You travel miles on one particular roadway and you are following a specific control city and after so many hours of driving it changes over to another location with the original one not even mentioned anymore. I had it happen on I-70 in Missouri.
First you see St. Louis from as far back as the Kansas junction of I-435 with it being pull through on I-70 into KC. It appears at many places in Metro KC, but after you leave the metro area, the mileage signs on I-70 E Bound favor Columbia as control point. Then several miles later Columbia disappears completely with still a long ways to go to get to it.
Then Florida with its district politics has I-95 signed for Daytona Beach SB from Jacksonville into St. Johns County, but once you are in Flagler County its Miami all the way to Indian River County (Daytona is in Volusia County south of Flagler), where Miami leaves the guide signs and West Palm Beach (several miles before Miami) makes a permanent debut until its reached. Going NB you see Daytona Beach leaving West Palm all the way to just past Vero Beach and then no mention of it (except at FL 528 in Cocoa and Port St. John Pky. in Port St. John as well as the mileage sign at Exit 212 in Titusville) as Jacksonville is now king of the signs. Again from Vero to Daytona is still well over 135 miles of traveling.
I-10 leaving Tallahassee sees Lake City, but long before you reach Lake City no mention of it as now a new district and new control city as well making Jacksonville the place to sign the freeway still many miles out from Lake City.
In New Jersey you have New York City, after being mentioned in PA at three interchanges east of Bethlehem on both entry ramps and mileage signs (although I cannot confirm if PA 33 has a mileage sign east of it, but PA 412 and PA 611 do or did) being scarcely mentioned as mileage signs at the Delaware River, Exit 18, I-287, and the Union County Line all feature Newark as primary control city. US 22 at Still Valley, CR 513 in Clinton, and I-287 seem to only mention the Big Apple as a control city that through transiting I-78 E Bound motorist do not see. Heck the pull through at I-287 still reads "Newark" so from Easton to NYC itself there is no reminders in signage on the road proper that shows NYC.
Any other places (as I am sure there are) as I am curious to know who else is leading you to a specific city and long before you reach it, signs show another prominent place instead.
Along I-41 in Green Bay, Appleton is listed as the control city to the south until De Pere. In De Pere, Milwaukee is listed as the control city. I think this may be so traffic can use I-43 to travel to Milwaukee. De Pere is south of Wis 172, the most popular connector freeway with I-43. I'm guessing since WISDOT figured that people aren't going to drive north to catch Wis 172 at that point, they opted for the larger city of Milwaukee, even though Appleton is still 25 miles away at that point where the control cities switch.
Quote from: peterj920 on August 31, 2016, 10:44:58 AM
Along I-41 in Green Bay, Appleton is listed as the control city to the south until De Pere. In De Pere, Milwaukee is listed as the control city. I think this may be so traffic can use I-43 to travel to Milwaukee. De Pere is south of Wis 172, the most popular connector freeway with I-43. I'm guessing since WISDOT figured that people aren't going to drive north to catch Wis 172 at that point, they opted for the larger city of Milwaukee, even though Appleton is still 25 miles away at that point where the control cities switch.
Also along I-41 going northbound out of Milwaukee: Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, and Appleton are used interchangeably as the second line on mileage signs (first line is next exit, third line is Green Bay). Makes it kind of interesting if you have to get off at one of those cities without knowing the distance between them.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 31, 2016, 10:31:11 AM
In New Jersey you have New York City, after being mentioned in PA at three interchanges east of Bethlehem on both entry ramps and mileage signs...being scarcely mentioned as mileage signs at the Delaware River...
Likewise, New York (or New York City -
VIA PENNA) is listed as the eastbound control city on I-80 around Youngstown and disappears after crossing the PA line, to be replaced first by Mercer and then Clarion.
Quote from: briantroutman on August 31, 2016, 07:04:57 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 31, 2016, 10:31:11 AM
In New Jersey you have New York City, after being mentioned in PA at three interchanges east of Bethlehem on both entry ramps and mileage signs...being scarcely mentioned as mileage signs at the Delaware River...
Likewise, New York (or New York City - VIA PENNA) is listed as the eastbound control city on I-80 around Youngstown and disappears after crossing the PA line, to be replaced first by Mercer and then Clarion.
I remember seeing that I-78 EB from PA 412 was only signed for Easton. GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5934249,-75.3401439,3a,75y,20.43h,78.43t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syAOklwqfyQKx3FKvrHK8Mg!2e0!5s20130901T000000!7i13312!8i6656)is sort of outdated due to the PA 412 widening that I am unsure if it is complete. You are correct on it being on the mileage sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5987059,-75.3185288,3a,75y,103.88h,73.58t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw8pOTfUxJV0W18CxKV6dXg!2e0!5s20130901T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1) east of the interchange though. (2013 GSV as 2015 has the mileage sign blocked by a truck)
Bakersfield for I-5 northbound in Los Angeles, it reflects the original control city for its predecessor US 99, but now most signs that have been replaced now say 'Sacramento'.
The one California example I've seen mentioned in other threads, but worth bringing up again:
I-5's northbound control city throughout northern San Diego County (as well as I-805's for its last few miles northbound) is Los Angeles. But once one enters Orange County, Santa Ana is the northbound control (with no mention of LA) until that city is reached.
Quote from: national highway 1 on August 31, 2016, 07:29:55 PM
Bakersfield for I-5 northbound in Los Angeles, it reflects the original control city for its predecessor US 99, but now most signs that have been replaced now say 'Sacramento'.
Are there any signs for Bakersfield left along 5 north (or the roads feeding into 5 north, i.e. 405 and 170)? From what I remember on traveling all those roads, Sacramento has been the sole northbound control since the early 1980s with no indication of Bakersfield as a primary destination anywhere.
Quote from: TheStranger on August 31, 2016, 07:32:50 PM
The one California example I've seen mentioned in other threads, but worth bringing up again:
I-5's northbound control city throughout northern San Diego County (as well as I-805's for its last few miles northbound) is Los Angeles. But once one enters Orange County, Santa Ana is the northbound control (with no mention of LA) until that city is reached.
Quote from: national highway 1 on August 31, 2016, 07:29:55 PM
Bakersfield for I-5 northbound in Los Angeles, it reflects the original control city for its predecessor US 99, but now most signs that have been replaced now say 'Sacramento'.
Are there any signs for Bakersfield left along 5 north (or the roads feeding into 5 north, i.e. 405 and 170)? From what I remember on traveling all those roads, Sacramento has been the sole northbound control since the early 1980s with no indication of Bakersfield as a primary destination anywhere.
I don't believe there is a single Bakersfield control on I-5 or any metro LA freeways that lead to I-5. Every BGS that used to say Bakersfileld has been replaced with a Sacramento BGS. There could be signs from surface street that say Bakersfield instead of Sacramento, but I'm not aware of any.
Utica disappeared from I-481 in Syracuse some years ago.
California example I just discovered while driving back from Stockton early Sunday morning:
I-580's first control city westbound is San Francisco:
https://goo.gl/maps/LEui9fiM4LJ2 (at the I-5/I-580 split)
https://goo.gl/maps/LZzESVLUkLQ2 (off of Chrisman Road at the onramp for 132 west in Vernalis, which leads to 580 west)
https://goo.gl/maps/8eHYBUPd9vo
https://goo.gl/maps/nAa4J1HUksH2 (Mountain House Parkway onramp in Tracy)
But once one arrives in Alameda County, "San Francisco" is omitted in spots, i.e. at the junction with First Street/former Route 84 in Livermore:
https://goo.gl/maps/67MqaGzfVar
And at I-680 in Dublin:
https://goo.gl/maps/bUU37LXjhDq
"San Francisco" signage finally reappears at I-238 in Castro Valley. In fact, this is the very first pullthrough for San Francisco on I-580, a full 45 miles west of where the road started!
https://goo.gl/maps/h9wfaFqxdfp
South of Morristown, NJ, all major entrances onto I-287 Southbound mention Somerville as the control city. Once you're on 287, though, there are no pull-throughs for 15 miles, after which the all pull-throughs show Perth Amboy. The only time Somerville is mentioned is at the actual exit, 5 miles after that. Meanwhile, on 287 North, there is a single pull-through that randomly lists Pompton Lakes as a second control city after Morristown. It is never mentioned again until the actual exit, 33 miles later (Mahwah appears as the second, and later first, control city instead)
The New York (City) on I-80 East is a great example, as mentioned earlier. Here are a couple of more:
I-70 East @ I-15 in Cove Fort, Utah: Denver is mentioned at the interchange for I-70 East, but once on I-70, Denver is rarely mentioned on any mileage sign or Entrance Ramp sign until Grand Junction, CO -- about 250 miles away.
I-77 South in Canton, OH: There are some signs that will mention Cambridge (the I-77/I-70 interchange city), but once you leave Canton, most signage will list Marietta (at the OH/WV border) as the control city.
Speaking of I-70, and sort of a "cheat" nowadays:
I-70 West between Columbus and Dayton as well as parts of I-270 on the west side of Columbus: There are still some older Indianapolis BGSs that have yet to be converted to Dayton leading to I-70 West ramps, but most mainline 70 signs have converted to the Dayton control city.
Quote from: Buffaboy on September 05, 2016, 12:28:14 AM
Utica disappeared from I-481 in Syracuse some years ago.
I don't ever remember Utica being listed on I-481 since the construction of the roadway between the Thruway to the northern interchange with I-81/NY 481. Utica was added to I-81 Exit 29 S at that time (I'm thinking it was 1985 or 1986) on a supplemental destination sign but there was never another mention of Utica until you passed through the Thruway tolls on the overhead sign directing traffic to I-90 East. That has since been replaced with Albany. Guide signs for Exit 6 said only I-90 Thruway until the latest sign project, which added Albany - Buffalo.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 31, 2016, 10:31:11 AM
You travel miles on one particular roadway and you are following a specific control city and after so many hours of driving it changes over to another location with the original one not even mentioned anymore. I had it happen on I-70 in Missouri.
First you see St. Louis from as far back as the Kansas junction of I-435 with it being pull through on I-70 into KC. It appears at many places in Metro KC, but after you leave the metro area, the mileage signs on I-70 E Bound favor Columbia as control point. Then several miles later Columbia disappears completely with still a long ways to go to get to it.
Missouri has always been hit-and-miss on control cities. I-70, I-44 and I-55 frequently drop St. Louis in favor of an intermediate city (Springfield, Rolla, Cape Girardeau). It forces you to do some mental math whenever you do see a St. Louis mileage sign and add it to the next milepost.
I-78 has a control city of Allentown, at I-78/I-81 split. However, that is the only time it is mentioned on overhead signs. The next overhead sign at exit 51 has a control city of New Jersey. The next freeway junction at exit 53 has the control city of Bethlehem. The only mention that Allentown is the control city is on mileage signs and intersecting roads.
Coming west(/north) from Brigham City, UT, the control city for I-84 is Boise. Once you cross into Idaho, the control city becomes Burley. This is noticeable on both the mileage distance signs and the control city signs at onramps (in my limited experience). I don't think Boise becomes the primary control city again until after Twin Falls (though I think it appears again on mileage signs west of Burley).
I-95 southbound has Richmond, VA listed as a control city on pretty much every exit as far north as when I-95 joins the Capital Beltway at the College Park interchange in Maryland.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0314811,-76.9472184,3a,75y,232.31h,77.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHm7zJZT1fewg_wOKPEPDJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
There is however on peculiar exception and that is at the VA-123/I-95 interchange in Woodbridge, VA where instead Fredricksburg is the southbound control city without any mention at all of Richmond.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6728539,-77.2539729,3a,60y,164.32h,85.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV-mUxPJUfo-HJr0oCyzTnQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6694385,-77.2525111,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbgmnvgIWZH7tKpZBCDAo3g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I like the idea of Fredricksburg being listed as a control city on I-95 as it's one of the fastest growing areas in the state, a popular destination, and represents pretty much the halfway point between DC and Richmond. Perhaps 10 or 20 years from now it would make sense to put both Fredricksburg and Richmond as control cities south of the Capital Beltway.
https://goo.gl/maps/uaH3jc1ejnWm6fRVA
Notice Wall is now the SB control city here for NJ Route 34. Originally both Asbury Park and Brielle were used here at this location. NJDOT over the course of time has been eliminating indirect cities on many guide signs and signing more direct locations instead.
I understand the addition of Wall as Route 34 terminates there. Asbury Park is no longer the popular beach community it once was do to demographic changes so I can also understand why it was removed, but Brielle always irked me as it's right next to Point Pleasant, which always been more prominent than the aforementioned to motorists.
Still I would rather see Point Pleasant over Wall as Route 34 defaults into Route 35 at its terminus which then leads to Point Pleasant, a well popular beach resort known to many visitors.
From the Port of Long Beach all the way up to just before the 60, the 710's northbound control city is Pasadena, yet just past the 60, when you are still many miles from Pasadena and the way to get there is very much uncertain, the northbound control city on BGS's for the 710 north unceremoniously changes to Valley Blvd, with no further mention of Pasadena except for one reference at the gore point on the 10 interchange lanes that to get to Pasadena you need to transition to the 10 east. And because Pasadena disappears from signs several miles before that, there is no advance warning that you need to be over to the far right and get on the 10 east to get to Pasadena. And that right lane tends to back up quite a bit.
And once you're on the 10 east, there is no further mention of Pasadena. There used to be a sign directing you to use Fremont Ave, but it's long been gone.
If you take the 710 all the way to its terminus at Valley Blvd, there are no signs there telling you which direction to go on Valley Blvd to get closer to Pasadena.
Since this got revived, Rochester being signed from I-190 (https://goo.gl/maps/jbPu5YfzcvhoksyC8) (!) despite not being used on I-290 or I-90 is a classic disappearing act. If you were new to the area you could literally get lost trying to follow that sign to Rochester!
Tulsa on I-44 disappears as it's signed from St. Louis westward, then Rolla appears. However unlike I-290 where one must switch to I-90 for Albany, at least I-44 remains on course to Tulsa through Rolla, Springfield, and Joplin where it reappears once again without need to leave freeway for another.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:07:20 PM
Tulsa on I-44 disappears as it's signed from St. Louis westward, then Rolla appears. However unlike I-290 where one must switch to I-90 for Albany, at least I-44 remains on course to Tulsa through Rolla, Springfield, and Joplin where it reappears once again without need to leave freeway for another.
I-270 SB also posts Tulsa as a control city, except it's inconsistent there, and disappears frequently. Besides one sign at the US 40/61 interchange, I think the rest have been removed in favor of Memphis only.
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 30, 2022, 12:19:18 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:07:20 PM
Tulsa on I-44 disappears as it's signed from St. Louis westward, then Rolla appears. However unlike I-290 where one must switch to I-90 for Albany, at least I-44 remains on course to Tulsa through Rolla, Springfield, and Joplin where it reappears once again without need to leave freeway for another.
I-270 SB also posts Tulsa as a control city, except it's inconsistent there, and disappears frequently. Besides one sign at the US 40/61 interchange, I think the rest have been removed in favor of Memphis only.
Then Chicago on I-70 NB disappears once in IL for Indy. That IMO is MDOTs fault as they should be using Indy as well as most traffic using it are through I-70 traffic. South of I-70 KC should be used, but at US 40/61 I think an exception should be made for Maryland Heights ( as I-64 goes there from Wentzville).
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 30, 2022, 12:19:18 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:07:20 PM
Tulsa on I-44 disappears as it's signed from St. Louis westward, then Rolla appears. However unlike I-290 where one must switch to I-90 for Albany, at least I-44 remains on course to Tulsa through Rolla, Springfield, and Joplin where it reappears once again without need to leave freeway for another.
I-270 SB also posts Tulsa as a control city, except it's inconsistent there, and disappears frequently. Besides one sign at the US 40/61 interchange, I think the rest have been removed in favor of Memphis only.
As I've said time and again, the sensible control city choice is Springfield, but that is ambiguous in St Louis as it could also refer to Springfield IL. That is most likely why Tulsa is used in St Louis, but then disappears until once you're past Joplin–it very unambiguously communicates "this road goes southwest".
Rolla shouldn't be used at all in my opinion. Nobody cares about Rolla.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:43:55 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 30, 2022, 12:19:18 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:07:20 PM
Tulsa on I-44 disappears as it's signed from St. Louis westward, then Rolla appears. However unlike I-290 where one must switch to I-90 for Albany, at least I-44 remains on course to Tulsa through Rolla, Springfield, and Joplin where it reappears once again without need to leave freeway for another.
I-270 SB also posts Tulsa as a control city, except it's inconsistent there, and disappears frequently. Besides one sign at the US 40/61 interchange, I think the rest have been removed in favor of Memphis only.
Then Chicago on I-70 NB disappears once in IL for Indy. That IMO is MDOTs fault as they should be using Indy as well as most traffic using it are through I-70 traffic. South of I-70 KC should be used, but at US 40/61 I think an exception should be made for Maryland Heights ( as I-64 goes there from Wentzville).
Chicago on
I-70 northbound? And how is that
Michigan's fault?
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:43:55 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 30, 2022, 12:19:18 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:07:20 PM
Tulsa on I-44 disappears as it's signed from St. Louis westward, then Rolla appears. However unlike I-290 where one must switch to I-90 for Albany, at least I-44 remains on course to Tulsa through Rolla, Springfield, and Joplin where it reappears once again without need to leave freeway for another.
I-270 SB also posts Tulsa as a control city, except it's inconsistent there, and disappears frequently. Besides one sign at the US 40/61 interchange, I think the rest have been removed in favor of Memphis only.
Then Chicago on I-270 NBEB disappears once in IL for Indy. That IMO is MoDOT's fault as they should be using Indy as well as most traffic using it are through I-70 traffic. SouthWest of I-55/I-70 KC should be used, but at US 40/61 I think an exception should be made for Maryland Heights ( as I-364 goes there from Wentzville).
Tried to read through all the possible errors here (in bold). And for "Maryland Heights" , idk where you would even use that on. Doesn't match the theme of larger cities as controls on I-270. And the 270/364 interchange is in Maryland Heights.
Quote from: Road Hog on December 20, 2016, 08:07:59 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 31, 2016, 10:31:11 AM
You travel miles on one particular roadway and you are following a specific control city and after so many hours of driving it changes over to another location with the original one not even mentioned anymore. I had it happen on I-70 in Missouri.
First you see St. Louis from as far back as the Kansas junction of I-435 with it being pull through on I-70 into KC. It appears at many places in Metro KC, but after you leave the metro area, the mileage signs on I-70 E Bound favor Columbia as control point. Then several miles later Columbia disappears completely with still a long ways to go to get to it.
Missouri has always been hit-and-miss on control cities. I-70, I-44 and I-55 frequently drop St. Louis in favor of an intermediate city (Springfield, Rolla, Cape Girardeau). It forces you to do some mental math whenever you do see a St. Louis mileage sign and add it to the next milepost.
As someone who has driven across Missouri many, many times on I-70, here's my mental shortcut for St. Louis: just subtract the current mile marker from 250.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:07:20 PM
Rolla shouldn't be used at all in my opinion. Nobody cares about Rolla.
Except, perhaps, Missouri S&T students heading back there after a trip to St. Louis for a Cardinals game, or any other reason...
Quote from: KCRoadFan on March 30, 2022, 09:39:54 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 20, 2016, 08:07:59 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 31, 2016, 10:31:11 AM
You travel miles on one particular roadway and you are following a specific control city and after so many hours of driving it changes over to another location with the original one not even mentioned anymore. I had it happen on I-70 in Missouri.
First you see St. Louis from as far back as the Kansas junction of I-435 with it being pull through on I-70 into KC. It appears at many places in Metro KC, but after you leave the metro area, the mileage signs on I-70 E Bound favor Columbia as control point. Then several miles later Columbia disappears completely with still a long ways to go to get to it.
Missouri has always been hit-and-miss on control cities. I-70, I-44 and I-55 frequently drop St. Louis in favor of an intermediate city (Springfield, Rolla, Cape Girardeau). It forces you to do some mental math whenever you do see a St. Louis mileage sign and add it to the next milepost.
As someone who has driven across Missouri many, many times on I-70, here's my mental shortcut for St. Louis: just subtract the current mile marker from 250.
And do the same from 200 coming up I-55.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on March 30, 2022, 09:39:54 PM
As someone who has driven across Missouri many, many times on I-70, here's my mental shortcut for St. Louis: just subtract the current mile marker from 250.
The subtract from 250 rule also works for I-71 in OH, and probably some other highways as well. I-65 IN is close, it's 260 mi in the state.
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 30, 2022, 09:59:38 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on March 30, 2022, 09:39:54 PM
As someone who has driven across Missouri many, many times on I-70, here's my mental shortcut for St. Louis: just subtract the current mile marker from 250.
The subtract from 250 rule also works for I-71 in OH, and probably some other highways as well. I-65 IN is close, it's 260 mi in the state.
And along I-70 in Ohio, for the distance to Columbus, subtract from 100 if coming from the west, and subtract 100 from the mile marker if approaching from the east.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on March 30, 2022, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:07:20 PM
Rolla shouldn't be used at all in my opinion. Nobody cares about Rolla.
Except, perhaps, Missouri S&T students heading back there after a trip to St. Louis for a Cardinals game, or any other reason...
If we are going to use colleges as a reason to set a control city, Springfield (which would replace Rolla as a WB control city between Rolla and St. Louis) should be used instead. It has Missouri State University (MSU), in addition to the smaller, private Drury and Evangel Universities.
Missouri S&T, as of fall 2020, had just over 7.6k students enrolled, a significant percentage of the town's total population, yet a fraction of MSU's enrollment. That said, why I have "or any other reason" in bold is that a few of my friends (none of which care for the Cardinals) will be attending Missouri S&T, and as such I'll likely be visiting Rolla on a regular basis, starting in a few months.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on March 30, 2022, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on March 30, 2022, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:07:20 PM
Rolla shouldn't be used at all in my opinion. Nobody cares about Rolla.
Except, perhaps, Missouri S&T students heading back there after a trip to St. Louis for a Cardinals game, or any other reason...
If we are going to use colleges as a reason to set a control city, Springfield (which would replace Rolla as a WB control city between Rolla and St. Louis) should be used instead. It has Missouri State University (MSU), in addition to the smaller, private Drury and Evangel Universities.
Missouri S&T, as of fall 2020, had just over 7.6k students enrolled, a significant percentage of the town's total population, yet a fraction of MSU's enrollment. That said, why I have "or any other reason" in bold is that a few of my friends (none of which care for the Cardinals) will be attending Missouri S&T, and as such I'll likely be visiting Rolla on a regular basis, starting in a few months.
Springfield isn't used in the St Louis area due to proximity to Springfield, IL; that's one reason why Tulsa is used instead in the first place. As for when to switch out Tulsa to Springfield, probably in Rolla, if we're getting rid of Rolla.
As for MoDOT's constant switching of control cities, I hate it too. They have been using Wentzville as an I-70 WB control city in St Charles in new sign installations (most of them are full APL signs, which imo are a waste and partial APLs should've been used, but that's another topic), after it has all been Kansas City in the past, and KC is still used in St Louis County.
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 30, 2022, 10:17:33 PM
Quote from: ozarkman417 on March 30, 2022, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on March 30, 2022, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:07:20 PM
Rolla shouldn't be used at all in my opinion. Nobody cares about Rolla.
Except, perhaps, Missouri S&T students heading back there after a trip to St. Louis for a Cardinals game, or any other reason...
If we are going to use colleges as a reason to set a control city, Springfield (which would replace Rolla as a WB control city between Rolla and St. Louis) should be used instead. It has Missouri State University (MSU), in addition to the smaller, private Drury and Evangel Universities.
Missouri S&T, as of fall 2020, had just over 7.6k students enrolled, a significant percentage of the town's total population, yet a fraction of MSU's enrollment. That said, why I have "or any other reason" in bold is that a few of my friends (none of which care for the Cardinals) will be attending Missouri S&T, and as such I'll likely be visiting Rolla on a regular basis, starting in a few months.
Springfield isn't used in the St Louis area due to proximity to Springfield, IL; that's one reason why Tulsa is used instead in the first place. As for when to switch out Tulsa to Springfield, probably in Rolla, if we're getting rid of Rolla.
As for MoDOT's constant switching of control cities, I hate it too. They have been using Wentzville as an I-70 WB control city in St Charles in new sign installations (most of them are full APL signs, which imo are a waste and partial APLs should've been used, but that's another topic), after it has all been Kansas City in the past, and KC is still used in St Louis County.
MoDOT could use a Postal style abbreviation (like it already does on I-270 as it approaches I-44).. until a certain exit. Besides, MoDOT doesn't use Rolla until at MO 141 anyways (which is where Springfield would take over at the very earliest). I personally haven't seen Springfield, IL be used as a control city within a (un)reasonable distance of that point given how far west of I-55 MO 141 at I-44 is.
At the risk of stirring up another "this shouldn't be a control city in the first place" argument, I'll mention northbound I-275 in Michigan. For all of its length, its control city is Flint. When westbound I-96 joins it, Lansing is added as a second control. But at the I-696 interchange where I-275 terminates, Flint disappears and Lansing is shown as the only control for I-96 west. At least from I-275 (not the other legs of the interchange), Flint should still be a second control city. (There is a single supplemental "Flint / Follow I-96 West" sign but IMO that's not sufficient.)
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on March 30, 2022, 03:24:16 AM
From the Port of Long Beach all the way up to just before the 60, the 710's northbound control city is Pasadena, yet just past the 60, when you are still many miles from Pasadena and the way to get there is very much uncertain, the northbound control city on BGS's for the 710 north unceremoniously changes to Valley Blvd, with no further mention of Pasadena except for one reference at the gore point on the 10 interchange lanes that to get to Pasadena you need to transition to the 10 east. And because Pasadena disappears from signs several miles before that, there is no advance warning that you need to be over to the far right and get on the 10 east to get to Pasadena. And that right lane tends to back up quite a bit.
And once you're on the 10 east, there is no further mention of Pasadena. There used to be a sign directing you to use Fremont Ave, but it's long been gone.
If you take the 710 all the way to its terminus at Valley Blvd, there are no signs there telling you which direction to go on Valley Blvd to get closer to Pasadena.
I know I mentioned this on some relevant thread in Pacific Southwest, but I believe a lot of that is purposeful. Since no truck-friendly freeway route exists to Pasadena, they specifically don't sign a way to get there, so that no one surface street becomes the preferred way or reaching Pasadena. Caltrans does not want the blame for directing an interstate's worth of traffic onto any one given surface street.
The most direct ways of reaching Pasadena are either 710 N to 10 E to Fremont Ave N or 710 N to Valley Blvd E to Fremont Ave N. But depending upon where in Pasadena you are heading to, another surface street parallel to Fremont (like Atlantic or Garfield) may be better for you. Also, other ways of getting into the Pasadena general area could involve taking I-5 north to either CA-110 (but no trucks allowed) or CA-2 (great freeway but heading to Pasadena would involve a lot of backtracking this way).
FWIW, Caltrans does provide one additional piece of Pasadena signage. As you mentioned following the control city will lead you to I-10 east. While many would probably take Fremont or Atlantic (especially if headed to Old Town Pasadena), it seems that Caltrans recommends Pasadena traffic to take Rosemead Blvd.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0720178,-118.0821883,3a,37.5y,100.7h,84.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOSin8njj5jlWAy89B9vjMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I think this is done because Rosemead was/is state highway CA-19, so at least in some respects better able to handle heavier traffic. But it leads to the very eastern edge of Pasadena.
Regardless of all of this, most people seem to be using Fremont. Once you exit I-10 at Fremont, you get a helpful sign for South Pasadena, but it's not on the freeway itself. Then, unfortunately the next sign only tells you Monterey Park or Alhambra, with no specific guidance to South Pasadena. The offramp's configuration is confusing enough that the signage shoud be less confuising and more consistent.
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 30, 2022, 10:17:33 PM
Quote from: ozarkman417 on March 30, 2022, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on March 30, 2022, 09:44:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 30, 2022, 12:07:20 PM
Rolla shouldn't be used at all in my opinion. Nobody cares about Rolla.
Except, perhaps, Missouri S&T students heading back there after a trip to St. Louis for a Cardinals game, or any other reason...
If we are going to use colleges as a reason to set a control city, Springfield (which would replace Rolla as a WB control city between Rolla and St. Louis) should be used instead. It has Missouri State University (MSU), in addition to the smaller, private Drury and Evangel Universities.
Missouri S&T, as of fall 2020, had just over 7.6k students enrolled, a significant percentage of the town's total population, yet a fraction of MSU's enrollment. That said, why I have "or any other reason" in bold is that a few of my friends (none of which care for the Cardinals) will be attending Missouri S&T, and as such I'll likely be visiting Rolla on a regular basis, starting in a few months.
Springfield isn't used in the St Louis area due to proximity to Springfield, IL; that's one reason why Tulsa is used instead in the first place. As for when to switch out Tulsa to Springfield, probably in Rolla, if we're getting rid of Rolla.
As for MoDOT's constant switching of control cities, I hate it too. They have been using Wentzville as an I-70 WB control city in St Charles in new sign installations (most of them are full APL signs, which imo are a waste and partial APLs should've been used, but that's another topic), after it has all been Kansas City in the past, and KC is still used in St Louis County.
Copy InDOT and use the state name in addition. That is why Columbus, OH was used for I-70 east from Indy to avoid confusion with nearby Columbus, Indiana.
Then Jackson, Miss is used for I-55 south out of Memphis, as I-40 east also heads to Jackson, Tennessee from Memphis.
https://goo.gl/maps/ypMxWAv1wBYUAYeJ8
Lewistown for US 322 west from Harrisburg now got rewritten to State College.
https://goo.gl/maps/oRPyznnDX7z8vvj5A
https://www.aaroads.com/pa/083/i-083_nb_exit_046_06.jpg