Poll
Question:
Do You Like Drivers Driving Too Fast?
Option 1: No.
votes: 19
Option 2: I Was Almost A Victim From An Accident Of Somebody Driving Too Fast.
votes: 7
Option 3: I Was A Victim From An Accident Of Somebody Driving Too Fast.
votes: 2
Option 4: I Do Not Pay Attention To How Others Drive.
votes: 7
Option 5: I Do Not Pay Attention To How I Drive.
votes: 3
Option 6: I Drive Too Fast.
votes: 12
Option 7: Speed Limit Signs Are My Natural Enemy.
votes: 25
I must explain my driving habits which clash with usual driving habits:
I use cruise control. I do not know exactly how cruise control works but I don't think it guarantees the exact speed the entire time. Especially in older cars (perhaps with an older version of Cruise Control) that do not like hills, the cruise control results in slower speeds uphill and faster speeds downhill. I can not guarantee going the speed limit. If I am one or two MPH below, just deal with it.
The fastest I will go is the speed limit. I do not care if you think it is a speed suggestion. It is a limit. I fear being pulled over. I can not explain how everybody speeds and nobody is pulled over. I have been on Toll Roads that say "No Tolerance". or "Strictly Enforced". and I am still surprised.
Also, every time I do go the speed limit, the next thing I see on the side of the road is a bunch of tread separation tires, and / or skid marks. I immediately slow down.
I do not go too slow. I see the minimum speed sign which from my understanding is a legal speed. I usually do not drive the minimum speed.
There are times that I must drive slowly. This includes Rainy weather or even worse: Icy weather. or Foggy weather. I sometimes drive a little slower at night because it is easy to get lost at night.
I do not use cell phones or even dedicated GPS device. If I did, I would get even more lost.
Also, I like to look at the road and occasional glance at the dashboard. I do not like to look at cell phones.
I do not drink and drive.
I do not even smoke and drive either.
However, I do eat and drink (water or cranberry juice or something but not alcohol) while driving. I be sure to have one hand on the steering wheel and I still watch the road, not my food.
I almost always stay in the right lane. I almost never pass people. I have on occasion been in a hurry (and this resulted in me speeding 83 MPH to be able to pass vehicles.) otherwise I plan ahead so I don't be late. The only other time I am not in the farthest right lane is when there is more than one lane. Sometimes there are exits on the LEFT side of the road (or in a 5 lane Avenue road I have to go to the passing lane before arriving in the left turn lane) but there are some left hand exits (Purcell, Oklahoma for example seems to have only one exit on the south side of town. The north side of town is U.S. 77 splitting from Interstate 35 which is an unusual interchange that requires an exit from the left while going southbound. And another time is any Interchange where an Interstate splits from another Interstate. I MUST go to whichever lane required to go to The Interstate. Those are examples of needing to go to a different lane. Another time that I am not in the farthest right lane is when the highway is 3 or more lanes (in the same direction) I am in the second farthest right lane. This is because of traffic merging from the ramps.
If one lane is closed, (such as the passing lane) that requires a merge then I immediately get in the open lane if I am not already in it. Fortunately they give people plenty of time in advanced warning so I do not know why some other people wait until the last minute.
During construction they will post a slower speed limit. I will obey that speed limit.
At night, I slow down especially during construction areas. Some places might be confusing. It would be nice for the Ferranti Packards to have a message "Bridge Out." or "Bridge Out. Go To The Other Carriage Way." Traffic cones are the SAME colour which is confusing, especially if they are supposed to lead to the other carriage way. Other times they do Lane Shifts. Lane Shifts are also confusing. (and I really don't know how they can close HALF or part of a bridge while keeping the rest of it open?!) But in Texas (which has tons of Lane Shifts, bridge related or otherwise) they have reflectors of different colours, indicating where the lanes are. They are supposed to be different colours because each side of the road is striped differently. Those are easy to follow. But I don't think Orange construction cones are good enough when a bridge is out and you have to go to the other carriage way. Oklahoma currently is replacing bridges.
The Ramps have different signs that give a speed. I assume it is the required speed to safely enter the ramp. I obey these signs. Honking at me for obeying these signs, and then tailgating me, ... only shows what an oversized impatient child you are.
Any other times people honk, I suspect that they were not paying attention, were not expecting to slow down, and then honked. Or perhaps they have a temper tantrum for having to pass me.
You are free to pass me. That is what the other lane is for. I have been tailgated even though there is nobody else in the passing lane. Just pass me and get far away from me. I have absolutely no problem if you pass me. So why should you have any problem passing me?
I do accelerate if there are other cars in the passing lane. I will go to the speed limit.
Also, when the passing lane is clear and when the large vehicle passes me, I will slow down again so they can easily pass me.
Sometimes I feel exhausted, especially on a very long trip. I will drive slower while looking for a safe area to pull over to rest. And if necessary, to sleep. :sleep:
I am also concerned about MPG. Using Cruise Control, and driving slower, both improve MPG a little bit. And I will take any improvement. However, I usually do not drive slowly for this reason. I will go to the speed limit, but I still use cruise control whenever possible.
I also believe that speeding will cause wear and tear. I try to avoid speeding for this reason.
Trucks, Big Rigs, Semis, Tractor Trailers, 18 Wheelers, I might as well call them Lorries or Freight Vehicles ... are actually not the scariest thing tailgating me. Sometimes Freight Vehicles are Governed and most of the time they are very professional drivers ... unlikely to be on the Mobile Device browsing whatever Social Engineering website that The Thought Police made. ... and unlikely to be drunk. What is scarier than a Lorry is an RV. Especially a flat nosed motor home. As a result, These types of RVs appear to be much larger than a Lorry. And they are not necessarily a commercial driver that is driving them. RVs are extremely scary things when they are behind me.
I also do not understand tailgating, passing me, honking while passing, and then they exit at the next exit?!
And I be sure to keep plenty of distance between me and vehicles in front of me.
So this is an explanation of why I often drive below the speed limit and of why I hate to drive above the speed limit.
:angry:
Drivers who want to tailgate are not interested in my reasons. But are there any "I drive slower than you. Pass me as soon as possible. Unless we are on a curved ramp or construction zone." Bumper Stickers? If there are any then I will get them. I never had so much appreciation for bumper stickers. And now I can't wait to get them.
The standard speed limit is 65, but it has been reduced to 45 for construction. There is no construction going on; it is the wrong time of day. What speed do you go?
Quote from: 1 on May 16, 2017, 01:27:17 PM
The standard speed limit is 65, but it has been reduced to 45 for construction. There is no construction going on; it is the wrong time of day. What speed do you go?
I wish PennDOT would take the WV approach and make it only active work zone speed when flashing. I go about 52 in this case because I fully expect there to be enforcement somewhere. Usually, I'm at or slightly above the general flow of traffic in a non-work zone, but in this case I usually am getting blown out of the water.
Nexus 6P
Drive below the speed limit if you want. Just stick in the right lane (applause for doing so already). But, keep this in mind: The safest speed to drive is the prevailing speed of traffic around you. There's no data that suggests going the speed limit is the safest thing to do.
Speed limits reflect the flow of traffic, not the other way around....you see traffic that doesn't follow the limit, I see a limit that doesn't keep up with traffic.
Quote from: In_Correct on May 16, 2017, 01:24:20 PM
The Ramps have different signs that give a speed. I assume it is the required speed to safely enter the ramp. I obey these signs. Honking at me for obeying these signs, and then tailgating me, ... only shows what an oversized impatient child you are.
Being predictable pretty much guarantees a degree of safety. If there's a curve with an advisory limit of 50, but everyone takes it at 60, you're going to confuse everyone behind you by taking it at 50, even if the sign advises you to do so (yellow signs are not required speeds, by the way). You might even get rear-ended by a driver who didn't expect you to slow for the curve.
Another thing: these advisory limits reflect the cornering abilities of 1950s Americana -- modern day cars can take curves much faster than older cars, yet just as safely. Have you ever taken a corner above the advised limit of the yellow sign? It's really not that bad. It might be why everyone is honking at you.
All things considered, after reading your post...you sound
very timid. How long have you been driving?
Quote from: In_Correct on May 16, 2017, 01:24:20 PM
I almost always stay in the right lane...The only other time I am not in the farthest right lane is when there is more than one lane.
Huh?
Anyway, if you want to drive the speed limit, that's fine. Unlike what others may think, many people drive the speed limit.
Of course, that's not the only law. I'll see people fly thru a stop sign then go the limit, and you can tell they get irritated when others are tailgating them. Maybe if they had actually stopped at the stop sign, they wouldn't immediately be tailgated.
As hinted about, I see many drive the speed limit, but are in the center or left lanes. The law in many states is to keep right except when passing.
If you get to the left for a left handed exit, as long as you're being reasonable about it, that's fine. If you get in the left lane 5 miles prior to the exit, that's not being reasonable.
I'm a hurry up and wait kind of guy. If I could have a teleportation device I would only use that.
99.9% of the time, I give myself 5 MPH, AKA speed limit of 60, I'll set my cruise on 65. However, my car has is off a few mph, so it looks like 68.
That being said, I have two closing thoughts.
1. I slow up more cautiously than most other drivers. If there's driving rain, I'll slow down to 60 mph and cars fly by me still
2. 80 mph (true, so 83 in my truck) is my personal limit. Any faster than that, I start scaring myself.
U
Quote from: jakeroot on May 16, 2017, 02:01:31 PM
Speed limits reflect the flow of traffic, not the other way around....you see traffic that doesn't follow the limit, I see a limit that doesn't keep up with traffic.
I feel this kind of thinking is dangerous simply because it says "we don't agree with this limit, so we'll set our own and if you don't keep up you are the dangerous driver, not me." At the same time I've eased up a bit from when I started driving and I might drive +5-7 on the freeway but not on surface streets where there are more potential hazards.
Thank you for sharing.
As stated, the safest speed is the prevailing speed of those around you. On many interstates, driving even at, let alone below, the SL even in the right lane can be dangerous. It some instances it will place you in the bottom 5 %ile of traffic.
Crawling up an ACCELERATION ramp and then bursting in front of someone, and worse yet forcing multiple people behind you to do the same, is VERY dangerous. You might make it, others behind you may not. You should hit the main highway AT the speed you intend to drive, you should NOT use the highway to accelerate, you should already be AT speed. (Likewise, in most circumstances, the "off" ramp is a DECELERATION ramp, it is dangerous, in most circumstances, to use the highway for decelaration.
Obviously, there are weather circumstances, including rain, that require judgement. But a standard well maintained car can drive very acceptably in a light to medium rain storm.
Every SL increase has been followed by a decrease in traffic mortality and morbidity. Every one. I understand if you do not want random taxed. One of the evil things about the evil and illigitimate system of traffic enforcement is that it harms the poor in a different way than others. I get that. But do not confuse traffic laws with safety. They have nothing to do with one another.
Quote from: SP Cook on May 16, 2017, 02:38:00 PM
Every SL increase has been followed by a decrease in traffic mortality and morbidity. Every one. I understand if you do not want random taxed. One of the evil things about the evil and illigitimate system of traffic enforcement is that it harms the poor in a different way than others. I get that. But do not confuse traffic laws with safety. They have nothing to do with one another.
Not correct. While I generally favour speed limits more in line with actual design speeds of roads, to say that every speed limit increase in history has made the road more safe is a gross overstatement of the truth.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-speed-limits-1.3657259
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 16, 2017, 02:22:23 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 16, 2017, 02:01:31 PM
Speed limits reflect the flow of traffic, not the other way around....you see traffic that doesn't follow the limit, I see a limit that doesn't keep up with traffic.
I feel this kind of thinking is dangerous simply because it says "we don't agree with this limit, so we'll set our own and if you don't keep up you are the dangerous driver, not me." At the same time I've eased up a bit from when I started driving and I might drive +5-7 on the freeway but not on surface streets where there are more potential hazards.
There are two types of drivers: (1) those that drive the limit, and (2) those that drive the speed they feel is safest. A road that is underposted will have some drivers sticking to the limit, and others ignoring it, creating a large speed differential, which is factually very dangerous. Raising a limit achieves two things. One, it permits those who steadfastly observe limits to travel closer to the speed that other drivers were already doing. And two, it reduces the speed differential between all cars, which reduces the chance of a collision.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 16, 2017, 02:43:47 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 16, 2017, 02:38:00 PM
Every SL increase has been followed by a decrease in traffic mortality and morbidity. Every one. I understand if you do not want random taxed. One of the evil things about the evil and illigitimate system of traffic enforcement is that it harms the poor in a different way than others. I get that. But do not confuse traffic laws with safety. They have nothing to do with one another.
Not correct. While I generally favour speed limits more in line with actual design speeds of roads, to say that every speed limit increase in history has made the road more safe is a gross overstatement of the truth.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-speed-limits-1.3657259
Right. There's no way that every limit increase will result in a decrease in collisions and fatalities (statistically, it's basically impossible). But, most prove beneficial.
I'm with you. I believe we have a societal obligation to obey the laws, and I drive in accordance with that belief. It's worked well for me as I have a completely clean record after more than 20 years of driving. (As a disclaimer, I live in Texas, where rural speed limits, and urban freeway limits, are generally reasonable and easy to comply with.)
The sign at an exit ramp is an advisory speed that applies to the end of the ramp, not the beginning. You should not slow down on the freeway lane except in unusual circumstances. I've seen advisory speeds of 25 on short ramps with sharp curves at the end because it joins a two-way frontage road. The highway department later built deceleration lanes to keep traffic from slowing down on the through lane. Freeways built to modern standards don't have this problem.
Always remember that the first rule is safety. An example I use is I-20 in Fort Worth. It had a speed limit of 60 for a long time, but people went about 70. Most of the time I could go 60 in the right lane and it wasn't a problem. Sometimes, though, it would result in frequent passing maneuvers in dense traffic, which is unsafe. I'd disregard the speed limit and go fast enough to prevent that. Now, fortunately, the speed limit is 70, which is how fast most traffic moves, so I never speed there now.
Just in general, how speed limits are set up are in kind of a logical feedback cycle. You set it at the 85th percentile. Okay, once you do that, do you move the 85th percentile more? I dunno, I haven't researched that topic before.
Although school speed limits are another thing. I actually agree with the principal (Just don't go from 40mph to 20mph or something like that as a speed trap)
Quote from: intelati49 on May 16, 2017, 03:32:31 PM
Just in general, how speed limits are set up are in kind of a logical feedback cycle. You set it at the 85th percentile. Okay, once you do that, do you move the 85th percentile more? I dunno, I haven't researched that topic before.
The 85th percentile moves up 2-3 mph for each 10 mph increase, so there is no infinite cycle.
One thing about driving solely in the right lane on a limited-access facility is that one is constantly changing speeds due to vehicles entering and exiting and the need to accommodate those actions. On a 4-lane (2+2) facility that would be considered intrinsic or "par for the course" -- but 4-lane freeways mostly tend to be more suburban or rural, with widely spaced interchanges -- so the disruption to consistent speed may be relatively minimal. However, on a facility of 6 lanes or more, one of the center lanes might be more optimal for maintenance of a constant speed -- but if one is adamant about adherence to the speed limit as an a priori standard, then the center lane may be problematic, since in my experience, it usually "floats" about 5-7 mph above the posted limit.
While strict adherence to those limits may be admirable -- at least to those folks who value deference -- IMO it's more valuable as a guideline than an obsession. The act of driving is applied methodology -- elevating that methodology into an ideology based on external standards might not be the way to promote safe practices. Sorry to say, the term "road boulder" might be applicable here -- and those folks are rarely the subject of widespread admiration or even emulation! Best of luck to In_Correct -- they'll need it!
Quote from: jakeroot on May 16, 2017, 02:01:31 PM
Drive below the speed limit if you want. Just stick in the right lane (applause for doing so already). But, keep this in mind: The safest speed to drive is the prevailing speed of traffic around you. There's no data that suggests going the speed limit is the safest thing to do.
Speed limits reflect the flow of traffic, not the other way around....you see traffic that doesn't follow the limit, I see a limit that doesn't keep up with traffic.
Quote from: In_Correct on May 16, 2017, 01:24:20 PM
The Ramps have different signs that give a speed. I assume it is the required speed to safely enter the ramp. I obey these signs. Honking at me for obeying these signs, and then tailgating me, ... only shows what an oversized impatient child you are.
Being predictable pretty much guarantees a degree of safety. If there's a curve with an advisory limit of 50, but everyone takes it at 60, you're going to confuse everyone behind you by taking it at 50, even if the sign advises you to do so (yellow signs are not required speeds, by the way). You might even get rear-ended by a driver who didn't expect you to slow for the curve.
Another thing: these advisory limits reflect the cornering abilities of 1950s Americana -- modern day cars can take curves much faster than older cars, yet just as safely. Have you ever taken a corner above the advised limit of the yellow sign? It's really not that bad. It might be why everyone is honking at you.
All things considered, after reading your post...you sound very timid. How long have you been driving?
The ramp with the yellow sign was a curved exit ramp from the left lane of a highway to the left lane of the other highway. I was going 10 above the yellow sign but a car still honked and tailgated me. Once I arrived on the other highway I moved out of the left lane.
Quote from: In_Correct on May 16, 2017, 01:24:20 PM
I must explain my driving habits which clash with usual driving habits:
I use cruise control. I do not know exactly how cruise control works but I don't think it guarantees the exact speed the entire time. Especially in older cars (perhaps with an older version of Cruise Control) that do not like hills, the cruise control results in slower speeds uphill and faster speeds downhill. I can not guarantee going the speed limit. If I am one or two MPH below, just deal with it.
The fastest I will go is the speed limit. I do not care if you think it is a speed suggestion. It is a limit. I fear being pulled over. I can not explain how everybody speeds and nobody is pulled over. I have been on Toll Roads that say "No Tolerance". or "Strictly Enforced". and I am still surprised.
Then stay in the right lane, please. I find most "No Tolerance" signage to be joke.
QuoteAlso, every time I do go the speed limit, the next thing I see on the side of the road is a bunch of tread separation tires, and / or skid marks. I immediately slow down.
That has little to do with speed and more to do with the driver not paying attention/following too closely. As for tread separation, that happens on trucks from time-to-time. It has noting to do with speed, rather, it has to do with the quality of the tires or the quality of the tread repair.
QuoteI do not go too slow. I see the minimum speed sign which from my understanding is a legal speed. I usually do not drive the minimum speed.
There are times that I must drive slowly. This includes Rainy weather or even worse: Icy weather. or Foggy weather. I sometimes drive a little slower at night because it is easy to get lost at night.
Again, then stay in the right lane. I'm sick of people who cannot handle snow, ice, or rain clogging up the left lane. As for the night, replace your headlights. As for fog, maintain speed. People get rear ended because they go far too slowly in fog on freeways.
QuoteI do not use cell phones or even dedicated GPS device. If I did, I would get even more lost.
Also, I like to look at the road and occasional glance at the dashboard. I do not like to look at cell phones.
I do not drink and drive.
I do not even smoke and drive either.
However, I do eat and drink (water or cranberry juice or something but not alcohol) while driving. I be sure to have one hand on the steering wheel and I still watch the road, not my food.
Food and drink can be just as much as a distraction as a phone.
QuoteI almost always stay in the right lane. I almost never pass people. I have on occasion been in a hurry (and this resulted in me speeding 83 MPH to be able to pass vehicles.) otherwise I plan ahead so I don't be late. The only other time I am not in the farthest right lane is when there is more than one lane. Sometimes there are exits on the LEFT side of the road (or in a 5 lane Avenue road I have to go to the passing lane before arriving in the left turn lane) but there are some left hand exits (Purcell, Oklahoma for example seems to have only one exit on the south side of town. The north side of town is U.S. 77 splitting from Interstate 35 which is an unusual interchange that requires an exit from the left while going southbound. And another time is any Interchange where an Interstate splits from another Interstate. I MUST go to whichever lane required to go to The Interstate. Those are examples of needing to go to a different lane. Another time that I am not in the farthest right lane is when the highway is 3 or more lanes (in the same direction) I am in the second farthest right lane. This is because of traffic merging from the ramps.
If one lane is closed, (such as the passing lane) that requires a merge then I immediately get in the open lane if I am not already in it. Fortunately they give people plenty of time in advanced warning so I do not know why some other people wait until the last minute.
During construction they will post a slower speed limit. I will obey that speed limit.
At night, I slow down especially during construction areas. Some places might be confusing. It would be nice for the Ferranti Packards to have a message "Bridge Out." or "Bridge Out. Go To The Other Carriage Way." Traffic cones are the SAME colour which is confusing, especially if they are supposed to lead to the other carriage way. Other times they do Lane Shifts. Lane Shifts are also confusing. (and I really don't know how they can close HALF or part of a bridge while keeping the rest of it open?!) But in Texas (which has tons of Lane Shifts, bridge related or otherwise) they have reflectors of different colours, indicating where the lanes are. They are supposed to be different colours because each side of the road is striped differently. Those are easy to follow. But I don't think Orange construction cones are good enough when a bridge is out and you have to go to the other carriage way. Oklahoma currently is replacing bridges.
The Ramps have different signs that give a speed. I assume it is the required speed to safely enter the ramp. I obey these signs. Honking at me for obeying these signs, and then tailgating me, ... only shows what an oversized impatient child you are.
The ramp speed is a suggested speed if you are driving a truck in inclement weather. Get your ass up to speed and learn how to handle a curve, buddy. In Illinois, they're usually posted 20-30 mph below what the ramp can be taken safely at.
QuoteAny other times people honk, I suspect that they were not paying attention, were not expecting to slow down, and then honked. Or perhaps they have a temper tantrum for having to pass me.
You are free to pass me. That is what the other lane is for. I have been tailgated even though there is nobody else in the passing lane. Just pass me and get far away from me. I have absolutely no problem if you pass me. So why should you have any problem passing me?
I do accelerate if there are other cars in the passing lane. I will go to the speed limit.
Also, when the passing lane is clear and when the large vehicle passes me, I will slow down again so they can easily pass me.
Sometimes I feel exhausted, especially on a very long trip. I will drive slower while looking for a safe area to pull over to rest. And if necessary, to sleep. :sleep:
I am also concerned about MPG. Using Cruise Control, and driving slower, both improve MPG a little bit. And I will take any improvement. However, I usually do not drive slowly for this reason. I will go to the speed limit, but I still use cruise control whenever possible.
I also believe that speeding will cause wear and tear. I try to avoid speeding for this reason.
It doesn't. Stop and go traffic is what causes major wear and tear.
QuoteTrucks, Big Rigs, Semis, Tractor Trailers, 18 Wheelers, I might as well call them Lorries or Freight Vehicles ... are actually not the scariest thing tailgating me. Sometimes Freight Vehicles are Governed and most of the time they are very professional drivers ... unlikely to be on the Mobile Device browsing whatever Social Engineering website that The Thought Police made. ... and unlikely to be drunk. What is scarier than a Lorry is an RV. Especially a flat nosed motor home. As a result, These types of RVs appear to be much larger than a Lorry. And they are not necessarily a commercial driver that is driving them. RVs are extremely scary things when they are behind me.
I also do not understand tailgating, passing me, honking while passing, and then they exit at the next exit?!
And I be sure to keep plenty of distance between me and vehicles in front of me.
A wise idea regardless of speed.
QuoteSo this is an explanation of why I often drive below the speed limit and of why I hate to drive above the speed limit.
:angry:
Drivers who want to tailgate are not interested in my reasons. But are there any "I drive slower than you. Pass me as soon as possible. Unless we are on a curved ramp or construction zone." Bumper Stickers? If there are any then I will get them. I never had so much appreciation for bumper stickers. And now I can't wait to get them.
By the way, an acceleration ramp is just that, an acceleration ramp. Get up to speed as best you can by the end of the ramp to merge in smoothly with traffic.
I generally stick to 5 MPH over on 2-lane roads or 7 over on a freeway. I've typically found poor driving ability to be the primary culprit of accidents and traffic jams rather than someone speeding. I much rather encounter someone who drives fast but maintains good reactionary distances and knows how to merge back into the proper lanes.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 16, 2017, 02:43:47 PM
Not correct.
Quite correct. In the first year of the evil NMSL, traffic mortality in the USA per VMT was a whopping 3.53. Finally some rural interstates were permited to raise the SL in 1987, and by 1992, despite the idiotic spew from the insurance, courthouse gang and police lobbies, it had declined to 1.75. Finally inn 1995, the idiotic NMSL died. Again the special interests spewed idiocy. And the rate was 1.73. By 2003 it stood at 1.48. The most recent year measured was 1.12.
1.12 with SLs as high as 85. 3.35 with a uniform idiotic SL of 55. Pure science.
And, of course, these are figures from ALL types of highways. The safest form of highway to drive upon, of course, are rural interstates. The ones with the highest average speeds and highest SLs.
The idea that SLs set too low save lives is just wrong. And, since we have not yet seen an uptick in the figures, despite higher and higher limits, we know that the SLs are still way too low.
Whenever I am in rural areas or on city streets I strictly follow the speed limit. Whenever I'm in a big city (Chicago, Houston, Toronto, etc) and I'm on the interstate (or similar in the Toronto case) I drive way over the speed limit (aka with the flow of traffic). I know in Houston I drove about 75 mph all the way through in the far 2 left lanes. I think the speed limit was 55 or 60. They might as well not even post speed limits in those places.
School speed limits I sometimes follow, but more than not I don't. If the normal speed limit is 40 and the school speed limit is 20, I'll usually go about 30 (halfway in the middle) whenever school is in session just to show that I somewhat respect that there is a school speed limit. The only way I actually follow them is if a) there are children actually present by the road or b) if it posts times as to when you have to go the school speed limit.
Quote from: wxfree on May 16, 2017, 03:07:26 PM
I'm with you. I believe we have a societal obligation to obey the laws...
Without going full Godwin's Law on you, no we don't. Did Rosa Parks have a "societal obligation" to sit in the back of the bus? How about Mildred and Richard Loving? Yick Wo?
The all violated an illigitmate and rediculious law.
Now, is the SL as important a topic? No. (Although DWB is a real thing, and having ANY law that esentually no one obeys empowes the police to selective enforcement.) We, all of us, violated the NMSL and it went away. It was an unjust law. By ridiculing it, we delegitimized it and destroyed it. And saved a lot of lives.
No matter where I am, I will always follow the flow of traffic because it's just safer to keep up with the pack. Now of course you'll get the maniacs who drive insanely fast but on average most people will follow a similar speed. My routine for streets:
Local roads: 5 over limit (people still do 15 over which is dangerous)
Interstates or divided highways in city: between 70 and 75
Interstates or divided highways in rural: 75-80
What I've found when I follow these, I've kept up with traffic and prevented any slowdowns caused by me. It's just safer to keep up with flow.
Quote from: SP Cook on May 17, 2017, 09:09:46 AM
Quite correct. In the first year of the evil NMSL, traffic mortality in the USA per VMT was a whopping 3.53. Finally some rural interstates were permited to raise the SL in 1987, and by 1992, despite the idiotic spew from the insurance, courthouse gang and police lobbies, it had declined to 1.75. Finally inn 1995, the idiotic NMSL died. Again the special interests spewed idiocy. And the rate was 1.73. By 2003 it stood at 1.48. The most recent year measured was 1.12.
1.12 with SLs as high as 85. 3.35 with a uniform idiotic SL of 55. Pure science.
And, of course, these are figures from ALL types of highways. The safest form of highway to drive upon, of course, are rural interstates. The ones with the highest average speeds and highest SLs.
The idea that SLs set too low save lives is just wrong. And, since we have not yet seen an uptick in the figures, despite higher and higher limits, we know that the SLs are still way too low.
One shouldn't assume causation simply because there is correlation.
Deaths in car wrecks trending downward since the 70's has everything to do with advances in automobile safety. The relationship to speed limit is spurious. To suggest otherwise is
bad science since it does not control for other, more influential factors.
A specific example; the end of a national speed limit coincides with the mandate to include airbags for driver and front passenger. Airbags were becoming standard features in the same time period.
The most we can definitively say is speed limit has far less of an impact on highway fatalities than the safety of the automobiles themselves.
Quote from: In_Correct on May 16, 2017, 01:24:20 PMI am also concerned about MPG. Using Cruise Control, and driving slower, both improve MPG a little bit. And I will take any improvement.
It's worth noting that overdrive & multiple-speed transmissions have bumped the so-called MPG sweetspot to higher speeds. The
Double-Nickel NSL was first implemented as a knee-jerk (IMHO) response to rising gas prices (& related gas lines) that took place circa 1973-74
and when 3-speed automatics & manual transmissions (both non-overdrive) were still the order of the day. GM had just phased out its 2-speed Powerglide automatic a year or two earlier.
Case & point: both of my vehicles (a 2007 Mustang w/5-speed auto & a 2011 Crown Vic w/4-speed auto) get their optimum average fuel economy between 67-72 mph. Heck, my Crown Vic has averaged 27-28 mpg (all highway driving) at those average speeds; which is higher than its posted EPA highway estimate (which are typically measured at 45-50 mph).
Quote from: intelati49 on May 16, 2017, 03:32:31 PM
Just in general, how speed limits are set up are in kind of a logical feedback cycle. You set it at the 85th percentile. Okay, once you do that, do you move the 85th percentile more? I dunno, I haven't researched that topic before.
One important thing to realize is that associated increase isn't because the cars that were speeding before were going any faster.. just that the cars that were strictly following the speed limit are now going a closer speed to the cars that were going faster.
Those who speed (especially on the high end of the spectrum) typically do not notice the speed limit increased... they're not following it anyways.
I'm sort of guilty of exceeding speed limits by about 5-10 miles per hour. But I absolutely hate people who completely disregard speed limits and just want to go as fast as they possibly can. Again, I may be a bit of a hypocrite saying that, but I do notice speed limit signs and try my best to either maintain that limit or not go too far above it.
Quote from: epzik8 on May 17, 2017, 01:25:35 PM
I'm sort of guilty of exceeding speed limits by about 5-10 miles per hour. But I absolutely hate people who completely disregard speed limits and just want to go as fast as they possibly can. Again, I may be a bit of a hypocrite saying that, but I do notice speed limit signs and try my best to either maintain that limit or not go too far above it.
What constitutes "as fast as...[possible]"? I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone pass me going more than 100, and that was a very unusual circumstance. The very fastest drivers seem to top out at about 85 around here. The fact is that most, if not all cars built in the last ten years are capable of travelling 100+, yet no one travels that fast.
And therein lies the folly of "everyone just goes 10 over anyway". Humans have a natural speed limit. It's the limit of how quickly we can react. Speeds over that don't feel safe to us. The Autobahn is an example of this "natural speed limit". In the unrestricted sections, average speeds are around 75 (as of 1992, the last year of available data). These people could go as fast as they want, yet they don't go much more than that. Why? Because it doesn't feel safe (my gut tells me that people drive faster than that now, but I don't have any data to support that).
I voted for "Speed Limit Signs Are My Natural Enemy" :). I personally find too many low speed limits in Ontario, like the 401 being 100 km/h (62 mph), and many wide arterial roads in my area are only 50 km/h (31 mph). I can respect slower drivers as long as they don't purposely block the passing lane (which some do!). Though it's hard not to be annoyed when some have the "high-horse" attitude that they're automatically better drivers just because they follow the limit to the t.
I enjoyed driving in rural Saskatchewan where two-line roads are 100 km/h. However, Circle Drive in Saskatoon is only 90 km/h and photo enforced (my nightmare) :-D. I was impressed at how the cameras force everyone to drive that slow, but I'm just thankful Ontario hasn't adopted these speed cameras yet :).
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 17, 2017, 11:00:29 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 17, 2017, 09:09:46 AM
Quite correct. In the first year of the evil NMSL, traffic mortality in the USA per VMT was a whopping 3.53. Finally some rural interstates were permited to raise the SL in 1987, and by 1992, despite the idiotic spew from the insurance, courthouse gang and police lobbies, it had declined to 1.75. Finally inn 1995, the idiotic NMSL died. Again the special interests spewed idiocy. And the rate was 1.73. By 2003 it stood at 1.48. The most recent year measured was 1.12.
1.12 with SLs as high as 85. 3.35 with a uniform idiotic SL of 55. Pure science.
And, of course, these are figures from ALL types of highways. The safest form of highway to drive upon, of course, are rural interstates. The ones with the highest average speeds and highest SLs.
The idea that SLs set too low save lives is just wrong. And, since we have not yet seen an uptick in the figures, despite higher and higher limits, we know that the SLs are still way too low.
One shouldn't assume causation simply because there is correlation.
Deaths in car wrecks trending downward since the 70's has everything to do with advances in automobile safety. The relationship to speed limit is spurious. To suggest otherwise is bad science since it does not control for other, more influential factors.
A specific example; the end of a national speed limit coincides with the mandate to include airbags for driver and front passenger. Airbags were becoming standard features in the same time period.
The most we can definitively say is speed limit has far less of an impact on highway fatalities than the safety of the automobiles themselves.
We also have data from recent speed limit increases in states, which have shown the exact same thing. I don't think automobile safety features have anything to do with those.
People who drive fast are prevalent in Arkansas (especially around Blytheville). I set my cruise control to 75 if the speed limit is 70, but people zip by me going a good 80-90+. Fuck, just today I saw people zipping down the shoulder at 80/90 during a traffic jam on I-55 in West Memphis. The people around these parts are total idiots.
There are instances where doing the speed limit is ridiculous, specifically on I-90 in the Buffalo urbanized area (55 MPH). Very few people go this slow, most are doing 60 at a minimum, with 65 likely the average and others doing 70 as you go left.
On the mainline Thruway, I usually do between 65-70, and not usually more than this unless I have to. My car is an early 2000s SUV/truck that burns a lot of gas, and I'm not willing to go over 80-85 anywhere in it.
On the question "Do you like drivers driving too fast?" I voted no.
Why? Because I can't concieveably think that anyone would like someone driving too fast for the roadway or the prevailing conditions.
But that begs the next question: How fast is too fast?
Is it going over that arbitrary number in black type on a white sign?
For the most part I'm with SP Cook. Not about traffic laws in general, most of the vehicle code in the several states are there for our safety. Run a couple of stop signs or red lights at a busy intersection and see how fast you get into a wreck. Fail to yield the right of way to the vehicle that should have it and see how long it takes before you hurt or kill someone. The various iterations of the "Move Over Law" has saved countless lives of our first responders. Tailgating is illegal in every state and for good reason. DWI and Driving While Distracted laws in all their various forms have been absolutely neccessary, violate them at your own peril, you will have zero sympathy from me.
But he is spot on when it comes to speed limits. Since the 1970's speed limits in and of themselves have had nothing to do with safety, but for more revenue enhancement. Yeah the NMSL itself was originally about fuel economy. But the various governmental entities starting seeing an absolute windfall in ticket revenues, and the insurance companies started reaping huge profits when states started reporting the number of points on your record to them. That's what kept the NMSL around for as long as it was. If you had a cash cow, would you want the federal government to do something to take that away from you? I thought not.
In another thread we were discussing what it was like pre-NMSL. I was too young to remember those days, but my parents always said that the speed limits felt more inline with the type of road they were posted on and they couldn't remember too many people blowing their doors off by going way over that number (65 or 70 or whatever it was). They said that most people actually did the speed limit.
Along comes the NMSL and most actually adhered to it for a few months, after all our National Security depended upon it. <sarcasm intended> As it dragged on, so did the feeling of the average road trip. 55 on I-65 between Gary and Indianapolis felt ridiculously slow. The prevailing speed started creeping up, slowly at first. People started getting the idea that they could get away with 60-65 without getting smoked with a ticket (my dad's default speed was 62). By the time I started to drive in the mid 80's, the disdain for "Arrive Alive, Drive 55" was in full effect. People spent big money on radar detectors, and people started to really fly. It was nothing to be doing 60-65 and watching some one soar by at 75+, only to see their brake lights come on a half mile up the road in response to their radar detector.
We all know the story after that, the repeal of the NMSL and where we are today. There is an entire generation of drivers on the road, those in my age group +20/-5 who learned absolute disdain for that black on white speed limit sign. They know what it means and what they can get away with and they will push to that edge. Those who go over that edge eventually get caught and get very expensive tickets.
I think that for the most part, the speed limits that most of us complain about are the freeway speed limits, and to some extent expressway speed limits (Chicagoans see freeway for full access control, I'm talking 4 lanes with at grades and a few stop lights here, lol). I feel like most towns and cities do get their speed limits right on their arterials and side streets (admittedly some of the NC towns with 20 MPH speed limits on their Main St is a little ridiculous, however). There are several at grade expressways in eastern NC that could easily support 60, maybe even 65mph but are still stuck at 55. The state has allowed a few (NC-11 between Kinston and Greenville comes to mind) to be posted at 60mph but only after the elimination of cross-overs and left turns at uncontrolled intersections. Most people do 65 on NC-11, and 60-62 on the 55 mph portions of US-70. There arent a whole lot going over those speeds, myself included.
I feel like the guy who is right at or below the speed limit, clogging the left lane of a 4-6 lane freeway is every bit as dangerous as that douchenozzle that is going 30+ over weaving back and forth and passing on the shoulder (etc). The slow poke is causing multiple traffic conflicts behind him, often times not even having a clue that is what is happening. It doesn't take a college professor to figure out that the more traffic conflicts there are, the higher the likelyhood of 2 vehicles trying to occupy the same space at the same time becomes. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen!
So how fast is too fast? That is up for each individual driver to ascertain. I would think that it would be the speed that would cause one to have to do some really dangerous crap to maintain it (drive down the shoulders, lane split, weaving back and forth just to "go where they a'int" (to borrow a racing term). I don't think that there is an absolute number, just whatever speed that causes you to be the traffic conflict for everyone else on the road. At some point somebody isn't going to be able to get out of your way fast enough, or they'll duck for that hole you were getting ready to occupy and that'll be it.
OP, congrats on obeying the speed limit. If it makes you feel better than do it. Only, as many others before me have said, keep it in the right lane and I will never have an issue with you.
Here's a stretch where I first (And only) got stopped for speeding (http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article146098589.html)
It was 55mph, I was merging into the "interstate" so I got up to 70. It was 55 there. Oops. Now it's 65 and I'm kind of mad.
If higher speed limits are safer, how do you explain these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#Effectiveness
Quote from: bzakharin on May 18, 2017, 02:10:52 PM
If higher speed limits are safer, how do you explain these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#Effectiveness
How do you explain the note for the US showing decreases or no significant changes when speed limits were raised, yet individual states managed to have huge increases in deaths?
Yet, year-over-year, total deaths have gone down. Dramatically.
Sounds like there's a little number playing going on. And, Because, Wikipedia.
Quote from: bzakharin on May 18, 2017, 02:10:52 PM
If higher speed limits are safer, how do you explain these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#Effectiveness
You missed this part:
QuoteUS (22 states) (1992) 5 mph to 15 mph (8 km/h to 24 km/h) decreases No significant changes
Quote
US (Michigan) (1992) Various No significant changes
US (Ohio) (1992) 55 mph to 65 mph (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Injury and property damage increased but not fatal crashes.[84]
US (40 states) (1994) 55 mph to 65 mph (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Statewide fatality rates decreased 3-5% (Significant in 14 of 40 states)
US (22 states) (1997) 5 mph to 15 mph (8 km/h to 24 km/h) increase No significant changes
You were saying?
Quote from: Brandon on May 18, 2017, 02:16:15 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on May 18, 2017, 02:10:52 PM
If higher speed limits are safer, how do you explain these?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#Effectiveness
You missed this part:
QuoteUS (22 states) (1992) 5 mph to 15 mph (8 km/h to 24 km/h) decreases No significant changes
Quote
US (Michigan) (1992) Various No significant changes
US (Ohio) (1992) 55 mph to 65 mph (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Injury and property damage increased but not fatal crashes.[84]
US (40 states) (1994) 55 mph to 65 mph (89 km/h to 105 km/h) Statewide fatality rates decreased 3-5% (Significant in 14 of 40 states)
US (22 states) (1997) 5 mph to 15 mph (8 km/h to 24 km/h) increase No significant changes
You were saying?
Well sure, there are exceptions, but there is a general trend. I mean certainly each case should be looked at separately, but the default should take these things into account. Don't get me wrong, it *feels* to me like the speed limits around here (NJ and vicinity) are way too low, but that does not make it objectively true.
What I personally do is exceed the speed limit by up to 10 MPH, up to 15 on freeways, especially in 55 MPH zones. There are very few cases when I don't do this, mostly residential roads and those with sharp curves. I feel like I'd keep doing this if speed limits went up, though I doubt I'd exceed 80 or 85, maybe 90 when passing.
Quote from: ET21 on May 17, 2017, 09:49:06 AM
No matter where I am, I will always follow the flow of traffic because it's just safer to keep up with the pack. Now of course you'll get the maniacs who drive insanely fast but on average most people will follow a similar speed. My routine for streets:
Local roads: 5 over limit (people still do 15 over which is dangerous)
Interstates or divided highways in city: between 70 and 75
Interstates or divided highways in rural: 75-80
What I've found when I follow these, I've kept up with traffic and prevented any slowdowns caused by me. It's just safer to keep up with flow.
People are doing 75-80+ on the new part of I-90 and it's still posted at 55
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on May 18, 2017, 02:46:57 PM
Quote from: ET21 on May 17, 2017, 09:49:06 AM
No matter where I am, I will always follow the flow of traffic because it's just safer to keep up with the pack. Now of course you'll get the maniacs who drive insanely fast but on average most people will follow a similar speed. My routine for streets:
Local roads: 5 over limit (people still do 15 over which is dangerous)
Interstates or divided highways in city: between 70 and 75
Interstates or divided highways in rural: 75-80
What I've found when I follow these, I've kept up with traffic and prevented any slowdowns caused by me. It's just safer to keep up with flow.
People are doing 75-80+ on the new part of I-90 and it's still posted at 55
And ISP District 15 is probably enforcing 75-80 (maybe even higher). I've been going 70-75 on the tollways (55 zones) and have had my doors blown off by them.
Quote from: bzakharin on May 18, 2017, 02:32:52 PM
Well sure, there are exceptions, but there is a general trend. I mean certainly each case should be looked at separately, but the default should take these things into account.
It is fairly obvious that there will be few, if any, fatalities at 5 MPH limit (deaths from boredom don't count); and much more fatalities at 500 MPH (about airplane speed in cruise). I suspect there is a fairly large plateau somewhere in 50-60 MPH range with small relative changes.
However the question I would ask is what is the acceptable accident rate for us. If reducing all highway speed limits by 5 MPH (think NMSL) would result in 1 less death nationwide over next 10 years - is it worth doing? what if 1 death a day? 1 death over our lifetime?
Driving - and pretty much any other transportation mode, including walking - carries some risks. We are used to accepting those risks by virtue of being, well, humans. Unacceptable risk threshold is different for all of us, and choice of speed limit is, basically, negotiation of those common risks - some would have to accept higher thresholds, some would be forced to slow down.
Saying "there is an increase/decrease in rate" is nothing. It is question of risk worth taking.
I can give a few estimates of what would be acceptable from my perspective - but then invariably there would be someone saying "my spouse/kid/parent died because of people LIKE YOU!!!" - and burst into tears. Well, if anyone loosing lottery would blame the organizers - there would be no gambling... But again such response would be booed at...
I only drive the speed limit when I'm drunk or high...... Just kidding
Speed limits should be for the design of the road and surroundings.
Most people who drive are cluless. They dont read signs. They dont pay attention to traffic conditions. Make stupid decisions (ie maybe turning left into the gas station isnt the best decision during rush hour) if you miss your exit go to the next one.
Always going the speed limit doesnt make you a better citizen or more virtuous. I remember years ago going to a class to avoid point on my
licence( mea culpa) the instructor from the Northeast Florida Safety Council talked about "too safe Sally or Sam" being dangerous on the road
LGMS428
Quote from: vdeane on May 17, 2017, 07:13:40 PM
We also have data from recent speed limit increases in states, which have shown the exact same thing. I don't think automobile safety features have anything to do with those.
Are these the speed limit increases that coincided with the Great Recession when people were driving less? I want to make sure this is a fatality rate you are referencing and not a raw number of fatalities.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2017, 03:12:11 PM
Are these the speed limit increases that coincided with the Great Recession when people were driving less? I want to make sure this is a fatality rate you are referencing and not a raw number of fatalities.
The numbers I quoted were per VMT.
Fact is the SLs keep going up, and the traffic fatalities keep going down. Pure science.
Quote from: SP Cook on May 20, 2017, 03:29:24 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2017, 03:12:11 PM
Are these the speed limit increases that coincided with the Great Recession when people were driving less? I want to make sure this is a fatality rate you are referencing and not a raw number of fatalities.
The numbers I quoted were per VMT.
Fact is the SLs keep going up, and the traffic fatalities keep going down. Pure science.
Correlation does not imply causation.
Better cars, seatbelt use, airbags, ABS, traction control, blind spot warnings, rear view cameras, more and more aggressive dealing with drunk driving, reduced legal alcohol limits.....
I would credit last 2 items most, btw.
Quote from: kalvado on May 20, 2017, 03:50:14 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 20, 2017, 03:29:24 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2017, 03:12:11 PM
Are these the speed limit increases that coincided with the Great Recession when people were driving less? I want to make sure this is a fatality rate you are referencing and not a raw number of fatalities.
The numbers I quoted were per VMT.
Fact is the SLs keep going up, and the traffic fatalities keep going down. Pure science.
Correlation does not imply causation.
Better cars, seatbelt use, airbags, ABS, traction control, blind spot warnings, rear view cameras, more and more aggressive dealing with drunk driving, reduced legal alcohol limits.....
I would credit last 2 items most, btw.
All of which help where crashes and fatalities are most likely to happen: surface streets and two-lane rural roads. What's forgotten here, is that even with the high speeds, the freeway is the safest road there is.
Quote from: Brandon on May 20, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
All of which help where crashes and fatalities are most likely to happen: surface streets and two-lane rural roads. What's forgotten here, is that even with the high speeds, the freeway is the safest road there is.
safest per mile, or safest per trip?
my average round on surface streets is 2-3 miles, my daily highway dash is 20 miles one way.
If highway is 10x safer per mile, it makes it about as dangerous as surface street for me.
Quote from: kalvado on May 20, 2017, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 20, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
All of which help where crashes and fatalities are most likely to happen: surface streets and two-lane rural roads. What's forgotten here, is that even with the high speeds, the freeway is the safest road there is.
safest per mile, or safest per trip?
my average round on surface streets is 2-3 miles, my daily highway dash is 20 miles one way.
If highway is 10x safer per mile, it makes it about as dangerous as surface street for me.
If you are going 17-18 miles out of your way just to use a freeway, and using the surface roads would be 2-3 miles, you're doing it wrong.
Quote from: 1 on May 20, 2017, 09:17:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on May 20, 2017, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 20, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
All of which help where crashes and fatalities are most likely to happen: surface streets and two-lane rural roads. What's forgotten here, is that even with the high speeds, the freeway is the safest road there is.
safest per mile, or safest per trip?
my average round on surface streets is 2-3 miles, my daily highway dash is 20 miles one way.
If highway is 10x safer per mile, it makes it about as dangerous as surface street for me.
If you are going 17-18 miles out of your way just to use a freeway, and using the surface roads would be 2-3 miles, you're doing it wrong.
No, you got me wrong, sorry.
My normal commute is ~0.7 mile street +~19.5 mile highway + 1 mile street.
Even if highway is safer
per mile, getting an accident on a highway is much more likely that getting an accident on a street on
per ride basis for me. And I think I am not an anomaly in terms of highway-heavy commute, even though my street/highway ratio is on lower side...
Quote from: kalvado on May 20, 2017, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 20, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
All of which help where crashes and fatalities are most likely to happen: surface streets and two-lane rural roads. What's forgotten here, is that even with the high speeds, the freeway is the safest road there is.
safest per mile, or safest per trip?
my average round on surface streets is 2-3 miles, my daily highway dash is 20 miles one way.
If highway is 10x safer per mile, it makes it about as dangerous as surface street for me.
Not in the least. It means you're far more likely to be injured or killed at one of the intersections on the surface streets. Speed does not kill; intersections do.
Quote from: Brandon on May 21, 2017, 07:14:48 AM
Quote from: kalvado on May 20, 2017, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 20, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
All of which help where crashes and fatalities are most likely to happen: surface streets and two-lane rural roads. What's forgotten here, is that even with the high speeds, the freeway is the safest road there is.
safest per mile, or safest per trip?
my average round on surface streets is 2-3 miles, my daily highway dash is 20 miles one way.
If highway is 10x safer per mile, it makes it about as dangerous as surface street for me.
Not in the least. It means you're far more likely to be injured or killed at one of the intersections on the surface streets. Speed does not kill; intersections do.
Probably not. The very stretch of highway I am using has fairly regular fatal accidents - at least every few months. Many of them are what I would call "good faith" accidents. City, on the other hand, is area with significant fraction of pedestrian accidents. I remember a non-pedestrian fatality in the city area, it was a few years ago. Guy was seriously DUI, tried to enter highway at 100 MPH going normally 20 MPH curve, left a spectacular hole in a branch of a bank...
But if you say those endless roundabouts increase risk of car damage (total of 7 for round-trip), I do have to agree. Traffic lights would be better.
Quote from: kalvado on May 21, 2017, 08:46:57 AM
Quote from: Brandon on May 21, 2017, 07:14:48 AM
Quote from: kalvado on May 20, 2017, 06:50:03 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 20, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
All of which help where crashes and fatalities are most likely to happen: surface streets and two-lane rural roads. What's forgotten here, is that even with the high speeds, the freeway is the safest road there is.
safest per mile, or safest per trip?
my average round on surface streets is 2-3 miles, my daily highway dash is 20 miles one way.
If highway is 10x safer per mile, it makes it about as dangerous as surface street for me.
Not in the least. It means you're far more likely to be injured or killed at one of the intersections on the surface streets. Speed does not kill; intersections do.
Probably not. The very stretch of highway I am using has fairly regular fatal accidents - at least every few months. Many of them are what I would call "good faith" accidents. City, on the other hand, is area with significant fraction of pedestrian accidents. I remember a non-pedestrian fatality in the city area, it was a few years ago. Guy was seriously DUI, tried to enter highway at 100 MPH going normally 20 MPH curve, left a spectacular hole in a branch of a bank...
But if you say those endless roundabouts increase risk of car damage (total of 7 for round-trip), I do have to agree. Traffic lights would be better.
I think it's better as conflicts kill, not intersections. Roundabouts have less conflicts... Freeways have less conflicts.
The 100mph on any stretch of highway is a serious edgecase. You do take these into account, but you can't design for that. (Well, you can you want to pay for it)
Quote from: kalvado on May 20, 2017, 03:50:14 PM
Correlation does not imply causation.
So you and I agree that when the courthouse gangs, the police lobby, the anti-car nuts, and, most of all, the insurance lobby (which goes under the astroturfed name of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety) were DEAD WRONG when they spewed for nearly 20 years that "55 saves lives". In fact the slight decline in traffic mortality and morbidity in the mid-70s was mostly due to the amortization into the vehicle fleet of the first cars designed with much of any safety standards and the ageing out of the previous; and the near completion of the interstates (the safest type of road) and the accompanying elimination of much cross country travel on lesser routes.
Yet, fighting to keep 55 (and all that $$$$$$$$) they spewed more idiocy, predicting a "blood bath" and other nonsense. And, again, they were DEAD WRONG.
Perhaps we should stop listening to these people, and keep on raising the SLs, and thus saving more and more lives.
Quote from: SP Cook on May 21, 2017, 11:35:38 AM
Quote from: kalvado on May 20, 2017, 03:50:14 PM
Correlation does not imply causation.
So you and I agree that when the courthouse gangs, the police lobby, the anti-car nuts, and, most of all, the insurance lobby (which goes under the astroturfed name of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety) were DEAD WRONG when they spewed for nearly 20 years that "55 saves lives". In fact the slight decline in traffic mortality and morbidity in the mid-70s was mostly due to the amortization into the vehicle fleet of the first cars designed with much of any safety standards and the ageing out of the previous; and the near completion of the interstates (the safest type of road) and the accompanying elimination of much cross country travel on lesser routes.
Yet, fighting to keep 55 (and all that $$$$$$$$) they spewed more idiocy, predicting a "blood bath" and other nonsense. And, again, they were DEAD WRONG.
Perhaps we should stop listening to these people, and keep on raising the SLs, and thus saving more and more lives.
Experimentation on humans is naturally difficult. There is just no way to collect enough of high quality data to make clear cut conclusion until effect is very pronounced - like it is with alcohol impairment.
So far the best setup experiment I am aware of is a story of (Swedish?) king, who got a pair of twins sentenced to death as test subjects. Twins were held in adjacent cells, and one was forced to drink tea, and the other had to enjoy some coffee every day. Unfortunately, both test subjects lived longer than His Majesty, so he didn't get his answer..
So I am bringing up concept of acceptable risk - which is an envelope factor, which can be measured on on-going basis.
I do not pay attention to other drivers' speed. Honestly, I just think that most people assume they're going the speed limit but just don't bother to look at their speedometers. Plus, most people have been on the road maybe 15-20 years or more and have more experience, good or bad and just drive by how they feel the road and DGAF about what their speed is.
And since everyone else is sharing, here are my speed rules:
Roads <65mph limit: drive +5mph above limit, with few exceptions (I-84 west of Hartford is the main one)
Roads 65mph limit: drive at the limit, except if on a through-route across major regions, then its anywhere between +5 and +10 above limit.
Roads >65mph limit: drive at the limit
All parking lots: 10-15mph
Merging from on-ramp: merge at speed of traffic in give-way lane
Exiting to off-ramp: decelerate if necessary, if freeway-to-freeway connection match speed to design speed of ramp.
Downhills: allow vehicle to gain momentum so long as its safe to do so.
Am I the only one who just goes the speed that I feel is safest? I don't really spend a lot of time looking at my speedometer. On the rare occasion that Washington State Patrol or the BC RCMP is out doing radar, I never get stopped when surrounded by other cars who are also exceeding the limit. Just a few days ago, I passed a WSP officer doing radar. I was travelling 75 (in a 60). I've been stopped for doing less (71), but I wasn't stopped this time because everyone else around me was also exceeding the limit.
It would seem, then, that police watch for those who are travelling at a remarkably different speed than the cars around them, not necessarily someone exceeding the limit. Maybe police are different in other places (in that they randomly select a car to pull over).
Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2017, 11:41:07 PM
It would seem, then, that police watch for those who are travelling at a remarkably different speed than the cars around them, not necessarily someone exceeding the limit. Maybe police are different in other places (in that they randomly select a car to pull over).
No, you're pretty much spot on, its very much the same in the places I've been in the eastern part of the country.
The one thing that I have to be careful of that you may not have to is that my Mustang is a cop magnet. If they
did decide to single someone out in the middle of the pack its probably going to be me. It's not something that I overly worry about, I'm not going to slam on the brakes in the middle of the pack, but it is something that's in the back of my mind as I enter an area that I know has many good hiding places for a cop to run radar. I may drop out of the pack if they are going faster than the speed I feel is "safe" from the enforcement point of view.
My rules: These or whatever the flow of traffic is going
Neighborhoods, school zones, and non-freeway construction zones: Speed Limit
2 lanes: 5 over
4 lanes non-divided: 5 over
4 lanes divided: 6-7 over
Interstates/Freeways:
Construction Zones: 5-6 over
55mph: 65-70mph
65mph: 75mph
70mph 4 lane rural: 78mph
70mph 6 lane rural (ex: I-65 in KY): 80-82mph
Quote from: jakeroot on May 22, 2017, 11:41:07 PM
It would seem, then, that police watch for those who are travelling at a remarkably different speed than the cars around them, not necessarily someone exceeding the limit. Maybe police are different in other places (in that they randomly select a car to pull over).
No that's pretty much it, or they're looking for reckless driving and endangerment to fellow drivers. Long as you keep with traffic, no matter how fast they're going, you are good
Quote from: jakeroot on May 16, 2017, 02:01:31 PM
Quote from: In_Correct on May 16, 2017, 01:24:20 PM
The Ramps have different signs that give a speed. I assume it is the required speed to safely enter the ramp. I obey these signs. Honking at me for obeying these signs, and then tailgating me, ... only shows what an oversized impatient child you are.
Being predictable pretty much guarantees a degree of safety. If there's a curve with an advisory limit of 50, but everyone takes it at 60, you're going to confuse everyone behind you by taking it at 50, even if the sign advises you to do so (yellow signs are not required speeds, by the way). You might even get rear-ended by a driver who didn't expect you to slow for the curve.
Another thing: these advisory limits reflect the cornering abilities of 1950s Americana -- modern day cars can take curves much faster than older cars, yet just as safely. Have you ever taken a corner above the advised limit of the yellow sign? It's really not that bad. It might be why everyone is honking at you.
All things considered, after reading your post...you sound very timid. How long have you been driving?
Oh yeah, the advisory speeds for ramps are so much slower than what most cars are capable of. For example, there is an offramp that I get off of every day coming home from school that has an advisory speed of 50 MPH. But, I can easily take it at 70.
If there's a lane closure on an expressway/freeway two miles up the road from your location it doesn't make sense for everyone to jam into the open lane way ahead of time. Folks should be driving to the merge point and zippering into the open lane. This keeps traffic moving rather than everyone getting into the open lane miles ahead of the closure and then purposefully blocking anyone trying to merge closer to the merge point.
Quote from: upstatenyroads on June 01, 2017, 12:59:26 PM
If there's a lane closure on an expressway/freeway two miles up the road from your location it doesn't make sense for everyone to jam into the open lane way ahead of time. Folks should be driving to the merge point and zippering into the open lane. This keeps traffic moving rather than everyone getting into the open lane miles ahead of the closure and then purposefully blocking anyone trying to merge closer to the merge point.
Folks should zipper, period, regardless of where they merge in. The problem that happens around Chicago is that they'll all crowd up to the merge point, then refuse to zipper. They force their way in at very low speed. Traffic still backs up for miles.
I know I'm late to the thread, but for whatever it's worth....
In situations where it's safe to use cruise control, I'll generally set mine for (speed limit + 5) or 70, whichever is less, to start...and then tweak the speed up/down from there depending on traffic. (I don't normally get to drive highways posted above 70, and my car's fuel efficiency really plummets much above 70...so that's my starting upper bound.)
My goal is to drive in such a way that I minimize interactions with other vehicles. For a while, when I got my current car (my first with cruise control), I tried to be a good boy and stick with the speed limit...but I found that my speed-control thumb got less of a workout at my current standard.
I consider myself a "fast" driver, but When I drive I always pay full attention to the road, both hands on the wheel. Paying attention to the road while sailing down the interstate at 70-80 is more entertaining than any smartphone or other distraction. I believe it's okay to drive very fast as long as you take driving a car seriously and only do it when conditions allow.
On anything that isn't a freeway I tend to stay pretty close to the limit, whatever it is. However on freeways, I try to stick to these guidelines:
SL:55 My speed: 60-65 or faster in order keep up with the flow. Example road:I-17 in Phoenix.
SL: 65 My speed: 72-75 Example roads: Loop 101 and I-10 In the Phoenix area.
SL:75 My speed: 80-83 Example road: I-17 headed towards Phoenix from flagstaff.
SL:80+ My speed: 80-83, however the road is probably in the middle of nowhere with a low volume of traffic, and to be completely honest I'll probably have one or two short bursts of speed if the road happens to be wide open.
Mind you I always use cruise control whenever possible.
Sounds like the O.P. is just an incompetent driver, if not lacking confidence in their abilities.
Road Update:
I was in the passing lane of a Frontage Road, ready to enter the Interstate. A car was leaving the Interstate. After that car merged to the farthest right lane of the Frontage Road, I accelerated about 15 MPH over the limit while still on the Frontage Road, take the Slip Ramp, and entered the Interstate. Perhaps I should speed 20 MPH over the speed limit on the Frontage Road.
...
There was a road with no speed limit signs. I was probably speeding.
...
I was on a 4 lane divided road with no other traffic except for a car behind me. We were in the farthest right lane. They could have easily passed me but instead they tailgated. I went faster, and then they passed me. And then I slowed down so they could finish passing me. No traffic in the Passing Lane so I really think they should use it.
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on June 02, 2017, 12:39:06 AM
Paying attention to the road while sailing down the interstate at 70-80 is more entertaining than any smartphone or other distraction.
I don't know if you meant that literally, but if you are entertained by something on the highway, it can be just as much a distraction as anything else entertaining you might be doing.
Quote from: bzakharin on July 31, 2017, 11:16:14 AM
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on June 02, 2017, 12:39:06 AM
Paying attention to the road while sailing down the interstate at 70-80 is more entertaining than any smartphone or other distraction.
I don't know if you meant that literally, but if you are entertained by something on the highway, it can be just as much a distraction as anything else entertaining you might be doing.
I guess you're one of those people who do not like driving.
Quote from: vdeane on July 31, 2017, 12:58:59 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on July 31, 2017, 11:16:14 AM
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on June 02, 2017, 12:39:06 AM
Paying attention to the road while sailing down the interstate at 70-80 is more entertaining than any smartphone or other distraction.
I don't know if you meant that literally, but if you are entertained by something on the highway, it can be just as much a distraction as anything else entertaining you might be doing.
I guess you're one of those people who do not like driving.
I like driving, but the moment something becomes "interesting" (Button copy? State-named Interstate shields? something else?), especially if you're looking for it actively, it becomes a distraction just as much as any texting or whatever.
Quote from: bzakharin on July 31, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 31, 2017, 12:58:59 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on July 31, 2017, 11:16:14 AM
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on June 02, 2017, 12:39:06 AM
Paying attention to the road while sailing down the interstate at 70-80 is more entertaining than any smartphone or other distraction.
I don't know if you meant that literally, but if you are entertained by something on the highway, it can be just as much a distraction as anything else entertaining you might be doing.
I guess you're one of those people who do not like driving.
I like driving, but the moment something becomes "interesting" (Button copy? State-named Interstate shields? something else?), especially if you're looking for it actively, it becomes a distraction just as much as any texting or whatever.
I took bzakharin's post to refer to driving down the interstate itself at 70-80 mph, with normal attention to the road, to be inherently interesting. And how much mental energy does it take to note that a sign is button copy, anyways? Usually it's not something that you need to stare at the sign for long periods of time to notice.
My general rule of driving is that I use my cruise control and usually set my cruise to 5 over the speed limit. On the Interstate's in the state of Michigan I set my cruise for 80 mph and stick with that speed no matter what the speed limit is, in other states I set my cruise for 5 over the speed limit. In Chicago though I do 85 mph on the Interstates if there is no traffic. I usually blow around everyone coming from Indiana by taking the Skyway since I'm not afraid to pay the toll, it's 5 miles longer to take 80/94 and in Chicago you don't want to be adding on 5 miles to your trip.