This is allowed in the MUTCD, but I have only ever seen one signal (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6093233,-122.3323385,3a,15y,243.36h,88.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvQ1fp_Ggj6gAgB1Eq-5Jg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) where this is used. (It makes sense in this case in that they want to emphasize that you need to turn without making it seem like a protected movement -- people crossing the street.)
Where else have you seen these?
I'm fairly certain that California uses this type of display when a one-way road ends at another one-way road, and both roads merge onto the same road, though I could be describing the situation incorrectly.
Example: Haight @ Octavia in San Francisco: https://goo.gl/VavYAH -- this appears to be substantially similar to the Seattle example in your post, Jay.
I recently saw a newly installed three-section left turn display somewhere in central Georgia that had red, solid yellow, and flashing yellow - i.e. without a protected green phase - although for the life of me I can't remember where it was exactly.
A couple of houses in Columbia, MO get their own 3-lantern left turn signal with an FYA at the bottom.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.937497,-92.3221664,3a,75y,177.23h,84.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSYIVIJ3WJsbtE0UpiKpy_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.937497,-92.3221664,3a,75y,177.23h,84.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSYIVIJ3WJsbtE0UpiKpy_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
Abbotsford WI: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9350631,-90.3166539,3a,75y,190.06h,91.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suKkU5mbyLOzUttp7MnPADA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: jay8g on March 27, 2016, 12:13:33 AM
This is allowed in the MUTCD, but I have only ever seen one signal (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6093233,-122.3323385,3a,15y,243.36h,88.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvQ1fp_Ggj6gAgB1Eq-5Jg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) where this is used. (It makes sense in this case in that they want to emphasize that you need to turn without making it seem like a protected movement -- people crossing the street.)
Where else have you seen these?
The example you cite (University / 6th Ave Seattle) has FYA right arrow on one side and green ball on the other side. If people are careful to only turn in to their closest lane this is not a problem. But, otherwise it will seem odd that the right turners would have to yield to the opposing left turners since the right turners see a FYA, while the left turners see a green ball.
But yes, the reason for this is to warn right turners of pedestrians.
Quote from: mrsman on March 27, 2016, 10:21:21 AM
Quote from: jay8g on March 27, 2016, 12:13:33 AM
This is allowed in the MUTCD, but I have only ever seen one signal (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6093233,-122.3323385,3a,15y,243.36h,88.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvQ1fp_Ggj6gAgB1Eq-5Jg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) where this is used. (It makes sense in this case in that they want to emphasize that you need to turn without making it seem like a protected movement -- people crossing the street.)
Where else have you seen these?
The example you cite (University / 6th Ave Seattle) has FYA right arrow on one side and green ball on the other side. If people are careful to only turn in to their closest lane this is not a problem. But, otherwise it will seem odd that the right turners would have to yield to the opposing left turners since the right turners see a FYA, while the left turners see a green ball.
But yes, the reason for this is to warn right turners of pedestrians.
The FYA does not change the normal order of right of way. Left turners still yield right of way to those turning right across from them. Remember, think of any flashing yellow light as there being no signal or indication for the direction it indicates (or all directions for a ball), so use caution and follow normal ROW rules.
Here's an example of a left FYA in Gainesville with no green:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6382599,-82.3460273,3a,75y,349.77h,98.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seTdp2bLePM2nS7icgMJ_Rg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en (also has a shared lane that it is indicating for, and some old signals with yellow bodys)
There's was one on Hampshire St. in Buffalo through the early 1970's with red on top, a blank in the middle, and a flashing yellow ball on the bottom. It fascinated me because it was so non-standard. I don't think I ever saw it red. It's long gone now, as is the neighborhood.
Quote from: Big John on March 27, 2016, 07:06:11 AM
Abbotsford WI: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9350631,-90.3166539,3a,75y,190.06h,91.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suKkU5mbyLOzUttp7MnPADA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
There's another one in Mauston for traffic turning left from westbound WIS 82 onto eastbound US 12/WIS 16.
Left turn 3-section heads with flashing arrows are pretty much the same as if you didn't have any signal head for the left turns at all, then. Why install signals just to restate what's already implied from a green ball? Lol. Isn't this a waste of money? I do like the cases where the signal unfortunately interferes with a private driveway, so you want to help those residents out (and in any case, it's probably because the resident complained). But otherwise, why waste money on it unless the intersection is a special case?
Special cases include: signal interfering with driveway, warning drivers to look for pedestrians where they might be hard to see, other weird stuff?
Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 28, 2016, 09:18:05 AM
Left turn 3-section heads with flashing arrows are pretty much the same as if you didn't have any signal head for the left turns at all, then. Why install signals just to restate what's already implied from a green ball? Lol. Isn't this a waste of money? I do like the cases where the signal unfortunately interferes with a private driveway, so you want to help those residents out (and in any case, it's probably because the resident complained). But otherwise, why waste money on it unless the intersection is a special case?
Special cases include: signal interfering with driveway, warning drivers to look for pedestrians where they might be hard to see, other weird stuff?
also the obvious case where there is no green ball or its not necessarily activated at the same time
I saw a couple of these in Lenexa, KS the other day. 3-section left turn signal with red arrow, steady yellow arrow and flashing yellow arrow heads, no green arrow.
Lynn Shore Drive in Lynn (MA) still has some three section signals that are red-yellow-flashing yellow.
NYSDOT Region 4 installed a bunch over the past year or two in Rochester and Geneva (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8701826,-76.9784473,3a,33y,225.83h,89.99t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sCO9Xk3sOKZs3Ua5lUE8BsQ!2e0!5s20151001T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en). The latter location and one a block west are linked to a grade crossing. The ones in Rochester are permissive-only lefts.
A lot of them exist in New York City.
Saw this for the first time today at this intersection (installed sometime in the last two months, after this Street View image was captured) (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0059837,-84.5750307,3a,75y,148.52h,87.48t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sa4LvOMzIvW9RtjPnv61Miw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Da4LvOMzIvW9RtjPnv61Miw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D228.05496%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en). It was fine, I guess, really not any significant difference from how it worked before.
(https://www.aaroads.com/midwest/wisconsin150/wi-172_eb_at_s_point_rd.jpg)Wis 172 and South Point Road in Ashwaubenon, WI.
Huntsville, AL has a few intersections with them in the downtown.
A fairly pointless signal to enter the rotary at the end of Snowden River Parkway where it meets MD-100 in Columbia, MD. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2122523,-76.795652,3a,75y,76.61h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sscvHYmnk81WPgCv8ZpZkHw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) Sometimes, it turns red, though I've never figured out why, or what the point was. The flashing yellow starts flashing more quickly, at an almost epileptic-seizure-inducing rate, then the center yellow light comes on solid, then the solid red on the left. I also have no idea why there is a rotary there in the first place. Was there a plan to continue building Snowden River northward? What would be wrong with a simple T intersection with a (proper) horizontal traffic light? The signal assembly is horizontal because it needs to be visible under the MD-100 overpass.
Quote from: tckma on April 15, 2016, 02:34:29 PM
A fairly pointless signal to enter the rotary at the end of Snowden River Parkway where it meets MD-100 in Columbia, MD. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2122523,-76.795652,3a,75y,76.61h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sscvHYmnk81WPgCv8ZpZkHw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) Sometimes, it turns red, though I've never figured out why, or what the point was. The flashing yellow starts flashing more quickly, at an almost epileptic-seizure-inducing rate, then the center yellow light comes on solid, then the solid red on the left. I also have no idea why there is a rotary there in the first place. Was there a plan to continue building Snowden River northward? What would be wrong with a simple T intersection with a (proper) horizontal traffic light? The signal assembly is horizontal because it needs to be visible under the MD-100 overpass.
I'm guessing the signal was added to prevent backups on the MD 100 off ramp. Also, those chevrons in the center of the roundabout should be white, just FYI.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on April 15, 2016, 04:44:46 PM
Quote from: tckma on April 15, 2016, 02:34:29 PM
A fairly pointless signal to enter the rotary at the end of Snowden River Parkway where it meets MD-100 in Columbia, MD. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2122523,-76.795652,3a,75y,76.61h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sscvHYmnk81WPgCv8ZpZkHw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) Sometimes, it turns red, though I've never figured out why, or what the point was. The flashing yellow starts flashing more quickly, at an almost epileptic-seizure-inducing rate, then the center yellow light comes on solid, then the solid red on the left. I also have no idea why there is a rotary there in the first place. Was there a plan to continue building Snowden River northward? What would be wrong with a simple T intersection with a (proper) horizontal traffic light? The signal assembly is horizontal because it needs to be visible under the MD-100 overpass.
I'm guessing the signal was added to prevent backups on the MD 100 off ramp. Also, those chevrons in the center of the roundabout should be white, just FYI.
Given the presence of this induction loop (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2111507,-76.79494,3a,75y,342.42h,65.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swKT1HFzFMfcdNfPCAh3RuQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and two more closer to MD 100, I concur.
For all of what I've seen, US 29, Cabarrus Avenue, and Union Cemetery Road (Street :hmmm: :confused:) along US 29 North towards US 601-NC 73 truck route, there is a flashing yellow RIGHT turn arrow... That's the most permissive that I've seen - but there is a green arrow space (4 lights). :confused:
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on April 15, 2016, 04:44:46 PM
Quote from: tckma on April 15, 2016, 02:34:29 PM
A fairly pointless signal to enter the rotary at the end of Snowden River Parkway where it meets MD-100 in Columbia, MD. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2122523,-76.795652,3a,75y,76.61h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sscvHYmnk81WPgCv8ZpZkHw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I'm guessing the signal was added to prevent backups on the MD 100 off ramp.
A similar setup is in use at the Point Lewis Rotary in Perth, to reduce queuing on the adjacent leg. It dispenses with the flashing yellow, and just goes dark when traffic does not need to stop.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-31.9619853,115.8458474,3a,75y,67.1h,76.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s50iI5mOdJorbh3UdzyzJgA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-31.9619853,115.8458474,3a,75y,67.1h,76.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s50iI5mOdJorbh3UdzyzJgA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Does this bad boy right here count for the purposes of this discussion (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1867948,-77.3202552,3a,65.2y,290.36h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6L3yjl_3WOB6bJ0VMKgL-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)? I ask because not only is flashing yellow its most permissive, it is the only indication east and westbound on Old US 70 in Cove City, NC (it is flashing red on the Main St side in both directions). It is commonly referred to by locals as the Cove City caution light.
Quote from: slorydn1 on April 25, 2016, 07:59:01 AM
Does this bad boy right here count for the purposes of this discussion (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1867948,-77.3202552,3a,65.2y,290.36h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6L3yjl_3WOB6bJ0VMKgL-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)? I ask because not only is flashing yellow its most permissive, it is the only indication east and westbound on Old US 70 in Cove City, NC (it is flashing red on the Main St side in both directions). It is commonly referred to by locals as the Cove City caution light.
Not really. The flashing yellow isn't the 'most permissive', it's the only signal one gets. They are somewhat common, and really are used for the flashing red feature for the cross street.
Now...if you want to call it the ugliest caution light setup...that I will go with. Usually the two lights are directly next to each other, not separated by a space between.
Quote from: slorydn1 on April 25, 2016, 07:59:01 AM
Does this bad boy right here count for the purposes of this discussion (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1867948,-77.3202552,3a,65.2y,290.36h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6L3yjl_3WOB6bJ0VMKgL-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)? I ask because not only is flashing yellow its most permissive, it is the only indication east and westbound on Old US 70 in Cove City, NC (it is flashing red on the Main St side in both directions). It is commonly referred to by locals as the Cove City caution light.
An odd assembly indeed, but I'm not sure how it differs from a single flashing light in both directions, red in one, yellow in the other. There's also the STOP signs in the red directions, in which case the flashing red light is redundant because it means the same thing as a STOP sign.
Reminds me of the traffic lights in Asheville, NC that have two red lights at the top.
Quote from: tckma on April 25, 2016, 08:12:14 AM
Quote from: slorydn1 on April 25, 2016, 07:59:01 AM
Does this bad boy right here count for the purposes of this discussion (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1867948,-77.3202552,3a,65.2y,290.36h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6L3yjl_3WOB6bJ0VMKgL-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)? I ask because not only is flashing yellow its most permissive, it is the only indication east and westbound on Old US 70 in Cove City, NC (it is flashing red on the Main St side in both directions). It is commonly referred to by locals as the Cove City caution light.
An odd assembly indeed, but I'm not sure how it differs from a single flashing light in both directions, red in one, yellow in the other. There's also the STOP signs in the red directions, in which case the flashing red light is redundant because it means the same thing as a STOP sign.
Reminds me of the traffic lights in Asheville, NC that have two red lights at the top.
It's a redundancy done on purpose. In many cases, the stop road probably is a main road thru much of the area, and this is the only location where traffic on that road has to stop.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 25, 2016, 08:25:21 AM
Quote from: tckma on April 25, 2016, 08:12:14 AM
Quote from: slorydn1 on April 25, 2016, 07:59:01 AM
Does this bad boy right here count for the purposes of this discussion (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1867948,-77.3202552,3a,65.2y,290.36h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6L3yjl_3WOB6bJ0VMKgL-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)? I ask because not only is flashing yellow its most permissive, it is the only indication east and westbound on Old US 70 in Cove City, NC (it is flashing red on the Main St side in both directions). It is commonly referred to by locals as the Cove City caution light.
An odd assembly indeed, but I'm not sure how it differs from a single flashing light in both directions, red in one, yellow in the other. There's also the STOP signs in the red directions, in which case the flashing red light is redundant because it means the same thing as a STOP sign.
Reminds me of the traffic lights in Asheville, NC that have two red lights at the top.
It's a redundancy done on purpose. In many cases, the stop road probably is a main road thru much of the area, and this is the only location where traffic on that road has to stop.
Yes, very much this.
Main St through Cove City becomes Wintergreen Rd to the north of this intersection (after a curve) and goes all the way up to NC-55 just east of Fort Barnwell (6 miles north) without stopping. Southbound from this intersection this road picks up the NC-41 designation at the Jones County line and the first stop along the road is at Ten Mile Fork road which is 6.3 miles south of this intersection.
Oh and thanks for straightening me out on the light not counting for this thread. I agree the setup it self is rather ugly, but the effect is kinda cool at night. It flashes top-bottom-top like the old style caution lights at many race tracks before they went to strobe lights at most of them.