Wisconsin's county highway lettering system is truly unique, but I'm finding that the lettering is even more interesting.
For the longest time, there wasn't any County L, but the ones that were designated were all former numbered highways. (Wis 24, Wis 26, US 51). County LL was once US 141. Guess for some reason counties did not like the letter L.
Triple letters are seldomly used, but Fond Du Lac County seems to like them. (HHH, VVV, OOO). Despite the rarity, there are 2 County HHH.
GV seems to be an odd combination, but there are 2 County GV's within 25 miles (Brown, Outagamie). Brown was first, and was supposed to indicate that it went to County G and V. Outagamie was because it went into Greenville.
For the bottom of the alphabet, X seems to be a popular letter.
PP also seems to be a popular lower of the alphabet double letter combination.
County A in many counties seems to travel through the oldest settlements of a county since it was most likely the first letter used when designating a county highway.
Brown County seems to have the most random designations recently (KB, MW, VK, RK,) Despite those randoms, county roads starting with I are county roads that do not end at another highway. EB and EA are parralel arterials to I-41 and I-43.
Any other interesting thoughts on lettering?
I have to go CTH PP.
CTH EW.
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2016, 04:39:48 AM
Triple letters are seldomly used, but Fond Du Lac County seems to like them. (HHH, VVV, OOO). Despite the rarity, there are 2 County HHH.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Triple_H_WWE_Champion_2008.jpg)(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg01.deviantart.net%2F99da%2Fi%2F2009%2F125%2Fc%2F3%2Ftriple_h_entrance_by_kammerice.jpg&hash=8832e58c501828717bf0c26a9af5a457ae13c0d9)
Yes there are.
<---
'L' and 'R' were not used until fairly recently because in the earlier days of automobility, shields with the letters 'L' and 'R' were used instead of arrows to mark routing turns.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2016, 11:14:17 AM
'L' and 'R' were not used until fairly recently because in the earlier days of automobility, shields with the letters 'L' and 'R' were used instead of arrows to mark routing turns.
Mike
Hwy L in Kenosha County is not a fmr state highway I highly doubt the one in Washburn County is either. Hwy R in Waukesha County is not a fmr state Highway. Hwy R in Dodge County is it was once WI-109. Interesting that L is one of the 5 letters Missouri doesn't use and R is one of the two they don;t use much.. Waukesha County has a Hwy LO but that was chosen to honor Loyd Owens. It;s also worth noting that A is the only letter that does not exist in Waukesha County. Neither A or AA or any double letter combination with A is used at all in Waukesha County.
Quote from: dvferyance on September 01, 2016, 12:50:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2016, 11:14:17 AM
'L' and 'R' were not used until fairly recently because in the earlier days of automobility, shields with the letters 'L' and 'R' were used instead of arrows to mark routing turns.
Mike
Hwy L in Kenosha County is not a fmr state highway I highly doubt the one in Washburn County is either. Hwy R in Waukesha County is not a fmr state Highway. Hwy R in Dodge County is it was once WI-109. Interesting that L is one of the 5 letters Missouri doesn't use and R is one of the two they don;t use much.. Waukesha County has a Hwy LO but that was chosen to honor Loyd Owens. It;s also worth noting that A is the only letter that does not exist in Waukesha County. Neither A or AA or any double letter combination with A is used at all in Waukesha County.
Waukesha County A used to be what is now Waukesha County L - and was WI-24 in between.
Waukesha County AA used to be on what is now Maple Avenue between County L just south of Big Bend, and WI-83 just south of Mukwonago.
Where is County R currently in Waukesha County?
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2016, 02:13:22 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on September 01, 2016, 12:50:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2016, 11:14:17 AM
'L' and 'R' were not used until fairly recently because in the earlier days of automobility, shields with the letters 'L' and 'R' were used instead of arrows to mark routing turns.
Mike
Hwy L in Kenosha County is not a fmr state highway I highly doubt the one in Washburn County is either. Hwy R in Waukesha County is not a fmr state Highway. Hwy R in Dodge County is it was once WI-109. Interesting that L is one of the 5 letters Missouri doesn't use and R is one of the two they don;t use much.. Waukesha County has a Hwy LO but that was chosen to honor Loyd Owens. It;s also worth noting that A is the only letter that does not exist in Waukesha County. Neither A or AA or any double letter combination with A is used at all in Waukesha County.
Waukesha County A used to be what is now Waukesha County L - and was WI-24 in between.
Waukesha County AA used to be on what is now Maple Avenue between County L just south of Big Bend, and WI-83 just south of Mukwonago.
Where is County R currently in Waukesha County?
It runs between WI-16 and Nashotah Park between CR-C and CR-P. My point was the letter A is not currently used in Waukesha County. It was once used for the short stretch of what is now WI-164 between WI-59 and US-18 until the 80's. One thing I just noticed the other day is that Jefferson County only uses single letters not sure if any other county does that.
Quote from: dvferyance on September 01, 2016, 02:22:27 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2016, 02:13:22 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on September 01, 2016, 12:50:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2016, 11:14:17 AM
'L' and 'R' were not used until fairly recently because in the earlier days of automobility, shields with the letters 'L' and 'R' were used instead of arrows to mark routing turns.
Mike
Hwy L in Kenosha County is not a fmr state highway I highly doubt the one in Washburn County is either. Hwy R in Waukesha County is not a fmr state Highway. Hwy R in Dodge County is it was once WI-109. Interesting that L is one of the 5 letters Missouri doesn't use and R is one of the two they don;t use much.. Waukesha County has a Hwy LO but that was chosen to honor Loyd Owens. It;s also worth noting that A is the only letter that does not exist in Waukesha County. Neither A or AA or any double letter combination with A is used at all in Waukesha County.
Waukesha County A used to be what is now Waukesha County L - and was WI-24 in between.
Waukesha County AA used to be on what is now Maple Avenue between County L just south of Big Bend, and WI-83 just south of Mukwonago.
Where is County R currently in Waukesha County?
It runs between WI-16 and Nashotah Park between CR-C and CR-P. My point was the letter A is not currently used in Waukesha County. It was once used for the short stretch of what is now WI-164 between WI-59 and US-18 until the 80's. One thing I just noticed the other day is that Jefferson County only uses single letters not sure if any other county does that.
Thank you on the County R thing. I was just providing some history regarding County A.
Jefferson County does have a couple double letters.
CW, which heads into Watertown from the east
SC, which runs north from WI-16 southeast of Watertown.
CI, which is the old WI-106 west of WI-67.
All of these are extensions of highways that exist in other counties though.
Quote from: dvferyance on September 01, 2016, 12:50:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2016, 11:14:17 AM
'L' and 'R' were not used until fairly recently because in the earlier days of automobility, shields with the letters 'L' and 'R' were used instead of arrows to mark routing turns.
Mike
Hwy L in Kenosha County is not a fmr state highway I highly doubt the one in Washburn County is either. Hwy R in Waukesha County is not a fmr state Highway.
Has nothing to do with whether or not it was a former state highway.
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 01, 2016, 07:24:07 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on September 01, 2016, 12:50:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2016, 11:14:17 AM
'L' and 'R' were not used until fairly recently because in the earlier days of automobility, shields with the letters 'L' and 'R' were used instead of arrows to mark routing turns.
Mike
Hwy L in Kenosha County is not a fmr state highway I highly doubt the one in Washburn County is either. Hwy R in Waukesha County is not a fmr state Highway.
Has nothing to do with whether or not it was a former state highway.
I know I was just recacting to what Mike said in his first post that the ones designated were former state highways.
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2016, 04:39:48 AM
Despite those ransoms, county roads starting with I are county roads that do not end at another highway. EB and EA are parralel arterials to I-41 and I-43.
Doesn't county road ID run on the former alignment of US 18-151? (ID = "Iowa-Dane", two two counties in which the highway resides.)
Quote from: jbnv on September 04, 2016, 10:37:50 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2016, 04:39:48 AM
Despite those ransoms, county roads starting with I are county roads that do not end at another highway. EB and EA are parralel arterials to I-41 and I-43.
Doesn't county road ID run on the former alignment of US 18-151? (ID = "Iowa-Dane", two two counties in which the highway resides.)
I'm going to need to see some "ID" before you get your answer ;)
Yes - from Barneveld to east of Mt. Horeb. There are other parallels - 2 "HHH"s (Ridgeway and Keiler), an MV (parallel with a US-151 BUS in Verona), and an "XX" (Belmont to Platteville) that starts at 126 (which was extended to the freeway)
Quote from: jbnv on September 04, 2016, 10:37:50 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2016, 04:39:48 AM
Despite those randoms, county roads starting with I are county roads that do not end at another highway. EB and EA are parralel arterials to I-41 and I-43.
Doesn't county road ID run on the former alignment of US 18-151? (ID = "Iowa-Dane", two two counties in which the highway resides.)
The beginning "I" rule for county highways that do not end at other highways only applies to Brown County.
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 01, 2016, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 01, 2016, 10:29:04 AM
<--- (see his CTH P - OO avatar)
Exactly.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/29202124250_2dfc9cb8c7_k_d.jpg)
Here's the updated sign assembly with a unisign
Quote from: peterj920 on September 06, 2016, 12:44:43 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 01, 2016, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 01, 2016, 10:29:04 AM
<--- (see his CTH P - OO avatar)
Exactly.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/29202124250_2dfc9cb8c7_k_d.jpg)
Here's the updated sign assembly with a unisign
Nice. :-D
Are there any junctions of County A and SS? ;-)
I've noticed that there are quite a few lettered N and BB around the state - as for BB, I've been on four, having clinched two, and there are probably several more throughout the state.
Interesting how PP is so common - is it because it sounds funny when said aloud?
Brown County does have some random ones - where do KB, MW, VK, RK, and HS come from?
There is in Sheboygan County, I posted it a while back. Can't post now because I'm on a phone. HS stands for Howard Suamico, the 2 communities it passes through. The others I have no idea how they came up with those. Would like it if Lombardi Ave would have been VL for Vince Lombardi, I think that would be a lot better.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5834/22113374354_6e6e9bc546_k_d.jpg)
Here's the sign
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5724/22722568422_e0732cfa14_k_d.jpg)
Interesting enough it looks like the signs were intentionally posted separate to avoid the combination along Wis 28
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1510/26245013745_8d4dc0aa53_k_d.jpg)
This is for the Ric Flair fans
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/610/22113522094_ec3895123e_b_d.jpg)
If you like P's
No idea why the road would be named Old County Road PP if the entire road is current County PP in Sheboygan Falls
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/760/22307415824_49cc49e1dc_k_d.jpg)
X rated
Quote from: peterj920 on September 07, 2016, 10:05:15 PM
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5834/22113374354_6e6e9bc546_k_d.jpg)
Here's the sign
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5724/22722568422_e0732cfa14_k_d.jpg)
Interesting enough it looks like the signs were intentionally posted separate to avoid the combination along Wis 28
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1510/26245013745_8d4dc0aa53_k_d.jpg)
This is for the Ric Flair fans
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/610/22113522094_ec3895123e_b_d.jpg)
If you like P's
No idea why the road would be named Old County Road PP if the entire road is current County PP in Sheboygan Falls
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/760/22307415824_49cc49e1dc_k_d.jpg)
X rated
Did anybody else notice that on the PPP/PP/PP sign, the two signs for PP were pointed in the same direction? :pan:
Quote from: RandomDude172 on September 08, 2016, 06:51:43 AM
Did anybody else notice that on the PPP/PP/PP sign, the two signs for PP were pointed in the same direction? :pan:
Actually, one says "County PP" and the other says "OLD COUNTY ROAD PP".
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 08, 2016, 10:59:32 AM
Quote from: RandomDude172 on September 08, 2016, 06:51:43 AM
Did anybody else notice that on the PPP/PP/PP sign, the two signs for PP were pointed in the same direction? :pan:
Actually, one says "County PP" and the other says "OLD COUNTY ROAD PP".
They're the same road which makes it even stranger.
I remember reading an article in the Kenosha News (couldn't find it now after a short search) about the names of the county highways in Kenosha County. There weren't any interesting reasons for the names. All of them were named after prominent county/town politicians or long-time highway department employees. The only exception to that that I can remember is Hwy KR which is the county line between Kenosha and Racine counties. The rest of them were just initials of people I never heard of.
I don't think Kenosha has ever had a triple letter highway, with all of the possible two letter combinations I'm not sure why anyone does. I'm not sure if Racine County even has any two letter highways?
Just why is it that we use letters and hardly any other states do?
Is it just because we numbered our highways before anyone else did, and thought letters would be good to distinguish the county system, but then no one else followed our lead on that point?
Quote from: peterj920 on September 08, 2016, 01:37:39 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 08, 2016, 10:59:32 AM
Quote from: RandomDude172 on September 08, 2016, 06:51:43 AM
Did anybody else notice that on the PPP/PP/PP sign, the two signs for PP were pointed in the same direction? :pan:
Actually, one says "County PP" and the other says "OLD COUNTY ROAD PP".
They're the same road which makes it even stranger.
I think that's the dumbest road-related thing I've ever seen. :paranoid:
Quote from: invincor on September 08, 2016, 04:49:01 PM
Just why is it that we use letters and hardly any other states do?
Is it just because we numbered our highways before anyone else did, and thought letters would be good to distinguish the county system, but then no one else followed our lead on that point?
It probably goes along with the notion of not having duplicate highway identifications (IH vs. US vs. state highways). If you want to continue down that path, using letter identifications is the easiest way of doing so. You could always go to four digit numbered highways, but three digits seems to be as large as WisDOT ever wants to go.
Also note that Wisconsin lacks single digit STH (US-2 and US-8 are the only ones in the state)
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 08, 2016, 11:54:04 PM
Also note that Wisconsin lacks single digit STH (US-2 and US-8 are the only ones in the state)
Quote from: wisconsinhighways.org
Originally, state routes in Wisconsin were numbered only from 10 through 75–single-digit numbers were not originally chosen in an attempt to prevent some cities from claiming they were optimally located on "Highway 1," for example. Since 1917, the state has chosen to refrain from using single-digit state route numbers.
The original routes were also numbered on the basis of their length.
10 was the longest (roughly current US-51 and US-2)
75 was the shortest (along 76th Street in Milwaukee County between Bluemound and Forest Home.)
Quote from: peterj920 on September 06, 2016, 12:44:43 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 01, 2016, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 01, 2016, 10:29:04 AM
<--- (see his CTH P - OO avatar)
Exactly.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/29202124250_2dfc9cb8c7_k_d.jpg)
Here's the updated sign assembly with a unisign
They ought to have a wayside here, surely? :)
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 08, 2016, 11:54:04 PM
Also note that Wisconsin lacks single digit STH (US-2 and US-8 are the only ones in the state)
Not the only state that lacks that I know South Dakota doesn't use single numbers either. I am sure there are more.
Having lettered county routes makes them easy to distinguish from the other classifications of highways, but it can probably get pretty confusing to someone from out of state. Every county has it's own HWY A, HWY B, etc. You can pass one county's HWY A, and 10 miles later be in another county and pass their HWY A. I think the county highway shields should at least have the county name on them. Otherwise, I myself am fine with the lettered county highways. I like that it's unique.
Quote from: tchafe1978 on September 09, 2016, 04:26:44 PM
Having lettered county routes makes them easy to distinguish from the other classifications of highways, but it can probably get pretty confusing to someone from out of state. Every county has it's own HWY A, HWY B, etc. You can pass one county's HWY A, and 10 miles later be in another county and pass their HWY A. I think the county highway shields should at least have the county name on them. Otherwise, I myself am fine with the lettered county highways. I like that it's unique.
Taylor County names their county highway shields.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0769644,-90.2180904,3a,75y,109.46h,79.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxGhUNBIk86XwCfmRmY1lVA!2e0!7i3328!8i1664?hl=enhttps://www.google.com/maps/@45.1202495,-90.2171884,3a,75y,98.01h,72.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sW6MYot-0jDB6kV_wljAB7Q!2e0!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en
Quote from: invincor on September 09, 2016, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 06, 2016, 12:44:43 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 01, 2016, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 01, 2016, 10:29:04 AM
<--- (see his CTH P - OO avatar)
Exactly.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/29202124250_2dfc9cb8c7_k_d.jpg)
Here's the updated sign assembly with a unisign
They ought to have a wayside here, surely? :)
You could make one - and don't call me Shirley.
Quote from: invincor on September 09, 2016, 12:36:16 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 06, 2016, 12:44:43 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 01, 2016, 05:47:53 PM
Quote from: NE2 on September 01, 2016, 10:29:04 AM
<--- (see his CTH P - OO avatar)
Exactly.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8149/29202124250_2dfc9cb8c7_k_d.jpg)
Here's the updated sign assembly with a unisign
They ought to have a wayside here, surely? :)
Looks like there's plenty of trees and large brush...what more do you need? Might be a bit more challenging in winter, but most of the official waysides are closed then anyway.