One thing that has always fascinated me is how Maryland features a large amount of census-designated places (CDPs), which are unincorporated areas that have generally have their own zipcode as well as a clearly-defined area in which the CDP sits. I don't think that any other state comes close to Maryland in how many people live in those CDPs. Some of Maryland's well known areas, such as Silver Spring, aren't municipal corporations; They are unincorporated communities formed within the county. Here's a look at Maryland's largest "city" populations, from Wikipedia:
Rank | City Name | Population as of 2010 US Census | Municipality Type |
| 1. | Baltimore | 620,961 | Independent City |
| 2. | Columbia | 99,515 | CDP (Planned Community) |
| 3. | Germantown | 86,395 | CDP |
| 4. | Silver Spring | 71,452 | CDP |
| 5. | Waldorf | 67,752 | CDP |
| 6. | Glen Burnie | 67,639 | CDP |
| 7. | Ellicott City | 65,834 | CDP (also the county seat of Howard County) |
| 8. | Frederick | 65,239 | City (also the county seat of Frederick County) |
| 9. | Dundalk | 63,597 | CDP |
| 10. | Rockville | 61,209 | City |
Do any other US states have high-profile CDPs like Maryland does? Outside of Baltimore, most of it's population centers are unincorporated. I can't think of any other big name unincorporated communities (there was one in California that was pretty large...), so does anyone else know what else exists?
Maryland does seem unique in that. In Florida there is many people who live in unincorporated areas but there is a smaller town or city at the core.
Baltimore County has no incorporated communities
Delaware has quite a number, including Hockessin & Bear. Due to the suburban-sprawl nature of these places a good distance away from major cities, they don't have anywhere near the population of those pointed out in Maryland.
Nevada has quite a few CDPs, and the largest of them (Paradise) is about the same size as Reno. The four most populous ones are Paradise (pop. 223,167), Sunrise Manor (189,372), Spring Valley (178,395) and Enterprise (108,481).
Quote from: walkingman on April 03, 2016, 11:20:56 AM
Nevada has quite a few CDPs, and the largest of them (Paradise) is about the same size as Reno. The four most populous ones are Paradise (pop. 223,167), Sunrise Manor (189,372), Spring Valley (178,395) and Enterprise (108,481).
Oh wow, I was unaware that most of the Las Vegas suburbs were unincorporated - those are some very large communities!
Hawaii has only CDPs (Honolulu CDP the most prominent among them), with no incorporated communities, nor any local governments below the county level.
One of New Orleans's largest suburbs, Metairie, is entirely unincorporated.
Florida is infamous for CDPs all over the state. There is generally a lot of push back from annexation or consolidation into a city. That's why cities like Tampa and Orlando have a surprisingly low population while their metro areas are quite large. Orange County is probably the best example of this, you don't have any huge Nevada size CDPs but a whole lot of places that probably should be annexed into Orlando proper.
New York has a lot of hamlets, which are effectively CDPs. Some of these, such as Levittown on Long Island, are the size of a medium-sized city. Notably, there are very few incorporated villages and zero cities inside Adirondack Park, with Lake George, Lake Placid, Saranac Lake, Tupper Lake, Speculator, Port Henry, Dannemora and Northfield being the only incorporated villages, most of these being near the edge of the park. The rest of the settlements, including Old Forge and Ticonderoga, are CDPs.
Quote from: cl94 on April 03, 2016, 07:35:30 PM
New York has a lot of hamlets, which are effectively CDPs. Some of these, such as Levittown on Long Island, are the size of a medium-sized city. Notably, there are very few incorporated villages and zero cities inside Adirondack Park, with Lake George, Lake Placid, Saranac Lake, Tupper Lake, Speculator, Port Henry, Dannemora and Northfield being the only incorporated villages, most of these being near the edge of the park. The rest of the settlements, including Old Forge and Ticonderoga, are CDPs.
Hempstead, while not unincorporated, strikes me as interesting, because of how large it's incorporated areas are. The Wikipedia article states that if it were to become one consolidated city, it would be just ahead of Fort Worth, TX and Columbus, OH. That is definitely unique.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2016, 07:21:30 PM
Florida is infamous for CDPs all over the state. There is generally a lot of push back from annexation or consolidation into a city. That's why cities like Tampa and Orlando have a surprisingly low population while their metro areas are quite large. Orange County is probably the best example of this, you don't have any huge Nevada size CDPs but a whole lot of places that probably should be annexed into Orlando proper.
I was actually shocked poking around Orlando to find that this is a true statement. I was unaware that Orange County had a decent amount of unincorporated areas.
Quote from: Darkchylde on April 03, 2016, 06:13:29 PM
One of New Orleans's largest suburbs, Metairie, is entirely unincorporated.
That was something I was totally unaware of. I thought Metairie was independent.
Quote from: Zeffy on April 03, 2016, 08:34:17 PM
Quote from: cl94 on April 03, 2016, 07:35:30 PM
New York has a lot of hamlets, which are effectively CDPs. Some of these, such as Levittown on Long Island, are the size of a medium-sized city. Notably, there are very few incorporated villages and zero cities inside Adirondack Park, with Lake George, Lake Placid, Saranac Lake, Tupper Lake, Speculator, Port Henry, Dannemora and Northfield being the only incorporated villages, most of these being near the edge of the park. The rest of the settlements, including Old Forge and Ticonderoga, are CDPs.
Hempstead, while not unincorporated, strikes me as interesting, because of how large it's incorporated areas are. The Wikipedia article states that if it were to become one consolidated city, it would be just ahead of Fort Worth, TX and Columbus, OH. That is definitely unique.
The town of Hempstead is an oddity because, as you said, if the entire town incorporated as a single city, it would be the 16th largest in the country and second largest in New York by quite a large margin, being 3 times the size of Buffalo. The eponymous village is the largest village in the state and the parts of the town that are not part of a village make up quite a large portion of the population. The other 2 largest villages in the state lie in the town as well. No village outside of Hempstead has a population over 32,000. Levittown is one of the largest CDPs in the country and the second-largest in the northeast (behind Brookhaven). The town as a whole has a higher population density than either Columbus or Houston.
Florida's kind of an odd case because many CDPs are also CDDs–community development districts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Development_District). They're not municipal governments exactly, but they fulfill some of the duties municipalities typically do (local streets, public water, parks, fire prevention, etc.) They have elected boards, can issue municipal bonds, and collect assessments from property owners.
You can think of them as either junior municipalities or super homeowners' associations.
Quote from: briantroutman on April 03, 2016, 09:24:40 PM
Florida's kind of an odd case because many CDPs are also CDDs–community development districts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Development_District). They're not municipal governments exactly, but they fulfill some of the duties municipalities typically do (local streets, public water, parks, fire prevention, etc.) They have elected boards, can issue municipal bonds, and collect assessments from property owners.
You can think of them as either junior municipalities or super homeowners' associations.
Somewhat like Charter Townships (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_township)?
Illinois (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_census-designated_places_in_Illinois) has no real CDPs that rival municipalities. It's current largest is Gages Lake (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gages_Lake,_Illinois) in Lake County at 10,200 people. Goodings Grove (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodings_Grove,_Illinois) in Will County was larger at 17,000, but incorporated into the Village of Homer Glen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_Glen,_Illinois) in 2001.
Michigan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unincorporated_communities_in_Michigan) has some that are big in their area, but would be small elsewhere (some of the ones in the UP come to mind). Many others are part of charter townships (such as Okemos in Meridian Charter Township near Lansing).
Virginia has them as well.
Three that immediately come to mind are Tysons Corner (now the preferred name is just Tysons, with more employment than many "traditional" cities), Reston and Dunn Loring in Fairfax County.
West of Fairfax County are Sterling, Dulles Town Center (the place, not the airport) and Ashburn, located north of the airport in Loudoun County.
Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2016, 09:42:09 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on April 03, 2016, 09:24:40 PM
Florida's kind of an odd case because many CDPs are also CDDs–community development districts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Development_District). They're not municipal governments exactly, but they fulfill some of the duties municipalities typically do (local streets, public water, parks, fire prevention, etc.) They have elected boards, can issue municipal bonds, and collect assessments from property owners.
You can think of them as either junior municipalities or super homeowners' associations.
Somewhat like Charter Townships (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_township)?
Illinois (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_census-designated_places_in_Illinois) has no real CDPs that rival municipalities. It's current largest is Gages Lake (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gages_Lake,_Illinois) in Lake County at 10,200 people. Goodings Grove (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodings_Grove,_Illinois) in Will County was larger at 17,000, but incorporated into the Village of Homer Glen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_Glen,_Illinois) in 2001.
Michigan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unincorporated_communities_in_Michigan) has some that are big in their area, but would be small elsewhere (some of the ones in the UP come to mind). Many others are part of charter townships (such as Okemos in Meridian Charter Township near Lansing).
And they get confusing as all hell when there is a township and an actual town of the same name next to each other. I wouldn't exactly call a Charter Township a CDP since there is some minimal form of government that goes into running them.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 03, 2016, 11:10:01 PM
And they get confusing as all hell when there is a township and an actual town of the same name next to each other. I wouldn't exactly call a Charter Township a CDP since there is some minimal form of government that goes into running them.
But a large number of Michigan CDPs are located within charter townships. At least on the west side of the state, the most prominent of these are in the Grand Rapids metro area, which are Byron Center, Comstock Park, Cutlerville, Forest Hills, and Northview. In the Detroit area, the two most populous townships (Clinton in Macomb County and Canton in Wayne County) are also CDPs.
The reason for New York's situation is because our towns are perfectly active local governments, but the Census doesn't regard them as "places"–they're areal subdivisions of counties. So if a town has a large, relatively dense population, the Census designates its own place–a Census-Designated Place, indeed–to account for the situation.
This is different from the situation in Maryland, which has no sub-county tier of government besides its incorporated places, which as has been mentioned do not comprise most of the huge suburban and even urban settlements like Columbia and Bethesda. The lowest level of general-purpose government in those places is the county (though I'm sure there are various special districts encompassing these areas).
iPhone
Quote from: empirestate on April 04, 2016, 10:14:30 AM
The reason for New York's situation is because our towns are perfectly active local governments, but the Census doesn't regard them as "places"–they're areal subdivisions of counties. So if a town has a large, relatively dense population, the Census designates its own place–a Census-Designated Place, indeed–to account for the situation.
This is different from the situation in Maryland, which has no sub-county tier of government besides its incorporated places, which as has been mentioned do not comprise most of the huge suburban and even urban settlements like Columbia and Bethesda. The lowest level of general-purpose government in those places is the county (though I'm sure there are various special districts encompassing these areas).
iPhone
A similar situation exists in 5 of the New England states and parts of Maine. The land is incorporated as part of a town, but a CDP is designated to be more specific.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 03, 2016, 11:04:52 PM
Virginia has them as well.
Three that immediately come to mind are Tysons Corner (now the preferred name is just Tysons, with more employment than many "traditional" cities), Reston and Dunn Loring in Fairfax County.
West of Fairfax County are Sterling, Dulles Town Center (the place, not the airport) and Ashburn, located north of the airport in Loudoun County.
Also of note in Northern Virginia are Woodbridge and Dale City. Further south there is Stafford (140 k people!)...
Mike
As long as we're talking about census-designated places in Virginia, don't forget Arlington, the second most populous "city" in the DC area.
Quote from: Doctor Whom on April 04, 2016, 10:18:30 PM
As long as we're talking about census-designated places in Virginia, don't forget Arlington, the second most populous "city" in the DC area.
Since Arlington is a county, is it (or does it matter if it is) even designated as a CDP? I thought CDPs were basically unincorporated communities without their own municipal governments, which Arlington definitely is not.
Quote from: oscar on April 04, 2016, 10:54:50 PM
Quote from: Doctor Whom on April 04, 2016, 10:18:30 PM
As long as we're talking about census-designated places in Virginia, don't forget Arlington, the second most populous "city" in the DC area.
Since Arlington is a county, is it (or does it matter if it is) even designated as a CDP? I thought CDPs were basically unincorporated communities without their own municipal governments, which Arlington definitely is not.
It is at the "place" level, so yeah, they do treat is as a CDP.
Census hierarchy basically has three tiers below the state level: county, county subdivision, and place. Counties and county subdivisions are areal features that account for all territory, so if there's no actual administrative feature there, the census makes one up. For example, independent cities are treated as quasi-counties to make sure there's always a county-level feature everywhere. At the county subdivision level, they typically use civil towns/townships (MCDs), if the state has them, or make up their own subdivisions (CCDs) if the state doesn't. For the former type of state, if its cities, villages etc. are independent from the towns/townships, then again the census makes up a fake subdivision to account for those cities/villages at the subdivision level.
And then at the bottom tier are "places", which do not have to be areally extensive; they exist only where there's a concentrated population. These include incorporated municipalities like cities, towns in some states, villages, and boroughs–but not any municipality that acts like a subdivision–and unincorporated places, for which, once again, the census makes up its own entities called CDPs.
So in the case of Arlington, the lowest actual jurisdiction is Arlington County, so that's the county-level entity. Arlington has no subdivisions (Virginia uses magisterial districts generally), so the census has made up a "pseudo county subdivision", the only one in the U.S., to stand for Arlington County at the subdivision level. And since Arlington also has no municipalities in it, the population center that is Arlington is regarded as one whole CDP at the place level.
Arlington is also such a unique case in that it is effectively an independent city. It might be structured as a county, but the difference is minimal from an observer's point of view. As stated above, it is so unique that it has a single CDP covering the entire county that is, for all intents and purposes, classified as a city.
As near as I can tell, all Air Force bases are CDP's, and perhaps all military bases are.
I think some villages on native reservations are also CDP's.
The Midwest actually has relatively few CDP's, but suburban Cincinnati has some.
A lot of CDP's sound like they might just be huge homeowners' associations that aren't accountable to anyone.
Incidentally, every place I've ever lived was in an incorporated place, not a CDP.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 05, 2016, 11:25:15 AM
I think some villages on native reservations are also CDP's.
The Midwest actually has relatively few CDP's, but suburban Cincinnati has some.
A lot of CDP's sound like they might just be huge homeowners' associations that aren't accountable to anyone.
Ohio and some of the surrounding states are weird in that larger cities annex nearby unincorporated places as they develop, preventing the townships from staying developed for long. That's how Columbus reached its present size. The MSA only has ~10 CDPs, even though it covers 11 counties.
Many, if not most of Houston's suburbs are CDPs. That includes ~40% of Harris County's population (~1.8 million)
Kentucky has one unincorporated county seat, curiously named Whitley City, the seat of McCreary County. Louisville has several CDPs, including Fern Creek and Fairdale, but they effectively were annexed by Louisville when it merged with Jefferson County in 2003.
iPhone
It seems Pennsylvania is a little weird defining what a CDP is. This short PDF (http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/counties/pdfs/aa_preface.pdf) from 1965 states that there are classes of cities, and there is Second Class A, created from Scranton (which was chartered into). Scranton today has 75,803 people form the 2013 estimate, but it is still 2nd Class A. A PDF shows the different classes of cities, but CDP's seem rare. Three that I know of is Hershey (14,257), Paxatonia (5,412) and Linglestown (6,334). So I'm not sure if cities such as Chambersburg (20,360) as a 7th class city is incorporated or not.
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 07, 2016, 10:12:36 PM
So I'm not sure if cities such as Chambersburg (20,360) as a 7th class city is incorporated or not.
Chambersburg was incorporated in March 21, 1803.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on April 05, 2016, 01:00:54 PM
Many, if not most of Houston's suburbs are CDPs. That includes ~40% of Harris County's population (~1.8 million)
I wonder which metro area has most of it's population in unincorporated communities/CDPs?
Washington DC?
Washington DC metropolitan area. I was trying to answer the question of which metro had the most unincorporated areas.
Quote from: tidecat on April 07, 2016, 09:18:19 PM
Kentucky has one unincorporated county seat, curiously named Whitley City, the seat of McCreary County.
There is one other: Burlington in Boone County, which is a CDP.
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 07, 2016, 10:12:36 PM
It seems Pennsylvania is a little weird defining what a CDP is. This short PDF (http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/counties/pdfs/aa_preface.pdf) from 1965 states that there are classes of cities, and there is Second Class A, created from Scranton (which was chartered into). Scranton today has 75,803 people form the 2013 estimate, but it is still 2nd Class A. A PDF shows the different classes of cities, but CDP's seem rare. Three that I know of is Hershey (14,257), Paxatonia (5,412) and Linglestown (6,334). So I'm not sure if cities such as Chambersburg (20,360) as a 7th class city is incorporated or not.
Any city is incorporated, by definition. However, Chambersburg isn't one, it's a borough (also incorporated, by definition).
Where'd you see it listed as a 7th-class city? As you mentioned, PA doesn't have that many classes of city–but perhaps that's an old-fashioned classification for what's now known as a borough?
Quote from: oscar on April 03, 2016, 12:02:25 PM
Hawaii has only CDPs (Honolulu CDP the most prominent among them), with no incorporated communities, nor any local governments below the county level.
Quote from: empirestate on April 08, 2016, 11:56:37 AM
Any city is incorporated, by definition.
Ergo, Honolulu is not a city. By extrapolation, the sky is not blue and pigs can fly.
Quote from: empirestate on April 08, 2016, 11:56:37 AM
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 07, 2016, 10:12:36 PM
It seems Pennsylvania is a little weird defining what a CDP is. This short PDF (http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/counties/pdfs/aa_preface.pdf) from 1965 states that there are classes of cities, and there is Second Class A, created from Scranton (which was chartered into). Scranton today has 75,803 people form the 2013 estimate, but it is still 2nd Class A. A PDF shows the different classes of cities, but CDP's seem rare. Three that I know of is Hershey (14,257), Paxatonia (5,412) and Linglestown (6,334). So I'm not sure if cities such as Chambersburg (20,360) as a 7th class city is incorporated or not.
Any city is incorporated, by definition. However, Chambersburg isn't one, it's a borough (also incorporated, by definition).
Where'd you see it listed as a 7th-class city? As you mentioned, PA doesn't have that many classes of city–but perhaps that's an old-fashioned classification for what's now known as a borough?
I can't post the link itself (it leads to a 404 error), but here's the search I used to find the PDF.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pa+city+classes&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
It's the 2nd link down, Pennsylvania Municipalities.
Quote from: Zeffy on April 07, 2016, 10:44:33 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on April 07, 2016, 10:12:36 PM
So I'm not sure if cities such as Chambersburg (20,360) as a 7th class city is incorporated or not.
Chambersburg was incorporated in March 21, 1803.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on April 05, 2016, 01:00:54 PM
Many, if not most of Houston's suburbs are CDPs. That includes ~40% of Harris County's population (~1.8 million)
I wonder which metro area has most of it's population in unincorporated communities/CDPs?
Sacramento's metro is also about 40% unincorporated (850,336 out of 2,149,127, using 2010 census numbers).
For another type of high-profile CDPs, Stanford CA and Notre Dame IN come to mind. Both are CDPs consisting mostly of a university.
Also, CDPs are Chinese to me, since I live in a country where every damn square inch belongs to a municipality.
Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2016, 01:08:44 PM
Quote from: oscar on April 03, 2016, 12:02:25 PM
Hawaii has only CDPs (Honolulu CDP the most prominent among them), with no incorporated communities, nor any local governments below the county level.
Quote from: empirestate on April 08, 2016, 11:56:37 AM
Any city is incorporated, by definition.
Ergo, Honolulu is not a city. By extrapolation, the sky is not blue and pigs can fly.
Honolulu is not in Pennsylvania, which context is critical to the reading of my quote.
That said, it's my understanding that Honolulu is incorporated but consolidated with the county. The census, for its own purposes, this disregards Honolulu's status as a corporate entity. That allows them to separately enumerate the various settlements inside the city.
Quote from: empirestate on April 08, 2016, 06:24:04 PM
That said, it's my understanding that Honolulu is incorporated but consolidated with the county. The census, for its own purposes, this disregards Honolulu's status as a corporate entity. That allows them to separately enumerate the various settlements inside the city.
Not sure about that. Whatever might once have been the case -- Honolulu County is called "City and County of Honolulu", after all, so at one point there might have been a separate city government -- my quick scan of the Hawaii Revised Statutes found no current provisions for municipal incorporation, or for any local government below the county level. There's no room for the Honolulu CDP, or any other urban place, to establish its own local government, separate from its county government.
Quote from: oscar on April 08, 2016, 06:49:17 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 08, 2016, 06:24:04 PM
That said, it's my understanding that Honolulu is incorporated but consolidated with the county. The census, for its own purposes, this disregards Honolulu's status as a corporate entity. That allows them to separately enumerate the various settlements inside the city.
Not sure about that. Whatever might once have been the case -- Honolulu County is called "City and County of Honolulu", after all, so at one point there might have been a separate city government -- my quick scan of the Hawaii Revised Statutes found no current provisions for municipal incorporation, or for any local government below the county level. There's no room for the Honolulu CDP, or any other urban place, to establish its own local government, separate from its county government.
No, it wouldn't be just the CDP; it's the whole island that's the city.
I think there's no question that there can't be any cities besides Honolulu; the only question is whether, by consolidating with county, the corporate entity that is/was the city of Honolulu ceased to be. It may not be separately incorporated anymore, but it's also not less-incorporated.
I think it's largely a matter of perspective; there may not be a legally verifiable answer.
I know in Montana, where we have consolidated city-counties (Butte-Silver Bow and Anaconda-Deer Lodge), the consolidated entities are considered to be cities by the lawyers and insurance companies (and the lawyers and insurance companies would certainly know what's right) - represented by the Montana Municipal Interlocal Authority as opposed to the Montana Association of Counties.
Oscar would be right though - if the Hawaii Revised Statutes don't provide any means of forming a city government, then cities wouldn't be able to exist and Honolulu would be a county, no matter what it calls itself.
Quote from: corco on April 08, 2016, 07:42:18 PM
Oscar would be right though - if the Hawaii Revised Statutes don't provide any means of forming a city government, then cities wouldn't be able to exist and Honolulu would be a county, no matter what it calls itself.
But it's already formed; there's a difference between existing and being formed. What we'd need is something stating the dissolution of the corporation. In other words, was the city actually dissolved, or did it just stop mattering when it merged with the county?
The reason I wonder is because the census specifically says that it ignores Honolulu's city status, rather than that there is no city status.
A similar case would the nation's capital: does the city of Washington still exist, since it's governmentally merged with the District of Columbia?
Quote from: Zeffy on April 03, 2016, 10:10:13 AM
One thing that has always fascinated me is how Maryland features a large amount of census-designated places (CDPs), which are unincorporated areas that have generally have their own zipcode as well as a clearly-defined area in which the CDP sits. I don't think that any other state comes close to Maryland in how many people live in those CDPs. Some of Maryland's well known areas, such as Silver Spring, aren't municipal corporations; They are unincorporated communities formed within the county.
This is because Maryland's laws are unique in that they provide little or no benefits of municipal incorporation, so there are very few areas that have incorporated. Many services which are (in other states) provided at the town or city level, are provided at the county level here. Emergency services (police, fire, ambulance) are usually provided by the county. School districts are county-wide.
Incorporation gives a community the ability to run their own police department, and the ability to create a "special tax area" for state income tax purposes, but that's about it. Why have your own police department when the county provides one for you? (I'm not saying it isn't done, but it also isn't common.) Income tax revenue is attractive, but not when you don't really need to do anything with the money.
Of course this causes some head-scratching results. My home address, for example, is technically Westminster, even though I reside well outside the incorporated city, much closer to Taneytown. I can drive for a half hour in almost any direction and still be in Westminster as far as the Post Office is concerned. The (unincorporated) town of Mount Airy is located in four different counties - it's at the quad-point of Montgomery, Frederick, Carroll, and Howard Counties, with parts of the "town" in each.
This was all very confusing, having moved here from New England where everything is at the town level, all the land in a given state is part of one town or another, and counties are little more than arbitrary lines on a map.
New Jersey is interesting because every square land of land in the state is in an incorporated community. However, counties are very much so a big thing. I'm guessing the "boroughitis" phase is the reason why most of our towns/cities are incorporated.
Quote from: tckma on April 13, 2016, 02:29:14 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on April 03, 2016, 10:10:13 AM
One thing that has always fascinated me is how Maryland features a large amount of census-designated places (CDPs), which are unincorporated areas that have generally have their own zipcode as well as a clearly-defined area in which the CDP sits. I don't think that any other state comes close to Maryland in how many people live in those CDPs. Some of Maryland's well known areas, such as Silver Spring, aren't municipal corporations; They are unincorporated communities formed within the county.
This is because Maryland's laws are unique in that they provide little or no benefits of municipal incorporation, so there are very few areas that have incorporated. Many services which are (in other states) provided at the town or city level, are provided at the county level here. Emergency services (police, fire, ambulance) are usually provided by the county. School districts are county-wide.
Incorporation gives a community the ability to run their own police department, and the ability to create a "special tax area" for state income tax purposes, but that's about it. Why have your own police department when the county provides one for you? (I'm not saying it isn't done, but it also isn't common.) Income tax revenue is attractive, but not when you don't really need to do anything with the money.
Does that explain all the weird, tiny municipalities in the Chevy Chase area (but not the commercial center of Chevy Chase)? Are they just wanting to act as officially sanctioned HOAs?
Quote from: tckma on April 13, 2016, 02:29:14 PMOf course this causes some head-scratching results. My home address, for example, is technically Westminster, even though I reside well outside the incorporated city, much closer to Taneytown. I can drive for a half hour in almost any direction and still be in Westminster as far as the Post Office is concerned.
All the post office cares about is where the mail for your house comes from. Sometimes they'll bend and add additional "acceptable" local names to a Zip Code, but the primary name for a Zip Code is
almost always the post office responsible for delivering the mail.
Quote from: empirestate on April 13, 2016, 09:13:27 PM
Quote from: tckma on April 13, 2016, 02:29:14 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on April 03, 2016, 10:10:13 AM
One thing that has always fascinated me is how Maryland features a large amount of census-designated places (CDPs), which are unincorporated areas that have generally have their own zipcode as well as a clearly-defined area in which the CDP sits. I don't think that any other state comes close to Maryland in how many people live in those CDPs. Some of Maryland's well known areas, such as Silver Spring, aren't municipal corporations; They are unincorporated communities formed within the county.
This is because Maryland's laws are unique in that they provide little or no benefits of municipal incorporation, so there are very few areas that have incorporated. Many services which are (in other states) provided at the town or city level, are provided at the county level here. Emergency services (police, fire, ambulance) are usually provided by the county. School districts are county-wide.
Incorporation gives a community the ability to run their own police department, and the ability to create a "special tax area" for state income tax purposes, but that's about it. Why have your own police department when the county provides one for you? (I'm not saying it isn't done, but it also isn't common.) Income tax revenue is attractive, but not when you don't really need to do anything with the money.
Does that explain all the weird, tiny municipalities in the Chevy Chase area (but not the commercial center of Chevy Chase)? Are they just wanting to act as officially sanctioned HOAs?
Maybe. I'm not terribly familiar with them other than the fact that they exist, and are listed as "Special Taxing Areas" on our state income tax instructions.
Quote from: Zeffy on April 03, 2016, 11:49:55 AMOh wow, I was unaware that most of the Las Vegas suburbs were unincorporated - those are some very large communities!
Is Paradise a suburb, or the place with the main CBD?
In the UK, until 1974 (after which civil parishes could resolve themselves to be Town Councils, though it was merely a rebranding exercise by then - likewise borough status and city status that remained needing a royal charter - all totally meaningless other than for marketing reasons) town status needed a charter from the monarch (to the relevant Lord) allowing it to hold markets / fairs*. There were reforms in the 1830s that redid the list, with Parliament taking the lead and Sailor Bill just rubber-stamping. Since the reforms there's few non-entity towns, and most places of reasonable size got town charters.
*and the terms of my town's 402 year old revision of the charter (changing the day of the week that the market was allowed to be held on and changing the date of the fair) demand a fair on the 19th of September (unless its Sunday, in which case it must be held on the 18th or 20th instead) each year to be valid. I'm pretty sure that if a market isn't held one Tuesday, unless that day is a specific holiday (eg Christmas), the charter is null and void and the town ceases to be a town (until the council votes to make itself a town).
This seems to be the appropriate time to post this:
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2016, 03:09:04 PM
This seems to be the appropriate time to post this:
Isn't gambling illegal in the city limits?
Quote from: cl94 on April 14, 2016, 03:13:09 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2016, 03:09:04 PM
This seems to be the appropriate time to post this:
Isn't gambling illegal in the city limits?
Uh, no. Freemont Street is entirely within the city limits, which contains about 10 casinos (give or take 1 or 2 that have opened or closed in recent years.
Quote from: english si on April 14, 2016, 03:03:53 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on April 03, 2016, 11:49:55 AMOh wow, I was unaware that most of the Las Vegas suburbs were unincorporated - those are some very large communities!
Is Paradise a suburb, or the place with the main CBD?
I suppose it's the place with the main BD, but not the main CBD, if you take my meaning. There is still downtown Las Vegas, inside the city limits, which is the CBD–central business district–where city and county government are centered and where the original hub of economic and tourist activity was (think Rat Pack era).
But the Strip is by far the busier business district, it's just not the central one. Most of the strip is located outside the city limit in what's called Paradise by somebody–the Census, I guess–but not by the locals and certainly not the tourists. Before the Strip was developed, I'm not sure Paradise had any recognition as a place name or locality at all.
Until recent years, Sandy Springs and Dunwoody were large unincorporated suburbs of Atlanta. Both have since incorporated. In fact, Sandy Springs is now Atlanta's largest suburb and one of ten largest in Georgia.
Quote from: golden eagle on May 30, 2016, 10:45:17 PM
Until recent years, Sandy Springs and Dunwoody were large unincorporated suburbs of Atlanta. Both have since incorporated. In fact, Sandy Springs is now Atlanta's largest suburb and one of ten largest in Georgia.
The incorporation of Sandy Springs doesn't seem to have done much, since I read an article that said Sandy Springs doesn't even provide any public services. All they do is farm out their services to corporations. It's really just a giant HOA run from out of state.
Quote from: bandit957 on June 01, 2016, 06:53:40 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on May 30, 2016, 10:45:17 PM
Until recent years, Sandy Springs and Dunwoody were large unincorporated suburbs of Atlanta. Both have since incorporated. In fact, Sandy Springs is now Atlanta's largest suburb and one of ten largest in Georgia.
The incorporation of Sandy Springs doesn't seem to have done much, since I read an article that said Sandy Springs doesn't even provide any public services. All they do is farm out their services to corporations. It's really just a giant HOA run from out of state.
Actually, they do provide some services, most notably police, fire, and city management.
http://www.sandyspringsga.gov/
http://www.sandyspringsga.gov/government/city-history-and-culture
http://www.sandyspringsga.gov/government/city-history-and-culture/public-private-partnership