Which cities have the most convenient and accessible freeway network, such that you are never to far from a freeway, and congestion is not out of control?
Oklahoma City has a fairly good setup. The bulk of the city are served by freeways, with expressways bringing in traffic from outlying areas.
St Louis has a good setup in my opinion. You got I-270 that takes you to the suburbs surrounding St Louis, you got I-44, I-70, I-55, and I-64 leading you to the downtown area, and you have I-255 to bypass the metropolitan area.
The Twin Cities, with their robust and comprehensive freeway network, make Chicagoland look like a festering pile of smoldering garbage that reeks of onion breath. Which it is.
Detroit should get a nod here, since MDOT is able to get away with shutting down an entire freeway for long-term construction with minor repercussions.
Quote from: pianocello on May 12, 2017, 12:40:33 PM
Detroit should get a nod here, since MDOT is able to get away with shutting down an entire freeway for long-term construction with minor repercussions.
That's not their freeway setup; it's their arterial setup.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 12, 2017, 09:42:45 AM
The Twin Cities, with their robust and comprehensive freeway network, make Chicagoland look like a festering pile of smoldering garbage that reeks of onion breath. Which it is.
+1 for the Twin Cities.
Although I have limited experience, I also nominate San Antonio.
Of all the West Coast major metro areas, San Diego has, IMO, the most effective freeway network; they've been able to maintain a basic "grid pattern" with E-W routings (54,94,8,52) and connect them N-S with the two "follow the coastline trajectory" routes of I-5 and I-805, augmented by 15, 163, and 125 on a more direct N-S basis. Given the regional topography, the system seems to function as well as can be expected given the exponential growth of the region, particularly to the north along the I-15 corridor. Once north of San Diego proper, the scheme breaks down somewhat, with CA 56 serving more as a connector than a cross-regional arterial, and CA 78 being regularly overwhelmed -- generally due to fiscal shortfalls truncating projects while growth seems to continue unabated.
Some cities have good freeway networks but they are limited in the number of lanes.
Chicago looks reaaly decent on the map. But not enough lanes. I eas there last weekend and i was surprised how the Eisenhower was backed up all day Saturday and Sunday
LGMS428
Twin Cities.
Chicago has the right idea with routing, but lacks capacity and a functional DOT (excluding the Tollway)
Chicago has so much potential... It's too bad there isn't a freeway that cuts from the west suburbs diagonally through the suburbs towards the southeast. It would cut the corner off the triangle and fix everything.
Phoenix is pretty good with all the loop beltways and major downtown freeways. Really the only omission would have been the "Camelback Freeway" which on paper would have allowed more direct east/west connections between I-10 and the Loop 101. Really traffic in Phoenix always tends to constantly flow even on the worst days for congestion. The freeway network is expanding also with the 303 and 24 along with the potential I-11 in addition to AZ 30 bring.
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on May 12, 2017, 08:45:48 AM
St Louis has a good setup in my opinion. You got I-270 that takes you to the suburbs surrounding St Louis, you got I-44, I-70, I-55, and I-64 leading you to the downtown area, and you have I-255 to bypass the metropolitan area.
Strongly disagree with St. Louis:
* Too many missing movements in the downtown region, particularly to and from US 40
* I-170 needed to make it down to at least I-44, preferably I-55. A completed I-170 down to I-55 would have made some of the missing movements to/from US 40 near downtown easier to accept
* Trying to cram too many routes over the PSB and the lack of redundancy for the PSB. The new bridge for I-70 doesn't help traffic from I-44, I-55, and US 40 due to the missing ramps at the western end and the lack of certain ramps at the west end of the PSB.
* The lack of a good north-south route north of downtown - either the MO 367 freeway should have made it down to I-70, or a freeway facility should have been built along IL 3 south of I-270, possibly with a newer, freeway standard McKinley Bridge.
* The lack of capacity on US 40 between Skinker and at least Big Bend - there can be a good slowdown due to the lane drop WB at Skinker outside of the peak hours.
* The lack of capacity on US 40 between I-70 and Route K in St. Charles County
* The lack of a full loop/outer belt type freeway on the Missouri side west of I-270
* Lately there's also a case to be made that I-44 should have been built farther north between I-270 and Eureka away from the Meramec River
* The freeway once proposed along IL 3 between I-255 and the PSB Complex should have been completed (one of the more tolerable issues, but given the talk lately of having to do a railroad bypass for IL 3 in the Sauget . . .)
SoCal circa 1975 IMO. Lots of lanes, plenty of relatively clear alternate routes, concrete in great condition, most of the major freeways completed, Botts Dots and button copy...it has all been downhill since then!
Rick
I've always liked Nashville, TN's network, nearly complete and comprehensive. My only criticisms are a lack of lanes in the downtown loop and the short non-freeway gap between US 31E (Ellington Parkway) and I-24. I have similar feelings regarding Knoxville, TN's network.
Elsewhere, the Houston and the DFW Metroplex are both right up there.
Mike
A shoutout to Lansing, MI - both on the freeway and arterial standpoint. I may have a biased opinion. ;-)
Quote from: jwolfer on May 12, 2017, 07:59:34 PM
Some cities have good freeway networks but they are limited in the number of lanes.
Chicago looks reaaly decent on the map. But not enough lanes. I eas there last weekend and i was surprised how the Eisenhower was backed up all day Saturday and Sunday
Chicagoland does not have enough of a network given the number of square miles the metro covers. Perhaps if many of the once-proposed routes were built such as the Crosstown, Fox Valley, North Avenue, Southwest Suburban Expressways, and an east-west route to the north of I-90
I'm going to second the nominations for Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston.
Quote from: jwolfer on May 12, 2017, 07:59:34 PM
Some cities have good freeway networks but they are limited in the number of lanes.
Chicago looks reaaly decent on the map. But not enough lanes. I eas there last weekend and i was surprised how the Eisenhower was backed up all day Saturday and Sunday
The Ike is routinely a parking lot. As is the Kennedy. Be glad you weren't there at rush hour. Be very glad you weren't there at rush hour.
I think Houston is laid out nicely.
Hub and spokes, and soon to be 3 beltways once the Grand Parkway is complete.
3 beltways. That may hold the record?
Quote from: 1 on May 12, 2017, 01:05:11 PM
Quote from: pianocello on May 12, 2017, 12:40:33 PM
Detroit should get a nod here, since MDOT is able to get away with shutting down an entire freeway for long-term construction with minor repercussions.
That's not their freeway setup; it's their arterial setup.
And economic decline.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 12, 2017, 08:40:24 PM
Chicago has so much potential... It's too bad there isn't a freeway that cuts from the west suburbs diagonally through the suburbs towards the southeast. It would cut the corner off the triangle and fix everything.
Like...a hypotenuse...?
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 13, 2017, 05:36:37 AM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 12, 2017, 08:40:24 PM
Chicago has so much potential... It's too bad there isn't a freeway that cuts from the west suburbs diagonally through the suburbs towards the southeast. It would cut the corner off the triangle and fix everything.
Like...a hypotenuse...?
That'd make things worse :awesomeface:
Quote from: ET21 on May 13, 2017, 09:38:16 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 13, 2017, 05:36:37 AM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 12, 2017, 08:40:24 PM
Chicago has so much potential... It's too bad there isn't a freeway that cuts from the west suburbs diagonally through the suburbs towards the southeast. It would cut the corner off the triangle and fix everything.
Like...a hypotenuse...?
That'd make things worse :awesomeface:
It would make things slightly better for traffic. The reasons why it's being opposed are for cost reasons and destroying everything in its ROW (which far outweigh the benefits), not for traffic reasons.
Definitely right here in the Richmond metro. Excellent network, plus freeway access into downtown from several directions (VERY controversial routings inside city limits though... Richmond didn't have the level of Freeway Revolts that Boston, Baltimore and DC had)
Quote from: pianocello on May 12, 2017, 12:40:33 PM
Detroit should get a nod here, since MDOT is able to get away with shutting down an entire freeway for long-term construction with minor repercussions.
Would have been better if they'd been able to complete what was planned. With the Davison Freeway connected to the Jeffries on the west, and to the Mound Freeway on the east. Then Mound Freeway connected to the VanDyke Freeway on the north.
It wouldn't hurt anything if M-59 was a freeway all the way from I-94 through Pontiac and Waterford.
Kansas City has a nice set up with the exception of I-49 not making it inside the 435 loop. Of course that will never get done due to the current community opposition even thought the ROW is there in the middle of current US 71.
For a city of its size, I would day Wichita has a good system.
Quote from: roadman65 on May 14, 2017, 10:03:50 PM
Kansas City has a nice set up with the exception of I-49 not making it inside the 435 loop. Of course that will never get done due to the current community opposition even thought the ROW is there in the middle of current US 71.
There are also a couple of ghost interchanges on I-70 on the KCMO's east side, one looks like it was for a never-built freeway to go towards the northern part of Independence and the other to tie into MO 350/US 50 (Blue Parkway) to/through Raytown.
Mike
they should make i-90 have it's own route through chicago
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 15, 2017, 10:23:51 AM
they should make i-90 have it's own route through chicago
You mean like what dzlabe proposed a hypotenuse? :D
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 12, 2017, 04:27:42 AM
Oklahoma City has a fairly good setup. The bulk of the city are served by freeways, with expressways bringing in traffic from outlying areas.
if you can get past all the potholes
Quote from: ET21 on May 12, 2017, 08:27:09 PM
Twin Cities.
They are getting better but they always underbuild. Not enough lanes, and too many backed up expressways that should be freeways. I-335 never built too.
Quote from: texaskdog on May 15, 2017, 11:06:43 AM
Quote from: ET21 on May 12, 2017, 08:27:09 PM
Twin Cities.
They are getting better but they always underbuild. Not enough lanes, and too many backed up expressways that should be freeways. I-335 never built too.
Are you expecting MSP to have Texas-style freeways with 12 lanes and 4-level stacks at every major interchange?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 15, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 15, 2017, 11:06:43 AM
Quote from: ET21 on May 12, 2017, 08:27:09 PM
Twin Cities.
They are getting better but they always underbuild. Not enough lanes, and too many backed up expressways that should be freeways. I-335 never built too.
Are you expecting MSP to have Texas-style freeways with 12 lanes and 4-level stacks at every major interchange?
LOL Traffic is worse here in Austin. We have no East-West freeways even. We're leaving Austin just to get away from the mess.
But I do love my stacks.
Disney World (Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista, FL).
Multiple points of ingress and egress, clear signage, great interconnection with public roadways.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on May 15, 2017, 10:55:12 PM
Disney World (Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista, FL).
Multiple points of ingress and egress, clear signage, great interconnection with public roadways.
Yeah and they all cause traffic to backup on I-4. Everyone mainly uses I-4 since it is the only true "freeway" in the area with all the other limited access roads being tolled. This also means surface roads in Orlando like US 17/92/441 on OBT, FL 436 on Semoran, and FL 50 on Colonial see a ton of traffic that would otherwise use a "free" limited access road.
I like the freeway system in my current home, Seattle, even without those that were cancelled.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 16, 2017, 05:35:21 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on May 15, 2017, 10:55:12 PM
Disney World (Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista, FL).
Multiple points of ingress and egress, clear signage, great interconnection with public roadways.
Yeah and they all cause traffic to backup on I-4. Everyone mainly uses I-4 since it is the only true "freeway" in the area with all the other limited access roads being tolled. This also means surface roads in Orlando like US 17/92/441 on OBT, FL 436 on Semoran, and FL 50 on Colonial see a ton of traffic that would otherwise use a "free" limited access road.
No its the GPS that puts people on I-4 and if it told them to drive the toll road they would. I work the Beachline West Plaza and I get many people bitch and moan that they have no money because they "Did not know its a toll road" despite the signage at the ramps entering the freeway.
The majority of Disney visitors stay on International Drive so I-4 is the only main connector between the two areas. So its the only way.
What cities outside of the countries of U.S., Canada, Japan, Australia, China, and Western Europe have the best freeway systems or ones that are closest to resembling American cities?
The contenders I know of would be Santiago(Chile), Buenos Aires, and Dubai. Keep in mind, I've only skimmed some of these cities on Google Maps and have never visited them. So those are mainly guesses. Last time I looked on Google Maps, Dubai's system was underwhelming to say the least.
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that Seoul, Moscow, and Mumbai have somewhat decent set-ups.
Having been to Moscow, it absolutely does not.
Quote from: Rothman on May 17, 2017, 07:47:50 PM
Having been to Moscow, it absolutely does not.
Do they even have good expressways?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 17, 2017, 07:46:57 PM
What cities outside of the countries of U.S., Canada, Japan, Australia, China, and Western Europe have the best freeway systems or ones that are closest to resembling American cities?
The contenders I know of would be Santiago(Chile), Buenos Aires, and Dubai. Keep in mind, I've only skimmed some of these cities on Google Maps and have never visited them. So those are mainly guesses. Last time I looked on Google Maps, Dubai's system was underwhelming to say the least.
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that Seoul, Moscow, and Mumbai have somewhat decent set-ups.
Seoul proper has a pretty substandard freeway system. All of the freeways within the city are fairly old, and most have 2 lanes of traffic in each direction. The 2 freeways on either side of the river are perpetually jammed. Fortunately, Seoul has arguably the best subway system in the world, but it's a terrible place to drive. 10 million city proper and 23 million in the metro area will do that. South Korea as a whole has a fine freeway system, and the shields and route numbers are modeled after the Interstate Highway system. All of the "interstates" are toll roads, but it's a well designed and efficient system. One glaring omission - the 50, which is the main highway between the Seoul metro area and the 2018 Winter Olympic site. It's woefully insufficient for bog standard 3 day weekend traffic to the coast, much less a major international event.
Dubai's system is fairly bad.
The west half of Bangkok has a pretty good freeway system (although, again, tolled).
Malaysia has a pretty good freeway network.
Quote from: jaehak on May 18, 2017, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 17, 2017, 07:46:57 PM
What cities outside of the countries of U.S., Canada, Japan, Australia, China, and Western Europe have the best freeway systems or ones that are closest to resembling American cities?
The contenders I know of would be Santiago(Chile), Buenos Aires, and Dubai. Keep in mind, I've only skimmed some of these cities on Google Maps and have never visited them. So those are mainly guesses. Last time I looked on Google Maps, Dubai's system was underwhelming to say the least.
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that Seoul, Moscow, and Mumbai have somewhat decent set-ups.
Seoul proper has a pretty substandard freeway system. All of the freeways within the city are fairly old, and most have 2 lanes of traffic in each direction. The 2 freeways on either side of the river are perpetually jammed. Fortunately, Seoul has arguably the best subway system in the world, but it's a terrible place to drive. 10 million city proper and 23 million in the metro area will do that. South Korea as a whole has a fine freeway system, and the shields and route numbers are modeled after the Interstate Highway system. All of the "interstates" are toll roads, but it's a well designed and efficient system. One glaring omission - the 50, which is the main highway between the Seoul metro area and the 2018 Winter Olympic site. It's woefully insufficient for bog standard 3 day weekend traffic to the coast, much less a major international event.
Dubai's system is fairly bad.
The west half of Bangkok has a pretty good freeway system (although, again, tolled).
Malaysia has a pretty good freeway network.
Have you been to China? I know they've been throwing money at highway projects the past decade
Quote from: roadman65 on May 15, 2017, 10:32:01 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 15, 2017, 10:23:51 AM
they should make i-90 have it's own route through chicago
You mean like what dzlabe proposed a hypotenuse? :D
I would use the lake shore drive.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 12, 2017, 09:42:45 AM
The Twin Cities, with their robust and comprehensive freeway network, make Chicagoland look like a festering pile of smoldering garbage that reeks of onion breath. Which it is.
:-D :clap: