Let's talk about median breaks, also known as crossovers, U-turns etc. Not ramps or turnarounds meant for public use, mind you, just the typical ones you see all over the place, usually marked with a "No U-turn" or "Authorized Vehicles Only" sign. The ones where the cops sit and snowplows change direction, and where they sometimes park maintenance vehicles and other equipment.
No specific question, just opening a thread for this topic since there didn't seem to be one. Some things to consider are: what is the rhyme and reason for where these are placed? Often they seem to be near interchanges, maybe at both ends of a set of ramps, while others are just spaced at irregular intervals along the highway. They're generally paved, although some are gravel or dirt-surfaced, and others don't even seem to be official openings at all, just desire lines. Some are very highly-engineered, with full deceleration and acceleration lanes, well-demarcated with delineators and guide rails, but others are just a bit of asphalt slapped across the ground. And then you have the New Jersey Turnpike, where there's a whole system of signs showing whether they're "Z-turns" (same-direction crossovers) or "U-turns" (opposite direction), and many of them are actually fully-built roadways crossing over or under the highway from the outside edges, rather than across the median.
Let's say that there's an accident immediately before Exit 31, and there are no exits within 5 miles. Instead of having to get on at exit 26, the emergency vehicle can get on at Exit 31 and turn around.
As far as I can tell (speaking for NJ), if there's more than a mile or 2 between interchanges usually a U-turn area exists. Sometimes they're official and paved; other times they're not and exist only because official vehicles constantly used them.
The Garden State Parkway also had a system, although not as apparent as what the NJ Turnpike uses. The Parkway, at about 500 - 1000 feet before a median access point, will use a "L" shaped reflector, with the hands at 6 & 9. At the access point itself, an "L" shaped reflector with the hands at 9 & 12 is used.
The AC Expressway started using a system also, which I think had a reference point on the marker at the U-turn area (I've only seen it once and forget its exact look).
It's worth noting that each state (and even different agencies within a state) sign them differently. NYSDOT and NYSTA use the pictogram, as do Ohio and the Maine Turnpike Authority. MaineDOT uses a text sign that is hard to view from the travel lanes, while PennDOT uses a text sign in the same position as the U-turn signs in other states.
At least up north, boundaries between states or maintenance regions tend to have 2 crossovers in a row. This facilitates snowplow turnarounds while ensuring that the entire roadway gets full snowplow coverage.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8893/28920962394_4380bb4ae2_k_d.jpg)
This is a typical freeway turnaround in Wisconsin. Usually they're about a half mile apart.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8180/29465718071_ccb4999b13_b_d.jpg)
Here's a closeup of a sign posted at freeway/expressway turnarounds in Wisconsin.
Ones around here are usually placed in locations where one maintenance patrol hands off to another, so you get overlap there will be two in quick succession.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1233354,-80.670413,201m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&hl=en
And often also placed at other strategic locations to allow for emergency turnarounds as noted above.
Quote from: cbeach40 on September 08, 2016, 01:56:07 PM
Ones around here are usually placed in locations where one maintenance patrol hands off to another, so you get overlap there will be two in quick succession.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1233354,-80.670413,201m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&hl=en
And often also placed at other strategic locations to allow for emergency turnarounds as noted above.
I've seen a lot of the double ones, and noted them to often be located at state lines and the like. I hadn't worked out before how they facilitate overlap–so, a vehicle from State X will pass the turnaround that's just inside that state, and instead use the one located a few hundred feet inside State Y?
Quote from: empirestate on September 08, 2016, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: cbeach40 on September 08, 2016, 01:56:07 PM
Ones around here are usually placed in locations where one maintenance patrol hands off to another, so you get overlap there will be two in quick succession.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1233354,-80.670413,201m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&hl=en
And often also placed at other strategic locations to allow for emergency turnarounds as noted above.
I've seen a lot of the double ones, and noted them to often be located at state lines and the like. I hadn't worked out before how they facilitate overlap–so, a vehicle from State X will pass the turnaround that's just inside that state, and instead use the one located a few hundred feet inside State Y?
Yes.
I-70 at the crest of the Blue Ridge (South Mountain) has double crossovers (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Myersville,+MD+21773/@39.5341957,-77.6074658,480m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c9c24e13ee7db7:0xc06c1eaad6e4bc85!8m2!3d39.5051006!4d-77.5663773) (Maryland seems to like that term) because it is a maintenance area boundary (Frederick County/Washington County border) and because that are can get pretty heavy snow because of its higher (for Maryland) elevation.
I-70 at the Maryland/Pennsylvania border has two (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hancock,+MD+21750/@39.7220729,-78.1866565,479m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ca1620b29c6839:0xedb5e998251303d7!8m2!3d39.6989809!4d-78.1797293) as well.
As does I-95 at the Maryland/Delaware border (https://www.google.com/maps/place/North+East,+MD+21901/@39.638567,-75.7916731,480m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c7b0878b459e3d:0x1c9a29706068e5cf!8m2!3d39.6001132!4d-75.9413327) perhaps in part because of the Delaware toll barrier not far from here.
If the maintenance area boundary is near an interchange, Maryland may not bother with the double crossovers, and just use the interchange ramps.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 08, 2016, 02:12:55 PM
If the maintenance area boundary is near an interchange, Maryland may not bother with the double crossovers, and just use the interchange ramps.
New York is the same way. In several cases, the region line is within half a mile of an interchange, eliminating one of them.
Here's a double crossover (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9302153,-74.6174962,3a,42.9y,154.15h,84.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxkaZ6TiIVETFhvenIuBD4g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) on the Thruway in Fort Plain (second one visible in the background). This is at the boundary between Albany and Syracuse maintenance.
The Broome-Tioga County Line on NY 17 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0673883,-76.1084692,328m/data=!3m1!1e3) has one dating from when Tioga was part of R6 (now R9).
Further west is one on the R5-R6 boundary at the Allegany/Cattaraugus line (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Allegany+County,+NY/@42.2159291,-78.3080196,1078m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89d7658129ec7d97:0xa654133916c27eca!8m2!3d42.3129816!4d-78.0195387)
The Steuben-Livingston line (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Steuben+County,+NY/@42.5384629,-77.6872904,1490m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89d05a68ea0b2f01:0x7a11f0a5a2705ce6!8m2!3d42.321027!4d-77.3783789) on I-390 (R4-R6) has one with wide spacing.
The other Interstate region boundaries in the state as well as I-84's entrance to Connecticut are within a mile of exits on at least one side, eliminating the double crossover. I-90 at the NY/MA line has a double crossover even though there's an exit right there.
Quote from: cl94 on September 08, 2016, 01:09:35 PM
It's worth noting that each state (and even different agencies within a state) sign them differently. NYSDOT and NYSTA use the pictogram, as do Ohio and the Maine Turnpike Authority. MaineDOT uses a text sign that is hard to view from the travel lanes, while PennDOT uses a text sign in the same position as the U-turn signs in other states.
Massachusetts used to use an "Official Vehicles Only" sign to denote median breaks. However, they've been transitioning to use of a standard No U Turn graphic sign with a "Except Authorized Vehicles" plate as signs are replaced. Some Districts have used an "Authorized Vehicles Only" plate instead, but these are being replaced with the standard "Except Authorized Vehicles" plate.
Quote
At least up north, boundaries between states or maintenance regions tend to have 2 crossovers in a row. This facilitates snowplow turnarounds while ensuring that the entire roadway gets full snowplow coverage.
All borders of Massachusetts with adjoining states have this dual turnout setup.
The Atchafalaya Swamp Bridge on I-10 in Louisiana has several emergency crossovers, blocked by concrete barricades. They look funny because they were obviously built later.
I-10 in West Texas has a couple of semi-public crossovers by its grade intersections. IIRC, there's a sign restricting then either to local traffic or advising that U-turns are not allowed.
I-565 recently got these with the installation of the cable fence in the median.
In Florida on I -10 there are crossovers for hurricane evacuation contra flow, just east of 295 and 75. They are blocked with plastic pylons.
Other freeways in the Southeast and gulf coast have it as well
In Western NY, the median crossovers on I-86, I-390, and the Thruway are all numbered with a number-letter scheme. I-390 and the Thruway correspond to mileposts, and I think I-86 may correspond with the mileage listed on the small reference control points (I forget what those are called).
Quote from: 1 on September 08, 2016, 12:50:45 PM
Let's say that there's an accident immediately before Exit 31, and there are no exits within 5 miles. Instead of having to get on at exit 26, the emergency vehicle can get on at Exit 31 and turn around.
I was told by a traffic engineer, and have no reason to doubt him, that part of the design standard was that there must be a cross over every so many miles (cannot remember exactly, it has been several years) for these purposes. Either an exit or a median break. He was having trouble because his bosses were adding a thrid lane by filling up the median without supporting this standard and he was refusing to sign off on it.
One thing I like about Jersey barriers, median guardrail or cable barriers, is that cops can't use the median as an unofficial crossover to come after you if you're speeding in the opposite direction unless there's a crossover. Unless you're unlucky enough to meet the cop right at a crossover, you can usually just speed away from him and be safely on your way before he can get to one to change directions.
Quote from: SP Cook on September 09, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 08, 2016, 12:50:45 PM
Let's say that there's an accident immediately before Exit 31, and there are no exits within 5 miles. Instead of having to get on at exit 26, the emergency vehicle can get on at Exit 31 and turn around.
I was told by a traffic engineer, and have no reason to doubt him, that part of the design standard was that there must be a cross over every so many miles (cannot remember exactly, it has been several years) for these purposes. Either an exit or a median break. He was having trouble because his bosses were adding a thrid lane by filling up the median without supporting this standard and he was refusing to sign off on it.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 09, 2016, 11:27:58 AM
One thing I like about Jersey barriers, median guardrail or cable barriers, is that cops can't use the median as an unofficial crossover to come after you if you're speeding in the opposite direction unless there's a crossover. Unless you're unlucky enough to meet the cop right at a crossover, you can usually just speed away from him and be safely on your way before he can get to one to change directions.
Are breaks like these (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.9629268,-94.6597381/36.9431245,-94.6857525/@36.9480598,-94.6795599,454m/data=!3m1!1e3) any more dangerous than other kinds? I always hate the older turnpikes that have the breaks every so often.
I guess I haven't seen any newer six lane jerseys with exits >2mi apart. (My local example, US 65 in Springfield, mo, has exits <1mi)
Quote from: intelati49 on September 09, 2016, 11:55:51 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on September 09, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 08, 2016, 12:50:45 PM
Let's say that there's an accident immediately before Exit 31, and there are no exits within 5 miles. Instead of having to get on at exit 26, the emergency vehicle can get on at Exit 31 and turn around.
I was told by a traffic engineer, and have no reason to doubt him, that part of the design standard was that there must be a cross over every so many miles (cannot remember exactly, it has been several years) for these purposes. Either an exit or a median break. He was having trouble because his bosses were adding a thrid lane by filling up the median without supporting this standard and he was refusing to sign off on it.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 09, 2016, 11:27:58 AM
One thing I like about Jersey barriers, median guardrail or cable barriers, is that cops can't use the median as an unofficial crossover to come after you if you're speeding in the opposite direction unless there's a crossover. Unless you're unlucky enough to meet the cop right at a crossover, you can usually just speed away from him and be safely on your way before he can get to one to change directions.
Are breaks like these (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.9629268,-94.6597381/36.9431245,-94.6857525/@36.9480598,-94.6795599,454m/data=!3m1!1e3) any more dangerous than other kinds? I always hate the older turnpikes that have the breaks every so often.
The link was a far-away aerial zoom, but I'm assuming you mean a narrow break in the jersey barrier. Yeah, they are more dangerous for several reasons. At least if you run into them directly, usually as a result of losing control of the vehicle and ramming it head-on, they have put those crash attenuators in to soften the blow.
Indirectly, if a motorist using one (especially illegally) pulls into or out of one, they usually don't have the foresight to understand how fast traffic can come at them. When I drive my snowplow truck, I can use U-turn areas legally, but if traffic's busy I won't. It's much safer for me just to continue to the next interchange, even if it's outside my jurisdiction. Not to mention much less stressing about when to pull into traffic. A slow-to-accelerate truck is going to cause issues for traffic...issues which I prefer not to be a part of!!
CT signs the few median breaks it has with a black-on-white vertically mounted rectangle sign reading "EMERGENCY AND AUTHORIZED VEHICLES ONLY". They are few and far between. A couple on I-91, some on I-84, and some on I-95 east of New London. There's a handful on I-395's turnpike section, but none on I-95's section, where its almost one long 88-mile jersey barrier (exception-Norwalk where its still the old grass median).
VT signs them with simple No U-turn signs. I've seen a few confused out of staters use them (illegally, of course). These median breaks are pretty frequent, as the exits are mostly 5-15 miles apart (except in Brattleboro, WRJ, St J, and Burlington). All are in areas where the median is wide and variable. There's one stretch in the whole state, about 3 miles long, where a jersey barrier separates the carriageways... no breaks there, but there is on either side of the barrier zone. There are even some emergency vehicle entrances on I-89 and I-91, signed as such, which provides access from an adjacent street to the interstate, but the gates are closed and locked.
Quote from: roadman on September 08, 2016, 02:33:22 PM
Quote from: cl94 on September 08, 2016, 01:09:35 PM
It's worth noting that each state (and even different agencies within a state) sign them differently. NYSDOT and NYSTA use the pictogram, as do Ohio and the Maine Turnpike Authority. MaineDOT uses a text sign that is hard to view from the travel lanes, while PennDOT uses a text sign in the same position as the U-turn signs in other states.
Massachusetts used to use an "Official Vehicles Only" sign to denote median breaks. However, they've been transitioning to use of a standard No U Turn graphic sign with a "Except Authorized Vehicles" plate as signs are replaced. Some Districts have used an "Authorized Vehicles Only" plate instead, but these are being replaced with the standard "Except Authorized Vehicles" plate.Quote
At least up north, boundaries between states or maintenance regions tend to have 2 crossovers in a row. This facilitates snowplow turnarounds while ensuring that the entire roadway gets full snowplow coverage.
All borders of Massachusetts with adjoining states have this dual turnout setup.
That's where The Welcoming Committee usually sits. On I-84 and I-91, a CT and MA statie will "mate" take your picture with the CT one facing west/southbound traffic, and the MA one facing east/northbound traffic.
Usually in CT, they put them in either long breaks between exits, or at a change in state police troop jurisdiction. I used to call the one on the New Britain/Farmington line on I-84 line The Trees because of the two trees at the top of the hill that obscured them, but the trees have since been removed.
The Kansas Turnpike just uses a normal No U-turn sign (red slash) where there are breaks in the Jersey barrier. On other Interstates in Kansas, crossovers often don't have any signage at all.
I've used them before, but not very frequently. I had a job in southern Illinois once that frequently included making deliveries to the northbound Rend Lake rest area on I-57, when my route had me travelling southbound. A couple of times, after making my delivery, I used the crossover (Except Authorized Vehicles) to resume travelling south to the next town instead of at the Sesser exit. I never felt comfortable doing so, and eventually gave up the practice. Especially with the company phone number on the side of the box truck, it was a complaint (not to mention a ticket) waiting to happen. One of my coworkers said he sometimes used crossovers, but he would sit there with his hazard lights for on a minute to make passing drivers think he'd had to pull over for some reason, then change directions once all of those drivers were long gone.
Quote from: kphoger on September 10, 2016, 12:43:56 PM
The Kansas Turnpike just uses a normal No U-turn sign (red slash) where there are breaks in the Jersey barrier. On other Interstates in Kansas, crossovers often don't have any signage at all.
I've used them before, but not very frequently. I had a job in southern Illinois once that frequently included making deliveries to the northbound Rend Lake rest area on I-57, when my route had me travelling southbound. A couple of times, after making my delivery, I used the crossover (Except Authorized Vehicles) to resume travelling south to the next town instead of at the Sesser exit. I never felt comfortable doing so, and eventually gave up the practice. Especially with the company phone number on the side of the box truck, it was a complaint (not to mention a ticket) waiting to happen. One of my coworkers said he sometimes used crossovers, but he would sit there with his hazard lights for on a minute to make passing drivers think he'd had to pull over for some reason, then change directions once all of those drivers were long gone.
I avoid using the crossovers - even when I am doing official work in the field work and am allowed enter them. I will happily drive to the next interchange and turn around by riding the ramps instead.
Here's a pretty nice one on I-5 in Everett:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6YyZpdi.jpg&hash=d82793203efffb20a3fdb3eaf47a114b19783f26)
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.9313868,-122.1962619,3a,75y,291.96h,88.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1segE9QakSgjA4Hrp8d3AAyA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DegE9QakSgjA4Hrp8d3AAyA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D191.45154%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1
Its funny on the Florida Turnpike we have to make u turns at exits while in transit to a plaza. Especially in state vehicles we have to drive them around, and the state even supplies the Sunpass for its vehicles as we have to pay the toll to u turn someplace.
The Osceola Plaza at Exit 249 has the parking for toll workers on the SB ramp where you must drive the freeway to access it. To go from the administration building to the NB entry ramp (lanes 4 & 6) we take the state vehicle over to it, park it in a special lot there, and when we return we must enter the freeway then exit at FL 417 to go to another interchange that has two ramp tolls (one exiting and the other re-entering) and then the opposite way on FL 417 to return to the SB Turnpike to exit at 249 to go back to the counting facility!
Nevada DOT now signs paved crossovers with a "No U Turn" symbol sign and a plaque underneath reading "Authorized Vehicles Only". (I personally think the plaque should say "Except Authorized Vehicles" or "Authorized Vehicles OK" instead, to better convey the intent.)
To mark the actual location of the crossover, NDOT has a object marker which is a vertical black rectangle with two blue squares on either end. The object marker is posted on both upstream and downstream edges of the crossover pavement, as well as a specific distance upstream of the crossover (not sure how far upstream this is).
Example on I-580 near the Galena Creek Bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3679743,-119.763498,3a,16.9y,207.12h,87.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ2yOKB9rxFtT4mbL1lBBew!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (the U-turn sign is larger than on conventional divided highways in this example).
I just wonder -- would a DOT employee, driving their own personal vehicle, be considered "authorized" if they were using a median crossover for roadgeeking purposes?
I may end up having to do that this week to get a full view of every approach of the new I-69/Western Kentucky Parkway/Pennyrile Parkway interchange. There are exits within a mile or two on both sides of the WK, and a state police post in the median of the WK just east of the interchange, but it's about 12 miles to an interchange west of the interchange on the portion of the WK that is now I-69.
I've thought about buying a couple of KYTC logo magnets to put on the doors of my vehicle for just such purposes.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 02, 2016, 07:31:57 PM
I just wonder -- would a DOT employee, driving their own personal vehicle, be considered "authorized" if they were using a median crossover for roadgeeking purposes?
I may end up having to do that this week to get a full view of every approach of the new I-69/Western Kentucky Parkway/Pennyrile Parkway interchange. There are exits within a mile or two on both sides of the WK, and a state police post in the median of the WK just east of the interchange, but it's about 12 miles to an interchange west of the interchange on the portion of the WK that is now I-69.
I've thought about buying a couple of KYTC logo magnets to put on the doors of my vehicle for just such purposes.
Show your ID if you get pulled over. Magnets might not hurt as well.
Around Christmas last year, my family and I drove up to New York. On the NJTP, I noticed people cut between the 'Cars Only' lanes and the 'General Purpose' lanes using the crossovers
Quote from: hbelkins on October 02, 2016, 07:31:57 PM
I just wonder -- would a DOT employee, driving their own personal vehicle, be considered "authorized" if they were using a median crossover for roadgeeking purposes?
I may end up having to do that this week to get a full view of every approach of the new I-69/Western Kentucky Parkway/Pennyrile Parkway interchange. There are exits within a mile or two on both sides of the WK, and a state police post in the median of the WK just east of the interchange, but it's about 12 miles to an interchange west of the interchange on the portion of the WK that is now I-69.
I've thought about buying a couple of KYTC logo magnets to put on the doors of my vehicle for just such purposes.
DOT employees, or anyone for that matter, not performing their duties in the normal course of business, can't use the u-turns. And if you were to be in an accident with those logos and not on state business, now not only did you make an illegal U-turn, but you're also mis-using state equipment.
If it doesn't belong to the state, how can I misuse state equipment? :-p
Quote from: hbelkins on October 03, 2016, 12:08:50 PM
If it doesn't belong to the state, how can I misuse state equipment? :-p
I was going to mention that. It's his personal car, but with a KYTC magnet.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on October 02, 2016, 09:18:32 PM
Around Christmas last year, my family and I drove up to New York. On the NJTP, I noticed people cut between the 'Cars Only' lanes and the 'General Purpose' lanes using the crossovers
Pretty common in slow traffic. I've also seen people drive over the curb separating the local and express lanes on I-95 approaching the GW Bridge on the Jersey side when traffic is slow.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 03, 2016, 12:08:50 PM
If it doesn't belong to the state, how can I misuse state equipment? :-p
Then it's probably not an authorized vehicle either!
Quote from: cl94 on October 03, 2016, 12:33:21 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 03, 2016, 12:08:50 PM
If it doesn't belong to the state, how can I misuse state equipment? :-p
I was going to mention that. It's his personal car, but with a KYTC magnet.
Then it's probably not an authorized vehicle!!
He never said it was an authorized vehicle
Quote from: jwolfer on September 08, 2016, 11:02:23 PM
In Florida on I -10 there are crossovers for hurricane evacuation contra flow, just east of 295 and 75. They are blocked with plastic pylons.
Other freeways in the Southeast and gulf coast have it as well
Like I-95 in southern North Carolina.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on October 03, 2016, 01:53:33 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on September 08, 2016, 11:02:23 PM
In Florida on I -10 there are crossovers for hurricane evacuation contra flow, just east of 295 and 75. They are blocked with plastic pylons.
Other freeways in the Southeast and gulf coast have it as well
Like I-95 in southern North Carolina.
That's interesting, when I was a kid going from Fayetteville to Florence, SC, I thought the pavement in the median was part of old US 301.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 02, 2016, 07:31:57 PM
I've thought about buying a couple of KYTC logo magnets to put on the doors of my vehicle for just such purposes.
At least up here, government logos can be trademarked and, in essence, you'd be impersonating a state "official." If you were caught, you may make the news, if only because weirdos that do this sort of thing bring ratings. :D
Like someone else said, doesn't matter if you're a state employee or not. If you're just gallivanting around on your own and not fulfilling your professional duties, what you're doing is illegal. At least up here, even if you were in an official DOT vehicle (say one of the Dodge Caravans NYSDOT has), a state trooper might raise an eyebrow.
Of course, it's not very likely that you'd get caught just using the turnaround, anyway.