A couple of years ago the City of San Angelo painted all the yellow stoplights and the frame thingy black, is there any specific reason the they would do this? Whats your opinion on yellow or black stoplights?
BigMatt
Well, black signals help to make the red, yellow and green lights be seen better. LEDs in yellow signals look weird. The City of Atlanta does this for some of their newer signal, install LED lights in small yellow housings. GDOT, conversely, installs black signals with LEDs.
Be well,
Bryant
I think the color black is used also , especially in Florida, so the sun does not fade the color of the signal frame like yellow would.
Aw, no love for old dark green?
Y'know, as a kid, pretty much every traffic light around was yellow. An awful lot of them still are. So I associate yellow with them most. Not too many black ones, and I always find them weird when I see them. Seems strange, although practically speaking, it makes sense.
In the late 90's when the city of Stamford went around replacing a lot of its old bulb signals with new LED ones, the new heads were yellow with black visors. Although, whatever paint they used wasn't very good. Now, 10+ years later, the paint on a lot of those signals is chipped and flaked away like crazy. Meanwhile the yellow paint from the considerably older signals that are still around is actually in much better condition. Go figure.
^^ Only place I've seen green signals, I think, is in New Orleans.
Be well,
Bryant
I am a man for black and dark green signals mostly because I live in an area where yellow signals are everywhere. Signals seem to be green more in the northeast (mostly New York State) and in places in the southwest. Louisiana also loves green signals. I always also liked combo colored lights. Especially in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Maine where there are signals that have black faces with yellow visors and backs...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_ZkmN2RrOJxw%2FSpxgbEJd1II%2FAAAAAAAANDI%2FNUG4FBqFDvA%2Fs512%2FIMG_9757.JPG&hash=e55a6e2f40a81beb35e8781913a82a05f6e7ef39)
Oh BTW Matt, the black frame thingys are known as "backplates".
Ian
Quote from: Bryant5493 on October 10, 2009, 09:09:05 PM
^^ Only place I've seen green signals, I think, is in New Orleans.
The city of Newport News used green ones for a while. Most on Oyster Point Road at the west end of VA-171 are green, along with a few others, though I believe some are being/have been repainted to black.
Our standard in Hampton is either wires or metal mast arms with yellow signals. In fact they just installed a new such assembly down the street from me last week.
The city of Birmingham just recently went to using black traffic signals.
Green! That seems to be the rule in my area, though they've started switching to dark green and black. The black ones look out of place in my opinion. I've noticed that black ones are starting to pop up in Houston and I see yellow ones in Baton Rouge (any color other than green just seem strange in LA).
Oklahoma City uses yellow signals with a black backplate. Norman uses all black. Personally, I like the way both look.
In Michigan, all new Traffic Signals are using Yellow Backplate with the LED's. The only place that's diffrent is up in Traverse City, where all new LED Signals are using Black Backplates.
I like all three colors, yellow, black, green, though its hard to pick a preference, because as Ian said, its dependent upon what you see everyday. In Florida, all of the signals are black, so when I see an all-yellow signal, its a nice change. When I head to Louisiana, I appreciate the all green signals, because they are not what I am used to. What I don't like, are the "bee-lights", such as what Delaware uses with a yellow back and black front.
FWIW, in California I have seen all brown signals, all purple signals, and even signals painted white (in El Cajon). I believe D.C. uses all gray signals too.
The yellower, the older....at least down here.
Quote from: AARoads on October 11, 2009, 11:28:23 AM
I like all three colors, yellow, black, green, though its hard to pick a preference, because as Ian said, its dependent upon what you see everyday. In Florida, all of the signals are black, so when I see an all-yellow signal, its a nice change. When I head to Louisiana, I appreciate the all green signals, because they are not what I am used to. What I don't like, are the "bee-lights", such as what Delaware uses with a yellow back and black front.
FWIW, in California I have seen all brown signals, all purple signals, and even signals painted white (in El Cajon). I believe D.C. uses all gray signals too.
lol, white signals. Where are the purple ones though Alex? Grey signals are located in DC, but newer signals (at least near the Jefferson Memorial) are becoming all black. In Daly City, CA, I saw signals with black faces and visors with blue backs. I have also seen brown signals too. There are some scattered around the Adirondack Park that are that color...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_ZkmN2RrOJxw%2FSrGgGCVRBBI%2FAAAAAAAAPCM%2FvOM_TGWQ0kA%2Fs512%2FIMG_8990.JPG&hash=9d754772f3251ca88fe4bb4b35727fd2518f2f7b)
The signals in the Boston area have all gray signals aswell.
Quote from: Hellfighter on October 11, 2009, 11:19:35 AM
In Michigan, all new Traffic Signals are using Yellow Backplate with the LED's. The only place that's diffrent is up in Traverse City, where all new LED Signals are using Black Backplates.
Yellow backplates? Is Michigan going Canada style?
Hmmm. I like green, just because I never get to see it and it looks kind of "trafficky" (like guide signs). Otherwise, all yellow is fine with me...it stands out enough. Burton Street in Grand Rapids, MI has some all yellow signals with black backplates that I like. (In my experience, backplates are
very rare in Michigan.)
Lansing has quite a few signals with black faces and visors but yellow backs, similar to Delaware. What's horrible is that you can see just a little bit of yellow from the front. Ugh.
Quote from: Hellfighter on October 11, 2009, 11:19:35 AM
In Michigan, all new Traffic Signals are using Yellow Backplate with the LED's. The only place that's diffrent is up in Traverse City, where all new LED Signals are using Black Backplates.
Backplates? When did we start getting backplates?
Quote from: getemngo on October 11, 2009, 02:32:16 PM
Hmmm. I like green, just because I never get to see it and it looks kind of "trafficky" (like guide signs). Otherwise, all yellow is fine with me...it stands out enough. Burton Street in Grand Rapids, MI has some all yellow signals with black backplates that I like. (In my experience, backplates are very rare in Michigan.)
Lansing has quite a few signals with black faces and visors but yellow backs, similar to Delaware. What's horrible is that you can see just a little bit of yellow from the front. Ugh.
Quote from: Hellfighter on October 11, 2009, 11:19:35 AM
In Michigan, all new Traffic Signals are using Yellow Backplate with the LED's. The only place that's diffrent is up in Traverse City, where all new LED Signals are using Black Backplates.
Backplates? When did we start getting backplates?
Well there are many places in Michigan where backplates are used, at least that I've seen in pics. Its Delaware where backplates are very rare.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 11, 2009, 02:42:08 PM
Well there are many places in Michigan where backplates are used, at least that I've seen in pics. Its Delaware whre backplates are very rare.
Maybe it has to do with where I live and where I travel. Most of my experience is with Grand Rapids, Lansing, and the Upper Peninsula. Yes I
have seen backplates occasionally in Michigan, but never on a brand new signal. Can you give me some examples of these yellow backplates, Hellfighter or someone else?
Quote from: getemngo on October 11, 2009, 04:45:02 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 11, 2009, 02:42:08 PM
Well there are many places in Michigan where backplates are used, at least that I've seen in pics. Its Delaware whre backplates are very rare.
Maybe it has to do with where I live and where I travel. Most of my experience is with Grand Rapids, Lansing, and the Upper Peninsula. Yes I have seen backplates occasionally in Michigan, but never on a brand new signal. Can you give me some examples of these yellow backplates, Hellfighter or someone else?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_rsZ3PQM7ufM%2FSgSAiZom8gI%2FAAAAAAAABPc%2FkoAUel95iyo%2Fs400%2Fyellow%2Bbackplates.jpg&hash=6b4cec38721407338b503cf08bc185b348b8cebf)
Okay, to clear up some confusion, I meant the signal housings and not backplates.
Here's an example of the yellow LED housing...
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.436238,-83.512487&spn=0.005036,0.027874&z=16&layer=c&cbll=42.436235,-83.512497&panoid=-DbTXB2D5eFRuUR7C-P3Ug&cbp=11,352.72,,0,-4.21 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.436238,-83.512487&spn=0.005036,0.027874&z=16&layer=c&cbll=42.436235,-83.512497&panoid=-DbTXB2D5eFRuUR7C-P3Ug&cbp=11,352.72,,0,-4.21)
...and here's an example of the black housing...
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=44.715194,-85.595233&spn=0.004849,0.027874&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.715186,-85.595227&panoid=_08AEIE6i4m1D5dDVJaJMw&cbp=11,279.64,,0,-14.12 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=44.715194,-85.595233&spn=0.004849,0.027874&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.715186,-85.595227&panoid=_08AEIE6i4m1D5dDVJaJMw&cbp=11,279.64,,0,-14.12)
St. Louis City used to have a few signals with blue housing.
Nevada has used either dark green or black signal housings with similarly-colored backplates as long as I can remember. Older signals tend to be dark green with newer installations using black or very dark green. I can only recall seeing one set of signal housings painted yellow when I was less than 10 years old--I'm 26 now. That particular case (an older installation at Maryland Pkwy and Katie Ave in Las Vegas, near the Boulevard Mall) had only two signal heads per direction with no left turn signals, and the entire signal pole and mast arm was also painted yellow--it's long since been replaced with a standard installation.
I am not a fan of yellow signal housings. Having grown up in a state where they aren't used, they just don't look right to me. However, the do look okay in pictures of older signals, especially the old four-way heads you see in the east. One combination I've seen in pictures is yellow housing with black backplates, which doesn't look too bad. Another one, which is a very good idea when a jurisdiction uses yellow signal housings, is to paint the inside of the signal visors black--which is apparently an MUTCD standard for all housings.
Going back to the question posed by the OP:
I've read about some studies regarding target value of signal heads (note that I haven't read the actual studies and can't point to them offhand). The research seems to indicate that the light coming from the signal indications is more easily perceived from darker colored housings. Against a sunny daytime sky, overhead signal faces painted yellow are not as easily seen from a distance. Such research may have prompted San Angelo to repaint the signals, possibly in conjunction with requests/complaints from citizens or law enforcement.
For the driver, the target value of the signal head further increases when backplates are used. Based on such data, I believe current practitioners recommend dark housings and backplates for new signal installations. The MUTCD recommends in a guidance statement that backplates be used when viewed against a bright sky (which is probably why they are used at nearly every signal in Nevada). The new MUTCD is proposed to allow a yellow retroreflective strip around the edges of the backplate where needed to further enhance the target value of the signal head.
Yellow housing with black backplate = my personal preference. However, I see next to none of that up here in WNY.
In Quebec, it depends from the areas, some use a yellow housing while others use a black housing. I spotted a video of a Quebec traffic light in Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU0L8gBHzas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU0L8gBHzas)
I spoke too soon...
Yellow Backplates and black signal housings
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.328763,-83.044214&spn=0.000656,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=42.328845,-83.044513&panoid=sEw3bFL-Y5d7vsspSky4XQ&cbp=11,346.88,,0,-5.18 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.328763,-83.044214&spn=0.000656,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=42.328845,-83.044513&panoid=sEw3bFL-Y5d7vsspSky4XQ&cbp=11,346.88,,0,-5.18)
Yellow housings and black blackplates
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.330919,-83.039708&spn=0.000656,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=42.330918,-83.039707&panoid=zyvQcFsc18WiMjCIZ315uA&cbp=11,317.89,,0,-13.01 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.330919,-83.039708&spn=0.000656,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=42.330918,-83.039707&panoid=zyvQcFsc18WiMjCIZ315uA&cbp=11,317.89,,0,-13.01)
Yellow housings and blackplates
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.328373,-83.044281&spn=0.000656,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=42.328182,-83.045359&panoid=o0CHT-KmRriDBth1yRcIjw&cbp=11,72.78,,0,-23.96 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.328373,-83.044281&spn=0.000656,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=42.328182,-83.045359&panoid=o0CHT-KmRriDBth1yRcIjw&cbp=11,72.78,,0,-23.96)
Black housings and blackplates
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.330671,-83.039472&spn=0.000656,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=42.330671,-83.039472&panoid=yJkCwBzoyOlZRsXa1BckAg&cbp=11,86.45,,0,-7.54 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.330671,-83.039472&spn=0.000656,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=42.330671,-83.039472&panoid=yJkCwBzoyOlZRsXa1BckAg&cbp=11,86.45,,0,-7.54)
Jut to be clear, the housings are the backs of the signals, not the whole thing. The face of it is known as the doors, and the visors are of course, visors. So, you could just say the color and the word "signal" not "housing".
Yellow backplates used to be a Canadian only thing not too long ago. Now the United States have followed with them by putting them on where they could be needed. I don't think I have ever seen black backplates in Canada.
Another thing about what color signals are, is it depends on what brand of signal and what color of signal. One color might look good on one brand, but not on another, or vise versa.
Here's (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/97jJf5kQAgsfVJFoCGn57A?feat=directlink) one stop light in Brownwood that has both yellow and black on it...
BigMatt
Quote from: Hellfighter on October 12, 2009, 05:00:43 PM
Yellow Backplates and black signal housings
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.328763,-83.044214&spn=0.000656,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=42.328845,-83.044513&panoid=sEw3bFL-Y5d7vsspSky4XQ&cbp=11,346.88,,0,-5.18 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.328763,-83.044214&spn=0.000656,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=42.328845,-83.044513&panoid=sEw3bFL-Y5d7vsspSky4XQ&cbp=11,346.88,,0,-5.18)
What you have linked to in this street view appears to have black backplates with a yellow reflective strip around the edges. (I fairly certain there's been some official experimentation with this that was evaluated by FHWA before being put as an option in the next MUTCD--I don't think it's too common at this point.) If you click ahead twice and look at the back of the signal, you can see the backplate is actually all plack. The signal housing is yellow on the back side, although the doors and visors on the front appear to be black...
Quote from: BigMatt on October 12, 2009, 07:04:53 PM
Here's (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/97jJf5kQAgsfVJFoCGn57A?feat=directlink) one stop light in Brownwood that has both yellow and black on it...
BigMatt
Looks like that one has yellow housings and visors with black backplates. That look isn't all bad, I guess...
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 11, 2009, 04:50:53 PM
Quote from: getemngo on October 11, 2009, 04:45:02 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 11, 2009, 02:42:08 PM
Well there are many places in Michigan where backplates are used, at least that I've seen in pics. Its Delaware whre backplates are very rare.
Maybe it has to do with where I live and where I travel. Most of my experience is with Grand Rapids, Lansing, and the Upper Peninsula. Yes I have seen backplates occasionally in Michigan, but never on a brand new signal. Can you give me some examples of these yellow backplates, Hellfighter or someone else?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_rsZ3PQM7ufM%2FSgSAiZom8gI%2FAAAAAAAABPc%2FkoAUel95iyo%2Fs400%2Fyellow%2Bbackplates.jpg&hash=6b4cec38721407338b503cf08bc185b348b8cebf)
That looks like a Kentucky signal installation. Kentucky is the only state I know of that has signals that have the red and green housings with partial covers on them (if that is what you call them) and yellow housing with full covers on them.
Alabama has used yellow housings for as long as I can remember, but Alabama has started to use black signal housings and some black/yellow signal housings. The backplates are black here. Huntsville used to use very wide backplates:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=34.726176,-86.656149&spn=0,359.99761&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=34.726174,-86.656189&panoid=3bxH0j2lzGRRyKaXfcvasw&cbp=12,90.86,,0,-13.69 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=34.726176,-86.656149&spn=0,359.99761&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=34.726174,-86.656189&panoid=3bxH0j2lzGRRyKaXfcvasw&cbp=12,90.86,,0,-13.69)
Quote from: codyg1985 on October 14, 2009, 08:30:58 AM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 11, 2009, 04:50:53 PM
Quote from: getemngo on October 11, 2009, 04:45:02 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 11, 2009, 02:42:08 PM
Well there are many places in Michigan where backplates are used, at least that I've seen in pics. Its Delaware whre backplates are very rare.
Maybe it has to do with where I live and where I travel. Most of my experience is with Grand Rapids, Lansing, and the Upper Peninsula. Yes I have seen backplates occasionally in Michigan, but never on a brand new signal. Can you give me some examples of these yellow backplates, Hellfighter or someone else?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_rsZ3PQM7ufM%2FSgSAiZom8gI%2FAAAAAAAABPc%2FkoAUel95iyo%2Fs400%2Fyellow%2Bbackplates.jpg&hash=6b4cec38721407338b503cf08bc185b348b8cebf)
That looks like a Kentucky signal installation. Kentucky is the only state I know of that has signals that have the red and green housings with partial covers on them (if that is what you call them) and yellow housing with full covers on them.
I would love to see a full-sized version of that image to be able to see the route markers in the background to know if it's a Kentucky installation.
I posed the question about the "hoods" on the lights to the folks in Frankfort and here's the answer I got:
There is no documentation that I am aware of that explains why the original decision was made to use this design. The design is decades old, and the justification behind its use has been lost over time.
In recent years, the same question has been pondered by our staff. Possible reasons behind the design include:
〈 It is more important to keep yellow hidden from traffic on opposing approaches so drivers do not attempt to "jump" the green light on their approach.
〈 Yellow indication was more likely to suffer from "phantom effect" where light trespass from the sun makes indication appear to be lighted when it is not. As a result, the more compete visor was used.
〈 When we did not provide signal indications for pedestrians, there was a need for pedestrians to see the red or green indication to determine if they could cross the street. As a result, the visors were modified on those heads to make them more visible.
I think the first bullet is the most common reason cited by our engineers for continuing the use of the different visor on the yellow indication.
Finally, found the photo I was looking for...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2508%2F4064698981_25d09664ed_b.jpg&hash=8e4af20b265a81e9b5a9496bf6b789540b793c5b)
Who says it has to be one or the other? :) I've grown rather fond of Cincinnati's spec for black housings and visors, but yellow doors. It can be pretty sharp, especially on these new Eagle Durasigs. From the back they disappear, as they should, but the yellow on the front makes them pop a bit, especially if a lamp is out.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fjjakucyk%2Fsignals3%2FDSC_4285.jpg&hash=aac0f94f1be99bdb3b0b8417b506a37df73f2053)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fjjakucyk%2Fsignals3%2FDSC_4287.jpg&hash=34dbd6f04d379337bf5df0ab764dbd81ac2d19dd)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fjjakucyk%2Fsignals3%2FDSC_4289.jpg&hash=6a794f5fb961ab6b8f956d800b16b5d7e4766960)
For years, the city of Akron, OH used nothing but dark green signals (which I thought looked aesthetically pleasing because they meshed nicely with the surrounding greenery in the nearby trees).
They briefly started to replace some of the lights with all black signals until around 2000, when it seemed to be a mass exodus towards all-yellow signals. Seemed like it only was 3-4 years before all the traffic lights in Akron were yellow. :(
Muskogee, OK has brown signals
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3452%2F3219999181_a251c1135d.jpg&hash=04ed9a2326b9d74cf3dd57efd225f28ae8b0e395)
After Hurricane Wilma destroyed hundreds of the 1300+ traffic-signalled intersections in Broward County, Florida (and a similar number in Palm Beach County) in October 2005 we have had occasionally some odd mixtures of traffic lights. I have seen black-backed red and yellow lights, attached at the bottom with a yellow-backed green.
I prefer yellow. In the nearby city of Port Jervis, NY, there is an intersection with blue signals.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 11, 2009, 02:18:46 PM
The signals in the Boston area have all gray signals as well.
The only agency in the Boston area that uses gray signals is the Commonwealth's Department of Conservation and Recreation (formerly the Metropolitan District Commission). Otherwise, there's a mixture of black and yellow ones.
I'm used to yellow, so I think black ones stand out. I want to say I've seen a red one at a fire station around here too.
In Colorado it depends on your CDOT district. In SE Colorado all signals are black, while up north they are yellow with black backplates.
I always associate yellow backplates with Canada, especially when used with 12-8-8 lights.
The only surviving 12-8-8's in the wild around here that I know of are in Hopewell, and they're all yellow, with no back plate. The only black 12-8-8 I've ever seen is owned by my brother, and he painted it that way.
Here in Suffolk County, for the most part green/black is used for NY state installations (and a few villages) and yellow is county/town installations. Both quite nice (although I probably favor the yellow).
Almost all signals in Oregon are all-black (or some other very dark shade) with backplates, excepting a few older installs mostly in Portland, which lack backplates (there's even a handful of yellow ones). Because of that latter situation, whenever I've been in Maryland or Tennessee or some other places and the standard is yellow with no backplate, even new signal installations look like they're old and about to fall apart.
Maryland's starting to shift over to yellow backs and black fronts. Baltimore City, however tends to be a bit random. So you might see a yellow signal, a yellow signal with black fronts and some completely different colored signal in a couple of blocks' radius.
New Jersey was all green back in the 70s except for Newark, Jersey City, and some urban communities in North Jersey. Then in the 80s they went all yellow and some for a long time had both during the transitional period.
Now I see in Google street view that Rahway, NJ is going black and Newark a city that always used horizontal mounted heads are starting to go verticle on some signals.
Also, New Jersey and New York seem to use the 8 inch lenses the most while most use the 12 inch lenses. Some places in New Jersey use the 12 inch and 8 inch at the same intersection where a divided highway intersects a small side road.
NJDOT said to me once back in the snail mail days that it was the MUTCD that made them go yellow. However, Florida went black at the same time NJ went yellow.
To me all colors are cool and it makes great contrast. I find Illinois to be most cool cause statewide they use Black and yellow with back plates, but in Chicago they are all green with NO backplates. Sort of like New York that has green span wires all over except NYC that uses the old double guy mast arms with yellow heads. Staten Island has traffic light mast arms attached to the wooden telephone poles, but old style Jersey double guys and not like the other city signals. Fifth Avenue for some reason is grey with large brackets instead of the usual mast arms, but are now being changed to look like the rest of the city, but still grey.
Arkansas seems to be transitioning to all black. Some older signals are still yellow, but are being replaced with black.
Arkadelphia, AR has a 4Way signal that was yellow, but was repainted.
The Washtenaw County Road Commission in Michigan has yellow signals with black back plates on all posts, but with the overhead span wires it is a yellow signal with no back plate. This is typical of MDOT. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg18.imageshack.us%2Fimg18%2F7672%2F001dqe.jpg&hash=aec156f5c77c67eabe0fd6610c3f0f46d09589e8) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/001dqe.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg543.imageshack.us%2Fimg543%2F3770%2F081uy.jpg&hash=111c9b594aa88b213fb67bdefdbeaa0095d2a2e6) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/081uy.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
In California, new traffic signals are black and older ones are greenish.
http://www.vaconsultinginc.com/services/project.php?id=TRA-Amar
http://www.rkagroup.com/images/Image/San%20Jose%20HillsF.JPG
http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/raymondyue/4212295489/
How about silver? Roselle, NJ and Florham Park, NJ both had signal heads painted silver. I do not know if that is the case now, as even Rahway, NJ had some that were changed to black that were silver for decades.
I am guessing now that the Garden State is abandoning the yellow signal heads after 30 years, unless Rahway doing their own thing as Plainfield never complied when NJ did the initial change.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 08, 2012, 08:11:08 PM
How about silver? Roselle, NJ and Florham Park, NJ both had signal heads painted silver. I do not know if that is the case now, as even Rahway, NJ had some that were changed to black that were silver for decades.
I am guessing now that the Garden State is abandoning the yellow signal heads after 30 years, unless Rahway doing their own thing as Plainfield never complied when NJ did the initial change.
Florham Park has only dark green that I've seen, and newer yellow. NJDOT is determinedly yellow. Any black signals are on an individual agency's basis.
Quote from: SidS1045 on January 17, 2012, 03:11:49 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on October 11, 2009, 02:18:46 PM
The signals in the Boston area have all gray signals as well.
The only agency in the Boston area that uses gray signals is the Commonwealth's Department of Conservation and Recreation (formerly the Metropolitan District Commission). Otherwise, there's a mixture of black and yellow ones.
Once upon a time, the MDC signals were all dark green. My hometown of Marblehead, MA (way back when) used to had green signals w/black visors & faces. At present, only 2 of those old signals still exist (though the green was repainted yellow back in the late 80s): the pedestrian signal (12-8-8 with its visors missing) along Atlantic Ave. at The Star of the Sea Catholic church and the intersection signal at Atlantic (Route 129) and Clifton Avenues. The latter signal was erected in the early 70s and was the first traffic signal in Marblehead to feature 12-12-12 signal-heads (for the Route 129 traffic).
WisDOT default is a yellow polycarbonate housing with a black back-plate, mounted on an unpainted aluminum pole. Many municipalities will use black in downtown areas or streets upgraded with "community sensitive design" (upgraded street furniture, etc.).
Are New York and Louisiana the only two states that use green?
Quote from: roadman65 on March 01, 2012, 08:23:50 PM
Are New York and Louisiana the only two states that use green?
I thought Washington, D.C. still had/use green?
Quote from: roadman65 on March 01, 2012, 08:23:50 PM
Are New York and Louisiana the only two states that use green?
There are several places in New England that have dark green signals.
Quote from: DaBigE on March 01, 2012, 08:57:10 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 01, 2012, 08:23:50 PM
Are New York and Louisiana the only two states that use green?
I thought Washington, D.C. still had/use green?
Did they ever even use green signals? They were using battleship gray up until recently; now they seem to be using black.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on March 01, 2012, 09:15:38 PM
Did they ever even use green signals? They were using battleship gray up until recently; now they seem to be using black.
My bad...that's what I get for trying to go off of memories from a place I haven't been back to in almost 15 years. For some reason I would have sworn they were green, or a light greenish/patina color.
Washington used to use dark green quite a bit, but it will look black unless you look closely. On any traffic light on a high speed road or freeway on-ramp/off-ramp, there will be a yellow border on the black (much like how Europe has a white border on many of their traffic signals). I've only seen black in California.
Update for Salem & Beverly, Massachusetts: new signals being erected are now all-black (many of which feature retro-styled posts & mast-arms in the downtown areas) and many existing signals (though not all) have also been repainted black.
We were driving up Woodlawn Blvd here in Wichita a couple of days ago, and my son asked me why the sides of some stoplights are yellow. The kid just turned four years old in January, and he's already noticed that different stoplights have different colors. He has also asked recently why some stoplights have three lights and some have five, and also why the turn arrows are below the red light. When he was three, he drew a 'map' of how to get from our house to the grocery store on a blank sheet of paper; it involved about a bazillion turns, which is funny since it's 3/4 mile from our hosue. He can also locate Kansas on a map of the U.S., Wichita on a map of Kansas, and I-35 on an atlas both as the road we take to México and the road we take to Minnesota.
Anyway, he's becoming a little map geek like his daddy, and go figure it was he who first made me notice the colors of Wichita's stoplights.
In downtown Petersburg, the signals have been painted black, but some of the yellow paint still shows through on many of them.
A brand new 20-traffic light system with huge silver mast arms at the intersection of Lyons Road (NW 46 Avenue) and West Sample Road in Coconut Creek, FL has been installed with side-mounted black traffic lights, black back plates and yellow outlines.
Yellow outlines on the back plates are rare in Broward County. I can think of only one such yellow-outlined installation and that is located at the westbound doghouse-style light on Prospect Road and NW 21 Avenue in the "eastern finger" of Tamarac.
Can you post some pictures of that intersection?
I do not own a camera.
Traffic Signals: Yellow and Black!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EvMemu55b0Q/T3DiJoL5u2I/AAAAAAAABwk/VAY2lfKnp30/s816/DSC00568.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DwsEgsoT1cU/T3DiLURg3XI/AAAAAAAABw0/gpubwpJFYKc/s816/DSC00569.JPG)
In Ocean City, NJ; there are some newer signals erected that are black. Most existing signals in that Shore town are yellow.
I'm thinking some of the ancient fixtures in LA specifically the San Fernando valley that are still used from ages ago could potentially have been yellow at one point but never repainted. Some look like they were yellow but they're totally faded now so you can see a tinge. But if you look at old photos of the valley you can see the frames were black so I'm not quite sure what that's all about. Maybe someone can confirm if they were here back then.
There's a couple with yellow reflective frames in La Cañada when you come off Angeles Crest Hwy but its due to the fact there's several lights right there and the one with the yellow frames aren't synced with the other lights i think
Most of Arizona uses black signals with black backplates. The Tucson area uses mostly yellow signals with black backplates.
Quote from: DaBigE on March 01, 2012, 08:57:10 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 01, 2012, 08:23:50 PM
Are New York and Louisiana the only two states that use green?
I thought Washington, D.C. still had/use green?
Have not had green as long as I can remember.
As was mentioned elsewhere, grey is the "standard" color for signals in the District of Columbia, though black can be found (especially newer signal installations).
I'm new to this forum, but this thread reminds me something I said to my grandfather (of blessed memory) when I was about 6. One day I told him that traffic lights were either yellow, green, or black. He was like, huh? Correcting me, he replied that traffic lights are red, yellow, and green. For a moment I was just as puzzled as he was. Once I figured it out, I explained that I meant the "steel" part.
I saw a "red" traffic signal (yes, the "steel" part!) in front of a firehouse near Manassas, VA. There was only one section for each head, with 12" for the main road, 8" toward the station. I never saw them lit, but I assume that on a fire run, the main road suddenly got a red, and the fire trucks got either a green or flashing yellow.
I saw a silver traffic signal once; a four-way in downtown Ellenville, NY, in the early 1970s. It was gone by the '80s.
As a younger adult, I once had a car service driver take us from JFK Airport to Long Island. I told him that you could tell when you crossed into Nassau County (on Northern Blvd. at least) by when the "metal" part of the traffic signal went from yellow to green. He said, in a Russian accent, no live to be hundred years old and notice that. Note that he noticed something about the signals that I did not; in NYC, the signals were powered by underground (conduit?) wire, while in Nassau County it was conventional overhead wires.
Quote from: lepidopteran on February 28, 2013, 12:44:07 AMI saw a "red" traffic signal (yes, the "steel" part!) in front of a firehouse near Manassas, VA. There was only one section for each head, with 12" for the main road, 8" toward the station. I never saw them lit, but I assume that on a fire run, the main road suddenly got a red, and the fire trucks got either a green or flashing yellow.
Red signal heads at fire or rescue squad stations in Virginia were once somewhat common. The one you speak of near Manassas might have been in the Yorkshire area of Prince William County on Va. 28 (Centreville Road) at Patton Lane (I remember those well), but have been replaced by more conventional-looking signal heads according to GSV here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=8277++patton+lane,+manassas+va&hl=en&ll=38.794734,-77.447219&spn=0.009483,0.012982&sll=38.804821,-77.236966&sspn=2.427021,3.323364&hnear=8277+Patton+Ln,+Manassas,+Prince+William,+Virginia+20111&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=38.795026,-77.447145&panoid=jUBWa34aUvfgzJE7pFrq2w&cbp=12,20.08,,0,11.9).
Stoneham, MA recently re-painted most of their yellow signals black. Which IMO has greatly reduced the long-distance visibilty of the signals as well. But as long as we have people who place asthetics above safety, we'll see many more of these poorly thought-out decisions.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 28, 2013, 11:22:33 AM
Red signal heads at fire or rescue squad stations in Virginia were once somewhat common. The one you speak of near Manassas might have been in the Yorkshire area of Prince William County on Va. 28 (Centreville Road) at Patton Lane (I remember those well), but have been replaced by more conventional-looking signal heads according to GSV here (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=8277++patton+lane,+manassas+va&hl=en&ll=38.794734,-77.447219&spn=0.009483,0.012982&sll=38.804821,-77.236966&sspn=2.427021,3.323364&hnear=8277+Patton+Ln,+Manassas,+Prince+William,+Virginia+20111&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=38.795026,-77.447145&panoid=jUBWa34aUvfgzJE7pFrq2w&cbp=12,20.08,,0,11.9).
Yes, that is exactly where I was talking about. However, the station with the single-section lights was right there on VA-28. It was decommissioned a while ago, and might actually have been demolished, as I cannot seem to locate it on Google Earth. The new firehouse is on Patton Lane, which has the newer emergency signal at its intersection with VA-28.
Quote from: roadman on February 28, 2013, 01:26:02 PM
Stoneham, MA recently re-painted most of their yellow signals black. Which IMO has greatly reduced the long-distance visibilty of the signals as well. But as long as we have people who place asthetics above safety, we'll see many more of these poorly thought-out decisions.
How does the color of the housing impact the safety of a traffic signal? If anything, the black adds more contrast to the signal lights. Furthermore, changing to LEDs allows traffic signals to be seen much further away than before, which IMO would negate any change caused by a different color of paint.
New York City's traffic signals were originally painted dark olive green. This particular color was in use for a fairly long period of time. Although, in January of 1962, traffic commissioner (then) Henry Barnes officially declared to repaint all of the city's traffic signals (from dark olive green to yellow). The process took several years to complete.
Personally, I prefer yellow, since I see that color quite often, and it really captures my attention (on a traffic signal).
Aside from yellow, a couple of other colors are in use in the city, such as brown, black, and dark olive green (still in use). Dark olive green, in my opinion, makes a traffic signal appear aesthetically pleasing (if it's a Marbelite).
Quote from: kphoger on March 19, 2012, 12:28:43 PM
We were driving up Woodlawn Blvd here in Wichita a couple of days ago, and my son asked me why the sides of some stoplights are yellow. The kid just turned four years old in January, and he's already noticed that different stoplights have different colors. He has also asked recently why some stoplights have three lights and some have five, and also why the turn arrows are below the red light. When he was three, he drew a 'map' of how to get from our house to the grocery store on a blank sheet of paper; it involved about a bazillion turns, which is funny since it's 3/4 mile from our hosue. He can also locate Kansas on a map of the U.S., Wichita on a map of Kansas, and I-35 on an atlas both as the road we take to México and the road we take to Minnesota.
Anyway, he's becoming a little map geek like his daddy, and go figure it was he who first made me notice the colors of Wichita's stoplights.
Start em young KP. Always nice to see a bright kid who knows his directions and how to read a map.
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 17, 2013, 12:45:51 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 19, 2012, 12:28:43 PM
We were driving up Woodlawn Blvd here in Wichita a couple of days ago, and my son asked me why the sides of some stoplights are yellow. The kid just turned four years old in January, and he's already noticed that different stoplights have different colors. He has also asked recently why some stoplights have three lights and some have five, and also why the turn arrows are below the red light. When he was three, he drew a 'map' of how to get from our house to the grocery store on a blank sheet of paper; it involved about a bazillion turns, which is funny since it's 3/4 mile from our hosue. He can also locate Kansas on a map of the U.S., Wichita on a map of Kansas, and I-35 on an atlas both as the road we take to México and the road we take to Minnesota.
Anyway, he's becoming a little map geek like his daddy, and go figure it was he who first made me notice the colors of Wichita's stoplights.
Start em young KP. Always nice to see a bright kid who knows his directions and how to read a map.
Ditto here. It reminds me of someone I knew, when he was young and his parents and fellow classmates were amazed at his knowledge of roads.
Didn't yellow really start due to some since deleted advisory in the MUTCD? I think the idea is with yellow heads it makes the entire installation more visable, while black provides more contrast. For many years in Minnesota the housing was yellow, but the doors, visors and backplate were black. The vertical post was also painted yellow (the tops were generally silver and the base was green, which I find butt-ugly, except for District 1 where everything was black).
Also, you almost never see anything other than Eagle and their successor Mark IV and 3M. (There's still a few c1950 Eaglelux "long fins" in Minneapolis mixed in with the sea of cheap plastic).
The few McCains and Econolites are almost notable.
Mn/DOT buys all their poles from a single supplier in the western exurbs, and they were late in being able to galvanize the posts. Finally they started a few years ago, and now the poles are bare galvanized and the heads are black.
I'm not a fan of yellow, but I do own an all yellow Mark IV that came from the southeast with the powdercoating still bright. It stands out from all the other dull yellow and dark green stuff I have.
Quote from: DaBigE on March 01, 2013, 09:23:32 AM
How does the color of the housing impact the safety of a traffic signal? If anything, the black adds more contrast to the signal lights. Furthermore, changing to LEDs allows traffic signals to be seen much further away than before, which IMO would negate any change caused by a different color of paint.
Signal heads tend to fade into the background more readily when they're a darker color, and at night they disappear completely.
Living in Stoneham, I noticed the local DPW doing the painting last year, and wondered what dunderhead ordered it. I don't recall it coming up in any town meeting, and haven't heard or seen anything about it in the MUTCD Massachusetts supplement.
Darker colors do fade into background or disappear from view at night. However, the darker color (especially with black backplates) gives the signal a greater target value in very bright environments.
With most municipalities converting to LED signal units, the disappearance at nighttime is less of an issue since the signal indications tend to be much brighter against busy backgrounds.
SCDOT uses both colors. Black backplates with yellow retroreflective borders, mainly in urban areas like Aiken and Columbia.
They use yellow still in smaller communities like Denmark.
In fact, there are some black signals with yellow borders on the FHWA webpage (http://rspcb.safety.fhwa.dot.gov/noteworthy/html/intersection2.aspx).
Are traffic signals in D.C. still gray?
Quote from: mjb2002 on March 18, 2013, 08:52:38 PM
SCDOT uses both colors. Black backplates with yellow retroreflective borders, mainly in urban areas like Aiken and Columbia.
In fact, there are some black signals with yellow borders on the FHWA webpage (http://rspcb.safety.fhwa.dot.gov/noteworthy/html/intersection2.aspx).
The yellow reflective border was introduced as an option in the 2009 MUTCD as one method to enhance conspicuousness of signal heads. It's a pretty decent compromise between black and yellow to address the visibility concerns of each.
Quote from: M3019C LPS20 on March 18, 2013, 09:10:20 PM
Are traffic signals in D.C. still gray?
From what I've seen, no. All new signals are black in color.
Charlotte has signals with both colors on them.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcharmeck.org%2Fcity%2Fcharlotte%2FTransportation%2Fsigns_signal_lights%2FPublishingImages%2FTraffic%2520Signal%2520Work.jpg&hash=39a4e72309bc6615955fe24e37bfc120299642ba)
PennDOT recently redid the signals at the McKees Rocks Bridge / Ohio River Blvd (PA-65) intersection.
They're still yellow signals with a black background... but these have a yellow border around them, which I have decided that I really like:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmysite.verizon.net%2Fvze3kr2y%2Fsitebuildercontent%2Fsitebuilderpictures%2FMRBr_ORB_From_ORB.jpg&hash=a2665457e630226d44cb2b5c2c6808136ed59165)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmysite.verizon.net%2Fvze3kr2y%2Fsitebuildercontent%2Fsitebuilderpictures%2FMRBr_ORB-From_BHB.jpg&hash=8f5ec0cd93806182c4bbae0dede0842bd78809c2)
Interesting with a re-done signal they still have circular red with "left turn signal" signs, even though those are not supposed to be used...
But yes, a nice look for the signal heads with that reflective yellow border.
Quote from: roadfro on March 24, 2013, 02:23:33 PM
Interesting with a re-done signal they still have circular red with "left turn signal" signs, even though those are not supposed to be used...
But yes, a nice look for the signal heads with that reflective yellow border.
Sorry for the bump couldn't help but reply
True but penndot does not follow the mutcd for some odd reason even though they are suppose too.
Black mostly. Chicago has it's traditional dark green. But I've noticed that some newer lights at busy/rural intersections have begun to adopt yellow reflective backgrounds
Huntsville uses yellow, yellow with black doors and visors, black, and black with yellow doors and visors.
There's also brown mixed in from the Singers. I like yellow the best with black coming in at a close second.
I'm partial to Delaware's black visors and front of the housing, yellow back of the housing, with the occaisional black back plates strewn about.
Virginia has mostly yellow signals with black rounded-rectangle backgrounds for traffic signals. I think I have seen some black ones, but they are mostly in old towns/modern mixed-use or shopping developments.
Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on July 18, 2014, 01:51:41 PM
Virginia has mostly yellow signals with black rounded-rectangle backgrounds for traffic signals. I think I have seen some black ones, but they are mostly in old towns/modern mixed-use or shopping developments.
The Hampton Roads Area from what I have seen on GSV seems to be moving toward black.
Quote from: Alex4897 on July 18, 2014, 01:13:39 AM
I'm partial to Delaware's black visors and front of the housing, yellow back of the housing, with the occaisional black back plates strewn about.
Many other states have Delaware type of heads like Kansas and Illinois and I believe Maryland is starting to use them more.
Quote from: Takumi on March 19, 2013, 07:26:21 PM
Charlotte has signals with both colors on them.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcharmeck.org%2Fcity%2Fcharlotte%2FTransportation%2Fsigns_signal_lights%2FPublishingImages%2FTraffic%2520Signal%2520Work.jpg&hash=39a4e72309bc6615955fe24e37bfc120299642ba)
That is interesting, as it's kind of like the best of both worlds. But if I had to pick a single color, I would go with black.
Charlotte only does the visors in black as DE, IL, KS, and MD do the whole entire front black while leaving the behind side yellow.
Also I miss New Jersey's green signal heads very much.
Another thing to note, is I have found that black here in Florida does have the tendency to have its paint wear off down to the bare metal on the visors. I do not know if that is from our brutal sun, or if somebody decided to use a cheaper paint then the rest of the states who have been using these for many decades before FDOT made FL change in the mid 80's.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 19, 2014, 04:58:36 PM
Another thing to note, is I have found that black here in Florida does have the tendency to have its paint wear off down to the bare metal on the visors. I do not know if that is from our brutal sun, or if somebody decided to use a cheaper paint then the rest of the states who have been using these for many decades before FDOT made FL change in the mid 80's.
I've seen that happen up here in Huntsville, AL. It's because the brand that Florida uses, which is Peek, uses very cheap paint on their aluminum signals.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 18, 2014, 02:08:00 PM
Quote from: Alex4897 on July 18, 2014, 01:13:39 AM
I'm partial to Delaware's black visors and front of the housing, yellow back of the housing, with the occaisional black back plates strewn about.
Many other states have Delaware type of heads like Kansas and Illinois and I believe Maryland is starting to use them more.
I believe they are. It seems they've recently redone most of their signals on the Delmarva Peninsula and they have similarities to DE's style of signal.
Quote from: Alex4897 on July 20, 2014, 12:01:02 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 18, 2014, 02:08:00 PM
Quote from: Alex4897 on July 18, 2014, 01:13:39 AM
I'm partial to Delaware's black visors and front of the housing, yellow back of the housing, with the occaisional black back plates strewn about.
Many other states have Delaware type of heads like Kansas and Illinois and I believe Maryland is starting to use them more.
I believe they are. It seems they've recently redone most of their signals on the Delmarva Peninsula and they have similarities to DE's style of signal.
Most of the central part of Maryland uses black visors and yellow backs. They've been replacing signals to this standard since about mid-2000.
I also noticed that MD is also switching to mast arms as well. I have been seeing more arms and less span wires since the 1990's as well.
Quote from: kj3400 on July 20, 2014, 12:05:09 AM
Quote from: Alex4897 on July 20, 2014, 12:01:02 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 18, 2014, 02:08:00 PM
Quote from: Alex4897 on July 18, 2014, 01:13:39 AM
I'm partial to Delaware's black visors and front of the housing, yellow back of the housing, with the occaisional black back plates strewn about.
Many other states have Delaware type of heads like Kansas and Illinois and I believe Maryland is starting to use them more.
I believe they are. It seems they've recently redone most of their signals on the Delmarva Peninsula and they have similarities to DE's style of signal.
Most of the central part of Maryland uses black visors and yellow backs. They've been replacing signals to this standard since about mid-2000.
Wait-- Do you mean the middle of the year 2000 or the mid 2000s (in my standard, 2004-2006)? Just wondering.
Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on July 20, 2014, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: kj3400 on July 20, 2014, 12:05:09 AM
Quote from: Alex4897 on July 20, 2014, 12:01:02 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 18, 2014, 02:08:00 PM
Quote from: Alex4897 on July 18, 2014, 01:13:39 AM
I'm partial to Delaware's black visors and front of the housing, yellow back of the housing, with the occaisional black back plates strewn about.
Many other states have Delaware type of heads like Kansas and Illinois and I believe Maryland is starting to use them more.
I believe they are. It seems they've recently redone most of their signals on the Delmarva Peninsula and they have similarities to DE's style of signal.
Most of the central part of Maryland uses black visors and yellow backs. They've been replacing signals to this standard since about mid-2000.
Wait-- Do you mean the middle of the year 2000 or the mid 2000s (in my standard, 2004-2006)? Just wondering.
The latter. Then again, it might have been earlier, I don't know.
Baltimore City tends to use all yellow lights, the really old ones are faded yellow and the new ones the city puts in are all yellow. I have seen a few down by the northern portals for the Harbor Tunnel (when 95 goes over 895) that are the traditional yellow and black common to Maryland but I'm guessing that those were put in by the MdTA.
I can confirm that most newer signals in Maryland have the black front and yellow back, and also that new installations are mast-arms.
I'm really glad: I always thought yellow signals were hard to see from far away. For example, see these older signals in Bethesda:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.988148,-77.094961,3a,39.3y,342.95h,90.02t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4FYadxI3zg-uDB6iYPkh8g!2e0
I guess that could just be because the signals are so small, but the yellow does kind of limit the contrast.
I'm actually of the opinion that signals should have a black background, with a white border, like they have in the UK (except with another black border around the white border).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trafficsignsandmeanings.co.uk%2Fimages%2F9540.jpg&hash=bca740a22255244dc52672f48c09a43da2893fe4)
Why? Because regulatory signs are always white with a black border, and I've always thought of signals as obligatory signs that change color every once in a while. It just sits well for me if traffic signals are designed consistently like a sign.
Quote from: wisvishr0 on July 21, 2014, 01:54:13 PM
I'm actually of the opinion that signals should have a black background, with a white border, like they have in the UK (except with another black border around the white border).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trafficsignsandmeanings.co.uk%2Fimages%2F9540.jpg&hash=bca740a22255244dc52672f48c09a43da2893fe4)
Why? Because regulatory signs are always white with a black border, and I've always thought of signals as obligatory signs that change color every once in a while. It just sits well for me if traffic signals are designed consistently like a sign.
I would agree with this, but the next reply will be someone claiming that the white border doesn't increase the visibility. I am of the position that if you miss the huge bulb but somehow see the yellow border, you probably shouldn't be driving. White borders are definitely a favorite of mine.
Or we could always use massive sign-blank backgrounds like what Huntsville's used in the past... (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=34.725529,-86.574029&spn=0.000002,0.001032&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=34.725484,-86.574028&panoid=JcWomrc7v-2sZ6ryZqCSXw&cbp=12,66.54,,2,-6.73)
Quote from: wisvishr0 on July 21, 2014, 01:54:13 PM
I can confirm that most newer signals in Maryland have the black front and yellow back, and also that new installations are mast-arms.
I'm really glad: I always thought yellow signals were hard to see from far away. For example, see these older signals in Bethesda:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.988148,-77.094961,3a,39.3y,342.95h,90.02t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4FYadxI3zg-uDB6iYPkh8g!2e0
I guess that could just be because the signals are so small, but the yellow does kind of limit the contrast.
I'm actually of the opinion that signals should have a black background, with a white border, like they have in the UK (except with another black border around the white border).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trafficsignsandmeanings.co.uk%2Fimages%2F9540.jpg&hash=bca740a22255244dc52672f48c09a43da2893fe4)
Why? Because regulatory signs are always white with a black border, and I've always thought of signals as obligatory signs that change color every once in a while. It just sits well for me if traffic signals are designed consistently like a sign.
I would agree that a white border techinically fits better, but yellow and black have the best contrast.
New Hope, PA
(https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6054/6270796327_2c88d00297_z.jpg)
(https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6103/6271324552_77f3814f3d_z.jpg)
There are similar signals down in Bristol as well.
Quote from: DaBigE on July 23, 2014, 08:59:25 AM
I would agree that a white border techinically fits better, but yellow and black have the best contrast.
That's not to say black and white don't have extreme contrast . . . they are considered to be exact opposites. I think yellow is more often associated with caution thus the use of a yellow border.
I think that, especially in early morning/late night crashes, where visibility is key, a white border would have just as good retroreflectivity abilities as a yellow border. Imagine a white border in this case:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsafety.fhwa.dot.gov%2Fintersection%2Fresources%2Fcasestudies%2Ffhwasa09011%2Fimages%2Ff3.jpg&hash=6ee25fd5e739bd7707064d27d3d9836347fd27eb)
The study that proved the border around a signal increased visibility was mainly due to the reflective nature of the border, not necessarily the color of the border. If you look at the study (here (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/resources/casestudies/fhwasa09011/)), you can see the biggest drop in crashes was in the early morning/late night hours, where a reflectivity is more important than color.
At this point, as you suggested DaBigE, aesthetics become the key component.
I like Ohio's newer signals -- the black signals look snazzy and are easy to see with the new backplates with the yellow reflective strip.
What is going on with Texas lately? I noticed that in Houston and Galveston the signal heads are mostly black. However in the DFW Metroplex and in many rural areas along IH 30 they are yellow as well as South Texas and San Antonio (or at least back in 97 when I did that particular city).
Is that a statewide thing or is it just regional where only the Greater Houston area is doing themselves?
Quote from: jake on July 23, 2014, 02:19:51 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on July 23, 2014, 08:59:25 AM
I would agree that a white border techinically fits better, but yellow and black have the best contrast.
That's not to say black and white don't have extreme contrast . . . they are considered to be exact opposites. I think yellow is more often associated with caution thus the use of a yellow border.
I think that, especially in early morning/late night crashes, where visibility is key, a white border would have just as good retroreflectivity abilities as a yellow border. Imagine a white border in this case:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsafety.fhwa.dot.gov%2Fintersection%2Fresources%2Fcasestudies%2Ffhwasa09011%2Fimages%2Ff3.jpg&hash=6ee25fd5e739bd7707064d27d3d9836347fd27eb)
The study that proved the border around a signal increased visibility was mainly due to the reflective nature of the border, not necessarily the color of the border. If you look at the study (here (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/resources/casestudies/fhwasa09011/)), you can see the biggest drop in crashes was in the early morning/late night hours, where a reflectivity is more important than color.
At this point, as you suggested DaBigE, aesthetics become the key component.
It's not just aesthetics, (in that case, the white looks better, IMO). There have been color studies, and the yellow/black combination has the better contrast value than white/black. (That's why clearance markers are black and yellow). When Wisconsin was considering redesigning their standard license plates, they considered reverting back to black/yellow for that reason (the same as what they had back in the 1970s). However, they kept the white background, but changed the alpha/numerics from red to black.
Some of the newer computer keyboards marketed to older folks have yellow keys with black letters for that reason as well.
Quote from: jake on July 23, 2014, 02:19:51 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on July 23, 2014, 08:59:25 AM
I would agree that a white border techinically fits better, but yellow and black have the best contrast.
That's not to say black and white don't have extreme contrast . . . they are considered to be exact opposites. I think yellow is more often associated with caution thus the use of a yellow border.
I think that, especially in early morning/late night crashes, where visibility is key, a white border would have just as good retroreflectivity abilities as a yellow border. Imagine a white border in this case:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsafety.fhwa.dot.gov%2Fintersection%2Fresources%2Fcasestudies%2Ffhwasa09011%2Fimages%2Ff3.jpg&hash=6ee25fd5e739bd7707064d27d3d9836347fd27eb)
The study that proved the border around a signal increased visibility was mainly due to the reflective nature of the border, not necessarily the color of the border. If you look at the study (here (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/resources/casestudies/fhwasa09011/)), you can see the biggest drop in crashes was in the early morning/late night hours, where a reflectivity is more important than color.
At this point, as you suggested DaBigE, aesthetics become the key component.
I'd rather see a real-life contrast example. Not one where someone drew a orange border on a picture.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 24, 2014, 02:42:14 PM
Quote from: jake on July 23, 2014, 02:19:51 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on July 23, 2014, 08:59:25 AM
I would agree that a white border techinically fits better, but yellow and black have the best contrast.
That's not to say black and white don't have extreme contrast . . . they are considered to be exact opposites. I think yellow is more often associated with caution thus the use of a yellow border.
I think that, especially in early morning/late night crashes, where visibility is key, a white border would have just as good retroreflectivity abilities as a yellow border. Imagine a white border in this case:
The study that proved the border around a signal increased visibility was mainly due to the reflective nature of the border, not necessarily the color of the border. If you look at the study (here (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/resources/casestudies/fhwasa09011/)), you can see the biggest drop in crashes was in the early morning/late night hours, where a reflectivity is more important than color.
At this point, as you suggested DaBigE, aesthetics become the key component.
I'd rather see a real-life contrast example. Not one where someone drew a orange border on a picture.
I'll see if I can snag one tonight near my house. I'll report back when I can.
OK, so I have noticed that three signals in the jurisdiction Manassas Park have entirely black signals (the mast arms too).
Quote from: MillTheRoadgeek on July 24, 2014, 04:25:03 PM
OK, so I have noticed that three signals in the jurisdiction Manassas Park have entirely black signals (the mast arms too).
The VDOT standard is a yellow signal with a black backplate, but independent cities and towns have a lot of different variations...
* Fairfax City -- most new signals since the early 1990s are black, some with black backplates
* Vienna -- Some use of black backplates with yellow borders (the only place in VA I've seen this)
* Roanoke -- exclusively uses black signals
* Manassas City -- black signals mostly near the downtown area
* Culpeper -- Downtown -- black signals with black backplates with a white border
* Newport News, Hampton, Norfolk, Chesapeake, and Virginia Beach have both black signals and yellow signals.
I know of two VDOT-installed signal installations with black signals -- US-50/Lee Jackson Hwy and SR-665/Waples Mill Rd in Fairfax (this is outside of the Fairfax City Limit) and along VA-244/Columbia Pike in downtown Annandale at a fire station.
VDOT also used to install red signals at fire stations.
-Dan
I remember those red signals as you said for fire stations.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 24, 2014, 02:42:14 PM
Quote from: jake on July 23, 2014, 02:19:51 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on July 23, 2014, 08:59:25 AM
I would agree that a white border techinically fits better, but yellow and black have the best contrast.
That's not to say black and white don't have extreme contrast . . . they are considered to be exact opposites. I think yellow is more often associated with caution thus the use of a yellow border.
I think that, especially in early morning/late night crashes, where visibility is key, a white border would have just as good retroreflectivity abilities as a yellow border. Imagine a white border in this case:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsafety.fhwa.dot.gov%2Fintersection%2Fresources%2Fcasestudies%2Ffhwasa09011%2Fimages%2Ff3.jpg&hash=6ee25fd5e739bd7707064d27d3d9836347fd27eb)
The study that proved the border around a signal increased visibility was mainly due to the reflective nature of the border, not necessarily the color of the border. If you look at the study (here (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/resources/casestudies/fhwasa09011/)), you can see the biggest drop in crashes was in the early morning/late night hours, where a reflectivity is more important than color.
At this point, as you suggested DaBigE, aesthetics become the key component.
I'd rather see a real-life contrast example. Not one where someone drew a orange border on a picture.
The best a quick google could find:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsafety.fhwa.dot.gov%2Fintersection%2Fresources%2Fcasestudies%2Ffhwasa09011%2Fimages%2Ff1_art.jpg&hash=bf91b30404ebfec44f6fca6bfdf6c6d4f5b35d2b)
The yellow borders are really the most effective if the intersection is not lit very well. Here in Wisconsin the vast majority of signalized intersections (esp. WisDOT maintained) are decently lit so the necessity of them is less apparent. IMO
^^ It is WisDOT policy to have all signalized intersections lit. You have to have a special exception to find an unlit one in WI.
Keep in mind that in most cases the signal will be lit by a camera flash in a nighttime photo. The lighting from car headlights won't be so dramatic.