I think Wisconsin is one of the best states I've seen at signage.
- Multiplexes are well signed (41/43/894/41)? Nice!
- Well signed secondary system with the county trunks.
- JCT are always well signed
- Alternates for most Interstates
- There is usually an assembly before an intersection showing which way to turn for which highway/direction
There's my nominee.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 07, 2017, 02:20:52 PM
I think Wisconsin is one of the best states I've seen at signage.
- Multiplexes are well signed (41/43/894/41)? Nice!
- Well signed secondary system with the county trunks.
- JCT are always well signed
- Alternates for most Interstates
- There is usually an assembly before an intersection showing which way to turn for which highway/direction
There's my nominee.
Can't disagree with that with the possible exception of Waukesha County which sometimes does not mark county highways well in urban areas.
Living in Maryland, I would say they do a pretty good job at signing state routes, as well as U.S. routes and Interstates. There are reassurance shields on non-freeways not just after every crossing of a numbered highway, but after certain intersections with unnumbered county-maintained roads as well. Except for the state's most urban areas (Baltimore, basically), I don't think any freeway exit in Maryland isn't followed by a reassurance shield. Almost every crossing of a numbered highway on the majority of the state's non-freeways are preceded by either a "JCT (route number)" marker or, at some traffic lights, a green sign consisting of the route marker, the road name that the intersecting route carries, and the words "NEXT SIGNAL" at the bottom.
One of the best is Ohio.
- The interstates are well signed, including cross-route shields on BGSs (except for the Innerbelt in Cleveland -- Hello Superior & Chester Avenues!!!).
- Regular State and US highways are almost always well marked, almost always marking junctions with other numbered highways in advance of, and at, intersections.
- Also from these route junctions outside of urban areas, control cities are usually noted with advance signage AND mileage, and there are usually mileage signs just past said junctions of the more major highways.
- Multiplexes are numbered, although US or State Highways which follow interstates could use a little work.
- Highway route ends are more times than not acknowledged.
Colorado, on the other hand is one of the worst.
- The very rarely acknowledge multiplexes with interstates, nor acknowledge paralleling routes which cross & have exits for them on BGSs.
- Multiplexed highway designations vary from region to region.
- Non freeway route junctions with same may or may not have advance signage, nor adequate signage at the actual junction.
- Control cities with mileages prior to a junction/intersection are virtually non-existent, but mileage signs just past major intersections outside of the urban areas is pretty good.
- Seeing non-freeway reassurance shields on a regular basis also vary from region to region. Interstate reassurance shields are plentiful.
- Routes end with no fanfare (or signage) 95% of the time
On signs with specific errors, Colorado has plenty -- especially in Western Colorado: Using I- shields for BL- shields, un-aligned or incorrect number of pull-through arrows for the number of road lanes below, not using arrows on BGSs at freeway exits (opting for NEXT RIGHT instead).
Arizona was awesome back in their button copy days, but when they switched to Clearview they didn't do it properly and their freeways signs started looking pretty bad. I've never had a problem with their route marking habits.
New York has to be treated like 11 different mini-states because no two regions do things the same, but NYSDOT R3 (Syracuse) is top notch.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:30:16 PM
One of the best is Ohio.
- The interstates are well signed, including cross-route shields on BGSs (except for the Innerbelt in Cleveland -- Hello Superior & Chester Avenues!!!).
- Regular State and US highways are almost always well marked, almost always marking junctions with other numbered highways in advance of, and at, intersections.
- Also from these route junctions outside of urban areas, control cities are usually noted with advance signage AND mileage, and there are usually mileage signs just past said junctions of the more major highways.
- Multiplexes are numbered, although US or State Highways which follow interstates could use a little work.
- Highway route ends are more times than not acknowledged.
Agree. And the bolded point is one thing I really like and find lacking in the other states I most frequently travel through.
Another point I'll add is that at most interchanges, the ramp entrance signage from the non freeway is either a BGS with a control city on it, or at least a LGS with the shield and ^> arrows with the directions. I haven't seen too many instances where the ramp entrances have been marked by regular stand alone route signs, and one of the ones I do know of like that (at OH 4 & US 23) used to have BGS
Quote from: upstatenyroads on February 07, 2017, 08:12:50 PM
Arizona was awesome back in their button copy days, but when they switched to Clearview they didn't do it properly and their freeways signs started looking pretty bad. I've never had a problem with their route marking habits.
New York has to be treated like 11 different mini-states because no two regions do things the same, but NYSDOT R3 (Syracuse) is top notch.
Something I'll give ADOT some credit on is that they sign "TO" routes very well. AZ 238 is a good example where there doesn't need to be any continuation signage on non-DOT owned roadway but you have signs from Gila Bend showing you where to go:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.9529733,-112.6910866,3a,37.5y,90h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjsRBE1kXXr8JrOiVLnN5ew!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en
I could swear there was a TO AZ 288 at one point on AZ 260 but I can't find it on the GSV.
I like how Florida does things almost solely because somehow the County Routes tend to be incorporated into overall state grid and are very well signed. It is very difficult to find aged State Road signage anywhere in Florida anymore either, no Keys Shields, or colored US Routes....at least that I could find.
Texas, North Carolina, and Michigan create signage so consistent, you could set your watch to it. Missing, awkward, or misaligned signage is rare in those states.
I'll contest that Ohio, Connecticut, California, New York, Florida, and Alabama also have pockets of old or curious signage which are more fun for the signgeek in me, but vary in consistency and application.
Quote from: formulanone on February 07, 2017, 10:59:00 PM
Texas, North Carolina, and Michigan create signage so consistent, you could set your watch to it. Missing, awkward, or misaligned signage is rare in those states.
I'll contest that Ohio, Connecticut, California, New York, Florida, and Alabama also have pockets of old or curious signage which are more fun for the signgeek in me, but vary in consistency and application.
State roads in Florida are marked pretty well. However a lot of counties suck
LGMS428
Idaho's signage is remarkably consistent and well done, if not very interesting. I struggle to come up with somewhere where signage lacks necessary information.
Wyoming also has excellent signage, and their signage is sometimes visually interesting too! Wyoming's only failure is not always signing minor state highways from the interstates, but the state does an admirable job signing its (many!) concurrencies.
Concerning Texas, the FM road I drive most frequent has half of its signal ahead signs missing (they fell off due to only having two brackets), one sign knocked down, and at a junction, all four route marker assemblies turn freely with the wind. It has been like this over a year.
Tarrant county has always been atrociously bad, with tons of missing and severely deteriorated signage.
Other areas of the state are much better maintained.
In Florida, signage isn't super great. They fail to post diagram signs at intersections with double turns, fail to sign multiplexes consistently (Esp around Tavares), and mis-use diagonal arrows on overhead signs at intersections, and their signal-mounted street name signs only give the name of the street to the right when it is a different name on the left.
Quote from: formulanone on February 07, 2017, 10:59:00 PM
Texas, North Carolina, and Michigan create signage so consistent, you could set your watch to it. Missing, awkward, or misaligned signage is rare in those states.
Kansas belongs in this category. There are a few odd signs due to emergency knockdown replacements, but the typical sign is well-designed, clear, and consistent in layout from panel to panel.
Quote from: Brian556 on February 08, 2017, 01:37:12 AMand their signal-mounted street name signs only give the name of the street to the right when it is a different name on the left.
In most cases where I've seen that, the street-name sign on the left of the intersection will have the left-side name, and be visible from both directions.
Quote from: jwolfer on February 07, 2017, 11:33:26 PM
Quote from: formulanone on February 07, 2017, 10:59:00 PM
I'll contest that Ohio, Connecticut, California, New York, Florida, and Alabama also have pockets of old or curious signage which are more fun for the signgeek in me, but vary in consistency and application.
State roads in Florida are marked pretty well. However a lot of counties suck[/size]
It varies from county to county, and that's not just for county road signing, but also for state roads,
Pasco County is very good about posting their county roads and state roads as well. They even use end placards. Others like Hillsborough do not acknowledge their county roads in general.
For old signs, the Panhandle has a few counties with scores of sign finds. But at the same time, Escambia County does not bother maintaining signs for their county roads in urban areas. This seems to be a problem across a lot of other cities in the state.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:30:16 PM
One of the best is Ohio.
- The interstates are well signed, including cross-route shields on BGSs (except for the Innerbelt in Cleveland -- Hello Superior & Chester Avenues!!!).
- Regular State and US highways are almost always well marked, almost always marking junctions with other numbered highways in advance of, and at, intersections.
- Also from these route junctions outside of urban areas, control cities are usually noted with advance signage AND mileage, and there are usually mileage signs just past said junctions of the more major highways.
- Multiplexes are numbered, although US or State Highways which follow interstates could use a little work.
- Highway route ends are more times than not acknowledged.
For the most part, I agree,
however, one of the things Ohio does too often is use the wrong shield for state and US routes. I have not seen this on a BGS, but frequently on city streets. This is especially irritating since there is no duplication of routes between state and US (and Interstates), so when the sign shop makes a sign, say for US-127, there is no reason they would ever need to make an OH-127 sign, but they do (because I've seen them). For a couple of years, there was an OH-71 sign on Williams Avenue in Norwood indicating the upcoming ramp to I-71.
Quote from: frankenroad on February 08, 2017, 10:07:06 AM
For the most part, I agree, however, one of the things Ohio does too often is use the wrong shield for state and US routes. I have not seen this on a BGS, but frequently on city streets. This is especially irritating since there is no duplication of routes between state and US (and Interstates), so when the sign shop makes a sign, say for US-127, there is no reason they would ever need to make an OH-127 sign, but they do (because I've seen them).
Virginia often messes-up shields. Usually it is about getting state primary system and state secondary system shields confused, but I have also seen places where a primary system shield was used for a U.S. route.
Kansas is pretty good except with US 40 on I-70. It is acknowledged on confirmation shields post interchange, but many freeway ramps omit the route especially on I-135 & US 81 in Salina.
Virginia sometimes is overkill and in independent cities forget it! Try to find US 60 in VA Beach or even US 58 and its business child.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 08, 2017, 03:56:58 AM
Quote from: formulanone on February 07, 2017, 10:59:00 PM
Texas, North Carolina, and Michigan create signage so consistent, you could set your watch to it. Missing, awkward, or misaligned signage is rare in those states.
Kansas belongs in this category. There are a few odd signs due to emergency knockdown replacements, but the typical sign is well-designed, clear, and consistent in layout from panel to panel.
I'd say Kansas, as well as Iowa, seem to be continuously well-signed. I haven't spent as much time there, but I can't think of too many duds.
Quote from: corco on February 07, 2017, 11:37:51 PM
Idaho's signage is remarkably consistent and well done, if not very interesting. I struggle to come up with somewhere where signage lacks necessary information.
I agree, with one big exception. Mileage and signage to Boise on US-95 southbound from Lewiston. From what I can tell, all the mileage signs are based on how long if you were to take US-95 to ID-55 through McCall.
However, when you reach New Meadows, all signage points you right to US-95, not ID-55. It's a "better" through route (less curvy, less steep grades, less winter weather), but it's ~30 miles longer to Boise and it makes all previous mileage signs inaccurate.
However, they do a decent job signing multiplexes (such as ID-55 multiplex with I-84, which would be easy for them to gloss over; they aren't consistently signed at every onramp, but they are on all the reassurance markers), and routes are pretty easy to follow in urban areas. US-20 and 26 are pretty well signed through Boise. Some cities/states just pretend the highways don't exist there. So generally I'm happy with Idaho's signage.
Indot does a good job at signing their highways every turn is signed that I've come across.
Quote from: frankenroad on February 08, 2017, 10:07:06 AM
For the most part, I agree, however, one of the things Ohio does too often is use the wrong shield for state and US routes. I have not seen this on a BGS, but frequently on city streets. This is especially irritating since there is no duplication of routes between state and US (and Interstates), so when the sign shop makes a sign, say for US-127, there is no reason they would ever need to make an OH-127 sign, but they do (because I've seen them). For a couple of years, there was an OH-71 sign on Williams Avenue in Norwood indicating the upcoming ramp to I-71.
True, Ohio does have some issues in this area.
In fact, back in 2005 ODOT repaved US 20 through Bellevue and installed new signals and signage.....with every single new 20 shield showing it as a state route. That prompted me to send my first ever email to ODOT, and within a month the signs were all replaced with proper US 20 shields. There was even a story on the front page of the Sandusky Register about them having to change them all (must have been a slow news day)
Quote from: formulanone on February 07, 2017, 10:59:00 PM
Texas, North Carolina, and Michigan create signage so consistent, you could set your watch to it. Missing, awkward, or misaligned signage is rare in those states.
Michigan is pretty good, except surface streets in Detroit.
And counties, it's totally up to the county road commission. Many of them don't even sign the Michigan "County-Designated" Highways that appear on the state highway map. Other counties, especially the more rural ones, number and sign every road.
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 08, 2017, 03:42:55 PM
Indot does a good job at signing their highways every turn is signed that I've come across.
I'll give a nod to Indiana for having non freeway Junction's well marked -- some with overhead signage showing all route options/directions at said junction.
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 08, 2017, 03:42:55 PM
Indot does a good job at signing their highways every turn is signed that I've come across.
Whenever there isn't a gap of course.
Regarding this topic, I'd like to point out that Minnesota was a pioneer in signage and sign standards development, and is the key reason why we have the MUTCD today.
Quote from: Brian556 on February 08, 2017, 01:37:12 AM
Concerning Texas, the FM road I drive most frequent has half of its signal ahead signs missing (they fell off due to only having two brackets), one sign knocked down, and at a junction, all four route marker assemblies turn freely with the wind. It has been like this over a year.
Tarrant county has always been atrociously bad, with tons of missing and severely deteriorated signage.
Other areas of the state are much better maintained.
In Florida, signage isn't super great. They fail to post diagram signs at intersections with double turns, fail to sign multiplexes consistently (Esp around Tavares), and mis-use diagonal arrows on overhead signs at intersections, and their signal-mounted street name signs only give the name of the street to the right when it is a different name on the left.
Agree with this. I also disagree with many of Texas' signage concepts. They tend toward LGS and shield assemblies in environments where BGS installations would provide much needed clarity. They also tend to omit control cities where they would be useful toward directing traffic flows; for example, with the numerous beltways surrounding Texas cities.
New Jersey started getting good with their overhead street signs being consistent on the state maintained signs. The mileage signs, that listed points along the way and only cities where the route actually entered except I-80 and I-295. The former does use NYC eastbound and the latter uses Ewing in where I-295 does not enter its township at all. I believe that NJDOT considers I-80 and the free NJ Turnpike to be one route and I-295 and the free I-95 to be one route as well. Anyway, signs would only be posted after each point is reached.
Thus even though poorly picked control points and sign placement, and removal upon construction projects, they were consistent at the time they were all erected.
Quote from: formulanone on February 08, 2017, 01:05:23 PM
I'd say Kansas, as well as Iowa, seem to be continuously well-signed. I haven't spent as much time there, but I can't think of too many duds.
Iowa is fantastic, except in the Des Moines metro area with respect to surface streets (can't speak of other major cities, as I haven't spent much time in them). They are really slow at replacing knocked down markers, and the junctions of US-6/IA-415 (Euclid Ave and 2nd Ave, respectively) and US-69/IA-163 (E 14th St and E University Ave, respectively) are rather poorly signed.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 08, 2017, 12:20:57 PM
Quote from: frankenroad on February 08, 2017, 10:07:06 AM
For the most part, I agree, however, one of the things Ohio does too often is use the wrong shield for state and US routes. I have not seen this on a BGS, but frequently on city streets. This is especially irritating since there is no duplication of routes between state and US (and Interstates), so when the sign shop makes a sign, say for US-127, there is no reason they would ever need to make an OH-127 sign, but they do (because I've seen them).
Virginia often messes-up shields. Usually it is about getting state primary system and state secondary system shields confused, but I have also seen places where a primary system shield was used for a U.S. route.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2FVA-29%2520SB_zps9setvs5r.png&hash=1122a71d0df1e40d738780de4c44fe98b8c590d9)
Quote from TX to NJ:
QuoteAgree with this. I also disagree with many of Texas' signage concepts. They tend toward LGS and shield assemblies in environments where BGS installations would provide much needed clarity. They also tend to omit control cities where they would be useful toward directing traffic flows; for example, with the numerous beltways surrounding Texas cities.
I fully agree, and have noticed several locations like this.
As far as omitting control cities, here is a prime example:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2558691,-97.1711587,3a,44.9y,274.51h,94.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syzoww-5FElHJF1Kug1_2HQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2558691,-97.1711587,3a,44.9y,274.51h,94.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syzoww-5FElHJF1Kug1_2HQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
They also need to use overhead turn/straight only signs instead of diagram signs in many situations. Having four lanes on a side mounted diagram sign is just too difficult to discern
Here is a prime example, and one of the worst. The diagram signs are completely useless, because you cannot tell if the left or right thru lane become a turn lane. They are also completely wrong now that the intersection has a double turn.
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.068916,-97.0822467,3a,75y,338.99h,87.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJ8QHbuYdqIlYMhiXq0cFhg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DJ8QHbuYdqIlYMhiXq0cFhg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D105.09634%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.068916,-97.0822467,3a,75y,338.99h,87.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJ8QHbuYdqIlYMhiXq0cFhg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DJ8QHbuYdqIlYMhiXq0cFhg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D105.09634%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)
Louisiana used to be good at signing junctions & multiplexes...but within the last 5-10 years they have been using Arkansas's signage playbook. :no: :pan: X-(
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:30:16 PM
One of the best is Ohio.
- The interstates are well signed, including cross-route shields on BGSs (except for the Innerbelt in Cleveland -- Hello Superior & Chester Avenues!!!).
- Regular State and US highways are almost always well marked, almost always marking junctions with other numbered highways in advance of, and at, intersections.
- Also from these route junctions outside of urban areas, control cities are usually noted with advance signage AND mileage, and there are usually mileage signs just past said junctions of the more major highways.
- Multiplexes are numbered, although US or State Highways which follow interstates could use a little work.
- Highway route ends are more times than not acknowledged.
In most of the areas of the state I've driven in, this is true. Ohio makes these routes easy to follow. However, downtown Cincinnati is really shoddy in places.
-Southbound US 27 has no signs from Mehring Way or Rose Way telling drivers about either left turn required to get to the bridge to Kentucky.
-US 42 is followable on signs alone southbound, but following it northbound requires a good map, guesswork, or luck to come out the other side. The NB turn off of Elm Street has a sign, but it's well hidden.
-US 22 has an end sign, but there's no mention of any of the US routes you can turn onto when it does end.
-On NB Central, there's a JCT OH 264 sign in hanging in between the signals at 5th, but there's nothing telling you exactly where it is or how to get to it.
-While not great signage, US 52 eastbound can be followed on signs alone. I have done so. Westbound appears to be manageable.
In this area, there are a ton of missing turn indicators for following the routes (looking at you, US 42 NB!). There are few mentions of cross routes. For example, on 3rd Street eastbound (which is NB US 42/127), approaching Central, there should be signs saying you need to turn left to continue on US 42/127 and a sign saying US 27/52 is the cross street. There are no signs at all.
I think a lot of US 27's signage got lost in the construction that took place in the area when Riverfront Stadium was needlessly torn down and the new facilities were built.
But in general, signage is not good in cities. Name a city (Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Wilkes-Barre are examples I've encountered) and you can probably find poor route signage in them.
Cincinnati is a disaster signage wise, you cant follow any of the routes through that city.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on February 07, 2017, 08:12:50 PM
New York has to be treated like 11 different mini-states because no two regions do things the same
Certainly, but that being said, most regions tend to be quite good with signage. R2 and R9 have issues at times, but their worst is better than the best out of many states.
Except where local municipalities maintain stuff, reassurance markers throughout the state are posted often, concurrencies are well-signed, speed limits are signed at regular intervals, every state-maintained road has tenth-milemarkers and locations are typically signed well.
As for other states, Vermont. Many speed limit drops have signs on both sides of the road and they've done a good job adding the new types of warning signs. VTrans-installed street blades are large and easy to read. There is a unique but statewide standard set of attraction/business signs that makes things easy to find. My
only gripe with their signage is that town/county line signs are not mounted in a fashion that is easy for drivers to see.
On non-divided roads that aren't considered to be dangerous for pedestrians, reference markers are only posted every 1/5 mile, but alternate on each side of the the road (so the directions combined are every 1/10 of a mile). Plus they're not readable to anyone who isn't an engineer or roadgeek (heck, even many in NYSDOT don't know how to read them, especially since they're considered a deprecated system that is only maintained so that old record will still be valid; many things these days is done by milepoint, including anything involving Main Office). I wouldn't really call them tenth mile markers (which are themselves perhaps the least consistent part of NY signage).
R2 signage is getting better but R7 signage is getting worse. I guess they're trading places.
And yes, Vermont has excellent signage.