Does anyone else think road striping is more common now than it was in the '70s or '80s? It sure seems that way around here. In my day, some major streets and roads didn't even have a stripe down the middle, but they do now. I've also seen older photos where city streets that were part of a U.S. highway didn't even have a stripe.
Are road budgets really bigger now than they were 30 or 40 years ago?
Oh I'm sure. With all the growth and sprawl that has happened since then there has to have been a significant increase in striped roads. Along with increased safety standards, even zero-growth areas have seen stripes added to pavement.
There are some roads near me that once only had edge lines, but have since been marked with yellow turtles in the middle (so not striping per se, but a marking nonetheless). Now, roads with only edge lines are much harder to find.
For the longest time, Pierce County, Washington only painted crosswalks at very select locations (such as school crossings). At signals, there would be the crosswalk signals, ramps, pushbuttons, etc, but no marking of the crosswalk itself. That practice changed several years ago, and most of the unmarked crosswalks are now marked with WSDOT-standard zebra markings.
I think so. My city used to previously do center lines only on major streets and main residential thru ways. Now almost all new road construction jobs call for white edge lines separating parking lane from traffic, a bike lane or bikes share road with cars lane symbol ( Bike with two chevron above it) Also crosswalks vary between solid lines and dashed white rectangles for whatever reason. Stop bars are usually only common at 4 way stops or major stop signs and traffic lights.
Depends. One town near me has added some stripping. In the meantime, the city I work in rarely repaints lines, and when a road is repaved, generally doesn't put down any lines except near the intersection.
My recollection from the 70s and before was that only some of the busiest city streets were striped, at least in Indiana. Striping is much more prevalent now. In my town, South Bend, we could still use more markings, particularly where it isn't obvious whether there are two or four lanes of traffic. It causes a lot of confusion.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2016, 12:35:28 AMNow, roads with only edge lines are much harder to find.
Kentucky did a highway safety project either last year or the year before in which they painted edge lines only on a bunch of narrow rural secondary roads.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 27, 2016, 10:13:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2016, 12:35:28 AM
Now, roads with only edge lines are much harder to find.
Kentucky did a highway safety project either last year or the year before in which they painted edge lines only on a bunch of narrow rural secondary roads.
I certainly find edge lines to be more helpful than center lines, if only because ditches can be hard to see at night, plus, the white of the edge line is really bright when lit by a headlight (white seems to be a better reflector at night).
This phenomenon isn't just with pavement markings. It includes signage in general, as well as guardrails. The only thing that is less common now is delineators. Nowadays, you don't even see them half of the time on freeway entrance and exit ramps, even though they are required. Even Florida, which was the delineator capital of the US, has really gone downhill on this.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 28, 2016, 02:09:33 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 27, 2016, 10:13:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2016, 12:35:28 AM
Now, roads with only edge lines are much harder to find.
Kentucky did a highway safety project either last year or the year before in which they painted edge lines only on a bunch of narrow rural secondary roads.
I certainly find edge lines to be more helpful than center lines, if only because ditches can be hard to see at night, plus, the white of the edge line is really bright when lit by a headlight (white seems to be a better reflector at night).
Agreed. I'd much rather have edge lines and no center line than vice versa.
Here is a good example of it. (https://goo.gl/maps/1Rgz9q7gCND2)
Quote from: kphoger on May 28, 2016, 10:35:32 AM
Agreed. I'd much rather have edge lines and no center line than vice versa.
Here is a good example of it. (https://goo.gl/maps/1Rgz9q7gCND2)
Yes, that line should really help mowers to tell where grass ends..
Quote from: kphoger on May 28, 2016, 10:35:32 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 28, 2016, 02:09:33 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 27, 2016, 10:13:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2016, 12:35:28 AM
Now, roads with only edge lines are much harder to find.
Kentucky did a highway safety project either last year or the year before in which they painted edge lines only on a bunch of narrow rural secondary roads.
I certainly find edge lines to be more helpful than center lines, if only because ditches can be hard to see at night, plus, the white of the edge line is really bright when lit by a headlight (white seems to be a better reflector at night).
Agreed. I'd much rather have edge lines and no center line than vice versa.
Here is a good example of it. (https://goo.gl/maps/1Rgz9q7gCND2)
And this (https://goo.gl/maps/WTLAgQ9ZS892) in Michigan. Parts of this road are twisty and edge lines are definitely more important.
It seems like Kentucky usually striped SIGNED state routes, but unsigned state routes weren't always so.
NDOT continues to use Botts' Dots in the Las Vegas District even today.
Here in Arizona ADOT has used Botts' Dots in the past in the snow-free areas of the state, but stopped using them in the late 1990s. US 95 south of Yuma is one of the last state-maintained roads that still has them today, and this road is long overdue for repaving.
Quote from: bandit957 on May 28, 2016, 10:52:20 PM
It seems like Kentucky usually striped SIGNED state routes, but unsigned state routes weren't always so.
Heh. I remember when they painted edge lines on KY 122 between Martin and Melvin. That was in the late 1980s or early 1990s. As my mother, who grew up in Wheelwright quipped, "They're treating this like it's a real road!"
Of course, when she was a kid, KY 122 had portions that were still just the creek bed.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2016, 12:35:28 AM
There are some roads near me that once only had edge lines, but have since been marked with yellow turtles in the middle (so not striping per se, but a marking nonetheless). Now, roads with only edge lines are much harder to find.
For the longest time, Pierce County, Washington only painted crosswalks at very select locations (such as school crossings). At signals, there would be the crosswalk signals, ramps, pushbuttons, etc, but no marking of the crosswalk itself. That practice changed several years ago, and most of the unmarked crosswalks are now marked with WSDOT-standard zebra markings.
Really wish Seattle would get with the program and cover the streets with crosswalk markings.
Unfortunately, most places won't be able to just get a cheap marked crossing, but needing signals and signs because of how dangerous it is/is perceived to be.
Since it's an obvious safety feature of modern roadways, I would expect more roads to be striped than in the past.
Lane striping dramatically improves a driver's ability to perceive their position on the roadway, especially how it relates to oncoming traffic. Stripes make it easier to drive straighter in the lane and negotiate curves without drifting. The reflectivity of the paint extends the reach of headlights at night, especially in situations where drivers can't use their high beams.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH1X1hG3F5Y Guy really annoyed at the new lines in the Wakefield Rotary
Quote from: mariethefoxy on June 16, 2016, 04:24:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH1X1hG3F5Y Guy really annoyed at the new lines in the Wakefield Rotary
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/09/new-wakefield-rotary-configuration-causes-confusion-uproar/
Quote from: mariethefoxy on June 16, 2016, 04:24:14 AM
Guy really annoyed at the new lines in the Wakefield Rotary
I'm sure he was being overdramatic, but I too don't like all that blank space outside of the usable lane space. I'd fill in the shoulders with grass or a curb extension, to at least clear up some of the confusion.
Sounds like someone needs to learn how modern roundabouts work.
They appear to be some really narrow lanes as well.
Quote from: vdeane on June 16, 2016, 08:38:45 PM
Sounds like someone needs to learn how modern roundabouts work.
His insistence on travelling round and round may have exacerbated the situation -- the roundabout may not be striped for U-turns.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 16, 2016, 11:10:40 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 16, 2016, 08:38:45 PM
Sounds like someone needs to learn how modern roundabouts work.
His insistence on travelling round and round may have exacerbated the situation -- the roundabout may not be striped for U-turns.
U-Turns are probably OK - that's where he would've left the roundabout prior to crossing over the solid lines. Continuing on doing the complete 360 is where the problem was.
Quote from: roadman on June 16, 2016, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: mariethefoxy on June 16, 2016, 04:24:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH1X1hG3F5Y Guy really annoyed at the new lines in the Wakefield Rotary
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/09/new-wakefield-rotary-configuration-causes-confusion-uproar/
"This is stupid!" Translation: "I don't understand this application of a subject that I know nothing about and haven't made the slightest effort to research."
And of course, yet another local news blurb that doesn't even attempt to explain why the markings are confusing, how they're supposed to work, how drivers expect them to work, or what process the DOT went through to design and install them.
iPhone
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 17, 2016, 12:09:23 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 16, 2016, 11:10:40 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 16, 2016, 08:38:45 PM
Sounds like someone needs to learn how modern roundabouts work.
His insistence on travelling round and round may have exacerbated the situation -- the roundabout may not be striped for U-turns.
U-Turns are probably OK - that's where he would've left the roundabout prior to crossing over the solid lines. Continuing on doing the complete 360 is where the problem was.
That's actually what I was trying to say, but I didn't word it properly. Whoops.
Anyways, I think that all rotaries ought to be striped like the Wakefield Roundabout (not really a rotary anymore). They may be confusing at first, but I think in time, they'll prove safer. The nice thing is, seeing as the rest of the country is used to roundabouts, they'll prove easier to navigate by those not from the area.
Quote from: empirestate on June 17, 2016, 12:20:09 PM
Quote from: roadman on June 16, 2016, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: mariethefoxy on June 16, 2016, 04:24:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH1X1hG3F5Y Guy really annoyed at the new lines in the Wakefield Rotary
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/09/new-wakefield-rotary-configuration-causes-confusion-uproar/
"This is stupid!" Translation: "I don't understand this application of a subject that I know nothing about and haven't made the slightest effort to research."
And of course, yet another local news blurb that doesn't even attempt to explain why the markings are confusing, how they're supposed to work, how drivers expect them to work, or what process the DOT went through to design and install them.
iPhone
How Local news works:
Lead story Sunday morning: Winner in $500 million Powerball drawing last night hasn't come forward yet.
Story #2: Powerball winner can't come forward on the weekend because lottery headquarters is closed for the weekend, and it's only 6am Sunday.
Story #3: Advice to Powerball Winner: Take your time coming forward, and talk to a financial specialist & lawyer first.
Story #4: Reporter at convenience store wondering where the winner is.
And this is all in the first 2 minutes of the newscast.
Story #5: Exclusive weather alert for partly cloudy skies. Take shelter immediately. Ignore yesterday's forecast for snow.
Commercial #1: Commercial advertising they are the most accurate weather team in the city.
^^ Clearly you get Philly-area television stations . . . :-D
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 17, 2016, 12:44:30 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 17, 2016, 12:20:09 PM
Quote from: roadman on June 16, 2016, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: mariethefoxy on June 16, 2016, 04:24:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH1X1hG3F5Y Guy really annoyed at the new lines in the Wakefield Rotary
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/09/new-wakefield-rotary-configuration-causes-confusion-uproar/
"This is stupid!" Translation: "I don't understand this application of a subject that I know nothing about and haven't made the slightest effort to research."
And of course, yet another local news blurb that doesn't even attempt to explain why the markings are confusing, how they're supposed to work, how drivers expect them to work, or what process the DOT went through to design and install them.
iPhone
How Local news works:
Story #5: Exclusive weather alert for partly cloudy skies. Take shelter immediately. Ignore yesterday's forecast for snow.
Commercial #1: Commercial advertising they are the most accurate weather team in the city.
You never know when you're going to have to shovel six inches of "partly cloudy" out of your driveway! :-D
Quote from: empirestate on June 17, 2016, 12:20:09 PM
"This is stupid!" Translation: "I don't understand this application of a subject that I know nothing about and haven't made the slightest effort to research."
No driver should have to "research" what lane to be in for which exit from a rotary. The only signage on this rotary is at its exits, as it was before this hare-brained idea was implemented. It's no longer enough.
There's absolutely no advance warning of which lane to be in for which exit, and only limited amounts of space in which you can lawfully change lanes once you figure it out. The striping also leads to excessive weaving for drivers entering the rotary who aren't leaving at the first exit.
Bottom line: It IS stupid and the new striping will be routinely ignored.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 17, 2016, 12:27:58 PMThe nice thing is, seeing as the rest of the country is used to roundabouts, they'll prove easier to navigate by those not from the area.
Those who aren't from the area don't use them every day, and the vast majority of traffic will be locals.
If they expect people to obey the new lane markings, they will need extra signage so drivers will know which lane to be in, when and where. Dumping this on drivers with no warning or explanation was not MassDOT's finest hour.
Quote from: SidS1045 on June 27, 2016, 11:25:30 AM
Quote from: empirestate on June 17, 2016, 12:20:09 PM
"This is stupid!" Translation: "I don't understand this application of a subject that I know nothing about and haven't made the slightest effort to research."
No driver should have to "research" what lane to be in for which exit from a rotary.
Granted. However, someone posting a video critiquing the work done by a government agency should have to research what work was done, why it was done that way, and/or why it should have been done a different way, if he is to be taken seriously.
Bottom line: it may very well be stupid, but the merits of that case completely fail to be presented here.
The roundabout should be self-explanatory upon arrival. Even four-way traffic stop signs are self=explanatory. Everyone stops. Usually a route marker telling you what the cross road is (either a street green blade or a trailblazer, etc), and you can deduce what you want to do from there. A roundabout that has multiple lanes and have to ensure you're in the right lane to exit when you want to is a bit complicated.
Dumb it down. There'll be less problems if even the idiots among us can figure it out. For instance, a well-signed DDI doesn't need an explanation. The signs and lane markings do it all for you.
Quote from: Brian556 on May 28, 2016, 02:22:09 AM
This phenomenon isn't just with pavement markings. It includes signage in general, as well as guardrails. The only thing that is less common now is delineators. Nowadays, you don't even see them half of the time on freeway entrance and exit ramps, even though they are required. Even Florida, which was the delineator capital of the US, has really gone downhill on this.
My guess is that improvements in headlight technology have made these largely obsolete. As such, they're just an obstacle on the road, rather than a necessary tool for marking lanes off at night.
Quote from: Sykotyk on June 29, 2016, 08:45:28 PM
The roundabout should be self-explanatory upon arrival. Even four-way traffic stop signs are self=explanatory. Everyone stops. Usually a route marker telling you what the cross road is (either a street green blade or a trailblazer, etc), and you can deduce what you want to do from there. A roundabout that has multiple lanes and have to ensure you're in the right lane to exit when you want to is a bit complicated.
Dumb it down. There'll be less problems if even the idiots among us can figure it out. For instance, a well-signed DDI doesn't need an explanation. The signs and lane markings do it all for you.
They are significantly self-explanatory in a sense one sign directing to correct lane tells it all. That requires a bit of understanding of how RA works (not very common thing) and good spatial orientation. At least 4-leg roundabouts. I used to give directions through roundabout chain as "270 degrees on first one, 180 on second and 90 on third" - and that was generally understood.
Now if there are any additional factors (like traffic), telling which leg is the 270 one quickly becomes confusing since you cannot see your exit direction while entering RA, and there are no visual anchors...
Quote from: TXtoNJ on June 30, 2016, 10:10:18 AM
Quote from: Brian556 on May 28, 2016, 02:22:09 AM
This phenomenon isn't just with pavement markings. It includes signage in general, as well as guardrails. The only thing that is less common now is delineators. Nowadays, you don't even see them half of the time on freeway entrance and exit ramps, even though they are required. Even Florida, which was the delineator capital of the US, has really gone downhill on this.
My guess is that improvements in headlight technology have made these largely obsolete. As such, they're just an obstacle on the road, rather than a necessary tool for marking lanes off at night.
Delineators have actually been added to two exits on US 33 in Columbus in the past few years, at the OH 104 West and I-70 West entrance ramps.
I recently used Google Street View to drive some of the streets in La Canada Flintridge, California, and some streets that weren't striped now have it.