How come the road atlases that cover most of North America and are marketed to U.S. customers don't cover Cuba? They include Puerto Rico, which is much further from the U.S. mainland than Cuba is. So why not Cuba?
Puerto Rico is part of the USA. Do said road atlases cover any other Caribbean nations, say ones that Americans have actually been able to legally travel to? You know, like the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, et al.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 20, 2016, 04:26:42 PM
How come the road atlases that cover most of North America and are marketed to U.S. customers don't cover Cuba? They include Puerto Rico, which is much further from the U.S. mainland than Cuba is. So why not Cuba?
Probably because 1 out of every 100,000 buyers of said road atlases are going to be driving within Cuba on a yearly basis?
Quote from: SectorZ on April 20, 2016, 05:00:09 PM
Probably because 1 out of every 100,000 buyers of said road atlases are going to be driving within Cuba on a yearly basis?
And how many of those did not drive at all during their stay? A lot.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 20, 2016, 04:26:42 PM
How come the road atlases that cover most of North America and are marketed to U.S. customers don't cover Cuba? They include Puerto Rico, which is much further from the U.S. mainland than Cuba is. So why not Cuba?
Puerto Rico is a part (territory, has vote a few times on becoming a state) of the US. Cuba hasn't been since 1902. As for Mexico, one can drive there. Cuba, not so easy.
Cuba also has the issue of the embargo, meaning US-based companies had issues.
How often do North American road atlases include Jamaica, Hispanola and the Lesser Antilles?
Due to the embargo, it was illegal for U.S. citizens to visit Cuba without a license up until 2014. You still have to have a license unless the purpose of your visit falls into certain categories, like visiting relatives, participating in humanitarian aid, etc. Simple tourism isn't one of those categories.
The AAA road atlas does feature the U.S. Virgin Islands along with their Puerto Rico coverage (complete with highways feature interstate shields.) But those are American territories and Cuba isn't, not anymore anyway.
My guess is that it mostly is due to the low market share of potential tourists to Cuba who would need a road map. It is cheap, by my understanding, to hire a driver in Cuba, plus with spotty fuel situations and undermaintained roads, I doubt your garden-variety American would even want to bother.
Quote from: SectorZ on April 20, 2016, 05:00:09 PM
Probably because 1 out of every 100,000 buyers of said road atlases are going to be driving within Cuba on a yearly basis?
Then why do the road atlases have Hawaii? Who in their right mind drives to Hawaii?
Quote from: bandit957 on April 21, 2016, 12:06:47 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 20, 2016, 05:00:09 PM
Probably because 1 out of every 100,000 buyers of said road atlases are going to be driving within Cuba on a yearly basis?
Then why do the road atlases have Hawaii? Who in their right mind drives to Hawaii?
Nobody but they sure get driven a lot more by Americans and include parts of the Interstate system much like Puerto Rico. Don't underestimate how much impact the old Cold War days still has on a lot of things. I don't see anyone calling for maps of North Korea and Siberia much either.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 21, 2016, 12:06:47 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 20, 2016, 05:00:09 PM
Probably because 1 out of every 100,000 buyers of said road atlases are going to be driving within Cuba on a yearly basis?
Then why do the road atlases have Hawaii? Who in their right mind drives to Hawaii?
I rented a car when I vacationed in Hawaii. It was 35 years ago. But I could rip out the page and pack the map.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 21, 2016, 12:06:47 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 20, 2016, 05:00:09 PM
Probably because 1 out of every 100,000 buyers of said road atlases are going to be driving within Cuba on a yearly basis?
Then why do the road atlases have Hawaii? Who in their right mind drives to Hawaii?
I'm still not sure if you're being serious or not...
Last I checked, there are a lot of car-owning Americans living in Hawaii who might at some point need to know how to get around.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 21, 2016, 12:06:47 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 20, 2016, 05:00:09 PM
Probably because 1 out of every 100,000 buyers of said road atlases are going to be driving within Cuba on a yearly basis?
Then why do the road atlases have Hawaii? Who in their right mind drives to Hawaii?
That reminds me of this Kia commercial from 1998. I loved it back then. Found it just recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBTjoieqzDQ
Not that I drive a Kia or anything, but they had a lot of quirky commercials during their first few years in the US
Quote from: bandit957 on April 20, 2016, 04:26:42 PM
How come the road atlases that cover most of North America and are marketed to U.S. customers don't cover Cuba? They include Puerto Rico, which is much further from the U.S. mainland than Cuba is. So why not Cuba?
Because 1950s.
Quote from: tdindy88 on April 20, 2016, 07:10:43 PM
The AAA road atlas does feature the U.S. Virgin Islands along with their Puerto Rico coverage (complete with highways feature interstate shields.) But those are American territories and Cuba isn't, not anymore anyway.
I have the 2015 AAA atlas. No US Virgin Islands and no interstate shields in either territory.
For most people, I doubt the inclusion of Cuba would affect their decision whether to purchase the atlas. It would add extra expense to the atlas though and would require communication with the Cuban government regarding updates.
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 12:58:24 PMno interstate shields in either territory.
PR is the only territory with interstates. And if there's no VI, what's the other one you are referring to here? Guam? ;)
Quote from: english si on April 20, 2016, 06:58:48 PMHow often do North American road atlases include Jamaica, Hispanola and the Lesser Antilles?
I forgot to add to this, Belize, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama
They say North America (or do they? my RMcN one just has "U.S. | CANADA | MEXICO") but they mean USA and Canada, with an overview map of Mexico (like how "Great Britain and Ireland" ones typically used to have one double page for Ireland at a similar scale to the smaller scale overview pages for Britain).
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2016, 07:23:13 AMLast I checked, there are a lot of car-owning Americans living in Hawaii who might at some point need to know how to get around.
And would surely do better with a state road atlas than one that gives the islands maybe a page (in the '07 RMcN I have in front of me, it gets half a page - sharing with Atlanta)?
Heck, the 2011 Michelin North America road atlas I have (it doesn't specify year so I searched the copyright) devotes two pages to Hawaii! That is pupule (Hawaiian for 'crazy') considering how many people would bring their cars there.
As mentioned, you don't need to bring your car to Hawaii in order to drive there. Plenty of rental car agencies.
If I owned a road atlas company I would leave Hawaii and Puerto Rico out of the atlas. It's stupid to even include them in my opinion. I'd include maps of Canada and Mexico since you can directly drive to those places from the continental US. If you live or are going to be visiting either Hawaii or Puerto Rico it makes more sense just to buy a map once you get there.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 21, 2016, 12:06:47 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on April 20, 2016, 05:00:09 PM
Probably because 1 out of every 100,000 buyers of said road atlases are going to be driving within Cuba on a yearly basis?
Then why do the road atlases have Hawaii? Who in their right mind drives to Hawaii?
Hawaii is a state so why not have it in the atlas. Many people fly there and rent a car. I have rented a car on three different islands. I planned my driving before leaving the Republic of Texas. Then I took the atlas with me.
I think a major reason for not having Cuba in the Atlas has already been stated clearly, travel has been restricted since I was a kid. Even if you went to Cuba during all those years I doubt you would be able to have the freedom of driving a car by yourself let alone select your route.
I'm still not 100% convinced this thread wasn't started in jest.
Quote from: english si on April 21, 2016, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 12:58:24 PMno interstate shields in either territory.
PR is the only territory with interstates. And if there's no VI, what's the other one you are referring to here? Guam? ;)
I was referring to tdindy88's assertion that there interstate shields in the PR and VI inserts (mine doesn't even
have a VI insert!) in the AAA atlas. Given that that atlas uses a yellow and red version of the interstate shield for Quebec's autoroutes, a lack of interstates doesn't necessarily mean the shields aren't there (plus PR's interstates are unsigned anyways).
Quote from: US 41 on April 21, 2016, 06:01:18 PM
If I owned a road atlas company I would leave Hawaii and Puerto Rico out of the atlas. It's stupid to even include them in my opinion. I'd include maps of Canada and Mexico since you can directly drive to those places from the continental US. If you live or are going to be visiting either Hawaii or Puerto Rico it makes more sense just to buy a map once you get there.
Because no one ever plans their driving in advance?
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 12:58:24 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on April 20, 2016, 07:10:43 PM
The AAA road atlas does feature the U.S. Virgin Islands along with their Puerto Rico coverage (complete with highways feature interstate shields.) But those are American territories and Cuba isn't, not anymore anyway.
I have the 2015 AAA atlas. No US Virgin Islands and no interstate shields in either territory.
It is there, at least in mine on the very last page. As long as it's the main atlas and not the large print one, that may be different. As for the interstate shields, that is only for the Puerto Rico one and yes I am aware that Puerto Rico doesn't have any signed interstates currently out there.
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2016, 06:06:23 PM
I'm still not 100% convinced this thread wasn't started in jest.
Given who started the thread, I can assure you that he was being fairly serious...that's just the way he operates.
Could you just imagine the flack a map company would get if they didn't include a map of Hawaii in their US Atlas?
I have a couple of 1950's Rand McNally Road Atlases that include road maps of Cuba. I presume they were removed after Castro took over.
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 22, 2016, 09:41:26 AM
I have a couple of 1950's Rand McNally Road Atlases that include road maps of Cuba. I presume they were removed after Castro took over.
Pictures, or it didn't happen!
A road atlas isn't only a tool to get from point A to point B, it also serves as a general-purpose reference work covering the entire U.S. (in the case of Rand McNally's, anyway). How many times have you seen someone just pull out the atlas to check a general geographical question having nothing to do with roads or travel? ("Which is farther north, St. Louis or Kansas City?" "Is Houston an inland or a coastal city?" "Oh, you live in Panama City; how close are you to Miami?") There's no reason it shouldn't include Hawaii, it being an equal component of the U.S. to any other state.
Indeed, I'd like to see an atlas that includes all of the U.S. possessions as well, but you don't often see a general-purpose (non-road) atlas covering just a single country. It's usually a world atlas, though it may focus more on a certain area depending on its market.
At least after Hawaii and Alaska statehood, I don't think you could call it a U.S. atlas if it didn't include them. And lots of people make general plans about their trips in advance using the U.S. atlas, for instance, is it practical to drive our rental car from Hilo to the Mauna Kea visitor center by lunchtime? Just like they do with trip planning in the contiguous 48.
Cuba, on the other hand, hasn't been a part of the United States by any definition since driving meant horses.
Quote from: kkt on April 22, 2016, 12:05:30 PM
At least after Hawaii and Alaska statehood, I don't think you could call it a U.S. atlas if it didn't include them. And lots of people make general plans about their trips in advance using the U.S. atlas, for instance, is it practical to drive our rental car from Hilo to the Mauna Kea visitor center by lunchtime? Just like they do with trip planning in the contiguous 48.
Cuba, on the other hand, hasn't been a part of the United States by any definition since driving meant horses.
Actually it probably would have been part of the U.S. if they Teller Amendment wasn't passed with specific language that Cuba wouldn't be annexed in a war with Spain. The Spanish-American War is actually pretty strange and interesting to read the back story up on. Basically the path to modern Caribbean was all set up during that war, it's just strange to think that Cuba could have been a U.S. territory like Puerto Rico if not a state by now if things had just been slightly different.
I recall learning in AP US History that there was an effort to annex Cuba even before the Civil War, but it pretty much never went anywhere because Cuba would have tilted the balance of power decisively towards the slave states.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 22, 2016, 12:24:31 PM
Actually it probably would have been part of the U.S. if they Teller Amendment wasn't passed with specific language that Cuba wouldn't be annexed in a war with Spain. The Spanish-American War is actually pretty strange and interesting to read the back story up on. Basically the path to modern Caribbean was all set up during that war, it's just strange to think that Cuba could have been a U.S. territory like Puerto Rico if not a state by now if things had just been slightly different.
Maybe, maybe not. Cuba was bigger and had stronger nationalist feeling than Puerto Rico even back in 1898. Maybe trying to make Cuba a U.S. territory permanently would have resulted in an unpleasant guerrilla war and independence after WW II when holding territories by force was no longer socially acceptable. Like the Philippines.
Quote from: vdeane on April 22, 2016, 12:45:06 PM
I recall learning in AP US History that there was an effort to annex Cuba even before the Civil War, but it pretty much never went anywhere because Cuba would have tilted the balance of power decisively towards the slave states.
It wouldn't surprise me during the Mexican-American War era if there was a push for something like that with Manifest Destiny. There was a huge camp of people back then that wanted to annex all of Mexico rather than just taking Alta California and Nuevo Mexico. Maybe...now that I think about it....that's all part of Fritzy's plan....time travel to alter the Mexican Cession, he does have Interstates in Mexico as part of his "plan." :paranoid:
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 06:26:23 PM
Quote from: english si on April 21, 2016, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 12:58:24 PMno interstate shields in either territory.
PR is the only territory with interstates. And if there's no VI, what's the other one you are referring to here? Guam? ;)
I was referring to tdindy88's assertion that there interstate shields in the PR and VI inserts (mine doesn't even have a VI insert!) in the AAA atlas. Given that that atlas uses a yellow and red version of the interstate shield for Quebec's autoroutes, a lack of interstates doesn't necessarily mean the shields aren't there (plus PR's interstates are unsigned anyways).
I have the AAA road atlas right in front of me, open to page 144. Puerto Rico at top, US Virgin Islands on bottom left of page. Inset of San Juan and Old San Juan, along with an orientation map of PR & VI
I recall someone, probably NE2, posting an old Florida map from the 1950s showing some sort of ferry service from Key West to Havana, though it didn't show Cuba itself.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 20, 2016, 04:26:42 PM
How come the road atlases that cover most of North America and are marketed to U.S. customers don't cover Cuba? They include Puerto Rico, which is much further from the U.S. mainland than Cuba is. So why not Cuba?
Probably because it's still somewhat illegal for US Citizens to travel to Cuba. Even with President Obama's recent relaxation of the restrictions, you still need to be going down there for one of a very limited set of purposes. Tourism is not one of those purposes. Knowledge of the roads in Cuba is only of interest to roadgeeks and a very small set of US non-roadgeeks. There's Google Maps for that (https://www.google.com/maps/@21.208423,-79.4040505,8z).
Quote from: chays on April 22, 2016, 02:36:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 06:26:23 PM
Quote from: english si on April 21, 2016, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 12:58:24 PMno interstate shields in either territory.
PR is the only territory with interstates. And if there's no VI, what's the other one you are referring to here? Guam? ;)
I was referring to tdindy88's assertion that there interstate shields in the PR and VI inserts (mine doesn't even have a VI insert!) in the AAA atlas. Given that that atlas uses a yellow and red version of the interstate shield for Quebec's autoroutes, a lack of interstates doesn't necessarily mean the shields aren't there (plus PR's interstates are unsigned anyways).
I have the AAA road atlas right in front of me, open to page 144. Puerto Rico at top, US Virgin Islands on bottom left of page. Inset of San Juan and Old San Juan, along with an orientation map of PR & VI
I have the "deluxe" edition... my page 144 is the US mileage chart. Puerto Rico appears along with Mexico on page 142 without inserts. Some pages are also quite out of date (NB 1 isn't shown as completed, for example; neither is I-86 east between Elmira and Chemung).
Quote from: vdeane on April 22, 2016, 07:51:39 PM
Quote from: chays on April 22, 2016, 02:36:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 06:26:23 PM
Quote from: english si on April 21, 2016, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 12:58:24 PMno interstate shields in either territory.
PR is the only territory with interstates. And if there's no VI, what's the other one you are referring to here? Guam? ;)
I was referring to tdindy88's assertion that there interstate shields in the PR and VI inserts (mine doesn't even have a VI insert!) in the AAA atlas. Given that that atlas uses a yellow and red version of the interstate shield for Quebec's autoroutes, a lack of interstates doesn't necessarily mean the shields aren't there (plus PR's interstates are unsigned anyways).
I have the AAA road atlas right in front of me, open to page 144. Puerto Rico at top, US Virgin Islands on bottom left of page. Inset of San Juan and Old San Juan, along with an orientation map of PR & VI
I have the "deluxe" edition... my page 144 is the US mileage chart. Puerto Rico appears along with Mexico on page 142 without inserts. Some pages are also quite out of date (NB 1 isn't shown as completed, for example; neither is I-86 east between Elmira and Chemung).
I'd be interested in what the cover says. Is it a large print ("easy reading") atlas? What is the cover photo? Reason I ask is that I work for AAA and am not familiar with a product that is the "deluxe" edition.
Quote from: chays on April 22, 2016, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 22, 2016, 07:51:39 PM
Quote from: chays on April 22, 2016, 02:36:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 06:26:23 PM
Quote from: english si on April 21, 2016, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 12:58:24 PMno interstate shields in either territory.
PR is the only territory with interstates. And if there's no VI, what's the other one you are referring to here? Guam? ;)
I was referring to tdindy88's assertion that there interstate shields in the PR and VI inserts (mine doesn't even have a VI insert!) in the AAA atlas. Given that that atlas uses a yellow and red version of the interstate shield for Quebec's autoroutes, a lack of interstates doesn't necessarily mean the shields aren't there (plus PR's interstates are unsigned anyways).
I have the AAA road atlas right in front of me, open to page 144. Puerto Rico at top, US Virgin Islands on bottom left of page. Inset of San Juan and Old San Juan, along with an orientation map of PR & VI
I have the "deluxe" edition... my page 144 is the US mileage chart. Puerto Rico appears along with Mexico on page 142 without inserts. Some pages are also quite out of date (NB 1 isn't shown as completed, for example; neither is I-86 east between Elmira and Chemung).
I'd be interested in what the cover says. Is it a large print ("easy reading") atlas? What is the cover photo? Reason I ask is that I work for AAA and am not familiar with a product that is the "deluxe" edition.
[AAA logo]
2 0 1 5
DELUXE
R O A D
atlasUnited States / Canada / MexicoUniquely USBRAKE-WORTHY
ROADSIDE
ATTRACTIONS
for every state!MORE DETAIL
than Large Print AtlasesQR CODES
For State DOT sites!SAME PAGE INDEX
350+
DETAILED CITY INSERTS
to help you navigate!MADE IN
USA
AMERICA
The picture appears to be of one of the Pacific Northwest national parks. The data is from Kappa Map Group.
Hopefully the last time I need to pull it out. It's at the bottom of my atlas stack by virtue of being my largest (in paper size) atlas.
Quote from: vdeane on April 23, 2016, 09:31:50 PM
Quote from: chays on April 22, 2016, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 22, 2016, 07:51:39 PM
Quote from: chays on April 22, 2016, 02:36:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 06:26:23 PM
Quote from: english si on April 21, 2016, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2016, 12:58:24 PMno interstate shields in either territory.
PR is the only territory with interstates. And if there's no VI, what's the other one you are referring to here? Guam? ;)
I was referring to tdindy88's assertion that there interstate shields in the PR and VI inserts (mine doesn't even have a VI insert!) in the AAA atlas. Given that that atlas uses a yellow and red version of the interstate shield for Quebec's autoroutes, a lack of interstates doesn't necessarily mean the shields aren't there (plus PR's interstates are unsigned anyways).
I have the AAA road atlas right in front of me, open to page 144. Puerto Rico at top, US Virgin Islands on bottom left of page. Inset of San Juan and Old San Juan, along with an orientation map of PR & VI
I have the "deluxe" edition... my page 144 is the US mileage chart. Puerto Rico appears along with Mexico on page 142 without inserts. Some pages are also quite out of date (NB 1 isn't shown as completed, for example; neither is I-86 east between Elmira and Chemung).
I'd be interested in what the cover says. Is it a large print ("easy reading") atlas? What is the cover photo? Reason I ask is that I work for AAA and am not familiar with a product that is the "deluxe" edition.
[AAA logo]
2 0 1 5
DELUXE
R O A D
atlas
United States / Canada / Mexico
Uniquely US
BRAKE-WORTHY
ROADSIDE
ATTRACTIONS
for every state!
MORE DETAIL
than Large Print Atlases
QR CODES
For State DOT sites!
SAME PAGE INDEX
350+
DETAILED CITY INSERTS
to help you navigate!
MADE IN
USA
AMERICA
The picture appears to be of one of the Pacific Northwest national parks. The data is from Kappa Map Group.
Hopefully the last time I need to pull it out. It's at the bottom of my atlas stack by virtue of being my largest (in paper size) atlas.
Interesting. That is definitely not the standard AAA atlas that I'm used to seeing. AAA is an interesting entity in that it is made up of a federation of different geographically-based clubs. Each club has a certain amount of autonomy, and whichever one you got that from has decided to use the Kappa product with a AAA branding. I guess you don't get USVI after all from your club :-/
Have a great day- put that atlas back into the stack.
My 2012 version of the standard AAA atlas is the same as chays describes, with Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands on the last page (concidentally page 144) before the back cover.
Personally I'd like a 48-state atlas. It could include more two-page spreads and more insets of the places where I'd actually drive. When I went to Hawaii, I brought some fold maps of the state instead of the atlas. The atlas scale is not that useful for the state and the fold maps took up less space in luggage than the book.
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2016, 10:43:40 AM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on April 22, 2016, 09:41:26 AM
I have a couple of 1950's Rand McNally Road Atlases that include road maps of Cuba. I presume they were removed after Castro took over.
Pictures, or it didn't happen!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/10_24_04_16_10_08_54.jpeg)
From the 1955 Rmcn. Can corroborate what RoadWarrior56 wrote in that Cuba insets were included for several years during the 50's.
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 22, 2016, 03:31:34 PM
I recall someone, probably NE2, posting an old Florida map from the 1950s showing some sort of ferry service from Key West to Havana, though it didn't show Cuba itself.
Here is one from a 1958 Florida fold map I have. I have several others showing an inset for Cuba from the 50s as well.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/10_24_04_16_10_10_09.jpeg)
Quote from: Alex on April 24, 2016, 10:14:24 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/gallery/10_24_04_16_10_10_09.jpeg)
Sex in advertising. Always.
Cuba might have been a good place for a sexcapade back then.
Argh, I have to admit I don't dig non-north oriented maps.