Can be very dangerous if you accelerate too fast too late. I was on the SB I-190 on ramp in Buffalo at the Niagara St exit when I encountered this sign. Previously I was able to handle this ramp very well. There was a high volume of cars coming in the adjacent lane however, and this threw me off as I looked behind my shoulder instead of in the mirror. I had to almost come to a complete stop and was accosted by a symphony of horns.
How do you handle these "no-merge areas?"
Quote from: Buffaboy on September 02, 2016, 05:08:25 PM
Can be very dangerous if you accelerate too fast too soon. I was on the SB I-190 on ramp in Buffalo at the Niagara St exit when I encountered this sign. Previously I was able to handle this ramp very well. There was a high volume of cars coming in the adjacent lane however, and this threw me off as I looked behind my shoulder instead of in the mirror. I had to almost come to a complete stop and was accosted by a symphony of horns.
How do you handle these "no-merge areas?"
Get your ass up to speed and merge in as quickly as possible. The ramp
IS the acceleration lane. You should already be looking for your gap in traffic well before the merge point. If you're looking at the merge point, you're too late.
That's what I do too. There are places on the Merritt and Wilbur Cross Parkways where there is no merge area. Many of them have stop signs at the end of the ramp. But I think the best approach is to look while on the ramp and treat the stop sign as a yield and go throttle to the firewall as you get on the highway.
Even with a merge lane, many motorists blindly just start going at whatever speed they want to go, then cut in. They need to speed up to a point where they can find a gap, which means they need to keep an eye on approaching traffic. It's a game of skills and doing multiple things at one time...there's no one specific speed that works. If someone is the type that needs to do things step by step, they're going to have trouble, especially in a no-merge situation.
If I recall, some of the entrance ramps onto the 110 parkway near Pasadena are governed by stop signs. It is among the oldest freeways in the country of course.
Quote from: Buffaboy on September 02, 2016, 05:08:25 PM
How do you handle these "no-merge areas?"
Contact the DOT and tell them to modernize the intersection. :-D
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 03, 2016, 09:12:03 AM
Even with a merge lane, many motorists blindly just start going at whatever speed they want to go, then cut in. They need to speed up to a point where they can find a gap, which means they need to keep an eye on approaching traffic.
Which also affects everyone behind them on the ramp. Just a couple hours ago, I was behind some jackass doing a leisurely 35mph on an entrance ramp merging into a 70+mph freeway. Not having the ability to reconfigure my molecular structure to pass through him, that meant *I* was forced to merge at 35mph. I, not the jackass, would have been the one rear-ended if the driver already in the lane didn't slow down to avoid me.
If you're in front of me on an entrance ramp, and you aren't already at 45mph or greater by the time the ramp pavement meets the mainline pavement, I WILL be honking at you unless you're some kind of big rig truck.
If I was driving that ramp, I'd edge left onto the white line even though it's likely frowned upon or even illegal, to let the highway traffic know that I'm comin' in. And if I was on the highway, I'd drive friendly-- and be on brake slammer watch!
That's a short taper, but "no merge area" is an overstatement. Check this out, on a high-volume ramp opened just a few weeks ago near my house. Hey, isn't that kinda... short?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0pLeqEC.jpg%3F1&hash=f67e45221c72a18f174bd89a3225f4ccd39d6439)
SHIIIIIIIT! :wow: :wow: :wow:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F2vbCUnQ.jpg%3F1&hash=30de36b406a0acf8572354b00c54c5ac87293ca9)
Quote from: Tom958 on September 04, 2016, 10:43:00 AM
If I was driving that ramp, I'd edge left onto the white line even though it's likely frowned upon or even illegal, to let the highway traffic know that I'm comin' in. And if I was on the highway, I'd drive friendly-- and be on brake slammer watch!
That's a short taper, but "no merge area" is an overstatement. Check this out, on a high-volume ramp opened just a few weeks ago near my house. Hey, isn't that kinda... short?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0pLeqEC.jpg%3F1&hash=f67e45221c72a18f174bd89a3225f4ccd39d6439)
SHIIIIIIIT! :wow: :wow: :wow:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F2vbCUnQ.jpg%3F1&hash=30de36b406a0acf8572354b00c54c5ac87293ca9)
That's a special kind of ramp where the acceleration lane is built-in to the ramp. You're supposed to look for the gap and accelerate up to speed while on the ramp and do a zipper merge. Probably a good design for areas with heavy ramp traffic and an early merging culture (which results in people cutting into the freeway at 35 mph despite there being an acceleration lane, creating backups and a few opportunists who use the acceleration lane to cut in line).
Quote from: vdeane on September 04, 2016, 12:15:29 PMThat's a special kind of ramp where the acceleration lane is built-in to the ramp. You're supposed to look for the gap and accelerate up to speed while on the ramp and do a zipper merge. Probably a good design for areas with heavy ramp traffic and an early merging culture (which results in people cutting into the freeway at 35 mph despite there being an acceleration lane, creating backups and a few opportunists who use the acceleration lane to cut in line).
I didn't post the location since Google Maps hasn't been updated since construction has been completed, but... here it is (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9779468,-83.9934305,15.75z). We're looking west, and the little creek shown on the map is what's under the bridges in the photos. The roadway I'm on is an overlong onramp which somewhat resembles a CD road. It's quite straight and two lanes wide, and over half a mile from the last signalized intersection. It's unimaginable that anybody would be doing 35 mph by the time they reached the merging area. Also, the ramp serves two interchanges, which suggests that it requires a full-sized standard taper at the very least, not the truncated version they painted instead. Worse, since the approach to the taper is level rather than on a downward grade like the example in the OP, there's little opportunity to see in advance how short the taper is, and, since it's at odds with normal practice, no reason to expect it.
The saving grace compared with the OP example is that there's a shoulder to escape into, though it was obstructed by barrels when I took this photo.
This is a pointless and unexpected deviation from custom and practice in Georgia and, for that matter, any states which use taper merge lanes. I suspect that it's the result of lack of attention to detail, which is something that plagues GDOT these days.
Traffic on the mainline has the right of way. Period. If there is no gap, traffic on the ramp is supposed to stop if necessary to yield the ROW to traffic on the mainline.
Quote from: Brandon on September 04, 2016, 11:35:49 AM
Ramp meters, IMHO, are worthless things and should be removed.
Unfortunately, I believe all the studies beg to differ.
Quote from: UCFKnights on September 04, 2016, 08:15:27 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 04, 2016, 08:04:45 AM
Ramp meters, IMHO, are worthless things and should be removed.
Unfortunately, I believe all the studies beg to differ.
I definitely don't agree with removing ramp meters. Having grown up in the Seattle area (where ramp-meters are used at almost all freeway entrances), I've really come to appreciate them, despite the sometimes lengthy delay for entering traffic. They're exceptionally helpful when you have a heavy merge right before a heavy exit (in other words, a heavy weave). If there's fewer vehicles merging at the same time, the cars exiting are able to think less about merging with those entering the freeway, and more about getting to their exit and getting on with their fucking day.
Brandon, just out of curiosity: do you understand the physics behind ramp meters, and why they're becoming more and more common? Not sure how often you see them around Chicago, but basically all first-world countries use ramp meters: Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the UK, Japan, South Africa, Holland, Italy, Germany, etc. While I usually avoid the "lemming" rule, I don't think everyone would be using them if they weren't proven to be a valuable traffic-control asset.
Ramp meters are all over I-290, I-90 and I-94 in Chicago and parts of the suburbs
I echo the sentiment that ramp meters are indeed useful, and my opinion on this is based on going to Washington State and seeing how effective they are there. The ones on Chicago freeways seem to just delay the inevitable jamming, but that's probably a statement about Chicago's ineffectual freeway system, more than it is a statement about the ramp meters themselves.
Did I miss something? Around here ramp meters are placed far enough back that vehicles can get up to merging speed (well, LOS D merging speed) after stopping, making them irrelevant to the matter at hand.
...said Tom958, after posting something that was at best tangential to the topic himself. :hmmm:
This might be a better illustration of "No Merge Area". This stretch of I-94 has hardly been altered from its early 1950's (US-12) configuration. You have barely 1/4 mile to accelerate (uphill) from a dead stop to merge with 70+ mph traffic. The only thing that saves your bacon here is the paved shoulder.
MDOT could easily resolve the issue with about 1000 feet of merge lane, and in fact has with the next exit eastbound (including the necessary wider bridge). It's kinda astounding they didn't put a few thousand bucks into doing so during the last round of pavement work.
Welcome to Parma, MI.
Overhead:
https://goo.gl/maps/PZi96PSPDgu (https://goo.gl/maps/PZi96PSPDgu)
Street view at the ramp entrance:
https://goo.gl/maps/tvVCDQtD8Yw (https://goo.gl/maps/tvVCDQtD8Yw)
At the merge point:
https://goo.gl/maps/kSAx54UZpd42 (https://goo.gl/maps/kSAx54UZpd42)
I wouldn't be surprised if it was designed that way to try to avoid a situation where everyone tries to merge way too soon well below the speed of traffic (thereby causing a backup). There's another one on I-390 north at exit 13. Personally, I think there's a case to be made that some ramps on the Northway should probably be like that.
theres a ton of these on Long Island, many of them are missing Yield signs. Some people drive right to the end of the ramp and wait there to move over, which is wicked dangerous.
Best way is to wait just before the ramp meets the highway, look for a gap in traffic then floor it. If theres a shoulder lane use that for extra space to get up to speed. Thats what I ended up having to do on the Merrit Parkway. The onramps from the rest stops have yield signs and no merging area.
This isn't a freeway, but it *is* a divided highway with a posted 45 MPH speed limit. This is what I have to deal with every day twice a day (exiting NJ 70 in the morning and on entering at night):
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9089685,-74.9834108,3a,75y,250.08h,71.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm1ouUbSD2EWN-fqAiMcdPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
Not only does the entrance lane become an exit lane after barely touching the mainline, it merges with the right lane which is exit only. During morning rush, the whole setup is jammed with entering traffic trying to merge with the exiting traffic. During evening rush, traffic in the through lanes zooms by at speed. Finding a gap isn't a guarantee at all. It's still faster than any other way on or off I-295 South in my area.
Something tells me it's a problem here (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6130171,-122.3474359,3a,75y,345.7h,72.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soAKm6mZTJeYEnj0kHAHBDA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)...
This one is particularly awful - not only is there a backup at rush hour but I have seen fender benders and have almost been rear-ended by a truck at highway speeds. Traffic trying to merge onto I-95 NB in Wilmington, DE from the central business district not only has no acceleration lane but a weaving area with the right hand lane exiting about 3/4 mile up the road. The third lane is added from an on-ramp from a parallel service road about 1/4 mile back. It should be possible to make this ramp the third lane and make the earlier on-ramp merge with a decent acceleration lane, but DelDOT claims there's nothing they can do.
https://goo.gl/maps/ydCAfnPFVZR2
re: the above and the Seattle examples--maybe we should stop constructing onramps that merge onto the freeway just before it enters an overpass or underpass! It looks like bridge projects tend not to consider the need for an acceleration or deceleration lane for a ramp outside the project limits.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on September 14, 2016, 09:36:13 AM
re: the above and the Seattle examples--maybe we should stop constructing onramps that merge onto the freeway just before it enters an overpass or underpass! It looks like bridge projects tend not to consider the need for an acceleration or deceleration lane for a ramp outside the project limits.
The Delaware example was a product of highway building in the 1960's. I'm pretty sure bridge projects today consider those needs.
My favorite "Merge or Die" was getting on the Pulaski Skyway SB from Tonnele Ave (US 1/9) in Jersey City. You would just sit in the line on the ramp until it was your turn, crane your neck all the way around to watch the 60+ mph traffic zooming up on you, hope for the best and then stomp on it. There was sometimes a guy sitting at the top of the ramp selling stuff (can't recall what but probably mirrors, Bibles, crash helmets or something else appropriate). As part of the current Pulaski project or work on the adjacent ramp system, they managed to put in a very small acceleration lane, which takes some of the fun out of it. This streetview doesn't do it justice:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7393147,-74.0677368,3a,95.6y,266.42h,65.63t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smbVZmhlcCJnFnHbi8l2hLg!2e0? (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7393147,-74.0677368,3a,95.6y,266.42h,65.63t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smbVZmhlcCJnFnHbi8l2hLg!2e0?)
A close second would be the nearby on-ramp from Broadway, which enters from the left (but is now closed with the on-going work).
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on September 15, 2016, 12:46:27 AM
My favorite "Merge or Die" was getting on the Pulaski Skyway SB from Tonnele Ave (US 1/9) in Jersey City. You would just sit in the line on the ramp until it was your turn, crane your neck all the way around to watch the 60+ mph traffic zooming up on you, hope for the best and then stomp on it. There was sometimes a guy sitting at the top of the ramp selling stuff (can't recall what but probably mirrors, Bibles, crash helmets or something else appropriate). As part of the current Pulaski project or work on the adjacent ramp system, they managed to put in a very small acceleration lane, which takes some of the fun out of it. This streetview doesn't do it justice:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7393147,-74.0677368,3a,95.6y,266.42h,65.63t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smbVZmhlcCJnFnHbi8l2hLg!2e0? (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7393147,-74.0677368,3a,95.6y,266.42h,65.63t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smbVZmhlcCJnFnHbi8l2hLg!2e0?)
A close second would be the nearby on-ramp from Broadway, which enters from the left (but is now closed with the on-going work).
Agreed regarding the Pulaski Skyway. I've always driven in the left lane on this stretch because of the heavy merge coming in form Tonnelle. I feel that the two lanes of Pulaski should merge just prior to the Tonnele onramp so that the onramp has its own lane going forward and avoid the dangerous merge here. There certainly is enough traffic coming from Tonnele to justify it.
They're all over in Idaho. Most are on rural stretches of interstate (understandable due to traffic volume, but scary at 80 MPH). But, there are some pretty bad examples on heavily trafficked urban/suburban freeway...
I-184 Eastbound and Curtis Rd. onramp, Boise, ID:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTBswBaW.png&hash=066ff3a721641c248557f48beb95ae1b35f4d6cb) (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6178497,-116.2497153,3a,75y,74.08h,84.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgR1onpZal-UaBNfK9eBB2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I-84 Eastbound and Eagle Rd. northbound onramp, Meridian, ID:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJ6N0S8z.png&hash=a7ed1304c6e773a5fdade981e644f77808287f2c) (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5971553,-116.3483544,3a,75y,90.25h,72.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCmJpj82hiEcOaQaTC16b3A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I deal with this one every morning. Half the time morons are only going 45-50 by the time they get to the freeway. Luckily the right lane is moving somewhat slow around there because this is just after the loop onramp from southbound Eagle. Then, I (and hundreds of other cars) have to merge over to the left to get to I-184.
I-84 Westbound and Franklin Rd. onramp, Nampa, ID:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbKbXPSG.png&hash=5890286fe0d3a99abf9c561c852c217395352515) (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5994048,-116.5570186,3a,75y,275.44h,88.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smnp7egSbMwvAk9Y74prx1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
This one is especially bad because it is right after a big freeway bottleneck where I-84 drops from 4 to 3 to 2 lanes, and it backs up for miles from 4-6 PM. Very heavy traffic. And when it's not too heavy, lots of truck traffic going 55-60 in the right lane, and people going 75 in the left lane. I-84 from Franklin Rd. to Caldwell is just awful.
All these threw me off guard when I moved here, because you don't really see this in Oregon, at least not on interstates. I've never seen yields on freeways in Idaho. Based on this thread, a lot of these examples would have yields in some states. But here, they work better than you expect. People just go and find their way in. I've never had real trouble with it. But it's still bad, especially considering they did a major reconstruction of I-84 through Meridian recently, and yet the Eagle Rd. ramps are still that way (the Meridian Rd. onramps now have very long accel lanes though). FWIW, I am totally against the concept of yield signs on a freeway. Yield implies stopping if there's no gap. Stopping on an on-ramp (assuming free-flow traffic on the freeway) will only make it worse.
Before the Trent River Bridge was widened to 3 lanes to accommodate the interchange for the Neuse River Bridge when it was finished in the late 90's we had one of these here: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1008466,-77.06041,3a,75y,63.55h,90.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjDomDbZ88f0j-u60m8E8pA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1008466,-77.06041,3a,75y,63.55h,90.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjDomDbZ88f0j-u60m8E8pA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
Now, its simple. The ramp coming from the Pembroke overpass just becomes the third lane. No merging necessary unless you want to continue on to US-70 to go to Havelock, and you have the whole bridge to get that accomplished.
Back then the only acceleration room you has was from the apex of the corner on the tight clover leaf to the point where the solid white lines meet up ahead, and you better be up to speed or you were going to get smoked. Not fun in a 1980 Chevette that smoked more than I do, lol.
If you move the streetview ahead, you can see the seam in the asphalt just to the right of the center/right lane markers that used to be the outside edge of the shoulder of the road.
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 05, 2016, 09:07:09 PM
This might be a better illustration of "No Merge Area". This stretch of I-94 has hardly been altered from its early 1950's (US-12) configuration. You have barely 1/4 mile to accelerate (uphill) from a dead stop to merge with 70+ mph traffic. The only thing that saves your bacon here is the paved shoulder.
MDOT could easily resolve the issue with about 1000 feet of merge lane, and in fact has with the next exit eastbound (including the necessary wider bridge). It's kinda astounding they didn't put a few thousand bucks into doing so during the last round of pavement work.
Welcome to Parma, MI.
Overhead:
https://goo.gl/maps/PZi96PSPDgu (https://goo.gl/maps/PZi96PSPDgu)
Street view at the ramp entrance:
https://goo.gl/maps/tvVCDQtD8Yw (https://goo.gl/maps/tvVCDQtD8Yw)
At the merge point:
https://goo.gl/maps/kSAx54UZpd42 (https://goo.gl/maps/kSAx54UZpd42)
On a similar note in that area: The I-69 S merge onto the CD Ramp at I-94 west (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2976077,-85.0023975,3a,75y,276.36h,77.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2-kDpdS6PsZlcNHcfNWzeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) has no merge area. It has pros and cons over the Parma interchange: This one's a bit more serious if you're not able to merge in time (you're gonna hit an overpass), but you're not merging with mainline traffic (yet), and the ramp geometry makes it a little easier to make it to freeway speed.
When I saw the thread title, I immediately thought of the Illinois-bound (EB/SB) approaches to the I-74 bridge in Bettendorf, IA. There's two of them right in a row! https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5250372,-90.5132422,550m/data=!3m1!1e3
No religious discussion permitted.
SR-520 and SR-513 in Seattle has a sketchy merge.
https://goo.gl/maps/QA5axq9CjGL2
There's also a ramp meter, but I've never seen it on.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 09, 2016, 02:14:50 PM
No religious discussion permitted.
Butbutbut...
*sighs*Okay. :(
Quote from: KEK Inc. on October 15, 2016, 05:50:28 PM
There's also a ramp meter, but I've never seen it on.
Yeah, neither have I. Maybe the toll reduced the amount of traffic on the bridge to the point where the meters were no longer necessary? Or maybe the meter is so old, it doesn't work anymore? :-D