https://www.dot.ny.gov/portal/page/portal/content/admin/i50anniversary/repository/unknown-6.jpg
Certainly a cloverleaf interchange would never have been intended here with the Thruway being a tollraod. It looks to me to be located at present exit 25.
Now that is a nice find. I had no idea such a picture existed. Believe it or not, the original Exit 45 (http://historicaerials.com?layer=1951&zoom=16&lat=43.01065685484877&lon=-77.44380712509155) was a 6/8 cloverleaf[/url]. This was one of the first sections of the Thruway that was constructed (if not the first) and was originally an extension of NY 332 to bypass Victor. I do not know this for sure, but some of the early plans make it seem as if all of the urban areas (not just Downstate and Buffalo) were to have barrier tolls, with tickets in between. This would explain Exit 45 and the picture you posted of the proposed Exit 25.
What intrigues me is the expressway heading south from the cloverleaf, which would appear to be modern-day Interstate 88, and the presence of the Crosstown Connection. I do not know when plans were first made, but I-88 is a relatively late addition to the Interstate system and I'm quite surprised that it shows up on an image that predates the ticket system going through Albany.
And if you haven't been welcomed yet, welcome to the forums!
The picture looks doctored to digitally analogly add the cloverleaf interchange into the scene. Notice how there doesn't seem to be any interruption of the treelines within the interchange itself and the divided highway that heads off the bottom left of the pic just doesn't seem to have ever existed.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on April 22, 2016, 07:31:11 AM
The picture looks doctored to digitally analogly add the cloverleaf interchange into the scene. Notice how there doesn't seem to be any interruption of the treelines within the interchange itself and the divided highway that heads off the bottom left of the pic just doesn't seem to have ever existed.
It was. It appears to be an early proposal. Current Exit 25, originally for NY 146, predates I-890 by ~6 years and it always was a ticket interchange. The only non-trumpet excluding Exit 20 built in the original ticket system was Exit 45, which was reconfigured pretty quickly.
CL94, your posts and link answers a question someone asked several weeks ago: Apparently NYSTA was/is replacing the bridges just west of Victor, and a poster here wondered why they were of a decorative arch design. Your link to historic Arials show the bridges completed in the image.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 22, 2016, 11:42:22 AM
CL94, your posts and link answers a question someone asked several weeks ago: Apparently NYSTA was/is replacing the bridges just west of Victor, and a poster here wondered why they were of a decorative arch design. Your link to historic Arials show the bridges completed in the image.
I completely missed that. I'm usually on top of those things. With this being the first stretch of the Thruway constructed (and the first real limited-access highway in Upstate New York), it bears many design similarities to the NYC expressways and parkways. Many bridges between Exits 44 and 46 differ in design from the rest of the Thruway, including the many one-lane underpasses that line this stretch. The current NY 64 bridge is original (and in much better shape than most bridges along the Thruway). Even then, the Thruway was designed for 6 lanes, and as such, 4 of the 5 bridges carrying the Thruway between Exits 44 and 45 (exclusive) are original.
Quote from: cl94 on April 21, 2016, 10:49:12 PM
Now that is a nice find. I had no idea such a picture existed. Believe it or not, the original Exit 45 (http://historicaerials.com?layer=1951&zoom=16&lat=43.01065685484877&lon=-77.44380712509155) was a 6/8 cloverleaf[/url]. This was one of the first sections of the Thruway that was constructed (if not the first) and was originally an extension of NY 332 to bypass Victor. I do not know this for sure, but some of the early plans make it seem as if all of the urban areas (not just Downstate and Buffalo) were to have barrier tolls, with tickets in between. This would explain Exit 45 and the picture you posted of the proposed Exit 25.
What intrigues me is the expressway heading south from the cloverleaf, which would appear to be modern-day Interstate 88, and the presence of the Crosstown Connection. I do not know when plans were first made, but I-88 is a relatively late addition to the Interstate system and I'm quite surprised that it shows up on an image that predates the ticket system going through Albany.
And if you haven't been welcomed yet, welcome to the forums!
The Thruway was actually planned initially as a toll-free road... the tolls were added later because it would have taken 50 years to build without the tolls. If only they had waited...
Perhaps that bit of I-890 extending south would have been a connector to NY 146?
The Crosstown Arterial was actually built as part of NY's arterial law rather than for I-88.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 22, 2016, 11:42:22 AM
CL94, your posts and link answers a question someone asked several weeks ago: Apparently NYSTA was/is replacing the bridges just west of Victor, and a poster here wondered why they were of a decorative arch design. Your link to historic Arials show the bridges completed in the image.
I missed this. Wasn't even aware of the Thruway arch bridges. Where's an example? Street view is just showing me regular ones.
Quote from: Alps on April 22, 2016, 06:10:12 PM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on April 22, 2016, 11:42:22 AM
CL94, your posts and link answers a question someone asked several weeks ago: Apparently NYSTA was/is replacing the bridges just west of Victor, and a poster here wondered why they were of a decorative arch design. Your link to historic Arials show the bridges completed in the image.
I missed this. Wasn't even aware of the Thruway arch bridges. Where's an example? Street view is just showing me regular ones.
NY 64 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.031209,-77.5162511,3a,75y,101.52h,81.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRaQ2mItAoTZbAJ9vnMrKZQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) is the only one left.
I never got to see them on person, living in Erie at the time with a lady in Rochester, I never did Henrietta to Victor.
Quote from: cl94 on April 22, 2016, 06:45:41 PM
NY 64 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.031209,-77.5162511,3a,75y,101.52h,81.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRaQ2mItAoTZbAJ9vnMrKZQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) is the only one left.
There is another arch bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1826402,-73.9258329,3a,75y,9.1h,94.1t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sd6qiMuaV2oVAJ6hXjOSLpw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dd6qiMuaV2oVAJ6hXjOSLpw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D92.48584%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656) just north of Saugerties. Not quite the same design, but the only other bridge of this type on the system.
Quote from: Snappyjack on April 22, 2016, 08:08:48 PM
Quote from: cl94 on April 22, 2016, 06:45:41 PM
NY 64 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.031209,-77.5162511,3a,75y,101.52h,81.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRaQ2mItAoTZbAJ9vnMrKZQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) is the only one left.
There is another arch bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1826402,-73.9258329,3a,75y,9.1h,94.1t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sd6qiMuaV2oVAJ6hXjOSLpw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dd6qiMuaV2oVAJ6hXjOSLpw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D92.48584%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656) just north of Saugerties. Not quite the same design, but the only other bridge of this type on the system.
Forgot about that one. Of course, there is a pair of arch bridges within a couple miles in Silver Creek (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5123183,-79.1727089,3a,75y,15.86h,75.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4nbOkpQA5YMq0xhXRf5SZQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), but those aren't visible from the Thruway itself.
Quote from: vdeaneThe Thruway was actually planned initially as a toll-free road...
Not to borrow a comment from SPUI (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2017.msg2121630#msg2121630), but I really would like to see the citation or source for this one.
Will this do?
http://www.upstatenyroads.com/thruway-history1.shtml
CHAPTER 914
AN ACT to amend the highway law, in relation to a new system of state through-traffic roads, called thruways
Became a law May 22, 1942, with the approval of the Governor. Passed, three-fifths being present
The People of the State of New York, represented in Senate and Assembly, do enact as follows:
Section 1. Section three of chapter sixty-three of the laws of nineteen hundred thirty-six, entitled "An Act relating to highways, constituting chapter twenty-five of the consolidated laws," as last amended by chapter two hundred forty-eight of the laws of nineteen hundred thirty-seven, is hereby amended to read as follows:
[...]
§ 348. Payment of cost of state thruways. The entire cost of the construction or improvement and maintenance of a state thruway, including the cost of acquisition of rights of way therefor, shall be at the sole expense of the state and shall, except for the preparation of plans and specifications and for engineering and other services incidental to the preparation of plans and specifications including field surveys and sub-surface investigations, be paid only from moneys specifically appropriated for such purpose, subject to the provisions of this chapter relating to federal aid; provided, however, that where any state highway or part thereof specified in sections three hundred forty or three hundred forty-one of this chapter or any improvement or reconstruction thereof shall be utilized by the superintendent of public works as a part of any state thruway, moneys appropriated for the construction and reconstruction of state highways may be expended therefor and rights of way therefor shall be acquired as provided in article three of this chapter.
§ 349. Application of chapter. All the provisions of this chapter relating to state highways and not inconsistent with the provisions of this article shall apply to the construction or improvement and the control and maintenance of state thruways in the same manner as though they were designated as state highways.
§ 349-a. State thruway routes. State thruway routes are hereby set forth and described as follows:
1. The Catskill thruway. Beginning at a point on the New York-New Jersey state line near Suffern, extending in a general northerly direction through the Ramapo Valley passing Harriman continuing northerly and in the vicinity of Central Valley, Highland Mills, Woodberry, Vails Gate, thence by-passing Newburg on the west, thence northerly past the hamlets of Plattekill and New Paltz, thence by-passing to the west or passing through the city of Kingston and continuing northerly to the west of Saugerties in the vicinity of Unionville and passing westerly of Catskill in the vicinity of Kiskatom, continuing northerly passing West Coxsackie in the vicinity of Urlton, passing west of Ravena in the vicinity of Coeymans Hollow, northerly passing the Feura Bush yards at either their easterly or westerly extremities, thence continuing northerly passing to the west of the city of Albany and intersecting United States route number twenty in the vicinity of McKownsville.
2. The Mohawk thruway. Starting at the northerly end of the Catskill thruway on United States route number twenty at or in the vicinity of McKownsville, continuing northerly passing the Albany-Schenectady highway in the vicinity of Maywood and crossing the Mohawk river near Rexford, continuing northerly to a point south of Ballston lake, thence northwesterly to the south of Burnt Hills, north of Amsterdam in the vicinity of Hageman, continuing thence in a general westerly direction passing to the south of the city of Johnstown and north of Fonda, continuing westerly passing in the vicinity of Ephratah, thence westerly north of the village of St. Johnsville and the cities of Little Falls and Herkimer, continuing northwesterly by-passing or passing through the city of Utica in the vicinity of Deerfield, thence westerly passing in the vicinity of Whitesboro, West Moreland, and north of the city of Oneida, continuing westerly to the south of the Cicero swamp to a point on United States route number eleven north of the village of Liverpool.
3. The Ontario thruway. Starting at the westerly end of the Mohawk thruway at a point on United States route number eleven north of the village of Liverpool, thence westerly north of the northern extremity of Onondaga lake, thence in a southwesterly direction crossing the New York Central and West Shore railroads in the vicinity of Warner, passing in the vicinity of Elbridge and Sennett, thence in a westerly direction north of the city of Auburn crossing the Seneca river in the vicinity of Mud Lock or Free Bridge, thence westerly north of the villages of Seneca Falls and Waterloo and passing in the vicinity of West Junius, Phelps, Clifton Springs and Manchester, passing north of Victor and in the vicinity of Mendon, Rush and Mumford, continuing westerly north of the city of Batavia, passing in the vicinity of Pembroke, thence southwesterly passing to the east of the village of Lancaster, terminating at the Transit road in the vicinity of East Seneca.
4. The Erie thruway. Starting at the westerly end of the Ontario thruway at a point on the Transit road in the vicinity of East Seneca, thence in a southwesterly direction following the existing Southwestern boulevard to a point near the village of Irving, thence by-passing the village of Silver Creek to the south, thence extending in a general southwesterly direction to the Pennsylvania state line on a location lying between United States route number twenty and state touring route number five.
Now that has some stuff I didn't know. The Thruway was supposed to bypass Buffalo 5-10 miles further southeast, basically following the route of the later planned Outer Loop?
Quote from: cl94 on April 24, 2016, 06:18:22 PM
Now that has some stuff I didn't know. The Thruway was supposed to bypass Buffalo 5-10 miles further southeast, basically following the route of the later planned Outer Loop?
Also it would have been a bit to the west between Kingston and Albany, a bit to the north between Albany and Utica, and a bit to the south between Syracuse and Geneva.