Anyone know what I'm talking about here?
Many small streets, especially in residential suburbs, end in sort of a circle. This is what is usually referred to around here as a cul-de-sac. But sometimes, the end of the street is really more of a square or a rectangle. Most of these streets seem to be a little older, but not always. Why are some streets like this? I know sometimes the rectangular ending was once part of another road, but usually not.
I have a term for this: a square-de-sac. This is sort of a play on words: People who aren't cool (or cul as in cul-de-sac) are squares, man. Hence, a square-de-sac.
You mean like this?
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6660567,-86.5262418,3a,75y,33.33h,81.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjYO9YVrdEnlAyIian69p7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
If not, then the only thing that I can think of would be a case like this where the city turned the end of this street into a parking-lot-like area so the people in the neighborhood wouldn't have to worry about the road connecting to the other road in the distance:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6709635,-86.5331711,3a,75y,358.94h,84.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqxvdYWA6_7eKjFAjPCPgIQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
This is what I'm talking about:
https://goo.gl/maps/awGHS21v2LK2
I think that in some cases, this is due to the road ending at a T-intersection with another street that was platted but never built. So they built the intersection itself, but not the roadway extending to either side.
In your example, the view to the left looks like it might contain some available ROW, but that to the right has a house in it, so it's inconclusive.
Considering that "cul-de-sac" is French for "bottom of bag", your term is linguistically absurd and would make some language nerds (or ordinary French speakers) wince in pain.
I propose, as an alternative, "cul-de-boîte", or "bottom of box".
Quote from: Duke87 on July 13, 2016, 12:17:07 AM
Considering that "cul-de-sac" is French for "bottom of bag", your term is linguistically absurd and would make some language nerds (or ordinary French speakers) wince in pain.
I propose, as an alternative, "cul-de-boîte", or "bottom of box".
And why is it "cul-de-sac" but "Fond du Lac"?
(I've been everywhere, man, I've been everywhere...)
So basically you are talking about a dead end street...
Never seen this before. I've seen streets that dead end without turnarounds, but the road doesn't widen out at the end.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 13, 2016, 12:17:07 AM
Considering that "cul-de-sac" is French for "bottom of bag", your term is linguistically absurd and would make some language nerds (or ordinary French speakers) wince in pain.
I propose, as an alternative, "cul-de-boîte", or "bottom of box".
Nah - they'll get over it. I like 'square-de-sac'. I know I've seen them somewhere - gotta look.
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on July 13, 2016, 12:37:07 AM
So basically you are talking about a dead end street...
A dead end that sort of widens into a rectangle.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 13, 2016, 12:17:07 AM
Considering that "cul-de-sac" is French for "bottom of bag", your term is linguistically absurd and would make some language nerds (or ordinary French speakers) wince in pain.
I propose, as an alternative, "cul-de-boîte", or "bottom of box".
I thought it meant bottom of assbag?
From Wikipedia:
QuoteIn French, Catalan or in Occitan, "cul-de-sac" literally means "ass of a bag".
More of a "rectangle-de-sac" :)
I've been taking pictures of this street for over a month now for work, and I only just noticed today that the end isn't circular
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMUBZ4sd.jpg&hash=3185926896b7a5bb567436d4de2a2b3fe80c3e33)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F942mYYQ.jpg&hash=3e2c94f023227e6797a7b1e5803cfbd5ac8f4efa)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FsdJvMdT.jpg&hash=c0911a85b61f32fbcc3d2d0732cb77743b264fc2)
This is James St in Waterloo, ON
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/James+St,+Waterloo,+ON/@43.4723959,-80.524965,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x882bf40ae434e5ef:0x8244e2211ee336ab!8m2!3d43.472392!4d-80.5227763 (https://www.google.ca/maps/place/James+St,+Waterloo,+ON/@43.4723959,-80.524965,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x882bf40ae434e5ef:0x8244e2211ee336ab!8m2!3d43.472392!4d-80.5227763)
I wonder if this used to be a through street? It seems to line up reasonably well with Regina St to the south (where Regina St makes a strange bend to the east)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdXBOrBA.png&hash=dba687ce161f41205c3355ac81dbe81a08cb0703)
If I'm understanding correctly, we have some of these in Wichita along the 3rd Street canal.
Examples:
https://goo.gl/maps/rb5s2K4XhiT2
https://goo.gl/maps/7pM6kiAb2LQ2
The 3rd Street canal used to be just plain 3rd Street. In heavy rains, it doubled as an runoff into the main canal under I-135. If you were foolish enough to leave your car parallel parked on 3rd Street back then and the flood waters came, there was a good chance you'd find you car had floated away.
These are the default by me - perhaps 5% of nearby cul-de-sacs ends with a circular ending rather than two short stubs 90 degrees apart.
Perhaps it's a design feature that requires vehicles to make a full stop and reverse at the end of the street, rather than tearing ass through the cul-de-sac in a circle without stopping.
Quote from: bandit957 on July 12, 2016, 06:58:51 PM
Anyone know what I'm talking about here?
Many small streets, especially in residential suburbs, end in sort of a circle. This is what is usually referred to around here as a cul-de-sac. But sometimes, the end of the street is really more of a square or a rectangle. Most of these streets seem to be a little older, but not always. Why are some streets like this? I know sometimes the rectangular ending was once part of another road, but usually not.
I have a term for this: a square-de-sac. This is sort of a play on words: People who aren't cool (or cul as in cul-de-sac) are squares, man. Hence, a square-de-sac.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Radburn yet, as these types of culs-de-sac go at least that far back in American history, although, to be fair, the ones in Radburn aren't always regularly shaped. I think they go back even farther in British history, as they were used in English Garden Cities/Suburbs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the smooth, rounded culs-de-sac that many of us are accustomed to became popular until later, like around the time Levittown became the popular model for suburbs.
Rectangular culs-de-sac are also found in later townhouse developments, possibly because spacing constraints made rounded culs-de-sac impractical, or simply because traffic volumes didn't warrant them.
This thread reminds me of something I see every now and then, and I'm sure many of you have seen it before as well.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the Half-a-sac! :biggrin: https://goo.gl/maps/s1U4e3qXTVn (https://goo.gl/maps/s1U4e3qXTVn)
In the Las Vegas area, these are often called "hammerheads" by city planners. The idea is to have the effect of a cul-de-sac dead end, but the rectangular is designed to allow vehicles to turn around without needing the extra real estate of the large circle. In these applications, parking is usually prohibited in the hammerhead, in order to allow sufficient space for a fire truck to turn around via a three-point turn.
LG-D850
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 13, 2016, 07:17:49 PMI think they go back even farther in British history, as they were used in English Garden Cities/Suburbs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the smooth, rounded culs-de-sac that many of us are accustomed to became popular until later, like around the time Levittown became the popular model for suburbs.
This Metroland development (done for aesthetic reasons, I believe) (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6778106,-0.6004522,3a,75y,282.11h,68.09t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sj0cwN2k3R7cIDrkpmE9hDA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dj0cwN2k3R7cIDrkpmE9hDA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D96.296593%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656) is a similar vintage to garden cities. This is in Welwyn GC (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7982692,-0.2128796,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shKu0XIeg_navKiXWWi_b1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and is original, I think it was done to maximise housing around it, though they also have this where a path forms a loop, but the road ends before that (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7979469,-0.2081132,3a,75y,300.64h,67.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9duIo6Nq1sOLxQ2ww9o2Jw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and this 'hammerhead' (both ends being 'square-de-sacs') built at the same time (and all three approaches are used more than once).
(https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7985383,-0.2094652,3a,75y,111.91h,73.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHCWA0vZlPhBQqrqRPsgzfQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
QuoteRectangular culs-de-sac are also found in later townhouse developments, possibly because spacing constraints made rounded culs-de-sac impractical, or simply because traffic volumes didn't warrant them.
Spacing is a good one. Traffic volumes are surely going to be low in cul-de-sacs anyway - a key reason why they are built as dead ends rather than thru-roads is to reduce traffic (and many Victorian grids in the UK have been turned into mazes by putting blockades that let cyclists and pedestrians through, but not cars, to stop rat-running) - and I highly doubt that the circles were ever needed unless there's a school or something at the end and thus needing high capacity turning space. However I like Road Hog's safety argument:
Quote from: Road Hog on July 13, 2016, 07:04:25 PM
Perhaps it's a design feature that requires vehicles to make a full stop and reverse at the end of the street, rather than tearing ass through the cul-de-sac in a circle without stopping.
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on July 14, 2016, 02:54:32 AM
This thread reminds me of something I see every now and then, and I'm sure many of you have seen it before as well.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the Half-a-sac! :biggrin: https://goo.gl/maps/s1U4e3qXTVn (https://goo.gl/maps/s1U4e3qXTVn)
I was expecting this to be due to the right half being an older satellite image (i.e. from before that area was developed). But GSV confirms it really is a half-a-sac :)
This reminds of a guy I knew nicknamed "one nut" :-D
They're called hammerheads here in Cincinnati too. They're not necessarily platted but unbuilt streets, they just take up a lot less room, which is important especially in hilly terrain. Sometimes you see just a half-hammerhead, where you pull forward then back into what looks like a parking bay. That's common on hillside streets running parallel to the topography. https://goo.gl/maps/PnDk7jfTsam
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on July 13, 2016, 01:26:09 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 13, 2016, 12:17:07 AM
Considering that "cul-de-sac" is French for "bottom of bag", your term is linguistically absurd and would make some language nerds (or ordinary French speakers) wince in pain.
I propose, as an alternative, "cul-de-boîte", or "bottom of box".
I thought it meant bottom of assbag?
From Wikipedia:
QuoteIn French, Catalan or in Occitan, "cul-de-sac" literally means "ass of a bag".
Related to Spanish culo.
-------------
Cul-de-sac sounds nicer than dead end.. like Baton Rouge sounds better than Red Stick. Or Boca Raton sound fancier than Rat's Mouth
Here's what I've seen: Sometimes Phase One of a subdivision will be built and some of the streets will dead-end in a rectangle at the edge of the houses. Later, when Phase Two of the subdivision is built, they will then extend the streets.
Quote from: jwolfer on July 17, 2016, 11:44:31 PM
Cul-de-sac sounds nicer than dead end.. like Baton Rouge sounds better than Red Stick. Or Boca Raton sound fancier than Rat's Mouth
Mouse's mouth, actually. Rat is "rata."
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 21, 2016, 02:38:44 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on July 17, 2016, 11:44:31 PM
Cul-de-sac sounds nicer than dead end.. like Baton Rouge sounds better than Red Stick. Or Boca Raton sound fancier than Rat's Mouth
Mouse's mouth, actually. Rat is "rata."
Thanks for the correction.. idea is the same... Mouth of mouse is even better for Florida, although Boca Raton is quite a ways from Disney world