AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: Mergingtraffic on April 16, 2017, 07:30:03 PM

Title: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: Mergingtraffic on April 16, 2017, 07:30:03 PM
Which states have the best and worst BGS designs and layouts?

Sign type, font, lettering, exit tab styles etc

Best:

I'd say FL and CT.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/580/23205494566_43fd40dafe_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BmAe4U)I-4 END (https://flic.kr/p/BmAe4U) by mergingtraffic (https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/), on Flickr

Highway Gothic font, well laid out and the exit tabs are separate and are properly spaced. I noticed the corners of the exit tabs are proper to the size of the exit tab unlike PA where the corners of the tabs are the same size as the BGS. Here's an example of PA:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/399/19932898501_60348fcb5f_z.jpg)


CT is the same as FL for the most part.  I do miss the borderless exit tabs.  For a year or two CT was doing right/left aligned borderless exit tabs and it looked really slick.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5670/21365689798_e379ddfa1d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/yy1Kd3)Walking the new, unopened to traffic, SB lanes of the new Pearl Harbor Memorial Bridge.  I-95 New Haven, CT.  Note: the lines have not been painted yet but the new signs are up. (https://flic.kr/p/yy1Kd3) by mergingtraffic (https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8660/16865029641_cb3ab2eedf_z.jpg)

WORST:
Although I don't have any pics, but states with Clearview and squeezed fonts.  Exits tabs that are inside the sign or part of it.  GA comes to mind.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: vdeane on April 16, 2017, 07:37:09 PM
Worst I would guess would be the Clearview signs the Thruway erected.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: Scott5114 on April 17, 2017, 03:58:43 AM
Best is easy.

The problem with the worst states is that they're often "worst" because they're incredibly inconsistent from panel to panel. You might get a run of gorgeous, well-thought-out signs and then have a barftastic panel thrown into the mix. Such things aren't designed so much as they happen by accident due to lax controls.

Very rarely can you point to a state that's consistently bad in some systemic way, because that would mean someone created a rule forcing it to be so. (I suppose you could argue that something like Caltrans' "all panels must be the same size" edict could be an example of this, but not everyone seems to feel that way about it.)
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: jakeroot on April 17, 2017, 05:12:26 AM
Best: British Columbia because I love Clearview and up arrows, and I'm PROUD

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FX9k2Hrz.jpg&hash=7c63ac5e3f6d61e1e8f9d437a75092bc0eb36487)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZ3iRplV.jpg&hash=45c74a2e240ca5451bc40f46a82c889542e4c778)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSounfhD.jpg&hash=adeeba7e8811fa2885143e838fb5f087afeb4955)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3AK61Iv.jpg&hash=1b96d11d60a9ac98904ee523a77aec78198e873a)

Worst: (I joke but) British Columbia because they have no quality control...

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqrqB3Os.jpg&hash=160dacd57a194f5412102f29872a6af6a1b30371)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FyTxWv0n.png&hash=fa8b97c40f922d241ba6f1c5b9b6dcca4c83fe30)
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: jbnv on April 17, 2017, 01:13:13 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 16, 2017, 07:30:03 PM
WORST:
Although I don't have any pics, but states with Clearview and squeezed fonts.

Haters gonna hate.

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 17, 2017, 03:58:43 AM
The problem with the worst states is that they're often "worst" because they're incredibly inconsistent from panel to panel. You might get a run of gorgeous, well-thought-out signs and then have a barftastic panel thrown into the mix. Such things aren't designed so much as they happen by accident due to lax controls.

+100. See Louisiana for example. Our BGSs generally aren't bad (even the all-Clearview ones that the haters love to hate on) but they suffer from a host of maladies, especially poor vertical spacing and kerning.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: jbnv on April 17, 2017, 01:14:56 PM
By the way, I'll give my best-of votes to Texas and Florida.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: OracleUsr on April 17, 2017, 11:07:29 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 16, 2017, 07:30:03 PM
Which states have the best and worst BGS designs and layouts?

Sign type, font, lettering, exit tab styles etc

Best:

I'd say FL and CT.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/580/23205494566_43fd40dafe_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BmAe4U)I-4 END (https://flic.kr/p/BmAe4U) by mergingtraffic (https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/), on Flickr

Highway Gothic font, well laid out and the exit tabs are separate and are properly spaced. I noticed the corners of the exit tabs are proper to the size of the exit tab unlike PA where the corners of the tabs are the same size as the BGS. Here's an example of PA:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/399/19932898501_60348fcb5f_z.jpg)


CT is the same as FL for the most part.  I do miss the borderless exit tabs.  For a year or two CT was doing right/left aligned borderless exit tabs and it looked really slick.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5670/21365689798_e379ddfa1d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/yy1Kd3)Walking the new, unopened to traffic, SB lanes of the new Pearl Harbor Memorial Bridge.  I-95 New Haven, CT.  Note: the lines have not been painted yet but the new signs are up. (https://flic.kr/p/yy1Kd3) by mergingtraffic (https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8660/16865029641_cb3ab2eedf_z.jpg)

WORST:
Although I don't have any pics, but states with Clearview and squeezed fonts.  Exits tabs that are inside the sign or part of it.  GA comes to mind.

GA is moving away from the Unisign

Virginia, before they moved away from full Clearview, was one of the worst.  Their thin-tab Clearview style stunk.

Best:  New NC style, new VA style (even with Clearview), new GA style.

Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: kurumi on April 17, 2017, 11:44:46 PM
CT is greatly improved from 25-30 years ago. You rarely saw problems with text alignment and typos; sometimes US/state shields were flipped, and the whole button copy motif of 1980s and 1990s really aged poorly in terms of visibility. Glad to see it go. The newest signs, if not the nation's best, are certainly close enough. I've seen no Clearview and very little APL.

CA is not going to change. I like the historical stuff, but general modern layout... I'm done arguing about it

As to where I've been recently, I really like AZ and TN; close second are MN, HI. Don't care as much for NV (some tiny route markers). "Good enough" but not really memorable are KY, IA, NH, MA. Finally, ME gets a nod for frequent sine salads on I-95; every exit's a party.

Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: lordsutch on April 17, 2017, 11:57:21 PM
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 17, 2017, 11:07:29 PM
GA is moving away from the Unisign

Yep, and they're going to disappear fast because virtually all of them date from the conversion to mileage-based exit numbering and are at their end of life. The ones on GA 400 and Loop 10 might stick around longer, though.

Mississippi generally does a good job with new signs, but there are some leftover all-caps BGSes around the state that still need to be replaced - I think all the ones on interstates are gone, but plenty remain on US and state routes.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 18, 2017, 01:16:05 AM
Not sure if I would call it the best, however, I kind of like Arizona's larger than standard exit tabs that have been in use since about 2003-2004.  This is about the same time that I think they have stopped requiring sign lighting except near freeway to freeway interchanges since I think ADOT started to use Type IX sheeting around that time.  Midway through the Clearview era ADOT started to use Type XI sheeting, which doesn't use lighting period.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: TXtoNJ on April 18, 2017, 11:55:41 AM
TX really depends on local TxDOT office. Some, like Central Texas, are excellent. Others, like Houston, are infuriating. Both NTTA and HCTRA have great signage, too.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: roadman65 on April 18, 2017, 12:54:30 PM
I have to say the Palisades Parkway in NJ is worse with the way US 9W is signed.  Plus the whole organization of things could be desired more overall.  Even NYS has better signs and its all the same bureau that maintains the freeway in both states.

NJ Turnpike used to be the best before the MUTCD stepped in, and even so some of the newer signs I have seen on GSV are really excellent.  However, the former SB Eastern Spur signs for Exit 15E without motorists information was the drawback for them having great signs  all the way which now has full info including the erroneous US 1 & 9 shields on them as its really US 1 & 9 Truck or US 1 & 9 T as NJDOT calls it.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: briantroutman on April 18, 2017, 04:03:46 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 16, 2017, 07:30:03 PM
I noticed the corners of the exit tabs are proper to the size of the exit tab unlike PA where the corners of the tabs are the same size as the BGS. Here's an example of PA:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/399/19932898501_60348fcb5f_z.jpg)

I know it's not how the MUTCD depicts exit panels in their illustrations, but personally, I prefer the consistent corner radius used on many Pennsylvania guide signs' exit tabs.

I understand the inclination to "scale down"  the corner radius to the exit tab, since it's much smaller than the guide sign, but I find the juxtaposition of two different corner radii in the upper right corner of the assembly to look awkward.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: mwb1848 on April 18, 2017, 10:55:18 PM
Worst is New Mexico.

It's all an inconsistent mess. Even their own state highway shields vary dramatically between installations.

They also get points deducted for using a ton of non-BGS's as supplemental signs on freeways.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: OracleUsr on April 18, 2017, 11:19:45 PM
Wisconsin, thumbs down.

"Hey, that yellow LEFT banner is cool.  Let's shove it into existing tabs for fun, to heck with scale"
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: Pink Jazz on April 18, 2017, 11:48:21 PM
Quote from: mwb1848 on April 18, 2017, 10:55:18 PM
Worst is New Mexico.

It's all an inconsistent mess. Even their own state highway shields vary dramatically between installations.

They also get points deducted for using a ton of non-BGS's as supplemental signs on freeways.


I know that usually on BGS NMDOT usually does not include the red Zia symbol on the shields (with 3di BGS shields usually being elliptical), although I have seen a few exceptions.

Also, NMDOT District 5 (Santa Fe) has used Clearview for some BGS; they are the only NMDOT district that has used Clearview (although the cities of Rio Rancho and Los Alamos have experimented with Clearview on a few street blades).
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: DaBigE on April 19, 2017, 09:11:48 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 18, 2017, 11:19:45 PM
Wisconsin, thumbs down.

"Hey, that yellow LEFT banner is cool.  Let's shove it into existing tabs for fun, to heck with scale"

Huh? Could you provide an example?
The ones around the Madison-area (https://goo.gl/maps/khRf7Pujp4u) seem to be to-scale. If you switch to the right lane image (https://goo.gl/maps/VxGC5iTmghA2), you can see it's definitely not the original tab.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: PHLBOS on April 19, 2017, 11:23:45 AM
Quote from: briantroutman on April 18, 2017, 04:03:46 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 16, 2017, 07:30:03 PM
I noticed the corners of the exit tabs are proper to the size of the exit tab unlike PA where the corners of the tabs are the same size as the BGS. Here's an example of PA:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/399/19932898501_60348fcb5f_z.jpg)

I know it's not how the MUTCD depicts exit panels in their illustrations, but personally, I prefer the consistent corner radius used on many Pennsylvania guide signs' exit tabs.

I understand the inclination to "scale down"  the corner radius to the exit tab, since it's much smaller than the guide sign, but I find the juxtaposition of two different corner radii in the upper right corner of the assembly to look awkward.
One thing to keep in mind that the above-example has a much newer (by at least 25-30 years), retrofitted exit tab.  The original tab (that read EXIT 33) featured only rounded borders on the top of the tab and no divider line underneath; depicted by the break in the top border of the main panel.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: Mergingtraffic on April 20, 2017, 03:18:53 PM
How was GA allowed to get away with posting the squeezed fonted BGS signs in the first place?
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: jbnv on April 20, 2017, 05:14:14 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 20, 2017, 03:18:53 PM
How was GA allowed to get away with posting the squeezed fonted BGS signs in the first place?

They must have gotten the same penalty Louisiana got for putting Clearview numerals in shields.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: plain on April 20, 2017, 05:22:55 PM
I always liked Maryland's because they're usually large and very readable. As far as the worst, I've seen some poor BGS's in many states myself but I'm just gonna go by the examples I've seen on AARoads and say Oklahoma.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: OracleUsr on April 20, 2017, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on April 19, 2017, 09:11:48 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 18, 2017, 11:19:45 PM
Wisconsin, thumbs down.

"Hey, that yellow LEFT banner is cool.  Let's shove it into existing tabs for fun, to heck with scale"

Huh? Could you provide an example?
The ones around the Madison-area (https://goo.gl/maps/khRf7Pujp4u) seem to be to-scale. If you switch to the right lane image (https://goo.gl/maps/VxGC5iTmghA2), you can see it's definitely not the original tab.

http://www.crosscountryroads.com/images/wisconsin/i894eb/DSC04715.JPG

This is one...okay, it just LOOKS like that's what they did.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: plain on April 20, 2017, 05:41:00 PM
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 20, 2017, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on April 19, 2017, 09:11:48 AM
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 18, 2017, 11:19:45 PM
Wisconsin, thumbs down.

"Hey, that yellow LEFT banner is cool.  Let's shove it into existing tabs for fun, to heck with scale"

Huh? Could you provide an example?
The ones around the Madison-area (https://goo.gl/maps/khRf7Pujp4u) seem to be to-scale. If you switch to the right lane image (https://goo.gl/maps/VxGC5iTmghA2), you can see it's definitely not the original tab.

http://www.crosscountryroads.com/images/wisconsin/i894eb/DSC04715.JPG

This is one...okay, it just LOOKS like that's what they did.

That airport symbol on the BGS looks hideous. They could've done much better than that
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: machias on April 20, 2017, 10:53:14 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 20, 2017, 03:18:53 PM
How was GA allowed to get away with posting the squeezed fonted BGS signs in the first place?

They weren't "squeezed fonts", it was Series D modified with a few extra enhancements, a squared off "D", and lowercase i and j without the dots (some of the time). Personally, I *loved* Georgia's BGS design during this era - very easy to read, the larger letters lent to improved visibility and the signs were laid out well for the most part. I'm sad to see them go.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: Scott5114 on April 21, 2017, 05:14:18 AM
Best is easy for me. It's Kansas DOT. They may not have flashy or particularly cool signage, but it is clear, well-formatted, and easy to read, each panel following the same design cues to make a remarkably consistent experience, mile after mile.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFsPsufY.jpg&hash=1ff8d042db5c5a9e851fa5c24a9337365881da10)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmUKptPW.jpg&hash=8a9d449ececd2b9b25b4b02547e5f471ba7f01c1)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1nDhNG9.jpg&hash=754070ee1ba72ca5d00d03ab6f61a1b0cbf6d1f7)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWvwQpd4.jpg&hash=1a66872f02cac6f5fea79f2bb4dfcf483c265286)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIfI59aW.jpg&hash=df487d320c0cdf423adf3bba04aca26eb229fd5d)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6Uk2T30.jpg&hash=299e4ad6d90b83037808a6ad13c04bff4737b1c4)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbDHRBQ7.jpg&hash=871e664031462c6e8e847f1ac2f507226e776f9c)
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: jbnv on April 21, 2017, 01:09:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2017, 11:29:47 AM
Then there's the matter of being able to recognize a state's outline for AL & AR & FL & GA & OH & OK (!) & SD.  I suspect a lot of drivers wouldn't be able to identify half of those states by outline.

Louisiana wins here. Drivers get three cues: the state shape, the state abbreviation, and the potholes in the road.  :spin:
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: vdeane on April 21, 2017, 01:50:21 PM
I think ND and SD are an interesting case.  Both states now use their state outline, but they're both rectangle states.  Sure, SD's shield has a green background, but that won't do squat on a guide sign, unless ND plans to be the next NJ.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2017, 03:02:54 PM
Enough state shield nonsense.  Let's get back to BGSes.

I think Missouri is up there with Kansas as far as good BGSes go.

And Oklahoma is schlock.
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: plain on April 22, 2017, 10:47:12 AM
^ that GIF tho  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Title: Re: States with the best and worst BGS designs
Post by: Eth on April 22, 2017, 01:14:47 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on April 17, 2017, 11:57:21 PM
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 17, 2017, 11:07:29 PM
GA is moving away from the Unisign

Yep, and they're going to disappear fast because virtually all of them date from the conversion to mileage-based exit numbering and are at their end of life. The ones on GA 400 and Loop 10 might stick around longer, though.

Some of them on 400, especially near I-285, have already been replaced. Don't know about Athens, though those signs are probably newer since they renumbered those exits at a later date (switched to mileage-based, and I believe also changed the progression from clockwise to counterclockwise).

(For those not familiar with the GA exit renumbering, that was done back in 1999-2000, so the signs referred to here are approaching 20 years old.)

--

To throw my opinion into the ring, NC and FL are among the best, and I think GA's new ones are also nice when done properly (big caveat there). Meanwhile, VA and MD were fairly bad around the time I lived there, which was when they were just starting to use Clearview. (Not because it was Clearview, but because it was badly-done Clearview.)