Wikipedia claims that there is a proposal to designate the upgraded US 31 north of Indianapolis as I-67. Is this an active idea? What it its status?
From what I've gathered, there is some discussion IF US 31 becomes a full freeway from South Bend to Indianapolis, that Indiana will seek to designate it as I-67. As part of the proposal, IIRC, it is to run it up the existing US 31 freeway to Michigan and up to Grand Rapids via the current I-196.
However, that is a long way away. I don't believe there are active projects for freeway conversion on the remaining expressway segments of US 31 between South Bend and Indianapolis (I could be wrong here). Plus, additional upgrades would be needed in the South Bend area, as I don't believe the current freeway there is fully Interstate-standard (again, I could be wrong here).
So the answer is yes, but who knows when. Also, IIRC, there are a few other routes that are competing for the I-67 designation.
What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
Quote from: I-39 on March 15, 2016, 08:01:05 PM
Also, IIRC, there are a few other routes that are competing for the I-67 designation.
I know Kentucky was interested in the I-67 designation at one time, but I believe the latest is that I are thinking about designating the Bowling Green - Owensboro route as I-x65.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 15, 2016, 09:46:34 PM
Quote from: I-39 on March 15, 2016, 08:01:05 PM
Also, IIRC, there are a few other routes that are competing for the I-67 designation.
I know Kentucky was interested in the I-67 designation at one time, but I believe the latest is that I are thinking about designating the Bowling Green - Owensboro route as I-x65.
KYTC has a number that they have proposed for this - I-565. Not sure why 165 or 365 wouldn't have worked, but what do I know? :spin:
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2016, 08:21:01 PMIt'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
Just because it doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation, doesn't mean it can't have one if the state wants...
Quote from: I-39 on March 15, 2016, 08:01:05 PM
As part of the proposal, IIRC, it is to run it up the existing US 31 freeway to Michigan and up to Grand Rapids via the current I-196.
I drove past the northern end of the US 31 freeway in MI along Napier Avenue just a couple of months ago. Thought I read somewhere that it was never completed to tie into I-94 or I-196 because of local opposition or lack of demand. Can't imagine that it'd be a priority to build now if it hasn't been already.
Quote from: Rothman on March 16, 2016, 08:04:22 AM
I drove past the northern end of the US 31 freeway in MI along Napier Avenue just a couple of months ago. Thought I read somewhere that it was never completed to tie into I-94 or I-196 because of local opposition or lack of demand. Can't imagine that it'd be a priority to build now if it hasn't been already.
It was never completed because it would have encroached on the habitat of an endangered butterfly. The alternative now is to build the freeway up to where BL 94 joins I-94, but construction hasn't yet started.
Quote from: rawmustard on March 16, 2016, 09:17:33 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 16, 2016, 08:04:22 AM
I drove past the northern end of the US 31 freeway in MI along Napier Avenue just a couple of months ago. Thought I read somewhere that it was never completed to tie into I-94 or I-196 because of local opposition or lack of demand. Can't imagine that it'd be a priority to build now if it hasn't been already.
It was never completed because it would have encroached on the habitat of an endangered butterfly. The alternative now is to build the freeway up to where BL 94 joins I-94, but construction hasn't yet started.
Makes me wonder how far work is along getting such a project to construction at this point.
Quote from: rawmustard on March 16, 2016, 09:17:33 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 16, 2016, 08:04:22 AM
I drove past the northern end of the US 31 freeway in MI along Napier Avenue just a couple of months ago. Thought I read somewhere that it was never completed to tie into I-94 or I-196 because of local opposition or lack of demand. Can't imagine that it'd be a priority to build now if it hasn't been already.
It was never completed because it would have encroached on the habitat of an endangered butterfly. The alternative now is to build the freeway up to where BL 94 joins I-94, but construction hasn't yet started.
Maybe after the butterfly is extinct we can have out freeway. Just sayin'...
Quote from: I-39 on March 15, 2016, 08:01:05 PM
I don't believe there are active projects for freeway conversion on the remaining expressway segments of US 31 between South Bend and Indianapolis (I could be wrong here). Plus, additional upgrades would be needed in the South Bend area, as I don't believe the current freeway there is fully Interstate-standard (again, I could be wrong here).
So the answer is yes, but who knows when. Also, IIRC, there are a few other routes that are competing for the I-67 designation.
In addition to the completed freeway conversion in the Kokomo area, the portion from Plymouth to South Bend is done, but for a few details. The portion from I-465 north to just beyond SR-38 is still under construction. An interchange at SR-28 is just starting construction. That's all for now.
The portion of 31 that bypasses South Bend may be up to interstate standards. The part on the southwest side of town was built in the late '50s and was not originally built to interstate standards. It was purportedly upgraded to those standards in the years since the completion of the St. Joseph Valley Parkway (US-20) around South Bend and Elkhart. Considerable reconstruction was done, including replacing 2 overpasses and lowering the highway under another. One thing that would presumably require upgrading is the US-31/US-20 interchange on the south side. US-31 NB is not free flowing, since it follows a loop ramp. The original plans for the Plymouth-South Bend freeway called for replacement of the loop with a flyover, but that was dropped along the way.
Quote from: english si on March 16, 2016, 07:35:39 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2016, 08:21:01 PMIt'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
Just because it doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation, doesn't mean it can't have one if the state wants...
You're calling me out for something I didn't say, and that annoys me. I simply said it's not necessary to make that road an Interstate. I never said they couldn't if they're dying to, which they probably will under the "make every freeway an Interstate" craze.
US 31 from Plymouth to Peru flows very well. To me, it would be a lot of unnecessary expense to convert that section just to be able to get an interstate designation. There are many other projects that are much more important and need to be priorities over that. If you want to convert the rest of what isn't done from Peru to Noblesville, I'd be fine with that and then that part could be called I-365.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 16, 2016, 04:58:28 PMYou're calling me out for something I didn't say, and that annoys me.
You are calling me out for something I didn't say, and that annoys me.
I simply said that "doesn't necessitate" isn't "can't", something that you agree with.
Although an Interstate 67 designation would fit in the Interstate grid, the road probably should remain just US 31. That is, unless the DOT orchestrates a plan to convert the whole corridor to freeway standards.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 17, 2016, 08:28:55 AM
US 31 from Plymouth to Peru flows very well. To me, it would be a lot of unnecessary expense to convert that section just to be able to get an interstate designation. There are many other projects that are much more important and need to be priorities over that. If you want to convert the rest of what isn't done from Peru to Noblesville, I'd be fine with that and then that part could be called I-365.
The flip side is that this section would also be the cheapest to upgrade. There are very few, if any, driveways on the road between US 24 and US 30. They would need five or six interchanges, quite a few overpasses (but this area is very lightly populated), and a bridge over that one railroad near Plymouth. So to me, the question is more about the value received from doing it.
South of US 24 to Kokomo will be much more problematic just like Tipton County.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
I-65 and I-69 follow completely different directions than US 31. A new I-67 would connect Indianapolis (1.75M metro) to Grand Rapids (1.03M metro) and passing thru South Bend/Elkhart area which is over 500K. Also many 2d Interstate highways are regional routes. I-67, if it were created would be about 250 miles long. Below are the lengths of other 2dis for comparison:
I-17 146
I-19 102
i-22 213
I-27 124
I-37 143
I-41 176
I-43 192
i-45 285
i-66 76
I-68 113
I-72 184
I-73 82
I-78 144
I-82 144
I-83 85
I-84 e 232
I-86 w 101
I-88 e 118
I-88 w 141
I-89 191
i-96 192
I-97 18
I-99 99
While an Intersate designation would not be necessary, it would be easily justifiable.
^ I don't think the mileage for the western I-88 is right, as it is only near Mile 138 at the connector to southbound I-294.
Quote from: Revive 755 on March 17, 2016, 09:51:21 PM
^ I don't think the mileage for the western I-88 is right, as it is only near Mile 138 at the connector to southbound I-294.
Yes, thanks, I corrected it. But it bolsters the point that there are many short, regional routes. A 250 mile 2 digit Interstate route would not be anywhere near the shortest one.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 15, 2016, 09:46:34 PM
Quote from: I-39 on March 15, 2016, 08:01:05 PM
Also, IIRC, there are a few other routes that are competing for the I-67 designation.
I know Kentucky was interested in the I-67 designation at one time, but I believe the latest is that I are thinking about designating the Bowling Green - Owensboro route as I-x65.
There's also the Montgomery-Dothan-Pensacola proposal, and at one time the US 219 upgrade in western PA, but the latter lost out when US 220 was upgraded to I-99. As much as we hate having I-99 where it is now, I-67 in that area would've been much, MUCH worse! :pan:
Quote from: mukade on March 17, 2016, 09:47:32 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
I-65 and I-69 follow completely different directions than US 31. A new I-67 would connect Indianapolis (1.75M metro) to Grand Rapids (1.03M metro) and passing thru South Bend/Elkhart area which is over 500K. Also many 2d Interstate highways are regional routes. I-67, if it were created would be about 250 miles long. Below are the lengths of other 2dis for comparison:
I-17146
I-19102
i-22213
I-27124
I-37143
I-41176
I-43192
i-45285
i-6676
I-68113
I-72184
I-7382
I-78144
I-82144
I-8385
I-84 e232
I-86 w101
I-88 e118
I-88 w141
I-89191
i-96192
I-9718
I-9999
While an Intersate designation would not be necessary, it would be easily justifiable.
I-4 is 132 miles
Quote from: mukade on March 17, 2016, 09:47:32 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
Below are the lengths of other 2dis for comparison:
I-17 146
I-19 102
i-22 213
I-27 124
I-37 143
I-41 176
I-43 192
i-45 285
i-66 76
I-68 113
I-72 184
I-73 82
I-78 144
I-82 144
I-83 85
I-84 e 232
I-86 w 101
I-88 e 118
I-88 w 141
I-89 191
i-96 192
I-97 18
I-99 99
While an Intersate designation would not be necessary, it would be easily justifiable.
I-19 was in kilometers, so it would be just over 60 miles. I-12 is not listed, and it's a glorified 3-d bypass of about 85 miles.
Quote from: mukade on March 17, 2016, 07:06:35 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 17, 2016, 08:28:55 AM
US 31 from Plymouth to Peru flows very well. To me, it would be a lot of unnecessary expense to convert that section just to be able to get an interstate designation. There are many other projects that are much more important and need to be priorities over that. If you want to convert the rest of what isn't done from Peru to Noblesville, I'd be fine with that and then that part could be called I-365.
The flip side is that this section would also be the cheapest to upgrade. There are very few, if any, driveways on the road between US 24 and US 30. They would need five or six interchanges, quite a few overpasses (but this area is very lightly populated), and a bridge over that one railroad near Plymouth. So to me, the question is more about the value received from doing it.
South of US 24 to Kokomo will be much more problematic just like Tipton County.
Even if it would be relatively inexpensive, I just can't justify doing it when there are much more critical projects that need to be done, like making I-65 6 lanes. Once I pass the last stoplight at Peru heading north, I rarely have to let off the cruise control even once before hitting Plymouth. It's just not worth the money at any cost.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on March 21, 2016, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: mukade on March 17, 2016, 09:47:32 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
Below are the lengths of other 2dis for comparison:
I-17 146
I-19 102
i-22 213
I-27 124
I-37 143
I-41 176
I-43 192
i-45 285
i-66 76
I-68 113
I-72 184
I-73 82
I-78 144
I-82 144
I-83 85
I-84 e 232
I-86 w 101
I-88 e 118
I-88 w 141
I-89 191
i-96 192
I-97 18
I-99 99
While an Intersate designation would not be necessary, it would be easily justifiable.
I-19 was in kilometers, so it would be just over 60 miles. I-12 is not listed, and it's a glorified 3-d bypass of about 85 miles.
Do not forget I-2 in Texas. Its just about over 46 miles long.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 22, 2016, 08:44:38 AM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on March 21, 2016, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: mukade on March 17, 2016, 09:47:32 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
Below are the lengths of other 2dis for comparison:
I-17 146
I-19 102
i-22 213
I-27 124
I-37 143
I-41 176
I-43 192
i-45 285
i-66 76
I-68 113
I-72 184
I-73 82
I-78 144
I-82 144
I-83 85
I-84 e 232
I-86 w 101
I-88 e 118
I-88 w 141
I-89 191
i-96 192
I-97 18
I-99 99
While an Intersate designation would not be necessary, it would be easily justifiable.
I-19 was in kilometers, so it would be just over 60 miles. I-12 is not listed, and it's a glorified 3-d bypass of about 85 miles.
Do not forget I-2 in Texas. Its just about over 46 miles long.
By comparison, I-476 in PA is 129 miles long, and that's longer than eleven 2di's!
I honestly think that neither INDOT nor the lobby group pushing to upgrade 31 has ever mentioned i-67 at all. So I'm not sure if it's even on anyone's radar.
Maybe this post should be moved to Fictional Highways.
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 22, 2016, 11:11:13 AM
I honestly think that neither INDOT nor the lobby group pushing to upgrade 31 has ever mentioned i-67 at all. So I'm not sure if it's even on anyone's radar.
And I doubt Michigan would be interested at all. A US highway freeway is just as good as an Interstate freeway.
Even if Michigan was interested it would take 100 yrs for them to actually build the damn thing
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 22, 2016, 07:57:11 AM
Quote from: mukade on March 17, 2016, 07:06:35 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 17, 2016, 08:28:55 AM
US 31 from Plymouth to Peru flows very well. To me, it would be a lot of unnecessary expense to convert that section just to be able to get an interstate designation. There are many other projects that are much more important and need to be priorities over that. If you want to convert the rest of what isn't done from Peru to Noblesville, I'd be fine with that and then that part could be called I-365.
The flip side is that this section would also be the cheapest to upgrade. There are very few, if any, driveways on the road between US 24 and US 30. They would need five or six interchanges, quite a few overpasses (but this area is very lightly populated), and a bridge over that one railroad near Plymouth. So to me, the question is more about the value received from doing it.
South of US 24 to Kokomo will be much more problematic just like Tipton County.
Even if it would be relatively inexpensive, I just can't justify doing it when there are much more critical projects that need to be done, like making I-65 6 lanes. Once I pass the last stoplight at Peru heading north, I rarely have to let off the cruise control even once before hitting Plymouth. It's just not worth the money at any cost.
While there are a lot of safe sections, there are also some dangerous areas like intersections in Rochester, Argos, and Plymouth. I think there are a few driveways toward Peru (that restaurant / winery for one), right?
The rest may not need it, I agree, but I have seen less-used highways that are freeways.
Quote from: GaryV on March 22, 2016, 05:30:31 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 22, 2016, 11:11:13 AM
I honestly think that neither INDOT nor the lobby group pushing to upgrade 31 has ever mentioned i-67 at all. So I'm not sure if it's even on anyone's radar.
And I doubt Michigan would be interested at all. A US highway freeway is just as good as an Interstate freeway.
Jebediah would be proud that they are settlers and that they settle for things like US Highway designations. Or would Dixie Highway be better?
Quote from: mukade on March 22, 2016, 09:04:41 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 22, 2016, 07:57:11 AM
Quote from: mukade on March 17, 2016, 07:06:35 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 17, 2016, 08:28:55 AM
US 31 from Plymouth to Peru flows very well. To me, it would be a lot of unnecessary expense to convert that section just to be able to get an interstate designation. There are many other projects that are much more important and need to be priorities over that. If you want to convert the rest of what isn't done from Peru to Noblesville, I'd be fine with that and then that part could be called I-365.
The flip side is that this section would also be the cheapest to upgrade. There are very few, if any, driveways on the road between US 24 and US 30. They would need five or six interchanges, quite a few overpasses (but this area is very lightly populated), and a bridge over that one railroad near Plymouth. So to me, the question is more about the value received from doing it.
South of US 24 to Kokomo will be much more problematic just like Tipton County.
Even if it would be relatively inexpensive, I just can't justify doing it when there are much more critical projects that need to be done, like making I-65 6 lanes. Once I pass the last stoplight at Peru heading north, I rarely have to let off the cruise control even once before hitting Plymouth. It's just not worth the money at any cost.
While there are a lot of safe sections, there are also some dangerous areas like intersections in Rochester, Argos, and Plymouth. I think there are a few driveways toward Peru (that restaurant / winery for one), right?
The rest may not need it, I agree, but I have seen less-used highways that are freeways.
The real dangerous intersection was US 31/IN 14 at Rochester, but that got closed several years ago. Another dangerous intersection was US 31/9th Rd at Plymouth, but that too has been modified. I haven't heard of any major problems in Argos.
Quote from: Henry on March 22, 2016, 10:17:43 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 22, 2016, 08:44:38 AM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on March 21, 2016, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: mukade on March 17, 2016, 09:47:32 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
Below are the lengths of other 2dis for comparison:
I-17 146
I-19 102
i-22 213
I-27 124
I-37 143
I-41 176
I-43 192
i-45 285
i-66 76
I-68 113
I-72 184
I-73 82
I-78 144
I-82 144
I-83 85
I-84 e 232
I-86 w 101
I-88 e 118
I-88 w 141
I-89 191
i-96 192
I-97 18
I-99 99
While an Intersate designation would not be necessary, it would be easily justifiable.
I-19 was in kilometers, so it would be just over 60 miles. I-12 is not listed, and it's a glorified 3-d bypass of about 85 miles.
Do not forget I-2 in Texas. Its just about over 46 miles long.
By comparison, I-476 in PA is 129 miles long, and that's longer than eleven 2di's!
Hell even I-287 in NJ is longer than some 2 digits, and that is not even its full length as it continues in NYS.
I anticipate that INDOT will continue to upgrade US 31 a piece at a time following the SR 28 interchange. You can expect the NSRR, a mile north of SR 28, to be bridged over relatively soon, perhaps 2017, followed by a new interchange at what is currently the stoplight at Baker's Corner (2018?) and another interchange in northern Hamilton County (2019?) near the new John Deere dealership. INDOT would like to remove the stoplight at Division Road (high priority) Local leaders want a Division Road interchange while INDOT wants a cheaper alternative. These projects can be anticipated in the next five years. Eliminate the remaining cross-overs and driveways and now you have extended the freeway to Division Road. That would cover the most highly trafficked unimproved segment with the most potential for economic growth.
Add an overpass in northern Tipton County and eliminate the numerous remaining driveway cuts to the Kokomo segment and the freeway will be complete up to Miami County. I think this can all happen in the next ten years.
I feel that INDOT will drag their feet in Miami and Fulton Counties due to the current quality of that expressway. However, they would like to eliminate the stoplights in favor of something creative (and cheaper) like J turns. That will be a battle. The US31 Coalition does not have an interstate designated route as one of their stated objectives, although I think they should. They believe that the interstate designation makes their requests more complicated and I understand that. Their goal is to develop the entire corridor to a freeway standard, which then would make it an easy secondary goal of an interstate shielded highway if the powers that be want to go that direction.
Quote from: monty on March 23, 2016, 09:56:16 AM
I anticipate that INDOT will continue to upgrade US 31 a piece at a time following the SR 28 interchange. You can expect the NSRR, a mile north of SR 28, to be bridged over relatively soon, perhaps 2017, followed by a new interchange at what is currently the stoplight at Baker's Corner (2018?) and another interchange in northern Hamilton County (2019?) near the new John Deere dealership. INDOT would like to remove the stoplight at Division Road (high priority) Local leaders want a Division Road interchange while INDOT wants a cheaper alternative. These projects can be anticipated in the next five years. Eliminate the remaining cross-overs and driveways and now you have extended the freeway to Division Road. That would cover the most highly trafficked unimproved segment with the most potential for economic growth.
Add an overpass in northern Tipton County and eliminate the numerous remaining driveway cuts to the Kokomo segment and the freeway will be complete up to Miami County. I think this can all happen in the next ten years.
I feel that INDOT will drag their feet in Miami and Fulton Counties due to the current quality of that expressway. However, they would like to eliminate the stoplights in favor of something creative (and cheaper) like J turns. That will be a battle. The US31 Coalition does not have an interstate designated route as one of their stated objectives, although I think they should. They believe that the interstate designation makes their requests more complicated and I understand that. Their goal is to develop the entire corridor to a freeway standard, which then would make it an easy secondary goal of an interstate shielded highway if the powers that be want to go that direction.
Division Road and the RR tracks in the area are both slated to be changed to bridges within the next few yrs. They should be in the very early phases of design.
I've got an economic development background and I personally would love to see the I67 shield be applied to this corridor. It's amazing what that does for development. I understand the people on AARoads forum when they say that the "US" designation is sufficient, and it is for signing an important route, but my experience has revealed how sexy that blue shield is for attraction. The I165 scenario from Indy north to wherever the freeway ends also has some allure and it makes sense in comparison to other short freeway routes in other states. That's something I've not witnessed INDOT being interested in though.
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 22, 2016, 11:11:13 AM
I honestly think that neither INDOT nor the lobby group pushing to upgrade 31 has ever mentioned i-67 at all. So I'm not sure if it's even on anyone's radar.
Well, it
was on the radar of the Indiana legislature over a decade ago: https://web.archive.org/web/20070311070640/http://www.in.gov/s11/3-25-03.htm (https://web.archive.org/web/20070311070640/http://www.in.gov/s11/3-25-03.htm). Admittedly, they just viewed it as a vehicle to get federal funding. Good luck with that. I swear that I once saw a similar resolution from their Michigan counterparts, though I can't find it now. They were probably trying to get funding for the remaining gap in the US-31 freeway near Benton Harbor.
Really grasping at straws, we can go back even farther to 1958, when MDOT proposed I-67 for the freeway that became I-196: https://web.archive.org/web/20040805182658/nwindianahwys.homestead.com/michiplan.html (https://web.archive.org/web/20040805182658/nwindianahwys.homestead.com/michiplan.html).
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 22, 2016, 05:31:34 PM
Even if Michigan was interested it would take 100 yrs for them to actually build the damn thing
:nod:
I honestly think that
Indiana will eventually finish their part, though I likely won't live to see it. There is still a lot of push from the South Bend area to get the thing done. Every time a legislator has to make the drive for a session, he/she gets reminded. If Indiana does get it done, they may get some kind to I designation as far as the ITR.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 22, 2016, 04:31:40 PM
Maybe this post should be moved to Fictional Highways.
:nod:
I would think Michigan would rather have I-67 follow US-131 routing rather than US-31.
This post should be moved to Fictional Highways. That is beyond a maybe.
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on March 23, 2016, 01:44:05 PM
I would think Michigan would rather have I-67 follow US-131 routing rather than US-31.
I believe this was the original idea for the routing in michigan
It could still serve that even if the South Bend to Indy gets the designation. Just have it deviate at South Bend and angle over to US 131.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 25, 2016, 08:12:11 AM
It could still serve that even if the South Bend to Indy gets the designation. Just have it deviate at South Bend and angle over to US 131.
US 131 is not interstate-standard south of Schoolcraft. Not sure how I-67 gets to 131.
Quote from: cabiness42 on March 25, 2016, 09:48:04 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 25, 2016, 08:12:11 AM
It could still serve that even if the South Bend to Indy gets the designation. Just have it deviate at South Bend and angle over to US 131.
US 131 is not interstate-standard south of Schoolcraft. Not sure how I-67 gets to 131.
There's always been a desire to get a US 131 freeway to the Indiana Toll Road, but it certainly isn't going to happen in the immediate future.
I doubt Michigan's US 131 freeway will be extended in either direction anytime soon, if ever.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 25, 2016, 08:12:11 AM
It could still serve that even if the South Bend to Indy gets the designation. Just have it deviate at South Bend and angle over to US 131.
Tending toward the fictional, but if there were a desire to make the conversion to I-67, it could be done by closing the current gap in Michigan between the I-196/I-94 interchange and where the freeway of US-31 ends.
This would result in three re-designations of roads to I-67:
(1) US-31 from I-465 in Indiana to a newly completed interchange with I-94 in Michigan.
(2) I-196 from its current interchange with I-94 north to its interchange with US-131.
(3) US-131 north of its current interchange with I-196.
This would create I-67 with Manton, MI as its northern terminus and Indianapolis (I-465) as its southern terminus.
There's also the proposal for I-67 in S. Indiana/Kentucky (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5513.0), even if that's much less useful. If both were built that'd give you a road long enough to be worthy of a 2di, anyway (600+ miles).
Quote from: thefro on March 28, 2016, 03:18:44 PM
There's also the proposal for I-67 in S. Indiana/Kentucky (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5513.0), even if that's much less useful. If both were built that'd give you a road long enough to be worthy of a 2di, anyway (600+ miles).
This will never happen, INDOT isn't even remotely interested, and there are so many projects that are more important than this.
Quote from: thefro on March 28, 2016, 03:18:44 PM
There's also the proposal for I-67 in S. Indiana/Kentucky (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5513.0), even if that's much less useful. If both were built that'd give you a road long enough to be worthy of a 2di, anyway (600+ miles).
The webpage for the proposed I-67 Corridor is still around at http://i67developmentcorporation.com/, but I've not seen any news on this in probably a year or so.
Quote from: andy3175 on April 08, 2016, 01:29:57 AM
Quote from: thefro on March 28, 2016, 03:18:44 PM
There's also the proposal for I-67 in S. Indiana/Kentucky (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5513.0), even if that's much less useful. If both were built that'd give you a road long enough to be worthy of a 2di, anyway (600+ miles).
The webpage for the proposed I-67 Corridor is still around at http://i67developmentcorporation.com/, but I've not seen any news on this in probably a year or so.
It is very interesting that they advocate for connecting the southern portion to the northern portion:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi67developmentcorporation.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2FI-67-Corridor.jpg&hash=d1fab4256757038ffcb4b3f0ac55115ebe893a6b)
The map is somewhat outdated. No Interstate 39 between Rockford, IL and Portage WI. No Interstate 41, US 45 has been rerouted between Oshkosh and New London, WI, Interstate 69 ends in Indianapolis, US 27 still exists in Michigan, Interstate 164 still exists, as does US 33 in Michigan, among other things.
Kentucky apparently is going to get what it wants from the original I-67 idea: an upgraded parkway from Bowling Green to Owensboro to be called I-565.
Aren't Henderson and Owensboro getting connected by I-X69?
Quote from: GaryV on March 22, 2016, 05:30:31 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 22, 2016, 11:11:13 AM
I honestly think that neither INDOT nor the lobby group pushing to upgrade 31 has ever mentioned i-67 at all. So I'm not sure if it's even on anyone's radar.
And I doubt Michigan would be interested at all. A US highway freeway is just as good as an Interstate freeway.
I agree with both of these points. Plus, assuming that InDOT puts I-67 on that corridor, what becomes of US-31? Multiplex with I-67, or just de-commission?
Just as when InDOT wanted to de-commission US-27 north of Indy, it could not do so without Michigan DOT taking similar action on its own portion on US-27. US-31 isn't going away in Indiana without a big assist from MDOT regarding its own (very significant) portion of the road. I can't imagine a scenario where Michigan would see any value in de-commissioning US-31.
How soon does anyone think it will be before Interstate 67 signs appear? I'd say a very long time, if ever. So why are we still talking about this?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 13, 2016, 03:38:55 PM
How soon does anyone think it will be before Interstate 67 signs appear? I'd say a very long time, if ever. So why are we still talking about this?
50 yrs?+
Quote from: Henry on March 22, 2016, 10:17:43 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 22, 2016, 08:44:38 AM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on March 21, 2016, 05:00:17 PM
Quote from: mukade on March 17, 2016, 09:47:32 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
Below are the lengths of other 2dis for comparison:
I-17 146
I-19 102
i-22 213
I-27 124
I-37 143
I-41 176
I-43 192
i-45 285
i-66 76
I-68 113
I-72 184
I-73 82
I-78 144
I-82 144
I-83 85
I-84 e 232
I-86 w 101
I-88 e 118
I-88 w 141
I-89 191
i-96 192
I-97 18
I-99 99
While an Intersate designation would not be necessary, it would be easily justifiable.
I-19 was in kilometers, so it would be just over 60 miles. I-12 is not listed, and it's a glorified 3-d bypass of about 85 miles.
Do not forget I-2 in Texas. Its just about over 46 miles long.
By comparison, I-476 in PA is 129 miles long, and that's longer than eleven 2di's!
I-16 is 167 miles long, I-76 W is 188 miles long and I-93 is 190 miles long.
I could see it happening though not for awhile.
Quote from: Rothman on March 16, 2016, 11:53:14 AM
Quote from: rawmustard on March 16, 2016, 09:17:33 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 16, 2016, 08:04:22 AM
I drove past the northern end of the US 31 freeway in MI along Napier Avenue just a couple of months ago. Thought I read somewhere that it was never completed to tie into I-94 or I-196 because of local opposition or lack of demand. Can't imagine that it'd be a priority to build now if it hasn't been already.
It was never completed because it would have encroached on the habitat of an endangered butterfly. The alternative now is to build the freeway up to where BL 94 joins I-94, but construction hasn't yet started.
Makes me wonder how far work is along getting such a project to construction at this point.
It would have been built already if this stretch were in Detroit or Grand Rapids
I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.
Again I say -- not everything needs to be a full freeway. And this route certainly doesn't.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2016, 09:56:29 PM
I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.
Again I say -- not everything needs to be a full freeway. And this route certainly doesn't.
Thank you. I drive New Albany/Jeffersonville to South Bend several times per year. I get far more frustrated at the lack of a 3rd lane on 65 betweeen Sellersbug and Greenwood than I do at the few stoplights that are left on 31.
I think it would be really cool to see an interstate in the county where I grew up (Marshall County) but I don't think it's necessary. Although they could make 31 from the ITR to Plymouth I-180 without doing the rest of the upgrades.
complete the gap between westfield and kokomo and it would be good for a while
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 11, 2016, 05:16:21 PM
complete the gap between westfield and kokomo and it would be good for a while
Agree. I think they need to focus on finishing I-69 and widening 65 and 70 statewide before they need to worry about having to complete the freeway (if they even need to at that point)
Quote from: mvak36 on November 11, 2016, 07:16:47 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 11, 2016, 05:16:21 PM
complete the gap between westfield and kokomo and it would be good for a while
Agree. I think they need to focus on finishing I-69 and widening 65 and 70 statewide before they need to worry about having to complete the freeway (if they even need to at that point)
Based on the limited experience I have with it, finishing the freeway up to Kokomo would be good.
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 11, 2016, 07:59:54 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on November 11, 2016, 07:16:47 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 11, 2016, 05:16:21 PM
complete the gap between westfield and kokomo and it would be good for a while
Agree. I think they need to focus on finishing I-69 and widening 65 and 70 statewide before they need to worry about having to complete the freeway (if they even need to at that point)
Based on the limited experience I have with it, finishing the freeway up to Kokomo would be good.
Yes. I meant to say the part from Kokomo to South Bend (or is it Plymouth???) should be done later. My mistake
Quote from: mvak36 on November 11, 2016, 08:38:06 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 11, 2016, 07:59:54 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on November 11, 2016, 07:16:47 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 11, 2016, 05:16:21 PM
complete the gap between westfield and kokomo and it would be good for a while
Agree. I think they need to focus on finishing I-69 and widening 65 and 70 statewide before they need to worry about having to complete the freeway (if they even need to at that point)
Based on the limited experience I have with it, finishing the freeway up to Kokomo would be good.
Yes. I meant to say the part from Kokomo to South Bend (or is it Plymouth???) should be done later. My mistake
Yeah, Plymouth to South Bend is already done. Even the part from Westfield to Kokomo really should be a lower priority than other projects.
This topic has been discussed over and over. So one last time for my opinion.
Keep in mind, this is a long distance, high speed highway that connects Indianapolis with third biggest metropolitan area in the state (bigger than Fort Wayne and Evansville). It also connects the biggest cities in Western Michigan to points south. As stated, the biggest problems are the 236th Street stoplight, the Division Road stoplight, the Miami County stoplights, the railroad tracks north of SR 28(tanker trucks and buses stop), all of the driveways on the road (this means school buses stop), and farm equipment using the highway in the spring and fall. At least two of these issues are reported to be in line for resolution.
My opinion is that US 31 should be upgraded to freeway standards from US 24 to Kokomo, from Kokomo to SR 38, and then selective upgrades north of US 24. Specific areas north of US 24 include interchanges for that stoplight at the truck stop which is dangerous for many reasons, SR 10, and around Plymouth. THe SR 110 intersection can be problematic with trucks entering and leaving the highway.
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 11, 2016, 07:39:30 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2016, 09:56:29 PM
I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.
Again I say -- not everything needs to be a full freeway. And this route certainly doesn't.
Thank you. I drive New Albany/Jeffersonville to South Bend several times per year. I get far more frustrated at the lack of a 3rd lane on 65 betweeen Sellersbug and Greenwood than I do at the few stoplights that are left on 31.
I think it would be really cool to see an interstate in the county where I grew up (Marshall County) but I don't think it's necessary. Although they could make 31 from the ITR to Plymouth I-180 without doing the rest of the upgrades.
Obviously, improvements cannot be limited to one highway like I-65 or to one region. If that were the case, almost all highway funding would be focused on the most populous cities.
If you want to go by the highest traffic counts, I-69 from SR 32 to Pendleton (SR 38) is the inter-city Interstate highway in greatest need of widening - much more than I-65 south of Franklin. After that, I-465 has sections that need to be widened. But the state can and should upgrade certain highways throughout the state as has been the policy by at least Daniels and Pence.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2016, 09:56:29 PM
I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.
There are six stoplights. From Indy to Kokomo (or US 24) is frequently a very busy highway because of commuters living in Kokomo and working in Indy and vice versa. I spent the day down in the Indy area today, and as we were driving back north in heavy traffic just after 6:00 pm, I mentioned to my wife (who is certainly no road geek) that some guy on this road forum keeps saying US 31 is perfectly good the way it is. No offense, but her reaction was "what an idiot" because the assertion is so outrageous. People who live here and frequently drive on the road know the heavy traffic and understand the deadly accidents that have occurred. Locals know full well that this road is a big problem as it exists today.
One of the best ways to assess needs and compare with other highways is to simply look at the traffic count maps. Here are some traffic counts from Indiana and other states to consider and compare:
Non-freeway portion of US 31 in Indiana
| North of SR 38 | 27,010 |
| South of SR 931 (S) | 24,075 |
| At Grissom ARB | 23,661 |
| South of US 24 | 22,238 |
| North of US 24 | 14,275 |
| South of Rochester | 10,938 |
| South of SR 10 | 16,194 |
| South of US 30 | 16,024 |
Selected Indiana freeway traffic counts (similar or lower traffic volumes):
| I-64 | East of I-69 | 16,342 |
| I-64 | East of US 41 | 17,353 |
| I-64 | East of SR 65 | 13,551 |
| I-64 | East of SR 69 | 12,696 |
| I-64 | West of US 231 | 15,803 |
| I-64 | East of SR 37 | 17,034 |
| I-69 | South of Michigan line | 19,979 |
| I-69 | East of SR 37 inchg. | 9807 |
| I-69 | East of US 231 | 6301 |
| I-69 | North of Sr 56 | 6056 |
| I-69 | South of SR 168 | 14,700 |
| I-69 | South of I-64 | 27,913 |
| I-74 | East of Greensburg | 23,525 |
| I-74 | West of Batesville | 24,847 |
| I-74 | East of Pittsboro | 23,098 |
| I-74 | East of Crawfordsville | 16,029 |
| I-74 | East of SR 63 | 17,074 |
| I-80/90 | East of US 31 | 29,750 |
| I-80/90 | West of US 131 | 25,340 |
| I-80/90 | Between I-69 and SR 9 | 22,300 |
Imagine the Indiana Toll Road, I-64, or I-74 having driveways, stoplights, and railroad crossings.
Selected Michigan freeway traffic counts:
| US 31 | At US 12 | 17400 |
| US 31 | N of Walton Rd | 16,300 |
| US 31 | West of Berrien Springs | 14,600 |
| US 31 | N of Tabor Rd | 9900 |
| US 31 | N of Montague | 8000-12,000 |
| US 31 | S of Napier Rd. | 7900 |
| I-196 | N of I-94 | 22,000 |
| I-196 | W of M-140 | 19,400 |
| I-196 | At M-89 | 22,600 |
| US 131 | N of Reed City | 7500-12,000 |
| US 127 | S of I-75 | as low as 4800 |
Selected Illinois freeway traffic counts:
| I-55 | N of Ill 138 | 22,000 |
| I-72 | West of Decatur | 13,400-22,000 |
| I-72 | East of Decatur | 10,900-15,100 |
| I-74 | East of Bloomington | 19,500 |
| I-74 | East of Galesburg | 14,100 |
| I-74 | North of Galesburg | 13,600 |
| I-172 | South of US 24 in Quincy | 6900 |
| US 67 | N of Ill 255 | 10,600 |
Selected Kentucky freeway traffic counts:
I-24 | Lyon County | 22,168 |
| I-64 | West of US 60 | 25,116 |
| I-69 | East of Pennyrile | 10,278 |
| I-69 | North of Madisonville | 16,168 |
| I-69 | North of Sebree | 11,087 |
| I-69 | South of Audobon Pkwy | 19,520 |
| US 60 | Just east of Owensboro | 14,600 |
| Natcher | North of Bowling Green | 11,035 |
| Natcher | South of WK | 7240 |
| Mtn | East of Ky 974 | 12,557 |
| Pur | N of Fulton | 6604 |
| Pur | N of Mayfield | 7241 |
| WK | East of Bardstown | 10,969 |
| WK | At Leitchfield | 11,775 |
| WK | West of Leitchfield | 9750 |
| WK | Rockport | 10,175 |
| WK | East of I-69 | 10,504 |
Maybe a couple of stoplights on I-64 in Winchester might be good.
To say none of US 31 needs to be upgraded cannot be supported by facts. How much to upgrade the part north of US 24 is debatable, but clearly other states have built freeways carrying significantly less traffic than US 31.
just about what i was saying, at least finish it up to kokomo, but up to 24 is a better idea.
Thanks mukade. The traffic between Kokomo and INDY is heavy and consistent. This highway is getting more dangerous as it also grows in importance because drivers drive it like a freeway - but it isn't. There have been a number of fatalities at the remaining stoplights.
As someone who lives in South Bend and often travels the road, I'll endorse mukade's well-supported ideas. As much as I'd some day like to see the full interstate completed to the Cap City, I realize that the Plymouth to Peru (US-24) portion is a low priority. Everything south of US-24 is needed, sooner rather than later. I'm not saying that this should be the highest priority in the state, but it ranks up there with the others mentioned.
Quote from: mukade on November 12, 2016, 11:37:18 PM
This topic has been discussed over and over. So one last time for my opinion.
Keep in mind, this is a long distance, high speed highway that connects Indianapolis with third biggest metropolitan area in the state (bigger than Fort Wayne and Evansville). It also connects the biggest cities in Western Michigan to points south. As stated, the biggest problems are the 236th Street stoplight, the Division Road stoplight, the Miami County stoplights, the railroad tracks north of SR 28(tanker trucks and buses stop), all of the driveways on the road (this means school buses stop), and farm equipment using the highway in the spring and fall. At least two of these issues are reported to be in line for resolution.
My opinion is that US 31 should be upgraded to freeway standards from US 24 to Kokomo, from Kokomo to SR 38, and then selective upgrades north of US 24. Specific areas north of US 24 include interchanges for that stoplight at the truck stop which is dangerous for many reasons, SR 10, and around Plymouth. THe SR 110 intersection can be problematic with trucks entering and leaving the highway.
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 11, 2016, 07:39:30 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2016, 09:56:29 PM
I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.
Again I say -- not everything needs to be a full freeway. And this route certainly doesn't.
Thank you. I drive New Albany/Jeffersonville to South Bend several times per year. I get far more frustrated at the lack of a 3rd lane on 65 betweeen Sellersbug and Greenwood than I do at the few stoplights that are left on 31.
I think it would be really cool to see an interstate in the county where I grew up (Marshall County) but I don't think it's necessary. Although they could make 31 from the ITR to Plymouth I-180 without doing the rest of the upgrades.
Obviously, improvements cannot be limited to one highway like I-65 or to one region. If that were the case, almost all highway funding would be focused on the most populous cities.
If you want to go by the highest traffic counts, I-69 from SR 32 to Pendleton (SR 38) is the inter-city Interstate highway in greatest need of widening - much more than I-65 south of Franklin. After that, I-465 has sections that need to be widened. But the state can and should upgrade certain highways throughout the state as has been the policy by at least Daniels and Pence.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 10, 2016, 09:56:29 PM
I just drove this route today (Indy to South Bend). I will state again, for the record, that converting existing US 31 to a full freeway would be a total and complete waste of money. There are probably fewer than 10 traffic lights on the route (I didn't think to count them) and traffic flows very, very well. North of Kokomo there was very little traffic. I was driving at 65-70 on a mostly 60-mph road and was being passed by quite a few vehicles.
There are six stoplights. From Indy to Kokomo (or US 24) is frequently a very busy highway because of commuters living in Kokomo and working in Indy and vice versa. I spent the day down in the Indy area today, and as we were driving back north in heavy traffic just after 6:00 pm, I mentioned to my wife (who is certainly no road geek) that some guy on this road forum keeps saying US 31 is perfectly good the way it is. No offense, but her reaction was "what an idiot" because the assertion is so outrageous. People who live here and frequently drive on the road know the heavy traffic and understand the deadly accidents that have occurred. Locals know full well that this road is a big problem as it exists today.
One of the best ways to assess needs and compare with other highways is to simply look at the traffic count maps. Here are some traffic counts from Indiana and other states to consider and compare:
Non-freeway portion of US 31 in Indiana
| North of SR 38 | 27,010 |
| South of SR 931 (S) | 24,075 |
| At Grissom ARB | 23,661 |
| South of US 24 | 22,238 |
| North of US 24 | 14,275 |
| South of Rochester | 10,938 |
| South of SR 10 | 16,194 |
| South of US 30 | 16,024 |
Selected Indiana freeway traffic counts (similar or lower traffic volumes):
| I-64 | East of I-69 | 16,342 |
| I-64 | East of US 41 | 17,353 |
| I-64 | East of SR 65 | 13,551 |
| I-64 | East of SR 69 | 12,696 |
| I-64 | West of US 231 | 15,803 |
| I-64 | East of SR 37 | 17,034 |
| I-69 | South of Michigan line | 19,979 |
| I-69 | East of SR 37 inchg. | 9807 |
| I-69 | East of US 231 | 6301 |
| I-69 | North of Sr 56 | 6056 |
| I-69 | South of SR 168 | 14,700 |
| I-69 | South of I-64 | 27,913 |
| I-74 | East of Greensburg | 23,525 |
| I-74 | West of Batesville | 24,847 |
| I-74 | East of Pittsboro | 23,098 |
| I-74 | East of Crawfordsville | 16,029 |
| I-74 | East of SR 63 | 17,074 |
| I-80/90 | East of US 31 | 29,750 |
| I-80/90 | West of US 131 | 25,340 |
| I-80/90 | Between I-69 and SR 9 | 22,300 |
Imagine the Indiana Toll Road, I-64, or I-74 having driveways, stoplights, and railroad crossings.
Selected Michigan freeway traffic counts:
| US 31 | At US 12 | 17400 |
| US 31 | N of Walton Rd | 16,300 |
| US 31 | West of Berrien Springs | 14,600 |
| US 31 | N of Tabor Rd | 9900 |
| US 31 | N of Montague | 8000-12,000 |
| US 31 | S of Napier Rd. | 7900 |
| I-196 | N of I-94 | 22,000 |
| I-196 | W of M-140 | 19,400 |
| I-196 | At M-89 | 22,600 |
| US 131 | N of Reed City | 7500-12,000 |
| US 127 | S of I-75 | as low as 4800 |
Selected Illinois freeway traffic counts:
| I-55 | N of Ill 138 | 22,000 |
| I-72 | West of Decatur | 13,400-22,000 |
| I-72 | East of Decatur | 10,900-15,100 |
| I-74 | East of Bloomington | 19,500 |
| I-74 | East of Galesburg | 14,100 |
| I-74 | North of Galesburg | 13,600 |
| I-172 | South of US 24 in Quincy | 6900 |
| US 67 | N of Ill 255 | 10,600 |
Selected Kentucky freeway traffic counts:
I-24 | Lyon County | 22,168 |
| I-64 | West of US 60 | 25,116 |
| I-69 | East of Pennyrile | 10,278 |
| I-69 | North of Madisonville | 16,168 |
| I-69 | North of Sebree | 11,087 |
| I-69 | South of Audobon Pkwy | 19,520 |
| US 60 | Just east of Owensboro | 14,600 |
| Natcher | North of Bowling Green | 11,035 |
| Natcher | South of WK | 7240 |
| Mtn | East of Ky 974 | 12,557 |
| Pur | N of Fulton | 6604 |
| Pur | N of Mayfield | 7241 |
| WK | East of Bardstown | 10,969 |
| WK | At Leitchfield | 11,775 |
| WK | West of Leitchfield | 9750 |
| WK | Rockport | 10,175 |
| WK | East of I-69 | 10,504 |
Maybe a couple of stoplights on I-64 in Winchester might be good.
To say none of US 31 needs to be upgraded cannot be supported by facts. How much to upgrade the part north of US 24 is debatable, but clearly other states have built freeways carrying significantly less traffic than US 31.
Thank you for posting this. I'd like to add that sometimes raw traffic figures don't tell the whole story. I live in Grand Rapids and have family living in Indianapolis. I prefer to take the shorter route, I-196 to US 31 to Indy and back, but the rest of my family, and I suspect many other people too, prefer taking I-96 to I-69, even though it's much longer and usually takes more time. People don't like having to stop and will drive miles out of the way to avoid doing so. So simply looking at traffic count numbers may not always tell the whole story, because people may be intentionally avoiding a route they would obviously take if it were indeed a freeway all the way through.
Traffic signals have no business on a rural highway with AADT > 20,000, period. Yes, the highway can handle the traffic, to a point. But it won't do so safely. The more work put into removing traffic signals on US 31, the greater the accident rate at the remaining signals will be.
It's one thing to have them in a suburban setting, when there's few heavy trucks, a lower speed limit, and the expectation you will encounter a signal. It's quite another on rural highways where such stops are few and far between.
Signs were up and crews were striping the SR 28 interchange today. Opening should be soon! Today's Kokomo Tribune article again stated INDOT's goal Of a "free flowing traffic system unhindered by stoplights" on US 31 from INDY to South Bend.
Indiana would be better served by a better pavement maintenance program instead of turning US 31 into a freeway. Much of US 31, US 20 and US 33 that I drove on last weekend is riddled with potholes and cracks.
I say give up the Interstate 67 fantasies for the US 31 corridor. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Have a nice day!
US31 is six-lanes between Kern Rd and US20 in South Bend. Was the Kern interchange built to carry more lanes one day? This bridge looks to me like it was built to be able to carry more lanes...
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6083667,-86.2578149,3a,62.3y,72.26h,84.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9Zjm8FCTbpxH4yLwcmbzaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 15, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
What would be the purpose of it? Traffic from the west will take I-65 to Indy and traffic from the east will take I-69. It'd be a completely regional route, which in my view doesn't necessitate an Interstate designation.
When I was truck driving back and forth between Kalamazoo and Murfreesboro TN, US 31 in Hoosier was the most direct route.
Quote from: roadfan6500 on February 07, 2018, 09:08:55 PM
US31 is six-lanes between Kern Rd and US20 in South Bend. Was the Kern interchange built to carry more lanes one day? This bridge looks to me like it was built to be able to carry more lanes...
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6083667,-86.2578149,3a,62.3y,72.26h,84.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9Zjm8FCTbpxH4yLwcmbzaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
That's a safe bet. The thinking is that it's less disruptive (and costly) to build a wider bridge if traffic projections indicated a need for a wider road in the relatively near future.
For example, when WisDOT rebuilt bridges on I-39/90 in southern Wisconsin roughly a decade ago, they purposely built them wider in anticipation of future widening to a 6-lane highway. That mostly worked out for them, the exception being in Janesville where they anticipated a 6-lane highway but now are building an 8-lane highway. Even then, the wider bridges allowed them to carry both directions of traffic on the SBD side while they rebuild bridges on the NBD side.
The Kokomo Tribune today describes the newly announced local US31 interchanges. It also mentions that there is a plan to remove the stop light north of the US 24 interchange at 100N / truck stop. Anyone know more about this solution?
Quote from: monty on September 07, 2018, 12:52:35 PM
The Kokomo Tribune today describes the newly announced local US31 interchanges. It also mentions that there is a plan to remove the stop light north of the US 24 interchange at 100N / truck stop. Anyone know more about this solution?
Here is the article:
http://www.kokomotribune.com/news/two-new-interchanges-coming-to-u-s-in-miami-co/article_286c9ee8-b21a-11e8-b855-3b881842ce08.html
Has anyone heard what the plans are for the railroad tracks south of Plymouth??
So Indiana's going to waste money on a perfectly good expressway that's fine as it is, to eliminate two traffic lights that aren't major slowdowns.
Honestly, people, everything doesn't have to be a full freeway.
If there are accident issues, built a J-turn/Michigan left at a fraction of the cost.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 08, 2018, 09:10:41 PM
So Indiana's going to waste money on a perfectly good expressway that's fine as it is, to eliminate two traffic lights that aren't major slowdowns.
Honestly, people, everything doesn't have to be a full freeway.
If there are accident issues, built a J-turn/Michigan left at a fraction of the cost.
INDOT tried Jturns, problem is residents HATE them, like REALLY hate them. they backed off doing that to the 10 and 110 junctions with 31.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 08, 2018, 09:10:41 PM
So Indiana's going to waste money on a perfectly good expressway that's fine as it is, to eliminate two traffic lights that aren't major slowdowns.
Honestly, people, everything doesn't have to be a full freeway.
US-31 at IN-18 has a AADT of ~ 25,000 vpd, with about 4,000 of that traffic heavy trucks. Down toward Carmel, at the pending 236th St. interchange, AADT is ~29,000 vpd with ~5,800 heavy trucks. This is at a traffic level at which other states would have already had a full freeway in place long ago.
The heavy truck traffic doesn't drop off north of US-24, even if total traffic is lower - ~14,000 vpd. The proposed traffic light removal at 100 North is within 1000 feet of a freeway-to-freeway interchange.
I would argue that stoplights have no business whatsoever being on this road. US-31 is the main connection between two large urban areas of the state, as well as one of two major highways connecting the rest of Indiana to Michigan (I-94 functions mainly as a Illinois-to-Michigan connection). Putting in interchanges is, IMHO, not a "waste".
I think it's perfectly reasonable to remove the remaining stoplights, but the Interstate designation is unnecessary.
It will be interesting to see how Michigan goes forward with the gap at Benton Harbor.
Quote from: 2trailertrucker on September 09, 2018, 01:52:26 PM
It will be interesting to see how Michigan goes forward with the gap at Benton Harbor.
Last I heard anything about it was on this thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18276.0
Not sure when they plan on doing construction on this.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 08, 2018, 09:10:41 PM
So Indiana's going to waste money on a perfectly good expressway that's fine as it is, to eliminate two traffic lights that aren't major slowdowns.
Honestly, people, everything doesn't have to be a full freeway.
Agreed, but they've already wasted a ton of $$$ on I-69, so what's a few hundred million more making US 31 into full interstate standards? :-/
They are just eliminating two traffic lights right now. There is no talk about eliminating all at-grade crossings. I think we are still a long ways away from a full conversion to a freeway for all of US 31. I'm under the impression that I-67 is not a thing INDOT is taking seriously, but creating an expressway where you can travel from Indy to South Bend without coming to a stop.
The I 67 designation is one that INDOT has zero interest. Neither does the US 31 Coalition. But a common goal for both is a non-stop route from Indy to South Bend. The Coalition continues to advocate the ultimate completion of a highway built to / near interstate highway standards. If you look at all the improvements made over the past ten years, they have been built to fit that standard. Gov Holcomb has committed to his "no stops on 31" slogan. As one who has often commuted to Indy on this highway, I assure you that the 236th St light is a dangerous one and a traffic choke point. I've seen traffic backed up to SR 38 just trying to clear this stoplight.
are there any plans released for the 236th interchange? it sounds like that has been in the works for a while unlike the ones just announced.
Quote from: mvak36 on September 09, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: 2trailertrucker on September 09, 2018, 01:52:26 PM
It will be interesting to see how Michigan goes forward with the gap at Benton Harbor.
Last I heard anything about it was on this thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18276.0
Not sure when they plan on doing construction on this.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on May 26, 2018, 11:28:46 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on May 18, 2018, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 14, 2018, 06:42:33 PM
Will they at least complete the US 31 freeway between Napier Avenue and Interstate 94 within the next 50 years?
Define "complete." Most recent plan (unfunded and unscheduled) is to extend the freeway and turn it west to intersect with I-94 and Business I-94 (exit 33) at a new cloverleaf interchange, with C/D lanes between there and I-196/US-31 (exit 34).
I stand corrected. In MDOT's current five-year plan 2018-2022, this appears to be scheduled for construction in 2021. I missed it when looking earlier.
From Michigan Notes.
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 09, 2018, 10:12:03 PM
are there any plans released for the 236th interchange? it sounds like that has been in the works for a while unlike the ones just announced.
I don't know if there are any plans out there on what the interchange would look like but I'd pay good, good money that it will be a roundabout style interchange. Anything else would be a complete surprise.
if they are upgrading the 236th signal to an interchange, what happens with 216th and 226th st? will they remain at grade for the foreseeable future?
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 09, 2018, 06:54:56 PM
They are just eliminating two traffic lights right now. There is no talk about eliminating all at-grade crossings. I think we are still a long ways away from a full conversion to a freeway for all of US 31. I'm under the impression that I-67 is not a thing INDOT is taking seriously, but creating an expressway where you can travel from Indy to South Bend without coming to a stop.
When INDOT was finished with the construction, I sent a tweet to INDOT stating that a "Prepare to Stop" warning for that light, since it is at the bottom of a hill and could not be seen.
INDOT boo hooed it, but put up "Expressway Ends" signs instead.
The current US 31 resurfacing project is nearing completion. I noticed that the project did not include new pavement where the proposed bridge over the NSRR is to be built. Anyone know when this bridge project is to start?
Quote from: 2trailertrucker on September 11, 2018, 05:46:37 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 09, 2018, 06:54:56 PM
They are just eliminating two traffic lights right now. There is no talk about eliminating all at-grade crossings. I think we are still a long ways away from a full conversion to a freeway for all of US 31. I'm under the impression that I-67 is not a thing INDOT is taking seriously, but creating an expressway where you can travel from Indy to South Bend without coming to a stop.
When INDOT was finished with the construction, I sent a tweet to INDOT stating that a “Prepare to Stop” warning for that light, since it is at the bottom of a hill and could not be seen.
INDOT boo hooed it, but put up “Expressway Ends” signs instead.
US-31 between Indy and South Bend won't be an interstate any time soon. The projects INDOT is talking about will enable non-stop travel along the corridor, similar to US-101 between Los Angeles and San Francisco (still has at-grade intersections and driveways in certain places, but thru-travel along this section is non-stop).
Quote from: abqtraveler on September 18, 2018, 12:10:47 PM
US-31 between Indy and South Bend won't be an interstate any time soon. The projects INDOT is talking about will enable non-stop travel along the corridor, similar to US-101 between Los Angeles and San Francisco (still has at-grade intersections and driveways in certain places, but thru-travel alogn this section is non-stop).
As a general rule of thumb -- state DOT's, with the exception of NC, have little interest on their own in pursuing Interstate designations for their corridors; these days, most have too much on their plates to add a series of multi-million (or in some cases, multi-billion!) dollar projects (which corridors invariably require) to the mix. Such designations are pursued by regional political interests either to draw attention to the area -- as a PR move to hopefully draw investment dollars into the area with a new Interstate corridor serving as the "centerpiece", or in a situation loosely characterized as "reparations" for
not being previously served by the network. But usually one of the ingredients for actual success in designating a new Interstate has been the presence of a sizeable metro area along the corridor's length to serve as an additional attractant to such investment -- a location for potential personnel to live, shop, and recreate. I-49 has NWA and Texarkana, I-22 had Tupelo and its brand-new Toyota plant, and 2/3 of I-69 has the lower Rio Grande Valley. US 31 has Kokomo, already bypassed but not considered a business attractant (too far from major rail corridors) -- and that's about all; South Bend/Elkhart is already sitting along I-80/90 and probably is relatively indifferent about a Indy connection. If the "US 31 Coalition" wanted to elevate their route to I-67,
that designation would be a part of their name. There just isn't a grass-roots movement to do so the equivalent of the I-14 backers in TX, who at least have a string of cities backing their efforts. There's really nobody to promote an Interstate upgrade; MI, despite having almost all of their potential corridor portion completed, is equally indifferent. DOT's -- even in TX -- won't even consider a move without a constant and consistent stream of outside support; this hasn't occurred yet in IN -- quite possibly because there isn't an identified "center" that would potentially reap outsized benefits from development of a new Interstate corridor. Not that it will never happen -- but right now it just isn't in the cards.