Anywhere else that the road is signed for all four directions?
From the Beltway in Maryland
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5731/23206644083_560d44344c_c.jpg)
I've never seen this before.
They could be to reflect the quadrant directions of the avenues in DC. A lot of them extend outside of the District to the surrounding suburbs with the same names so it could just be that.
What? Sorry to sound like NE 2 for a minute, but it is not about character of another user, but that of MDSHA. What are they thinking here unless they plan on making MD 4 a permanent N-S highway from its previous E-W and this is the transition.
This posting dynamic on the Beltway has been like that for many years. There are very few E-W postings on MD 4 (found only one set on GMSV and it was in Upper Marlboro). The first marker leaving DC is MD 4 South.
It is definitely not a continuation of the quadrant system of DC. Maryland streets that keep the DC name on their side of the boundary do not retain the quadrant part and even if they did, the only place a NW and a SE road could meet would be at the US Capitol, and the quadrant name would appear after Ave instead of before the street name.
I do not have any 1960s pictures of the Beltway at MD 4 to see if this practice goes back to the beginning. My theory is that this dates to when MD 4 was extended to replace MD 416 down to Prince Frederick and beyond in 1970 or so. Prior, MD 4 was strictly E-W, ending at MD 2 Lothian. The thought may have been that people would say take MD 4 south to Prince Frederick and that is why the N-S directions may be included. Today, the E-W directions are superfluous.
Mike
It makes you wonder how the Kansas Turnpike was signed pre interstate days.
Anyway, interesting that MD 4 is signed N-S. Considering its an even number route going on a E-W demeanor west of its split with MD 2, and it was indeed signed E-W back in the 1970's at least from I-95/495 and US 301.
I have no problems with that BTW, as maybe for the better good it should be signed that way. However, MD 4 is an awkward alignment anyway even though its a much needed corridor and does link that peninsula between the Chesapeake Bay and Patuxtent River to our Nation's Capital real well.
Not directly on the I-15 exit, but UT-114 goes East-West as Provo Center Street then takes a right turn and goes north-south as Geneva Road.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 25, 2016, 08:08:10 AM
It makes you wonder how the Kansas Turnpike was signed pre interstate days.
Very likely with cities instead of directions.
Doesn't quite qualify, because one of these if never signed in that way. But, if you drive US-101 from LA to Olympia, you start out going pretty much due west. Although, as far as I know, this is only ever signed North/South. Then a ways past Santa Barbara, it turns away from the coast and heads generally North, all the way past Forks, WA. I'm not sure where exactly it changes, but by the time you hit Port Angeles, WA, US-101 is now officially signed East/West (you are now traveling East in this example). At JCT WA-20, US-101 switches back to signed North/South, but at this point you're now traveling South. So, if you drive the whole route, you're officially traveling signed directions of North, East, and then South. If CA ever decided to sign LA to Santa Barbara as East/West (unlikely), then you'd hit all 4 directions.
Why is US 101 any different if it was signed E-W in that region? Look at interstate beltways. Example, I-465 in Indiana with you going North, then east, then south, and finally west. If you reverse direction, you go north, west, south, and then east.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 26, 2016, 01:25:17 PM
Why is US 101 any different if it was signed E-W in that region? Look at interstate beltways. Example, I-465 in Indiana with you going North, then east, then south, and finally west. If you reverse direction, you go north, west, south, and then east.
Any circular beltway would have the same possibility. A route with a severe U, L, or C shape becomes more interesting (e.g., US 101, US 321, I-69) where north can become east and maybe eventually south or possibly even north just becoming south!
Old Ohio-style N-WEST and S-EAST type banners would have been useful for a situation like what is pictured, if that is what they were trying for. Shame Ohio fell in line with everyone else instead of sticking with those.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 26, 2016, 01:25:17 PM
Why is US 101 any different if it was signed E-W in that region? Look at interstate beltways. Example, I-465 in Indiana with you going North, then east, then south, and finally west. If you reverse direction, you go north, west, south, and then east.
I don't understand your question. 101 does basically form 3/4 of a beltway around the peninsula, and it's signed the way most beltways would be. It's really not any different.
Y'all are missing the point. I'm not talking about roads that change posted directions (as full beltways like I-275 OH-KY-IN and I-465 IN do). I'm talking about a road that is signed for all four directions at once, like the MD 4 example pictured.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2016, 09:25:04 PM
Y'all are missing the point. I'm not talking about roads that change posted directions (as full beltways like I-275 OH-KY-IN and I-465 IN do). I'm talking about a road that is signed for all four directions at once, like the MD 4 example pictured.
Just making sure, this is not supposed to be a list of overlaps where one route is north/south and the other route is east/west, right?
Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2016, 09:25:04 PM
Y'all are missing the point. I'm not talking about roads that change posted directions (as full beltways like I-275 OH-KY-IN and I-465 IN do). I'm talking about a road that is signed for all four directions at once, like the MD 4 example pictured.
Probably the only significant chance of that would be hitting a route at a point where it inflects from N/S to E/W and some signs haven't caught up, or errors like some old erroneous signs for MA 114 N/S mixed with current ones reading W/E. :P
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 24, 2016, 08:35:02 PM
This posting dynamic on the Beltway has been like that for many years. There are very few E-W postings on MD 4 (found only one set on GMSV and it was in Upper Marlboro). The first marker leaving DC is MD 4 South.
It is definitely not a continuation of the quadrant system of DC. Maryland streets that keep the DC name on their side of the boundary do not retain the quadrant part and even if they did, the only place a NW and a SE road could meet would be at the US Capitol, and the quadrant name would appear after Ave instead of before the street name.
I do not have any 1960s pictures of the Beltway at MD 4 to see if this practice goes back to the beginning. My theory is that this dates to when MD 4 was extended to replace MD 416 down to Prince Frederick and beyond in 1970 or so. Prior, MD 4 was strictly E-W, ending at MD 2 Lothian. The thought may have been that people would say take MD 4 south to Prince Frederick and that is why the N-S directions may be included. Today, the E-W directions are superfluous.
Mike
I've always thought that this was a very inartful way of making an exit for MD 4 south, which also happens to be Penn Ave. east. The highway number is definitely north/south, but the street (and the addresses along the street) follow east/west.
Similar to my post right above where US 101 is north/south, but the Ventura Freeway is east/west.
We really don't need such confusion. I say sign only the cardinal direction of the highway (ignoring compass direction). But then, to alleviate any confusion, absolutely include appropriate control cities.
Washington DC vs Upper Marlboro
Ventura vs Los Angeles
I know that Illinois Route 113 is signed as North/South in some sections, and East/West in other sections; sometimes the sections seem to overlap.
I like the idea of signing some roads as northeast/southwest (or SW/NE), especially shorter state roads with no long-term orientation. It would also be nice for some of the Interstates here in the Chicago area, where I-55 runs east-west and I-90/94 run north-south -_-
A few signs popped up showing EAST and WEST for US Route 1 before on the Connecticut coast. I've never seen those cardinal directions used for any US Route 1 exit from I-95. At least not in my travels on said road from Manhattan/Bronx to New Haven, CT.
I wonder where the exact switchover point in Lansing is for I-69? (Since it goes from north/south to east/west)
Quote from: Henry on March 28, 2016, 10:48:58 AM
I wonder where the exact switchover point in Lansing is for I-69? (Since it goes from north/south to east/west)
If I recall correctly that point used to be signed, but here's the first I-69 East posting.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7951897,-84.6474827,3a,75y,65.92h,85.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szBg3A5GBF9LUabDTb6Ejeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
NJ 440 (southern segment) still has a few E-W signs from before it became N-S to match the NY 440 section and the northern portion of NJ 440, but it's either one or the other, never both
Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 28, 2016, 09:26:38 AM
I know that Illinois Route 113 is signed as North/South in some sections, and East/West in other sections; sometimes the sections seem to overlap.
I like the idea of signing some roads as northeast/southwest (or SW/NE), especially shorter state roads with no long-term orientation. It would also be nice for some of the Interstates here in the Chicago area, where I-55 runs east-west and I-90/94 run north-south -_-
i-4 through Orlando is NS from downtown to Sanford... But always signed EW, getting off exits all the signed routes are EW, I would think that has caused some non-roadgeek morons some confusion
Quote from: Henry on March 28, 2016, 10:48:58 AM
I wonder where the exact switchover point in Lansing is for I-69? (Since it goes from north/south to east/west)
The switchover point is at the northern junction of I-69 and I-96 in Watertown Township. That way, north-south I-69 runs concurrent with east-west I-96. If the switchover point were farther south, there would be a wrong-way duplex to confuse everyone.
There used to be signs announcing the switchover but those were removed and not replaced when all signage in the area was upgraded several years ago.
US 62 in Ohio is a darn good example of this. Some signs are E-W, others N-S. PA and NY only sign it as N-S.
Of course, if we're not talking about all 4 directions being signed at all location, NY 28 is a prime example. E-W through Ulster County, switches to N-S in Delaware County at the eastern end of the Pepacton Reservoir. Continues as N-S through Hamilton County past the second concurrency with NY 30. Once in Warren County, the direction used to be unsigned, but Region 1 has since installed a couple reassurance markers indicating that NY 28 reverts to E-W (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6112782,-73.8911947,3a,26.5y,335.53h,80.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq7fjVnZxRb3ulGf-c3OxZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) from the Hamilton-Warren line to its northern "eastern" terminus at US 9. I do not know the "official" changeover point, but the last NB/SB assemblies are just west of Lake Abanakee (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.782941,-74.2496737,3a,49.3y,66.42h,87.9t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNM7Ixgu9v2zQXDpqtapGIQ!2e0!5s20151101T000000!7i13312!8i6656). Talk about confusing.
In Novi MI, M-5 changes from west-east to north-south because MDOT didn't want to bring a fifth route number into the I-96/I-275/I-696/M-5 interchange. Signs are posted announcing the cardinal direction changes.
https://goo.gl/maps/dvH382Y8vL32 (westbound changes to northbound)
https://goo.gl/maps/pQeeTEZdVbL2 (southbound changes to eastbound)