I was wondering, in your area, do arrow panels more commonly use an actual arrow, or do they use the three chevrons?
Here in the Phoenix area I usually see the chevrons.
Also, in addition to the inconsistency between arrows vs. chevrons, there is also the inconsistency whether they are flashing or sequential. Arrows are usually flashing, while chevrons are always sequential, however, there are also sequential arrows in use by some DOTs. Flashing chevrons are not permitted by the MUTCD. I think sequential arrows or chevrons are more effective than flashing arrows at indicating lane closures; I wonder if a future edition of the MUTCD will delete the flashing arrow.
Here in Illinois, we like to put up a single large arrow on a sharp turn, and a bunch of chevrons on a more gradual turn. Quite often, however, the signage depends on the amount of money and labor the road district wants to throw at it. Often, you will find one single arrow panel as a simple solution where, if people wanted to invest more time and money, they could have installed several posts with chevrons. Sometimes you'll see chevrons on even the slightest curves, as curves can be a culture shock to us flatlanders XD though if the curve can be taken at a speed equal to the speed limit or greater, you will most commonly see no signs at all.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 26, 2016, 11:50:22 AM
Here in Illinois, we like to put up a single large arrow on a sharp turn, and a bunch of chevrons on a more gradual turn. Quite often, however, the signage depends on the amount of money and labor the road district wants to throw at it. Often, you will find one single arrow panel as a simple solution where, if people wanted to invest more time and money, they could have installed several posts with chevrons. Sometimes you'll see chevrons on even the slightest curves, as curves can be a culture shock to us flatlanders XD though if the curve can be taken at a speed equal to the speed limit or greater, you will most commonly see no signs at all.
I'm actually referring to one of these:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.protectionservices.com%2FDesktopModules%2FAGIS-Gallery2%2FPhotos%2F6eed576a-085f-491f-bc60-b22d4c3d03f0.jpg&hash=ec8fea749999340ecb6cd0c54c406fc97bc6b5f8)
The photo shows a flashing arrow model.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 26, 2016, 01:11:58 PM
I'm actually referring to one of these:
http://www.protectionservices.com/DesktopModules/AGIS-Gallery2/Photos/6eed576a-085f-491f-bc60-b22d4c3d03f0.jpg
The photo shows a flashing arrow model.
You should probably mention "VMS" somewhere in your original post. I thought you were referring to the difference between these two signs:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjtwXmNd.png&hash=5845acb0bef55abc338dab9354a7a932b17e433b) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIYcwdty.png&hash=7f75b55d56265d7d47f3bd224d18544dc719c535)
Quote from: jakeroot on February 26, 2016, 01:27:15 PM
You should probably mention "VMS" somewhere in your original post. I thought you were referring to the difference between these two signs:
If you read my OP, you can see that I also mentioned the inconsistency on whether they are flashing or sequential, which obviously isn't possible with ordinary signs. Arrows are usually flashing, while chevrons are always sequential, however, some DOTs also use sequential arrows. The MUTCD does not allow flashing chevrons; chevrons are required to be sequential.
Being that the first several responses were thinking the same thing, I think we were all confused. Ordinary signage with flashing options do exist, such as: https://goo.gl/maps/knG8rdJsCGD2 , along with these with flashing lights above the chevrons: https://goo.gl/maps/aYb6sN29pL32.
Anyway, now that we know what you are referring to:
Almost everyplace I've been on the east coast uses just a flashing arrow. On rare occasion will I see the arrow 'sequence', which they do by 2 dots, then 2 dots, then the reminding dot and the arrow. For the most part, the arrow boards over here don't even have the ability to do chevrons.
The DRPA's Commodore Barry Bridge does have a multi-function arrow board, and I did see them using the chevron option. No doubt it was some roadgeek that wasn't supposed to be playing around with it! :-D
Quote from: jakeroot on February 26, 2016, 01:27:15 PM(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FjtwXmNd.png&hash=5845acb0bef55abc338dab9354a7a932b17e433b)
Neat,
simulated button-copy. :)
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 26, 2016, 02:17:31 PM
Anyway, now that we know what you are referring to:
Almost everyplace I've been on the east coast uses just a flashing arrow. On rare occasion will I see the arrow 'sequence', which they do by 2 dots, then 2 dots, then the reminding dot and the arrow. For the most part, the arrow boards over here don't even have the ability to do chevrons.
The DRPA's Commodore Barry Bridge does have a multi-function arrow board, and I did see them using the chevron option. No doubt it was some roadgeek that wasn't supposed to be playing around with it! :-D
It appears there are two versions of the sequential arrow, one which only shows the arrowhead at the third phase of the sequence, and one with a moving arrowhead. The latter requires a multifunction board that can also display chevrons.
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 26, 2016, 02:29:02 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on February 26, 2016, 01:27:15 PM
http://i.imgur.com/jtwXmNd.png
Neat, simulated button-copy. :)
A very interesting sign, indeed. Here's a GMSV link: https://goo.gl/L08euy. I'm not sure if the sign was installed by WSDOT or the City of Seattle, but I do know the sign is only maybe 10-15 years old.
My observations only....
Arrow signs, usually mean turn. Chevron signs, usually mean merge (and are often chasing). This has been my experience in much of the country. However, sometimes whatever is available is used.
^^ At least in Wisconsin, the flashing arrow signs are the preferred method and mean merge.
Quote from: TEG24601 on February 26, 2016, 04:25:02 PM
My observations only....
Arrow signs, usually mean turn. Chevron signs, usually mean merge (and are often chasing). This has been my experience in much of the country. However, sometimes whatever is available is used.
When I lived in Virginia I don't remember seeing chevrons used at all.
FYI, while arrows can either be flashing or sequential, the MUTCD requires chevrons to be sequential.
To get more on-topic (relative to my first couple of posts), I see both sequential chevrons and sequential arrows in Washington. Lately, most of the displays have been full matrix displays with sequential arrows, similar to this:
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-A26uMF8bVT4/VsSs0rjFD9I/AAAAAAAACdI/mMwW_lpOz3I/s1600/road-warrior-garage.jpg)
IIRC, the sequential chevron design seems to be more popular west of the Mississippi than east of it - excluding Missouri, which uses the plain flashing arrow board.
Quote from: Revive 755 on February 26, 2016, 09:54:10 PM
IIRC, the sequential chevron design seems to be more popular west of the Mississippi than east of it - excluding Missouri, which uses the plain flashing arrow board.
I think GDOT (Georgia) uses the chevrons. Also, I have seen the chevrons in use in Puerto Rico.
I have never seen chevrons on a portable VMS in New York. A ton of the old-fashioned arrow panels, though.
Quote from: TEG24601 on February 26, 2016, 04:25:02 PM
My observations only....
Arrow signs, usually mean turn. Chevron signs, usually mean merge (and are often chasing). This has been my experience in much of the country. However, sometimes whatever is available is used.
Usually, again on the east coast, it's all arrows. At construction zones, many states will put them at the very beginning of the taper area (say, on the shoulder), telling you to merge over. Other states, such as NJ, will put them at the end of the tapered area, in the lane that's closed. Personally, I like the way other states do it. On a 65 mph roadway, the tapered area is so long that it's sometimes tough to see the arrow board, especially if there's a slight curve or hill in the roadway, or if the arrow isn't as bright as it should be.
On more local roads, the merge area can be vey small. Speaking in terms of utility trucks working on manholes or telephone line poles: Delaware, for example, isn't too bad - they seem to have an over-abundance of signage even for the most minor of projects and generous tapered zones. Here in NJ, signage is surprisingly minimal and tapered areas are sometimes just a few cones blocking a lane.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 27, 2016, 11:10:48 AM
Usually, again on the east coast, it's all arrows. At construction zones, many states will put them at the very beginning of the taper area (say, on the shoulder), telling you to merge over. Other states, such as NJ, will put them at the end of the tapered area, in the lane that's closed. Personally, I like the way other states do it. On a 65 mph roadway, the tapered area is so long that it's sometimes tough to see the arrow board, especially if there's a slight curve or hill in the roadway, or if the arrow isn't as bright as it should be.
Then you have Illinois which will usually put a second arrow board one before the start of the taper on higher speed multi-lane roads (Example standard) (http://idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/Doing-Business/Standards/Highway-Standards/PDF/218-701422-08_LnClosureMultiLn-45-55MPH.pdf). IMO this is probably not the best idea if the road has more than two through lanes where the advance arrow board would be placed and either one of the lanes ends as it did prior to the start of the construction project or when one of the lanes on the same side as the lane to be closed is dropped via a turn lane or exit.
Quote from: Revive 755 on February 27, 2016, 11:24:15 AM
Then you have Illinois which will usually put a second arrow board one before the start of the taper on higher speed multi-lane roads (Example standard) (http://idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/Doing-Business/Standards/Highway-Standards/PDF/218-701422-08_LnClosureMultiLn-45-55MPH.pdf). IMO this is probably not the best idea if the road has more than two through lanes where the advance arrow board would be placed and either one of the lanes ends as it did prior to the start of the construction project or when one of the lanes on the same side as the lane to be closed is dropped via a turn lane or exit.
(Guy from Illinois here)
I like this standard, because a lot of the jackasses who don't want to move over until the last second will see the first arrow board from a distance, thinking that's where the lanes merge. So they move over earlier. :D
But yeah, IL's arrow boards are never chevrons, they are always <- or -> or <->, i.e. they are arrows ON A STICK (Jose jalapeno voice)