Episode 7 thoughts
I actually thought Episode 7 was very good. I've seen it 3 times now. I still think Episode 3 is probably the best one, since it shows Anakin turning into Vader, although I wish the Order 66 scenes were longer and we saw more from Anakin than him getting ready to kill younglings. Kylo Ren being Vader's grandson really didn't surprise me too much especially since in the trailers we see Kylo Ren saying he was going to finish what he (Vader) started. I'm not sure that Kylo Ren knows that Vader saved Luke in the end and died a Jedi. Maybe he does know the truth though since he does kill his father, Han Solo.
Episode 8 Wishlist (FYI Kylo Ren was saved in Episode 7 and it has been confirmed he will be in 8)
I want to see force ghosts involved in Episode 8, especially Anakin's (as Hayden Christensen). Star Wars has basically been the story of Anakin Skywalker up to this point. I read that there are rumors of his force ghost returning with a light and dark side. I hope his light side force ghost is the only one showed, since in the end I believe he did regret joining the Dark Side. Hopefully we see Anakin try to talk some sense into Kylo Ren.
As far as Snoke is concerned, I hope he is just a new character. I think it would be kind of stupid if he was Darth Plaguis, since Sidious already killed him off long ago.
We'll probably see Rey and Finn become Jedi in Episode 8, trained by Luke Skywalker. I'd like to see Kylo Ren and Luke Skywalker face off in 8 in a lightsaber duel, but I want it to end in a stalemate. I think Kylo Ren killing off Luke would be too similar to Vader killing Obi Wan, plus saving both characters for Episode 9 would make 9 that much more epic.
I'd also like to see the introduction of another villian, or maybe the other knights of Ren involved in Episode 8.
Hayden "He's more wooden now than man" Christensen? Abrams seems to have opted instead to return to actors that can act believably human. Let's hope he stays on track.
Episode 3 was the worst one as it was so predictable and relied heavily on Hayden Christensen's acting ability but gets a pass as it has the thing everyone wanted and people assumed that it can't get worse than Episode 2 (which is, don't get me wrong, a crappy movie).
Episode 2 allowed you to tune out, whereas Episode 3 (especially the first time) feels like a chore waiting for the important bits that you are waiting for that could happen at any moment, but don't for hours and hours.
Episode 7 definitely lived up to the hype and the Star Wars standard, IMO. I can almost guarantee that Luke will train Rey & Finn in 8. J.J. Abrams did not disappoint in Ep.7, so I can and will trust him with the rest of the trilogy.
I've never met anyone before who thought one of the prequels was the best of the saga. ;-)
iPhone
The third one was so bad that they actually wrote in a meeting where the surviving characters sat down at the end and hurriedly concocted half-assed explanations for all the plot lines they couldn't get to in seven previous hours of movie! Abominable! I laughed aloud in the theater. Even funnier than "NOOOOOOO!"
Jar Jar* Abrams isn't doing the sequels. Rian Johnson is taking over.
*That's clearly his name, hence why he goes by initials as almost no one likes Jar Jar**!
**Shoot me, but having rewatched Episodes I-VI last month in prep for watching Episode VII, I found Jar Jar wasn't that bad - he's no droid, sure, but he does act as a "this guy is an annoying tag along" way that C3P0 does really well in IV. He's not likeable, in or out universe, but he's not a badly written character (at least in Phantom Menace).
The reason I like 3 the best is because of all the lightsaber duels. I think it has more lightsaber duels than 4-7 combined. Three could have been so much better than it was though. I do wish we would have seen more from Anakin when Order 66 was happening.
I thought Episode 4 was by far the worse of the ones I've seen (I've seen all of them except 1 and 2). It seemed like it just dragged on and on with R2D2 and C3PO wondering the desert.
I thought 6 and 5 were both good, but I liked 6 slightly better than 5 because the empire was finally beaten.
BTW did anyone see SNL where Kylo Ren is on Undercover Boss?
For me, Episode 7 was equivalent to about a couple billion tons of trash. The beginning was good, then it declines until it gets put out of its misery.
Quote from: empirestate on January 25, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
I've never met anyone before who thought one of the prequels was the best of the saga. ;-)
iPhone
The prequels were my favorite since they delved heavily into the politics of the Republic and how the Empire emerged. After reading the spoilers on Episode 7, it looks to me like Episode 4 being redone. Big deal.
Rick
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 25, 2016, 06:14:11 PM
For me, Episode 7 was equivalent to about a couple billion tons of trash. The beginning was good, then it declines until it gets put out of its misery.
I thought it got stupid when Rey beat Kylo Ren at the end. Rey had zero experience with a lightsaber. Yes Rey knew she was strong with the force, but I mean Kylo Ren was strong enough to stop a laser beam in midair. Even an injured Kylo should be able to beat Rey. He had no trouble with Finn.
Quote from: empirestate on January 25, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
I've never met anyone before who thought one of the prequels was the best of the saga. ;-)
The prequels do not deserve the bad rap they get. They are different from the original trilogy, certainly, but they take place in a radically different time period in the galaxy, showing the dying days of a corrupt republic rather than a rebellion against an oppressive empire. With this accepted and accounted for, the movies hold their own and the common complaints about them can all be rebutted.
People wanted to see the origin story of Darth Vader the badass, and the idea of young Darth Vader being a whiny emo was entirely counter to that expectation. But for good reason: it makes sense. Darth Vader's apparent badassery is merely a smokescreen for the fact that underneath that mask is a scared little boy driven insane by a lust for power. Hell, the fact that he has a mask and never actually shows his face until he overcomes his fear and redeems himself is perfect symbolism.
People hated Jar Jar for being a bumbling idiot, but this ultimately became an important plot point since Palpatine was able to use him as a useful fool to propose emergency powers. Was it necessary for his bumbling in Episode I to be as over the top as it was? No, but at the same time, why is it a point of criticism? I, for one, never found Jar Jar to be annoying. His antics are funny, dammit.
People made fun of Anakin's horrible pick up lines, and yes, they are horrible, but from a socially awkward kid who's never kissed a girl before, do you expect otherwise? People criticise Padme for falling for Anakin, saying she should be better than that, but their relationship makes sense: both of them were denied a proper childhood (Anakin from being whisked away to be trained as a Jedi, Padme from being whisked away to become involved in Nubian politics), both of them lead crazy messed up lives and by building a relationship are attempting to create some semblance of normalcy.
People made fun of Darth Vader's "Noooo!", but, c'mon, how would you have handled that differently? Is that not a perfectly understandable reaction from someone learning that he just killed his wife who he was trying desperately to save? And remember: Darth Vader is not a macho man. He is a scared little boy. The mask merely, well, masks this.
As for Episode 7, I will gladly join anyone hating on that. The experience of seeing the movie opening night was great, but the movie itself was meh.
- The plot was quite chaotic and difficult to follow, like they tried to squeeze more into one movie than really properly fits.
- Finn and Poe become friends way too quickly for it to be believable.
- Kylo Ren is able to use the force in seemingly ridiculous and absurd ways (making a blaster bolt hover in midair? Directly reading people's minds? Yeah no).
- Rey seemingly manages to go from not knowing what the force even is to having substantial mastery of it in the blink of an eye, which not even Anakin the midichlorian-juiced messiah was able to do.
- The Godwin's Law scene was completely uncalled for. Blatant imagery of the Third Reich has no place in Star Wars, even if it accompanies the supremely evil simultaneous destruction of multiple planets.
- There was way too much rehash of scenes and ideas from previous movies purely for the sake of fanservice. We didn't need another scene in a trench to blow up a big bad spaceship. The original scene has been parodied a million times, you know your franchise has jumped the shark when it is parodying itself.
- Han has inexplicably devolved as a character, he's a smuggler again despite having wholly left that life behind by the end of Episode 6, and he's seemingly less competent at it than he was before.
- And, last but not least: George Lucas didn't write it. It was crafted by a conglomerate media corporation to be a blockbuster, not made by its rightful author as a work of art. Imagine if Apple Records decided to make a new Beatles album without either of the surviving Beatles involved. It would pretty much automatically suck, right? Well, the same phenomenon can be seen with Star Wars, except it actually happened.
Prequels will always be hamstrung by canon and everyone knowing what's going to happen.
The Force Awakens does have echos of A New Hope in that we have two characters plucked out of obscurity by events and they just happen to be specially inclined visa vi The Force. And the super-sized Death Star planet is way too familiar. But I still liked it.
It was such a rush when the opening credits rolled and we had that famously great John Williams score. After 10 years, that alone was worth the price of admission.
I liked that the death of Han Solo is significant for the development of Kylo Ren as a character. Abrams totally telegraphed it in that scene by having the light in that space suddenly cut out moments before Han gets skewered. It was an exhilarating moment between the light going out and the light saber going on because I suddenly knew what was about to happen. I'm glad I didn't know about it coming into the movie. That feeling right there was also worth the price of admission.
While I enjoyed Episode 7 a lot, I fully expect the franchise to be diluted to the point of irrelevance by those assholes at Disney. That is literally the plan. They are going to be cranking them out as fast as they can until everyone gets sick of them; exactly what they've done with all the superhero movies. Say what you will about the prequels; at least Lucas didn't shove them down our throats in consecutive years the way Disney is going to for the rest of the decade. By doing this, they are robbing fans of one of the integral experiences of the Star Wars franchise: waiting years in between installments to allow anticipation to build. Star Wars is about to become routine and ordinary just to feed the insufferable Hollywood money machine. It may come to pass that someone going to see a Star Wars movie will be shown trailers for the next Star Wars movie. Keep that in mind when you start seeing trailers for Rogue One this summer.
Quote from: nexus73 on January 25, 2016, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 25, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
I've never met anyone before who thought one of the prequels was the best of the saga. ;-)
iPhone
The prequels were my favorite since they delved heavily into the politics of the Republic and how the Empire emerged. After reading the spoilers on Episode 7, it looks to me like Episode 4 being redone. Big deal.
The political backstory was overwrought and unfocused. This probably has a lot to do with why they ran out of time to, you know, finish the story.
Quote from: Duke87 on January 25, 2016, 09:12:15 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 25, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
I've never met anyone before who thought one of the prequels was the best of the saga. ;-)
The prequels do not deserve the bad rap they get. They are different from the original trilogy, certainly, but they take place in a radically different time period in the galaxy, showing the dying days of a corrupt republic rather than a rebellion against an oppressive empire. With this accepted and accounted for, the movies hold their own and the common complaints about them can all be rebutted.
People wanted to see the origin story of Darth Vader the badass, and the idea of young Darth Vader being a whiny emo was entirely counter to that expectation. But for good reason: it makes sense. Darth Vader's apparent badassery is merely a smokescreen for the fact that underneath that mask is a scared little boy driven insane by a lust for power. Hell, the fact that he has a mask and never actually shows his face until he overcomes his fear and redeems himself is perfect symbolism.
People hated Jar Jar for being a bumbling idiot, but this ultimately became an important plot point since Palpatine was able to use him as a useful fool to propose emergency powers. Was it necessary for his bumbling in Episode I to be as over the top as it was? No, but at the same time, why is it a point of criticism? I, for one, never found Jar Jar to be annoying. His antics are funny, dammit.
People made fun of Anakin's horrible pick up lines, and yes, they are horrible, but from a socially awkward kid who's never kissed a girl before, do you expect otherwise? People criticise Padme for falling for Anakin, saying she should be better than that, but their relationship makes sense: both of them were denied a proper childhood (Anakin from being whisked away to be trained as a Jedi, Padme from being whisked away to become involved in Nubian politics), both of them lead crazy messed up lives and by building a relationship are attempting to create some semblance of normalcy.
People made fun of Darth Vader's "Noooo!", but, c'mon, how would you have handled that differently? Is that not a perfectly understandable reaction from someone learning that he just killed his wife who he was trying desperately to save? And remember: Darth Vader is not a macho man. He is a scared little boy. The mask merely, well, masks this.
You missed all of my problems with those movies.
They looked dopey. There was a great line back when the first one came out where the CG was too slick and someone supervising the animators had to go and get a box of rusty junk and tools and showerheads and things, dump it in front of them, and say "THIS is the look." Apparently he should have dumped it on their heads, because the message never quite got through.
The acting... my god. Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman gave the least relatable performances in all seven movies (yes, I'm including the Power Droid in that assessment). Acting requires a certain amount of looking and sounding like the audience isn't there. They never, ever sounded like they weren't overacting. This may not be entirely their fault–there are writers and directors involved–but the effect was what it was regardless. The first three movies, while certainty not Oscar performances, were full of off-the-cuff dialogue and reactions of surprise, annoyance, panic. The three prequels felt like every single scene was extremely careful, unnatural, and staged.
Lucas lost sight of the basics once he had a million gazillion dollars and all the technological toys in the world. He never got over the flaws of the first three, but somehow was the only person in the world that missed that those flaws were part of what made it so good. Who feels a sense of gritty desperation when everything looks beautiful and perfect, and every line sounds like it's the fourteenth take?
I'm glad Lucas is out. He made a wonderful thing but lost sight of so much of what made it so good. He trotted out Van Hagar when people wanted Diver Down.
Edit: Forgot to add, lightsaber duels are like getting laid–at first it is magical, and you remember each one because they are rare and very meaningful. When it gets to the point that you'll screw anybody that comes along, though, it's no longer interesting to anyone paying attention. It was nice to finally see something slightly different in the new one, someone who had no training at all try to use one awkwardly. But really, save your lightsaber for someone special. We've seen every one of your moves before.
I enjoyed all of them equally (except jar-jar in 1), fuck the negativity. Bring me rogue one :bigass:
Scenes I want to see in 8 and 9:
- Someone forgets to charge their lightsaber ("shit man, lemme borrow yours! I'm at 3%!")
- Someone carjacks a Death Star and flies away. The First Order gives chase in another Death Star.
- R2D2 discovers in-app purchases and demands 2 Star Wars quatloos before doing anything
- Rey listens to Wookie language tapes while flying the Falcon
- Continued use of the Force wears away an eons-ago constructed barrier between this dimension and the next. Empire and Rebels have to join together to fight a threat against all sentient life in the galaxy
Quote from: kurumi on January 25, 2016, 11:50:48 PM
Continued use of the Force wears away an eons-ago constructed barrier between this dimension and the next. Empire and Rebels have to join together to fight a threat against all sentient life in the galaxy
The Borg?
Quote from: kkt on January 26, 2016, 01:30:47 AM
Quote from: kurumi on January 25, 2016, 11:50:48 PM
Continued use of the Force wears away an eons-ago constructed barrier between this dimension and the next. Empire and Rebels have to join together to fight a threat against all sentient life in the galaxy
The Borg?
The Expanded Universe explained why the Empire built a Death Star to crush a small rebellion, and then built another one, despite the great cost - the Emperor saw a coming threat from outside the Galaxy that needed weapons of that size to defeat
Sadly it's not Canon anymore (VII erased it), but half the Galaxy's population was killed by this invasion, including all but one of Han and Leia's kids (creating the rift between them and Kylo Ren).
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 25, 2016, 09:50:53 PMThey looked dopey. There was a great line back when the first one came out where the CG was too slick and someone supervising the animators had to go and get a box of rusty junk and tools and showerheads and things, dump it in front of them, and say "THIS is the look." Apparently he should have dumped it on their heads, because the message never quite got through.
That was, by far, the worst crime of the prequels. The annoying woman sat next to me in the cinema for VII might have rudely been very noisely mocking the 'retro' aspects of it, but it looked like Star Wars ought to.
The prequels look like the the remastered original trilogy, rather than what people loved.
QuoteThe acting... my god. Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman gave the least relatable performances in all seven movies ... The three prequels felt like every single scene was extremely careful, unnatural, and staged.
Agree, I think it is clear given that many decent actors (Portman, McGregor, Jackson) are acting worse than they ever had, that there was some deliberate direction that they must ham it up (damn Lucas). Cinema Sins is right when they point out that Luke in IV was nearly as bad as Anakin in II and III and the whininess is common in both characters and may have been a conscience choice to make Anakin so annoyingly hammy.
However III shows clearly the difference in class between mediocre Christensen (and bored-out-of-her-skull-Portman) and (both decent and trying) McGregor and even if you can overlook the poor direction, telling them to ham it, you can see why it made little sense to have Christensen's acting carry the plot.
The prequels sucked. That's all there is to it.
"Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo."
*drops mic*
Quote from: english si on January 26, 2016, 07:36:14 AM
Quote from: kkt on January 26, 2016, 01:30:47 AM
Quote from: kurumi on January 25, 2016, 11:50:48 PM
Continued use of the Force wears away an eons-ago constructed barrier between this dimension and the next. Empire and Rebels have to join together to fight a threat against all sentient life in the galaxy
The Borg?
The Expanded Universe explained why the Empire built a Death Star to crush a small rebellion, and then built another one, despite the great cost - the Emperor saw a coming threat from outside the Galaxy that needed weapons of that size to defeat
Sadly it's not Canon anymore (VII erased it), but half the Galaxy's population was killed by this invasion, including all but one of Han and Leia's kids (creating the rift between them and Kylo Ren).
Only Anakin Solo was killed during the Vong War, but this did cause Jacen to start turning towards the dark side to become Caedus in the postwar era and into the 2nd GCW. I liked how they did bring that part of the EU into VII
I didn't like the latest one, it felt like all the others. All of the 80's Star Wars' introduced new characters and concepts.
Quote from: US 41 on January 25, 2016, 08:57:39 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on January 25, 2016, 06:14:11 PM
For me, Episode 7 was equivalent to about a couple billion tons of trash. The beginning was good, then it declines until it gets put out of its misery.
I thought it got stupid when Rey beat Kylo Ren at the end. Rey had zero experience with a lightsaber. Yes Rey knew she was strong with the force, but I mean Kylo Ren was strong enough to stop a laser beam in midair. Even an injured Kylo should be able to beat Rey. He had no trouble with Finn.
My thought about this was that they were trying to explain how Ren hadn't "completed" his training and still had weaknesses. For example, Chewie shot him with the crossbow blaster right after he killed Han. When the fuck has a strong Force character been shot by a single blaster bolt like that? So I think Ren while strong was still incomplete.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 26, 2016, 09:59:30 PM
For example, Chewie shot him with the crossbow blaster right after he killed Han. When the fuck has a strong Force character been shot by a single blaster bolt like that? So I think Ren while strong was still incomplete.
I take it Luke taking a shot to his right hand in the early half of Episode 6 is not counting?
Quote from: Revive 755 on January 26, 2016, 10:16:01 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 26, 2016, 09:59:30 PM
For example, Chewie shot him with the crossbow blaster right after he killed Han. When the fuck has a strong Force character been shot by a single blaster bolt like that? So I think Ren while strong was still incomplete.
I take it Luke taking a shot to his right hand in the early half of Episode 6 is not counting?
You'll remember that he left his instruction when Yoda told him he wasn't done.
Quote from: english si on January 26, 2016, 07:52:39 AM
The prequels look like the the remastered original trilogy, rather than what people loved.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect movies made circa 2000 to have special effects similar to those made using circa 1980 technology.
As for the original trilogy being remastered, well... there will forever be a generational divide on this matter. It was the first trailer for Episode I that really catalyzed my interest in Star Wars. By this point the special editions already existed, so all the remastered stuff is normal to me while the original versions of the movies look like unfinished rough drafts.
Thus, I never really got all the hubub about the modernization being so horrible, but then, I was not old enough to have any previously established conceptions for it to betray.
That said, after seeing The Force Awakens, I couldn't help but think "ah, this must be what all the older fans felt like when The Phantom Menace came out". So maybe now I sorta get it.
When nine hundred years old you are, appreciate the look and tone of the new movie you will.
At the end of the day, it comes down to this: the people George Lucas basically said it was beneath him to "pander to" have merchandise-hungry kids they want to indoctrinate in the cult of Luke Skywalker, and this new movie does just that. "Prequels" has gone from a bad word to forgotten among those with the target offspring.
Quote from: Duke87 on January 26, 2016, 11:38:11 PM
As for the original trilogy being remastered, well... there will forever be a generational divide on this matter. It was the first trailer for Episode I that really catalyzed my interest in Star Wars. By this point the special editions already existed, so all the remastered stuff is normal to me while the original versions of the movies look like unfinished rough drafts.
What a sad world you live in.
Quote from: Duke87 on January 26, 2016, 11:38:11 PM
Quote from: english si on January 26, 2016, 07:52:39 AM
The prequels look like the the remastered original trilogy, rather than what people loved.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect movies made circa 2000 to have special effects similar to those made using circa 1980 technology.
It wasn't at the time, but today it's coming very much back into vogue. In the early aughts, CGI effects were still on the ascent, since they'd only been shown to be viable technology for about a decade, starting with films like Jurassic Park (1993) and Toy Story (1995) which proved they could actually carry major elements of the story rather than being used only for specialty shots.
As the millennium changed, the trend progressed past (some would say) the point where CGI was supporting the story and entered a realm where it was creating whole new story possibilities–but this was typically because it was being used to create worlds and situations and rules of physics that were no longer recognizable to us mortals. Those young enough to have grown up only on this kind of storytelling didn't mind (I'm told younger kids actually like all the new
Transformers movies), but those of us who expect our stories to be somehow realistic did. And yes, that even applies to those stories that take place in a galaxy far, far away.
So, cue the resurgence of practical special effects, the kind pioneered by and for the original
Star Wars films, where what you see in the film is in some sense actually there, even if it's just a model or a painting or a stunt performer. This is why and how Episode 7 returns to the look of the original trilogy, and yes, it is largely for the benefit of us, the older (?) generation. I would expect to see some amount of more "modern" effects techniques used in the spinoff films, if not in the remaining core episodes.
Quote from: Rothman on January 27, 2016, 08:11:02 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on January 26, 2016, 11:38:11 PM
As for the original trilogy being remastered, well... there will forever be a generational divide on this matter. It was the first trailer for Episode I that really catalyzed my interest in Star Wars. By this point the special editions already existed, so all the remastered stuff is normal to me while the original versions of the movies look like unfinished rough drafts.
What a sad world you live in.
I have my personal problems with the editorial decisions made by George Lucas at that time, but those aside, my biggest complaint was that he was using technology that just didn't look right in the movie he was putting it in. I believe the word "Colorforms" got used a lot to describe the look of the cartoonish CGI pasted onto a 25-year-old film.
(For those too young to know, Colorforms was a toy with pieces of vinyl one stuck onto a glossy cardboard background to create various pictographic scenes.)
Quote from: Rothman on January 27, 2016, 08:11:02 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on January 26, 2016, 11:38:11 PM
As for the original trilogy being remastered, well... there will forever be a generational divide on this matter. It was the first trailer for Episode I that really catalyzed my interest in Star Wars. By this point the special editions already existed, so all the remastered stuff is normal to me while the original versions of the movies look like unfinished rough drafts.
What a sad world you live in.
Wait for it...they're the same damn movies. I don't care who shot first, the Internet cares.
I kind of prefer the remastered versions a little, but having watched them side-by-side (well, a few days apart), it's just a few minor details which have nothing to do with the plot. So why add them? Eh, I guess I just enjoyed going the theaters all over again as a twenty-something, so I hold no grudge for a few tweaks.
The most noticeable difference is that the original Episode VI showed the same damn pink blaster fire filling the entire screen eleventy-billion times which was reason enough for some refining.
Quote from: Duke87 on January 26, 2016, 11:38:11 PMI don't think it's reasonable to expect movies made circa 2000 to have special effects similar to those made using circa 1980 technology.
While, obviously, Jurassic Park was ahead of its time in effects (CGI looking almost as good as the actual puppets they had*), Jurassic World manages the feel despite being 22 years later and using state of the art Fx.
And, more blatantly, if Episode VII can capture the cinematographic feel of c.1980 films then why couldn't Episode I-III?
You'd have thought that given the strong negative response to the remastered editions of the original trilogy, that Lucas would have realised that the feel of the originals is part of what they loved and the fans don't want CGI aliens plastered in every free space. Instead Lucas doubles down with green screen and wipes galore.
In Episode I, Jar Jar bumps into Obi Wan and Qui Jon in some woods - filmed on location in some woods where I have spent a reasonable amount of time (when I was a toddler I lived right next to them, did several scouting camps there and even more hikes, etc), but I wouldn't have considered that those woods (which are of a sort that I'm even more familiar with than that specific location, because every wood around here is like that) were real, let alone ones local to me, because they look fake despite being filmed in a real location.
Sure, the originals look cheap and tacky (esp IV) and the remastered versions fix that (though probably go too far, though nowhere near as far as the prequels), but the prequels look cheap and tacky in a totally different way.
*See also Toy Story: neither early 90s film looks old hat today as there's serious quality in the CGI, unlike all the CGI done 5-10 years later in the Star Wars prequels! It isn't like Lucas couldn't have got the best CGI animators, so why is it so rubbish-looking?
Quote from: english si on January 27, 2016, 09:28:09 AM
You'd have thought that given the strong negative response to the remastered editions of the original trilogy, that Lucas would have realised that the feel of the originals is part of what they loved and the fans don't want CGI aliens plastered in every free space. Instead Lucas doubles down with green screen and wipes galore.
Lucas and others devoted a lot of time and attention to how he feels he's the visionary here and he's not in this to do what anyone else wants. That seems do be a big part of why he's not involved anymore. The one interview I've read with him since the new one reeks of sour grapes.
Quote
*See also Toy Story: neither early 90s film looks old hat today as there's serious quality in the CGI, unlike all the CGI done 5-10 years later in the Star Wars prequels! It isn't like Lucas couldn't have got the best CGI animators, so why is it so rubbish-looking?
I would guess that when your movie is all cartoon, it's easy to keep the look and feel consistent. When you're putting the CGI up against analogue effects and real items, the challenge to make things look seamless (particularly twenty years ago) would be greater. Still, this doesn't explain Jabba basically becoming Grimace.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 27, 2016, 12:11:43 PMI would guess that when your movie is all cartoon, it's easy to keep the look and feel consistent.
Sure, but Toy Story looks better than almost every CGI cartoon from the 00s, and I also talk about 1993's Jurassic Park here, where most of it isn't CGI
QuoteWhen you're putting the CGI up against analogue effects and real items, the challenge to make things look seamless (particularly twenty years ago) would be greater.
Jurassic Park pulled it off...
Quote from: english si on January 27, 2016, 09:28:09 AM
*See also Toy Story: neither early 90s film looks old hat today as there's serious quality in the CGI, unlike all the CGI done 5-10 years later in the Star Wars prequels! It isn't like Lucas couldn't have got the best CGI animators, so why is it so rubbish-looking?
I don't think it's "rubbish looking", it's just too damn shiny because the effects went a bit overboard. But then again, I've never had the itch to see
Jurassic Park a second time.
The timeframe for Episodes I-III were supposed to go backwards in the span of time; thus, it seemed out of place to have things look more modern than the grungy, worn-out, textured feeling of Episodes IV-VI. I think there's scenes back on Tatooine which were done nicely, and some of the brainless battle droids looked like they'd been in a few prior sorties, but the look of all those gleaming, hospital-clean spaceships and sparkling rooms were totally out of place. That said, it wasn't the effects that bugged me, it's just that three movies weren't really needed to explain what we largely knew what was going to happen, and there's just mucky plot writing which seemed written by committee which disappointed.
I liked how practical effects were back in play for Episode VII. But to be fair, I think too many non-human characters that looked like extras from
The Dark Crystal weren't going to cut it with audiences in 1999. (This isn't a knock on The Dark Crystal, which was also quite awesome for its time.)
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 27, 2016, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: english si on January 27, 2016, 09:28:09 AM
You'd have thought that given the strong negative response to the remastered editions of the original trilogy, that Lucas would have realised that the feel of the originals is part of what they loved and the fans don't want CGI aliens plastered in every free space. Instead Lucas doubles down with green screen and wipes galore.
Lucas and others devoted a lot of time and attention to how he feels he's the visionary here and he's not in this to do what anyone else wants. That seems do be a big part of why he's not involved anymore. The one interview I've read with him since the new one reeks of sour grapes.
Which makes sense. When we draw fictitious maps or highway signs, we draw them the way we want them, not the way that makes them the most popular. George Lucas was treating Star Wars the same way, doing it the way he wanted. Can't blame the man for quitting when this got him boatloads of criticism.
Quote from: formulanone on January 27, 2016, 03:24:53 PM
The timeframe for Episodes I-III were supposed to go backwards in the span of time; thus, it seemed out of place to have things look more modern than the grungy, worn-out, textured feeling of Episodes IV-VI.
This I have to disagree on - it makes perfect sense when you consider the overall plot. Things were nicer in the prequel era. After a huge war and the rise of a tyrannical and oppressive regime, quality of life in the galaxy had legitimately gone downhill and so of course everything looks more grungy and worn out. Kind of like how lots of American cities looked a lot dirtier and more run down in the 1980s than they did in the 1950s, because of higher crime and lower economic strength.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 26, 2016, 11:11:38 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on January 26, 2016, 10:16:01 PM
I take it Luke taking a shot to his right hand in the early half of Episode 6 is not counting?
You'll remember that he left his instruction when Yoda told him he wasn't done.
Isn't it mentioned near the end of Episode 7 that Kylo Ren needs more training from Snoke though? Also, Yoda states in Episode 6, shortly after Luke is shot in the hand, that Luke does not requiring any more training.
After rewatching the Star Wars movies I think changing the end of ROTJ was kind of stupid. They should have just left it alone. It doesn't really make sense that Anakin is still young, while Obi Wan and Yoda are old, especially since the old Anakin dies a Jedi. To add to this Luke would recognize his father as his old self, I'm not too sure he'd recognize the younger version of his father. Also it was better when Vader said nothing, rather than him saying No Nooooo when saving Luke from Sidious. Hopefully Disney will release the original episode 6 to DVD and Blu Ray. And if Anakin, Obi Wan, and/or Yoda appear as force ghosts in later episodes I hope they will reappear as their old selves rather than their young selves. IMO the hybrid dark/good Anakin idea was dumb. Anakin gave up his evil ways right before he died. If he returns as a ghost it should only be as his good self.
Quote from: US 41 on February 05, 2016, 09:06:47 PM
And if Anakin, Obi Wan, and/or Yoda appear as force ghosts in later episodes I hope they will reappear as their old selves rather than their young selves.
Well, Sebastian Shaw and Alec Guinness are both dead, so that won't be happening for Anakin or Obi-Wan.
I do agree, though, that Hayden Christensen's post hoc shoehorning into the end of Return of the Jedi is odd and makes no particular sense.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 05, 2016, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: US 41 on February 05, 2016, 09:06:47 PM
And if Anakin, Obi Wan, and/or Yoda appear as force ghosts in later episodes I hope they will reappear as their old selves rather than their young selves.
Well, Sebastian Shaw and Alec Guinness are both dead, so that won't be happening for Anakin or Obi-Wan.
I do agree, though, that Hayden Christensen's post hoc shoehorning into the end of Return of the Jedi is odd and makes no particular sense.
They'd be way too old at this point anyways even if they were still alive. I just hope they use an older normal Anakin if he reappears. It seems likely that he will reappear at some point sense Kylo Ren is his grandson. They were thinking of putting Anakin's ghost in the movie with him looking like this.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZsb3G9N.jpg&hash=c1fce456153bc4cbc3cc7e4d18fc9efab3d86143)
To me anyways I would much rather see a normal looking Hayden Christensen or someone older that they can make look pretty close to Shaw. "You already have Luke" pretty much sums up that Anakin left behind his dark ways and was saved at the end of ROTJ. I don't really like the idea of him with a dark and light side. I'd rather see him try to talk some sense into Kylo or a scene of him talking to Luke.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fscreenrant.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FStar-Wars-Original-Trilogy-Changes-Hayden-Christensen.jpg&hash=1252a1b83176157d874541997545ae610e4e12bc)
Quote from: Duke87 on February 05, 2016, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: US 41 on February 05, 2016, 09:06:47 PM
And if Anakin, Obi Wan, and/or Yoda appear as force ghosts in later episodes I hope they will reappear as their old selves rather than their young selves.
Well, Sebastian Shaw and Alec Guinness are both dead, so that won't be happening for Anakin or Obi-Wan.
I do agree, though, that Hayden Christensen's post hoc shoehorning into the end of Return of the Jedi is odd and makes no particular sense.
Makes total sense. Hayden Christensen is the spirit of young Anakin, who died in the battle on Mustafar when he became Darth Vader. Darth Vader died, redeemed, after the battle with Luke and Emperor Palpatine; the redeemed Vader's ghost was reincarnated in Rey, which you can tell from her music. :bigass: