Does anyone here know why "BY-PASS" (with the hyphen) is used for route marker banners instead of "BYPASS" (without the banner)?
In normal English language usage, the word is very rarely seen with the hyphen. "Dick Cheney had triple-bypass heart surgery" or "The state is building a new bypass to route through traffic away from downtown."
Why, then, do road signs use the hyphen?
I would imagine just convention. That's how it was spelled in the earliest days of highway signage, and I guess no reason to change it up. Though "bypass" does make for a simpler aesthetic.
Because MUTCD calls for that way for standard sign M4-2. Don't know why they do it thaat way.
Anyone know what the etymology of the word "bypass" is? I wonder if that might provide a clue as to the hyphen. I'm remembering how some British writers traditionally wrote "to-day" or "to-morrow" (example: I seem to recall that in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe when Peter wants to withdraw the camp across the river, Aslan says the White Witch "will not attempt an attack to-day"). I read somewhere that once upon a time it was actually two words, "to day," that first got joined by a hyphen and later became one word, I guess sort of similar to how some people now spell "e-mail" without the hyphen.
My gut feeling, which may be totally wrong, is that the term "by-pass" was intended to emphasize that you were "passing by," rather than "passing through," and then over time when the term "business route" became standard for the latter, maybe there was less need for the emphasizing hyphen because people understood the "business"/"bypass" distinction (well, except for the Bing Maps people who think "BL" for "business loop" and "BR" for "business route" stand for "boulevard" and "branch," respectively!).
The Virginia CTB started using by-pass in 1930 and the word bypass started in 1931. Used interchangeably and probably a function of either the person typing up the minutes or the commissioner who wrote the entry on their notes...
Quote from: Quillz on January 22, 2017, 12:12:05 AM
I would imagine just convention. That's how it was spelled in the earliest days of highway signage, and I guess no reason to change it up.
Similarly, I always think it a little quaint when I see the words "hi-way" and "to-day" on signs in old pictures and old television shows, but that used to be the norm.
Quote from: Big John on January 22, 2017, 12:13:23 AM
Because MUTCD calls for that way for standard sign M4-2. Don't know why they do it thaat way.
That's what I'm asking. Why does the MUTCD call for that?
All I know is that it's a sticking point in our office. My boss believes it should be hyphenated "because that's the way he's always done it" and because it's that way in the MUTCD. Dictionaries be damned. Sometimes we wonder if he gets paid by the hyphen (bypass is not the only word he does this with).
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 22, 2017, 09:31:28 AM
Anyone know what the etymology of the word "bypass" is? I wonder if that might provide a clue as to the hyphen. I'm remembering how some British writers traditionally wrote "to-day" or "to-morrow" (example: I seem to recall that in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe when Peter wants to withdraw the camp across the river, Aslan says the White Witch "will not attempt an attack to-day"). I read somewhere that once upon a time it was actually two words, "to day," that first got joined by a hyphen and later became one word, I guess sort of similar to how some people now spell "e-mail" without the hyphen.
My gut feeling, which may be totally wrong, is that the term "by-pass" was intended to emphasize that you were "passing by," rather than "passing through," and then over time when the term "business route" became standard for the latter, maybe there was less need for the emphasizing hyphen because people understood the "business"/"bypass" distinction (well, except for the Bing Maps people who think "BL" for "business loop" and "BR" for "business route" stand for "boulevard" and "branch," respectively!).
Many words that were once hyphenated in the past are now more commonly not hyphenated. It seems to be a product of language. Many compound works invented by Shakespeare, such as "doghouse," used to be commonly spelled as "dog-house." Email is another good example.
It may be BY-PASS to the MUTCD, but not everyone goes along with it: https://goo.gl/maps/XASAyqdXYxx (https://goo.gl/maps/XASAyqdXYxx)
I'm sure I've seen other banners without the hyphen, but the exact locations elude me.
Quote from: theline on January 22, 2017, 08:53:13 PM
It may be BY-PASS to the MUTCD, but not everyone goes along with it: https://goo.gl/maps/XASAyqdXYxx (https://goo.gl/maps/XASAyqdXYxx)
I'm sure I've seen other banners without the hyphen, but the exact locations elude me.
It took me three and a half hours to find the word "Bypass".
I'm pretty sure Hawaii has used "Bypass" without the
banner hyphen, but I can't find any evidence.
New Hampshire has this one without a hyphen on I-95. Or at least they did as of December 26, 2003, when this was taken.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teresco.org%2Fpics%2Fsigns%2F20031226%2Fexit5.jpg&hash=87db65142abcf6a49c18772d3cee15d3deab83c8)
H.B. - I'm glad you posted this topic because that hyphen has always bothered me too when I've seen it.
This reminds me of how some highways (particularly U.S. highways) have a distinction between the "truck" route and the "business" route going around or through (respectively) a city of any significant size. I think I've seen this quite a bit in Kentucky and Tennessee, actually. In those instances, it almost seems like there's a gap in the regular (mainline) route... like that route just stops and you can only choose between the truck (or bypass) option and the business route. In those cases, I would love to see assemblies that just have the shield on top and maybe the words "Truck Route" in parentheses underneath the shield. I don't like the term "bypass" being used in those instances either because it almost makes it sound like it's a bypass of the mainline route... not a bypass of the city. Maybe the words "city bypass" in parentheses under the shield would make some sense.
Quote from: A.J. Bertin on January 23, 2017, 06:54:56 AM
H.B. - I'm glad you posted this topic because that hyphen has always bothered me too when I've seen it.
This reminds me of how some highways (particularly U.S. highways) have a distinction between the "truck" route and the "business" route going around or through (respectively) a city of any significant size. I think I've seen this quite a bit in Kentucky and Tennessee, actually. In those instances, it almost seems like there's a gap in the regular (mainline) route... like that route just stops and you can only choose between the truck (or bypass) option and the business route. In those cases, I would love to see assemblies that just have the shield on top and maybe the words "Truck Route" in parentheses underneath the shield. I don't like the term "bypass" being used in those instances either because it almost makes it sound like it's a bypass of the mainline route... not a bypass of the city. Maybe the words "city bypass" in parentheses under the shield would make some sense.
Kentucky is inconsistent when it comes to signing bypass and business routes.
I'm old enough to remember when North Carolina signed both whenever a route split. The mainline came to an end, and you had a choice of taking the business or bypass route.
However, Kentucky only catalogs one or the other -- you either have the mainline and a bypass route, or the mainline and a business route. (Sometimes signs indicate otherwise, however.) Use US 127 as an example. If you are traveling south from Frankfort, the mainline US 127 turns off the four-lane into downtown Lawrenceburg. The through movement (straight) is signed as BY-PASS 127. Go farther south to Harrodsburg, and the through movement remains mainline US 127 and the bypass, which is signed as such, requires a left turn. Then go on to Danville, and the through route continues straight as the bypass and the mainline regular route turns left and goes through town.
The next split is in Jamestown, Ky., where mainline US 127 follows the new bypass and the old route through town is signed BUSINESS 127. The same is done in Albany, where the new bypass carries the mainline and the business route follows the old route through town.
You could chalk this up to a difference in highway districts (Lawrenceburg, Harrodsburg and Danville are in District 7, while Jamestown and Albany are in District 8). But that doesn't explain US 27 in Nicholasville, where the bypass is the mainline and the old route through town is signed as the business route; or US 68 in Paris, where the same thing happens, and both of those are in District 7.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 23, 2017, 12:37:13 PM
I'm old enough to remember when North Carolina signed both whenever a route split. The mainline came to an end, and you had a choice of taking the business or bypass route.
I am also old enough to remember this in NC.
It turns out that when they stopped posting the bypasses with the actual bypass banner, they also put in route change documents internally to renumber US 1 Bypass as US 1 for example.
There are also AASHTO minutes that have granted approval to bypasses provided they do not sign with the bypass banner.
An aside about how Kentucky catalogs the routes -- routes signed as bypass are internally called "nnB." Business routes are "nnX" which no doubt led to the signage of US 31EX in Mt. Washington instead of Business US 31E.
Quote from: jakeroot on January 22, 2017, 09:12:50 PM
Quote from: theline on January 22, 2017, 08:53:13 PM
It may be BY-PASS to the MUTCD, but not everyone goes along with it: https://goo.gl/maps/XASAyqdXYxx (https://goo.gl/maps/XASAyqdXYxx)
I'm sure I've seen other banners without the hyphen, but the exact locations elude me.
It took me three and a half hours to find the word "Bypass".
I'm pretty sure Hawaii has used "Bypass" without the banner hyphen, but I can't find any evidence.
I'm sorry that I made that tough on you, jakeroot, as well as any others that had trouble. It's the best I could do with GSV. The BYPASS banner is very small, for some reason.
In fact, the banner is erroneous. This exit has for decades been the mainline US 31, so the shield should be unbannered. The other South Bend ITR exit is properly signed as BUSINESS US 31. A long time ago, the BYPASS banner was appropriate here. I suppose that the banner may have been retained for the benefit of travelers to Notre Dame, who might otherwise exit here, several miles from campus.
Quote from: theline on January 23, 2017, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 22, 2017, 09:12:50 PM
Quote from: theline on January 22, 2017, 08:53:13 PM
It may be BY-PASS to the MUTCD, but not everyone goes along with it: https://goo.gl/maps/XASAyqdXYxx (https://goo.gl/maps/XASAyqdXYxx)
I'm sure I've seen other banners without the hyphen, but the exact locations elude me.
It took me three and a half hours to find the word "Bypass".
I'm pretty sure Hawaii has used "Bypass" without the banner hyphen, but I can't find any evidence.
I'm sorry that I made that tough on you, jakeroot, as well as any others that had trouble. It's the best I could do with GSV. The BYPASS banner is very small, for some reason.
Haha it's cool mate. It didn't really take me that long (notice the time I replied to you, versus the time you posted). It's certainly a smaller banner than I would prefer, but it works (minus the fact that its now erroneous, per your response that I clipped).
Louisiana uses the hyphen. For some reason I thought our bypass examples were one word. Here are a few pictures. Old signs and new ones.
I-20/I-220 in Bossier City
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170124/331d16068c4d87db72aba567851e6d0f.jpg)
I-49/US 71/US167 in Alexandria
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170124/8725426d8c0498b756d7889e2ab929b0.jpg)
I-10/I-210 in Lake Charles
(This used to say Lake Charles Loop)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170124/57fea6e9bc8d10973ac4d98c49c99282.jpg)
LA-1 in Natchitoches
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170124/af30fbb458647cf66173bcf0aea15c1a.jpg)
iPhone
Is there any state that regularly posts banners that just say "BYP"? That seems like it would be enough to do the trick.
I want to say the official standards say "ALTERNATE" but "ALT" is common, too...
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 24, 2017, 08:02:18 AM
Is there any state that regularly posts banners that just say "BYP"? That seems like it would be enough to do the trick.
If there were, we'd have a certain forum member who could legitimately say that certain roads "byp." And I guess other roads would "pyb."
Quote from: hbelkins on January 24, 2017, 10:44:28 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 24, 2017, 08:02:18 AM
Is there any state that regularly posts banners that just say "BYP"? That seems like it would be enough to do the trick.
If there were, we'd have a certain forum member who could legitimately say that certain roads "byp." And I guess other roads would "pyb."
Beat me to it.
Quote from: theline on January 22, 2017, 08:53:13 PM
It may be BY-PASS to the MUTCD, but not everyone goes along with it: https://goo.gl/maps/XASAyqdXYxx (https://goo.gl/maps/XASAyqdXYxx)
I'm sure I've seen other banners without the hyphen, but the exact locations elude me.
Georgia seems to buck this trend in general. There aren't that many signed BYPASS routes in the state, but I can't recall any of them using hyphens. Here's an example for I-285:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ften93.com%2F2017%2Fsign_photos%2Fi75s_i285_n_ramp.jpg&hash=d43ee95f016117d06fd68d8f46ac2a237ecc9a18)
WisDOT is inconsistent... the official sign plate (http://wisconsindot.gov/dtsdManuals/traffic-ops/manuals-and-standards/signplate/mseries/M4-2.pdf) for a route marker assembly shows it hyphenated (even going as far as to dimension the hyphen specially), however, the overhead guide signs (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1624292,-88.0675191,3a,75y,134.63h,77.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swB-NiE_frhT1nzvNuYm7Yg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) are un-hyphenated.
I can't think of a sign in MI that says bypass, with or without the hyphen.
Incidentally, dictionary.com and other online sources give the hyphen as an alternate spelling, but note that it was the original usage.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 22, 2017, 09:31:28 AMAnyone know what the etymology of the word "bypass" is? I wonder if that might provide a clue as to the hyphen. I'm remembering how some British writers traditionally wrote "to-day" or "to-morrow" (example: I seem to recall that in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe when Peter wants to withdraw the camp across the river, Aslan says the White Witch "will not attempt an attack to-day"). I read somewhere that once upon a time it was actually two words, "to day," that first got joined by a hyphen and later became one word, I guess sort of similar to how some people now spell "e-mail" without the hyphen.
Open compound to hyphenated compound to closed compound is a fairly standard transition.
Bye-pass is another old (in my experience, exclusively British) alternate spelling.
In names it was common to capitalize both syllables (
By-Pass, not
By-pass) and quite frequently
bypass was used as an adjective instead of being left to stand alone as a noun: e.g., "Guildford-Godalming By-Pass Road."
Interesting observation. I personally use "bypass" rather than "by-pass," but I can see why the latter is used officially as it sounds like it may have been the original spelling. Personally, I prefer the former, probably because it is what I am used to in casual spelling and I have seen this variation most of the time in my life. But I can see how the hyphenated variation of the word may have been more common practice back in the day, and hence it is still standard in the MUTCD.
The funny thing is that these (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6879688,-78.8467397,3a,15y,91.8h,99.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHDYZD4vzX0tF9Zvk5XXpXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) signs use both BYPASS and BY-PASS. The one on the right is newer though. I honestly don't have a emotion against them but it just appears that BYPASS is the old way of signing it. By the way, it's not called NC 55 bypass anymore so therefore both of the BYPASS on the signs should be removed.
The funny thing is you bumped a five-year-old thread to post something that didn't even belong in this thread to begin with. Get thee to one of the unusual sign threads.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 11, 2022, 02:17:29 PM
The funny thing is you bumped a five-year-old thread to post something that didn't even belong in this thread to begin with. Get thee to one of the unusual sign threads.
I didn't know where to post them so I just posted them here.
Bumping a 5-year-old thread is only the solution if the problem is specifically wanting to continue the conversation from the old thread.
- Showing a new example of a thing others already posted examples of in that thread: no
- Talking about something similar but not the same as the old thread: no
- Talking about something totally off-topic: no
- Peekaboo: no
Honestly, if I were in AASHTO, I would try to eliminate the bypass routes altogether. Why not just move the mainline to the road that benefits more long-distance travelers? Having a business loop through town just makes a lot more sense than the opposite. The only one that I'm ok with keeping is Bypass US 17 in Elizabeth City, NC, since there are both a business and a bypass route that are different from the mainline there, but one of those could just as easily be re-designated as an alternate.