The Baltimore and Capital beltways are two of today's most popular and congested beltways. Also both are extremely important to their respected cities. Which one would you rather travel on and is more of an enjoyable drive? Also which one is more helpful(in terms of reducing traffic) to their metro area?
Since you posted this in the road meet section, maybe we should all get together and find out? :) :)
Some of us already have.
I think I-285 in Atlanta and I-495 in MD/DC/VA is the true battle of the beltways (and which one is more rage inducing, although I haven't experienced I-285 yet).
Interesting question. Does it belong under Road Enthusiast Meetings?
I'm much more familiar with the 64 mile Capital Beltway, and driven all parts of both loops many times. It helps to know which lanes to use on which parts. Hate to say it, but I love the VA Express Lanes (not just because of less congestion, but marginally better ramps at I-66). So in terms of enjoyable or which one I'd rather travel on, I guess DC qualifies. It helps that it gets me where I need to go. However, the view from the top of Key Bridge is also pretty enjoyable.
Originally, the 51 mile long Balt Beltway had cooler interchanges. The I-70 stack, and particularly the I-95 braiding and left hand exits were marvels for their time. Capital Beltway now has numerous interchanges with flyover ramps going every which way, and I'm not sure Balt has kept pace in this regard.
The top of the Balt Beltway includes the I-83 concurrency; 19 miles are technically MD 695. On the other hand, nothing beats the Capital Beltway's concurrency of I-95/495.
Reducing traffic? Neither one.
Two things used to be possible on the DC Beltway back in the 70's, only one of which is physically possible today.
1) circumnavigate in under an hour.
2) circumnavigate without changing lanes.
Were/are either possible on the Baltimore Beltway?
I was say the DC Beltway is miles more important than the others as it also carries the main highway around the city. In the other cases, the main highway goes thru the city.
Yes it should have been in General Highway talk
Unsure, but being a Braves fan I would rather root for the Orioles than the Nationals. Also the Ravens over the Redskins.
Honestly, though I kinda like driving I-495 when it is not so congested because to me it is the closest I will ever see to Talladega on a freeway (outside of I-285 of course). :-D
Quote from: davewiecking on April 13, 2016, 11:29:21 PMthe I-95 braiding and left hand exits were marvels for their time. Were/are either possible on the Baltimore Beltway?
Due to the addition of the Express I-95 Toll lanes & corridor, only I-695 mainline is still braided through the northern I-95 interchange.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 13, 2016, 11:34:20 PM
I was say the DC Beltway is miles more important than the others as it also carries the main highway around the city. In the other cases, the main highway goes thru the city.
As most of us, including yourself, know; such wasn't the original plan for the Capital Beltway. The original plan for I-95 between College Park, MD and DC was cancelled.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 14, 2016, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 13, 2016, 11:34:20 PM
I was say the DC Beltway is miles more important than the others as it also carries the main highway around the city. In the other cases, the main highway goes thru the city.
As most of us, including yourself, know; such wasn't the original plan for the Capital Beltway. The original plan for I-95 between College Park, MD and DC was cancelled.
If we're defining the "main highway" as I-95, then yes. But aren't I-66, I-70, and I-83 also main highways? While two of the three penetrate their respective cities, none of the three actually pass through.
I see this got moved to General Highway Talk. If anything, given the subject, it should've been moved to Mid-Atlantic instead.
Quote from: froggie on April 14, 2016, 11:11:04 AM
I see this got moved to General Highway Talk.
And rightly so. When I first clicked on the thread; I thought such was for a potential road meet in that area. Given, the close proximity of those 2 beltways; one could clinch both beltways easily in one day.
Quote from: froggie on April 14, 2016, 11:11:04 AMIf anything, given the subject, it should've been moved to Mid-Atlantic instead.
Unless such gets hijacked by talk about other beltways (somebody did mention I-285 in Atlanta earlier in the thread); I would agree.
Quote from: froggie on April 14, 2016, 10:56:35 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 14, 2016, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 13, 2016, 11:34:20 PM
I was say the DC Beltway is miles more important than the others as it also carries the main highway around the city. In the other cases, the main highway goes thru the city.
As most of us, including yourself, know; such wasn't the original plan for the Capital Beltway. The original plan for I-95 between College Park, MD and DC was cancelled.
If we're defining the "main highway" as I-95, then yes. But aren't I-66, I-70, and I-83 also main highways? While two of the three penetrate their respective cities, none of the three actually pass through.
Based on Jeff's post (and I could be mistaken); I believe that when he said,
"carries the main highway around the city", he was indeed referring to the I-95/eastern half of the Capital Beltway.
Your other main highway examples (I-66, 70 & 83) were never envisioned, to the best of my knowledge, to go
completely through their respective cities. All of them were supposed to terminate (originally at highway interchanges)
inside city limits. Whereas I-95, from the get-go, was envisioned to be a through-highway in the Baltimore & DC areas.
QuoteYour other main highway examples (I-66, 70 & 83) were never envisioned, to the best of my knowledge, to go completely through their respective cities. All of them were supposed to terminate (originally at highway interchanges) inside city limits.
Strictly speaking, yes. But the inference is that, had they been built, travelers could still use them to go through a city.
The Baltimore Beltway does not have to do double-duty as I-95 (a short section on the southwest side once did), but about half of the Capital Beltway (on the south and east sides) must carry much of the "through" I-95 traffic of cars and trucks in addition to local movements.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 14, 2016, 06:33:52 PM
The Baltimore Beltway does not have to do double-duty as I-95 (a short section on the southwest side once did), but about half of the Capital Beltway (on the south and east sides) must carry much of the "through" I-95 traffic of cars and trucks in addition to local movements.
Still is below capacity. Traffic only occurs due to accidents or Redskins games. Proves no need for a highway through DC.
I'd much rather drive Baltimore's. I've driven the length of both of them and from a traffic standpoint, I-695 wins hands-down in my view. Plus, Key Bridge > Wilson Bridge.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2016, 09:32:20 PM
Plus, Key Bridge > Wilson Bridge.
Wilson Bridge has the distinction of touching three state-level jurisdictions. Don't know of many, if any, others that do that.
Baltimore Beltway by far. But I'm a little biased. :bigass:
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on April 14, 2016, 07:57:10 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 14, 2016, 06:33:52 PM
The Baltimore Beltway does not have to do double-duty as I-95 (a short section on the southwest side once did), but about half of the Capital Beltway (on the south and east sides) must carry much of the "through" I-95 traffic of cars and trucks in addition to local movements.
Still is below capacity. Traffic only occurs due to accidents or Redskins games. Proves no need for a highway through DC.
The overloaded nature of U.S. 50 in Prince George's County does. As does the economic stagnation of areas along the Green Line (compare and contrast West Hyattsville and Prince George's Plaza to the stops along the Orange Line).
A significant percentage of goods delivered by truck to the District of Columbia comes down U.S. 50 from Maryland, then continues into the city via U.S. 50 or Md. 201/D.C. 295.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on April 14, 2016, 07:57:10 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 14, 2016, 06:33:52 PM
The Baltimore Beltway does not have to do double-duty as I-95 (a short section on the southwest side once did), but about half of the Capital Beltway (on the south and east sides) must carry much of the "through" I-95 traffic of cars and trucks in addition to local movements.
Still is below capacity. Traffic only occurs due to accidents or Redskins games. Proves no need for a highway through DC.
Being at, above, or below capacity doesn't have anything to do with importance. Being able to move traffic thru an area does. Make a road 10 lanes wide each way to eliminate traffic jams doesn't mean the roadway is suddenly unimportant, just as a 2 lane congested roadway going thru a small down because of bad signal timing doesn't make it very important. Using the NJ Turnpike for example, the fact that it was 6 lanes 5 years ago vs. 12 lanes today did not increase or decrease its importance one bit. It simply allowed traffic to flow better.
Yes, I was referring to 95 as the main road, although 'the parent road' would have been a better choice of words.
In this respect, the DC Beltway is of the utmost importance. Without it, 95 would terminate.
The fact that the beltways were built lessoned the importance of building the other 2 di highways headed towards the city, as motorists could use them to get to other destinations. They would've/should've been built, but the beltway assists in carrying the load, and gave opponents even greater reason to cancel the projects.
Now, where do the Hartford, Boston, or Providence beltways figure into all this? :awesomeface: :spin: :bigass:
Because I-95 goes through Baltimore but not Washington, I prefer I-695 as a much better alternative than the western end of I-495. If you don't mind going up to the sky, the Key Bridge is a great way to go, plus you get to view the downtown skyline on a clear day, and it's a much more scenic drive through that part of town, which isn't as built-up as the others.
OTOH, I-495 has the National Cathedral going for it and the few twists and turns in that area, but nothing else.
Quote from: Henry on April 15, 2016, 11:41:25 AM
OTOH, I-495 has the National Cathedral going for it and the few twists and turns in that area, but nothing else.
Wrong. National Cathedral is in DC and nowhere near the Beltway. You're thinking of the Mormon temple in Kensington.
As congested as I-695 gets during rush hours (to a point where my commute is US-29:I-70:MD-97:MD-140 versus US-29:I-70:I-695:I-795:MD-140), I-495/I-95 is much much MORE unpleasant to drive. I try to avoid the DC area entirely whenever possible, opting for US-301 or US-15 to points south, regardless of the time of day, unless I'm specifically headed somewhere inside/near the Beltway. Plus, you don't have the idiotic Lexus Lanes that aren't even properly separated from the main lanes.
Quote from: tckma on April 15, 2016, 02:06:15 PM
As congested as I-695 gets during rush hours (to a point where my commute is US-29:I-70:MD-97:MD-140 versus US-29:I-70:I-695:I-795:MD-140), I-495/I-95 is much much MORE unpleasant to drive. I try to avoid the DC area entirely whenever possible, opting for US-301 or US-15 to points south, regardless of the time of day, unless I'm specifically headed somewhere inside/near the Beltway. Plus, you don't have the idiotic Lexus Lanes that aren't even properly separated from the main lanes.
I would say in terms of volume, the entire capital beltway and the western half I-695 have around the same amount of horrendous traffic, the only difference is the eastern half of I-695 around the key bridge in which traffic is much lighter because most thru traffic takes I-95 or I-895 thru Baltimore.
I am partial to I-495, in part because of the excellent HO/T lanes on the Virginia side. We don't drive to work every day, but when we do, we come home via I-66 (HOV) and the HO/T lanes and we make the 26-mile drive in maybe 25 minutes. If we take the more direct 13-mile route down I-395 or the parallel streets, it's usually closer to 45 minutes at that time of day.
I feel like–and this is a totally unscientific observation made based on my general feeling–there is a lot more ridiculously aggressive driving on the western half of I-695 than there is on I-495, even compared to the PG County section of I-495. My impression is probably skewed because usually if I'm on I-695 it's on a weekend or an off-peak hour. It's not a road I ever have reason to use during peak commuting hours.
I've typically seen the opposite...more asshattery on the PGC side of 495 than on 695. And I took both on a regular basis.
What is posted as an alleged quote of mine omits about 5 sentences spanning multiple paragraphs, leaving 2 sentences that had nothing to do with each other appearing in one paragrph. :pan:
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 14, 2016, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: davewiecking on April 13, 2016, 11:29:21 PMthe I-95 braiding and left hand exits were marvels for their time. Were/are either possible on the Baltimore Beltway?
Due to the addition of the Express I-95 Toll lanes & corridor, only I-695 mainline is still braided through the northern I-95 interchange.
I've seen other sloppy quoting recently which makes it difficult to discern what the new poster is adding to the discussion, because whatever is newly typed appears as part of the original quote. Note https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4000.0 . Thank you.
Quote from: davewiecking on April 16, 2016, 04:59:00 PM
What is posted as an alleged quote of mine omits about 5 sentences spanning multiple paragraphs, leaving 2 sentences that had nothing to do with each other appearing in one paragrph. :pan:
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 14, 2016, 10:43:21 AM
Quote from: davewiecking on April 13, 2016, 11:29:21 PMthe I-95 braiding and left hand exits were marvels for their time. Were/are either possible on the Baltimore Beltway?
Due to the addition of the Express I-95 Toll lanes & corridor, only I-695 mainline is still braided through the northern I-95 interchange.
I've seen other sloppy quoting recently which makes it difficult to discern what the new poster is adding to the discussion, because whatever is newly typed appears as part of the original quote. Note https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4000.0 . Thank you.
Two things:
1. While it's not always easy to interpret one's tone just by looking at the words; the above-comment's
appears to be a bit over the top IMHO (the pan smiley's the dead give-away).
2. The point I was trying to make was that the I-95 braids that you were referring to (which is why I only included that part of your quote rather than the whole thing) have since been eliminated.
Current I-95/695 interchange in Rossville, MD (mainline I-695 still braided) (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3508097,-76.4947861,1470m/data=!3m1!1e3)
vs.
2005 Aerial showing the still-fully-braided I-95/695 Rossville interchange (http://historicaerials.com?layer=2005&zoom=15&lat=39.34992974582867&lon=-76.4972448348999%20via%20@historicaerials)
That's all; nothing more/nothing less.
No malice was intended.
Quote from: froggie on April 16, 2016, 10:00:59 AM
I've typically seen the opposite...more asshattery on the PGC side of 495 than on 695. And I took both on a regular basis.
The Prince George's County side of the Capital Beltway appears to me to have the worst amount of reckless and aggressive driving, followed by U.S. 50 in Prince George's.
IMO, I-695 is relatively mild-mannered by comparison.
One reason may be lanes.
Most of I-95/I-495 (Capital Beltway) is at least four lanes in each direction (only a short section of I-495 in Montgomery County is less than that). Long sections of I-695 are three or even two lanes each way.
Another reason may be no overlap on I-695 with I-95, since it runs through Baltimore City via the Fort McHenry Tunnel.
By far the most-blatant problem on the Capital Beltway and U.S. 50 in Prince George's County is that of "sport bike" (or "crotch rocket") type motorcycles, who are attracted to those roads for several reasons:
(1) It is relatively straight and wide (no "roller coaster" section like Montgomery County);
(2) It is not in Virginia, which means that this (http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/46.2-862/) (which we have discussed many times here) does not apply;
(3) There are several reasonably fast ways to flee into the District of Columbia, where Maryland police will not usually pursue, except in relatively rare cases, and the sport bike riders know that D.C. municipal cops (MPD-DC) will not chase them (though the U.S. Park Police
will sometimes give chase, as they are not bound by MPD general orders); and
(4) No toll section like I-695 at the Francis Scott Key Bridge - toll maintenance also usually means more police enforcement (the MDTA Police are the primary law enforcement on I-695 from Md. 10 north of Glen Burnie (I-695 Exit 3) in Anne Arundel County to Md. 151 at Sparrows Point (Exit 42) in Baltimore County).