No, this isn't another thread about the economic decline of urban areas. ;-)
From NY 45, the motorist bound for the village of New Square is directed to turn onto Washington Ave. But immediately upon turning, one finds this No Outlet sign (https://goo.gl/maps/ACTt2RtyKmP2). Indeed, Washington Ave. is the only road leading in and out of the village (Google shows two more side streets intersecting NY 45 just to the north, but these are only partially or unofficially opened, providing informal access at best). Like any village in NYS, New Square is a fully incorporated municipality–it happens also to be a Hasidic community, with the interesting result that at least a couple of street signs can be found in Yiddish (https://goo.gl/maps/3fimNV4EMCT2).
So I'm curious, where else is there a full-fledged municipality that has only one route in or out, such that somebody following signs to it would encounter either No Outlet or Dead End signage? For brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island, unless there's something particularly notable about the signage at its entrance (for example: "Welcome to Anytown" and "Dead End" mounted on the same sign or assembly).
And again, actual municipalities only–no unincorporated residential areas, gated communities, HOAs, that kind of thing, unless they're legitimately incorporated governmental entities. Even with the geographic exclusion, I'm guessing there are more of these than I think there are, especially since some states do incorporate practically every little isolated subdivision that asks to. :D
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
So I'm curious, where else is there a full-fledged municipality that has only one route in or out, such that somebody following signs to it would encounter either No Outlet or Dead End signage? For brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island, unless there's something particularly notable about the signage at its entrance (for example: "Welcome to Anytown" and "Dead End" mounted on the same sign or assembly).
And again, actual municipalities only–no unincorporated residential areas, gated communities, HOAs, that kind of thing, unless they're legitimately incorporated governmental entities. Even with the geographic exclusion, I'm guessing there are more of these than I think there are, especially since some states do incorporate practically every little isolated subdivision that asks to. :D
Kentucky is one of those states that incorporates practically every little isolated subdivision that asks to. I think the best example of what you're asking for is the 6th class City of Sycamore, Kentucky. If you look at this view:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2454865,-85.561837,3a,75y,287.89h,81.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_P5slRd06NqsOBE6H73bVw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
to your right you'll see the No Outlet sign, and if you look to the left you'll see the City of Sycamore sign. The "city" is pretty much just an apartment complex, and a few other multi-family dwellings.
Sycamore, KY has one entry/exit: Sycamore Drive.
Key West, Florida.
Port Mansfield, TX has just 1 highway in/out, TX 186. For now (until a second bridge ever gets built?), the area of South Padre Island has just one way in/out, TX 100 to Port Isabel, followed by PR 100 across the Queen Isabella Causeway.
QuoteFor brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island
Quote from: formulanone on December 19, 2016, 04:11:10 AM
Key West, Florida.
Montague, California with CA 3 as it ends at the eastern city limit. Granted the road continues past where Caltrans maintenance stops:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7248667,-122.51572,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_KdWrwvNhhiSpB3GkALJuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en
Makes me wonder about KY 306 as the only road into Wheelwright, KY or if KY 466 into Weeksbury, KY would count.
Quote from: formulanone on December 19, 2016, 04:11:10 AM
Key West, Florida.
Quote from: txstateends on December 19, 2016, 07:18:40 AM
Port Mansfield, TX has just 1 highway in/out, TX 186. For now (until a second bridge ever gets built?), the area of South Padre Island has just one way in/out, TX 100 to Port Isabel, followed by PR 100 across the Queen Isabella Causeway.
Key West and SPI are definitely geographic exclusions; Port Mansfield is interesting since it's on the mainland but appears pretty well hemmed in by the lagoon. Is there a final turn-off from TC 186 after which there's a No Outlet sign posted?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 19, 2016, 07:45:15 AM
Montague, California with CA 3 as it ends at the eastern city limit. Granted the road continues past where Caltrans maintenance stops:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7248667,-122.51572,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_KdWrwvNhhiSpB3GkALJuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en
And there are three other main roads out of the the city; I'm not seeing how this is a dead end at all.
Quote from: Rothman on December 19, 2016, 09:11:31 AM
Makes me wonder about KY 306 as the only road into Wheelwright, KY or if KY 466 into Weeksbury, KY would count.
I think so; they both continue past the municipality, but into a closed system with no further outlet. It would be better if those highways were marked at the turn-off with No Outlet signs.
On the other hand, I'm imagining a case where the highway continues for an extended distance before ending, perhaps even with more cities strung along its route, and I'm not sure if that's in the spirit of what I'm looking for. But let's see what arises.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 19, 2016, 07:45:15 AM
Montague, California with CA 3 as it ends at the eastern city limit. Granted the road continues past where Caltrans maintenance stops:
Montague isn't Incorporated. California is somewhat stingy with incorporations, particularly up north.
There are a lot of instances in Colorado where you a road into a town and the road continues as a jeep trail into the mountains. Telluride and Marble are two. It seems like it's rare to not have either a river or bay or other major geographic obstacle.
There are some towns on the border in Texas that come very close. In spite of lacking incorporation, Candelaria at least should be noted for its sheer isolation. The road technically continues past the town down the river, but there's nothing there. Dell City (Incorporated) is the same way.
There's also Woodloch, Texas. Incorporated and the roads go no where, but there are two roads and they loop together.
Quote from: coatimundi on December 19, 2016, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 19, 2016, 07:45:15 AM
Montague, California with CA 3 as it ends at the eastern city limit. Granted the road continues past where Caltrans maintenance stops:
Montague isn't Incorporated. California is somewhat stingy with incorporations, particularly up north.
Actually it is, 1909 I believe:
http://www.ci.montague.ca.us/
Isn't Ferndale up in Humboldt also a city? If remember right 211 ended at Ocean Avenue in downtown.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 19, 2016, 07:45:15 AM
Montague, California with CA 3 as it ends at the eastern city limit. Granted the road continues past where Caltrans maintenance stops:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7248667,-122.51572,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_KdWrwvNhhiSpB3GkALJuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en
[/quote]
The OP was vague about what his definition of a "route" is, wasn't like he said "road." Basically I see route as a posted and numbered highway, so anything like a County , Farm-to-Market, State, or US routes would count.
Montreat NC, at the north end of NC 9 should qualify with the OP criteria. Couldn't find any 'No Outlet' or "Dead End" signs though...
Quote from: coatimundi on December 19, 2016, 10:01:45 AM
There are a lot of instances in Colorado where you a road into a town and the road continues as a jeep trail into the mountains. Telluride and Marble are two. It seems like it's rare to not have either a river or bay or other major geographic obstacle.
Yeah, I'm re-thinking whether cases like these (as well as the two Kentucky ones) count as geographic constraints. Telluride was the first place I thought of when posting this, but I kind of purposely left it undecided.
QuoteThere are some towns on the border in Texas that come very close. In spite of lacking incorporation, Candelaria at least should be noted for its sheer isolation. The road technically continues past the town down the river, but there's nothing there. Dell City (Incorporated) is the same way.
I'm not seeing it with Dell City; there are roads on all four points of the compass. Am I looking at the right city (https://goo.gl/maps/UQeN7VCQw992)?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 19, 2016, 10:23:13 AM
The OP was vague about what his definition of a "route" is, wasn't like he said "road." Basically I see route as a posted and numbered highway, so anything like a County , Farm-to-Market, State, or US routes would count.
Ohhh, I see the confusion. No, I just meant "route" in the simplest, generic sense, as in "the way to get to a place". So, for our purposes (a roads forum), that means just a road, open and accessible for motor travel, being the only possible way you could be directed to get to a place by driving. As such, official wayfinding signs would presumably be posted showing you this route, and this route only, to get to the place (although the actual presence of such signs isn't an absolute requirement to qualify).
Quote from: Mapmikey on December 19, 2016, 10:33:35 AM
Montreat NC, at the north end of NC 9 should qualify with the OP criteria. Couldn't find any 'No Outlet' or "Dead End" signs though...
Yes, again depending on where we land on the question of whether mountainous terrain constitutes an obvious geographic constraint. And again, the actual presence of No Outlet or Dead End signs isn't an absolute requirement (unless it is a case of such geographic constraint). But I would give extra credit to an example showing a true Dead End–i.e., a single road with nothing branching from it and no way out on the other side–actually posted on the approach to a municipality!
Shrewsbury Township, NJ fits this bill (there's also Shrewsbury, NJ, literally across the street, which is not the same town). The only entrance is off of County Route 13. https://goo.gl/maps/uJiFUa8BVJP2
Tavistock, NJ, population 5, total size 1/4 of a square mile, doesn't even have a road leading into its town. It appears the only accessed portion of the town (which is mostly a golf course) is via parking lots. The NJ Turnpike and 295 actually go thru a very small portion of the town, but have no exits. Google Maps shows a piece of a local road cutting thru the town; Wikipedia says the only road is the NJ Turnpike (295 would cut thru it too though).
Dune Acres, Indiana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_Acres,_Indiana). There's one way in, and it is controlled by a guard shack. http://www.duneacres.org/
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
So I'm curious, where else is there a full-fledged municipality that has only one route in or out, such that somebody following signs to it would encounter either No Outlet or Dead End signage? For brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island, unless there's something particularly notable about the signage at its entrance (for example: "Welcome to Anytown" and "Dead End" mounted on the same sign or assembly).
Geographic constraints are pretty much the only thing preventing multiple roads from reaching a town. And your own example you provide has two points of ingress.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 19, 2016, 11:38:35 AM
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
So I'm curious, where else is there a full-fledged municipality that has only one route in or out, such that somebody following signs to it would encounter either No Outlet or Dead End signage? For brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island, unless there's something particularly notable about the signage at its entrance (for example: "Welcome to Anytown" and "Dead End" mounted on the same sign or assembly).
Geographic constraints are pretty much the only thing preventing multiple roads from reaching a town. And your own example you provide has two points of ingress.
What's the second one? The only other points I see are the unopened ones.
You're right about the "pretty much", which is of course why I was interested in this. I'm curious about those few examples that are the exception to the "pretty much". I don't usually post queries on things that have an extensive list of potential examples (although sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised).
But my example is one where geography isn't a deterrent for connecting the village in multiple places; they could easily open more points of access. And of course, as I mentioned, they're just a bit of pavement and the removal of some barriers away from doing just that.
iPhone
Quote from: empirestate on December 19, 2016, 12:53:01 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 19, 2016, 11:38:35 AM
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
So I'm curious, where else is there a full-fledged municipality that has only one route in or out, such that somebody following signs to it would encounter either No Outlet or Dead End signage? For brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island, unless there's something particularly notable about the signage at its entrance (for example: "Welcome to Anytown" and "Dead End" mounted on the same sign or assembly).
Geographic constraints are pretty much the only thing preventing multiple roads from reaching a town. And your own example you provide has two points of ingress.
What's the second one? The only other points I see are the unopened ones.
You're right about the "pretty much", which is of course why I was interested in this. I'm curious about those few examples that are the exception to the "pretty much". I don't usually post queries on things that have an extensive list of potential examples (although sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised).
iPhone
In my example, it appears that a painted wooden fence and curbing is the only thing separating it from another access point. Or someone's yard. It looks like people can easily walk from their house the to the house behind them. But to drive to their neighbors house would be a 2+ mile journey! https://goo.gl/maps/sis6pNt8FHP2
There were a few other examples I found in NJ that were limited to just 2 entry/exit points, often not the same road, and not limited due to terrain (which, with the oceans and bays, would add upteen numerous examples to this thread).
Quote from: empirestate on December 19, 2016, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: coatimundi on December 19, 2016, 10:01:45 AM
There are a lot of instances in Colorado where you a road into a town and the road continues as a jeep trail into the mountains. Telluride and Marble are two. It seems like it's rare to not have either a river or bay or other major geographic obstacle.
Yeah, I'm re-thinking whether cases like these (as well as the two Kentucky ones) count as geographic constraints. Telluride was the first place I thought of when posting this, but I kind of purposely left it undecided.
[/quote]
Keep in mind Google Maps is totally wrong about KY 466 somehow being connected to a mountain trail/two-track loop (through Able Fork). The whole switchback line on here doesn't really exist:
https://goo.gl/maps/CN8GSbmVNcN2
Quote from: TR69 on December 18, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Kentucky is one of those states that incorporates practically every little isolated subdivision that asks to. I think the best example of what you're asking for is the 6th class City of Sycamore, Kentucky. If you look at this view:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2454865,-85.561837,3a,75y,287.89h,81.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_P5slRd06NqsOBE6H73bVw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
to your right you'll see the No Outlet sign, and if you look to the left you'll see the City of Sycamore sign. The "city" is pretty much just an apartment complex, and a few other multi-family dwellings.
Sycamore, KY has one entry/exit: Sycamore Drive.
In Jefferson County. I wonder if Sycamore got eaten by the Louisville-Jefferson County merger? I think some of the small subdivision/cities (basically glorified homeonwers' associations) did cease to exist administratively
Quote from: Rothman on December 19, 2016, 09:11:31 AM
Makes me wonder about KY 306 as the only road into Wheelwright, KY or if KY 466 into Weeksbury, KY would count.
I didn't realize that Weeksbury was incorporated, but Wheelwright would qualify. The state maintenance runs right up to the end of the road. There's a short county road that turns off where the state road ends, but it doesn't go very far.
Quote from: TR69 on December 18, 2016, 10:27:23 PM
Kentucky is one of those states that incorporates practically every little isolated subdivision that asks to. I think the best example of what you're asking for is the 6th class City of Sycamore, Kentucky. If you look at this view:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2454865,-85.561837,3a,75y,287.89h,81.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_P5slRd06NqsOBE6H73bVw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
to your right you'll see the No Outlet sign, and if you look to the left you'll see the City of Sycamore sign. The "city" is pretty much just an apartment complex, and a few other multi-family dwellings.
Sycamore, KY has one entry/exit: Sycamore Drive.
In Jefferson County. I wonder if Sycamore got eaten by the Louisville-Jefferson County merger? I think some of the small subdivision/cities (basically glorified homeonwers' associations) did cease to exist administratively
Quote from: Rothman on December 19, 2016, 09:11:31 AM
Makes me wonder about KY 306 as the only road into Wheelwright, KY or if KY 466 into Weeksbury, KY would count.
I didn't realize that Weeksbury was incorporated, but Wheelwright would qualify. The state maintenance runs right up to the end of the road. There's a short county road that turns off where the state road ends, but it doesn't go very far.
Quote from: empirestate on December 19, 2016, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: coatimundi on December 19, 2016, 10:01:45 AM
There are a lot of instances in Colorado where you a road into a town and the road continues as a jeep trail into the mountains. Telluride and Marble are two. It seems like it's rare to not have either a river or bay or other major geographic obstacle.
Yeah, I'm re-thinking whether cases like these (as well as the two Kentucky ones) count as geographic constraints. Telluride was the first place I thought of when posting this, but I kind of purposely left it undecided.
I've only been to Telluride one time, but I drove in from CO-145 on the west, stopped for lunch, and then drove out to the east on Tomboy Road over Imogene Pass. So, what I mean is, the only time I've been there, I transited directly through town.
Does Kaskaskia (IL) count as a geographical exception? It's only accessible via U Highway from Saint Mary, yet its western water boundaries are negligible.
Quote from: kphoger on December 19, 2016, 04:11:20 PM
Does Kaskaskia (IL) count as a geographical exception? It's only accessible via U Highway from Saint Mary, yet its western water boundaries are negligible.
Yes, it does indeed. Kaskaskia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaskaskia,_Illinois) is still incorporated as a village. Granted that only 13 people live there, but it is a village and incorporated, nonetheless.
Quote from: Brandon on December 19, 2016, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 19, 2016, 04:11:20 PM
Does Kaskaskia (IL) count as a geographical exception? It's only accessible via U Highway from Saint Mary, yet its western water boundaries are negligible.
Yes, it does indeed. Kaskaskia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaskaskia,_Illinois) is still incorporated as a village. Granted that only 13 people live there, but it is a village and incorporated, nonetheless.
Actually, I would say not. To count as a geographical exception, there'd need to be an obvious physical constraint from building more than one road in, and it looks like Kaskaskia could easily get a second if it needed one. Probably the low population and the presence of a state boundary are the constraints in its case.
iPhone
Quote from: empirestate on December 19, 2016, 05:17:04 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 19, 2016, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 19, 2016, 04:11:20 PM
Does Kaskaskia (IL) count as a geographical exception? It's only accessible via U Highway from Saint Mary, yet its western water boundaries are negligible.
Yes, it does indeed. Kaskaskia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaskaskia,_Illinois) is still incorporated as a village. Granted that only 13 people live there, but it is a village and incorporated, nonetheless.
Actually, I would say not. To count as a geographical exception, there'd need to be an obvious physical constraint from building more than one road in, and it looks like Kaskaskia could easily get a second if it needed one. Probably the low population and the presence of a state boundary are the constraints in its case.
You contradict your own criteria.
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
For brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island, unless there's something particularly notable about the signage at its entrance (for example: "Welcome to Anytown" and "Dead End" mounted on the same sign or assembly).
Kaskaskia does indeed count as another bridge could be built easily, and there is a land connection on the southeastern end where a road could be placed.
Brigantine, NJ. NJ 87-cum-CR 638 is the only way in.
Cape May Point, NJ is debatable since you have CR 606 being the only road cutting across the extreme south of Cape May, and the borough has two ways in from that road: CR 629 and CR 651. EDIT Seagrove Avenue connects to both CR 606 and CR 607 as well and ends at CR 629.
Money Island and Fortescue, both in Downe Township, both require CR 637 to get there.
Google map links would be more helpful than in addition to Wikipedia links. Just sayin'.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 19, 2016, 03:19:45 PM
I didn't realize that Weeksbury was incorporated, but Wheelwright would qualify. The state maintenance runs right up to the end of the road. There's a short county road that turns off where the state road ends, but it doesn't go very far.
As my mother says, every wide spot on KY 122 had a name at one point. Hard to keep track of what was incorporated and what wasn't. :D
Quote from: CrystalWalrein on December 19, 2016, 06:18:55 PM
Brigantine, NJ. NJ 87-cum-CR 638 is the only way in.
Cape May Point, NJ is debatable since you have CR 606 being the only road cutting across the extreme south of Cape May, and the borough has two ways in from that road: CR 629 and CR 651. EDIT Seagrove Avenue connects to both CR 606 and CR 607 as well and ends at CR 629.
Money Island and Fortescue, both in Downe Township, both require CR 637 to get there.
QuoteFor brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island...
Quote from: Brandon on December 19, 2016, 05:34:44 PM
Quote from: empirestate on December 19, 2016, 05:17:04 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 19, 2016, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 19, 2016, 04:11:20 PM
Does Kaskaskia (IL) count as a geographical exception? It's only accessible via U Highway from Saint Mary, yet its western water boundaries are negligible.
Yes, it does indeed. Kaskaskia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaskaskia,_Illinois) is still incorporated as a village. Granted that only 13 people live there, but it is a village and incorporated, nonetheless.
Actually, I would say not. To count as a geographical exception, there'd need to be an obvious physical constraint from building more than one road in, and it looks like Kaskaskia could easily get a second if it needed one. Probably the low population and the presence of a state boundary are the constraints in its case.
You contradict your own criteria.
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
For brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island, unless there's something particularly notable about the signage at its entrance (for example: "Welcome to Anytown" and "Dead End" mounted on the same sign or assembly).
Kaskaskia does indeed count as another bridge could be built easily, and there is a land connection on the southeastern end where a road could be placed.
Right, so it does not count as a geographical exception. I don't see the contradiction. What am I missing?
iPhone
Quote from: empirestate on December 19, 2016, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: coatimundi on December 19, 2016, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 19, 2016, 10:23:13 AM
The OP was vague about what his definition of a "route" is, wasn't like he said "road." Basically I see route as a posted and numbered highway, so anything like a County , Farm-to-Market, State, or US routes would count.
Ohhh, I see the confusion. No, I just meant "route" in the simplest, generic sense, as in "the way to get to a place". So, for our purposes (a roads forum), that means just a road, open and accessible for motor travel, being the only possible way you could be directed to get to a place by driving. As such, official wayfinding signs would presumably be posted showing you this route, and this route only, to get to the place (although the actual presence of such signs isn't an absolute requirement to qualify).
Gotcha now, I think that I have one in Florida that would qualify based off that criteria:
Cedar Key in Florida has only FL 24 entering and exiting town:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cedar+Key,+FL+32625/@29.1445608,-83.037182,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x88e9a8d4e8c46a71:0x143f3e3d77052cff!8m2!3d29.1385785!4d-83.0351212!6m1!1e1?hl=en
The terrain around Cedar Key is workable in regards to possibly building a secondary road which obviously isn't necessary since the city is well past it's heyday as a logging center.
If you require that regular cars and commercial trucks must be able to have access in and out of the town on more than one road, then Telluride, CO would fit the bill.
And for the majority of the year, Aspen, CO is only accessible via CO-82 from the north and west as Independence Pass is generally closed from Oct-May +/- a few weeks on either end.
Coming back from Denver last week on I-70 west, they had flip-down signs that guided Denver-to-Aspen-bound drivers to stay on I-70 all the way to Glenwood Springs, which is where CO-82's western terminus begins.
...And then there is Juneau, Alaska where you can't get in NOR out. :bigass:
I don't think anywhere in Minnesota fits all the criteria because the examples of Angle Inlet, Noyes, and Island View are all unincorporated.
Which in retrospect Angle Inlet and Island View would be disqualified under geographic concerns anyway...
Quote from: empirestate on December 19, 2016, 09:31:39 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 19, 2016, 05:34:44 PM
Quote from: empirestate on December 19, 2016, 05:17:04 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 19, 2016, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 19, 2016, 04:11:20 PM
Does Kaskaskia (IL) count as a geographical exception? It's only accessible via U Highway from Saint Mary, yet its western water boundaries are negligible.
Yes, it does indeed. Kaskaskia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaskaskia,_Illinois) is still incorporated as a village. Granted that only 13 people live there, but it is a village and incorporated, nonetheless.
Actually, I would say not. To count as a geographical exception, there'd need to be an obvious physical constraint from building more than one road in, and it looks like Kaskaskia could easily get a second if it needed one. Probably the low population and the presence of a state boundary are the constraints in its case.
You contradict your own criteria.
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
For brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island, unless there's something particularly notable about the signage at its entrance (for example: "Welcome to Anytown" and "Dead End" mounted on the same sign or assembly).
Kaskaskia does indeed count as another bridge could be built easily, and there is a land connection on the southeastern end where a road could be placed.
Right, so it does not count as a geographical exception. I don't see the contradiction. What am I missing?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denbolle.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2Ffacepalm-picard.jpg&hash=724ab20b622b2579a591cdd5412b2cc977a565cf)
Quote from: Brandon on December 20, 2016, 06:09:13 AM
Quote from: empirestate on December 19, 2016, 09:31:39 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 19, 2016, 05:34:44 PM
Quote from: empirestate on December 19, 2016, 05:17:04 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 19, 2016, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 19, 2016, 04:11:20 PM
Does Kaskaskia (IL) count as a geographical exception? It's only accessible via U Highway from Saint Mary, yet its western water boundaries are negligible.
Yes, it does indeed. Kaskaskia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaskaskia,_Illinois) is still incorporated as a village. Granted that only 13 people live there, but it is a village and incorporated, nonetheless.
Actually, I would say not. To count as a geographical exception, there'd need to be an obvious physical constraint from building more than one road in, and it looks like Kaskaskia could easily get a second if it needed one. Probably the low population and the presence of a state boundary are the constraints in its case.
You contradict your own criteria.
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
For brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island, unless there's something particularly notable about the signage at its entrance (for example: "Welcome to Anytown" and "Dead End" mounted on the same sign or assembly).
Kaskaskia does indeed count as another bridge could be built easily, and there is a land connection on the southeastern end where a road could be placed.
Right, so it does not count as a geographical exception. I don't see the contradiction. What am I missing?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denbolle.nl%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2Ffacepalm-picard.jpg&hash=724ab20b622b2579a591cdd5412b2cc977a565cf)
Hehe, looks like you figured out the error. :-) I think you were trying to say something in reverse, maybe...the question was, does Kaskaskia count as a geographic exception? I said no, and you were saying yes, it does count. From your reasons, it sounds like you meant yes, it counts as a dead end city; that is, it qualifies for the thread. But you were unintentionally saying yes, it counts as an exception.
So the answer, once and for all, is no: Kaskaskia is
not an exception, because additional routes could easily be built to it.
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
it happens also to be a Hasidic community, with the interesting result that at least a couple of street signs can be found in Yiddish (https://goo.gl/maps/3fimNV4EMCT2).
That is Hebrew, not Yiddish, and is not a street sign, at least not for vehicular traffic. It marks how far one is allowed to carry one's belongings on the Sabbath. No carrying beyond the point of he sign.
Quote from: bzakharin on December 20, 2016, 02:29:10 PM
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
it happens also to be a Hasidic community, with the interesting result that at least a couple of street signs can be found in Yiddish (https://goo.gl/maps/3fimNV4EMCT2).
That is Hebrew, not Yiddish, and is not a street sign, at least not for vehicular traffic. It marks how far one is allowed to carry one's belongings on the Sabbath. No carrying beyond the point of he sign.
Ah, so it marks the eruv. I used to live next to one of those in Pittsburgh. :) I guess I'll count that as a sort-of navigational sign; it's true, though, that standard English signage is prevalent in the village.
I know that's Hebrew script, of course, although the community's vernacular language is Yiddish. But isn't Yiddish written in the Hebrew script? Or is there really no distinction between the two when referring to the written form?
iPhone
Quote from: empirestate on December 20, 2016, 03:06:49 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on December 20, 2016, 02:29:10 PM
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
it happens also to be a Hasidic community, with the interesting result that at least a couple of street signs can be found in Yiddish (https://goo.gl/maps/3fimNV4EMCT2).
That is Hebrew, not Yiddish, and is not a street sign, at least not for vehicular traffic. It marks how far one is allowed to carry one's belongings on the Sabbath. No carrying beyond the point of he sign.
Ah, so it marks the eruv. I used to live next to one of those in Pittsburgh. :) I guess I'll count that as a sort-of navigational sign; it's true, though, that standard English signage is prevalent in the village.
I know that's Hebrew script, of course, although the community's vernacular language is Yiddish. But isn't Yiddish written in the Hebrew script? Or is there really no distinction between the two when referring to the written form?
iPhone
Yes, it roughly translates "Eruv ends here". Yiddish does use Hebrew script, not to mention many Hebrew words (including, of course Eruv), but I'm pretty sure that sign would be considered a Hebrew sentence, not Yiddish
Quote from: bzakharin on December 20, 2016, 03:11:12 PM
Quote from: empirestate on December 20, 2016, 03:06:49 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on December 20, 2016, 02:29:10 PM
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
it happens also to be a Hasidic community, with the interesting result that at least a couple of street signs can be found in Yiddish (https://goo.gl/maps/3fimNV4EMCT2).
That is Hebrew, not Yiddish, and is not a street sign, at least not for vehicular traffic. It marks how far one is allowed to carry one's belongings on the Sabbath. No carrying beyond the point of he sign.
Ah, so it marks the eruv. I used to live next to one of those in Pittsburgh. :) I guess I'll count that as a sort-of navigational sign; it's true, though, that standard English signage is prevalent in the village.
I know that's Hebrew script, of course, although the community's vernacular language is Yiddish. But isn't Yiddish written in the Hebrew script? Or is there really no distinction between the two when referring to the written form?
iPhone
Yes, it roughly translates "Eruv ends here". Yiddish does use Hebrew script, not to mention many Hebrew words (including, of course Eruv), but I'm pretty sure that sign would be considered a Hebrew sentence, not Yiddish
Makes sense. After all, I suppose any writing of a rabbinical nature is considered Hebrew, almost by definition.
Hyder, Alaska?
If we're only counting public roads into the community, then Allagash, Maine would count. ME-161 is the only public road in.
Quote from: Beeper1 on December 21, 2016, 10:51:14 PM
Hyder, Alaska?
If we're only counting public roads into the community, then Allagash, Maine would count. ME-161 is the only public road in.
Hyder's probably a geographic exception. But Allagash should count, if the roads on the "far" side are private logging roads or a closed system. What signage is there approaching Allagash that informs of this?
iPhone
I was going to say Solomons, Maryland but then I remembered that there are side streets that form a loop from the south end of Route 2 to the other end of town to give drivers an easy way back out. Then I was going to say Mayo/Beverly Beach, Maryland but again, side streets form a turnaround from the end of Route 214.
I'll have to say Perryman, Maryland (which actually uses Aberdeen as its mailing address); there's no formal turnaround at the dead-end of Route 159.
People really suck at reading the first post.
Quote from: epzik8 on December 22, 2016, 03:50:54 PM
I was going to say Solomons, Maryland but then I remembered that there are side streets that form a loop from the south end of Route 2 to the other end of town to give drivers an easy way back out. Then I was going to say Mayo/Beverly Beach, Maryland but again, side streets form a turnaround from the end of Route 214.
I'll have to say Perryman, Maryland (which actually uses Aberdeen as its mailing address); there's no formal turnaround at the dead-end of Route 159.
None of these is a municipality.
Quote from: empirestate on December 22, 2016, 09:21:39 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on December 22, 2016, 03:50:54 PM
I was going to say Solomons, Maryland but then I remembered that there are side streets that form a loop from the south end of Route 2 to the other end of town to give drivers an easy way back out. Then I was going to say Mayo/Beverly Beach, Maryland but again, side streets form a turnaround from the end of Route 214.
I'll have to say Perryman, Maryland (which actually uses Aberdeen as its mailing address); there's no formal turnaround at the dead-end of Route 159.
None of these is a municipality.
Not to mention they're all on peninsulas.
Forgive my ignorance, but would Fort McMurray, Alberta count, or Fort Mackay? It would seem that in the news of the fires earlier this year there was a mention of only one real route in and out of town.
Quote from: tdindy88 on December 22, 2016, 09:44:23 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but would Fort McMurray, Alberta count, or Fort Mackay? It would seem that in the news of the fires earlier this year there was a mention of only one real route in and out of town.
It does (AL 63) but I don't think it qualifies under the OP's criteria since AL 63 continues beyond Fort McMurray (though it goes nowhere in particular).
Fort MacKay (where AL 63 ends) might qualify, as it's the only road into town, and the only other road leading out of town is a winter road.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on December 22, 2016, 11:04:53 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on December 22, 2016, 09:44:23 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but would Fort McMurray, Alberta count, or Fort Mackay? It would seem that in the news of the fires earlier this year there was a mention of only one real route in and out of town.
It does (AL 63) but I don't think it qualifies under the OP's criteria since AL 63 continues beyond Fort McMurray (though it goes nowhere in particular).
Fort MacKay (where AL 63 ends) might qualify, as it's the only road into town, and the only other road leading out of town is a winter road.
There seems to be an all-season road north of Fort McKay, to and perhaps beyond Bitumount (depending on the state of oil sands development, the endpoint might be a moving target). But that too seems to be a dead-end, except for the winter road.
Inuvik NT might qualify, though there's an all-season road north of town that by next year should be extended to Tuktoyaktuk, which would take over dead-end honors except for (per the OP's criteria) its being on the Arctic coast. Wrigley NT, though far from a "city", is the dead end of NT 1, except for a winter road extending north that is years away from conversion to an all-season road.
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2016, 09:36:25 PM
Quote from: empirestate on December 22, 2016, 09:21:39 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on December 22, 2016, 03:50:54 PM
I was going to say Solomons, Maryland but then I remembered that there are side streets that form a loop from the south end of Route 2 to the other end of town to give drivers an easy way back out. Then I was going to say Mayo/Beverly Beach, Maryland but again, side streets form a turnaround from the end of Route 214.
I'll have to say Perryman, Maryland (which actually uses Aberdeen as its mailing address); there's no formal turnaround at the dead-end of Route 159.
None of these is a municipality.
Not to mention they're all on peninsulas.
Right, which I didn't mention having already come to up short on the first qualification. (Perryman does seem to have an Air Force base next to it, which might not be considered a geographic constraint–but of course, it also seems to have multiple routes out.)
Quote from: empirestate on December 22, 2016, 08:30:15 AM
Quote from: Beeper1 on December 21, 2016, 10:51:14 PM
Hyder, Alaska?
If we're only counting public roads into the community, then Allagash, Maine would count. ME-161 is the only public road in.
Hyder's probably a geographic exception. But Allagash should count, if the roads on the "far" side are private logging roads or a closed system. What signage is there approaching Allagash that informs of this?
iPhone
There is no "dead end" signage heading into Allagash on ME-161, but once you drive west of town and cross the river, you eventually arrive at the North Maine Woods checkpoint, where you have to pay a fee if you want to travel the private logging road network that head west and south. These are gravel roads that technically can be used to go towards Quebec, but are long and remote and privately operated. Some are periodically closed to non-logging vehicles due to active logging activities in some areas.
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2016, 04:17:47 PM
People really suck at reading the first post.
To be fair, it's a really long first post with several restrictions. Is this an open internet forum or a mathematics symposium?
If it's an open internet forum, Trump is a shoehorn.
A truer statement will not be found.
Quote from: formulanone on December 27, 2016, 09:07:28 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2016, 04:17:47 PM
People really suck at reading the first post.
To be fair, it's a really long first post with several restrictions. Is this an open internet forum or a mathematics symposium?
Yeah, sorry for subjecting everyone to those four paragraphs. ;-)
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
No, this isn't another thread about the economic decline of urban areas. ;-)
From NY 45, the motorist bound for the village of New Square is directed to turn onto Washington Ave. But immediately upon turning, one finds this No Outlet sign (https://goo.gl/maps/ACTt2RtyKmP2). Indeed, Washington Ave. is the only road leading in and out of the village (Google shows two more side streets intersecting NY 45 just to the north, but these are only partially or unofficially opened, providing informal access at best). Like any village in NYS, New Square is a fully incorporated municipality–it happens also to be a Hasidic community, with the interesting result that at least a couple of street signs can be found in Yiddish (https://goo.gl/maps/3fimNV4EMCT2).
So I'm curious, where else is there a full-fledged municipality that has only one route in or out, such that somebody following signs to it would encounter either No Outlet or Dead End signage? For brevity's sake, exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island, unless there's something particularly notable about the signage at its entrance (for example: "Welcome to Anytown" and "Dead End" mounted on the same sign or assembly).
And again, actual municipalities only–no unincorporated residential areas, gated communities, HOAs, that kind of thing, unless they're legitimately incorporated governmental entities. Even with the geographic exclusion, I'm guessing there are more of these than I think there are, especially since some states do incorporate practically every little isolated subdivision that asks to. :D
Yes, there are 3 Hasidic Jewish communities in upstate NY (the largest is Kiryas Joel - soon to become Palm Tree, and then there's proposed Kiryas Square), extensions of the religious community based in Williamsburg and nearby sections of Brooklyn, NYC. I do know Hasidic and ultra-orthodox Jewish neighborhoods in West L.A. and in Palm Desert close to me (specifically Portola Avenue and Frank Sinatra Drive), where on Saturday mornings, you see couples in Hasidic garb walk under a mile to the nearest synagogue.
The most desolate community I can think of is Trona in CA in the northwest corner of San Bernardino county, less than 1,000 residents in the desert Searles Valley. More isolated than even Baker, which is of similar size, that town has the I-15 connecting them with L.A. and Las Vegas. And the 10% developed/ 90% undeveloped California City in eastern Kern county, now has over 25,000 residents, you need to drive 5 miles each way from CA SR 14 and CA SR 58 to get into the city, and its area is over 200 square miles.
Quote from: empirestate on December 31, 2016, 09:25:05 PM
Quote from: formulanone on December 27, 2016, 09:07:28 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2016, 04:17:47 PM
People really suck at reading the first post.
To be fair, it's a really long first post with several restrictions. Is this an open internet forum or a mathematics symposium?
Yeah, sorry for subjecting everyone to those four paragraphs. ;-)
I think you effectively knocked out every possible example via restrictions or argued it wasn't an effective enough municipality. The average traveler really doesn't care about its town charter or who makes decisions at the smallest possible governmental unit.
On the other hand, I could stand to read better, and there's literally thousands of HOA communities/islands/military bases.
How about Eagle, Alaska? Incorporated as a second-class city. Only road access is via the state-maintained Taylor Highway, about 60 miles north from the Taylor's junction with the Top of the World Highway.
The Taylor Highway connects in Eagle to a local road going a few miles east to unincorporated Eagle Village, and a "tractor trail" going a few miles west to nowhere in particular, but those are also dead ends.
Tanana, Alaska is also incorporated, and is across the Yukon River from the recently-opened Tofty Road spur from AK 2 in unincorporated Manley Hot Springs. A locally-operated and rather sketchy-looking "ferry", or a locally-maintained winter ice bridge, will take you the rest of the way to Tanana. Ultimately, Tanana may cease to be a "dead end" as the highway is extended west.
The small but incorporated native village of Teller, Alaska is at the west dead-end of the unnumbered and mostly unpaved Bob Blodgett Nome-Teller Highway. There's room to extend the highway further west on the Seward Peninsula, only there's nowhere worth going to except as part of a fantasized Bering Strait rail/road crossing to Russia (but there's a whole lot of nothing on the other side). Two other long spurs from Nome end at unincorporated and/or deceased communities.
Alas, Prudhoe Bay/Deadhorse (north end of AK 11), and Circle (east end of AK 6) are unincorporated.
Don't kbow if this was mentioned but La Push Washington only had one road in and out of town. West is the ocean.
Would Knotts Island, NC count?
Quote from: Jordanes on December 23, 2017, 09:56:31 AM
Would Knotts Island, NC count?
First sentence on Wikipedia:
Quote from: WikipediaKnotts Island is a marshy island and a small unincorporated community.
Unincorporated.
Also, it's surrounded by water, which disqualifies it further.
Estcourt Station, ME. Only way in and out is on a little road from Canada or by logging roads.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 23, 2017, 10:04:42 AM
Estcourt Station, ME. Only way in and out is on a little road from Canada or by logging roads.
Villages in Maine are not incorporated.
Quote from: formulanone on December 22, 2017, 07:47:19 AM
Quote from: empirestate on December 31, 2016, 09:25:05 PM
Quote from: formulanone on December 27, 2016, 09:07:28 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 22, 2016, 04:17:47 PM
People really suck at reading the first post.
To be fair, it's a really long first post with several restrictions. Is this an open internet forum or a mathematics symposium?
Yeah, sorry for subjecting everyone to those four paragraphs. ;-)
I think you effectively knocked out every possible example via restrictions or argued it wasn't an effective enough municipality. The average traveler really doesn't care about its town charter or who makes decisions at the smallest possible governmental unit.
On the other hand, I could stand to read better, and there's literally thousands of HOA communities/islands/military bases.
Well, yeah...my question was about something pretty specific, so it was necessary to knock out the, as you say, multitudinous other possible answers by applying restrictions. And, forgive me, but surely you don't suppose this forum is frequented by average travelers? Why, then, should I frame a query in a way that would make sense to them? :spin:
Alta, Utah is an incorporated town. There is only one road in or out, SR-210 which frequently closes in the winter for avalanche control.
Espanola Florida is a dead end of sorts on Flagler County CR13. The road does continue but many people are afraid to drive the dirt/old brick road
Taylor FL in Baker County is a dead end on CR125.
Steven Foster State Park in Georgia is a dead end on SR177, which has a gap across the Okeefenokee swamp.. however it my fail criteria since it deadends at swamp/water.. but a bridge could(however very unlikely even in the heyday of impossible roads being built from then 1930s to 50s) have been built
Z981
La Push to my knowledge isn't incorporated which would make it invalid however I'll leave it up just in case.
Coney Island, Missouri.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Coney+Island,+MO+65737/@36.5886078,-93.4110731,13.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x87cf1fba519d745b:0xecda1a69fa3ab57d!8m2!3d36.5931191!4d-93.3971299
Quote from: empirestate on December 18, 2016, 02:15:43 PM
exclude any examples where the community is isolated due to obvious geographic constraints, such as being located on a peninsula or island
Quote from: TBKS1 on December 26, 2017, 02:14:04 PM
Coney Island, Missouri.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Coney+Island,+MO+65737/@36.5886078,-93.4110731,13.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x87cf1fba519d745b:0xecda1a69fa3ab57d!8m2!3d36.5931191!4d-93.3971299
Whoops. I didn't see that.
Quote from: epzik8 on December 22, 2016, 03:50:54 PM
I was going to say Solomons, Maryland but then I remembered that there are side streets that form a loop from the south end of Route 2 to the other end of town to give drivers an easy way back out. Then I was going to say Mayo/Beverly Beach, Maryland but again, side streets form a turnaround from the end of Route 214.
I'll have to say Perryman, Maryland (which actually uses Aberdeen as its mailing address); there's no formal turnaround at the dead-end of Route 159.
Highland Beach, Maryland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Beach,_Maryland) is an incorporated municipality in Anne Arundel County. There's only one way in and out (by land at least - map (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Highland+Beach,+MD+21403/@38.9314843,-76.4714007,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b7f5f03e74e17d:0x7db6166a7d594378!8m2!3d38.9303911!4d-76.4657918)).
Is this a peninsula? I suppose it could be construed that way.
There is also the matter of Tangier, Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangier,_Virginia) (map (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tangier,+VA+23440/@37.8237716,-76.0007688,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b989f7e80a49e3:0x63571185a03d2247!8m2!3d37.8262373!4d-75.9916035)). This is a small incorporated municipality in Accomack County located on an island in the Chesapeake Bay. All of its narrow streets, roads and bridges are maintained by the Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT). The only way on or off is by ferry or by aircraft, so there is really no dead-end, but I include it here for your amusement. There is a (modest) fleet of cars on the island, which were presumably brought over by barge, but there's no public ferry service (and IMO it would be a waste of money to bring a motor vehicle here to visit).
El Cenizo and Rio Bravo in Webb County, Texas, both qualify (technically Rio Bravo has two roads out of it, but one goes to El Cenizo). Google Maps shows some other roads that ultimately connect to US 83, but I'm pretty sure they're private ranch access roads not open to public traffic.