I was always curious how it worked when the Interstate system was being built: did they put, say, I-90 shields on US 16 (while it was still two lanes) or did they finish the road then sign it? And how about when the road was built but it was still an expressway, with intersections? Was it still, say, I-90 when there were still intersections? Anybody have any good sites or photos that show any of this?
Back when the original system was laid out, there were TEMP signs on surface roads that connected two separate sections of the same Interstate until the freeway bypass was built (TEMP I-85 in NC is a prime example). Nowadays, they've been replaced by Future Interstate signs (I-11 and I-69), which may or may not become actual Interstate corridors in the future.
Quote from: Henry on March 22, 2016, 06:29:11 PM
Back when the original system was laid out, there were TEMP signs on surface roads that connected two separate sections of the same Interstate until the freeway bypass was built (TEMP I-85 in NC is a prime example).
Another one, a long-standing one, was TEMP I-69 in Michigan signed along US-27 and M-78.
In the early 1970s, I lived near Temporary I-15 in southern California, signed as such on what then was part of US 395 down to San Diego, while the permanent I-15 segments were being built. I-15 between San Diego and San Bernadino was a late addition to the original Interstate system.
Kentucky used "TO" signs. The gaps with which I'm most familiar were on I-64 between Frankfort and Lexington and between Grayson and the US 60 exit near the Boyd/Carter county line. In both cases, "To I-64" was signed on US 68, but my dad preferred to take US 421 between Lexington and Frankfort. It's two-lane instead of four-lane, but is a bit shorter and my dad didn't like the old narrow median on portions of US 60.
There were TO I-95 signs tacked on US 301 all the way through Virginia and the Carolinas when I was growing up and watching the road get built.
Quote from: DeaconG on March 22, 2016, 08:27:28 PM
There were TO I-95 signs tacked on US 301 all the way through Virginia and the Carolinas when I was growing up and watching the road get built.
There were also TO I-95 signs on the NJTP between Exits 7A and 10 until the official cancellation of the Somerset Freeway in the late 90's. The TO on these signs were replaced with directional assurance signs. There were still TO I-95 signs on I-195 west of the NJTP and I-295 north of I-195. These will all go away when the PA Turnpike interchange is completed.
Quote from: oscar on March 22, 2016, 07:44:51 PM
In the early 1970s, I lived near Temporary I-15 in southern California, signed as such on what then was part of US 395 down to San Diego, while the permanent I-15 segments were being built. I-15 between San Diego and San Bernadino was a late addition to the original Interstate system.
I recall the I-15E signs when I was stationed at March AFB in the mid-Seventies. The US 395 signs were still up but they would soon disappear...
Rick
I was asking some similar questions in a thread some time ago. You might find some of the responses helpful: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9196.0
I was but a kid, but I recall going over the Aksarben Bridge, Omaha/CB, while the i-480 bridge was under construction. On the east approach they ripped out the Playland Park roller coaster (double track!!) and you could see sheet piling down in the water were the piers were being built. There was a crane sticking up, pf course. As I recall, the I-beams were barged up the river (components of the Ft. Calhoun Nuclear Plant were also barged). For many years, the I-480 only crossed the Missouri and all traffic WB had to exit immediately upon crossing the Missouri, the remainder of the bridge wasn't started for quite a while. The local channel 6 had some 'B' roll footage they used all the time of traffic east bound heading up the ramp from the Nebraska side to cross the new bridge.
There was some grumbling at the time about no concession for pedestrians on the new bridge, you would occasionally see someone walk across. Good way to get run over, as there was another one just a few weeks ago. When a pedestrian crossing was finally deemed ok, instead of inexpensively slinging it from the existing 480 bridge, a new cable stayed form was built a ways north. Unfortunately (to my eyes at least) the main span and towers of the new ped bridge are not centered on the river and it looks lopsided from the 480 bridge. A 25 million dollar eye sore for those of us that like things just so.
:-D
My mother told me that on a trip (I don't know where, I would have been a young child) we were on a new freeway, but the bridges were not all complete. So they had to get off and back on at the exits.
Tman, I can remember taking a trip to South Dakota from Wisconsin and there were big signs on US 16 telling you how far the gap was to the next completed portion of I-90. I don't remember seeing any "To" signs, but I was pretty young and that doesn't mean that they were not there. Would love to find a picture of those signs...
I remember when I-95 was incomplete between NJ and FL. No TO signs were present, if I remember correctly (and I say that just in case one troll on here has an old photo and likes to show it just to tell that I need to show proof myself that there was not before saying I therefore should not be commenting here), it was like it was the norm as in most places I-95 travelers were US 301 users previously. Most knew back that interstate 95, at least between Santee, SC and Petersburg, VA that it was the bypass for US 301 when it was being built. It ended usually at US 301 in each segment and the current Gold Rock Interchange where it once ended for years did have a " TO US 301" shield as that was enough.
I do remember though that before the section of I-95 was completed in GA between US 25/341 and US 17/84 (US 82 was not yet routed there) that it did have signs directing you between the two ends along GA 303 and the exit guide for US 25/341 South did have "Florida" as a control city where you were directed off.
In Virginia between Exits 41 and 12 on I-95, the freeway just had ends signs about one half mile before the freeway defaulted onto the four lane US 301 arterial, but no signs letting you know that 301 will bring you back to it. Ditto for I-64 west of Williamsburg where the freeway used to default into the former VA 168 arterial it was not signed with anything between the two freeway ends.
Anyway, for the OP I have to say its like I-49 is presently. As you know US 71 is the road its taking away from so in between Texarkana and Fort Smith and north of Fayetteville, AR and just north of the AR/MO line it has two segments that are yet to be completed where you still use US 71.
Then I-69 is another as its a long extension of its previous routing. Of course from its end near Tunica, MS and where it ends north of Houston, I even doubt there are signs in between yet as no direct US or local highway connects the two ends and the corridor yet has not been established. Even in Indiana, I saw on GSV when the Google car was on the northern end of I-69 that no signs that I saw directing you back to I-69 north of Indy. Most likely its because there was no real previous corridor between Evansville and Indianapolis where the new freeway now became part of yet. The first phase of I-69 south of Indy is just currently a regional freeway used mainly by locals until it at least gets to Bloomington. At that point I am sure IN 69 will be signed and even at current Exit 200 near Indianapolis we might see signs directing you to go clockwise on I-465 to IN 69 with follow up trailblazing.
Basically we still have interstates to be built, so the only difference now than then was maybe that we did not have future interstate shields along the way back in the hey day.
Quote from: Henry on March 22, 2016, 06:29:11 PM
Back when the original system was laid out, there were TEMP signs on surface roads that connected two separate sections of the same Interstate until the freeway bypass was built (TEMP I-85 in NC is a prime example). Nowadays, they've been replaced by Future Interstate signs (I-11 and I-69), which may or may not become actual Interstate corridors in the future.
Not really... TEMP signs denoted a detour traffic could use along local streets when a segment wasn't built yet. Future denotes a freeway that will be added to the interstate system when it (and all necessary connecting segments) has been upgraded to meet interstate standards. Two completely different things.
Quote from: vdeane on March 23, 2016, 12:44:32 PM
Quote from: Henry on March 22, 2016, 06:29:11 PM
Back when the original system was laid out, there were TEMP signs on surface roads that connected two separate sections of the same Interstate until the freeway bypass was built (TEMP I-85 in NC is a prime example). Nowadays, they've been replaced by Future Interstate signs (I-11 and I-69), which may or may not become actual Interstate corridors in the future.
Not really... TEMP signs denoted a detour traffic could use along local streets when a segment wasn't built yet. Future denotes a freeway that will be added to the interstate system when it (and all necessary connecting segments) has been upgraded to meet interstate standards. Two completely different things.
You are correct for the most part, but they also post "Future Instate Corridor" signs on some stretches of adjacent highways. Example of this is found in South Carolina with I-73 along US 501.
How was I-64's gap from Beckley to Sam Black Church signed? I don't remember how much, if any, I-64 signage was located on US 60 before the gap was finished in the 80s. We were only on that stretch of US 60 once, and I have no memory of it, except for my dad saying it took four hours to drive from White Sulphur Springs to Charleston.
There were also two gaps in I-40 in western North Carolina that I can remember. One was from US 276 in the Canton/Clyde area west of Asheville, and one was in the Old Fort/Black Mountain area east of Asheville. I cannot remember how they were signed.
Another gap I remember from childhood vacations was I-75 in Georgia, just north of Atlanta.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 23, 2016, 09:25:08 AM
I remember when I-95 was incomplete between NJ and FL. No TO signs were present, if I remember correctly (and I say that just in case one troll on here has an old photo and likes to show it just to tell that I need to show proof myself that there was not before saying I therefore should not be commenting here), it was like it was the norm as in most places I-95 travelers were US 301 users previously. Most knew back that interstate 95, at least between Santee, SC and Petersburg, VA that it was the bypass for US 301 when it was being built. It ended usually at US 301 in each segment and the current Gold Rock Interchange where it once ended for years did have a " TO US 301" shield as that was enough.
I do remember though that before the section of I-95 was completed in GA between US 25/341 and US 17/84 (US 82 was not yet routed there) that it did have signs directing you between the two ends along GA 303 and the exit guide for US 25/341 South did have "Florida" as a control city where you were directed off.
In Virginia between Exits 41 and 12 on I-95, the freeway just had ends signs about one half mile before the freeway defaulted onto the four lane US 301 arterial, but no signs letting you know that 301 will bring you back to it. Ditto for I-64 west of Williamsburg where the freeway used to default into the former VA 168 arterial it was not signed with anything between the two freeway ends.
Anyway, for the OP I have to say its like I-49 is presently. As you know US 71 is the road its taking away from so in between Texarkana and Fort Smith and north of Fayetteville, AR and just north of the AR/MO line it has two segments that are yet to be completed where you still use US 71.
Then I-69 is another as its a long extension of its previous routing. Of course from its end near Tunica, MS and where it ends north of Houston, I even doubt there are signs in between yet as no direct US or local highway connects the two ends and the corridor yet has not been established. Even in Indiana, I saw on GSV when the Google car was on the northern end of I-69 that no signs that I saw directing you back to I-69 north of Indy. Most likely its because there was no real previous corridor between Evansville and Indianapolis where the new freeway now became part of yet. The first phase of I-69 south of Indy is just currently a regional freeway used mainly by locals until it at least gets to Bloomington. At that point I am sure IN 69 will be signed and even at current Exit 200 near Indianapolis we might see signs directing you to go clockwise on I-465 to IN 69 with follow up trailblazing.
Basically we still have interstates to be built, so the only difference now than then was maybe that we did not have future interstate shields along the way back in the hey day.
I remember these. A few months ago I drove alone from MD back to Jax. I was able to checkout the remaining 4 Lane section of 301 North of Emporia. Fayetteville was like Virginia.. 95 just transited into 301. I also remembet sitting in traffic on the 2 Lane US 17 waiting to cross bridge into Savannah, first time I saw a car wreck happen. The car in front of us tried to avoid re end collision and hit a.pole.
I was 7 or 8 when 95 was complete between DC and FL
Prior to I-95 being rerouted onto 128 in the Greater Boston area (& prior to the completion of the Peabody I-95/MA 128 interchange); US 1 northbound north of MA 60/Revere would have TO NORTH 95 trailblazers periodically from there to I-95 (originally up to the Danvers/Topsfield interchange (Exit 50) then later just up to the Peabody (Exit 46) interchange).
While the Northeast Expressway was officially part of I-95, prior to it becoming US 1; the old button-copy BGS' (some of which were only taken down a few years ago) still read TO 95 NORTH.
Along the Central Artery itself (again, such was considered to be part of I-95 though not yet signed as such); there were a couple of white TO SOUTH 95 unisigns posted in the southbound direction. I don't believe there was any northbound trailblazer signage for I-95 along the Artery prior to the erection of the early-70s vintage BGS at the old I-93 split that originally read 95 NORTH Charlestown Revere.
South of the Artery (along the Southeast Expressway), one would not see any I-95 signage until the Braintree split. The southbound exit BGS for then-Route 128 northbound included TO 95 references. Along 128 northbound (now I-93 southbound); there were periodic TO 95 trailblazer signs until the I-95 Canton interchange. For a brief period during the early 70s, between the time the Southwest Expressway (I-95) project was canned but the extension of the Northeast Expressway (also I-95) project was still on life support, the fore-mentioned trailblazer signs were stripped of the TO banners. The I-95 trailblazer signs from Braintree to Canton would disappear altogether when this stretch of 128 became cosigned with I-93.
Quote from: PHLBOS on March 23, 2016, 02:01:08 PM
While the Northeast Expressway was officially part of I-95, prior to it becoming US 1; the old button-copy BGS' (some of which were only taken down a few years ago) still read TO 95 NORTH.
The last of these signs was on the Tobin Bridge northbound just prior to the curve in Chelsea. It was taken down as part of Massport's sign replacement project in the early 2000s.
Quote
Along the Central Artery itself (again, such was considered to be part of I-95 though not yet signed as such); there were a couple of white TO SOUTH 95 unisigns posted in the southbound direction. I don't believe there was any northbound trailblazer signage for I-95 along the Artery prior to the erection of the early-70s vintage BGS at the old I-93 split that originally read 95 NORTH Charlestown Revere.
For a brief time in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the elevated Central Artery had actual I-95 confirmatory markers, without any disclaimers like 'TO' or 'TEMP'. The signs on the Lower Deck (now I-93, originally part of the cancelled I-695) for the Tobin Bridge exit ramp (demolished in 1988) originally read "JCT 95" as well.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2016, 01:22:11 PM
How was I-64's gap from Beckley to Sam Black Church signed?
As you know, 64 was one of the last interstates completed where the alternative was 2 lane. It also, from Sam Black Church to Charleston, follows a totally different path than US 60, continuing due west to Beckley and then multiplexing with the WV Turnpike (I-77) to Charleston. The gap (which has a political history, of course) was finished all at once, in 1988.
Heading west, WV used its standard practice. You were forced down the Sam Black Church off ramp and at the bottom was simply a sign reading "Charleston" and a right arrow. That was it. You followed US 60 to Charleston, with no further signage, AFAIR. That was consistant with WV practice on other interstates which were, mostly, built towards Charleston rather than from it (i.e. the sections nearest Charleston are the newest.) You just got dumped down a ramp and followeed US 21 or US 119 or whatever and were supposed to figure it out.
Heading east was more complex, because the interstate did not really end. The two lane turnpike was there, and eventually the four lane modern one was there, which connects seamlessly. So here is a motorist driving down the interstate and never forced off it, but suddenly on I-77 alone, not I-64.
So it was like this. There was a sign in Dunbar that simply read "I-64 ENDS - 8 MILES AHEAD - USE US 60". Then at what is today the Belle exit (which was once the end of the Turnpike) the exit signage read "END I-64 - USE US 60 - Lewisburg" and the non-exit side "I-77 - Beckley - Toll Road - WV Turnpike" (earlier version added a "TO" above the I-77) . There were a few "TO I-64" signs on the very first few miles of US 60 east of there, but it was the same deal, you just had to know US 60 took you to Lewisburg.
South (theoretically east) of that point on the WV Turnpike, as it was completed to interstate standards, all of the signage has just I-77 shields, which were off-center, because there was a space for the I-64 shield to be put up. The day the road opened, the Turnpike had 100s of 64 shields ready and multiple crews that went up the whole 50 miles and put the 64 shields in their proper place. Had it done in a day.
In Texas, back in the 1960's and 70's, I think I remember sections of US highways that were signed as the Interstate despite not being fully up to Interstate standards. I remember divided highways with at-grade crossovers along segments of I-10, I-20, I-35 and I-45. I think I also remember "TO I-45" signage along US 75 where it was sort of a wide surface street. I think....
More recently I have definitely seen "FUTURE" signage along the I-69 corridors.
Just before the 1977 renumbering, all Interstates in Utah were assigned the state route numbers 1-5. I-15 was SR-1, I-80 was SR-2, I-80N (AKA I-84) was SR-3, I-70 was SR-4, and I-215 was SR-5.
I wasn't alive or old enough to see it happen, but there are a couple (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ut/us_89/s4.jpg) of pictures (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ut/us_89/n4.jpg) of UT-4 shields near the current US-89/I-70 junction near Sevier, and another one (https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6070/6095104674_035324b941_o.jpg) of TEMP I-15 at Scipio where US-50 met (Temp) I-15, but there were no UT-1 shields that I could find. I'd love to see if there ever were any other routes 1-5 shields from this time.
(UT-4 Shields from UT-4 Shields are from the AlpsRoads' Utah US-89 Page (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ut/us_89/) and TEMP I-15/US-50 junction from CL's Photostream. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/33970903@N02/6095104674))
When I-96 ended between 8 and 9 mile, I-96 was signed on Grand River as BS-96 as I-96 from I-75 to I-275 was being built. Besides BS-96 in Detroit, was any interstates signed on Business routes as the bypasses was being built?
The level of detail on some of these responses is mind-boggling, and interesting. Curious if the OP expected this kind of response, or whether he's just sitting back going "wow"...
I have vague memories of "ALL TRAFFIC MUST EXIT" warnings on Interstates where you were approaching a stretch that wasn't open yet.
There were a few localized things too, like the control city for KY 9 off I-275 used to be Newport, not Wilder/Maysville.
Quote from: davewiecking on March 23, 2016, 08:17:31 PM
The level of detail on some of these responses is mind-boggling, and interesting. Curious if the OP expected this kind of response, or whether he's just sitting back going "wow"...
The second option :-D
Anybody have or know of any good pictures that depict some of this??? Thanks.
I vaguely remember a TEMP END I-90 sign on a stretch of I-90 somewhere out west in the mid- to late 70s.
The first time I came to New Bern from Chicago when my aunt moved here in 1983 I can remember being forced off of I-40 somewhere west of Raleigh, my mom seems to feel it was Wade Ave (?). We were then on many surface streets until we picked up US-70 (now US-70 Business off of Exit 306). I can definitely remember an "All Traffic Must Exit" sign just prior to us leaving the interstate.
I have similar memories of a "Must Exit" sign on I-196 in Michigan from the early 70's. It was complete from I-96 down to M-21 (now M-121) Chicago Drive in Grandville/Jenison and all traffic was forced to exit at M-21 (through traffic was westbound towards Jenison, with a separate ramp to go eastbound towards Grandville and Wyoming). I was very young (maybe 3 or 4) when they finally did the full interchange with bridges for I-196 carriageways over Chicago Drive and then about 5 years old when the rest of the freeway opened from M-21 to I-94
For several years, I-29 stopped at Hwy 30 at Missouri Valley, IA and didn't resume again until 175 at Onawa. I spent much time wondering how they were going to route it in between, how they could get past some obstacles (2, and then 3 railroad tracks) and some rivers, and the disruption to the farms in between too.
As it turned out, I had a relative loose some farm land to it, and it messed up his irrigation set up. Crossing the C&NW mainline just north of Hwy 30 was accomplished with an ENORMOUS amount of dirt, and they had the foresight then to build the overpass with sufficient room for an eventual double track, which finally happened in '98 or 2000.
There was great anticipation as the various segments were built, and opening ceremonies were big deals, old time cars, local and state dignitaries, TV and newspaper coverage, it was just fun!!
As I've noted here a few times, a segment of I-29 just north of Sioux City, IA was only open a few months when the NB bridge over the Big Sioux River collapsed. As I recall, the interstate was only open a few miles further to the next exit, so the bridge failure wasn't the calamity then it would be now.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Fsiouxcityjournal.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2F5%2Fcd%2F5cd7c526-9968-5d57-a520-5eba841e8542%2F5101ad88d8a84.image.jpg&hash=11e30dde1070989c6d4f7d6823b2e014712deb0a)
I vaguely recall a sign near St Louis saying something like "I-44 Ends. Continue on US 66"
In Illinois, I-55 was posted along the complete sections, US 66 on the non-complete.
According to this Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Interstate_Highways), the last of the TEMP Interstates (I-77 around Columbia, SC) was removed in 1996. It was one of three (I-15 and I-69 are the others) to still be signed as such in 1990.
Quote from: SP Cook on March 23, 2016, 02:13:16 PM
Heading east was more complex, because the interstate did not really end. The two lane turnpike was there, and eventually the four lane modern one was there, which connects seamlessly. So here is a motorist driving down the interstate and never forced off it, but suddenly on I-77 alone, not I-64.
So it was like this. There was a sign in Dunbar that simply read "I-64 ENDS - 8 MILES AHEAD - USE US 60". Then at what is today the Belle exit (which was once the end of the Turnpike) the exit signage read "END I-64 - USE US 60 - Lewisburg" and the non-exit side "I-77 - Beckley - Toll Road - WV Turnpike" (earlier version added a "TO" above the I-77) . There were a few "TO I-64" signs on the very first few miles of US 60 east of there, but it was the same deal, you just had to know US 60 took you to Lewisburg.
South (theoretically east) of that point on the WV Turnpike, as it was completed to interstate standards, all of the signage has just I-77 shields, which were off-center, because there was a space for the I-64 shield to be put up. The day the road opened, the Turnpike had 100s of 64 shields ready and multiple crews that went up the whole 50 miles and put the 64 shields in their proper place. Had it done in a day.
That was what I was wondering about. Most maps of that vintage showed both I-77 and I-64 on the turnpike between Charleston and Beckley, and the proposed routing of I-64 east of Beckley to tie in to the Sam Black Church/Lewisburg segment. Of course, there's really no good route east of Beckley to connect to Lewisburg, so I wondered how 64 was signed, if at all, south of the Yeager Bridge.
Quote from: Henry on March 24, 2016, 10:18:42 AM
According to this Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Interstate_Highways), the last of the TEMP Interstates (I-77 around Columbia, SC) was removed in 1996. It was one of three (I-15 and I-69 are the others) to still be signed as such in 1990.
It's true: http://route.transportation.org/Documents/1995-USRN_Cmte.pdf (http://route.transportation.org/Documents/1995-USRN_Cmte.pdf)
Quote from: slorydn1 on March 24, 2016, 12:18:23 AM
I have similar memories of a "Must Exit" sign on I-196 in Michigan from the early 70's.
The Northeast Expressway, which was supposed to be part of I-95, originally had warning signs indicating "Barricade 2000 Feet" and "Barricade 1000 Feet" prior to the roadway's end in Revere where all traffic was forced to re-join Route C-1. The bridges that were supposed to carry the continuation of I-95 onto the fill across the Rumney Marsh had MassDPW standard large wooden barricades with flashing arrows blocking them.
The signs remained in place until the 1974 resurfacing and bridge deck replacement project between Chelsea and Revere, at which time they were removed and replaced with standard Curve signs.
The "Between the Beltways" part of I-95 in Maryland was finished well after the section north (east) of Baltimore, the JFK Highway was open, as well as I-495 around Washington, D.C. in both Maryland and Virginia.
The de-facto temporary I-95 between I-495 in the south (at Greenbelt, Maryland) and (what is now signed as) I-895, the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway, was the Baltimore-Washington Parkway. It had TO I-95 assemblies, pretty obviously installed by state forces, even on the part maintained by the National Park Service (I-495 and Md. 175 at Odenton as well as inside I-495 - between U.S. 50 and I-495). The signs on the Parkway were always NPS-spec, and the Parkway worked reasonably well, as it was (and always has been) a road with full access control.
Of course, trucks were not allowed on that federally-maintained section of the Parkway - they were expected to use U.S. 1 instead, and some may have used U.S. 29, though for most trips not as direct as U.S. 1.
When the "between the Beltways" section of I-95 opened in the early 1970's, traffic still had to use a different route through or around Baltimore. The state of Maryland has signs encouraging the use of I-695 to I-895, or for trucks that did not fit through the tunnels or were carrying placarded HAZMAT loads, they were directed to use I-695 north of Baltimore, and after the F.S. Key Bridge opened in 1977, to that
Quote from: roadman on March 23, 2016, 02:12:51 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on March 23, 2016, 02:01:08 PMAlong the Central Artery itself (again, such was considered to be part of I-95 though not yet signed as such); there were a couple of white TO SOUTH 95 unisigns posted in the southbound direction. I don't believe there was any northbound trailblazer signage for I-95 along the Artery prior to the erection of the early-70s vintage BGS at the old I-93 split that originally read 95 NORTH Charlestown Revere.
For a brief time in the late 1960s and early 1970s, the elevated Central Artery had actual I-95 confirmatory markers, without any disclaimers like 'TO' or 'TEMP'. The signs on the Lower Deck (now I-93, originally part of the cancelled I-695) for the Tobin Bridge exit ramp (demolished in 1988) originally read "JCT 95" as well.
IIRC & as previously stated, most of the signs that had I-95 confirmatory signs in that area were BGS' that were erected in the early 1970s. The only BGS older than those that had a
95 SOUTH listing (which interestingly remained untouched until 1989-90 (a
93 North & South sign replaced it)) at the southbound old pre-CANA Charlestown interchange ramp.
Beyond that, I don't recall seeing
any confirmatory I-95 signs along the Central Artery itself south of the old I-93 (original I-695) split. Granted, I was a grade-schooler at the time; but I was observing road signs even then as a passenger in either my parents' cars or school bus (for field trips).
Update: Roadman recently shared a 1972-vintage photo recently surfaced showing a reassurance SOUTH 95 assembly along the Central Artery in another thread(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FpyM8hJ5.jpg&hash=a92cc1920bba3dbf5d5222701dabc7211677b368)
Needless to say, these markers were very short lived and were taken down several years prior to the I-95 rerouting.
Edited to add: on the approach ramp from Storrow Drive to the northbound artery, there were a couple of
NORTH 93 - 95 trailblazer setups mounted on the left posts of the original overhead BGS gantries (that originally read
CHARLESTOWN - MYSTIC BRIDGE) that existed during the early 70s. Once I-95 was rerouted to go around Boston rather than through it; the I-95 shields were replaced with US 1 shields.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 24, 2016, 04:27:30 PM
The de-facto temporary I-95 between I-495 in the south (at Greenbelt, Maryland) and (what is now signed as) I-895, the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway, was the Baltimore-Washington Parkway. It had TO I-95 assemblies, pretty obviously installed by state forces, even on the part maintained by the National Park Service (I-495 and Md. 175 at Odenton as well as inside I-495 - between U.S. 50 and I-495). The signs on the Parkway were always NPS-spec, and the Parkway worked reasonably well, as it was (and always has been) a road with full access control.
A couple pics related to this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2F495vintage%2FBWPkwySat495_12.jpg&hash=80c82ba0e6b2e95bfc3838e0ce16927493b4e17d)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vahighways.com%2F495vintage%2FBWPkwySat495_13.jpg&hash=bea867988ce8b8eb15cdc76823d0c839c106d8d8)
Mike
I am 59 years old, and since I was born the year the Interstate System was funded, most of the system was being constructed into my early adulthood. My family traveled a lot by car during the 1960's and early 1970's, primarily in the south and in the midwest. I had a photographic memory for highways and maps as a kid, which is one reason I ended up becoming a Civil Engineer. During the early years of interstate construction, the completed sections of Interstate were relatively few and far between. As I recall, there were not many trailblazers in those days. You would see a trailblazer assembly or two near the interchanges along the completed sections. Most of the trailblazers at the end of the completed sections were directing travelers to the parallel roadway (usually a US Route). There were few if any trailblazers to the interstate along the US Highways between the completed sections, since until the mid to late 60's, the US Routes were still considered the primary roadways, and the traffic along them was still moderate in most cases.
By the late 60's into the 70's that began to change as the Interstate segments were longer and had more traffic, and they became the primary routes for drivers. The parallel US routes became the exception as the remaining Interstate gaps had elaborate Interstate trailblazer sinage at may locations reassuring drivers that the Interstates would "come back soon". The most prominent example that I recall was along US 41 north of Marietta which a large number of I-75 trailblazer signs, and various special signs that reassured motorists that the gap was only 25 miles at the longest and to warn of at grade intersections along the roadway, etc. That section of US 41 was four-lanes but very congested. The final 25-mile gap of I-64 in Indiana in '75-'76 had old US 460 co-signed with I-64 reassurance shields (not trailblazers), even though the old route was a bad two-lane road through rough terrain.
Is the gap between Belle Vista, AR and Pineville, MO signed along US 71?
For about 25 years, the I-5/I-90 interchange in Seattle looked like this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKlICEcX.jpg&hash=7c1ceac894d905ce28a43974baba386fd5e52357)
The Ramps to Nowhere (not the other ones near the Arboretum on State Route 520) were finally opened in 1991 (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1345&dat=19911015&id=qyhRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=D_oDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2949,2178991&hl=en) after the completion of a new floating bridge across Lake Washington (though, the old one sank and had to be rebuilt by 1993).
Some "incomplete" freeways that I lived near were:
I-77 in Cleveland (early-mid 70's) -- coming from the south, I-77 ended at SR-82/Royalton Road, then was extended to Pleasant Valley Road, then one exit further to Rockside Road -- all 3 roads used TO I-77 NORTH trailblazers connecting I-77's temporary endings to then US-21/Brecksville Road (now SR-21) which would head north and rejoin I-77 north of Granger Road/SR-17. Heading southbound, I-77 would end at Brecksville Road and trailblazers for TO I-77 SOUTH would lead to the next road which would connect back to I-77. Many of those TO-I-77 SOUTH trailblazers remained in place at the intersections of the aforementioned "connector roads" between US/SR-21 and I-77 well into the 80s before they were removed permanently.
I-480 in Cleveland (early 90s) -- before the missing link was completed between W. 139th and Brooklyn Heights/Tuxedo Avenue, There were ground-mounted BGS which said something to effect of "TO I-480 EAST (or WEST), FOLLOW SR-17 / BROOKPARK ROAD with a left arrow -- since both ramps required a left turn to traverse the temporary ends. I don't recall any "TO I-480" trailblazers along Brookpark Road.
And in the late 70's when a section of I-480 was only open between I-77 and Brooklyn Hts., I-480 was only signed as "TO I-77" from Brookpark Road and "TO SR-17/Brookpark Road" from I-77. There was no mention of how to connect with the next open sections of I-480 at that time.
I-96 in Livonia, MI (late 70s) -- when I-275 was completed in the late 70s west of Detroit, there was a short section of the Jeffries Freeway (I-96) which was opened between I-275 and the Levan/Newburgh Roads exit. Based on my fuzzy memory, there was no mention of (TO) I-96 on that short stretch of the Jeffries, or the temporary M-2 designation used for the Schoolcraft Road "Service Drives" which connected I-275 with I-96 east of Telegraph Road/US-24. I don't even think that I-96 was signed as a multiplex yet with I-275 until the Jeffries was fully opened.
I-275 in Monroe, MI (mid 70s) I-275 had a short segment opened from I-75 to US-24/Telegraph Road north of Monroe, MI. Before I-275 was completed, the freeway was only signed as "TO US-24/Telegraph Road" from I-75 and there was no I-275 trailblazers at the US-24 exit, as there was only one other stretch of future I-275 open at the time which I believe was between US-12/Michigan Avenue and M-153/Ford Road.
I remember coming into Phoenix from the west in '77. I-10 ended at what is now AZ 85, and you had to take Buckeye Rd (US 80 at the time) into Phoenix. It was signed as TO I-10/US 80, and "TO I-10" proceeded on southbound I-17 until you got past the 24th St exit (actually a short freeway stub along the current routing of I-10), where the "TO" signs went away. A couple of years later, I-10 made it east to Dysart Rd. By that time, US 80 was gone, and Buckeye Rd was AZ 85, the current exit for AZ 85 from I-10 was "TO I-8".
In 1977, Van Buren in central Phoenix was signed as US 60, US 80, AZ 93, and (I think) Business I-10.
Is the picture below perhaps an example of signing for an incomplete Interstate? I saw this photo in a late '60s congressional record (http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b654570;view=2up;seq=646) of testimony regarding collisions with signage, barriers, and other fixtures in the right of way, and this scene appears to be on the southbound lanes of I-465 at the interchange with I-74. Today, the control city is signed as Peoria. Was it signed here as the small city of Crawfordsville because that was as far as I-74 was completed at the time?
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1539/25416354744_43a7bf4030_o.png)
I lived in Indianapolis off and on between the mid 70's and early 80's. I-74 used Crawfordsville as a control city until around 1978, when it was switched to Peoria. That was more than a decade after I-74 was completed through Indiana and through Illinois, for that matter.
Until the segment of I-78 between Watchung and Springfield opened in 1986 the gap in I-78 was like this:
In New Jersey upon exiting Exit 14 of the NJ Turnpike, NJDOT (or NJTA) had a sign beyond the toll booths saying "I-78 West USE US 22" with a follow up on US 1 & 9 S Bound at the US 22 Exit. There were no I-78 trailblazers at all along US 22. There was a WEST I-78 shield at Bonnie Burn Road in Scotch Plains without an arrow for the exit, but with truck restrictions as only trucks were allowed WB during certain hours between its segment end at present day Exit 41 in Watchung and I-287 in Bedminster. Then the next shield was at the NB I-287 exit either ground mounted at first, and then on the current overheads that were installed there sometime in late 1980's.
Going EB, being that I-78 only existed in 8 miles of the Newark Bay Extension and for several years from Springfield to the NJ Turnpike was not connected to the rest of that interstate west of Watchung, no signs at I-287 in Bedminster or at Exit 41 in Watchung had any other "TO I-78" shields present. At I-287 the pull through for I-78 E Bound had this: LOCAL TRAFFIC ONLY- NO TRUCKS" and had a ground mount sign saying "TO Garden State Parkway and NJ Turnpike (both in shields) NEWARK- NEW YORK to use 287 South" to get people to both large cities.
On I-287 up until 1986, NJDOT did not sign EB I-78 from the freeway, but instead signed it as Mount Bethel and Local Traffic only. No I-78 shields for EB were ever mentioned either.
The section of I-78 from Newark to Springfield was not signed WB at any of the ramps including from the Newark Airport and NJT. Signs all said "TO NJ 24 WEST" with white on blue directions and lettering allowing the NJ 24 shield to eventually be swapped out at a later time for I-78 shields with the "TO" placecard to be removed. Going EB I-78 was signed though, however most locals erroneously thought that I-78 there was Route 24 and even in traffic reports was referred to it as Route 24.
On another note, about I-95 where it replaced US 301, even south of Santee, SC where it runs along US 15, it still effected US 301 from Santee to Florida. So during the building of I-95 in the Carolinas it was probably not needed to sign the missing gaps as most of that interstate did act as a new alignment of US 301. The part from Santee to Walterboro in SC, might of being that US 301 and the planned I-95 corridor at the time were several miles apart, there might of been signs at Exit 97 and its long arterial ramp for I-95 south to use US 15.
South of Point South, SC the interstate actually took away traffic from two US routes there as the current US 17 from Hampton Roads, VA to there now use I-95 from SC Exit 33 into Florida as well as the former US 301 motorists from Callahan, FL to Santee, SC.
I-75 in Florida back in 1986, did have signs between the I-4 and I-275 junction on SB I-275 for I-75 south followed up at the US 301 south exit near the State Fairgrounds and on NB US 301 at the I-4 west ramp along with follow ups at I-275 North from I-4 West. This was when the section of I-75 was incomplete between Wesley Chapel and Riverview. The signs still stood at the I-4 & I-275 interchange long after and were finally removed when FDOT reconfigured the I-4 & I-275 interchange back in the early 2000's.
Bringing up I-78 reminds me of before it was completed around Allentown and Easton and you had to take the US 22 bridge across the Delaware. Traffic was absolutely miserable the couple of times I had to take that bridge in that era.
Quote from: Rothman on March 25, 2016, 07:44:34 AM
Bringing up I-78 reminds me of before it was completed around Allentown and Easton and you had to take the US 22 bridge across the Delaware. Traffic was absolutely miserable the couple of times I had to take that bridge in that era.
Yes I remember that. However PennDOT did have TO I-78 shields with the mileage signs after each ramp. NJDOT did not except at the NJ 57 exit going EB to inform you to stay right on US 22 EB.
Going back to traffic, yes it was a nightmare.
Quote from: briantroutman on March 25, 2016, 03:03:48 AM
Is the picture below perhaps an example of signing for an incomplete Interstate? I saw this photo in a late ’60s congressional record (http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b654570;view=2up;seq=646) of testimony regarding collisions with signage, barriers, and other fixtures in the right of way, and this scene appears to be on the southbound lanes of I-465 at the interchange with I-74. Today, the control city is signed as Peoria. Was it signed here as the small city of Crawfordsville because that was as far as I-74 was completed at the time?
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1539/25416354744_43a7bf4030_o.png)
At the time this sign was installed, there were no official 'control cities' to be used on Interstate signing. Rather, destinations were chosen by the individual states. While it's possible that Crawfordville represented the end of completed I-74 at the time, it doesn't necessarily mean that was the reason for using the destination.
Quote from: Bruce on March 25, 2016, 01:07:48 AM
The Ramps to Nowhere (not the other ones near the Arboretum on State Route 520) were finally opened in 1991 (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1345&dat=19911015&id=qyhRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=D_oDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2949,2178991&hl=en) after the completion of a new floating bridge across Lake Washington (though, the old one sank and had to be rebuilt by 1993).
Thanks so much for this, I've been looking forever for a date for this, but for some reason I've never been able to find one. (So that does put it two months after Wallace, Idaho....)
However, you're somewhat mistaken. The original Lacey V. Murrow Bridge (eastbound lanes) opened in 1940, and the Homer M. Hadley Bridge (westbound and reversible lanes) opened in 1989. Then the old Murrow Bridge sank in 1990 (while it was already closed for renovation) and didn't reopen until 1993. The opening of the ramps to nowhere (which falls in between those last two openings) had nothing to do with a new bridge, and everything to do with the completion of the last mile of I-90 from I-5 to Rainier Avenue around Beacon Hill.
One more from the Cleveland area:
I-90 (late 70s) -- The final missing section of I-90 ran roughly between Westlake (Crocker - Bassett Road) and I-71, The section of future I-90, between Elyria/SR-57/Ohio Turnpike and Westlake was (and still is) used by SR-2. When the freeway was extended to West 117th St., the future I-90 was (and still is) signed as SR-2 until Detroit Road in Rocky River. From Detroit Road to W. 117th there was no route designation -- the overhead BGS at the interchanges just said FRWY EAST or FRWY WEST on green patches over the I-90 shields. Once the last section of the freeway was finished to I-71 did I-90 get signed on the freeway, multiplexed with SR-2 where applicable.
Signing I-90 around the missing links was interesting. From the west, on the Ohio Turnpike, I-90 East was co-signed to Elyria, then there was a BGS past the old Exit 8 which said TO I-90 EAST/NEW YORK THRUWAY USE EXIT 12, which was listed as SR-8/TO I-90 and bypassed Cleveland altogether. The turnpike most likely wanted to keep people on the Toll Road as long as possible, even if it meant some people had to backtrack many miles once they realized that they finally connected to I-90 beyond where they needed to go.
Guide signs were set up on the Turnpike advising people to use I-71 (Exit 10) to access Downtown Cleveland, Cleveland Hopkins Airport and SW Cleveland suburbs. There were occasional TO I-90 trailblazers along SR-8 North to I-271. From I-271 North to I-90 there were only occasional TO I-90 shields on overhead BGSs beside the I-271 NORTH shields. The overhead TO I-90 signs still exist, but are now mostly found on overhead signage for the I-271 EXPRESS lanes.
From the East I-90 was signed in both directions from I-271 to I-71 near downtown as that section was completed. Once on I-71, the only appearance of TO I-90 shields was on occasional overhead BGSs until the Ohio Turnpike. Once at the Ohio Turnpike, all BGSs were signed as I-80/I-90 WEST/TOLEDO, and all "TO" designations were omitted. Once I-90 was completed, all I-90 shields were removed off of signs on I-71 as well as on the Turnpike east of Elyria.
In California, the US route that would later be overlaid would still be signed. This link (http://www.kriske.com/highway/signs/signs2.html) shows routes that would later be decommissioned, but the interstate was not complete yet.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 24, 2016, 09:03:22 PM
Is the gap between Belle Vista, AR and Pineville, MO signed along US 71?
You can see much of the southbound signage through that stretch, at least as of last summer, part way down this page:
http://www.teresco.org/pics/omahatonaples-20150722-24/23/roads.html (http://www.teresco.org/pics/omahatonaples-20150722-24/23/roads.html)
On a much later note than the initial Interstate building of the 50s and 60s there was the State Road 84 version of Alligator Alley in the Big Cypress Swamp and Everglades prior to I-75. I vaguely remember the road being tolled like modern Alligator Alley is and following much of the same alignment in the 80s with the exception of it almost being totally 2-lane east of Naples. I remember a lot of I-75 south of Tampa was already finished by then so there could have been a I-75 sign or two in Alligator Alley but I was too young to remember that level of detail. I want to say it was 92/93 when it was upgraded to freeway standards and became part of the final leg of I-75. Other that the only options you had back then out of Naples was US 41 and partially Monroe County Route 94 to get to Miami.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on March 25, 2016, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Bruce on March 25, 2016, 01:07:48 AM
The Ramps to Nowhere (not the other ones near the Arboretum on State Route 520) were finally opened in 1991 (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1345&dat=19911015&id=qyhRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=D_oDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2949,2178991&hl=en) after the completion of a new floating bridge across Lake Washington (though, the old one sank and had to be rebuilt by 1993).
Thanks so much for this, I've been looking forever for a date for this, but for some reason I've never been able to find one. (So that does put it two months after Wallace, Idaho....)
However, you're somewhat mistaken. The original Lacey V. Murrow Bridge (eastbound lanes) opened in 1940, and the Homer M. Hadley Bridge (westbound and reversible lanes) opened in 1989. Then the old Murrow Bridge sank in 1990 (while it was already closed for renovation) and didn't reopen until 1993. The opening of the ramps to nowhere (which falls in between those last two openings) had nothing to do with a new bridge, and everything to do with the completion of the last mile of I-90 from I-5 to Rainier Avenue around Beacon Hill.
I had thought that the construction (or, more accurately, the anticipated completion) of the new span spurred the completion of I-90 around the north side of Beacon Hill, as well as Mercer Island, both of which got lidded parks.
Back in the year 1985, the Port Authority of NY and NJ added a Newark Airport sign at Exit 18 of I-78. That was before the Watchung Reservation Section opened in Spring 1986, so it had motorists traveling EB exit there and use US 22 all the way to the airport. In fact in Bound Brook at CR 527, there was a PANYNJ sign saying that Newark Airport was 20 miles ahead, with a follow up 10 miles sign later on either in Mountainside or Scotch Plains (I cannot remember where exactly).
When I-78 finally opened the 5 mile hold up in 1986, the sign's arrow was altered and instead of pointing to the Exit 18 ramp, it pointed to the through lanes. The sign was attached to the Exit 18 sign bridge supports on the side nearest the ramp. I believe it was NJDOT that patched over the old arrow when they added "Newark" to the pull through sign as that sign sat blank for decades. NJDOT did not sign "Newark" then most likely cause I-78 did not go there from that point and US 22 did. When I-78 finally opened in Union County it gave the reason to sign it, of course.
Now, the signs are gone including the 20 and 10 mile signs on Route 22 itself, but for one year prior to I-78 being complete from Phillipsburg to Newark it did have sign directing EWR patrons to stay on US 22 all the way.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 26, 2016, 08:56:09 AM
Back in the year 1985, the Port Authority of NY and NJ added a Newark Airport sign at Exit 18 of I-78. That was before the Watchung Reservation Section opened in Spring 1986, so it had motorists traveling EB exit there and use US 22 all the way to the airport. In fact in Bound Brook at CR 527, there was a PANYNJ sign saying that Newark Airport was 20 miles ahead, with a follow up 10 miles sign later on either in Mountainside or Scotch Plains (I cannot remember where exactly).
Weren't you also detoured onto NJ 24 between both parts of I-78? For a while prior to I-78 being completed through the reservation, NJ 24 was signed as I-78/NJ 24 temporarily, and NJ 24 and I-78 both split off into Local and Express lanes.
NJ 24 was not the detour. It was signed as TO NJ 24 WEST on the Spingfield, Union, Hillside, Newark, and from the NJT because NJ 24 did nothing to lead you back later on.
US 22 was the detour, if you could call it that, as it existed before I-78 did and was the existing roadway carrying the traffic from Newark to Phillipsburg before 1986.
Quote from: Bruce on March 26, 2016, 12:33:47 AM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on March 25, 2016, 02:23:28 PM
Quote from: Bruce on March 25, 2016, 01:07:48 AM
The Ramps to Nowhere (not the other ones near the Arboretum on State Route 520) were finally opened in 1991 (https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1345&dat=19911015&id=qyhRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=D_oDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2949,2178991&hl=en) after the completion of a new floating bridge across Lake Washington (though, the old one sank and had to be rebuilt by 1993).
Thanks so much for this, I've been looking forever for a date for this, but for some reason I've never been able to find one. (So that does put it two months after Wallace, Idaho....)
However, you're somewhat mistaken. The original Lacey V. Murrow Bridge (eastbound lanes) opened in 1940, and the Homer M. Hadley Bridge (westbound and reversible lanes) opened in 1989. Then the old Murrow Bridge sank in 1990 (while it was already closed for renovation) and didn't reopen until 1993. The opening of the ramps to nowhere (which falls in between those last two openings) had nothing to do with a new bridge, and everything to do with the completion of the last mile of I-90 from I-5 to Rainier Avenue around Beacon Hill.
I had thought that the construction (or, more accurately, the anticipated completion) of the new span spurred the completion of I-90 around the north side of Beacon Hill, as well as Mercer Island, both of which got lidded parks.
It's plausible you're right. Though I'm still not clear which one you're referring to as the "new" span. It's possible that the Hadley Bridge (and the failed/delayed renovation of the Murrow Bridge) and the "last mile" were part of the same project, but finished a couple of years apart. But I think the difference is, the last mile was built more-or-less as planned (just a couple decades late), while expanding the floating bridge to a dual span (that is, building the Hadley Bridge) is something that was added after the fact.
So I think it's more likely coincidental that during the late 80s, increased traffic independently led to both the new bridge and finally putting Beacon Hill NIMBYs to rest around the same time. (In other words, it's not a -> b, it's c -> a and c -> b.)
(Also, while I'm nitpicking, Beacon Hill is entirely west of Rainier Avenue and doesn't have a lid. You're thinking of Judkins Park, part of which has been lidded since around the time the
first Murrow Bridge was completed, but yes, the lid was extended west in late 80s.)
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 25, 2016, 09:39:22 PM
On a much later note than the initial Interstate building of the 50s and 60s there was the State Road 84 version of Alligator Alley in the Big Cypress Swamp and Everglades prior to I-75. I vaguely remember the road being tolled like modern Alligator Alley is and following much of the same alignment in the 80s with the exception of it almost being totally 2-lane east of Naples. I remember a lot of I-75 south of Tampa was already finished by then so there could have been a I-75 sign or two in Alligator Alley but I was too young to remember that level of detail. I want to say it was 92/93 when it was upgraded to freeway standards and became part of the final leg of I-75. Other that the only options you had back then out of Naples was US 41 and partially Monroe County Route 94 to get to Miami.
I'm fairly certain I-75 ended around Naples to begin with in the original plans. The toll road for Alligator Alley was 2 lanes originally. Then, later, they decided to start I-75 in the Miami area and bring it across the toll road while adding a second carriageway.
Quote from: Sykotyk on March 27, 2016, 12:02:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 25, 2016, 09:39:22 PM
On a much later note than the initial Interstate building of the 50s and 60s there was the State Road 84 version of Alligator Alley in the Big Cypress Swamp and Everglades prior to I-75. I vaguely remember the road being tolled like modern Alligator Alley is and following much of the same alignment in the 80s with the exception of it almost being totally 2-lane east of Naples. I remember a lot of I-75 south of Tampa was already finished by then so there could have been a I-75 sign or two in Alligator Alley but I was too young to remember that level of detail. I want to say it was 92/93 when it was upgraded to freeway standards and became part of the final leg of I-75. Other that the only options you had back then out of Naples was US 41 and partially Monroe County Route 94 to get to Miami.
I'm fairly certain I-75 ended around Naples to begin with in the original plans. The toll road for Alligator Alley was 2 lanes originally. Then, later, they decided to start I-75 in the Miami area and bring it across the toll road while adding a second carriageway.
Actually it was downtown Tampa along what is now I-275. I-4 took the rest of modern I-275 to St. Petersburg before dumping off onto US 19 which ran the original Skyway Bridge. The extension of I-75 always called for the route to be run through the Everglades to Miami but it was originally supposed to be US 41/Tamiami Trail instead of Alligator Alley. I want to say that it was the late 60s when the I-75 extension was finalized with the realignment through Alligator Alley a couple years later. The modern I-75 was even signed as I-75E at one point east of Tampa.
Incidentally....I-4 makes infinitely more sense all the way back to I-75 via the Sunshine bridge and I-275 should be an odd three digit from where it splits off from I-75 in North Tampa.
Also, getting to Miami from Tampa must have been miserable back in those days. US 41 would have gone through a ton of civilization albeit nowhere as bad as today. I'm not sure when US 27 was upgraded to four lanes from I-4 to Miami but there are a ton of two lane abandoned segments in the Everglades. I'm fairly certain US 27 also followed what is now FL 17 from Haines City all the way south even on the CR 17 alignments around Lake Placid. I know for a fact that FL 17 was US 27A at one point....that would leave really only the Turnpike as a viable fast option back in those days.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2016, 12:13:49 AM
Quote from: Sykotyk on March 27, 2016, 12:02:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 25, 2016, 09:39:22 PM
On a much later note than the initial Interstate building of the 50s and 60s there was the State Road 84 version of Alligator Alley in the Big Cypress Swamp and Everglades prior to I-75. I vaguely remember the road being tolled like modern Alligator Alley is and following much of the same alignment in the 80s with the exception of it almost being totally 2-lane east of Naples. I remember a lot of I-75 south of Tampa was already finished by then so there could have been a I-75 sign or two in Alligator Alley but I was too young to remember that level of detail. I want to say it was 92/93 when it was upgraded to freeway standards and became part of the final leg of I-75. Other that the only options you had back then out of Naples was US 41 and partially Monroe County Route 94 to get to Miami.
I'm fairly certain I-75 ended around Naples to begin with in the original plans. The toll road for Alligator Alley was 2 lanes originally. Then, later, they decided to start I-75 in the Miami area and bring it across the toll road while adding a second carriageway.
Actually it was downtown Tampa along what is now I-275. I-4 took the rest of modern I-275 to St. Petersburg before dumping off onto US 19 which ran the original Skyway Bridge. The extension of I-75 always called for the route to be run through the Everglades to Miami but it was originally supposed to be US 41/Tamiami Trail instead of Alligator Alley. I want to say that it was the late 60s when the I-75 extension was finalized with the realignment through Alligator Alley a couple years later. The modern I-75 was even signed as I-75E at one point east of Tampa.
Incidentally....I-4 makes infinitely more sense all the way back to I-75 via the Sunshine bridge and I-275 should be an odd three digit from where it splits off from I-75 in North Tampa.
Also, getting to Miami from Tampa must have been miserable back in those days. US 41 would have gone through a ton of civilization albeit nowhere as bad as today. I'm not sure when US 27 was upgraded to four lanes from I-4 to Miami but there are a ton of two lane abandoned segments in the Everglades. I'm fairly certain US 27 also followed what is now FL 17 from Haines City all the way south even on the CR 17 alignments around Lake Placid. I know for a fact that FL 17 was US 27A at one point....that would leave really only the Turnpike as a viable fast option back in those days.
I think US27 was four lanes to Lake Okeechobee by the late 1960s. Remember Florida had a total population of 3million in 1950 when interstates were planned.. SW Florida was pretty rural
Quote from: jwolfer on March 27, 2016, 04:39:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2016, 12:13:49 AM
Quote from: Sykotyk on March 27, 2016, 12:02:16 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 25, 2016, 09:39:22 PM
On a much later note than the initial Interstate building of the 50s and 60s there was the State Road 84 version of Alligator Alley in the Big Cypress Swamp and Everglades prior to I-75. I vaguely remember the road being tolled like modern Alligator Alley is and following much of the same alignment in the 80s with the exception of it almost being totally 2-lane east of Naples. I remember a lot of I-75 south of Tampa was already finished by then so there could have been a I-75 sign or two in Alligator Alley but I was too young to remember that level of detail. I want to say it was 92/93 when it was upgraded to freeway standards and became part of the final leg of I-75. Other that the only options you had back then out of Naples was US 41 and partially Monroe County Route 94 to get to Miami.
I'm fairly certain I-75 ended around Naples to begin with in the original plans. The toll road for Alligator Alley was 2 lanes originally. Then, later, they decided to start I-75 in the Miami area and bring it across the toll road while adding a second carriageway.
Actually it was downtown Tampa along what is now I-275. I-4 took the rest of modern I-275 to St. Petersburg before dumping off onto US 19 which ran the original Skyway Bridge. The extension of I-75 always called for the route to be run through the Everglades to Miami but it was originally supposed to be US 41/Tamiami Trail instead of Alligator Alley. I want to say that it was the late 60s when the I-75 extension was finalized with the realignment through Alligator Alley a couple years later. The modern I-75 was even signed as I-75E at one point east of Tampa.
Incidentally....I-4 makes infinitely more sense all the way back to I-75 via the Sunshine bridge and I-275 should be an odd three digit from where it splits off from I-75 in North Tampa.
Also, getting to Miami from Tampa must have been miserable back in those days. US 41 would have gone through a ton of civilization albeit nowhere as bad as today. I'm not sure when US 27 was upgraded to four lanes from I-4 to Miami but there are a ton of two lane abandoned segments in the Everglades. I'm fairly certain US 27 also followed what is now FL 17 from Haines City all the way south even on the CR 17 alignments around Lake Placid. I know for a fact that FL 17 was US 27A at one point....that would leave really only the Turnpike as a viable fast option back in those days.
I think US27 was four lanes to Lake Okeechobee by the late 1960s. Remember Florida had a total population of 3million in 1950 when interstates were planned.. SW Florida was pretty rural
Probably would fit since Corkscrew Road looks like it's been abandoned/unmaintained for at least 40 years. There are sections that can't be driven either because of lack of maintenance or it got turned back over to private property. Basically it's over built now for current traffic counts, I figure it used to have a lot more traffic before I-75 was built through the Everglades. I always thought it was the best way to get between Tampa and Miami. Aside from having to deal with Florida 60 for awhile it was all smooth sailing compared to I-75.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2016, 12:13:49 AM
Also, getting to Miami from Tampa must have been miserable back in those days. US 41 would have gone through a ton of civilization albeit nowhere as bad as today. I'm not sure when US 27 was upgraded to four lanes from I-4 to Miami but there are a ton of two lane abandoned segments in the Everglades. I'm fairly certain US 27 also followed what is now FL 17 from Haines City all the way south even on the CR 17 alignments around Lake Placid. I know for a fact that FL 17 was US 27A at one point....that would leave really only the Turnpike as a viable fast option back in those days.
When I was a kid in the 70's living in the Miami area, to get to Tampa we would take the Turnpike north to FL 60 at Yeehaw Junction. My parents wanted to avoid the development along Tamiami Trail (US 41) along the west coast.
Quote from: RG407 on March 27, 2016, 09:02:49 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 27, 2016, 12:13:49 AM
Also, getting to Miami from Tampa must have been miserable back in those days. US 41 would have gone through a ton of civilization albeit nowhere as bad as today. I'm not sure when US 27 was upgraded to four lanes from I-4 to Miami but there are a ton of two lane abandoned segments in the Everglades. I'm fairly certain US 27 also followed what is now FL 17 from Haines City all the way south even on the CR 17 alignments around Lake Placid. I know for a fact that FL 17 was US 27A at one point....that would leave really only the Turnpike as a viable fast option back in those days.
When I was a kid in the 70's living in the Miami area, to get to Tampa we would take the Turnpike north to FL 60 at Yeehaw Junction. My parents wanted to avoid the development along Tamiami Trail (US 41) along the west coast.
It's still not a bad way, my brother in-law still prefers that route. The terrain was a little bit more scenic on US 27 or even parts of US 98/441 for my tastes as opposed to the Turnpike. Speaking of the Turnpike there is a hell of an interesting history with how I-95 and the Turnpike got divided finally and run literally right next to each other nowadays.
There are two Interstates in my general area that were completed while I was here, I-295 and I-287. Oddly, I have no memory of how or even if the gaps were signed before that. With 295, I think the gap was at the northern end, so there wouldn't be discontinuous segments, but I-287 definitely existed in NYS and NJ south of Morristown with a gap in between, where you would be dumped onto US 202
In Rochester, NY, before I390/NY390 and I590/NY590 were completed, the Outer Loop was signed as NY 47 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_47)
Quote from: bzakharin on March 28, 2016, 02:48:21 PM
There are two Interstates in my general area that were completed while I was here, I-295 and I-287. Oddly, I have no memory of how or even if the gaps were signed before that. With 295, I think the gap was at the northern end, so there wouldn't be discontinuous segments, but I-287 definitely existed in NYS and NJ south of Morristown with a gap in between, where you would be dumped onto US 202
Before the Montville to Mahwah segment was completed it was never signed at all at the end of the freeway at US 202.
Through Morristown, back in the 70's I cannot remember if the segment end at North Maple Avenue near Basking Ridge had any TO- I-287 signs then as well as the southern segment terminus of the Boonton and Parsippany section at NJ 10 leading you west on NJ 10 West to US 202 South or not.
I do know that the current use of Clifton and Dover for US 46 going southbound in Parsippany is because I-80 was completed years after I-287 was in that location. US 46 filled in the gap between Denville and Exit 47, of course and NJDOT not updating the signs gives you a glimpse of how that was signed.
I have no idea why, though, Singac was used as a northbound control city for I-287 from Morris County 511 when that particular town (a section of Little Falls Township in Passaic County along NJ 23) was used. There is even no direct route there at the former end in Montville except for US 202 and NJ 23, but Lincoln Park, a bigger town, would have been more suited for that entrance ramp. For years in the 1970's and 1980's both Boonton and Singac graced the sign there on CR 511.
I once read that there were blank Interstate shields on stub extensions that ended a short distance away, such as I-95 on the southwestern side of Baltimore. Were there any other examples elsewhere?
Quote from: bzakharin on March 28, 2016, 02:48:21 PM
There are two Interstates in my general area that were completed while I was here, I-295 and I-287. Oddly, I have no memory of how or even if the gaps were signed before that. With 295, I think the gap was at the northern end, so there wouldn't be discontinuous segments, but I-287 definitely existed in NYS and NJ south of Morristown with a gap in between, where you would be dumped onto US 202
There was a gap on 295, between Exits 57 & 61. Motorists had to exit at Exit 57 (US 130 North), follow to 206, follow to 195 East, and then take the 295 North Ramp to get back to 295. Southbound, similar story, except that the 195-295 ramp was wider. The outside lane was for 295 South to 195 East, as the entire Interchange 60 ramp system didn't exist. When that interchange was constructed, they narrowed down the 195 E to 295 N ramp to the single lane we use today.
I imagine the detour route was signed, although I don't remember that as much. Until the full-depth replacement of 295 occurred a few years ago, you could still faintly see the old line markings on 295 North where it narrowed down to the Exit 57 ramp.
Quote from: bzakharin on March 28, 2016, 02:48:21 PM
There are two Interstates in my general area that were completed while I was here, I-295 and I-287.
Heh. When I was a kid, my father got a Rand McNally map that actually had I-287 prematurely marked as completed. He got the bright idea to take the road around NYC. After seeing some signage that made him worried, we pulled off at a manned rest area somewhere and were treated to stereotypical NYC area service ("What d'ya want?" "287 isn't complete after Exit [whatever]." [employee goes back to newspaper]).
Quote from: noelbotevera on March 25, 2016, 03:53:07 PM
In California, the US route that would later be overlaid would still be signed. This link (http://www.kriske.com/highway/signs/signs2.html) shows routes that would later be decommissioned, but the interstate was not complete yet.
However, the signage of the superseded US routes was removed fairly quickly after the 1964 renumbering. US 40 and US 50 signs were gone from the San Francisco Bay Area by the late 1960s when I was a frequent passenger in the back seat of my parents' VW bug.
Quote from: nexus73 on March 22, 2016, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: oscar on March 22, 2016, 07:44:51 PM
In the early 1970s, I lived near Temporary I-15 in southern California, signed as such on what then was part of US 395 down to San Diego, while the permanent I-15 segments were being built. I-15 between San Diego and San Bernadino was a late addition to the original Interstate system.
I recall the I-15E signs when I was stationed at March AFB in the mid-Seventies. The US 395 signs were still up but they would soon disappear...
Rick
I remember those too. Those "Temporary I-15 ' signs were there well into the '80s.
In rural areas around here, most small towns rated an interchange when the interstates were built. Typically, the interstates passed those small towns by 1/2 to at least a mile. So, the contractors building the interstate would build the overpass and pave the ramps, but they did not pave the road to the nearby town.
IIRC, the town I lived near didn't get a paved road that last mile for almost 2 years. Meanwhile, the new interstate was a popular way to get around, and the dirt and gravel cow path to the interstate saw very hard service and was a nightmare to drive on from all the mudholes and ruts from the trucks.
Getting that last bit of concrete was a very welcome finishing touch for the interstate !!
Two videos on YouTube from the early 1960's - one from Iowa State Highway Commission about a 55-mile stretch of US-30 (I had no idea the yellow pennant "NO PASSING ZONE" signs went back that far, btw) and the other from the South Carolina DOT - both providing an idea of how roads were when the interstate system was being initially built.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MD_WuK1b8E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MD_WuK1b8E)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nJUlt8kur8
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nJUlt8kur8)
The other link is to the old GribbleNation site. The last picture in the 1970-79 series shows how an un-completed stretch of I-95 was marked in N.C. along US-301.
http://www.gribblenation.com/ncpics/vintage/ (http://www.gribblenation.com/ncpics/vintage/)
Not sure if this counts, but I remember back when I lived in New England, for the longest time, the portion of I-93 past the Old Man of the Mountain, because it was a Super Two and therefore not to Interstate standards, was signed as "TO I-93," with a separate set of exit numbers (1, 2, and 3, IIRC). I-93 exit numbers resumed where they left off after that section. The thing is, you didn't need to exit the (I-93) highway to use this segment of the de facto I-93. It was signed like that until about 2005 or 2006, when they re-signed it as I-93 and renumbered the exits to make them consecutive along the whole of I-93. I seem to remember something about the state of New Hampshire getting a waiver for the Interstate standards for that section because it would be impossible to widen the highway to four lanes in that area without doing some serious damage to the environment.
Wikipedia explains this better than I just did. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_93#New_Hampshire_2)
Quote from: roadman65 on March 24, 2016, 09:03:22 PMIs the gap between Belle Vista, AR and Pineville, MO signed along US 71?
Yes. Both ends of I-49 have signs advising traffic to continue on US 71. The signs shown on Jim Teresco's page (with the possible exception of the stippled-arrow diagrammatic) were installed as part of the major I-49 signing contract a few years ago.
To answer the OP's question, treatment of uncompleted Interstates clearly varied from state to state, but a common approach in many states (such as Ohio and Arizona) was to incorporate temporary signing (often with lettering one size smaller) into paving or combined grading/drainage/paving contracts for discrete segments, and then come back later and replace all the temporary signing with permanent signs developed on a corridor-wide basis and installed as part of one contract. It is fairly easy to see this approach at work in states that make old Interstate as-built plans available through electronic document management systems.
In Colorado, where rural I-25 in the southern part of the state was essentially an on-the-cheap and now unnervingly deficient upgrade of US 85-87, the basic approach in the early 1960's was to taper traffic down from four lanes divided to two lanes with large signs reading "KEEP RIGHT/(ruled line)/FORM ONE LANE/(ruled line)/NO PASSING," and follow this with a single-panel trailblazer: "TO [I-25 shield] [up arrow]."
(I'm sorry in advance if this is in the wrong section!)
This was taken from a Facebook group I'm part of, mostly about early history of New Britain, CT and its environs.
The above photo is from November 1973. It shows CT Route 72 under construction. The photo is generally looking west to west-southwest. The interchange with I-84 is at the top right of the picture. I believe the road from that interchange to Corbin Avenue (the bridge under "Black Rock Ave." was already there, as the old route 72 would head south and east from there towards Berlin.
The split bridge above the word "construction" is where West Main Street passes under the highway today.
At the extreme top...the Tomasso Quarry is in Plainville, CT.
Top left...Slade Junior High School is still there now, but with more buildings.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgnAred3.jpg&hash=d3d0a27d5453b4e26b5128b26bba05d62622bb1b)