I've seen a number of examples over the years, in an area of residential on-street parking, of a handicap parking space that is ostensibly intended for a specific resident or residence. Of course, I am sure it's not permissible for a municipal government to actually designate a space for the use of specific individuals, but the placement of the space directly in front of a certain home, and not conveniently located to any other property, essentially guarantees that the space is only of use to that residence.
The situation I'm talking about occurs in areas of generally unregulated, on-street residential parking; I'm not thinking of handicap spaces in areas of metered parking, or spaces that happen to be convenient to somebody's home just by coincidence. Here's an example of one: https://goo.gl/maps/CDHFoCvGKGo (the blurred sign underneath is about alternate-side street sweeping regulations).
I don't know that I have a specific question, other than to observe that these exist and wonder if others have seen them in your own area? I suppose they must create the occasional conflict if another motorist with a handicap permit decides to use the space, other than the one for whom the space is "intended". This shouldn't happen often since the space isn't of much use to anyone else, but if you needed to park in the neighborhood, this was the last space available and you happen to have the permit, what's stopping you?
Here's another example: https://goo.gl/maps/FdDPGtEYfNu –note that this one is no longer present in later images, which raises the question of what happens when the resident moves or passes away*; what is the procedure for the removal of the designated space?
*If this resident did pass away, I'm sorry to hear of it, as he was my former landlord (I used to live in this house).
We have quite a few instances of this here in New Haven, CT. I've seen a few complaints (on 'See Click Fix') along the lines of 'Somebody parked in my spot', and of course parking enforcement replied stating that anyone with a handicap permit can park there.
Quote from: Marc_in_CT on September 06, 2016, 10:26:49 AM
We have quite a few instances of this here in New Haven, CT. I've seen a few complaints (on 'See Click Fix') along the lines of 'Somebody parked in my spot', and of course parking enforcement replied stating that anyone with a handicap permit can park there.
I would expect New Haven to be heavily posted with resident-only parking restrictions (not sure if you are talking about such an area, though). In that case, another disabled resident taking that spot should be an unusual situation - I would expect disabled newcomer to get their "own" spot.
In a different situation, I've seen a residential "disabled" spot to be treated as a regular one as there were no disabled permits in the adjacent building. Nobody cared.. And non-disabled open spots were always closer to the door than best disabled spot at nearby grocery store anyway..
The City of Boston has such a program in place. http://www.cityofboston.gov/Disability/Parking/
Also, under Massachusetts law, holders of disability plates or tags are exempt from time restrictions posted at on-street parking spaces. It predates the provision of handicap-only parking spaces.
Quote from: roadman on September 06, 2016, 11:04:23 AM
The City of Boston has such a program in place. http://www.cityofboston.gov/Disability/Parking/
It is not "such a program"
QuoteAdditionally, applicants should be aware that the installation of a Residential HP Parking Space does not reserve a parking space for their exclusive personal use. All HP spaces on public streets in Boston are available for use by any vehicle with a valid HP / DV license plate, or an HP placard.
That is the entire point of the post, as far as I understand - reserving disabled spot for a specific person, not just designating convenient spot as a disabled one.
Quote from: kalvado on September 06, 2016, 11:17:44 AM
It is not "such a program"
I respectfully disagree. Signs are requested by individuals and, if approved, posted outside individual's residences. Although anyone with a handicap plate or tag can legally park in that space, it's pretty clear the program is to benefit individual residents, and not the driving public at large.
Quote from: roadman on September 06, 2016, 11:29:46 AM
I respectfully disagree. Signs are requested by individuals and, if approved, posted outside individual's residences. Although anyone with a handicap plate or tag can legally park in that space, it's pretty clear the program is to benefit individual residents, and not the driving public at large.
Well, lets put it this way: I can see few tiers of service to discuss:
-Generic ADA compliant "disabled" spot
-Disabled spot designated (relocated) by request of certain disabled person
-Disabled spot designated (relocated) by request of certain disabled person AND signed for that exact license plate/name/address
-Disabled spot designated (relocated) by request of certain disabled person AND signed for that exact license plate/name/address AND located in the area which requires parking permit.
First is required by law. Second is a nice touch, but probably OK. Third one.. There may be a few questions to ask. FOurth... I have seen a lot of instances when spots were allocated on per-user basis, not "first come first served". In that case, posting disabled for specific user is no different than posting for specific user (and "disabled" designation is sort of redundant) - but what if there is only one user-specific spot on the lot?
There was actually one on our street when we moved in. There's often no parking on our street, so the residents clearly did it to "reserve" a space out front, since Californians cannot park in their garages under any circumstance. However, others with placards would occasionally come by and be in their spot. After a while of living there, the restriction was removed. I would guess that they complained about people in their spot, and received a response that they didn't like.
At one point several years ago in Phoenixville PA (suburban Philly), there would be a supplemental sign below the handicapped sign with the actual license plate, which would make it a designated space. It was a white sign with red border and text. I don't know if that is still occurring though.
Here's an example where one has no reason for it: https://goo.gl/maps/DxcWJWUpQPM2 I imagine the homeowners asked for a handicap sign and got it (the supplemental sign below is informing one of the penalties; a requirement under NJ law). The homeowner already has a driveway. Now, look up and down the street...no one is parking on it! If you use the time feature of GSV to see other years, on occasion you'll see a car or two on the curb. But not many. It's certainly not city life...there's plenty of room for parking for the few that park on the shoulder.
Notice something else in those GSV time views...the handicap spot is never occupied! And being familiar with this street as use it fairly frequently, I can't recall a time a car was ever in the spot! If they were handicapped, it would make more sense to use the driveway. In fact, that should be the ultimate requirement - if you have a driveway where access to the door would be better, you shouldn't get a spot in the street.
Oh, so there's also the ParkWise spot reservation program in Tucson. It's a way for the city to make money from university students. The university maintains the streets and parking on campus, but it very quickly reverts to city-maintained around campus, and that's where you see the signs warning of reserved street spaces. But they're not disabled spaces.
https://www.tucsonaz.gov/park-tucson/non-resident-parking-permit-program
I used to work for UA's parking department, and I recall there being a few individually reserved disabled spots. There were, of course, plenty of regular reserved spots, but numbers typically worked out well enough for those with disabled placards that there wasn't much of a need to reserve a space.
There are all sorts of reserved spots along the west side of the Empire State Plaza to accommodate state officials 24 x 7. Whether one considers them handicapped or not is probably up for argument.
(NYSDOT similarly has office-specific reserved spots in front of its Main Office building)
I was wondering how common something like this was ever since I saw this handicapped parking sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0373841,-88.0110565,3a,60y,225.41h,77.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHAPDMKdeS1YyXbk-5S9HXA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) on a residential street near my brother's house. Not quite sure the rationale for this one, since it's a very quiet street, just about everyone has a two-car garage/and or a long driveway with plenty of vehicular storage, and the distance between the sign and the driveway isn't big enough to park a smart car. According to the historical street views, it was installed within the last 5 years.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 06, 2016, 12:38:49 PM
Here's an example where one has no reason for it: https://goo.gl/maps/DxcWJWUpQPM2 I imagine the homeowners asked for a handicap sign and got it (the supplemental sign below is informing one of the penalties; a requirement under NJ law). The homeowner already has a driveway. Now, look up and down the street...no one is parking on it! If you use the time feature of GSV to see other years, on occasion you'll see a car or two on the curb. But not many. It's certainly not city life...there's plenty of room for parking for the few that park on the shoulder.
Notice something else in those GSV time views...the handicap spot is never occupied! And being familiar with this street as use it fairly frequently, I can't recall a time a car was ever in the spot! If they were handicapped, it would make more sense to use the driveway. In fact, that should be the ultimate requirement - if you have a driveway where access to the door would be better, you shouldn't get a spot in the street.
Respectfully, I think the space is not for parking per se, but for loading/unloading. There does not look to be much ability to load a wheelchair into a capable van in that specific driveway there, but it looks to me like a van with a w/c lift on the vehicle's right side could safely pick someone up from that very spot on the street.
Quote from: kalvado on September 06, 2016, 11:17:44 AM
Quote from: roadman on September 06, 2016, 11:04:23 AM
The City of Boston has such a program in place. http://www.cityofboston.gov/Disability/Parking/
It is not "such a program"
QuoteAdditionally, applicants should be aware that the installation of a Residential HP Parking Space does not reserve a parking space for their exclusive personal use. All HP spaces on public streets in Boston are available for use by any vehicle with a valid HP / DV license plate, or an HP placard.
That is the entire point of the post, as far as I understand - reserving disabled spot for a specific person, not just designating convenient spot as a disabled one.
No, that's exactly what I'm referring to: designating a handicap space, for use like any other by anyone with a handicap permit, but which by virtue of its location is clearly intended for the de facto, if not de jure, use of a specific residence.
Now, I've since dug up a few instances where the space
can be reserved for specific individuals. Notably, Chicago's version of this program ties the space to a specific handicap permit number, and only the vehicle with that specific permit may use it. Also, the application form used in Maryland (outside of Baltimore) has a space for filling in two vehicles that are authorized to use the space, but I don't know whether that carries any weight of enforcement.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 06, 2016, 12:38:49 PM
Here's an example where one has no reason for it: https://goo.gl/maps/DxcWJWUpQPM2 I imagine the homeowners asked for a handicap sign and got it (the supplemental sign below is informing one of the penalties; a requirement under NJ law). The homeowner already has a driveway. [...] If they were handicapped, it would make more sense to use the driveway. In fact, that should be the ultimate requirement - if you have a driveway where access to the door would be better, you shouldn't get a spot in the street.
One of the programs I looked up–I have no idea whether this applies in the location you linked to–said that reserved spaces were not available if there was a driveway on the property–
unless the disabled person needed a lift-equipped van
and the driveway was not of sufficient dimension to accommodate one of these. So that's one reason a person with a driveway might be entitled to a space on the street.
Quote from: US 81 on September 06, 2016, 02:47:47 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 06, 2016, 12:38:49 PM
Here's an example where one has no reason for it: https://goo.gl/maps/DxcWJWUpQPM2 I imagine the homeowners asked for a handicap sign and got it (the supplemental sign below is informing one of the penalties; a requirement under NJ law). The homeowner already has a driveway. [...] If they were handicapped, it would make more sense to use the driveway. In fact, that should be the ultimate requirement - if you have a driveway where access to the door would be better, you shouldn't get a spot in the street.
One of the programs I looked up–I have no idea whether this applies in the location you linked to–said that reserved spaces were not available if there was a driveway on the property–unless the disabled person needed a lift-equipped van and the driveway was not of sufficient dimension to accommodate one of these. So that's one reason a person with a driveway might be entitled to a space on the street.
The law appears to be fairly generic, to the point where if a resident is handicap, and/or has a handicap placard available to them, then a spot can be restricted. It doesn't go into any other requirements or exceptions.
Chicago has them all over the city as parallel parking spaces. They're the typical white and blue with the handicap symbol, and list the permit number that can park there.
Quote from: Rothman on September 06, 2016, 01:40:56 PM
There are all sorts of reserved spots along the west side of the Empire State Plaza to accommodate state officials 24 x 7. Whether one considers them handicapped or not is probably up for argument.
(NYSDOT similarly has office-specific reserved spots in front of its Main Office building)
They actually have this in Sacramento too, along Capitol Mall in the roundabout just west of the building. It seems that would require a lot of sign changes, having peoples names on them instead of just their office.
at my freind's apartment complex, the handicapped parking sign had a number on it designating the apartment number it was to be used for.Dunno how much use it was to someone in a wheelchair since the place was an old building that seriously was not ADA compliant. (No elevator at all)
Quote from: mariethefoxy on September 06, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
at my freind's apartment complex, the handicapped parking sign had a number on it designating the apartment number it was to be used for.Dunno how much use it was to someone in a wheelchair since the place was an old building that seriously was not ADA compliant. (No elevator at all)
Most handicapped people don't need a wheelchair.
Quote from: mariethefoxy on September 06, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
at my freind's apartment complex, the handicapped parking sign had a number on it designating the apartment number it was to be used for.Dunno how much use it was to someone in a wheelchair since the place was an old building that seriously was not ADA compliant. (No elevator at all)
But that was privately owned, and in a parking lot, surely?
We have this in Toledo: http://tinyurl.com/hvr9bnl
More often than not, the city uses the restricted parking signs when there is no driveway for the house or if the driveway is in an alley.
And, of course, the example I pick is in front of a house with a driveway - go figure.
Quote from: countysigns on September 07, 2016, 08:03:26 PM
We have this in Toledo: http://tinyurl.com/hvr9bnl
More often than not, the city uses the restricted parking signs when there is no driveway for the house or if the driveway is in an alley.
And, of course, the example I pick is in front of a house with a driveway - go figure.
I came across several policies from California cities, all of which contain similar boiler-plate language saying that any reserved spot was still available to anyone with a handicap placard. Contrasting that with this and other examples of permit-specific spaces, I'm assuming the differences are due to various state laws and whether they prohibit individualized restrictions on official signs.
So here's one which is also for the guerilla traffic control files:
I have a (now deceased) older relative who, about 20 years ago, took it upon himself to take a can of paint and mark the spot on the street in front of his house as handicapped. He would adamantly defend this as *his* space, to the point where he even once flipped out on someone else who parked there with a handicapped permit.
Despite having zero authority to do this, he got away with it until he died. After which point the paint (which was not pavement marking grade paint) was simply left to fade away. No trace remains today as best I can tell.
Quote from: empirestate on September 07, 2016, 05:17:03 PM
Quote from: mariethefoxy on September 06, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
at my freind's apartment complex, the handicapped parking sign had a number on it designating the apartment number it was to be used for.Dunno how much use it was to someone in a wheelchair since the place was an old building that seriously was not ADA compliant. (No elevator at all)
But that was privately owned, and in a parking lot, surely?
yup, it was within the apartment complex, can you still get a parking ticket for parking there without a tag or plate if its private property?
Quote from: mariethefoxy on September 08, 2016, 01:17:05 AM
Quote from: empirestate on September 07, 2016, 05:17:03 PM
Quote from: mariethefoxy on September 06, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
at my freind's apartment complex, the handicapped parking sign had a number on it designating the apartment number it was to be used for.Dunno how much use it was to someone in a wheelchair since the place was an old building that seriously was not ADA compliant. (No elevator at all)
But that was privately owned, and in a parking lot, surely?
yup, it was within the apartment complex, can you still get a parking ticket for parking there without a tag or plate if its private property?
Depends on the laws in that area, I suppose. But you could certainly be towed away.
But in any case, that's a whole different ballgame from what this topic is about, which is public, on-street parking spaces.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 07, 2016, 08:44:49 PM
So here's one which is also for the guerilla traffic control files:
I have a (now deceased) older relative who, about 20 years ago, took it upon himself to take a can of paint and mark the spot on the street in front of his house as handicapped. He would adamantly defend this as *his* space, to the point where he even once flipped out on someone else who parked there with a handicapped permit.
Despite having zero authority to do this, he got away with it until he died. After which point the paint (which was not pavement marking grade paint) was simply left to fade away. No trace remains today as best I can tell.
A friend of mine who knows Sea Isle City, NJ well, where on-street parking is tight and limited by numerous residential driveways, said that some people, including his uncle, used to put yellow paint within a few feet of their driveway apron to keep cars away. At first, the city let it go. But more and more people started doing it, to the point where people started creating no parking zones in front of their entire property, which drew complaints from people about all the no parking zones.
All of this, of course, was completely illegal (even though my friend claimed he was told by a cop he could do it). Everyone with yellow paint was sent notices telling them that it was illegal to paint the curb, and they would be charged with destruction of public property if it wasn't removed.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 08, 2016, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on September 07, 2016, 08:44:49 PM
So here's one which is also for the guerilla traffic control files:
I have a (now deceased) older relative who, about 20 years ago, took it upon himself to take a can of paint and mark the spot on the street in front of his house as handicapped. He would adamantly defend this as *his* space, to the point where he even once flipped out on someone else who parked there with a handicapped permit.
Despite having zero authority to do this, he got away with it until he died. After which point the paint (which was not pavement marking grade paint) was simply left to fade away. No trace remains today as best I can tell.
A friend of mine who knows Sea Isle City, NJ well, where on-street parking is tight and limited by numerous residential driveways, said that some people, including his uncle, used to put yellow paint within a few feet of their driveway apron to keep cars away. At first, the city let it go. But more and more people started doing it, to the point where people started creating no parking zones in front of their entire property, which drew complaints from people about all the no parking zones.
All of this, of course, was completely illegal (even though my friend claimed he was told by a cop he could do it). Everyone with yellow paint was sent notices telling them that it was illegal to paint the curb, and they would be charged with destruction of public property if it wasn't removed.
Stuff like that still goes on in various places. Stanley Roberts did this report in 2008:
Dayton has an interesting way of doing it in residential areas:
https://goo.gl/maps/Sjc4XVa4VDt
NO Parking Except with City of Dayton Handicapped Plaque
And the plaque is a monstrosity that sits on your dashboard, probably about 8x14, in Highway Gothic, that says "City of Dayton Handicapped Permit."
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 08, 2016, 08:42:20 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 08, 2016, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on September 07, 2016, 08:44:49 PM
So here's one which is also for the guerilla traffic control files:
I have a (now deceased) older relative who, about 20 years ago, took it upon himself to take a can of paint and mark the spot on the street in front of his house as handicapped. He would adamantly defend this as *his* space, to the point where he even once flipped out on someone else who parked there with a handicapped permit.
Despite having zero authority to do this, he got away with it until he died. After which point the paint (which was not pavement marking grade paint) was simply left to fade away. No trace remains today as best I can tell.
A friend of mine who knows Sea Isle City, NJ well, where on-street parking is tight and limited by numerous residential driveways, said that some people, including his uncle, used to put yellow paint within a few feet of their driveway apron to keep cars away. At first, the city let it go. But more and more people started doing it, to the point where people started creating no parking zones in front of their entire property, which drew complaints from people about all the no parking zones.
All of this, of course, was completely illegal (even though my friend claimed he was told by a cop he could do it). Everyone with yellow paint was sent notices telling them that it was illegal to paint the curb, and they would be charged with destruction of public property if it wasn't removed.
Stuff like that still goes on in various places. Stanley Roberts did this report in 2008:
Reminds me a bit of an old
Dennis the Menace episode from a while back...IIRC, Dennis spilled some red paint on the curb by Mr. Wilson's house, then felt obligated to fix his clumsiness by painting the rest of the curb in front of the house to match. Prior to that, Mr. Wilson had been complaining to the police about people parking in front of his house.
Seattle has one of these programs (http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/parking/disabledparking.htm). It also explicitly states that it is not reserved for a specific person, though that probably doesn't stop people from complaining. From what I've seen, it is also allowed for houses with driveways if they are not accessible, which in Seattle is generally due to hills.
Portland doesn't have this program due to the concerns about effectively providing a private parking space.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 08, 2016, 12:46:22 PM
A friend of mine who knows Sea Isle City, NJ well, where on-street parking is tight and limited by numerous residential driveways, said that some people, including his uncle, used to put yellow paint within a few feet of their driveway apron to keep cars away. At first, the city let it go. But more and more people started doing it, to the point where people started creating no parking zones in front of their entire property, which drew complaints from people about all the no parking zones.
All of this, of course, was completely illegal (even though my friend claimed he was told by a cop he could do it). Everyone with yellow paint was sent notices telling them that it was illegal to paint the curb, and they would be charged with destruction of public property if it wasn't removed.
Seattle actually explicitly permits this (http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/parking/drivewaymarking.htm), though it's not very common, and when people do this, they often do more than allowed (I've seen a few places where people painted "NO PARKING" on the pavement in front of their driveway).
When I lived in Van Nuys, I was frequently tempted to be one of those guerilla curb painters.
I lived on the west side of Woodman Avenue. On the north side of the driveway, there was a bus stop with a red-painted curb. On the south side, the curb was unpainted, and people often would try to squeeze a teeny car into the tiniest space imaginable, often partially blocking the narrow driveway. I never did so, but I was always threatening to get some red paint and paint the curb for a length of about four or five feet on the south side of the driveway.
California is one of the few states here curb painting alone has meaning.
In most states, curb painting is meaningless. Painting yellow on the curb has no force of law, you need to have a no parking sign in front to have an enforceable restriction.
Yet, the yellow paint clearly indicates that it may not be a good idea to park there, and yes, you shouldn't park up to the edge of a driveway and having the paint delineate a safe zone is sometimes helpful. Some curb spaces between two driveways are not wide enough for a car, so the homeowner painted it yellow and now nobody even attempts to park there.
Quote from: mrsman on October 21, 2016, 08:27:32 AM
California is one of the few states here curb painting alone has meaning.
In most states, curb painting is meaningless. Painting yellow on the curb has no force of law, you need to have a no parking sign in front to have an enforceable restriction.
Yet, the yellow paint clearly indicates that it may not be a good idea to park there, and yes, you shouldn't park up to the edge of a driveway and having the paint delineate a safe zone is sometimes helpful. Some curb spaces between two driveways are not wide enough for a car, so the homeowner painted it yellow and now nobody even attempts to park there.
States also have state statutes defining no parking zones for specific distances away from intersections, driveways, curb cuts, etc. Paint only reinforces those statutes, and no signage is required.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 08, 2016, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on September 07, 2016, 08:44:49 PM
So here's one which is also for the guerilla traffic control files:
I have a (now deceased) older relative who, about 20 years ago, took it upon himself to take a can of paint and mark the spot on the street in front of his house as handicapped. He would adamantly defend this as *his* space, to the point where he even once flipped out on someone else who parked there with a handicapped permit.
Despite having zero authority to do this, he got away with it until he died. After which point the paint (which was not pavement marking grade paint) was simply left to fade away. No trace remains today as best I can tell.
A friend of mine who knows Sea Isle City, NJ well, where on-street parking is tight and limited by numerous residential driveways, said that some people, including his uncle, used to put yellow paint within a few feet of their driveway apron to keep cars away. At first, the city let it go. But more and more people started doing it, to the point where people started creating no parking zones in front of their entire property, which drew complaints from people about all the no parking zones.
All of this, of course, was completely illegal (even though my friend claimed he was told by a cop he could do it). Everyone with yellow paint was sent notices telling them that it was illegal to paint the curb, and they would be charged with destruction of public property if it wasn't removed.
Neighbors a block away spray-painted their curb bright yellow, with a single coat so it looked like crap. But they did it to match how they spray-painted the curb edges of their driveway. They thought it looked good, I guess.
Quote from: mrsman on October 21, 2016, 08:27:32 AMIn most states, curb painting is meaningless. Painting yellow on the curb has no force of law, you need to have a no parking sign in front to have an enforceable restriction.
A former pastor told a story about painted curbs. He was in the Zeeland MI hospital. Several years prior they had changed the configuration of the parking lot, and moved the entrance. But there was still a short section of the old curb next to the old entrance that was painted yellow.
A city worker came along to repaint the yellow curbs. He saw the short section, shrugged, and dutifully repainted it.