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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: Rover_0 on October 30, 2009, 12:48:07 PM

Title: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Rover_0 on October 30, 2009, 12:48:07 PM
I've been wondering, how does your state primarily mark diagonal (either US or State) routes--N-S or E-W?  Or do they switch in-route?  How should diagonal routes be labeled?

Here in Utah, it seems the majority of diagonal state routes are labeled East-West.  Four cases in point:  UT-31, UT-59, UT-62, and UT-95.  UT-31, UT-62, and UT-95 are especially "steep" in portions (appears to be N-S), while UT-59's mileposts actually start at the southeast end and increase as you go northwest, though the signs say "East UT-59" and "West UT-59."  I always thought that UT-95 was labled N-S, until I saw signs that said otherwise.

I also was impression that UT-62, from US-89 near Junction to the UT-22 junction north of Antimony, was labled E-W, while from UT-22 to UT-24 (northeast end) UT-62 was labled N-S, with the majority of the route's direction going in a NNE-SSW manner.  However, some (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=38.567613,-111.839956&spn=0,359.692039&z=12&layer=c&cbll=38.567613,-111.839956&panoid=9CNyG4qk2-mRE-EixBWWJQ&cbp=12,7.84,,0,5.7) looks at Google Maps' Street View seem to show that UT-62 is marked E-W from the time it leaves UT-24 (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=38.568032,-111.84082&spn=0,359.692039&z=12&layer=c&cbll=38.56817,-111.840655&panoid=qjk02NjeKCkg_CwgUW2UYg&cbp=12,258.58,,0,4.3).

As for US routes, there really aren't any, though US-491 (former US-666), despite being a N-S route for most of its national length, is labled E-W for its 18 or so miles in Utah.  If AASHTO managed to let UDOT extend then-US-666 to Richfield, then it would no doubt be E-W, and rather diagonal.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: hbelkins on October 30, 2009, 02:51:58 PM
If the state has any kind of system, it should follow it.

For the US routes, one would think the numbering convention would be followed, but not quite. US 42 is an east-west route in Kentucky but is a north-south route in Ohio.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: rawmustard on October 30, 2009, 03:48:31 PM
Probably Michigan's best example is M-115. I've seen photos where it's signed N-S closer to Clare, while it's signed E-W closer to Frankfort. Probably the only other existing trunkline that comes close to being diagonal is M-50, but it is signed E-W as that is the direction it trends, probably moreso when it extended all the way to US-31. I can't say for certain how M-76 was signed, but it was decommissioned long before the trend to include directional tabs with every reassurance marker. Other than those, there really aren't any other diagonal trunklines in Michigan.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: 74/171FAN on October 30, 2009, 03:53:11 PM
Virginia has VA 30 which is signed east-west from US 1 in Doswell to VA 33 in West Point but south of West Point to its end at US 60 it's signed north-south(including the VA 33 multiplex)
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Michael on October 30, 2009, 04:12:11 PM
New York's I-88 is diagonal, but is more east-west, and is signed accordingly.  US 11 remains signed north-south, even though it almost turns east-west north of Watertown.  NY 3 changes direction in the middle of it's route, and signs reflect that.  The northern (eastern) end of NY 326 is signed north-south for .7 mile, while the rest of the route is east-west.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: mightyace on October 30, 2009, 05:56:03 PM
A long time ago, I remember seeing both "SOUTH" and "EAST" and/or "S-EAST" on top of a OH 37 sign somewhere.

That was over 30 years ago, so I don't remember where let alone whether the practice is still in use today.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Duke87 on October 30, 2009, 07:03:00 PM
Randomly, it would seem. CT 106 is north-south. CT 107 and CT 136 are east-west. CT 35 is north-south, despite the fact that it's continuous with east-west NY 35.

Connecticut also has several state routes which are generally L-shaped. CT 22 actually switches from north-south to east-west midway due to this. It has a west end and a south end. What's the direction of index there, eh? :spin:


I'd say the best methodology for diagonal routes is to compare the latitude and longitude of their endpoints. Whichever component is greater gets the directional signage. Although, continuity is also important. CT 35 should be signed east-west to be continuous with NY 35 even if it is kinda more north-south. L-shaped routes should just be avoided wherever possible.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: kurumi on October 31, 2009, 02:47:51 AM
From the CT highway log:
Officially NS: 40 72 106 107 110 113 120 131 136 150 US202 213 254 262
Officially EW: US1A 22 31 67 74 128 156 185 194 215 216 218 322 337 354

I know that the following are sometimes signed opposite from the log direction: 72 202 22 31 67
72's direction arises from its historical alignment.
354 being considered east-west is a surprise. Looks more N/S to me.

Aren't/weren't there some routes in Ohio marked NE/SW?

Also: I-820 isn't diagonal, but at TX 183 you can choose southbound or westbound: photo at http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/ix20.html#820tx (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/ix20.html#820tx)


Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: wytout on October 31, 2009, 06:19:29 AM
I think that in CT we generally keep one set of cardinal directions in place for an entire route. Route 2 and Route 9 are nearly parallel NW to SE diagonal routes.  Route 2 is marked E-W for it's entirety and Route 9 is marked N-S for it's entirety.  Route 9 DOES have a more NNW to SSE physical routing than Route 2. 

One MA State route that always fascinated me as a kid was N-S marked Route 28, Which heads steeply diagonally NNW to SSE to the cape, heads dead south from the Bourne Bridge, then the fun begins.  The road turns ENE While maintaining the SOUTH directional on signage.  It continues generally East and slightly to the north for about 30 miles to Chatham where it turns heading NNW then pretty much dead north to terminate at the Orleans Rotary where it meets US6 and MA 6A, all the while being marked SOUTH.  Essential the southern-most 40 miles of this road are marked consistently with the rest of the route, but at no time is the road actually travelling in the direction that the signage says it is. 
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Chris on October 31, 2009, 06:56:05 AM
How about US 101? It clearly runs east-west in the San Fernando Valley to past Santa Barbara, but I think it's signed as north-south.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: RoadWarrior56 on October 31, 2009, 09:33:36 AM
Check out US 321 in eastern Tenessee.  It changes direction from north to south!
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: ctsignguy on October 31, 2009, 12:21:54 PM
Quote from: mightyace on October 30, 2009, 05:56:03 PM
A long time ago, I remember seeing both "SOUTH" and "EAST" and/or "S-EAST" on top of a OH 37 sign somewhere.

That was over 30 years ago, so I don't remember where let alone whether the practice is still in use today.

At one time, Ohio DID use tabs labelled N-EAST, N-WEST, S-EAST, and S-WEST for diagonal routes...that practice was ended sometime in the 1980s (prolly Federal pressure as usual), although you could still find them out in the wilds as late as the late 90s....

(used to have those four tabs too.....*snifflesob!*
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: getemngo on October 31, 2009, 12:44:10 PM
Quote from: wytout on October 31, 2009, 06:19:29 AM
One MA State route that always fascinated me as a kid was N-S marked Route 28, Which heads steeply diagonally NNW to SSE to the cape, heads dead south from the Bourne Bridge, then the fun begins.  The road turns ENE While maintaining the SOUTH directional on signage.  It continues generally East and slightly to the north for about 30 miles to Chatham where it turns heading NNW then pretty much dead north to terminate at the Orleans Rotary where it meets US6 and MA 6A, all the while being marked SOUTH.  Essential the southern-most 40 miles of this road are marked consistently with the rest of the route, but at no time is the road actually travelling in the direction that the signage says it is. 
Michigan's M-123 is similar.  It starts off south of Trout Lake as a standard N-S route, occasionally trending NW-SE.  Then, in Paradise, it turns due west while still being signed NORTH.  After a few more miles it bends southwest, and in the last few miles through Newberry you're heading due south when the directional tabs say NORTH!  The "northern" terminus also happens to be at M-28, a highway that it already crossed 20 miles to the east.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: andytom on October 31, 2009, 01:40:17 PM
Quote from: Chris on October 31, 2009, 06:56:05 AM
How about US 101? It clearly runs east-west in the San Fernando Valley to past Santa Barbara, but I think it's signed as north-south.

US-101 does have a section labeled East-West in WA across the north part of the Olympic peninsula.  10 yrs ago (the last time that I was up there) that wasn't the case.  It was all North-South, but it swapped direction in Port Angeles.  You always left Port Angeles going south on US-101 no matter whether you were actually travelling east or west.

--Andy
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Alps on October 31, 2009, 02:02:56 PM
In NJ, most of the diagonal routes are north-south, even if the diagonality is questionable.  208, 23, 17, and 15 are all roughly parallel NW-SE and signed N-S.  NJ 94 is WSW-ENE and yet is still signed N-S.  NJ 18 used to be signed east-west when it was NJ S-28, but now it's north-south like the others.  The exceptions are NJ 3 and NJ 49, which run WNW-ESE and are signed east-west.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Mergingtraffic on October 31, 2009, 02:11:30 PM
Also, in CT US-1 & I-95 are signed North & South and in CT actually run East & West. The state police refer to it as East & West.

But I think roads should be signed based on their ending points.  Even though I-95 is technically East & West in CT, if you driveit long enough you will end up at a designation that is SOUTH or NORTH of here. So, N&S signage is correct!

I would say the same for US-101 in CA!
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Mr. Matté on October 31, 2009, 02:13:04 PM
NJ's diagonal county routes are mixed on diagonals.  537 which pretty much is diagonal is signed E/W while 571 switches directions in every new county.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Duke87 on October 31, 2009, 02:20:33 PM
Quote from: doofy103 on October 31, 2009, 02:11:30 PM
Also, in CT US-1 & I-95 are signed North & South and in CT actually run East & West. The state police refer to it as East & West.

I could have sworn I saw a sign somewhere once referring to Route 1 as East versus West. I think it was in Mystic...
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Hellfighter on October 31, 2009, 02:32:20 PM
The only Example that comes to mind is M-10/Lodge Freeway, which at glance, goes more east-west than north-south, especially the northern section, yet MDOT signs it as North-South.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: florida on October 31, 2009, 10:10:32 PM
FL 24 is signed east/west along its entire diagonal self.
FL 200 is signed north/south (I believe).
The diagonal part of FL 405 is signed east/west (on approaches from FL 407 and US 1), but the rest is signed north/south, and there are no direction tabs on signs along US 1 in downtown Titusville.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: SSOWorld on October 31, 2009, 11:00:07 PM
US 52 is a prime example

It is marked N-S in Iowa and Minnesota (MN is marked only St. Paul Southeastward, but it is marked E-W in North Dakota, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio (dunno about east of there, but I'm sure there's more Nouth-South markings (WV?, VA?, NC?)
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: hbelkins on October 31, 2009, 11:28:29 PM
Quote from: Master son on October 31, 2009, 11:00:07 PM
US 52 is a prime example

It is marked N-S in Iowa and Minnesota (MN is marked only St. Paul Southeastward, but it is marked E-W in North Dakota, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio (dunno about east of there, but I'm sure there's more Nouth-South markings (WV?, VA?, NC?)

US 52 is N-S in all three of those states you mentioned. Not sure how it's signed in South Carolina.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: rawmustard on October 31, 2009, 11:31:29 PM
Quote from: Hellfighter on October 31, 2009, 02:32:20 PM
The only Example that comes to mind is M-10/Lodge Freeway, which at glance, goes more east-west than north-south, especially the northern section, yet MDOT signs it as North-South.

Dang, I had forgotten about M-10. Probably the reason that is N-S is because US-10 was N-S when it occupied the Lodge (and all the way to Bay City).
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: froggie on November 01, 2009, 05:50:44 AM
QuoteI could have sworn I saw a sign somewhere once referring to Route 1 as East versus West. I think it was in Mystic...

Years ago, there was one coming off the Hammonasset Beach connector at Exit 62 in Clinton.  Haven't been back there since '01 though.


QuoteUS 52 is N-S in all three of those states you mentioned. Not sure how it's signed in South Carolina.

According to Mike Roberson, it's signed both E-W and N-S within South Carolina.  My one experience, in Cheraw, it's signed north-south.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Chris on November 01, 2009, 10:03:53 AM
Quote from: andytom on October 31, 2009, 01:40:17 PM

US-101 does have a section labeled East-West in WA across the north part of the Olympic peninsula.  10 yrs ago (the last time that I was up there) that wasn't the case.  It was all North-South, but it swapped direction in Port Angeles.  You always left Port Angeles going south on US-101 no matter whether you were actually travelling east or west.

--Andy


Is the northbound part from Olympia to Port Angeles signed south? That would be odd  :pan: It turns south later across the peninsula though.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Hellfighter on November 01, 2009, 03:27:26 PM
I found a new one that qualifies. M-85 between I-75 and Oakman Bvrd is North-South. But on the northern part from the Rouge to Downtown...

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2583%2F3666417099_32f24bf689_b.jpg&hash=290dbf031490b482eac72dc9c4c98a27abef4194)
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Mergingtraffic on November 01, 2009, 03:38:24 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 31, 2009, 02:20:33 PM
Quote from: doofy103 on October 31, 2009, 02:11:30 PM
Also, in CT US-1 & I-95 are signed North & South and in CT actually run East & West. The state police refer to it as East & West.

I could have sworn I saw a sign somewhere once referring to Route 1 as East versus West. I think it was in Mystic...

Actually, you probably did...I saw one on US-1 in Norwalk saying E&W...but I noticed if I-95 signs it in a BGS...it usually N & S.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Riverside Frwy on November 01, 2009, 05:47:13 PM
You would think that East/West North/South designation would be as "official" as the route number designation itself.Instead, they seem to just put them on there willy-nilly. :crazy:
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Michael on November 02, 2009, 10:22:13 AM
I'm surprised that nobody has brought up the eastern (western?) end of I-64!
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: deathtopumpkins on November 02, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
Because its been beaten to death already elsewhere.  :ded:
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: travelinmiles on November 02, 2009, 12:30:52 PM
I know US 83 through the Rio Grande Valley in South Texas is signed east-west from Roma to the Mexican Border. Im not sure about the US 77 through the multiplex from Harlingen to Brownsville.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Rover_0 on November 02, 2009, 04:57:53 PM
Quote from: travelinmiles on November 02, 2009, 12:30:52 PM
I know US 83 through the Rio Grande Valley in South Texas is signed east-west from Roma to the Mexican Border. Im not sure about the US 77 through the multiplex from Harlingen to Brownsville.

As is US-59, from Houston to Laredo.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: hm insulators on November 03, 2009, 11:36:22 AM
Quote from: Chris on October 31, 2009, 06:56:05 AM
How about US 101? It clearly runs east-west in the San Fernando Valley to past Santa Barbara, but I think it's signed as north-south.

Ditto a segment of the I-405: Although signed north/south, the segment between California 22 and Rosecrans Avenue runs almost due east/west. South of the 22, it's a diagonal until it ties into the "El Toro 'Y'." So the 405 runs due north/south only north of the sharp curve (the "South Bay Curve") at Rosecrans.

The stretch of US 60 from Phoenix to Wickenburg is a diagonal; it's known as Grand Avenue out to about Sun City West or so.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Alps on November 03, 2009, 06:43:21 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 31, 2009, 02:20:33 PM
Quote from: doofy103 on October 31, 2009, 02:11:30 PM
Also, in CT US-1 & I-95 are signed North & South and in CT actually run East & West. The state police refer to it as East & West.

I could have sworn I saw a sign somewhere once referring to Route 1 as East versus West. I think it was in Mystic...
Several still left, though I only know of one on I-95 (one of the SB offramps).  US 1 was entirely east-west once upon a time, but first western CT (southwest of New Haven) went N/S and then the rest of the state followed suit.  If you do find any (and I have several on my site), it's a rarity.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: 3467 on January 06, 2010, 11:43:42 PM
Interstate 74 though well I have said it before ......

The New Illinois 336 is signed South Quincy at its current end in Macomb
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: kurumi on January 07, 2010, 12:14:32 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 31, 2009, 02:20:33 PM
Quote from: doofy103 on October 31, 2009, 02:11:30 PM
Also, in CT US-1 & I-95 are signed North & South and in CT actually run East & West. The state police refer to it as East & West.

I could have sworn I saw a sign somewhere once referring to Route 1 as East versus West. I think it was in Mystic...

At the US 1 / CT 124 intersection in Darien, in 2004, US 1 was marked east/west and north/south (depending on which signing assembly you consulted): see top photo on http://www.kurumi.com/roads/ct/us1.html
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: TheStranger on January 07, 2010, 12:24:45 AM
The best juxtaposition of diagonal routes with different directional approaches would be the pairing of I-71 (north-south) and US 42 (east-west) from Louisville to Cleveland!  I've always felt the route was much more north-south to begin with.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 07, 2010, 01:32:42 AM
Quote from: ctsignguy on October 31, 2009, 12:21:54 PM
At one time, Ohio DID use tabs labelled N-EAST, N-WEST, S-EAST, and S-WEST for diagonal routes...that practice was ended sometime in the 1980s (prolly Federal pressure as usual), although you could still find them out in the wilds as late as the late 90s....

(used to have those four tabs too.....*snifflesob!*

I could've sworn I had a photo of such a thing, courtesy of Michael Summa... alas, this is the closest I can do.

(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/OH/OH19700331i1.jpg)
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: hbelkins on January 07, 2010, 01:22:04 PM
I have a photo of one of the diagonal-direction signs from Ohio -- think it's US 33 in Columbus -- that someone sent to me several years ago.

Regarding US 42, it's signed E-W in Kentucky but N-S in Ohio. Ohio also signs US 68 N-S as opposed to E-W in Kentucky, and US 35 E-W as opposed to N-S in both West Virginia and Indiana.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: corco on January 07, 2010, 02:01:35 PM
Wyoming 120 and US-310 in Wyoming are both signed as East-West, even though they're just slightly off-kilter from running along a vertical axis (a very "tight" diagonal if you will), which makes it quite confusing. WYO 120 East actually runs SOUTHWEST for a decent amount of time

Otherwise, WYO 28, 34, and 114 (all more "true" diagonals) are signed east-west
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: TheStranger on January 07, 2010, 03:30:49 PM
I-30 (east-west) and US 67 (ostensibly north-south) parallel each other significantly from Dallas to Little Rock.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 08, 2010, 12:24:43 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 07, 2010, 01:22:04 PM
I have a photo of one of the diagonal-direction signs from Ohio -- think it's US 33 in Columbus -- that someone sent to me several years ago.

That's ok, I've forgotten whose website I sent that photo to as well.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: hbelkins on January 08, 2010, 11:02:11 PM
Quote from: osu-lsu on January 08, 2010, 12:24:43 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 07, 2010, 01:22:04 PM
I have a photo of one of the diagonal-direction signs from Ohio -- think it's US 33 in Columbus -- that someone sent to me several years ago.

That's ok, I've forgotten whose website I sent that photo to as well.

I thought it was you, since you were in that area at the time, but wasn't going to commit that to print and be later proven wrong. I've got a reputation to uphold!  :-D
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: roadman65 on May 15, 2011, 08:30:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 31, 2009, 11:28:29 PM
Quote from: Master son on October 31, 2009, 11:00:07 PM
US 52 is a prime example

It is marked N-S in Iowa and Minnesota (MN is marked only St. Paul Southeastward, but it is marked E-W in North Dakota, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio (dunno about east of there, but I'm sure there's more Nouth-South markings (WV?, VA?, NC?)

US 52 is N-S in all three of those states you mentioned. Not sure how it's signed in South Carolina.

It is now E-W in SC spite that it runs N-S in that state and where it meets US 521 it has NB US 521 to the right of EB US 52 and SB to the left of it.  It is very confusing and they should sign it N-S.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: ftballfan on May 16, 2011, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: getemngo on October 31, 2009, 12:44:10 PM
Quote from: wytout on October 31, 2009, 06:19:29 AM
One MA State route that always fascinated me as a kid was N-S marked Route 28, Which heads steeply diagonally NNW to SSE to the cape, heads dead south from the Bourne Bridge, then the fun begins.  The road turns ENE While maintaining the SOUTH directional on signage.  It continues generally East and slightly to the north for about 30 miles to Chatham where it turns heading NNW then pretty much dead north to terminate at the Orleans Rotary where it meets US6 and MA 6A, all the while being marked SOUTH.  Essential the southern-most 40 miles of this road are marked consistently with the rest of the route, but at no time is the road actually travelling in the direction that the signage says it is. 
Michigan's M-123 is similar.  It starts off south of Trout Lake as a standard N-S route, occasionally trending NW-SE.  Then, in Paradise, it turns due west while still being signed NORTH.  After a few more miles it bends southwest, and in the last few miles through Newberry you're heading due south when the directional tabs say NORTH!  The "northern" terminus also happens to be at M-28, a highway that it already crossed 20 miles to the east.
M-22 in Michigan is quite similar to those two. It starts north of Manistee at US-31, runs generally N-S with an occasional E-W jog (it closely follows the Lake Michigan shoreline north of Onekama), then turns back south at Northport and ends at US-31 (again!) in Traverse City (pointless, since the last mile or so is cosigned with M-72, which continues on the east side of Traverse City).

Back on topic, I think M-115 trends more east-west along its entire route (it is running due east-west at both of its termini). I do remember M-115 southeast of Cadillac being signed N-S, but now, I think the entire length is signed E-W.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: pianocello on May 16, 2011, 10:16:28 PM
I hate the highways that change from n-s to e-w in the middle of the route (like I-69 in Michigan). IMO, 69 should be n-s all the way to Port Huron.

In Iowa, diagonal state highways are signed in its general direction. For example, hwy 130 is e-w and (as far as I know) hwy 60 is n-s. I'm pretty sure hwy 163 is e-w, but I'm not sure about hwy 330.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on May 17, 2011, 12:13:16 AM
When in doubt, sign both directions.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2F62en.JPG&hash=a3cdb90609257610493fd471414e2a579edff74c)
US 62 (Nelson Road) in Bexley (Eastern Columbus suburb) just north of Broad Street (US 40)
I took that photo in 2003, so I don't know which one (or if both) still stands there. I didn't think of including it on the C-bus tour on Saturday.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: JCinSummerfield on May 17, 2011, 08:24:53 AM
I've often felt the eastern leg of M-123 should be an extension of US-23 or US-31.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Quillz on May 17, 2011, 09:37:35 AM
Quote from: Chris on October 31, 2009, 06:56:05 AM
How about US 101? It clearly runs east-west in the San Fernando Valley to past Santa Barbara, but I think it's signed as north-south.
Caltrans has signed some FREEWAY ENTRANCE locations with "west" and "east" directions, but the actual reassurance markers on the freeway continue to state either "north" or "south."
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Fcexpress80 on July 03, 2011, 04:52:03 PM
I-82 in Washington State is an example of an Interstate that is diagonal.  When one looks at the end points, it is actually more north/south than east/west.  I would guess is it signed as an "even" interstate when you look at the corridor it serves from I-80 near Salt Lake City to I-90 and Seattle via I-84.  This corridor as a whole is diagonal and is more east/west than north/south.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: formulanone on July 03, 2011, 05:39:16 PM
Quote from: RoadWarrior56 on October 31, 2009, 09:33:36 AM
Check out US 321 in eastern Tenessee.  It changes direction from north to south!

Wished I read this before I visited the Lenoir City area; this tripped me up at least once, although not as much as some of the non-labeled backroads did.

State Road 710 is as close to a pure diagonal route in Florida as possible, about 4-5 miles of it was east-west, but 90% of its length runs parallel to the railway line from Palm Beach to Okeechobee. I'll have to check some of my pics to see how it was labeled.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: NE2 on July 03, 2011, 05:52:04 PM
Lake County used to use diagonal directions for CR 450 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=28.9455&lon=-81.6781&zoom=14&layers=M) and CR 450A (to the south), but they're now east-west.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Sykotyk on July 03, 2011, 10:58:54 PM
Quote from: Rover_0 on November 02, 2009, 04:57:53 PM
Quote from: travelinmiles on November 02, 2009, 12:30:52 PM
I know US 83 through the Rio Grande Valley in South Texas is signed east-west from Roma to the Mexican Border. Im not sure about the US 77 through the multiplex from Harlingen to Brownsville.

As is US-59, from Houston to Laredo.

I've been on 59 from Laredo to Houston many times and am quite certain it's signed N/S. US83 changes course from N/S to E/W, and I was in Brownsville and don't quite remember (although I think I would if it, too, changed) that US77 is labeled N/S on the multiplex with US83.

Also, US101 east of Port Angeles, WA is labeled E/W before changing to backward N/S to Olympia. Can't quite remember _where_ it changed at, but I did notice it when I was clinching counties last month.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: ctsignguy on July 04, 2011, 12:11:58 AM
Here are the old Ohio tabs in question...

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2FBlasts%2520from%2520the%2520Past%2Fimg015.jpg&hash=dbeb952f754ba5ead484768817ac45139e0ed5bb)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2FBlasts%2520from%2520the%2520Past%2Fimg014.jpg&hash=ca69972b8649d3c892e89c8398da4f55e7e6cc27)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2FBlasts%2520from%2520the%2520Past%2Fimg009.jpg&hash=0b6acdc469559e90d47555fc0e88914ef2250109)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2FBlasts%2520from%2520the%2520Past%2Fimg008.jpg&hash=715e4ec4f54c646b5e6f131cee67c0ccfc858406)

And from my last trip to Connecticut
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2F2010%2520Get%2520the%2520Hell%2520Out%2520of%2520Town%2520Tour%2FDSCF0048.jpg&hash=efcfc7c5d43a5ec2fedcd74121d5961f353569fb)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi166.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu102%2Fctsignguy%2F2010%2520Get%2520the%2520Hell%2520Out%2520of%2520Town%2520Tour%2FDSCF0047.jpg&hash=1c4e65e8f6aa5ff8feead7cbc70265f4843fc21f)
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: myosh_tino on July 04, 2011, 02:42:12 AM
Quote from: Quillz on May 17, 2011, 09:37:35 AM
Quote from: Chris on October 31, 2009, 06:56:05 AM
How about US 101? It clearly runs east-west in the San Fernando Valley to past Santa Barbara, but I think it's signed as north-south.
Caltrans has signed some FREEWAY ENTRANCE locations with "west" and "east" directions, but the actual reassurance markers on the freeway continue to state either "north" or "south."
That happened during the construction of CA-85 back in the 90's.  The De Anza Blvd on-ramps had Freeway Entrance assemblies that had CA-85 running east-west.  While that segment of the freeway ran northwest to southeast and the southern section runs essentially east-west, the freeway was and is signed as north-south.

Enough readers alerted Gary Richards (Mr. Roadshow, SJ Mercury News) that he notified Caltrans of the error which was corrected in about a week.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: hbelkins on July 04, 2011, 01:46:19 PM
When US 62 was rebuilt between I-64 and Georgetown, Ky. a few years ago, contractors installed north-south signage. The road does run pretty much N-S in that location and indeed it is signed that way in New York, but in Kentucky it's signed as an E-W highway. The signage was later changed, I think by KYTC.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Icodec on July 07, 2011, 02:13:15 PM
If it's more N-S, then so it shall be marked and same with E-W.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: KEK Inc. on July 07, 2011, 02:25:33 PM
CA-85 is signed as N-S, but it is pretty much exactly diagonal in retrospect.  It perpendicularly intersects CA-17 and CA-87, which are both N-S highways.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: vtk on July 08, 2011, 05:42:37 PM
US 33 and US 35 are consistently signed E-W in Ohio, and I think that's probably the right choice, particularly with US 35.  (There's a car dealership in Marysville that advertises in the Columbus market, saying something like "just 9 minutes north of I-270 on US 33" -- they really should pay attention to the signs!)  US 42 is signed N-S, and I suppose that one could go either way.  US 62 really does go either way -- northeast of Columbus, I think it's mostly E-W but I doubt it's consistent; coupled with OH 3 it's always N-S; south of Washington CH I think it's a mix of N-S and E-W though it's mostly a N-S route geographically.  Considering US 62 goes from Mexico to Canada and hooks west at its "east" end, it probably should have been given an odd number to begin with.  US 68 is signed N-S, and rightfully so: in Ohio, it's not even diagonal! (Looking at its map on Wikipedia, US 68 looks more like 3 distinct routes glued together...)  I-71 and OH 3 are both signed N-S, though they really could just as well be E-W; it's probably good that ODOT has I-71, US 42, and OH 3 all signed in the same direction.  OH 37 is a pretty good NNW-SSE route from Findlay to just west of Dublin, but from there it can't seem to decide if it wants to go due south or due east.  I can't blame ODOT or its various districts if direction signing isn't consistent on that one.  Really, the various segments of OH 37 have no business pretending to be a single highway.  And then there's OH 104, a pretty solid N-S route along the west bank of the Scioto, until it hooks due east on the Frank-Refugee Expressway; signage on the latter is mixed between N-S and E-W.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: ctsignguy on July 10, 2011, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: vtk on July 08, 2011, 05:42:37 PM
US 33 and US 35 are consistently signed E-W in Ohio, and I think that's probably the right choice, particularly with US 35.  (There's a car dealership in Marysville that advertises in the Columbus market, saying something like "just 9 minutes north of I-270 on US 33" -- they really should pay attention to the signs!)  US 42 is signed N-S, and I suppose that one could go either way.  US 62 really does go either way -- northeast of Columbus, I think it's mostly E-W but I doubt it's consistent; coupled with OH 3 it's always N-S; south of Washington CH I think it's a mix of N-S and E-W though it's mostly a N-S route geographically.  Considering US 62 goes from Mexico to Canada and hooks west at its "east" end, it probably should have been given an odd number to begin with.  US 68 is signed N-S, and rightfully so: in Ohio, it's not even diagonal! (Looking at its map on Wikipedia, US 68 looks more like 3 distinct routes glued together...)  I-71 and OH 3 are both signed N-S, though they really could just as well be E-W; it's probably good that ODOT has I-71, US 42, and OH 3 all signed in the same direction.  OH 37 is a pretty good NNW-SSE route from Findlay to just west of Dublin, but from there it can't seem to decide if it wants to go due south or due east.  I can't blame ODOT or its various districts if direction signing isn't consistent on that one.  Really, the various segments of OH 37 have no business pretending to be a single highway.  And then there's OH 104, a pretty solid N-S route along the west bank of the Scioto, until it hooks due east on the Frank-Refugee Expressway; signage on the latter is mixed between N-S and E-W.

Years ago, when the N-East, N-West et al tabs were dropped from use, a chap from ODOT told me the method they used to mark the weird routes like US 33 and US 62.....they would lay out the route on a map of Ohio and determine if the path was more E-W or more N-S through the state, and use those tabs accordingly.  Hence, US 33 and 35 are more E-W...and US 42 was more N-S  I think 62 was a toss-up, which is why the confusion in how it is marked, even in the same town or city...
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: sandwalk on July 10, 2011, 09:55:59 AM
Quote from: ctsignguy on July 10, 2011, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: vtk on July 08, 2011, 05:42:37 PM
US 33 and US 35 are consistently signed E-W in Ohio, and I think that's probably the right choice, particularly with US 35.  (There's a car dealership in Marysville that advertises in the Columbus market, saying something like "just 9 minutes north of I-270 on US 33" -- they really should pay attention to the signs!)  US 42 is signed N-S, and I suppose that one could go either way.  US 62 really does go either way -- northeast of Columbus, I think it's mostly E-W but I doubt it's consistent; coupled with OH 3 it's always N-S; south of Washington CH I think it's a mix of N-S and E-W though it's mostly a N-S route geographically.  Considering US 62 goes from Mexico to Canada and hooks west at its "east" end, it probably should have been given an odd number to begin with.  US 68 is signed N-S, and rightfully so: in Ohio, it's not even diagonal! (Looking at its map on Wikipedia, US 68 looks more like 3 distinct routes glued together...)  I-71 and OH 3 are both signed N-S, though they really could just as well be E-W; it's probably good that ODOT has I-71, US 42, and OH 3 all signed in the same direction.  OH 37 is a pretty good NNW-SSE route from Findlay to just west of Dublin, but from there it can't seem to decide if it wants to go due south or due east.  I can't blame ODOT or its various districts if direction signing isn't consistent on that one.  Really, the various segments of OH 37 have no business pretending to be a single highway.  And then there's OH 104, a pretty solid N-S route along the west bank of the Scioto, until it hooks due east on the Frank-Refugee Expressway; signage on the latter is mixed between N-S and E-W.

Years ago, when the N-East, N-West et al tabs were dropped from use, a chap from ODOT told me the method they used to mark the weird routes like US 33 and US 62.....they would lay out the route on a map of Ohio and determine if the path was more E-W or more N-S through the state, and use those tabs accordingly.  Hence, US 33 and 35 are more E-W...and US 42 was more N-S  I think 62 was a toss-up, which is why the confusion in how it is marked, even in the same town or city...

US 250 is another route that is diagonal.  In Ohio and Virginia it is signed East-West, but in West Virginia it is a North-South route I believe.  However, if you look at a map of Ohio, US 250 appears to be more of a north-south route.  The only true east-west portion IMO is from Ashland to Beach City.  It is more north-south in the Sandusky/Norwalk area as well as the New Philadelphia area, Bridgeport/Cadiz area.  Who knows!
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: myosh_tino on July 11, 2011, 01:05:39 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 07, 2011, 02:25:33 PM
CA-85 is signed as N-S, but it is pretty much exactly diagonal in retrospect.  It perpendicularly intersects CA-17 and CA-87, which are both N-S highways.
While that's true now that CA-85 is complete, the original section of CA-85 from Stevens Creek Blvd to US 101 in Mountain View is north-south.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: TheStranger on July 11, 2011, 12:24:33 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on July 11, 2011, 01:05:39 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on July 07, 2011, 02:25:33 PM
CA-85 is signed as N-S, but it is pretty much exactly diagonal in retrospect.  It perpendicularly intersects CA-17 and CA-87, which are both N-S highways.
While that's true now that CA-85 is complete, the original section of CA-85 from Stevens Creek Blvd to US 101 in Mountain View is north-south.

Not to mention the older surface street routing from Route 9 to I-280 (a segment of former Route 9 when that road ran up through Milpitas/Fremont to Hayward) was very definitively north-south.

For that matter, 85 as is has both ends on a north-south road (US 101), serving as a north-south bypass for through traffic - thus the directional choice works pretty well.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Chicagosuburban on July 15, 2011, 01:46:02 PM
The only ones in the Chicago area that I can really think of are IL-7 (signed north-south), IL-62 (signed east-west), and IL-71 (signed east-west)...the majority of Chicagoland's diagonal roads are U.S. highways (US-12, US-14, US-20, US-52, etc.)
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: WolfGuy100 on July 15, 2011, 05:05:55 PM
What about I-26 that runs through TN, NC and SC? Even the tab over I-26 shield said EAST or WEST, it seem to be more like north and south because the way it set up.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: vtk on July 15, 2011, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: WolfGuy100 on July 15, 2011, 05:05:55 PM
What about I-26 that runs through TN, NC and SC? Even the tab over I-26 shield said EAST or WEST, it seem to be more like north and south because the way it set up.

I thought the TN portion should have been designated as N-S.  That way they could have re-used I-181's mileage and exit numbers.  And before the Interstate Grid Patrol objects, I'll point out that mainline Interstates changing signed directions isn't without precedent - look at I-69 in Michigan.  Sometimes it makes more sense to break a rule than to follow it.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: Brandon on July 16, 2011, 08:29:18 AM
Quote from: Chicagosuburban on July 15, 2011, 01:46:02 PM
The only ones in the Chicago area that I can really think of are IL-7 (signed north-south), IL-62 (signed east-west), and IL-71 (signed east-west)...the majority of Chicagoland's diagonal roads are U.S. highways (US-12, US-14, US-20, US-52, etc.)

I-55 and I-90 come to mind.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: iowahighways on July 16, 2011, 02:38:16 PM
Quote from: pianocello on May 16, 2011, 10:16:28 PM
In Iowa, diagonal state highways are signed in its general direction. For example, hwy 130 is e-w and (as far as I know) hwy 60 is n-s. I'm pretty sure hwy 163 is e-w, but I'm not sure about hwy 330.

IA 330 is signed north-south, as is US 151. IA 163 is indeed east-west.

Then there's IA 16, which is usually signed east-west, but the first reassurance marker south of US 34 reads "SOUTH" IA 16. That was placed there after a new four-lane segment of US 34 opened east of Ottumwa in 2006. Once you cross the old US 34, an "EAST" IA 16 marker is present.
Title: Re: Diagonal Routes...North-South or East-West?
Post by: ftballfan on July 17, 2011, 10:54:14 PM
In Michigan:
M-1: N-S
M-26: E-W?
M-40 (north of Allegan): N-S
M-47: N-S
M-50: E-W
M-71: E-W
M-88: N-S
M-89 (east of Allegan): E-W
M-106: E-W?
M-115: E-W
M-120: N-S
US-223: E-W