Being from CT, I never get to see lighted BGS's unless I'm travelling far out of state. It seems that all over southern New England, there really aren't any lighted BGS's. I know there are a couple on the Mass Pike East of Sturbridge and scattered sparsely throughout the state and I'm sure a few in RI, but the last time I went by any in this general area the lights weren't lit at night.
Lighted BGS's were always a fascinating thing for me when I'd head south along the east coast, because as far as I can remember there were never any around here. I haven't travelled too far out of the area in a while except for plane travel, and the few lighted BGS's I've seen haven't had working lights.
I guess I'm wondering who here is in an area where lighted BGS's are still common and the lights are still lit every night?
I'm sure that with constant advances in retroreflective sheetings and the relative lower cost compared to maintaining lights, these types of signs are quickly becomming antiquated historical highway elements.
In CT you won't find a single BGS with lighting equipment installed NOT ONE! They are all gone and have been for a long time!...And in surrounding states there seem to be very few, at least where I travel, and haven't seen one lit.
IDOT (Illinois) uses lighted BGSs extensively on both button copy and retroreflective signage. The Illinois Tollway has lighted BGSs on their button copy and some retroreflective signage, but is currently replacing them with non-lighted BGSs with retroreflective signage and Clearview text.
InDOT (Indiana) uses lighted BGSs extensively.
MDOT (Michigan) and WisDOT (Wisconsin) do not use lighted BGSs. Even older button copy signage in Wisconsin does not have lights.
Are they lit from inside or from the outside (from below or above?)
Quote from: Chris on October 31, 2009, 09:53:47 AMAre they lit from inside or from the outside (from below or above?)
Generally outside and below, though Arizona DOT illuminates from above. Internally illuminated overhead guide signs are very rare, but do exist (e.g. I-10 Hance Deck Park tunnel in Phoenix, I-80 Bay Bridge). Strip fluorescent lighting from above is an old Caltrans heirloom, now very rare. Strip fluorescent lighting in general began to be phased out in the late 1960's/early 1970's in favor of squarish high-pressure-sodium or mercury-vapor luminaires. Mercury vapor is more common because color rendition is better, but some states (e.g. Arizona, Virginia) prefer high-pressure sodium, which accentuates contrast.
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 31, 2009, 10:19:01 AM
Internally illuminated overhead guide signs are very rare, but do exist (e.g. I-10 Hance Deck Park tunnel in Phoenix, I-80 Bay Bridge).
Those internal-illuminated signs are my favorite, due to it's rarity.
Some internal-lit signs I've seen over the years:
- The interchange of I-77 & I-64 East near Beckley on the WV Tpk.
- Near the interchange of I-75 and US-30 near Beavercreek (?) OH.
- Most airport signage (Big Blue Signs) at the Akron/Canton Airport -- Just off I-77 near North Canton, OH.
One of the oldest I've ever seen was in Cleveland, OH at the "Mixing Bowl" where SR-14/Broadway, SR-43/Miles Ave, E. 93rd St., Turney Ave & Warner Road all came together over a set of railroad tracks. The sign assemblies had to have dated back to the late 50's or early 60's, and the last of the signs were removed about 10 years ago.
Colorado still lights many overheads -- newer assemblies are lit from above, while older assemblies are lit from below the BGS.
Delaware is phasing out overhead sign lighting as signs are replaced. A few older assemblies are still around with functioning lights, but are on borrowed time.
Maryland still lights most of their signs.
Virginia generally lights their signs, but are now phasing them out as Clearview is phased in.
South Carolina was including lights on all assemblies up until recently. Some of the newer installations I've seen in the last three years have no lighting.
Georgia removed all lighting fixtures when the exit renumbering of 1999 occurred. You will only ever find lighting fixtures on signs on non-Interstate highways, and those lights don't work anymore.
Florida lights all overheads and continues to use them in newer assemblies.
Alabama phased out overhead lighting years ago, but you can still find some assemblies hanging around but not working.
Only lit overheads I ever saw in Mississippi were along the Interstate 110 viaduct in Biloxi. Based upon flaroadgeek's recent pics, the lights are still there and perhaps replaced.
Louisiana does not light signs, though you can find a few strip fluorescent lighting assemblies hanging on for dear life (they don't work of course).
Texas phased out sign lighting when they phased out button copy.
Only place I have seen new sign lightning installed in Pennsylvania is by PHL International Airport on I-95.
Ohio has lit BGS signs primarily in the cities....mostly the older button copy, although the newer signs can have them as well...at one time, they were also on major Interstate interchanges but not so much anymore...
I had a feeling they're still common from the mid-atlantic on south in the I-95 corridor. A while ago I was doing the back and forth to Hallandale Beach, FL from Stafford Springs, CT semi regularly and all the lighted BGS's stood out to me. I assumed a lot of them have to still be in use because they were so extensive
Quote from: Brandon on October 31, 2009, 09:00:44 AM
MDOT (Michigan) and WisDOT (Wisconsin) do not use lighted BGSs. Even older button copy signage in Wisconsin does not have lights.
Apparently they used to. I-75 at BL I-75/Square Lake Road in the Mid 80's...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdlxs.lib.wayne.edu%2Fcgi%2Fi%2Fimage%2Fgetimage-idx%3Fviewid%3D28259_1%3Bcc%3Dvmc%3Bentryid%3Dx-28259-und-1%3Bquality%3D1%3Bview%3Dimage&hash=0d9ed9ed90d1fd2ea84a5e21a7ba4668beedba71)
West Virginia's overheads have lights, even the newer reflective signs that replace button copy.
Quote from: Brandon on October 31, 2009, 09:00:44 AM
MDOT (Michigan) and WisDOT (Wisconsin) do not use lighted BGSs. Even older button copy signage in Wisconsin does not have lights.
For Wisconsin - the prime and
only exception is Milwaukee.
PA doesn't install them anymore, but some can be found scattering around.
In NY, the only area I know that has them is the greater NYC area. Though, going on I-87 south in Albany, just where it turns onto the Thruway in Colonie, there is a huge backlit one:
http://picasaweb.google.com/Iansignal/NewYorkTrafficSignalsAndRoadSigns#5296426618212051234 (http://picasaweb.google.com/Iansignal/NewYorkTrafficSignalsAndRoadSigns#5296426618212051234)
Quote from: HighwayMaster on October 31, 2009, 05:08:59 PM
Quote from: wytout on October 31, 2009, 07:30:13 AM
Being from CT, I never get to see lighted BGS's unless I'm travelling far out of state. It seems that all over southern New England, there really aren't any lighted BGS's. I know there are a couple on the Mass Pike East of Sturbridge and scattered sparsely throughout the state and I'm sure a few in RI, but the last time I went by any in this general area the lights weren't lit at night.
Lighted BGS's were always a fascinating thing for me when I'd head south along the east coast, because as far as I can remember there were never any around here. I haven't travelled too far out of the area in a while except for plane travel, and the few lighted BGS's I've seen haven't had working lights.
I guess I'm wondering who here is in an area where lighted BGS's are still common and the lights are still lit every night?
I'm sure that with constant advances in retroreflective sheetings and the relative lower cost compared to maintaining lights, these types of signs are quickly becomming antiquated historical highway elements.
In CT you won't find a single BGS with lighting equipment installed NOT ONE! They are all gone and have been for a long time!...And in surrounding states there seem to be very few, at least where I travel, and haven't seen one lit.
Did you forget about this one, wytout?
(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/connecticut050/i-084_eb_exit_010_01.jpg)
Holy CARP! THANK YOU! for spotting it... and I NEVER travel I84 in that part of the state, it's always the Merritt or what-have-you.
WOW! I need to go see that for myself (at night, though I doubt it will be lit). Quick little road trip. I didn't think such a beast still existed ANYWHERE in this state! It's still there?
Probably a little sickening to some that I'm that excited that an assembly like this still exists here!
Most of California's overhead signs have lights below the sign including the newer retroreflective signs that are replacing older button copy signs. Only problem is, there are a number near where I live where the lights are not turned on at night. I've heard excuses ranging from saving electricity (and money) to copper thieves that are stealing the wiring connecting the sign's lights to the control boxes.
Also, regarding backlit signs, besides I-80 near the Bay Bridge, there also this sign on I-80 near Vallejo...
(https://www.aaroads.com/california/images080/i-080_eb_exit_030a_02.jpg)
Quote from: wytout on October 31, 2009, 07:59:47 PM
WOW! I need to go see that for myself (at night, though I doubt it will be lit). Quick little road trip. I didn't think such a beast still existed ANYWHERE in this state! It's still there?
Y'know, I was through there just a week ago, and I seem to recall noticing those lights and finding it rather odd...
New Jersey includes them for the most part on our BGSs. I think on the new assemblies too.
Quote from: HighwayMaster on October 31, 2009, 05:08:59 PM
Quote from: wytout on October 31, 2009, 07:30:13 AM
Being from CT, I never get to see lighted BGS's unless I'm travelling far out of state. It seems that all over southern New England, there really aren't any lighted BGS's. I know there are a couple on the Mass Pike East of Sturbridge and scattered sparsely throughout the state and I'm sure a few in RI, but the last time I went by any in this general area the lights weren't lit at night.
Lighted BGS's were always a fascinating thing for me when I'd head south along the east coast, because as far as I can remember there were never any around here. I haven't travelled too far out of the area in a while except for plane travel, and the few lighted BGS's I've seen haven't had working lights.
I guess I'm wondering who here is in an area where lighted BGS's are still common and the lights are still lit every night?
I'm sure that with constant advances in retroreflective sheetings and the relative lower cost compared to maintaining lights, these types of signs are quickly becomming antiquated historical highway elements.
In CT you won't find a single BGS with lighting equipment installed NOT ONE! They are all gone and have been for a long time!...And in surrounding states there seem to be very few, at least where I travel, and haven't seen one lit.
Did you forget about this one, wytout?
(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/connecticut050/i-084_eb_exit_010_01.jpg)
Good catch! Actually on I-84 in Waterbury, there are some sticks below the BGS, which used to have lights on them...all that remain are the "sticks" that used to hold the lights....I-84 WB under the elevated mixmaster. By the way...the shields on this BGS gantry are recent! As when CT did button copy, the shields were also transparent....ie: The background of the shiled was green.
Nevada DOT installs lights for almost every overhead BGS, and continues to light them. (Links in parentheses are examples. Pictures hosted on AARoads.)
Originally, the signs were lit with fluorescent lights mounted level with the bottom of the sign. Gradually, fluorescent fixtures became less effective and the state began changing to the blockier fixtures used currently, although some still remain (US 395 NB north of Reno (https://www.aaroads.com/west/nevada395/us-395_nb_exit_073_02.jpg)). At first, lights were simply placed on the same mounts as the old fixtures (I-80 WB in Sparks (https://www.aaroads.com/west/nevada080/i-080_wb_exit_018_02.jpg)). This interfered with visibility from below, so NDOT started raising the signs wherever the lights were retrofitted (I-15 NB in Las Vegas (https://www.aaroads.com/west/nevada015/i-015_nb_exit_041a_04.jpg)). Current practice for newer installations is generally to lower the lights below the bottom chord of the truss (US 95 SB in Las Vegas (https://www.aaroads.com/west/nevada095/us-095_sb_exit_077_02a.jpg)).
There are some variations on sign lighting. There is at least one installation where internally-lit signs are used (I-15 SB in Las Vegas (https://www.aaroads.com/west/nevada015/i-015_sb_exit_038b_02.jpg)). Also, Clark County used overhead lights for some early overhead sign installations on the Las Vegas Beltway (I-215 EB in Las Vegas (https://www.aaroads.com/west/nevada215/i-215_il_exit_010_01.jpg)).
Recently, NDOT has changed out a few signs in the downtown Reno area on I-80, replacing several older signs that had lost their reflectivitiy (or were the older dark green signs that never had reflective elements) with newer highly reflective sheeting. As they did this, they removed the lighting fixtures so that these signs are unlit. Another sign on US 395 received similar treatment. I'm not sure whether or not NDOT is looking at this as a case study for removing sign lighting on a larger scale.
EDIT: Updated example links to reflect domain change from RockyMountainRoads to AARoads.
Most of the lighted BGSs in Pennsylvania are in cities and lit from the bottom up. The only exception to that rule are the guides on PA 60 (Airport Parkway and Southern Expressway) which are lit from the top probably due to the area being the in the approach for Pittsburgh International.
Liberty Bridge outbound has a variable guide sign (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Pittsburgh,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.671324,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Pittsburgh,+Allegheny,+Pennsylvania&ll=40.432384,-79.997141&spn=0.002033,0.004823&z=18&layer=c&cbll=40.431859,-79.997502&panoid=VWOYiMOETafLXelwGuSrgg&cbp=12,214.32,,0,-19.53) due to the afternoon rush using three lanes of the four lanes.
North Carolina has traditionally included lights on all overheads, but here on I-540 in Raleigh only about 3/4 have lights. I wonder if these solar panels are lighting this one overhead...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2F540solar.jpg&hash=3230a5b2e77d490efcfa7c094cae7eba612630d2)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2F540six.jpg&hash=53745329de32b2d63afdb6401c9a7f56709362bf)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2F540.jpg&hash=d9af7c95354c8655519ae5fd6b7ed356c7a65130)
Quote from: PAHighways on November 01, 2009, 09:14:23 PM
Most of the lighted BGSs in Pennsylvania are in cities and lit from the bottom up.
I'd also agree with that.
Roads built by the PA Turnpike seem to almost never have any BGS lighting. (I think the very end of 576 has a couple where it meets the airport & parkway (also overhead, like the PennDOT hwys around there)
I remember when a lot of the overhead signs in CT had lights... many along the Connecticut Turnpike where the all-text blue signs were still in use had full length lights, while the BGSs on the other interstates had (usually) two lights on each sign, as evident by the sign on I-84 EB shown above. I remember seeing a lot of those on Hartford on I-91 in the days before the new Charter Oak Bridge. When the switch to "Phase III" (all button copy) came about, the lights were abandoned and construction led to replacement of gantries.
There is still a light for a sign on the Conn Turnpike NB after Exit 16 in East Norwalk, but no sign. It may have been a 2-mile advance for the Westport exit.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on November 02, 2009, 10:25:41 AMRoads built by the PA Turnpike seem to almost never have any BGS lighting. (I think the very end of 576 has a couple where it meets the airport & parkway (also overhead, like the PennDOT hwys around there)
Aside from I-276, the only place they seem to install lighting is at major junctions like the Turnpike 43/Interstate 70 cloverleaf.
Quote from: PAHighways on November 03, 2009, 08:11:18 PM
Aside from I-276, the only place they seem to install lighting is at major junctions like the Turnpike 43/Interstate 70 cloverleaf.
Alas, I can't personally vouch for the I-276 portion.
I've assumed that the 43/I-70 junction BGS-lighting was installed by PennDOT. (All the newer overhead signs installed on 43 @ the interchange when the road was completed north of I-70 don't have any lighting.)
Update, most overheads I've seen so far in southern Indiana still utilize lighting.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on November 04, 2009, 10:19:06 AMI've assumed that the 43/I-70 junction BGS-lighting was installed by PennDOT.
That cloverleaf was built by the PTC.
We found one fully lit sign bridge along Interstate 459 south at Interstate 20 that is still functioning. That may be the only left in Alabama for all I know...
One on I-10 going to San Antonio.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FSvOGaaPleMI%2FAAAAAAAADA4%2FFx7ubpbb9tA%2Fs800%2FDSCF1377.JPG&hash=16b8bbce25e6114bc15c2c8ee542ebc4264a1ace)
Another one on I-10
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_WYYeXvkUoUE%2FSvOGcEar6_I%2FAAAAAAAADBA%2FBLuVuPM7ljc%2Fs800%2FDSCF1379.JPG&hash=2ca5d9b27dd45780fc3d9b94a2e0a393ae7395dd)
Thats all I have.
BigMatt
Ontario used to light their overhead BGSs with strip fluorescent lighting and later with square mercury vapour lights before switching to using sodium lights in similar fixtures as the mercury ones. Some of the gantries still have lights attached to the catwalk but have long been disconnected. Others have their electrical boxes still attached on the gantry, the newer BGS gantries don't have a catwalk for lights.
Here's an example of a gantry with the square mercury or sodium lights still attached but disconnected.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg695.imageshack.us%2Fimg695%2F7209%2Fdscn3985.jpg&hash=19450209a6c8d3fcadc24c4439bdea65d8bffe3f)
Nowadays they just use reflective sheeting on the signs. (Can't remember which kind but the letters are more reflective than the background)
Here's a completely strange assembly on O'ahu...not sure if the overhang contains a lighting element, but I would guess that's the point of these things?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_vV2-Fg-7T40%2FSzFu9SMtbVI%2FAAAAAAAAATA%2FT9MKCn6CGuc%2Fs512%2FIMG_6795.JPG&hash=77236ef65848d8fe02d0df99ee75cebba6373713)
Odd to see ground mounted signs with any type of lighting structure.
^^^I've seen ground mounted signs in Hong Kong with lighting fixtures attached on the top edge of the sign.
Here's picture of a ground mounted BBS I found on Wikipedia with lights attached:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F3%2F34%2FHK_Ngau_Tau_Kok_Road_1.jpg%2F800px-HK_Ngau_Tau_Kok_Road_1.jpg&hash=800035dbdfc8cf94d4040ff4597497b049902d1b)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wytout.com%2Fpersonal%2Fbradley9120.JPG&hash=004bb5c0186c6f01aeee6097085e40ece2955e12)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wytout.com%2Fpersonal%2Fbradley917520.JPG&hash=8974f71424f6fcf072d8afb75d3a212180a18198)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wytout.com%2Fpersonal%2Fbradley1.JPG&hash=4442ca81e95fd538f082c94f40a976fae13e832f)
In my quest for ConnDOT working lighted overhead signs, THIS is the best I could come up with. The terminal roads at Bradley International Airport. Ironically it's 4 minutes from my house. It's strange that the overheads have UP-lighting at the airport, where DOWN-lighting is usually standard in such a vicinity. I didn't get shots but there are also a couple more Big Blue Signs that are Ground-mounted with standard highway-sign-type DOWN-lighting (as I commented seemed so strange to see at all in my above post). I went this morning at 6am and checked, they all worked too. Some are white mercury type light, a couple seem to have newer sodium "yellowy" light. It's not a highway, but its a ConnDOT transportation facility roadway, so I'm happy to see some working lighted signs in CT. :spin:
Apologies for crappy pictures. I wasn't going to take pictures, just going to see if they still had lighting, but decided to whip out the blackberry as I was driving through!
I've always been annoyed at the lack of lighting on the BGS here in Georgia, particularly in the Atlanta area. The lack of lighting on many of the freeways here too.
When I lived in Arkansas, I was told by the engineer in my region that the AHTD had "determined" that lighting on intersections and BGSs wasn't proven to improve driver sight at all, and that they believed that it might actually be detrimental. I was laughing to myself during this conversation, but apparently that was their mantra for avoiding any type of lighting expenditures for a long time. I wonder if that same vein flows through several DOTs.
It seems like in SF, several of the South of Market district internally lit BGSes (from the 1960s) are no longer being actively lighted...the ramp at 1st Street has been dark for months now, I haven't seen it on in my semi-regular drives through that area.
Quote from: leonontheroad on December 27, 2009, 12:38:18 PM
I've always been annoyed at the lack of lighting on the BGS here in Georgia, particularly in the Atlanta area. The lack of lighting on many of the freeways here too.
Almost all Georgia overheads were lit until the 1999-exit numbering conversion.
For you CT peeps, another BGS light on a gantry has been found. This time on I-95 NB just past Exit 16, but the sign is long gone.
http://www.google.com/maps?q=east+main+st+norwalk,+ct&hl=en&ll=41.109931,-73.402437&spn=0,0.013915&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=52.68309,113.994141&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.109981,-73.402315&panoid=8grhFwPPPqlUAPqx1kqdZQ&cbp=12,74.87,,0,1.94
I'm guessing that may have been for a 2-mile advance BGS for Exit 17 (Westport/Saugatuck). Back when the signs were Phase III (button copy), there was no sign posted there, so it may date back to the 1980s if "Phase II" signage was ever installed in this area (non reflective button copy, with traditional state route markers (non-outline)). Some sections of the turnpike lost their original all blue all text signage as new interchanges/expressways sprung up (US 7, CT 8/25, I-91, etc).
That's kind of a "retro" section of the turnpike... one of the few on the west end with an original grass median, and a nice old school truss gantry (one gantry just west of this location was replaced with a truss gantry about 6 or 7 years ago).
I detailed Nevada practices in an earlier post in the thread. One part to update, though...
Quote from: roadfro on November 01, 2009, 08:02:23 PM
Recently, NDOT has changed out a few signs in the downtown Reno area on I-80, replacing several older signs that had lost their reflectivitiy (or were the older dark green signs that never had reflective elements) with newer highly reflective sheeting. As they did this, they removed the lighting fixtures so that these signs are unlit. Another sign on US 395 received similar treatment. I'm not sure whether or not NDOT is looking at this as a case study for removing sign lighting on a larger scale.
There has been more activity on this trend of removing lights since my original post. At least three other signs on US 395 in Reno were replaced with highly reflective signs and had the associated light fixtures removed.
Additionally, all new sign structures that have been put in as part of the US 395 NB widening project in Reno have been installed with no lighting fixtures whatsoever. These are the same set of signs that, to my knowledge, feature the first use of Clearview on freeway signs in Nevada. Example from forum member kniwt:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fzoza.com%2F%7Ekniwt%2FIMGP3190.JPG&hash=4a0786a81091370fe07ff5b72ec15325e6c65d20)