AARoads Forum

It seems like in the last 10 years or so, the use of the center turn lane (aka TWLTL) and merge lanes (not from ramp to freeway, but from side street to arterial) have been corrupted.

In regard to Center Turn Lanes, I constantly see people using the turn lane as an acceleration/merge lane, often times with people creeping, crawling or simply parked in the center turn lane trying to get into the travel lane.

With merge lanes, I see more-or-less the same problem, people will inch forward into the merge lane until they run out of lane. Where I live (Myrtle Beach, SC), I've seen upwards of 3 or more cars literally PARKED in the acceleration/merge lanes waiting for a gap in traffic.

After watching people improperly using the accel lanes have caused me to view them with disdain. The same can be said with center-turn lanes. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents due to these issues.

How does one fix these issues?

Center turn lanes have that issue across the country and I was actually told to use it as an acceleration lane in driver's ed (I don't). If the driving instructors tell people to do it, it's not going to go away any time soon.

It depends on state laws, but in many states the TWLTL is permitted to be used as an acceleration lane, or at minimum a lane to pull into to wait for a gap in traffic. They must be late to the party in your area...I recall seeing this done in Delaware when I was in college there 19-23 years ago!

The acceleration lanes on highways are being used properly as well. While you're supposed to speed up and merge into traffic, that's dependent on if there's room to merge. If traffic is so tightly packed that a vehicle can't merge in, they have 3 options: Merge anyway into another vehicle and cause an accident, drive on the shoulder until they can merge in, or wait until there's a gap. The first two options are illegal.

Thus, in both cases, I don't see anything wrong with either.

It was not until I saw a brochure on the proper use of center turn lanes (TWLTL's) a few years ago that was published by Kansas that I learned that it was OK to pull into the center turn lane if making a left turn, and then wait for a gap in traffic to move into the travel lane.

lol I do that all the time, getting out of this one McDonalds, i turn left into the middle center turn lane and wait for a gap then move over. You could be waiting a long time for traffic to really open up otherwise.

There are places that don't use the center lane to merge? This is the first I've heard of this. I use the center lane to merge even when there isn't any cars around. I was taught, both by family and driver's ed, to turn into the closest lane. This includes the center turn lane on applicable roads. If you didn't use the center lane, you'd be waiting all day!

Here's Washington's laws on the books:

Quote from: RCW 46.61.290
The driver of a vehicle intending to turn shall do so as follows:
...
(3) Two-way left turn lanes.
(a) The department of transportation and local authorities in their respective jurisdictions may designate a two-way left turn lane on a roadway. A two-way left turn lane is near the center of the roadway set aside for use by vehicles making left turns in either direction from or into the roadway.
(c) Upon a roadway where a center lane has been provided by distinctive pavement markings for the use of vehicles turning left from either direction, no vehicles may turn left from any other lane. A vehicle shall not be driven in this center lane for the purpose of overtaking or passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction. No vehicle may travel further than three hundred feet within the lane. A signal, either electric or manual, for indicating a left turn movement, shall be made at least one hundred feet before the actual left turn movement is made.

What is a problem in Orlando is that one way left turn pockets are being used as merge lanes with the mergers going the opposite way of the turn.  Despite a double yellow line to the right of you with a single white line to the left of you, people will still treat is as the double turn lane.

Also, before US 192 in Kissimmee had its center turn lane removed, I was turning into Checkers and the center turn lane was not striped at the fast food's driveway for two way turn.  It was striped for EB Traffic only so they could turn into the side street which crosses US 192 where Checkers is at.  I, of course, was going WB and did not want to misuse it like the rest of the people do, so I made the turn from the farthest left lane that was there.  I then got honked at by the guy behind me for not using the opposite direction turn lane for my turn.

Now that set up is history and so is OBT in Orlando from FL 528 to I-4 where a grass median and J Turns was added there as well.  So far those are the only two projects I am aware of that eliminated them due to safety concerns. however to get FDOT's attention on them they are aware of not only the merge thing, but those who also use the lane to pass a long line of cars to get to the next signal's green protected left.  I have to admit I did it many years ago in Clark, NJ on Central Avenue to turn left on Raritan Road, until one guy who I thought was a moron at the time, decided to cut in front of me to turn left into a Supermarket that most people access via Raritan Road.  Luckily I was not in a collision with the guy, nor anywhere close to it, but I am sure we have some collisions from other drivers doing what I did back then.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 01, 2016, 10:01:32 PM
It depends on state laws, but in many states the TWLTL is permitted to be used as an acceleration lane, or at minimum a lane to pull into to wait for a gap in traffic. They must be late to the party in your area...

Nope, not late to the party.  Doing so is expressly permitted by the South Carolina vehicle code, which means the OP was simply mistaken.

Quote from: SECTION 56 5 2120. Required position and method of turning.
(d) Two way left turn lanes. Where a special lane for making left turns by drivers proceeding in the opposite directions has been indicated by official traffic control devices:
2. A vehicle shall not be driven in the lane except when preparing for or making a left turn from or into the roadway or when preparing for or making a U turn when otherwise permitted by law.

I wish that here in Florida we would ticket drivers who misuse the center turn lane. Heck the officers salary could be paid off in fines if we enforced that and other rules.  However, we cannot even ticket toll violaters as we allow them 10 days to pay the toll if they do not have money to pay it.  Considering that most of the unpaid toll cards I issue are repeat offenders especially one guy who had a stack a half an inch thick and admitted he is not paying the tolls until he is finished here with his business trip so he can use one stamp for all the tolls he refused to pay, we should be setting a warning.

The problem is no one enforces rules and even the cops themselves do not follow them.  In fact in Folkston, GA one cop used the center turn lane to merge and I thought that was not only odd, but I actually swerved away cause I though he was going to cut me off.  How was I supposed to know that he would do as others and use the turn lane for merging, so I assumed he was going in my lane, I moved over, which made him take notice of the Dade County plates and the fact I was alone, and though he could pull me over to give me a breath test for suspicious of DUI followed by a search because Miami is drug capital in the narrow minded redneck police minds. 

Quote from: roadman65 on June 08, 2016, 08:23:12 PM
I wish that here in Florida we would ticket drivers who misuse the center turn lane.

Why? What are they doing wrong? I understand if it's against the law, but it's by far the best way to turn left. Sure, it might scare you, but that's your fault, not theirs.

Quote from: jakeroot on June 08, 2016, 08:41:11 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on June 08, 2016, 08:23:12 PM
I wish that here in Florida we would ticket drivers who misuse the center turn lane.

Why? What are they doing wrong? I understand if it's against the law, but it's by far the best way to turn left. Sure, it might scare you, but that's your fault, not theirs.

Principal, not my fear, which BTW I have overcome.  It was not designed for that, but rogue people who saw the logic later on why waste a lane for only this, when demands require a safe haven to merge.  Like everything else, cops and everybody else went along with it just like the speed limit signs meaning 10 more than the actual number.

Quote from: roadman65 on June 08, 2016, 08:46:07 PM
It was not designed for that, but rogue people who saw the logic later on why waste a lane for only this, when demands require a safe haven to merge.  Like everything else, cops and everybody else went along with it just like the speed limit signs meaning 10 more than the actual number.

Maybe it's a new thing in Florida, but in Washington, from 1965 (http://goo.gl/Z5cBil) (PDF page 13), center lanes were designated as left-turn lanes as well as passing lanes (i.e. suicide lanes) (no idea if they could be used for merging). From 1969 (http://goo.gl/6tuDiz) (PDF page 56), center lanes (now called "two way left turn lanes") were/are designated as lanes for turning left, both out of and into the roadway (i.e. they could be used for merging as well as turning) (they could no longer be used as passing lanes).

My point being, at least in Washington, the rule hasn't changed for nearly 50 years...two-way left turn lanes have been used as merge lanes for a very long time.

The point of turning out makes sense, but I am not sure if FL wants it to be a merge or wait area.  I just think that with extra traffic using the roads its more of a safety concern than ever.

Plus the passing I do not think is legal anyway.  However, one guy today was using the lane to drive the same speed as the main lanes all to be in position to get into that left turn pocket.  Not exactly passing, but no reason for him to be in the lane at all.

I can find nothing in the Florida vehicle code about TWLTLs at all. Is there no law there stating how they're to be used (or not used)?

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2016, 09:43:31 PM
I can find nothing in the Florida vehicle code about TWLTLs at all. Is there no law there stating how they're to be used (or not used)?

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.089.html sort of deals with it, but only on a three-lane road.

Yeah, I read that one. Quite unlike South Carolina's code I cited above, though, which specifically mentions them. I'm not even sure the Florida code you cited can be said to apply, unless it were also legal to overtake in a TWLTL.

I do not have problems with changes of the times as much as having an issue with people not using the right channels to change them.

We have the power to change laws, and we should use that instead of just changing because the majority is going rogue.  If the people of South Plainfield, NJ, for example, would all complain to their borough reps to raise the ridiculous 25 mph boroughwide speed zone instead of just take it upon themselves to go above the posted speed limit, I am sure those in charge would make the higher speed limit law.  Instead now, we all have to hope that a cop won't ticket us for doing the morally right maximum speed, as their cops in the past were issuing tickets especially along Park Avenue.

IMO, center turn lanes are obsolete on roads with high counts, and should be just eliminated. On not so busy four lane roadways, they are Okay.

A lot of states tend to use "3 lane roadway" for some reason.

When I read these laws, they specifically don't say the center lane is for two-way left turning traffic.  They say the roadway is designed for 2 way traffic.  So the law isn't referring to a TWLTL, but rather a roadway where the center lane is specifically designated for one direction of travel, and/or the lane is marked for passing in either direction. 

In most cases, TWLTLs are accompanied by this regularity sign: https://goo.gl/maps/V6AnrkxL5sF2 , which eliminates the passing option, and only permits the turning option.

Pennsylvania: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=75&div=0&chpt=33:

QuoteThree lane roadways.--Upon a roadway which is divided into three lanes and provides for two-way movement of traffic, a vehicle shall not be driven in the center lane except when overtaking and passing another vehicle traveling in the same direction when the center lane is clear of traffic within a safe distance, or in preparation for making a left turn, or where the center lane is allocated exclusively to traffic moving in the same direction that the vehicle is proceeding and the allocation is designated by official traffic-control devices.

Nevada: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-484b.html

Quote2.  Upon a highway which has been divided into three clearly marked lanes, a vehicle must not be driven in the extreme left lane at any time. A vehicle on such a highway must not be driven in the center lane except:
      (a) When overtaking and passing another vehicle where the highway is clearly visible and the center lane is clear of traffic for a safe distance;
      (b) In preparation for a left turn; or
      (c) When the center lane is allocated exclusively to traffic moving in the direction in which the vehicle is proceeding and a sign is posted to give notice of such allocation.

New Jersey:

Quote39:4-88  Traffic on marked lanes.
c.Upon a highway which is divided into 3 lanes, a vehicle shall not be driven in the center lane except when overtaking or passing another vehicle or in preparation for a left turn or unless the center lane is at the time allocated for traffic moving in the direction the vehicle is proceeding and is signposted to give notice of that allocation.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.8359372,-83.2794946,3a,75y,4.31h,88.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVRGI1FiPJbLQtfRYlXhf3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Speaking of problems with center turn lanes, why is this one even here?  Notice how there is only one SB lane for Ashley Street, and two NB lanes.  Should not the turn lane be another SB lane?

Honestly, there is no conflict when turning into a center lane unless it is a full 4-way intersection in which case there ought to be dedicated left turn lanes, so no chance of conflicting traffic occurs. I do agree that the center turn lanes exist in many places where they shouldn't exist (long stretches of no left turns in one o even both directions). I assume that this was a lazy conversion of suicide (passing) center lanes into center turn lanes

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 09, 2016, 09:27:57 AM
A lot of states tend to use "3 lane roadway" for some reason.

When I read these laws, they specifically don't say the center lane is for two-way left turning traffic.  They say the roadway is designed for 2 way traffic.  So the law isn't referring to a TWLTL, but rather a roadway where the center lane is specifically designated for one direction of travel, and/or the lane is marked for passing in either direction. 

This makes me think that many of these laws were written for the days when more "suicide" passing lanes existed. Especially the way Pennsylvania and Nevada worded it regarding passing if the center lane is clear for a safe distance.

At least for Nevada, this assumption seems to be corroborated by the fact that the very next paragraph in the same statute specifically mentions the rules for TWLTLs:

Quote from: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-484b.html#NRS484BSec223
NRS 484B.223  Driving on highway having multiple marked lanes for traffic; additional penalty for violation committed in work zone.
...
2.  Upon a highway which has been divided into three clearly marked lanes, a vehicle must not be driven in the extreme left lane at any time. A vehicle on such a highway must not be driven in the center lane except:
      (a) When overtaking and passing another vehicle where the highway is clearly visible and the center lane is clear of traffic for a safe distance;
      (b) In preparation for a left turn; or
      (c) When the center lane is allocated exclusively to traffic moving in the direction in which the vehicle is proceeding and a sign is posted to give notice of such allocation.

3.  If a highway has been designed to provide a single center lane to be used only for turning by traffic moving in both directions, the following rules apply:
      (a) A vehicle may be driven in the center turn lane only for the purpose of making a left-hand turn onto or from the highway.
      (b) A vehicle must not travel more than 200 feet in a center turn lane before making a left-hand turn from the highway.
      (c) A vehicle must not travel more than 50 feet in a center turn lane after making a left-hand turn onto the highway before merging with traffic.

This discussion makes me think about my own practice using TWLTLs. I rarely use the TWLTL as a merge area, preferring to wait for an adequate gap on both sides of travel. I may have learned this way, even though the Nevada Driver's Handbook does mention both. I think this is how most people operate (at least around here), as I don't see the merge maneuver often.

People using it as a merge area tends to make me apprehensive (like, is that person turning in front of me, or will they actually wait), and I don't like to put that thought in other drivers' heads if I can avoid it. And then I do get annoyed when people start driving along in the TWLTL after turning onto the roadway...when are you going to merge over cause you only get 50 feet?!?!

Quote from: roadman65 on June 09, 2016, 09:48:34 AM
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.8359372,-83.2794946,3a,75y,4.31h,88.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVRGI1FiPJbLQtfRYlXhf3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Speaking of problems with center turn lanes, why is this one even here?  Notice how there is only one SB lane for Ashley Street, and two NB lanes.  Should not the turn lane be another SB lane?

Not sure if you buy this (I would hesitate), but seems like east side is more business heavy, so there may be more left turns from SB lane - and "dieting" lane always blocked with turning cars into officially turn-only lane may make some sense... 

Quote from: roadfro on June 09, 2016, 11:15:25 AM
People using it as a merge area tends to make me apprehensive (like, is that person turning in front of me, or will they actually wait), and I don't like to put that thought in other drivers' heads if I can avoid it. And then I do get annoyed when people start driving along in the TWLTL after turning onto the roadway...when are you going to merge over cause you only get 50 feet?!?!

Where I live, one of the four bounding roads of the neighborhood is a busy 4-lane road with a center turn lane. Believe me, *everyone* uses the center lane to turn onto it and even then there can be a backup on the road that exits the neighborhood onto this road. Imagine what it would be like if people didn't do this. Using one of the other two bounding roads to get around this involves going backwards *and* enduring a potentially longer backup at a traffic light with 4 separate left turn phases for each direction of traffic.

The two people that annoy me: Those that pull in at the last second, often still sticking out into the main travel lane, and those that will travel an eternity in the lane before they turn.

In other words, about 99% of the people using those lanes annoy me.

Quote from: roadman65 on June 09, 2016, 08:36:12 AM
IMO, center turn lanes are obsolete on roads with high counts, and should be just eliminated. On not so busy four lane roadways, they are Okay.

You'd rather have people block the lane to turn left and block the driveway to turn onto the road because there's never a gap with no traffic?  Or make it impossible to access the business (a business only accessible from one side of the road is a business accessible to very few customers because they can't go home from there or can't get there from home).

Quote from: roadfro on June 09, 2016, 11:15:25 AM
This discussion makes me think about my own practice using TWLTLs. I rarely use the TWLTL as a merge area, preferring to wait for an adequate gap on both sides of travel. I may have learned this way, even though the Nevada Driver's Handbook does mention both. I think this is how most people operate (at least around here), as I don't see the merge maneuver often.

What do you do if it's very rare for there to be a gap on both sides of travel?  It's very common around here for one to need to wait 5+ minutes if they were to try that (on some roads, it's flat out impossible).

If you refuse to use a TWLTL as a waiting area when turning left onto the main road, then good luck driving around Branson, MO.  The Strip is a two-lane road with a continuous TWLTL.  Traffic is non-stop, and this is the only reasonable way to turn left, or else you'll be waiting till kingdom come.

Quote from: roadfro on June 09, 2016, 11:15:25 AM
This makes me think that many of these laws were written for the days when more "suicide" passing lanes existed. Especially the way Pennsylvania and Nevada worded it regarding passing if the center lane is clear for a safe distance.

At least for Nevada, this assumption seems to be corroborated by the fact that the very next paragraph in the same statute specifically mentions the rules for TWLTLs:

Quote from: http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/nrs-484b.html#NRS484BSec223
NRS 484B.223  Driving on highway having multiple marked lanes for traffic; additional penalty for violation committed in work zone.
...
2.  Upon a highway which has been divided into three clearly marked lanes, a vehicle must not be driven in the extreme left lane at any time. A vehicle on such a highway must not be driven in the center lane except:
      (a) When overtaking and passing another vehicle where the highway is clearly visible and the center lane is clear of traffic for a safe distance;
      (b) In preparation for a left turn; or
      (c) When the center lane is allocated exclusively to traffic moving in the direction in which the vehicle is proceeding and a sign is posted to give notice of such allocation.

3.  If a highway has been designed to provide a single center lane to be used only for turning by traffic moving in both directions, the following rules apply:
      (a) A vehicle may be driven in the center turn lane only for the purpose of making a left-hand turn onto or from the highway.
      (b) A vehicle must not travel more than 200 feet in a center turn lane before making a left-hand turn from the highway.
      (c) A vehicle must not travel more than 50 feet in a center turn lane after making a left-hand turn onto the highway before merging with traffic.

I was thinking the same thing but didn't put enough brain power into it.  Thank you for confirming what I was already thinking.  This, then, leaves Florida with no law at all that specifically deals with TWLTLs.

Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2016, 01:06:10 PM

Quote from: roadman65 on June 09, 2016, 08:36:12 AM
IMO, center turn lanes are obsolete on roads with high counts, and should be just eliminated. On not so busy four lane roadways, they are Okay.

You'd rather have people block the lane to turn left and block the driveway to turn onto the road because there's never a gap with no traffic?  Or make it impossible to access the business (a business only accessible from one side of the road is a business accessible to very few customers because they can't go home from there or can't get there from home).

The latter would be preferable to the former, but I agree that neither one is ideal.  What I would actually prefer is that hard medians be used more at intersection approaches, preventing left-turning vehicles close to the intersection but permitting them farther downstream; if traffic is sufficiently heavy, then I would like to see existing hard medians lengthened.

There are places around here where you have to rely on the kindness of drivers simply to turn RIGHT.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 09, 2016, 11:51:23 AM
The two people that annoy me: Those that pull in at the last second, often still sticking out into the main travel lane, and those that will travel an eternity in the lane before they turn.

In other words, about 99% of the people using those lanes annoy me.

Also it happens in right turn pockets as well.  I hate when somebody signals first, approaches the turn pocket, and then turns from almost the main right lane and slows to almost a stop and leaves their vehicle half in the turn lane and their other half in the travel lanes.   Then you have some that accelerate in the pocket to pass people that are irrelevant to pass anyway as they then have to brake to make the turn.

I honestly think that they have no clue to what they are actually doing.  Speed blinds all, and turning right scares just as many.

Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2016, 01:06:10 PM

Quote from: roadfro on June 09, 2016, 11:15:25 AM
This discussion makes me think about my own practice using TWLTLs. I rarely use the TWLTL as a merge area, preferring to wait for an adequate gap on both sides of travel. I may have learned this way, even though the Nevada Driver's Handbook does mention both. I think this is how most people operate (at least around here), as I don't see the merge maneuver often.

What do you do if it's very rare for there to be a gap on both sides of travel?  It's very common around here for one to need to wait 5+ minutes if they were to try that (on some roads, it's flat out impossible).

I often find that if the traffic is busy in both directions, then traffic turning in off the roadway is also somewhat such that it makes it incredibly difficult to pull out to the TWLTL anyway. The gap likely comes from a break caused by signals...

That said, I will pull out to the TWLTL and wait to merge if necessary. I just don't do it often, because it's not viable in many circumstances.

In NY, the TWLT lane was strictly for turning OFF of the road, but at some point starting about 10 years ago, out-of-towners started using it as a merging lane. And even though it's been causing a ridiculous amount of head-on crashes on our very busy streets, our state has now adopted the more universal usage as a merging lane and has put up medians on the roads where the accidents have just become far to frequent and severe - much to the detriment to local business.

People just refuse to turn right and then turn around, or even exit a parking lot where there's a traffic light. It really amazes me. Eventually we're gonna be corralled like dairy cows because people just refuse to use some common sense.

Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2016, 07:17:21 PM
There are places around here where you have to rely on the kindness of drivers simply to turn RIGHT.

Coming out of NYSDOT's parking lot during the holidays? :D

Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2016, 07:17:21 PM
There are places around here where you have to rely on the kindness of drivers simply to turn RIGHT.

Take a drive in RI, MA or CT, no one lets you out until you edge your car so far into the road that cars can't get past and they're forced to let you in. One of the more strange driving norms that I've experienced.

Quote from: 8.Lug on June 10, 2016, 08:19:57 AM

Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2016, 07:17:21 PM
There are places around here where you have to rely on the kindness of drivers simply to turn RIGHT.

Take a drive in RI, MA or CT, no one lets you out until you edge your car so far into the road that cars can't get past and they're forced to let you in. One of the more strange driving norms that I've experienced.

More idiotic is what I experience on my commute on a four-lane at grade road with a suicide lane down the middle:  Someone oncoming is trying to turn left across the two lanes of traffic.  Some dummy in the left lane stops to let them turn in front of them, without consideration that someone may be flying down the right lane.  I'm surprised I don't see more accidents to do this misplaced sense of courtesy.

Quote from: Rothman on June 10, 2016, 08:26:33 AM

Quote from: 8.Lug on June 10, 2016, 08:19:57 AM

Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2016, 07:17:21 PM
There are places around here where you have to rely on the kindness of drivers simply to turn RIGHT.

Take a drive in RI, MA or CT, no one lets you out until you edge your car so far into the road that cars can't get past and they're forced to let you in. One of the more strange driving norms that I've experienced.

More idiotic is what I experience on my commute on a four-lane at grade road with a suicide lane down the middle:  Someone oncoming is trying to turn left across the two lanes of traffic.  Some dummy in the left lane stops to let them turn in front of them, without consideration that someone may be flying down the right lane.  I'm surprised I don't see more accidents to do this misplaced sense of courtesy.

I saw that on Wednesday at Exit 6. Someone in the right lane let someone in from the overpriced Mobil station without thinking about the left lane. Dumbass doing the turn into the EB-NB LT lane blocked traffic for an entire cycle.

Quote from: Rothman on June 10, 2016, 08:06:14 AM

Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2016, 07:17:21 PM
There are places around here where you have to rely on the kindness of drivers simply to turn RIGHT.

Coming out of NYSDOT's parking lot during the holidays? :D

Probably people realize nobody works there on holidays and think that ghost of a  car is caused by overshopping...

Quote from: Rothman on June 10, 2016, 08:26:33 AM
More idiotic is what I experience on my commute on a four-lane at grade road with a suicide lane down the middle:  Someone oncoming is trying to turn left across the two lanes of traffic.  Some dummy in the left lane stops to let them turn in front of them, without consideration that someone may be flying down the right lane.  I'm surprised I don't see more accidents to do this misplaced sense of courtesy.

That's quite common here in the Chicago suburbs, and it's usually a large vehicle that I can't see around. I even try to wave them forward because they're blocking the view of the other lane and they still won't move. I only attempt to make the turn if I know both lanes are stopped.

Quote from: Rothman on June 10, 2016, 08:06:14 AM

Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2016, 07:17:21 PM
There are places around here where you have to rely on the kindness of drivers simply to turn RIGHT.

Coming out of NYSDOT's parking lot during the holidays? :D

I never try and make a left across Wolf Road. It would take less time to watch paint dry.

Quote from: Rothman on June 10, 2016, 08:26:33 AM

Quote from: 8.Lug on June 10, 2016, 08:19:57 AM

Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2016, 07:17:21 PM
There are places around here where you have to rely on the kindness of drivers simply to turn RIGHT.

Take a drive in RI, MA or CT, no one lets you out until you edge your car so far into the road that cars can't get past and they're forced to let you in. One of the more strange driving norms that I've experienced.

More idiotic is what I experience on my commute on a four-lane at grade road with a suicide lane down the middle:  Someone oncoming is trying to turn left across the two lanes of traffic.  Some dummy in the left lane stops to let them turn in front of them, without consideration that someone may be flying down the right lane.  I'm surprised I don't see more accidents to do this misplaced sense of courtesy.

I had one who thought he was doing me a favor, by pausing to let me cross a busy road, but the problem was the lane next to him was wide open and cars were traveling at cruising speed in that particular lane.  He got mad at me cause I did not accept his invitation to cross, but he failed to realize the lane next to him had no stopped traffic.

Someone upstream mentioned raised medians -- there are several cases in Kentucky where "mountable medians" are used to divide four-lane roads, and they are not officially designated as TWLTLs, but are used as such.

Quote from: hbelkins on June 10, 2016, 03:49:58 PM
Someone upstream mentioned raised medians -- there are several cases in Kentucky where "mountable medians" are used to divide four-lane roads, and they are not officially designated as TWLTLs, but are used as such.

Illinois has a lot of these, and while not striped as such, they are always used, and intended to be used as TWLTLs.

Remnants of NY's old rule of these being used solely for turning left off the road. Photo taken a couple miles west of Rochester city limit on Rte 31.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthemunicipality.us%2FLeftTurnOnly.JPG&hash=022b9b93c6391600e1c689a6bd29ae83e01dffdb)

The TWLTL nearest my house sees a fair amount of driver misbehavior because it's so busy. Going eastbound, it serves a McDonald's and then three gas stations. Going westbound, it serves two banks and, most importantly, a road leading to a high school entrance. People going to the high school tend to get over into the TWLTL too early, almost a block in advance of the turn. I've pulled into the lane to turn left into the first gas station and then seen someone heading to the high school enter the TWLTL and go around me to my right–that is, drive on the wrong side of the road in order to reach the street leading to the school. Somewhere I think I have a dashcam video of that happening.

Of course, this isn't necessarily a problem with TWLTLs generally so much as it is with driver misbehavior coupled with, perhaps, this sort of lane not necessarily being the ideal setup when a large number of turning vehicles head to one particular street.

Street View linked below. I was waiting to turn where the Accord is waiting (same direction) and the guy heading to the high school had gotten into the TWLTL roughly where the large truck is down by the Shell station.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7840734,-77.131373,3a,75y,106.3h,72.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3GF6rwietAUco1rT2Ef_FQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Quote from: kalvado on June 10, 2016, 09:55:26 AM

Quote from: Rothman on June 10, 2016, 08:06:14 AM

Quote from: vdeane on June 09, 2016, 07:17:21 PM
There are places around here where you have to rely on the kindness of drivers simply to turn RIGHT.

Coming out of NYSDOT's parking lot during the holidays? :D

Probably people realize nobody works there on holidays and think that ghost of a  car is caused by overshopping...

Or anywhere on Wolf Road in the entire month of December.  Central and Western do it all year long, and Troy-Schenectady Road comes close.

Quote from: 8.Lug on June 10, 2016, 01:21:02 AM
In NY, the TWLT lane was strictly for turning OFF of the road, but at some point starting about 10 years ago, out-of-towners started using it as a merging lane. And even though it's been causing a ridiculous amount of head-on crashes on our very busy streets, our state has now adopted the more universal usage as a merging lane and has put up medians on the roads where the accidents have just become far to frequent and severe - much to the detriment to local business.

People just refuse to turn right and then turn around, or even exit a parking lot where there's a traffic light. It really amazes me. Eventually we're gonna be corralled like dairy cows because people just refuse to use some common sense.

When you use the left turn lane to turn left into traffic, you're supposed to wait for the near direction of vehicles to clear, enter the lane, STOP, and then wait for the other direction to clear, not use it as an acceleration lane.  If you're doing it right, and especially if you make sure nobody's entering the turn lane from the other direction, I'm not sure how a crash would result.  It's taught in Driver's Ed.

Quote from: vdeane on June 11, 2016, 05:20:12 PM
When you use the left turn lane to turn left into traffic, you're supposed to wait for the near direction of vehicles to clear, enter the lane, STOP, and then wait for the other direction to clear, not use it as an acceleration lane.  If you're doing it right, and especially if you make sure nobody's entering the turn lane from the other direction, I'm not sure how a crash would result.  It's taught in Driver's Ed.

For the most part, I think that's the best way to use the center lane. But, technically (at least in Washington), you can use the lane to merge; state law permits driving in the center lane for up to three hundred feet at a time, which is roughly the length of the white line in the image below.

The law in question:

Quote from: RCW 46.61.290, ~3
(c) Upon a roadway where a center lane has been provided by distinctive pavement markings for the use of vehicles turning left from either direction, no vehicles may turn left from any other lane. A vehicle shall not be driven in this center lane for the purpose of overtaking or passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction. No vehicle may travel further than three hundred feet within the lane. A signal, either electric or manual, for indicating a left turn movement, shall be made at least one hundred feet before the actual left turn movement is made.

Quote from: vdeane on June 11, 2016, 05:20:12 PM
When you use the left turn lane to turn left into traffic, you're supposed to wait for the near direction of vehicles to clear, enter the lane, STOP, and then wait for the other direction to clear, not use it as an acceleration lane.  If you're doing it right and especially if you make sure nobody's entering the turn lane from the other direction, I'm not sure how a crash would result.  It's taught in Driver's Ed.

You just clarified your own puzzlement.