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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Bryant5493 on November 25, 2009, 02:23:31 PM

Title: PC or Mac?
Post by: Bryant5493 on November 25, 2009, 02:23:31 PM
I do produce a lot of YouTube videos. I currently have an Acer with a Windows Vista OS. It (Vista) freezes a lot when I'm in the process of producing a video and/or when I close Windows Movie Maker. I've tried to free up space, but it still freezes up from time-to-time.

So, will a Mac make a difference? I'm currently doing some research and, if I do get one, it'll be awhile from now. So, what about Final Cut Pro? Final Cut Express?


Be well,

Bryant
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: hbelkins on November 25, 2009, 02:29:28 PM
The Mac will come standard with iMovie. Depending on the video camera you use, iMovie may be able to import the footage directly to allow you to work with it.

I am currently using a Mac with iMovie; it works perfectly with my Panasonic SDS-S7 camera. I have never tried Windows Movie Maker with my Windows computers.

iMovie may be all you need, and it comes free with the Mac. Jim Georges (freewayjim) is using Final Cut but so far I haven't made that move yet.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Bryant5493 on November 25, 2009, 02:40:01 PM
Yeah, I have a Vivitar DVR 840XHD camera and a Vivitar DVR 850W camera. Windows Movie Maker puts black bars on the sides, and I want to not have those in my vids. With Final Cut -- what Jim uses -- those black bars aren't there.

Thanks for the comment.


Be well,

Bryant
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: simguy228 on November 25, 2009, 03:44:03 PM
Windows.... My brothers laptop is running XP with Windows Media Player 12 and Windows Movie Maker. I'm running Windows Vista SP2 (My laptop is in the shop) And when it comes out of the shop, I'm upgrading to Windows 7
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Alps on November 25, 2009, 06:03:52 PM
Windows XP works just fine for movies.  But enough about XP vs. Vista.  A few years ago I was in a group using a Mac for a video project.  I don't remember which software was used, but it came out quite well (at least on the production end).  I don't think you should worry either way.  But GET WINDOWS 7 NOW!
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: agentsteel53 on November 25, 2009, 06:27:10 PM
I just tried 7 and it works fine but the interface takes a lot of time getting used to.  Very Office07ish.

that said, I still use the old gray Windows NT4 skin on my XP.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Scott5114 on November 26, 2009, 12:07:36 PM
I just switched from Fedora 11 x86_64 to Ubuntu 9.10 x86_64. Ubuntu is a lot faster. (I think there was some flaw in Fedora's implementation of 64-bit because the x86_64 version was much slower than the plain x86 one.)
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: algorerhythms on November 26, 2009, 02:18:42 PM
The computer I use most often is a Mac that runs Windows 7. Basically, I had the choice of paying $90 to upgrade from MacOS 10.4 to 10.6, or installing Windows 7 for free (legally). Combined with the fact that I have to use a couple Windows-only pieces of software for work, it turned out to be an easy choice.

My other computer is an old Gateway computer that runs Ubuntu 8.04. I use it primarily for MythTV.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: froggie on November 27, 2009, 10:02:15 AM
Currently running XP on both systems.  Will likely get an iMac for my next laptop, especally since a co-worker has found software (Parallels) that might allow me to run ArcGIS on a Mac...
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Hellfighter on November 27, 2009, 11:07:03 AM
Windows 7 FTW!
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on November 27, 2009, 11:33:56 AM
PC - Macs suck - especially cause user interface is bad
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: agentsteel53 on November 27, 2009, 12:05:26 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek_Adam on November 27, 2009, 11:33:56 AM
PC - Macs suck - especially cause user interface is bad

and what, pray tell, has a good user interface?  A PDP-9?
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on November 27, 2009, 12:07:38 PM
Clarification needed: I meant I like PCs, because Macs interface suck
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: froggie on November 27, 2009, 05:14:38 PM
Why do you think Mac interfaces suck?

The few times I've tried Meaghan's laptop, it was easier to work than the standard Windows XP/Vista interface...
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: yanksfan6129 on November 27, 2009, 05:54:06 PM
As a Mac user myself, I wouldn't give it up for anything at this point. I've had it for years now and I still don't feel that it's obsolete.

FYI, the user interface on macs is not bad. I don't know why anyone would have that idea.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on November 27, 2009, 06:08:24 PM
Vista was a failure. XP is what i use

I hate the way Macs work, too many problems
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: hbelkins on November 27, 2009, 11:30:41 PM
Quote from: froggie on November 27, 2009, 10:02:15 AM
Currently running XP on both systems.  Will likely get an iMac for my next laptop, especally since a co-worker has found software (Parallels) that might allow me to run ArcGIS on a Mac...


Sun Virtual Box, which I haven't tried, and VMWare Fusion, which I have tried and am not crazy about, will also work on the Mac. Or you could use Boot Camp and create a partition on your hard drive and install Windows on it and take advantage of the new Macs' Intel processors.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: vdeane on November 28, 2009, 11:36:46 AM
I have a hard time finding things on a mac.  For example, let's say that you need to restore some items from the trash but don't know where they originally were (but must go back to the same location because of the way FinalCut works and you want the footage so you can export it to edit it with Adobe Premier on a Windows machine).  On Windows, this is easy: restore all.  On a mac, it can't be done.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Scott5114 on November 28, 2009, 06:07:56 PM
At first, I was going to say that "I can't find/don't know how to do x action" is not a legitimate reason to hate an OS...but then I looked it up, and it turns out you're right; there is no way to simply restore a file from the Trash in OS X. Take a look at this (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=381965). It's sickening...OS X is legitimately lacking a feature and the Apple fanboys are actually defending it by saying "I don't believe it's a feature, it's more like a parachute for careless users. I chucked my windows boxes for very good reasons, the last thing I want is for OSX to end up like Vista or Windows 7."

In Linux someone would probably say "Hmm, that sounds like it could be useful. I'll write a patch for that/Why don't you put in a feature request?" Of course it probably helps that in Linux the people doing the kernel are different from the desktop people who are different from the user software people.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Bryant5493 on November 28, 2009, 06:16:09 PM
My mom has Windows 7 on her laptop. When we got her laptop, it was just after Windows 7 came out. So, her anti-virus protection wouldn't work, because it wasn't compatible with the new Windows 7 OS. Anyway, we called the anti-virus people, and they got it function properly. The only thing about her laptop is that it doesn't have Movie Maker. She doesn't use it, but I use her laptop from time-to-time.

So, what new functions does Windows Movie Maker on Windows 7 have that Movie Maker on Windows Vista doesn't?


Be well,

Bryant
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: vdeane on November 28, 2009, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 28, 2009, 06:07:56 PM
At first, I was going to say that "I can't find/don't know how to do x action" is not a legitimate reason to hate an OS...
I don't hate it, but I don't believe it's the ease of use god that many people claim it is.  Like any software, it's easy once you know how.

As far as Windows 7 not having Movie Maker, a bunch of apps were removed so that it wouldn't be as bloated and so those apps could be updated more frequently than Windows.  You can download it as part of Windows Live.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: yanksfan6129 on November 28, 2009, 08:53:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek_Adam on November 27, 2009, 06:08:24 PM
Vista was a failure. XP is what i use

I hate the way Macs work, too many problems

OK. what sort of problems? Because I've owned PC's and Macs, and I've always had less problems on Macs. Have you ever owned a mac?
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: mightyace on December 02, 2009, 04:06:22 PM
I've always owned PCs for one simple reason, Macs are too freakin' expensive.  (or I'm too cheap, LOL)

If I could easily install OS/X on my PCs, I'd do it in a minute!  (Though, I would run VMware or something similar so that I could still run Windows XP or 7!)
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Hellfighter on December 04, 2009, 11:28:57 AM
BTW, this wat you can do on a PC, and not on a Mac...

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvalid.canardpc.com%2Fcache%2Fscreenshot%2F863052.png&hash=c31ad8576693eec696e11076fd7c6c233ab014cb)
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Truvelo on December 04, 2009, 11:37:11 AM
I also have that app.

Edit - Hellfighter, have you overclocked yours?

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedcam.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk%2Fcpuid.gif&hash=e9580798c3e39e39e0ef6d8f471ee0a1ea0d4f93)
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Hellfighter on December 04, 2009, 07:16:08 PM
Quote from: Truvelo on December 04, 2009, 11:37:11 AM
Hellfighter, have you overclocked yours?


Yes I have, I have my trusty Q6600 riding on a solid Gigabyte P45 board, and I keep pushing her further!

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvalid.canardpc.com%2Fcache%2Fscreenshot%2F864659.png&hash=b04e4e2be3e595302f73277480897b78e175770b)
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Marc on April 11, 2010, 03:47:52 AM
Quote from: Hellfighter on December 04, 2009, 11:28:57 AM
BTW, this wat you can do on a PC, and not on a Mac...

Actually, I have heard of people overclocking Macs. At least the older PowerPC-based systems (which I prefer to the Intels).

I haven't owned a PC since the days of Windows 95, so it's been a long time since I've had a PC, though I still use them from time to time. The first Mac I ever bought, an iMac (Summer 2000), is going on ten years old and is still kicking. It has never been in the shop for anything at all. That has been my most solid computer, ever. I have owned many more Macs through the years and just bought another one not two weeks ago, a quad-core 'Nahalem' Mac Pro.

All that aside, if you have any questions, Bryant, please feel free to ask. I've been a Mac owner for ten years and have been using them since the mid 90s. As others have said, every Mac comes with the iLife suite (iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand and iWeb). Those apps pretty much do what the name says. iMovie (though I prefer the older versions), is a great application with some very powerful editing tools such as green screen, picture in picture, and auto stabilization. To get those features in the past, you had to upgrade to Final Cut Express. Having said that, I actually think Final Cut is easier to use. As I mentioned before, I prefer the older iMovie. That's mainly because they totally re-did iMovie in 2007 and really made it harder to use IMO. A lot of people like it better, but the lack of a true timeline in the newer iMovie really throws me off and I find myself using Final Cut more so than I did before. Though, iMovie has YouTube uploading automatically built in which is really sweet for your vids. No need to render and export and upload via your web browser. You just upload it directly to YouTube from iMovie. That's the kind of simplicity you get with a Mac. Also, since most of the software is made by Apple, once you learn how to use one application, the others will come fairly naturally to you. Apple keeps things consistent, which really cuts down on confusion.

I always tell people that Apple's approach to business is much better for the average Joe. Most people don't like having many choices, companies to deal with, and poor customer service. One of the best things about owning Apple products is knowing that if I have a problem, not only do I know there's only one possible company who's at fault, but I also know that if I need to give them a call, I'm going to be talking to someone in Austin, TX, not India.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: J N Winkler on April 11, 2010, 08:39:45 AM
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on November 27, 2009, 05:54:06 PMFYI, the user interface on macs is not bad. I don't know why anyone would have that idea.

PCs versus Macs is fundamentally a religious discussion.  But, from my perspective as a longtime PC user, these are the problems I see with the Mac interface:

*  One-button mouse = no easy or intuitive way to get context menus, use thumbwheel zoom, etc.

*  Historically poor support for keyboard shortcuts; although most Mac applications I have used recently (including the Mac version of Firefox) now have keyboard shortcuts, it is sometimes difficult to find them through a quick Web search because some sites will quote open-apple shortcuts while others will quote Ctrl shortcuts, and on some Macs I have found that one kind of shortcut will work while the other won't.  Shortcuts are also poorly standardized across applications of the same type.  If I sit down in front of a PC, I know that Alt + D will select whatever is in the URL bar in practically all browsers, including Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Opera.  If I sit down in front of a Mac, I don't know whether Ctrl + L will work in, say, Internet Explorer or Safari (I know it will work in Firefox).

*  No function keys--I depend heavily on F5 for page refresh, F2 to change file and folder names, etc.

*  A very limited selection of page navigation keys with poorly supported navigation functionality--I know what to expect with Home, End, PageUp, PageDn, etc. in all the Windows applications I use, but I have no such confidence with Macs.

Basically I can cope with Macs for up to five minutes at a time for simple jobs like using a Web browser to check my email, but anything more complicated usually has me making frustrated noises through clenched teeth.

From my perspective, the biggest advantage Macs have over PCs is their native support for Unix shell scripts.  The NT batch language is very powerful these days but there is still a lot more that can be done with Unix commands.  On the other hand, I have no incentive to switch from PC to Mac because, with the exception of Web browsers and Acrobat, the major software packages I use are not available in Mac versions.

Mac proselytizers have suggested that I could get a Windows emulator or set up a dual-boot configuration, but I take the view that if I am going to do either of those things, I might as well save money and get a PC of comparable hardware specification instead.  I supply my own input devices and for me configuration rather than form factor is the key thing, so the external appearance of Apple products has no effect on me.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: The Premier on April 11, 2010, 01:19:46 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek_Adam on November 27, 2009, 06:08:24 PM
Vista was a failure. XP is what i use

Agreed. Microsoft should not have gotten Vista done. It had a lot of problems. Its a good thing that Windows 7 was done properly than Vista. But I have XP on my laptop, which is much better than Vista.

But don't rule against the Mac. If Apple can lower the cost of their Macs, I could have bought them. The Macs are pretty good too, if you know what you are doing.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Marc on April 11, 2010, 07:24:34 PM
Clearly, you have obviously been a longtime PC user because none of what you said is remotely true. Having actually owned both systems in the past, here's what I can tell you.

Quote from: J N Winkler on April 11, 2010, 08:39:45 AM
One-button mouse = no easy or intuitive way to get context menus, use thumbwheel zoom, etc.
Yes, in the past Macs have had single-button mice, but it's been nearly five years since Apple has shipped a single-button mouse. Apple has had two mice now (the Mighty Mouse, and now the Magic Mouse) that have multiple button functionality. The buttons are programmable to do pretty much whatever you want. Of course left click, right click, and scrolling, but also application launching. I personally don't care too much for the new Magic Mouse, though an interesting concept, I think the design is poor. I stick with Apple's wired Mighty Mouse (now called the Apple Mouse). Even before Apple made their own multi-button mouse, there was always support for it in the OS. Even back in OS 9, you could simply plug in a basic USB mouse and without installing any drivers, it would work on the spot. Left click, right click, scrolling, whatever the mouse could do. Even with a single button mouse, you can still access contextual menus by holding down Control and clicking. On the Apple laptops made since 2005, you use two fingers and click to "right click" (or Control+click). You also can scroll 360° by using two fingers as well on the trackpads. On Apple's "Late 2008" models and on, there are even three and four finger gestures for various things (navigating back/forward through webpage history, showing all open windows/desktop, etc.).

QuoteHistorically poor support for keyboard shortcuts; although most Mac applications I have used recently (including the Mac version of Firefox) now have keyboard shortcuts, it is sometimes difficult to find them through a quick Web search because some sites will quote open-apple shortcuts while others will quote Ctrl shortcuts, and on some Macs I have found that one kind of shortcut will work while the other won't.  Shortcuts are also poorly standardized across applications of the same type.  If I sit down in front of a PC, I know that Alt + D will select whatever is in the URL bar in practically all browsers, including Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Opera.  If I sit down in front of a Mac, I don't know whether Ctrl + L will work in, say, Internet Explorer or Safari (I know it will work in Firefox).
Couldn't be further from the truth. Macs have far better support for keyboard commands, bar none. Here's a link to a page on Apple's site that shows the key commands (note that these are just for Apple's apps, so there are more in third party apps)
http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1343 (http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1343)

The fundamental difference is that on a Mac you use the Command key rather than Ctrl for shortcuts. Most of the time, you simply press Command in place on Ctrl and it'll work. I'm not a fan of Ctrl. You basically have to be a contortionist to use it because it's placed on the extreme exterior of the keyboard. I love the fact that Command is located on either side of the space bar, much better location than Ctrl.

BTW, I just checked and Command+L selects all in the Address Bar in Safari.

QuoteNo function keys--I depend heavily on F5 for page refresh, F2 to change file and folder names, etc.
Then what are these "F" keys at the top of my keyboard for then? I have 16 of them as a matter of fact and the newer keyboards have 19 I think. They are always programmable by the Keyboard preference pane inside System Preferences.

QuoteA very limited selection of page navigation keys with poorly supported navigation functionality--I know what to expect with Home, End, PageUp, PageDn, etc. in all the Windows applications I use, but I have no such confidence with Macs.
Again, those are all present on my Apple Keyboard. On the newer keyboards, those keys aren't labeled, but you press Fn+[arrow], and it'll do it for you.

I have no problem with people using whatever they prefer to use, but I do have a problem with people not liking a certain side because of false reasons. The single-button mouse is the oldest excuse in the book. That was years ago now. Apple is not living in the stone ages, people.

I do agree with cost, however. Back in the day, they could justify higher prices because they were so far ahead in terms of their hardware, but these days, especially now that Apple is using Intel, they are getting to the point to where they need to do some price cutting. Though, in their defense, their business model seems to be working for them, over half of the Macs they sell are to first-time users, so I dunno. They still have some things working for them in terms of price (much cheaper software, most made out of aluminum, not plastic, etc). So, up front they are more expensive, but in the long run, maybe it balances out, who knows.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Marc on April 11, 2010, 09:43:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 28, 2009, 06:07:56 PM
...it turns out you're right; there is no way to simply restore a file from the Trash in OS X.
I forgot to mention this in my previous post. I'm not sure if this is new to Snow Leopard or not as I have never used or needed this functionality, but there is a "Put Back" option if you right-click the file in the Trash. Good to know it's there just in case I do need it some day.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi766.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx303%2FMacAddict2000%2FScreenshot2010-04-11at83809PM.png&hash=00d6ec004b2d156a8c8353c8a5854399efcfce70)
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: vdeane on April 12, 2010, 08:36:41 AM
It might be.  The system I discovered that on was running Panther.
Title: Re: PC or Mac?
Post by: Marc on April 12, 2010, 10:28:32 AM
Yeah, that seems like a Snow Leopard-esque feature.