain and Kroger acknowledges that, unlike Federated/Macy's.

If you haven't been in a Kroger Marketplace, they are impressive - at over 100,000 square feet, Marketplaces will contain furnishings, Bed Bath & Beyond items, along with kitchenware, small appliances and ... food.

I have seen a Kroger subsidiary brand (I forget which) with the Kroger logo and design with the former company's name.  Doesn't mean a whole lot at the end of the day.  Ahold did this with Giant and Stop & Shop, giving them both a single (terrible) design scheme, and using the brand name only sparingly.  Store-brand items don't have the store's name on them.

Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2016, 11:58:04 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 22, 2016, 11:42:04 AM
I always found these "I don't want to get a shoppers card because it invades my privacy" arguments funny.  The argument's been going on since these shoppers cards were invented, and I can't think of a single instance where someone's privacy was actually invaded.  What are shopper card server thieves going to do...list all the people that bought whole milk instead of 1%?

You like being on mailing lists?  Buy baby food, get on lists for everything from toys to college savings plans.  Buy pet food, get on lists for pet kennels.  Buy cheese from the gourmet section, get on lists for European river cruises.

Breathe and you're on mailing lists from here to eternity.  Hell, they'll even address it as "postal customer" if they don't know your name.

Quote from: Sherman Cahal on January 22, 2016, 12:08:02 PM
If you haven't been in a Kroger Marketplace, they are impressive - at over 100,000 square feet, Marketplaces will contain furnishings, Bed Bath & Beyond items, along with kitchenware, small appliances and ... food.

They're big, but I've seen the same from a grocer for quite some time now.  Meijer has the same stuff and more, starting as a grocer in 1934, hypermarkets in 1962.

I've had loyalty cards for years and never get spammed. You can opt OUT of those, you know. And if you do get any, you can always unsubscribe with ease.

Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2016, 11:58:04 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 22, 2016, 11:42:04 AM
I always found these "I don't want to get a shoppers card because it invades my privacy" arguments funny.  The argument's been going on since these shoppers cards were invented, and I can't think of a single instance where someone's privacy was actually invaded.  What are shopper card server thieves going to do...list all the people that bought whole milk instead of 1%?

You like being on mailing lists?  Buy baby food, get on lists for everything from toys to college savings plans.  Buy pet food, get on lists for pet kennels.  Buy cheese from the gourmet section, get on lists for European river cruises.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 22, 2016, 12:02:32 PM
I think it's just general annoyance at being tracked, or at having to jump through this little hoop other stores don't require to get a sale price.  My CVS card is from the two someone left behind (you get three) in the store after getting theirs, so my receipts occasionally say "Congratulations, Rob!"  Some other store handed me their card and application form, so I kept both.

I gotta say, I've never received such personalized mail from my shopping experiences. And if I did, I wouldn't be able to tell if it's the junk mail I've always gotten anyway.

Quote from: Sherman Cahal on January 22, 2016, 12:25:02 PM
I've had loyalty cards for years and never get spammed. You can opt OUT of those, you know. And if you do get any, you can always unsubscribe with ease.

Oh, sure.  I get junk mail for my grandfather, grandmother, mother, and father.  All have passed away.  Requests to take off the list are cheerfully ignored.  What do I need, a restraining order?

Sorry, my comment applies to emails. You still get that much junk mail? I don't get any from my local supermarkets.

Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2016, 11:55:30 AM

Quote from: realjd on January 22, 2016, 11:02:20 AM

Quote from: Duke87 on January 21, 2016, 10:38:27 PM
The grocery aspect is an interesting one. Up until fairly recently I would have scoffed at the idea of going grocery shopping at a store that dedicates the vast majority of its floor space to things other than food. But then, up until fairly recently, I hadn't ever lived somewhere were the nearest such store was of comparable proximity to the nearest grocery store.

But now there is a Target in my neighborhood and I do on occasion find myself going there specifically for groceries because although their selection is limited compared to an actual grocery store, what they do have tends to be cheaper. Furthermore, on sale at Target means on sale. On sale at the other nearby stores means you pay full price unless you sign up for one of their stupid store cards or get a cashier nice enough to use theirs for you. This is the retail equivalent of transponder discrimination and I am not a fan.

Pro-tip: if you don't have a discount card and don't want to sign up, have the cashier look up by phone number (local area code)-867-5309. Someone has always already signed up with that fake phone number.

I tried that at Haggen's once.  They refused to accept it.  I paid full price.  On another subject completely, Haggen's is in bankruptcy now.

Which is fairly ridiculous, as in some area codes it's a valid phone number. (405) 867-5309 is the number for the Maysville, Oklahoma high school library, for instance.

The most entertaining (fake) headline I've seen with regards to the Walmart closure is "Walmart Plans to shut down 269 stores, 14 cashiers to be laid off".

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 22, 2016, 01:33:43 PM
The most entertaining (fake) headline I've seen with regards to the Walmart closure is "Walmart Plans to shut down 269 stores, 14 cashiers to be laid off".

Given the usual lack of cashiers whenever I've been in a Walmart, I have to laugh my ass off on that one.

Quote from: froggie on January 22, 2016, 06:43:07 AM

Quote from: cl94at Ghetto...um, I mean Price Chopper.

Up here, it's Tops and Hannaford that are the ghetto marts...

Tops is a ghetto mart everywhere. When Ahold owned them, they didn't update any stores. They're independent now, but trying to pay off the debt accrued by Ahold. Many of the old Grand Union locations are crappy from when they were Grand Union.

Ghetto Chopper is a nickname in the Albany area because they have a bunch of small, old inner-city stores. The one on Delaware Avenue (US 9W) near Albany Medical Center is the worst, but Troy, Glens Falls, and a few other places have one. There are some Price Choppers around here that are the nicest store around. They're either really good or really bad.

Hannaford really varies. Most of the ones in the Capital District have been renovated and are quite nice, such as the one I shop at in Wyantskill. Always clean, always good service. The one in Lansingburgh (Troy) is quite ghetto.

Here, I shop based on sales. If something I want is on sale at Price Chopper, I can't beat the price. Otherwise, it's cheaper at Hannaford and I get it there. Walmart is a pain to get to because I have to deal with NY 7 traffic to get there or travel across town to another one.

Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2016, 11:55:30 AM

Quote from: realjd on January 22, 2016, 11:02:20 AM

Quote from: Duke87 on January 21, 2016, 10:38:27 PM
The grocery aspect is an interesting one. Up until fairly recently I would have scoffed at the idea of going grocery shopping at a store that dedicates the vast majority of its floor space to things other than food. But then, up until fairly recently, I hadn't ever lived somewhere were the nearest such store was of comparable proximity to the nearest grocery store.

But now there is a Target in my neighborhood and I do on occasion find myself going there specifically for groceries because although their selection is limited compared to an actual grocery store, what they do have tends to be cheaper. Furthermore, on sale at Target means on sale. On sale at the other nearby stores means you pay full price unless you sign up for one of their stupid store cards or get a cashier nice enough to use theirs for you. This is the retail equivalent of transponder discrimination and I am not a fan.

Pro-tip: if you don't have a discount card and don't want to sign up, have the cashier look up by phone number (local area code)-867-5309. Someone has always already signed up with that fake phone number.

I tried that at Haggen's once.  They refused to accept it.  I paid full price.  On another subject completely, Haggen's is in bankruptcy now.

Were they looking for a Jenny?

Quote from: Big John on January 22, 2016, 02:08:23 PM

Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2016, 11:55:30 AM

Quote from: realjd on January 22, 2016, 11:02:20 AM

Quote from: Duke87 on January 21, 2016, 10:38:27 PM
The grocery aspect is an interesting one. Up until fairly recently I would have scoffed at the idea of going grocery shopping at a store that dedicates the vast majority of its floor space to things other than food. But then, up until fairly recently, I hadn't ever lived somewhere were the nearest such store was of comparable proximity to the nearest grocery store.

But now there is a Target in my neighborhood and I do on occasion find myself going there specifically for groceries because although their selection is limited compared to an actual grocery store, what they do have tends to be cheaper. Furthermore, on sale at Target means on sale. On sale at the other nearby stores means you pay full price unless you sign up for one of their stupid store cards or get a cashier nice enough to use theirs for you. This is the retail equivalent of transponder discrimination and I am not a fan.

Pro-tip: if you don't have a discount card and don't want to sign up, have the cashier look up by phone number (local area code)-867-5309. Someone has always already signed up with that fake phone number.

I tried that at Haggen's once.  They refused to accept it.  I paid full price.  On another subject completely, Haggen's is in bankruptcy now.

Were they looking for a Jenny?

It sure as hell wasn't Jesse's girl.

Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2016, 11:58:04 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 22, 2016, 11:42:04 AM
I always found these "I don't want to get a shoppers card because it invades my privacy" arguments funny.  The argument's been going on since these shoppers cards were invented, and I can't think of a single instance where someone's privacy was actually invaded.  What are shopper card server thieves going to do...list all the people that bought whole milk instead of 1%?

You like being on mailing lists?  Buy baby food, get on lists for everything from toys to college savings plans.  Buy pet food, get on lists for pet kennels.  Buy cheese from the gourmet section, get on lists for European river cruises.

So fill out the card application with fake info. They can't send you mail without your address.

Quote from: cl94 on January 22, 2016, 02:02:03 PM

Quote from: froggie on January 22, 2016, 06:43:07 AM

Quote from: cl94at Ghetto...um, I mean Price Chopper.

Up here, it's Tops and Hannaford that are the ghetto marts...

Tops is a ghetto mart everywhere. When Ahold owned them, they didn't update any stores. They're independent now, but trying to pay off the debt accrued by Ahold. Many of the old Grand Union locations are crappy from when they were Grand Union.

Ghetto Chopper is a nickname in the Albany area because they have a bunch of small, old inner-city stores. The one on Delaware Avenue (US 9W) near Albany Medical Center is the worst, but Troy, Glens Falls, and a few other places have one. There are some Price Choppers around here that are the nicest store around. They're either really good or really bad.

Hannaford really varies. Most of the ones in the Capital District have been renovated and are quite nice, such as the one I shop at in Wyantskill. Always clean, always good service. The one in Lansingburgh (Troy) is quite ghetto.

Here, I shop based on sales. If something I want is on sale at Price Chopper, I can't beat the price. Otherwise, it's cheaper at Hannaford and I get it there. Walmart is a pain to get to because I have to deal with NY 7 traffic to get there or travel across town to another one.

I was very disappointed to see in my last visit to Troy that the ghetto Chopper in the Troy Plaza was gone. For all I know though it's been gone for 10 years.

Quote from: spooky on January 22, 2016, 03:39:27 PM

Quote from: cl94 on January 22, 2016, 02:02:03 PM

Quote from: froggie on January 22, 2016, 06:43:07 AM

Quote from: cl94at Ghetto...um, I mean Price Chopper.

Up here, it's Tops and Hannaford that are the ghetto marts...

Tops is a ghetto mart everywhere. When Ahold owned them, they didn't update any stores. They're independent now, but trying to pay off the debt accrued by Ahold. Many of the old Grand Union locations are crappy from when they were Grand Union.

Ghetto Chopper is a nickname in the Albany area because they have a bunch of small, old inner-city stores. The one on Delaware Avenue (US 9W) near Albany Medical Center is the worst, but Troy, Glens Falls, and a few other places have one. There are some Price Choppers around here that are the nicest store around. They're either really good or really bad.

Hannaford really varies. Most of the ones in the Capital District have been renovated and are quite nice, such as the one I shop at in Wyantskill. Always clean, always good service. The one in Lansingburgh (Troy) is quite ghetto.

Here, I shop based on sales. If something I want is on sale at Price Chopper, I can't beat the price. Otherwise, it's cheaper at Hannaford and I get it there. Walmart is a pain to get to because I have to deal with NY 7 traffic to get there or travel across town to another one.

I was very disappointed to see in my last visit to Troy that the ghetto Chopper in the Troy Plaza was gone. For all I know though it's been gone for 10 years.

There's still one in Lansingburgh. I've never been in it.

Quote from: Sherman Cahal on January 22, 2016, 12:08:02 PM
To show how lopsided it has become, Kroger has now become the No. 3 chain in the states - I believe by sales. They have been acquiring a lot of chains and either keeping the names intact or rebranding them. Many are loyal to a particular chain and Kroger acknowledges that, unlike Federated/Macy's.

If you haven't been in a Kroger Marketplace, they are impressive - at over 100,000 square feet, Marketplaces will contain furnishings, Bed Bath & Beyond items, along with kitchenware, small appliances and ... food.

So, like Fred Meyer? Kroger also owns Fred Meyer, but FM is only in the northwest. It's quite successful, so I'm not surprised they want to bring the concept to more places. Fred Meyer is probably my favorite "traditional" grocery store (as in, not Costco) to shop. Much better shopping experience than Walmart (and often better than Albertson's and Safeway too), but usually a bit cheaper than Albertson's and Safeway and such. And they have everything. WinCo is another place I like shopping. I don't avoid Walmart, but it's not my first choice, even though it's the closest to where I live.

The only store around I avoid is a small chain called Paul's Market. They burnt me with a super confusing loyalty points program. Basically, you have the loyalty card, but that's not enough to get the advertised prices. You get points for buying things, then to get certain sale prices, you have to "redeem" this points or pay the full price. It's confusing and bullshit, no other store does this. I'll just go to another store (Albertson's got rid of loyalty cards, and Fred Meyer does not affect the price you pay for things, just can save money on gas). I'm okay with loyalty cards like Safeway does (as long as you have the card, you get the sale price, always), but this is unacceptable to me.

The weird thing is that they just opened up a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market in Spring Hill, FL recently.

 

Quote
The only store around I avoid is a small chain called Paul's Market. They burnt me with a super confusing loyalty points program. Basically, you have the loyalty card, but that's not enough to get the advertised prices. You get points for buying things, then to get certain sale prices, you have to "redeem" this points or pay the full price.

Paul's kicks ass- if you're a frequent shopper you can use points to get things like milk for $.50 a gallon. It's maybe a little bit confusing for infrequent shoppers, but it's awesome. At least the one in McCall - I haven't been to any Paul's down in the valley.

I think Ridley's, anther primarily Idaho chain, does a similar program- at least they did a ten years ago when I lived in McCall. I've only been to Paul's on returns to visit parents in Idaho the last few years.

Fully agreed that WinCo is awesome, and if they ever come to Montana I will give them all my money.

All Kroger Marketplaces I've been in are a sad imitation of Wegmans. Nothing more. As far as chains using their logo, Turkey Hill (the convenience store/gas station chain) is owned by them and uses the new Kroger logo. Look familiar, Pennsylvania people (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9574363,-82.9441146,3a,41.4y,21.12h,93.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm8Nn2x5jbXcYWbn4Nhyhdg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)?

Quote from: D-Dey65 on January 22, 2016, 05:28:10 PM
The weird thing is that they just opened up a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market in Spring Hill, FL recently.

Walmart is opening a ton of Neighborhood Markets, typically in the middle of low-middle income neighborhoods. Schenectady has one. The concept is a focus area for the chain that directly takes on Price Rite and Save-A-Lot.

I rarely go in a Target. Last time was more than two years ago when I bought a wedding present for someone who had been registered there. The last time before that was a couple of years prior to that trip when they had something on sale that my wife wanted.

Target is to Meijer as Meijer is to Walmart. If you want to overpay for something, go to Target.

And as far as Kroger goes, if an item's not on sale there, it costs a war price to buy it. Their sales are decent but i you need something that isn't on sale, you're screwed. I always heard that was because Kroger is so heavily unionized. Even the part-time cashiers who are high school students have to join a union to work there.

Quote from: hbelkins on January 22, 2016, 08:20:56 PM
And as far as Kroger goes, if an item's not on sale there, it costs a war price to buy it. Their sales are decent but i you need something that isn't on sale, you're screwed. I always heard that was because Kroger is so heavily unionized. Even the part-time cashiers who are high school students have to join a union to work there.

Tops is unionized and has a similar issue. I knew a bunch of people who worked there during high school and they had to join the union. Prices are high unless something is on sale. Their main competitors (Wegmans, Price Chopper, Hannaford) are not unionized and, ironically, tend to have more pleasant employees as well as lower prices.

Quote from: hbelkinsIf you want to overpay for something, go to Target.

Whereas, in the regions I've been in, if you want something cheaper but of lesser quality and a longer time to get to it and get out of the store, you go to WalMart.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 22, 2016, 11:42:04 AM
I always found these "I don't want to get a shoppers card because it invades my privacy" arguments funny.  The argument's been going on since these shoppers cards were invented, and I can't think of a single instance where someone's privacy was actually invaded.  What are shopper card server thieves going to do...list all the people that bought whole milk instead of 1%?

For me it's not so much objection to being tracked as it is objection to being nagged. It is way too common a practice for cashiers to ask me if I would like to sign up for a store card when I have expressed no interest in doing so, which is fucking obnoxious and makes me want to say no simply to spite them.

My second reason for not wanting to take part in such programs is simply that I don't consider them to be worth the bother. The bother of having to sign up, the bother of having to either lug around those stupid little keychains or stand there reciting your phone number to the cashier, the bother of having to use a manned checkout lane because you can't recite your phone number to the self checkout, etc.
As far as I'm concerned, the inconvenience of having to deal with all this crap is not worth a modest discount here and there.

Quote from: froggie on January 22, 2016, 08:54:04 PM

Quote from: hbelkinsIf you want to overpay for something, go to Target.

Whereas, in the regions I've been in, if you want something cheaper but of lesser quality and a longer time to get to it and get out of the store, you go to WalMart.

This definitely varies regionally. As far as groceries are concerned, Target is cheaper than its competitors around here. And, like with Froggie, I am 5 minutes from the nearest Target but half an hour (or more, if there's traffic) from the nearest Walmart, so going to the latter does not make much sense regardless of their relative pricing. If I want super cheap but lower quality stuff I can go to Deals, or any number of other bargain bin type places that are all closer than the nearest Walmart.

The tags don't add that much to a keychain. All of my tags, a flashlight, and a flash drive take up less space than my keys. I don't get why so many people complain about it.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 22, 2016, 11:42:04 AM
I always found these "I don't want to get a shoppers card because it invades my privacy" arguments funny.  The argument's been going on since these shoppers cards were invented, and I can't think of a single instance where someone's privacy was actually invaded.  What are shopper card server thieves going to do...list all the people that bought whole milk instead of 1%?

I found this at https://epic.org/privacy/profiling/, but could not find the original news story online:

Quote
Supermarket profiles can be used against consumers. For instance, Von's Supermarket of California sought to introduce "loyalty card" records in a court case where a consumer had slipped and injured himself in the store. Von's wished to prove that the customer may have been alcohol impaired, and that his loyalty card would show numerous purchases of alcohol. The evidence was ultimately never introduced.

It's certainly plausible that information linked to you could be abused. The chances may be small, and you'll have to weigh that risk, but it's not zero.

I've noticed lately that a lot of businesses are joining into this rewards pool called Plenti, which means they are pooling their data.  No surprise–I figured someone was doing this anyway.

Quote from: cl94 on January 22, 2016, 02:02:03 PM
Tops is a ghetto mart everywhere. When Ahold owned them, they didn't update any stores. They're independent now, but trying to pay off the debt accrued by Ahold. Many of the old Grand Union locations are crappy from when they were Grand Union.

There's at least one in the Rochester area that's decent.  At least it was 20 years ago.  Was quite a shock when I moved to Rome and saw how ghetto the tops there was.

Quote from: cl94 on January 22, 2016, 08:29:01 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on January 22, 2016, 08:20:56 PM
And as far as Kroger goes, if an item's not on sale there, it costs a war price to buy it. Their sales are decent but i you need something that isn't on sale, you're screwed. I always heard that was because Kroger is so heavily unionized. Even the part-time cashiers who are high school students have to join a union to work there.

Tops is unionized and has a similar issue. I knew a bunch of people who worked there during high school and they had to join the union. Prices are high unless something is on sale. Their main competitors (Wegmans, Price Chopper, Hannaford) are not unionized and, ironically, tend to have more pleasant employees as well as lower prices.

Haven't closed shops been outlawed for decades?  Of course, agency fees for non-union employees in unionized employers exist, since it's not possible to be employed on a separate contract, and the non-union employees would otherwise be freeloaders.

Quote from: Duke87 on January 23, 2016, 12:56:18 AM
My second reason for not wanting to take part in such programs is simply that I don't consider them to be worth the bother. The bother of having to sign up, the bother of having to either lug around those stupid little keychains or stand there reciting your phone number to the cashier, the bother of having to use a manned checkout lane because you can't recite your phone number to the self checkout, etc.
As far as I'm concerned, the inconvenience of having to deal with all this crap is not worth a modest discount here and there.

Price Chopper and Wegmans use ones that are credit card sized and can easily be put in a wallet.

Quote from: cl94 on January 22, 2016, 06:14:13 PM
All Kroger Marketplaces I've been in are a sad imitation of Wegmans. Nothing more.

Ever go to "Market Bisto" (aka Price Chopper's flagship store in Latham)?  Same deal.  I still wonder why the rebranding is to Market32 and not Market Bisto (maybe because of the restaurant in Long Island?).  Will be interesting to see what happens to the ghetto marts as the rebranding happens.

Quote from: kurumi on January 23, 2016, 01:35:24 AM

Quote
Supermarket profiles can be used against consumers. For instance, Von's Supermarket of California sought to introduce "loyalty card" records in a court case where a consumer had slipped and injured himself in the store. Von's wished to prove that the customer may have been alcohol impaired, and that his loyalty card would show numerous purchases of alcohol. The evidence was ultimately never introduced.

Makes me wonder if they decided they didn't want to open themselves up to bad publicity for something that wouldn't have likely worked anyways (as they could only prove the purchase of alcohol, not its consumption).

I've been to Market Bistro. Obvious imitation of Wegmans. I will give their NY-style deli props though. Actually tastes right and the sandwiches are as big as they should be.

Closed shops are legal in most states.

Quote from: cl94 on January 23, 2016, 04:08:06 PM
Closed shops are legal in most states.

Half of the states, actually. The other half have right-to-work laws which outlaw closed shops.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#U.S._states_with_right-to-work_laws

Quote from: realjd on January 23, 2016, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: cl94 on January 23, 2016, 04:08:06 PM
Closed shops are legal in most states.

Half of the states, actually. The other half have right-to-work laws which outlaw closed shops.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#U.S._states_with_right-to-work_laws

Arkansas has Right to Work.

Quote from: cl94 on January 23, 2016, 04:08:06 PM
Closed shops are legal in most states.

Actually, they're not legal at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_shop

The Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Management_Relations_Act_of_1947) makes them illegal.  You instead have to have what is called a "Union Shop".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_shop  These are what is legal is about half the states.  Those states with "right to work" laws have made the Union Shop also illegal, permitting only Open Shops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_shop

Quote from: Brandon on January 23, 2016, 09:03:24 PM

Quote from: cl94 on January 23, 2016, 04:08:06 PM
Closed shops are legal in most states.

Actually, they're not legal at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_shop

The Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Management_Relations_Act_of_1947) makes them illegal.  You instead have to have what is called a "Union Shop".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_shop  These are what is legal is about half the states.  Those states with "right to work" laws have made the Union Shop also illegal, permitting only Open Shops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_shop

My apologies. The differences, while present, are minute and the intent (and effect) is the same: everyone working for more than a short time must join the union.

Technically you don't have to join at all, but you do have to pay them and are covered by the contract (because, really, the contract is stipulating what the company's pay and benefits are, and you still work for the company).  You don't get to vote on the contract or for representatives without joining, however, and since the agency fee is the same amount as union dues, there really isn't any reason not to join.  Plus there tends to be peer pressure to join; people in the union tend not to look too kindly at their non-union coworkers.

In the Great Recession, more customers went to thrift stores, dollar stores and even food banks more often than before...and less trips to the Wal-Marts when the economy was in bad shape. It's ironic there are small towns in the country very dependent on Wal-Mart, after all the big box stores closes down main streets and downtowns, shopping malls with department stores too and even drive out competitors like K-Mart or Target out of business. If a town loses a Wal-Mart, their local economy can get a lot worse, then again Wal-Mart is thought to cause negative economic issues and are blamed for other things happening after Wal-Mart opened.

Quote from: US71 on January 23, 2016, 09:03:05 PM

Quote from: realjd on January 23, 2016, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: cl94 on January 23, 2016, 04:08:06 PM
Closed shops are legal in most states.

Half of the states, actually. The other half have right-to-work laws which outlaw closed shops.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#U.S._states_with_right-to-work_laws

Arkansas has Right to Work.

Yes. Doesn't my link show that?

People often confuse right-to-work laws with employment-at-will laws. Right to work laws mean you don't have to join a union; employment at will laws mean you can be fired for no reason, but can also quit for no reason (no employment contracts).

Quote from: realjd on January 26, 2016, 10:58:53 PM

Quote from: US71 on January 23, 2016, 09:03:05 PM

Quote from: realjd on January 23, 2016, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: cl94 on January 23, 2016, 04:08:06 PM
Closed shops are legal in most states.

Half of the states, actually. The other half have right-to-work laws which outlaw closed shops.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#U.S._states_with_right-to-work_laws

Arkansas has Right to Work.

Yes. Doesn't my link show that?

People often confuse right-to-work laws with employment-at-will laws. Right to work laws mean you don't have to join a union; employment at will laws mean you can be fired for no reason, but can also quit for no reason (no employment contracts).

Wal-Mart does both. Remember when they shut down the meat packer's union? Anyone talks about union, there are immediately terminated. You be fired for no reason, but if you quit for no reason they will make your life hell with prospective employers.

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 21, 2016, 07:26:54 AM
In the Oklahoma City metro, we have been seeing Walmart's death grip on the grocery sector start to slip over the past few years. Part of that is because a local chain, Crest Fresh Market, has been opening stores that are priced on par with Walmart (some things are more expensive, but enough things are cheaper that it's a wash). Another part of that is because a lot of national chains that have traditionally shied away from Oklahoma City have been giving it a second look and opening successful stores here.

OKC tends to be passed over by many national chains because their metrics don't mesh well with how the city operates. Retailers traditionally look at the demographics with a circle of a certain radius around a potential site to come up with potential sales figures. Owing to the lower population density here compared to other places, potential OKC stores are often written off as being unprofitable based on these metrics. But they don't account for the fact that OKC residents are willing to drive further distances than those in other cities to visit a destination store. The retailers that have taken a chance and opened an OKC store are amazed at how their projections are blown out of the water. Seeing this trend happen time and again has led to more retailers giving OKC a chance, and we're getting things like Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, and WinCo for the first time ever, all of which have been eating into Walmart's market share.

I do not boycott Walmart, but I do actively avoid shopping there. Walmart is usually my fifth or sixth choice; I prefer to shop at Crest for my groceries and try to source everything else from other stores. My distaste of Walmart is not solely from their business practices: I find their stores to be actively irritating to be in, because the aisles are too narrow to maneuver around other customers in, and the large warehouse aesthetic unpleasant.

When I lived in OKC, I lived 1/2 mile from Walmart but 3 miles from Crest. However, I usually went to Crest for grocery shopping because they were better all around. Now that I live in Columbus, Ohio, there aren't nearly as many Walmarts around, and there are more choices for grocery shopping (ie. there are 3 Krogers that are closer to where I live than the nearest Walmart). I have been to Walmart exactly once in the four months I've lived in Ohio. So far, I don't really miss Walmart.

Walmart: Always low prices; no matter what the cost.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 29, 2016, 10:14:39 PM
Walmart: Always low prices; no matter what the cost.

I'm surprised Alice can afford her booze...or her museum. :p

Quote from: okroads on January 28, 2016, 11:13:51 AM


When I lived in OKC, I lived 1/2 mile from Walmart but 3 miles from Crest. However, I usually went to Crest for grocery shopping because they were better all around. Now that I live in Columbus, Ohio, there aren't nearly as many Walmarts around, and there are more choices for grocery shopping (ie. there are 3 Krogers that are closer to where I live than the nearest Walmart). I have been to Walmart exactly once in the four months I've lived in Ohio. So far, I don't really miss Walmart.

Wal-Mart came to Columbus very late (early-mid-2000s), so Meijer and Kroger had such a massive head start here it was hard for them to do much. At the same time Big Bear and Big Bear Plus shut down Giant Eagle moved in. Even in the surrounding cities only Circleville had a Wal-Mart that had been open a long time (early '90s) to my knowledge (I don't know much about Delaware, Newark, London and Washington CH). Wal-Mart is actually scared of Meijer.

Quote from: GCrites80s on February 02, 2016, 11:10:27 PM

Quote from: okroads on January 28, 2016, 11:13:51 AM


When I lived in OKC, I lived 1/2 mile from Walmart but 3 miles from Crest. However, I usually went to Crest for grocery shopping because they were better all around. Now that I live in Columbus, Ohio, there aren't nearly as many Walmarts around, and there are more choices for grocery shopping (ie. there are 3 Krogers that are closer to where I live than the nearest Walmart). I have been to Walmart exactly once in the four months I've lived in Ohio. So far, I don't really miss Walmart.

Wal-Mart came to Columbus very late (early-mid-2000s), so Meijer and Kroger had such a massive head start here it was hard for them to do much. At the same time Big Bear and Big Bear Plus shut down Giant Eagle moved in. Even in the surrounding cities only Circleville had a Wal-Mart that had been open a long time (early '90s) to my knowledge (I don't know much about Delaware, Newark, London and Washington CH). Wal-Mart is actually scared of Meijer.

I moved to Columbus in 2003 and the only Walmarts then were Easton and Reynoldsburg, possibly a couple on the west side (but I was never there until later). Canal Winchester opened in 2004 or so. Whitehall opened 2006-2007. Every store there is a Supercenter and always was. Meijer is typically nicer than Walmart, but we wouldn't get fresh meat at either because they put in fillers.

Giant Eagle got many of Big Bear's old stores, but they didn't take over the Whitehall locations, so there's a huge hole in their coverage. Main reason why we didn't shop there for everything.

For the size of the city, it's amazing how few chains it has. 2 classic supermarkets and 2 hypermarkets. The Albany/Glens Falls area, which wasn't that much smaller than the Columbus area before their population boom, got Walmart in the early-mid 90s - when Ames and KMart were still all over the place, the latter of which had a couple of "super K centers". This place is still oversaturated with stuff.

Quote from: GCrites80s on February 02, 2016, 11:10:27 PM
Wal-Mart came to Columbus very late (early-mid-2000s), so Meijer and Kroger had such a massive head start here it was hard for them to do much. At the same time Big Bear and Big Bear Plus shut down Giant Eagle moved in. Even in the surrounding cities only Circleville had a Wal-Mart that had been open a long time (early '90s) to my knowledge (I don't know much about Delaware, Newark, London and Washington CH). Wal-Mart is actually scared of Meijer.

Delaware's was built in 1993 and is still a non-supercenter.  Walmart purchased land in 2007 at US 23 & Cheshire Rd for a new supercenter, but those plans were cancelled in 2008.
http://www.thisweeknews.com/content/stories/2011/10/02/Cheshire-Road-Walmart-nixed-during-economic-downturn.html

Quote from: cl94 on February 02, 2016, 11:37:57 PM

I moved to Columbus in 2003 and the only Walmarts then were Easton and Reynoldsburg, possibly a couple on the west side (but I was never there until later).

Ah there was a Wal-Mart on Hillard-Rome Rd. by 1999. The current Super Wal-Mart was actually a regular Wal-Mart with a Sam's Club next to it. They merged the Wal-Mart and the Sam's Club to make a Super Wal-Mart and opened a new Sam's Club on the other side of the road a few years later. There was an on-road R/C track in the the Sam's Club parking lot that got the boot when they made it a Super Wal-Mart. The Wal-Mart also had a McDonald's in it which made it a double Evil Empire.

I find it funny that folks here can remember one hundred (or more) route numbers with their termini but can't think of a long-discarded or a fake phone number?

I do this for nearly anything that doesn't actually require a call-back, because it's easy and if anyone wants to bother me, they're going to get a wrong number.

Quote from: formulanone on February 03, 2016, 11:30:28 PM
I find it funny that folks here can remember one hundred (or more) route numbers with their termini but can't think of a long-discarded or a fake phone number?

I do this for nearly anything that doesn't actually require a call-back, because it's easy and if anyone wants to bother me, they're going to get a wrong number.

I give places my parents' landline number. They got rid of landline service a year ago.

Quote from: formulanone on February 03, 2016, 11:30:28 PM
I find it funny that folks here can remember one hundred route numbers with their termini but can't think of a long-discarded or a fake phone number?

I do this for nearly anything that doesn't actually require a call-back, because it's easy and if anyone overhears me, they're going to get a wrong number.

Not exactly relevant, but here's a few

521-3011 Pizza Hut
443-7777 King Pizza
521-8463 Time/Temp
328-7448  Eat $hit
867-5309  Jenny
443-4247
479-5015 (old home phones)
866-6456 (old GF)

I also don't want to give a phone number that might have been reassigned to some unfortunate stranger.

Quote from: US71 on February 03, 2016, 11:38:00 PM

Quote from: formulanone on February 03, 2016, 11:30:28 PM
I find it funny that folks here can remember one hundred route numbers with their termini but can't think of a long-discarded or a fake phone number?

I do this for nearly anything that doesn't actually require a call-back, because it's easy and if anyone overhears me, they're going to get a wrong number.

Not exactly relevant, but here's a few

521-3011 Pizza Hut
443-7777 King Pizza
521-8463 Time/Temp
328-7448  Eat $hit
867-5309  Jenny
443-4247
479-5015 (old home phones)
866-6456 (old GF)

634-5789 Soulsville
BEechwood-45789 Call me and have a date any old time.
36-24-36 Dirty deeds done dirt cheap.

OK, who pinned this thread, and why?

Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2016, 05:01:32 PM
OK, who pinned this thread, and why?

It was at the top of the off-topic board all the time anyways. I too am pretty confused.

454-2020 (Celino and Barnes, before they switched their number to all 8s to jump on a bandwagon started when another business got a number with all 5s; only reason I remember it is because the jingle in their ads fits better with their old number)

how strange of a discussion, everyone's listing phone numbers.

Quote from: vdeane on February 04, 2016, 07:22:57 PM
454-2020 (Celino and Barnes, before they switched their number to all 8s to jump on a bandwagon started when another business got a number with all 5s; only reason I remember it is because the jingle in their ads fits better with their old number)

854- was their Buffalo number, 621- was the NYC number. I have no idea what the LA number was. 444-4444 is William Mattar statewide. They had the "all one digit" number first and, as the main statewide competitor, were probably seen as having an advantage.

867-5309 is a hot commodity.  We have the taxi to hell (666-6666) and the taxi to heaven (777-7777) in my area.

Quote from: jakeroot on February 04, 2016, 07:03:31 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2016, 05:01:32 PM
OK, who pinned this thread, and why?

It was at the top of the off-topic board all the time anyways. I too am pretty confused.

I don't know why it was either.  I'm un-pinning it.

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 04, 2016, 10:17:43 PM
867-5309 is a hot commodity.  We have the taxi to hell (666-6666) and the taxi to heaven (777-7777) in my area.

:thumbsup:

Quote from: noelbotevera on February 04, 2016, 07:31:42 PM
how strange of a discussion, everyone's listing phone numbers.

We should probably split this, no? ;)

Quote from: US71 on February 05, 2016, 09:45:51 PM

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 04, 2016, 10:17:43 PM
867-5309 is a hot commodity.  We have the taxi to hell (666-6666) and the taxi to heaven (777-7777) in my area.

:thumbsup:

Our version of Jenny is used as a marketing ploy (http://alloveralbany.com/archive/2009/06/30/518-867-5309)

Quote from: US71 on February 05, 2016, 09:46:55 PM

Quote from: noelbotevera on February 04, 2016, 07:31:42 PM
how strange of a discussion, everyone's listing phone numbers.

We should probably split this, no? ;)

Agreed. Because somewhere along the line, someone's gonna list a phone number to a parking space (but in all seriousness, thread was derailed, this is nonsense).

Wal-Mart shuts down 269 stores...everyone has an opinion.

Old Country Buffet closes 77 restaurants...no one says a word.

What is wrong with this world??!!

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 05, 2016, 10:03:28 PM
Wal-Mart shuts down 269 stores...everyone has an opinion.

Old Country Buffet closes 77 restaurants...no one says a word.

What is wrong with this world??!!

I haven't been to an OCB in nearly 5 years. Too expensive for miserable food and it really hasn't crossed my mind at all. Walmart, on the other hand, is somewhere you either shop at or consciously avoid.

Quote from: cl94 on February 05, 2016, 10:06:44 PM
Walmart, on the other hand, is somewhere you either shop at or consciously avoid.

Only when I'm visiting somewhere.  There's no Walmart super close to my home.

Almost all the former Old Country and Hometown Buffets in my area were replaced with Buffalo Wild Wings.

Quote from: cl94Walmart, on the other hand, is somewhere you either shop at or consciously avoid.

Or neither, if you're an hour-plus from the nearest WalMart.

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 05, 2016, 10:37:41 PM
Almost all the former Old Country and Hometown Buffets in my area were replaced with Buffalo Wild Wings.

The one near me was replaced with a Chinese buffet/hibachi, but still uses the OCB furniture and probably some of its equipment. There's even still an OCB logo on one of the windows.

Quote from: Takumi on February 06, 2016, 12:21:04 PM

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 05, 2016, 10:37:41 PM
Almost all the former Old Country and Hometown Buffets in my area were replaced with Buffalo Wild Wings.

The one near me was replaced with a Chinese buffet/hibachi, but still uses the OCB furniture and probably some of its equipment. There's even still an OCB logo on one of the windows.

A Chinese Buffet took over a Ryan's in Springfield, MO until they got in trouble with the health department. It has since been replaced by ...a Chinese Buffet.

Washington Post: What happens to a tiny town when Walmart disappears? - A pullback from underperforming stores has left some rural communities without a vital source of support. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/05/what-happens-to-a-tiny-town-when-walmart-disappears/)

QuoteKIMBALL, W. Va. – To hear Mary Francis Matney tell it, Walmart didn't kill the once-vibrant cluster of shops next to a railroad and a creek in the faded old coal town of Kimball, W. Va. – the disappearance of the mines had pretty well taken care of that already. But now that Walmart's leaving, too, as one of 154 U.S. stores the company closed in January, the town might be snuffed out for good.

Quote"It makes everyone so downhearted they don't know what to do,"  said Matney, 60, browsing the half-empty shelves of Kimball's massive Supercenter, leaning on her cart, which contains a dustbuster and door crack insulation. Her husband once worked in the coal mines. Now the couple lives on what little they get from Medicare and Social Security, and with precious few other options she made the hour-and-a-half trip from her home back in the "hollers"  once a month to stock up.

Quote"It's like we're a forgotten bunch of people,"  said Matney, her long gray hair loosely clipped into a bun. "It's about all there was to look forward to. If we had to go any further, there ain't no way."  

Quote from: corco on January 22, 2016, 06:08:13 PM

Quote
The only store around I avoid is a small chain called Paul's Market. They burnt me with a super confusing loyalty points program. Basically, you have the loyalty card, but that's not enough to get the advertised prices. You get points for buying things, then to get certain sale prices, you have to "redeem" this points or pay the full price.

Paul's kicks ass- if you're a frequent shopper you can use points to get things like milk for $.50 a gallon. It's maybe a little bit confusing for infrequent shoppers, but it's awesome. At least the one in McCall - I haven't been to any Paul's down in the valley.

I think Ridley's, anther primarily Idaho chain, does a similar program- at least they did a ten years ago when I lived in McCall. I've only been to Paul's on returns to visit parents in Idaho the last few years.

Fully agreed that WinCo is awesome, and if they ever come to Montana I will give them all my money.

This is a long rant. If you don't care, don't keep reading.

Maybe you're right about Paul's, but that's not the way I understood it. I'll describe it best I can. I was buying a gallon of Milk. Regular Price was I think $2.39. It said something like "$1.89 with Pauls Card with point redemption". I go to pay, and it rings up full price because I don't have enough points (yes I gave them my Pauls card). $1.89 is about the price I expect to pay normally for a gallon of milk here (Albertsons, Fred Meyer, etc. are always in the $1.89-$1.99 range), but I had to pay like $0.50 more because of this confusing system. Now, if it really is possible to get deals like milk for $0.50, then I can see its upsides (no other store you'd find deals like that). I guess you'd have to watch for ads and such to find the good deals. But my experience, I was denied a price that would be standard anywhere else. Maybe I just got unlucky, I'll admit I never have run into this before (though with only a handful of trips). Not worth having to worry about though.


And with so many other stores nearby, it's not worth becoming a frequent shopper to get the occasional great deal. Most of their prices are fairly high. For example, El Monterey frozen burritos are a good snack/lunch I buy. At Walmart and Fred Meyer the regular price is about $2.50. At Albertsons it's about $3.50, a bit higher but I can tolerate it if I'm already there. At Paul's, I was going to buy some one time and they were nearly $5! Not worth it. If I lived in a town like McCall or, say, Homedale, where Paul's was the only (or one of a couple) options, it would be more worth it. But in Nampa, I see no value in going there.

As for Ridley's, never been to one as there isn't one in Nampa. There just opened a new one in Kuna and maybe if I somehow am in that area and am bored I'll check it out. Winco is pretty great, and I would go there a lot more if it wasn't all the way on the other side of town (sometimes I combine it with a trip to Costco, which works out well).

EDIT: Okay, I'll give Paul's a bit more credit. Here is their current ad (first page, image may change in the future, not sure): http://pauls.net/Kickstrap/img/weeklyAd/p1WeeklyAd.jpg It appears only a small number of deals require using the points. The rest aren't affected by how many points you have saved up. I was under the impression for a bit that most or all of their sale prices required redeeming points. In my head I was thinking "where are you going to get these points if you keep needing to redeem them!". But no, only a few things need it. That said, milk is still advertised at $1.88 with point redeption. Some of the other point deals are better, but the regular price on milk should be around there, not the point redemption price. So I'll still prefer other stores.

Okay, I'm done ranting now, that went on way too long.

CNN Money has a list of all 154 of the U.S. store closings:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/15/news/walmart-list-store-closings-in-us/index.html?iid=ob_article_footer&iid=obinsite

Of note:

- 23 states are unaffected.  Virginia is among them.

- Texas is, by far, the biggest state affected, with 29 stores closing.

- Other states with heavy impacts are North Carolina, Arkansas, and Alabama.

- Not one, but three stores closing in Wichita, KS.

Via Springfield (MO) News-Leader

http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2016/02/04/when-walmart-express-left-recent-store-closings-largely-affect-small-town-rural-america-seligman-clever-noel-anderson-missouri/79059666/

Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 07, 2016, 01:39:29 AM
Washington Post: What happens to a tiny town when Walmart disappears? - A pullback from underperforming stores has left some rural communities without a vital source of support. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/05/what-happens-to-a-tiny-town-when-walmart-disappears/)

QuoteKIMBALL, W. Va. – To hear Mary Francis Matney tell it, Walmart didn't kill the once-vibrant cluster of shops next to a railroad and a creek in the faded old coal town of Kimball, W. Va. – the disappearance of the mines had pretty well taken care of that already. But now that Walmart's leaving, too, as one of 154 U.S. stores the company closed in January, the town might be snuffed out for good.

Quote"It makes everyone so downhearted they don't know what to do,"  said Matney, 60, browsing the half-empty shelves of Kimball's massive Supercenter, leaning on her cart, which contains a dustbuster and door crack insulation. Her husband once worked in the coal mines. Now the couple lives on what little they get from Medicare and Social Security, and with precious few other options she made the hour-and-a-half trip from her home back in the "hollers"  once a month to stock up.

Quote"It's like we're a forgotten bunch of people,"  said Matney, her long gray hair loosely clipped into a bun. "It's about all there was to look forward to. If we had to go any further, there ain't no way."  

I remember a Kmart out in the middle of nowhere on US 52 in the Kimball/Welch vicinity the first time I drove that road. I think it closed the next time I passed through that area. Walmart moved in after Kmart left, because I don't remember ever seeing a Walmart.

Quote
The one near me was replaced with a Chinese buffet/hibachi, but still uses the OCB furniture and probably some of its equipment. There's even still an OCB logo on one of the windows.

I'm pretty sure the profit margin on Chinese buffet/food court food is sky-high. That's why you see so many of those places soldier on where others can't make it as long as they mind their Ps and Qs.

Quote from: GCrites80s on February 02, 2016, 11:10:27 PM

Quote from: okroads on January 28, 2016, 11:13:51 AM


When I lived in OKC, I lived 1/2 mile from Walmart but 3 miles from Crest. However, I usually went to Crest for grocery shopping because they were better all around. Now that I live in Columbus, Ohio, there aren't nearly as many Walmarts around, and there are more choices for grocery shopping (ie. there are 3 Krogers that are closer to where I live than the nearest Walmart). I have been to Walmart exactly once in the four months I've lived in Ohio. So far, I don't really miss Walmart.

Wal-Mart came to Columbus very late (early-mid-2000s), so Meijer and Kroger had such a massive head start here it was hard for them to do much. At the same time Big Bear and Big Bear Plus shut down Giant Eagle moved in. Even in the surrounding cities only Circleville had a Wal-Mart that had been open a long time (early '90s) to my knowledge (I don't know much about Delaware, Newark, London and Washington CH). Wal-Mart is actually scared of Meijer.

That's interesting how Walmart didn't really come to this area until recently. Of course, I'm used to OKC being "Walmart test market central" where seemingly every shopping center development has a Walmart in it. A new supercenter is being built at I-44 & SW 104th in OKC which will highly impact traffic at that interchange, which has not been improved much (if any) since it was built before I-44 was extended in 1982.

There's a Wegman's and Trader Joe's in State College..and a Walmart. However, we did our shopping at Wegman's and Trader Joe's because Wegman's just had so much variety that I prefer it over Walmart. However, the markups are high as a space shuttle.

Quote from: doorknob60 on February 07, 2016, 04:57:06 AM
And with so many other stores nearby, it's not worth becoming a frequent shopper to get the occasional great deal. Most of their prices are fairly high. For example, El Monterey frozen burritos are a good snack/lunch I buy. At Walmart and Fred Meyer the regular price is about $2.50. At Albertsons it's about $3.50, a bit higher but I can tolerate it if I'm already there. At Paul's, I was going to buy some one time and they were nearly $5! Not worth it. If I lived in a town like McCall or, say, Homedale, where Paul's was the only (or one of a couple) options, it would be more worth it. But in Nampa, I see no value in going there.

You're getting ripped off at all those places.  I only pay $1 for them @ Giant Eagle. (I can post a picture later if you don't believe me.)

Quote from: noelbotevera on February 10, 2016, 04:41:54 PM
There's a Wegman's and Trader Joe's in State College..and a Walmart. However, we did our shopping at Wegman's and Trader Joe's because Wegman's just had so much variety that I prefer it over Walmart. However, the markups are high as a space shuttle.

Try Aldi's

Quote from: US71 on February 11, 2016, 08:04:00 PM

Quote from: noelbotevera on February 10, 2016, 04:41:54 PM
There's a Wegman's and Trader Joe's in State College..and a Walmart. However, we did our shopping at Wegman's and Trader Joe's because Wegman's just had so much variety that I prefer it over Walmart. However, the markups are high as a space shuttle.

Try Aldi's

Aldi runs roughly on the Trader Joe's model (I believe they share an owner)–small store that carries one or few varieties of most of its products.  But while Trader Joe's aims for a high quality level while maintaining a fairly average price point, Aldi seems to go for a very bargain-basement price point and level of refinement.

We have the luxury of Market Basket here, which means that for very low prices I don't have to go for Aldi generics or Costco volume.  It's a wonderful thing.

If I had a choice between Wegman's and Walmart, I'd split my shopping between can't-screw-it-up staples at Walmart and quality-intensive fresh ingredients at Wegman's.

Wegman's is nice, and really kills it on selection (Taylor ham in Massachusetts!) but the prices are often kind of ridiculous and require some careful shopping.


iPhone

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2016, 09:04:09 PM

Quote from: US71 on February 11, 2016, 08:04:00 PM

Quote from: noelbotevera on February 10, 2016, 04:41:54 PM
There's a Wegman's and Trader Joe's in State College..and a Walmart. However, we did our shopping at Wegman's and Trader Joe's because Wegman's just had so much variety that I prefer it over Walmart. However, the markups are high as a space shuttle.

Try Aldi's

Aldi runs roughly on the Trader Joe's model (I believe they share an owner)–small store that carries one or few varieties of most of its products.  But while Trader Joe's aims for a high quality level while maintaining a fairly average price point, Aldi seems to go for a very bargain-basement price point and level of refinement.

We have the luxury of Market Basket here, which means that for very low prices I don't have to go for Aldi generics or Costco volume.  It's a wonderful thing.

If I had a choice between Wegman's and Walmart, I'd split my shopping between can't-screw-it-up staples at Walmart and quality-intensive fresh ingredients at Wegman's.

Wegman's is nice, and really kills it on selection (Taylor ham in Massachusetts!) but the prices are often kind of ridiculous and require some careful shopping.


iPhone

They do share an owner. I don't like to shop at either.

Something Wegmans will have to do as they continue to expand is pay careful attention to their prices. In their home market of western Upstate New York, their only real competitor is Tops, whose prices are through the roof. Price Chopper competes along I-81 and their prices are no better. Often, the Wegmans store brand is as good as the national brand, but there are times where the prices are ridiculous compared to other places. You mention the selection and that must be something they do better elsewhere, as the New York stores have quite the limited selection for most products.

Could be.  The stores I've been to here are around 135,000 square feet.  I know this is a lot larger than some I've seen in New York and Pennsylvania (with the notable exception of the flagship in Pittsford, New York).

Good beer prices, too.  My soft spot for Southern Tier can be satisfied for under $10 a six pack, which is a couple of bucks cheaper than the locals.


iPhone

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2016, 09:23:49 PM
Could be.  The stores I've been to here are around 135,000 square feet.  I know this is a lot larger than some I've seen in New York and Pennsylvania (with the notable exception of the flagship in Pittsford, New York).

Good beer prices, too.  My soft spot for Southern Tier can be satisfied for under $10 a six pack, which is a couple of bucks cheaper than the locals.


iPhone

The flagship is the only store close to that size in the "traditional" market area. Very few have a sit-down restaurant (there are 3 including the flagship). I've yet to find a store in this part of the state that has the beer selection of Wegmans (or Tops, for that matter), either. The Price Chopper flagship ("Ghetto Bistro") has that selection, but that's only one location. Don't even get me started on Hannaford's miserable beer selection.

Quote from: cl94 on February 11, 2016, 09:52:10 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2016, 09:23:49 PM
Could be.  The stores I've been to here are around 135,000 square feet.  I know this is a lot larger than some I've seen in New York and Pennsylvania (with the notable exception of the flagship in Pittsford, New York).

Good beer prices, too.  My soft spot for Southern Tier can be satisfied for under $10 a six pack, which is a couple of bucks cheaper than the locals.


iPhone

The flagship is the only store close to that size in the "traditional" market area. Very few have a sit-down restaurant (there are 3 including the flagship). I've yet to find a store in this part of the state that has the beer selection of Wegmans (or Tops, for that matter), either. The Price Chopper flagship ("Ghetto Bistro") has that selection, but that's only one location. Don't even get me started on Hannaford's miserable beer selection.

There are a few larger stores in NY besides Pittsford.  Calkins Rd, DeWitt, and Canandaigua come to mind.

I can only hope that the Market 32 rebranding improves the rest of the Price Choppers to be more like Market Bisto in a way besides the color pallette, but I'm not holding my breath (and if they were going to rebrand them all, why not make Market Bistro part of Market 32 or all the Market 32s Market Bistro?).

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2016, 09:23:49 PM
Good beer prices, too.  My soft spot for Southern Tier can be satisfied for under $10 a six pack, which is a couple of bucks cheaper than the locals.

Down here, Kroger serves that purpose for me. Better selection than most other stores, good prices. Most of them have a $9.99 create-your-own 6-pack that I've used to try out different beers. The one across from where I work doesn't have that, but it oddly does have some beers the others don't.

Quote from: vdeane on February 11, 2016, 11:21:14 PM

Quote from: cl94 on February 11, 2016, 09:52:10 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2016, 09:23:49 PM
Could be.  The stores I've been to here are around 135,000 square feet.  I know this is a lot larger than some I've seen in New York and Pennsylvania (with the notable exception of the flagship in Pittsford, New York).

Good beer prices, too.  My soft spot for Southern Tier can be satisfied for under $10 a six pack, which is a couple of bucks cheaper than the locals.


iPhone

The flagship is the only store close to that size in the "traditional" market area. Very few have a sit-down restaurant (there are 3 including the flagship). I've yet to find a store in this part of the state that has the beer selection of Wegmans (or Tops, for that matter), either. The Price Chopper flagship ("Ghetto Bistro") has that selection, but that's only one location. Don't even get me started on Hannaford's miserable beer selection.

There are a few larger stores in NY besides Pittsford.  Calkins Rd, DeWitt, and Canandaigua come to mind.

I can only hope that the Market 32 rebranding improves the rest of the Price Choppers to be more like Market Bisto in a way besides the color pallette, but I'm not holding my breath (and if they were going to rebrand them all, why not make Market Bistro part of Market 32 or all the Market 32s Market Bistro?).

I'd rather have the mirrors than the color scheme they chose. It's hideous. I do wonder if they'll make some of their larger locations in wealthier locations not a short drive from Latham Market Bistros as well (Queensbury, Burlington...). I have yet to be in a Market 32, but the Ghetto Choppers certainly need updating. Hell, I'd be fine if they just rebranded Delaware Avenue, Lansingburgh, Dix Avenue (Glens Falls), Lake George, Schenectady, and Menands to "Ghetto Chopper" and leave them unrenovated.

Price Chopper in general is really hit or miss. The ones near me suck, but the Queensbury one is amazing and always has been. I will mention that, while Hannaford has renovated most of their locations, Ghetto Chopper has not and the rebrand might bring them into the 21st Century.

The $9.99 six pack is a common thing. Both Western New York chains (Tops, Wegmans) have it, as does Price Chopper. Beer is one of the only things I buy at Price Chopper because they actually have decent stuff. What's nice about Price Chopper's selection is that they do a really good job of carrying at least one thing from just about all of the breweries within a couple hours (and there are a LOT).

The make-your-own-six-pack is $11.99 at Wegman's here. 

The Price Choppers I knew in Western Mass 25 years ago were the supermarket of last resort.  They were dingy and harshly lit and felt about as refined as a Costco.

When I returned to them ten or fifteen years later, all much newer stores, they were completely on par with other regional players–Big Y, Star, Hannaford's, etc.  Well laid out, decent selection, and prices on par with others in the mid-market grocery tier (no longer the bargain level).

I would have a better formed opinion, I'm sure, if I shopped there regularly, but the dozen or so times I've been to Price Chopper in the past ten years have been completely acceptable.


iPhone

Frankly, I find Price Chopper's prices to be ridiculous around here.  If I wanted to pay that much (heh), I'd go to Hannaford's, which I think is better for the prices paid.

I'd go to Walmart/Shop Rite/Aldi before ever considering Price Chopper.

...

Going back to my experience growing up in the Pioneer Valley of MA, Price Chopper was the supermarket of choice in Hadley, MA back in the very early 1980s.  That was before Stop & Shop moved to take over the Zayre space where it is now and became Super Stop & Shop.  Then, Big Y came to town and people really didn't know what to make of it until a couple of years after it opened its doors.  Now, it's quite the mainstay.

I'd bet that the customer base did go from Price Chopper to Super Stop & Shop to Big Y from, say, 1980 to the mid-1990s.

There was a local supermarket called Louis' in Amherst that was located where CVS is now on North Pleasant and then it moved and expanded in a shopping center at Amity and University.  I think Whole Foods really killed it off since its customers were basically yuppies (despite Bread and Circus being there beforehand; something different about Whole Foods must have stepped up the competition). 

Not sure how Aldi is faring there now, either.

I remember Louis'.  They became part of DeGeronimo Brothers Victory Supermarkets in the 1990s, a chain that was in turn bought out by Hannaford in 2004 or so.  The Amherst store was closed, subdivided, and is now a bar and brewpub after a stint as a gym.

That Price Chopper is now a Big Y.  I never found Big Y such a great deal, but the stores are nice.

Price Chopper bought out Big D in Worcester 20 or so years ago and is now within 30 miles of Boston.  I am sure the heavy competition here keeps them from getting much closer.


iPhone

Quote
The $9.99 six pack is a common thing. Both Western New York chains (Tops, Wegmans) have it, as does Price Chopper. Beer is one of the only things I buy at Price Chopper because they actually have decent stuff. What's nice about Price Chopper's selection is that they do a really good job of carrying at least one thing from just about all of the breweries within a couple hours (and there are a LOT).

Yeah, the Krogers here have a lot of beers from Virginia breweries (and some from other Mid-Atlantic states as well). I've only seen one Food Lion that has a make-your-own 6-pack, and the selection wasn't as good. I don't know if the Martin's (Giant) down the street has it or not.

Trader Joe's has it at least at one of their three Massachusetts stores that sell beer and wine.  The selection isn't great.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 12, 2016, 09:10:02 AM
Price Chopper bought out Big D in Worcester 20 or so years ago and is now within 30 miles of Boston.  I am sure the heavy competition here keeps them from getting much closer.

With the push to become more like Wegmans, Price Chopper might be pushing further east. Stop & Shop and Shaw's are crap.

But Market Basket kills wherever it goes, in already-crowded Eastern Mass./New Hampshire (Stop & Shop and Shaw's make this easy), and is expanding west.

To the south Price Chopper bumps into ShopRite.  ShopRite mostly competes on price, so if Price Chopper sets itself up to be another Wegman's, it will not be able to easily take on both.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 12, 2016, 12:38:15 PM
But Market Basket kills wherever it goes, in already-crowded Eastern Mass./New Hampshire (Stop & Shop and Shaw's make this easy), and is expanding west.

To the south Price Chopper bumps into ShopRite.  ShopRite mostly competes on price, so if Price Chopper sets itself up to be another Wegman's, it will not be able to easily take on both.

Price Chopper is already expanding south. They've gotten into southern Orange County, NY. They're almost to the northern extent of Wegmans' Mid-Atlantic territory. I know they're getting into New Hampshire as well. Their strategy appears to combine those of Wegmans, ShopRite, and Tops (3 of their major competitors). They have the prepared foods (albeit not as good as Wegmans) with the brand selection, card deals, and gas programs of the latter two.

From what I can tell, ShopRite is only cheap if you have their card and buy stuff on sale, which is the same strategy as Price Chopper. Main thing I get at ShopRite is cold cuts (they have Boar's Head). Would shop there more, but I don't see a point in driving past several Hannafords and Price Choppers to get to the nearest ShopRite.

I like how this thread about Walmart, a predominately southern/plains/Midwest chain, has devolved into discussion about a bunch of Northeastern chains that barely compete with Walmart.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 12, 2016, 11:31:18 AM
Trader Joe's has it at least at one of their three Massachusetts stores that sell beer and wine.  The selection isn't great.

According to Trader Joe's website, Massachusetts has 12 stores; 4 of those sell beer & wine (3 of those 4 sell spirits as well).  The main reason why the selection isn't that great is that those stores weren't originally designed/built with additional salesfloor space for alcoholic beverages in mind (MA being allowed to sell such in conventional grocery stores is only a recent thing).

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 12, 2016, 01:16:41 PM
I like how this thread about Walmart, a predominately southern/plains/Midwest chain, has devolved into discussion about a bunch of Northeastern chains that barely compete with Walmart.

LOL.  It's funny how all that works out.   :sombrero:

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 12, 2016, 09:10:02 AM
That Price Chopper is now a Big Y.  I never found Big Y such a great deal, but the stores are nice.

iPhone

Right.  That's the Big Y I was referring to in my nostalgic, sloppy writing.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 12, 2016, 01:34:37 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 12, 2016, 11:31:18 AM
Trader Joe's has it at least at one of their three Massachusetts stores that sell beer and wine.  The selection isn't great.

According to Trader Joe's website, Massachusetts has 12 stores; 4 of those sell beer & wine (3 of those 4 sell spirits as well).  The main reason why the selection isn't that great is that those stores weren't originally designed/built with additional salesfloor space for alcoholic beverages in mind (MA being allowed to sell such in conventional grocery stores is only a recent thing).

It was three for any chain by statutory limit but apparently that changed in 2012 to five (with increases to seven in 2016 and nine in 2020).  I hadn't noticed the increase.

Quote from: Scott5114...a bunch of Northeastern chains that barely compete with Walmart.

Not entirely true in some of the echelons in Northern New England...

Quote from: froggie on February 12, 2016, 04:59:23 PM

Quote from: Scott5114...a bunch of Northeastern chains that barely compete with Walmart.

Not entirely true in some of the echelons in Northern New England...

They compete with Walmart around here. Walmart's largest US store is in Albany and one of the very few northeastern Neighborhood Markets is in Schenectady...across the street from a Price Chopper. Just about every location is a Supercenter. In a saturated market that has 3 other "traditional" supermarket chains and 3 "discount" chains, they're certainly a player.

There are not Walmarts here inside 128, but they are cited as a factor in every business section article about supermarkets here, so they are clearly placing pressure on the market.

A Walmart neighborhood market was planned for Assembly Square in Somerville.  Somerville being a city with a lot of wealthy activists, the locals got the city to refuse to allow it (on what grounds I don't know).  Because, you know, Walmart Evil, Target Saintly.  But it would have been absolutely slammed with folks from the adjoining lower-income neighborhood.  The building has remained empty since 2009.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 12, 2016, 05:45:43 PM
But it would have been absolutely slammed with folks from the adjoining lower-income neighborhood.

That, my friend, is why. A lot of the anti-Walmart people are anti-poor people. In terms of how employees are paid/treated, Target is no better. For some reason, it just gets a whiter and wealthier crowd (that is often a hell of a lot more annoying than the Walmart crowd). Unless my travels bring me near a Target, I typically avoid them because the shoppers are annoying and the cashiers are slow and chatty.

I have to correct my statement: the city did not oppose the store, just vocal residents.  I was conflating this with city opposition to Ocean State Job Lot, a Big Lots type of retailer, moving into an empty supermarket space in the same poor but rapidly gentrifying neighborhood.  There the opposition, loaded heavily with vocal new homebuyers, called the store too low-quality for their expectations.  The building remains empty since 2007, presumably waiting for Whole Foods to notice it.

Quote from: cl94 on February 11, 2016, 11:40:08 PM

Quote from: vdeane on February 11, 2016, 11:21:14 PM

Quote from: cl94 on February 11, 2016, 09:52:10 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 11, 2016, 09:23:49 PM
Could be.  The stores I've been to here are around 135,000 square feet.  I know this is a lot larger than some I've seen in New York and Pennsylvania (with the notable exception of the flagship in Pittsford, New York).

Good beer prices, too.  My soft spot for Southern Tier can be satisfied for under $10 a six pack, which is a couple of bucks cheaper than the locals.


iPhone

The flagship is the only store close to that size in the "traditional" market area. Very few have a sit-down restaurant (there are 3 including the flagship). I've yet to find a store in this part of the state that has the beer selection of Wegmans (or Tops, for that matter), either. The Price Chopper flagship ("Ghetto Bistro") has that selection, but that's only one location. Don't even get me started on Hannaford's miserable beer selection.

There are a few larger stores in NY besides Pittsford.  Calkins Rd, DeWitt, and Canandaigua come to mind.

I can only hope that the Market 32 rebranding improves the rest of the Price Choppers to be more like Market Bisto in a way besides the color pallette, but I'm not holding my breath (and if they were going to rebrand them all, why not make Market Bistro part of Market 32 or all the Market 32s Market Bistro?).

I'd rather have the mirrors than the color scheme they chose. It's hideous. I do wonder if they'll make some of their larger locations in wealthier locations not a short drive from Latham Market Bistros as well (Queensbury, Burlington...). I have yet to be in a Market 32, but the Ghetto Choppers certainly need updating. Hell, I'd be fine if they just rebranded Delaware Avenue, Lansingburgh, Dix Avenue (Glens Falls), Lake George, Schenectady, and Menands to "Ghetto Chopper" and leave them unrenovated.

Price Chopper in general is really hit or miss. The ones near me suck, but the Queensbury one is amazing and always has been. I will mention that, while Hannaford has renovated most of their locations, Ghetto Chopper has not and the rebrand might bring them into the 21st Century.

The $9.99 six pack is a common thing. Both Western New York chains (Tops, Wegmans) have it, as does Price Chopper. Beer is one of the only things I buy at Price Chopper because they actually have decent stuff. What's nice about Price Chopper's selection is that they do a really good job of carrying at least one thing from just about all of the breweries within a couple hours (and there are a LOT).

I think the color scheme looks like Wegmans.  As someone who grew up on the Pittsford Wegmans and still thinks all other stores are vastly inferior, I like it.  Keeps me from going into Wegmans withdrawal when I'm not thinking about how Price Chopper's brand items are not nearly as good as Wegmans or how the selection is worse and the store tiny (my toothpaste isn't even available at Price Chopper but is at Wegmans).

Time for a road trip to Pittsburgh, Toledo or Columbus I guess.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 11, 2016, 08:02:56 PM

Quote from: doorknob60 on February 07, 2016, 04:57:06 AM
And with so many other stores nearby, it's not worth becoming a frequent shopper to get the occasional great deal. Most of their prices are fairly high. For example, El Monterey frozen burritos are a good snack/lunch I buy. At Walmart and Fred Meyer the regular price is about $2.50. At Albertsons it's about $3.50, a bit higher but I can tolerate it if I'm already there. At Paul's, I was going to buy some one time and they were nearly $5! Not worth it. If I lived in a town like McCall or, say, Homedale, where Paul's was the only (or one of a couple) options, it would be more worth it. But in Nampa, I see no value in going there.

You're getting ripped off at all those places.  I only pay $1 for them @ Giant Eagle. (I can post a picture later if you don't believe me.)

We must be thinking of different quantities. I'm talking about the 8 packs that look like this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fll-us-i5.wal.co%2Fdfw%2Fdce07b8c-6489%2Fk2-_2bdd963e-49e2-402a-a56f-c8ffe168e154.v2.jpg&hash=504ebc30489afc9e5e2491fd98e080edbbd259f3)

Walmart.com lists the price, listed at $2.47 at the closest Walmart to me (some other cities I've typed in like Bend and Boise showed up at $3.42 so it looks like I'm getting a better than average deal, even for Walmart): http://www.walmart.com/ip/El-Monterey-Bean-Cheese-Burritos-8-count/15754284

If you can really find those 8 packs for $1, I'm impressed and jealous. I think even on sale, I've never seen them below $2, at any store. But I'm assuming we're just thinking about different quantities.

I will say I've lessened my anger for Paul's now. I went back into there to buy post card stamps (there's a post office inside), and they had some good sales on some things, none of which required the use of points. So I just got unlucky that one time I guess.

Aldi is the same family as trader joes, but different brothers

SGH-I337

Quote from: US71 on February 13, 2016, 09:17:14 AM
Aldi is the same family as trader joes, but different brothers

SGH-I337

Yes. They split the company into Aldi Nord and Aldi Sud. The Aldi we know in America is Sud, while Trader Joe's is owned by Nord.

Quote from: doorknob60 on February 13, 2016, 03:25:06 AM

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 11, 2016, 08:02:56 PM

Quote from: doorknob60 on February 07, 2016, 04:57:06 AM
And with so many other stores nearby, it's not worth becoming a frequent shopper to get the occasional great deal. Most of their prices are fairly high. For example, El Monterey frozen burritos are a good snack/lunch I buy. At Walmart and Fred Meyer the regular price is about $2.50. At Albertsons it's about $3.50, a bit higher but I can tolerate it if I'm already there. At Paul's, I was going to buy some one time and they were nearly $5! Not worth it. If I lived in a town like McCall or, say, Homedale, where Paul's was the only (or one of a couple) options, it would be more worth it. But in Nampa, I see no value in going there.

You're getting ripped off at all those places.  I only pay $1 for them @ Giant Eagle. (I can post a picture later if you don't believe me.)

We must be thinking of different quantities. I'm talking about the 8 packs that look like this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fll-us-i5.wal.co%2Fdfw%2Fdce07b8c-6489%2Fk2-_2bdd963e-49e2-402a-a56f-c8ffe168e154.v2.jpg&hash=504ebc30489afc9e5e2491fd98e080edbbd259f3)

Walmart.com lists the price, listed at $2.47 at the closest Walmart to me (some other cities I've typed in like Bend and Boise showed up at $3.42 so it looks like I'm getting a better than average deal, even for Walmart): http://www.walmart.com/ip/El-Monterey-Bean-Cheese-Burritos-8-count/15754284

If you can really find those 8 packs for $1, I'm impressed and jealous. I think even on sale, I've never seen them below $2, at any store. But I'm assuming we're just thinking about different quantities.

Yeah, the single ones for $1.  But, it's the high quality version, the Chimichangas.  They are pretty good.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 12, 2016, 05:45:43 PM
There are not Walmarts here inside 128

You obviously haven't been to the lower part of the North Shore as of late.  One exists in Salem (along Highland Ave./MA 107), in Lynn along the Lynnway (MA 1A), and there's a brand new one in Saugus along US 1.

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 15, 2016, 04:16:20 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 12, 2016, 05:45:43 PM
There are not Walmarts here inside 128

You obviously haven't been to the lower part of the North Shore as of late.  One exists in Salem (along Highland Ave./MA 107), in Lynn along the Lynnway (MA 1A), and there's a brand new one in Saugus along US 1.

Actually, what I did was mentally place those places outside 128, even though I was at the Saugus Walmart a couple of months ago. I believe I mentioned in some thread recently how it took 30 minutes in that store just to pick up something I had ordered online.  Even a brand spanking new Walmart still comes with the same old Walmart work ethic.

Funny you say that, because the last time I went to the Norman Walmart I had a weirdly positive experience. It was half past midnight, and a stock guy actually stopped what he was doing to help us get something that hadn't been restocked yet and have a little chat with us. Then when we went to the self checkout area the attendant running it was uncharacteristically cheery and helpful. I commented to my fiancee that apparently their raises had kicked in or something.

Well shit, speaking of stores closing, Paul's Market is closing the Nampa and Caldwell stores, and the remaining stores to be turned into Albertson's. Less competition is never a good thing, so this is sad. And the anchor of the shopping center on 12th Ave that I pass regularly closing will be bad, and look worse visually. http://www.idahopress.com/members/paul-s-market-to-close-stores-reaches-deal-with-albertsons/article_28502447-b498-5b96-8cbf-f7805b3b7afa.html

Quote from: doorknob60 on February 16, 2016, 03:37:20 AM
Well shit, speaking of stores closing, Paul's Market is closing the Nampa and Caldwell stores, and the remaining stores to be turned into Albertson's. Less competition is never a good thing, so this is sad. And the anchor of the shopping center on 12th Ave that I pass regularly closing will be bad, and look worse visually. http://www.idahopress.com/members/paul-s-market-to-close-stores-reaches-deal-with-albertsons/article_28502447-b498-5b96-8cbf-f7805b3b7afa.html

As long as they're part of a chain, it shouldn't matter much.  Sales run chain-wide, and regular prices should be the same as well.  If a store had no competition across a wide area (say, an entire city or state) you may see higher prices as a result of no competition, but the lack of competition within a single town won't affect prices too much.  Service is always dependent on management and how much they train and instruct their employees to actually service the customer.  Many times, stores close because their competitors provided that necessary service and the customers went there instead, and it's doubtful that service aspect would suddenly change because they're the only guy in town.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 16, 2016, 06:15:13 AM

Quote from: doorknob60 on February 16, 2016, 03:37:20 AM
Well shit, speaking of stores closing, Paul's Market is closing the Nampa and Caldwell stores, and the remaining stores to be turned into Albertson's. Less competition is never a good thing, so this is sad. And the anchor of the shopping center on 12th Ave that I pass regularly closing will be bad, and look worse visually. http://www.idahopress.com/members/paul-s-market-to-close-stores-reaches-deal-with-albertsons/article_28502447-b498-5b96-8cbf-f7805b3b7afa.html

As long as they're part of a chain, it shouldn't matter much.  Sales run chain-wide, and regular prices should be the same as well.  If a store had no competition across a wide area (say, an entire city or state) you may see higher prices as a result of no competition, but the lack of competition within a single town won't affect prices too much.  Service is always dependent on management and how much they train and instruct their employees to actually service the customer.  Many times, stores close because their competitors provided that necessary service and the customers went there instead, and it's doubtful that service aspect would suddenly change because they're the only guy in town.

Not necessarily. Some sales are regional to better compete with the stores in a particular region.

Quote from: cl94 on February 16, 2016, 02:13:19 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 16, 2016, 06:15:13 AM

Quote from: doorknob60 on February 16, 2016, 03:37:20 AM
Well shit, speaking of stores closing, Paul's Market is closing the Nampa and Caldwell stores, and the remaining stores to be turned into Albertson's. Less competition is never a good thing, so this is sad. And the anchor of the shopping center on 12th Ave that I pass regularly closing will be bad, and look worse visually. http://www.idahopress.com/members/paul-s-market-to-close-stores-reaches-deal-with-albertsons/article_28502447-b498-5b96-8cbf-f7805b3b7afa.html

As long as they're part of a chain, it shouldn't matter much.  Sales run chain-wide, and regular prices should be the same as well.  If a store had no competition across a wide area (say, an entire city or state) you may see higher prices as a result of no competition, but the lack of competition within a single town won't affect prices too much.  Service is always dependent on management and how much they train and instruct their employees to actually service the customer.  Many times, stores close because their competitors provided that necessary service and the customers went there instead, and it's doubtful that service aspect would suddenly change because they're the only guy in town.

Not necessarily. Some sales are regional to better compete with the stores in a particular region.

Sales circulars for most large supermarket chains in this area are limited to a select group of stores.  Market Basket issues a chain-wide circular. 

True...maybe I should've limited my comment to ads in a more regional area (ie: You're not going to find ads for nationwide chains in the PA/NJ area that features alcohol on sale). 

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 16, 2016, 02:59:59 PM
True...maybe I should've limited my comment to ads in a more regional area (ie: You're not going to find ads for nationwide chains in the PA/NJ area that features alcohol on sale).

Even there, you get chains like ShopRite (really a collective of smaller companies) that may issue circulars that only cover their ownership's territory. 

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2016, 07:51:16 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 16, 2016, 02:59:59 PM
True...maybe I should've limited my comment to ads in a more regional area (ie: You're not going to find ads for nationwide chains in the PA/NJ area that features alcohol on sale).

Even there, you get chains like ShopRite (really a collective of smaller companies) that may issue circulars that only cover their ownership's territory.

And then you get Hannaford. My circular covers four counties (the core of the Albany metro area). People commute into Albany from other ad regions.

Tops, on the other hand, seems to only have 2 for the whole chain: one for PA and west of Syracuse, one for the former Grand Union stores (and that's only because the latter don't have the facilities that are found in the main market stores).

Speaking of closing stores, and Shop Rite, does PathMark still have any stores left open?  I know their parent corporation Supermarkets General was in bankruptcy which caused Rickel Home Centers to close all their stores, but I do remember some at the time staying open.  However the market has changed in the past twenty years, and was wondering if Pathmark still managed to keep what few stores they had as their capital is not there to compete with modern times.

Also, if they are is actor James Karen still doing their commercials?

One of my local Wal-Mart's is expanding/remodeling. IMO, the "losing money" was just an excuse

Quote from: roadman65 on February 16, 2016, 08:04:47 PM
Speaking of closing stores, and Shop Rite, does PathMark still have any stores left open?  I know their parent corporation Supermarkets General was in bankruptcy which caused Rickel Home Centers to close all their stores, but I do remember some at the time staying open.  However the market has changed in the past twenty years, and was wondering if Pathmark still managed to keep what few stores they had as their capital is not there to compete with modern times.

Also, if they are is actor James Karen still doing their commercials?

First of all, Supermarkets General (a former constituent company of ShopRite) was bought by A&P in 2007.  They went out of business last year.  Too bad–Pathmark was a better store.

James Karen is 92.  It's been a few years since I spent time down there, but I haven't seen him in ads since many years ago.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2016, 08:45:02 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 16, 2016, 08:04:47 PM
Speaking of closing stores, and Shop Rite, does PathMark still have any stores left open?  I know their parent corporation Supermarkets General was in bankruptcy which caused Rickel Home Centers to close all their stores, but I do remember some at the time staying open.  However the market has changed in the past twenty years, and was wondering if Pathmark still managed to keep what few stores they had as their capital is not there to compete with modern times.

Also, if they are is actor James Karen still doing their commercials?

First of all, Supermarkets General (a former constituent company of ShopRite) was bought by A&P in 2007.  They went out of business last year.  Too bad–Pathmark was a better store.

James Karen is 92.  It's been a few years since I spent time down there, but I haven't seen him in ads since many years ago.

Years ago yes it was part of Shop Rite.

Really, James Karen is 92.  There are some that do ads even in their old age.  Jimmy Stewart did Campell Soup commercials up to the day he died, even with studdering dialog.   Although to some of my friends he was always called Joey Pathmark as James Karen, just like Burt Mustin, Michael Ironside, Jessie White, and some other actors were known more by face then by name.

Quote from: roadman65 on February 16, 2016, 08:53:28 PM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2016, 08:45:02 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 16, 2016, 08:04:47 PM
Speaking of closing stores, and Shop Rite, does PathMark still have any stores left open?  I know their parent corporation Supermarkets General was in bankruptcy which caused Rickel Home Centers to close all their stores, but I do remember some at the time staying open.  However the market has changed in the past twenty years, and was wondering if Pathmark still managed to keep what few stores they had as their capital is not there to compete with modern times.

Also, if they are is actor James Karen still doing their commercials?

First of all, Supermarkets General (a former constituent company of ShopRite) was bought by A&P in 2007.  They went out of business last year.  Too bad–Pathmark was a better store.

James Karen is 92.  It's been a few years since I spent time down there, but I haven't seen him in ads since many years ago.

Years ago yes it was part of Shop Rite.

Really, James Karen is 92.  There are some that do ads even in their old age.  Jimmy Stewart did Campell Soup commercials up to the day he died, even with studdering dialog.   Although to some of my friends he was always called Joey Pathmark as James Karen, just like Burt Mustin, Michael Ironside, Jessie White, and some other actors were known more by face then by name.

I don't think I've seen James Karen in anything since Any Given Sunday.  In that movie, like in every role of his if you grew up in the tri-state area, I just expected him to start in about frozen green beans.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2016, 07:51:16 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 16, 2016, 02:59:59 PM
True...maybe I should've limited my comment to ads in a more regional area (ie: You're not going to find ads for nationwide chains in the PA/NJ area that features alcohol on sale).

Even there, you get chains like ShopRite (really a collective of smaller companies) that may issue circulars that only cover their ownership's territory. 

I get two ads for Shoprite.  The stores are in different towns, with the stores owned by different groups.  The 'core' ad is the same.  The outer or inner 2 - 4 page supplement can differ, although it tends to differ more on product placement on the page than the prices.  The ads will have a few different items, usually non-grocery related (TVs, etc).